The issue with Stroke of Midnight is its a good commander card so all us commander players go "oooohhhhh" and pick it.
@solipsist3D
Жыл бұрын
Exactly, it’s a better generous gift, amazing in commander
@lincolncarvalho8739
Жыл бұрын
@@solipsist3D Not necessarily better, it cannot destroy lands, which is relevant if your opponent's working a ton of mana off a Cabal's Coffers, controlling your best attacker with a Maze of Ith or screweing up your Zedruu deck with Homeward Path, among other shenanigans. Often the difference between a 1/1 and a 3/3 is not really worth giving up versatility in an EDH game.
@jinxed7915
Жыл бұрын
What i find interesting is how the blue/white archetype gets in its own way when it comes to payoffs. I had a deck that had a few of the set ups and payoffs for tapping things, but the problem is, once you've already tapped something, trying to tap it again or put a stun counter on it gives you nothing. If the payoffs were worded like "whenever you tap an untapped creature or put one or more stun counters..." then maybe the archetype would have had a real shot at working
@csimons
Жыл бұрын
I feel like the takeaway isn't necessarily that these cards individually are bad (some are) but that Blue and White are particularly weak. Some of the better cards in their colors are just going to be dragged down by the entire archetypes being bad. Every card on this list was Blue or White.
@IIxIxIv
Жыл бұрын
Hey black white is bad as well!
@trehenry413
Жыл бұрын
That isnt exactly true either tho. Blue/black faerie is a strong and well supported deck, and white is also great (R/W is one of the stronger decks on average). The main issue with these cards is that the archetype they were made for just didnt have enough support. So, when you have cards that only work in a specific archetype that isnt even that good to begin with, then those cards especially underperform.
@csimons
Жыл бұрын
@@trehenry413 I could have phrased it more specifically about the UW archetype in specific but I don't even think it's that inaccurate to say Blue and White are the weakest colors in the set. Going off the 17 Lands data for the set, and keeping Nizza's 55.3% average winrate in mind, Dimir faeries has a 54.0% winrate. The other blue-based color pairs are Simic (51.1%), Izzet (53.5%), and Azorious (50.0%). Below average across the board. Boros does have a 57.4%, the second highest in the set, but those white cards are very different, and the archetype is carried more by the strength of the red cards. There's only 13 white cards in the entire set with a Game Drawn win % of 55.3% or higher. There's 30 in red. Red, Green, and Black and head and shoulders above White and Blue in the set. The data shows it, and the fact this video covered 10 cards containing blue or white show it as well. White has some strong cards still, which show up in Boros, but is still notably weaker than the top 3.
@stuflames4769
Жыл бұрын
Dream Spoilers.
@jacobisaacs4160
Жыл бұрын
One was black but otherwise I would agree.
@kaiseremotion854
Жыл бұрын
I like that they are experimenting with new archetypal mechanics, it's sad UW and WB isn't working out well because now I fear they will be more cautious with experimenting....I'm sick of rakdos being "sacrifice" and izzet being "spell slinger" basically every set....
@stuflames4769
Жыл бұрын
Oh yeah. They need to branch out, or mix it up.
@DragonAttack515
Жыл бұрын
Yep
@Slayerlord13
Жыл бұрын
Heck, I'd even be cool with still seeing common archetype mechanics but in completely different colour pairs and with that pair's twist on it (like orzhov spell slinger and how that works differently from more common spell slinger colour combos)
@kaiseremotion854
Жыл бұрын
@@Slayerlord13 bring extort back but for noncreature spells
@kaiseremotion854
Жыл бұрын
@@Slayerlord13 I wonder how izzet creatures would work out. Like decent creatures that get backed up by izzets counterspells and tricks
@bobbyaustin7989
Жыл бұрын
would be cool to see card winrates compared to the winrates of their color(s) in general, since using the raw winrates here leaves us with analysis of only the weakest archetypes
@lcrperfect
Жыл бұрын
Not a single green card. Because green Win rate even lower than of those cards
@TauntedSymbol
Жыл бұрын
If a card like neva isn't good this format has a problem.
