I tried so hard to like Discovery. I forced myself to finish the first season; then watched 2 episodes of the second season and decided that I might hate myself but not enough to finish the series.
@dramaticwords
7 ай бұрын
I sat through 2 seasons -- the most upsetting and painful experience I've ever had with a TV show. Then the Picard series broke me. I'm done with Kurtzman-trek.
@roberthoward9500
7 ай бұрын
I watched all 4 seasons and I still don't know the names of all the senior staff.
@dramaticwords
7 ай бұрын
@@roberthoward9500 "Senior staff"? Like there's a chain of command?
@roberthoward9500
7 ай бұрын
@@dramaticwords Yes, a chain of command would be nice. Would also be nice if they acted like a professional crew. I have heard Star Trek get described as competency porn before, where everyone is just good at their jobs and are very professional, and I just never got that impression with Discovery.
@dramaticwords
7 ай бұрын
@@roberthoward9500 Competent, professional crew is something I love about TNG. They were people you could aspire to be.
@TherealWashtali
8 ай бұрын
I also like that Disco solved the Evil Admiral problem, and I was so expecting to see Rillak become a villain and am glad they didn't take the predictable route with her character
@DeathBYDesign666
8 ай бұрын
The fleet admiral is one of the best officers in the series actually, plus he's probably the only admiral to be an actual frequent reoccurring character, other than admiral Ross from DS9 of course. He has been one of the saving graces of the whole series in my opinion. I think the show got a good boost in the right direction when they went into the future, we need more of this future to be used in future trek shows. They have done the 22nd through 25th centuries to death and it really needed the new timeline.
@thurin84
7 ай бұрын
star trek continues solved the badmiral problem.
@InMyGetawaycar1313
8 ай бұрын
My biggest beef with Disco is that Michael gets away with everything without any real consequences. She abuses the grace she has been given over and over again without learning a lesson or to respect those in authority in her line of command.
@dellytancyl524
8 ай бұрын
do you also hate those things in Kirk because Kirk and Burnham are very, very similar to each other - they are both over bearing, swashbuckling, with little regards for authority savior types, except one is an over dramatic misogynic bastard and the other is a martyr. the original Kirk would have been at home in Burnham's shoes and vice versa. I feel the same way about Kirk that I feel about Burnham, they are both of them what their ships needed for the moment.
@Trelane574
8 ай бұрын
@@dellytancyl524 For the record, I've actually said good things about Burnham. For the most part she's just meh. In very early Season 3 I thought she was watchable. She was in an interesting environment surrounded by a number of colorful characters (including Booker), which I think made her acting less flat and more personable than it was earlier. It was a nice break from the X-Files atmosphere.
@dramaticwords
7 ай бұрын
@@dellytancyl524 Kirk and Burnham are nothing alike. Kirk worked his way through the Academy and up the ranks. Burnham got her rank through nepotism. Kirk had a keen sense of duty. Michael never heard an order she felt inclined to follow. Kirk may have had brief romances, but he never shacked up with a girlfriend on the ship, or made her part of his crew, let alone shagged a crewmember while his captain was being tortured down the hall. He would never have been best friends with the galaxy's biggest racist.
@dellytancyl524
7 ай бұрын
@@dramaticwords LOL! you felt better after typing all that? LOL! oh man, what is wrong with us? you and I remember Kirk very differently.
@dramaticwords
7 ай бұрын
@@dellytancyl524 I suggest you rewatch TOS.
@nonnobis2232
8 ай бұрын
It's not hating it, it's just not loving it.
@tumojitekatotumojitekato423
5 ай бұрын
or watching it.
@KikoNYC
8 ай бұрын
With all it faults, I enjoyed it! The worst for me was a season long story, the whisperings, and too much crying.
@alfiourso4587
8 ай бұрын
I don’t hate it, but I just can’t connect with it. I’ve watched it several times but still feel the same. S1 was only worth watching for the performances of Jason Isaacs as Lorca, whilst S2 introduced us to Anson Mount. If, after 4 seasons, I can’t name the whole bridge crew there was no hope. And let’s not talk about ‘The Burn’. Please, that was painful.😣 Sorry
@Oniphire
8 ай бұрын
As much as I disliked the first season I wanted to get back into Disco just for the chance to see what the future of the galaxy looked like. Then their big reveal about the cause of the Burn turned out to be...idiotic. I was immediately done. Nothing could bring me back to Disco.
@scoutiii8893
8 ай бұрын
@@Oniphire I mean yeah... It was awful. I couldn't even get thru that season.
@Trelane574
8 ай бұрын
Lorca was more punchable than most TNG admirals.
@Scandic45
8 ай бұрын
I agree, I remember face palming on the reveal of what the burn was. Having a story that needs to be completely finished by each season's end shoots them in the foot. I don't hate discovery i dislike some aspects of the series and some i do enjoy. Booker is pretty damn great
@alfiourso4587
8 ай бұрын
@@Scandic45 I feel the same about these complete season storylines. It’s the same with ST Picard. You just switch off. If they had arcs that lasted 3 episodes max then they would be ok. However, I feel both Disco and Picard were let down by the storylines, often too complicated, or just bits added for nostalgia. The last season of Picard was basically that every episode. “Ooh look, it’s the NX-01. Look it’s some old character, Hey, there’s a tribble or Kirk’s body”. Seriously, it was lazy writing. And Geordie basically having the Ent-D like it was an old hotrod you’d have in your garage to work on every Sunday was a bit too far fetched. I’m glad that we have SNW and LD. I can watch them with the whole family and we enjoy them together. But disco and Picard are just too much of a miss for us.
@STEPHENDANERD
8 ай бұрын
Well if you're going to try that, I'll go ahead and give: 10 Reasons to **Keep** hating Discovery 1. Zero character development. I watched all of Disc and gun to my head, I could not name anyone other than Seru or Burnham, the rest of the bridge crew are just *there* with barely a mention. (Not counting temporary characters like Lorka, Pike and Georgio) Seru evolves into a **predator species** oh such dramatic change, he's going to be so aggr- what do you mean he just says once "I must control my emotions" and goes back to being passive. 2. Absurd plotlines. There is an episode which boils down to a Kid got sad, made the force cry and wiped out half of all