@altromonte15
Жыл бұрын
She just needs a critical mass of enchantments/bargains to work well, and its hard for that deck to come together
@TauntedSymbol
Жыл бұрын
@altromonte15 it's a gravedigger with two upsides, should be pretty good by herself
@peterd616
Жыл бұрын
I think it's the combination of this set being fast, but also having a lot of mana sinks (adventure creatures in particular) devalues the value you get from Neva
@myelinatedaxon9035
Жыл бұрын
She is great when you splash for it in green black. Her winrate is low because black white doesn't work as a deck. She is a great card by herself and totally worth a splash
@faerie7dragon
Жыл бұрын
Clearly, the real problem is that aggro is too strong, one look at Imodaine's Recruiter is all you need.
@jamesblanton6277
Жыл бұрын
Exactly. The set is not balanced and control sucks. Shame
@tomscud
Жыл бұрын
Nah, golgari midrange is the strongest deck because it can go big enough to bully the aggro decks and use food to keep from being burned out.
@OneHandDan
Жыл бұрын
Perhaps display the difference in winrate onscreen (like -3.5%). Love your content!
@doormatt72
Жыл бұрын
the only one i really disagree on is neva. i agree with the rest of the discussion about the orzhov archetype being bad, but she's great in black white good stuff as well. and i actually think black white good stuff is a strong deck in the format. i've trophied 5 of my 21 drafts, 3 of which were orzhov and abzan. all 3 of those trophy decks containing neva. i think her case is more that people are trying to build her around the bad archetype and not using her properly, not that she herself is a bad card.
@EntropicUsername
Жыл бұрын
One way to conceptualize Stroke of Midnight is similar to Witness Protection that can hit anything, and hitting anything is not enough of an upgrade over Witness Protection to justify two mana.
@54321eclipse12345
Жыл бұрын
I went 7-1 in high plat with a blue red spells deck that used Splashy Spellcaster. The fact that you get to enable bargain and immideatly replace the role means effectively your Torch the Towers are all Lightning Bolts. The role plays incredibly well on the Catapult to block against the spam rat decks, it puts your Alchemists out of Torch range and it shortens your flyer clock and ups your card quality to close out the game. It also gets a lot better the more instants you have as it tags a combat trick on your instants. I'd say you should play 1 in your u/r spells deck most of the time. As nobody else should pick it I'd pick it up 2nd or 3rd pack on the wheel.
@tmille171
Жыл бұрын
You might want to reconsider how you use and interpret the 17lands data in these lists in the future. Here is why: if we look at the actual win rate of these cards when drawn compared to the win rate of the decks they are played in, it turns out that Mocking Sprite has an IWD (Improvement When Drawn) of 2, and Merry Bards has a -2, meaning that your win rate goes DOWN when you draw Merry Bards, and UP when you draw Mocking Sprite. In other words, Mocking Sprite is better for blue decks than Merry Bards is good for red decks: does that really mean you shouldn't pick Sprite if you have a good enough blue shell, or merely that you shouldn't be playing heavy blue very often? Arguably, people should be picking Merry Bards slightly less often in favor of other cards for their red decks. (I didn't look up every card you talk about, but Splashy Spellcaster also has a similar IWD around 2.)
@tmille171
Жыл бұрын
I checked some more, and Curiosity has an IWD of almost 3, but on the other hand Dream Spoilers is the perfect example of a bad card in a good color, with an IWD of -2. That's the kind of card these lists should probably search for. Stroke of Midnight is one of the only other cards on the list with an appreciably negative IWD.
@NizzahonMagic
Жыл бұрын
IWD doesn't tell the whole story either though, because it only counts when you draw the card other than in your opening hand.
@tmille171
Жыл бұрын
Right, but you can also do the math yourself and compare win rate when maindecked and win rate when seen. For these cards it seemed to be within 0.1 or so of the IWD to me, but I didn't look too closely for many. Looking at IWD and/or that value and the overall win rate when seen seems like the best approach, because it adjusts a lot more for color balance, which this original list doesn't. This list actually has "decent" blue cards on it, compared to the win rate of blue overall.@@NizzahonMagic
@NizzahonMagic
Жыл бұрын
@abysscallstoabyss55 I have no clue what you're talking about. Contrary to what you might think I don't read every single comment on every single video. But whatever it is, I'm pretty sure you don't need to be a rude asshole about it.
@gregthewalnut603
Жыл бұрын
very cool to explain what data you're using and how you're interpreting it. Been watching since 2019 and your development from just the lists has been v fun to see. godspeed
@Ryokamen
Жыл бұрын
Be interesting to see the win rate on some of these rare/ mythic cards too I think. Numbers for those might be harder to produce though
@EBurstyn
Жыл бұрын
If you get a bunch of Princess Takes Flight then Stroke of Midnight could come in handy in a pinch if you didn’t get enough celebrants and bargain
@budrothefox3666
Жыл бұрын
I say it every single set release: wizards needs to test their sets more rigorously before release. There are so many blatant stupid decisions made for both limited and constructed play in every set. Neva should be a 3/3 menace with all the same text and scry 2 instead of 1. There are 1 mana instant speed cards killing 4 and 5 mana creatures these days its fucking stupid
@Surya-uj7re
Жыл бұрын
Even though I went 7-1 with a deck with 3 Mocking Sprites, that was more a result of by sheer luck having what was a pretty complete Faerie tribal deck in that draft.
@RibusPQR
Жыл бұрын
We hadn't seen Lorehold before either, and it was also underpowered. Maybe all new archetypes are aimed at a slightly lower power level, just in case.
@Kleemoor
Жыл бұрын
The format was fun for me for a time, but its starting to get boring cause aggro is so oppressive.
@stefanoderosa9506
Жыл бұрын
I haven't played it that much but I had quite a bit of success by playing midrange
@MordiggianMorddoth
Жыл бұрын
Chancellor of Tales is worth it if you get even a single copy off... but it's an X/3 which means it dies to basically every removal spell in the set. If it had four toughness, I think it would be playable... but maybe not even then judging by Splashy Spellcaster
@altromonte15
Жыл бұрын
Idk, i feel like it also suffers from a lot of adventures not being worth copying, for 4 mana. All of those 1 mana make a role token, 1 mana do 1 damage, two mana play a land or bounce a mv
@SomeGuy712x
Жыл бұрын
I ended up playing Splashy Spellcaster in a draft a couple weeks ago, and I think I put its role token on itself, because I missed seeing the word "other". And, no one else noticed this mistake either, so I had a 3/5 on the board that shouldn't have been like that. So, that's a "whoops" that just slipped past everyone present, and I didn't realize it until I watched this video now. (I don't think it had a major impact on the game anyway.)
@jamesblanton6277
Жыл бұрын
A lot of pro players played charmed clothier and merry bards in the recent tournament. Were they just filler that those players really didn't want? Just asking.
@dtelad11
Жыл бұрын
I was amused to see Stroke of Midnight. I have several copies of Mirage Afterlife that I use as bookmarks. The SoM token does not have flying, but still, giving your opponent 1/1s is rarely a good idea.
@gonzokules7794
Жыл бұрын
You can destroy your own stuff with SoM, eg cursed roles or the enchantment, that exiles till 3. Or fizzle opponents Burn/ removal, sometimes you can snipe an adventure card. Killing a 6/6 trample in exchange for a vanilla 1/1 is not bad btw.
@D3m0n7x
Жыл бұрын
Funny enough during the prerelease tournament at My lgsvi opened up a fairly decent amount of blue white tap cards along with Hilda. I went undefeated with the deck
@Redpoppy80
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, the only problem with UW is that the best cards for it are uncommon but more often rare and mythic (which are too good on their own, so they get taken long before the UW player in the pod), in combination with the commons being underpowered on their own. It was as if the "theory players" at WotC tried the deck and though it was way too busted, so they scaled the support back to balance but they over corrected in a big way.
@EBurstyn
Жыл бұрын
As long as I get one card off Curiosity and then they kill my evasive one mana 1/1 i feel ok
@pyroki9296
Жыл бұрын
These videos are fun to watch even if I don't really play draft. I'm familiar enough that I feel I wouldn't just suck if I ever tried thanks to these videos, so there's that. I will say that in commander, generous gift is a staple for white decks, so stroke of midnight would be strictly better since your opponent would get a smaller body. I'm actually building Mondrak and put that in figuring at worst I can target my indestructible commander and get 2 since I double my tokens, though that is a strange case where I'd prefer to have generous gift. I know this is for draft obviously and that card probably sucks there, but I see no reason it wouldn't see commander play at least since it's better than a staple that's already there.
@40kfanatics
Жыл бұрын
I started off in magic with absolutely 0 interest in draft, but I can HIGHLY recommend it it's now pretty much become my favourite way to play. Feels like the most even possible footing for a game of mtg and the deckbuilding/pick order meta just adds a whole other layer to the game that just isn't there as much in constructed formats
@Schlaym
Жыл бұрын
I don't know why but Wilds of Eldraine hates me. 1 win in three Arena drafts, constantly getting manaflooded toodespite scry, loot rtc.
@jeffreyweaver9854
Жыл бұрын
Stroke of Midnight may work out if you use it to exchange an unusable permanent that you own for another token that you can use.
@NizzahonMagic
Жыл бұрын
Nope.
@lambdalandis
Жыл бұрын
Gotta admit I was super wrong on Stroke of Midnight (although I don’t think I called you an idiot haha), bargain, the fact that enchantments were not really cards you wanted to remove most of the time, and how aggressive this format is really tanked this one
@aidanhood3666
Жыл бұрын
Icewrought sentry has played better than I thought it would but is still pretty mediocre
@YourAdHere4
Жыл бұрын
yeah that one has played as just a decent creature for me
@OneOfDisease
Жыл бұрын
Where are you getting the pick/win data?
@NizzahonMagic
Жыл бұрын
17lands, like th e video says.
@JB-ym3vj
Жыл бұрын
I think the main issue with this format is not specifically that you need to stop playing some of these cards (aside from Stroke of Midnight), but that you should stop trying to play certain colors. Red is so aggressive and oppressive that it forces entire archetypes to be unplayable. Even the good-stuff decks get run over by the aggressive celebration decks or the mono-removal RB decks
@assault410
Жыл бұрын
Commander players when a card similar to another card they use a lot isn't good in limited: 🤯🤯🤯
@Djengis1991
Жыл бұрын
07:23 I have done 4 drafts with the U/W tap deck on arena going 7-x three times and 6-3 once, I have to completely disagree and say that the tap deck is most certainly a thing. I tried to force it in my in person draft, but I didn't get the cards early enough and ended up in G/W with Though Cookie and Syr Ginger, went 3-1 in that draft. Anyhow, thanks for the video's, your dedication to getting all this content out in time for Pre-Releases and draft is much appreciated and they help me a lot. Edit: In my experince with the format, playing creatures matter so much, the two drops in all colours are good, you have to play them. You do not have time to play enchantments or other build cards, either you produce an attacker, a blocker, or you remove one. Any other action and you will be run over. Edit2: Upload more draft videos to youtube?
@eloidasarmi6815
Жыл бұрын
When I played a prerelease, the Chancellor of tales stomped me out of one match xd
@EndTheEnding
Жыл бұрын
I think the methodology used here is a bit flawed, notice that of the 10 cards, 8 are white or blue, the worst performing color pair, and the remaining 2 cards are in the second worst color pair. The stats of these cards are heavily tanked by these 2 color pairs, but that doesn’t necessarily translate into “stop playing this card” For example: Frostbridge Guard is actually 54.3% GIH WR in a boros deck, by comparison Frantic Fireball is only 52.0% in the same deck, so you should really pick the guard over fireball. Same thing for Mocking Sprite, it is 54.6% in a Izzet deck, even better than rares like Raging Battle Mouse (54.0%), and you should definitely pick it over Merry Bards (52.0%)
@JesGolbez
Жыл бұрын
Don't tell me what to do, Nizzahon!
@belhaddim5116
Жыл бұрын
Design team should focus on making a good format to incentivize more drafts, instead of their current model of faster format for faster re-entries.
@jaiclary8423
Жыл бұрын
Poor Splashy Spellcaster. I think you're being a little too hard on the card. Blue itself has a terrible winrate, and this is a particularly difficult card to draft around when so many blue instants/sorceries are bad, so the stats make it look worse than it is. I've had it do nothing but great things.
@michaelbugliosi735
Жыл бұрын
I've had a lot of success with blue and white simply because people are leaving a lot of value on a table after watching what the youtubers say about those colors in the set.
@fernandobanda5734
Жыл бұрын
You still need to open the payoffs which are all uncommon and higher, so it's a crapshoot either way.
@ESC2016
Жыл бұрын
It is a bit sad that some of these cards looks almost good, but not at all with a very aggressive metagame.
@alp2ccc138
Жыл бұрын
People tend to skip one thing about Stroke of Midnight. You don't have to give opponent a 1/1. Card is great with Princess takes flight, then Neva will call it back. But overall at the end of the day, you are correct about efficiency and feasibility.
@bricelory9534
Жыл бұрын
That is a fun interaction, but as you point out the set has just so much more efficient interaction with Princess Takes Flight that I don't think you should ever think of Stroke if Midnight's primary use as that. Not that I think you were saying that, mind you.
@fernandobanda5734
Жыл бұрын
Having to Stroke of Midnight your own Princess Takes Flight is cool in a pinch, but pretty awful when there are so many ways to get rid of your own enchantments for an upside bigger than a 1/1 for 2W.
@fernandobanda5734
Жыл бұрын
Surprised by Merry Bards. As mediocre creatures go, I'd take a one-card celebration enabler any day if I'm ever in red. Maybe people are playing it in the wrong decks?
@NizzahonMagic
Жыл бұрын
I mean, it's the baseline card here, not one of the 10. It's fine.
@fernandobanda5734
Жыл бұрын
@@NizzahonMagic Oh, my bad
@guyinthecorner0
Жыл бұрын
Wilds of Eldraine? More like, MILDS of Eldraine, amirite
@thevaultwalrus
Жыл бұрын
my most recent draft i got 5 Ratcatcher trainees
@foiltarmogoyf6203
Жыл бұрын
When will we have "Top Ten Beards"?
@OneOfDisease
Жыл бұрын
If merry bard came with a single plus 1 then added more it wouldn't be so bad.
@ecko2750
Жыл бұрын
Merry Bards is pretty good in RW.
@bundare
Жыл бұрын
What about Thunderous Debut that is a complete F and you gave bomb grade haha
@NizzahonMagic
Жыл бұрын
I talked about it in last week's video. It is more like a build around C. But yeah, I was way off
@bundare
Жыл бұрын
Ahh true, my bad, will give it a watch
@hitmangfx7162
Жыл бұрын
Chancellor of Tales and the Croaking Curse adventure side has been pretty reliable when I end up in any kind of blue. Green and red think they're curving out or dropping their high stat bombs, but then...*croak* *ribbit*. There's also the white adventure (destroy a tapped creature), but that one is harder to draft.
@ChromaToneMusic
Жыл бұрын
I just force Red ❤
@joshelderkin9592
Жыл бұрын
Am i the only one that thinks this formats kinda mids?
@TauntedSymbol
Жыл бұрын
Feels like playing a core set somehow
@ChromaToneMusic
Жыл бұрын
Yeap it's not balanced, roles are op for agro
@Maciej-m8q
Жыл бұрын
great, thank you :)
@jackiespaceman
Жыл бұрын
Aggro go brrrrrrrrrrrr
@torcuatothes
Жыл бұрын
literally all of the cards in the list are very playable?
@tulejumal
Жыл бұрын
Any card is "very playable". Pay mana and play it. These cards dont lead you to winning more when drawn in a game.
@torcuatothes
Жыл бұрын
@@tulejumal some of you guys need to stop logging into 17lands
@tulejumal
Жыл бұрын
@@torcuatothes what you said is: Some people need to use less science in their life. Better to blindly believe what i know to be true in MY heart and mind. Gratz.
@tmille171
Жыл бұрын
I don't think he means cards on the list are unplayable, merely that they should be picked later and played less often than the data is showing them to be. But, yes, I think his approach is flawed particularly with the blue cards, which are all good in good blue decks. Most blue decks are simply not great.
@fernandobanda5734
Жыл бұрын
Playable but overrated
@wildstyle3743
Жыл бұрын
Imho it's a shame that red color dominates limited since 10 years..so stupid game style/gameplay like.. how da fuck you do a lighting bolt that scry and exiles? (torch the tower).. or fuckin Imodane's recruiter.. idk wizard...
@missmeeper
Жыл бұрын
No.
@markbreen8393
Жыл бұрын
Just once I wish they made Orzhov decent in limited. They always price the mana for Orzhov stuff too high.
@NizzahonMagic
Жыл бұрын
Orzhov has been good in Limited in the recent past. Strixhaven, Phyrexia All Will be One, Neon Dynasty, Lord of the Rings are just the examples off the top of my head.
@Alexxf35
Жыл бұрын
First 🎉
@daben7145
Жыл бұрын
so more than 50% of the set is bad because its unter 55% WR, wonder how many disappoiting sets WotC is gonna release in a row, set like wilds of eldraine after the LTR joke is pretty insulting.
@michadomeracki5910
Жыл бұрын
I still think that Stroke of Midnight is cool. Great removal and 1/1 for opponent isn't a huge deal.
@Saffron-mb8mp
Жыл бұрын
If you play it on a 4/4, in terms of board presence, you have spent 3 mana and a card to put 3 -1/-1 counters on it. This format isn't slow enough for that kind of down-grade to matter
@mad_max21
Жыл бұрын
Quite clearly what you think is proven otherwise.
@michadomeracki5910
Жыл бұрын
@@mad_max21 It is very universal and 1/1 isn't a huge deal.
@michadomeracki5910
Жыл бұрын
@@Saffron-mb8mp But it is still very universal. Useful in many situations. Always find a usage.
@michadomeracki5910
Жыл бұрын
@@Saffron-mb8mp Also you got one point wrong. The new 1/1 token doesn't havy any abilities so if you kill as you said 4/4 with abilities you didn't put 3 -1/-1 counters, you destroyed the whole creature with abilities. It is a normal removal that can also kill bigger creatures and at the same time it is an artifact and enchantment and planeswalker removal in one card. 1/1 is worth nothing but 3 mana is a little too much, I can agree with that.
@WhatisAPaladin
Жыл бұрын
Meh its a meta list, sheep ain't gonna play these cards till a "pro or streamer" does something creative with them.. which is like 1% of the mtg community.
@memyself3510
Жыл бұрын
I don’t understand why they continuously put these new mechanics and themes in sets knowing that they’re not gonna work out. Almost every limited format for the past couple years ends up being dominated by aggro. It’s getting old
@kaiseremotion854
Жыл бұрын
I love seeing new mechanics and themes....
@memyself3510
Жыл бұрын
@@kaiseremotion854 but they rarely end up being good. The problem is that in the rare cases where they do end up being good, they tend to be completely dominant
@arthurvandenbergh1881
Жыл бұрын
Recent limited formats have been more about having a curve and gameplan rather than synergy. I agree a bit too much. You’ll get your odd build-around synergy card that works here and there (thinking about tanglespan lookout and hatching plans for WOE) but whole synergy decks rarely happen. But I think this is part of a good movement which is to make every creature do at least something and have there not be as many F’s. I hated M19 limited where it’s just vanilla creatures getting played. But I think they could maybe dial it back a liiiitle bit? Idk
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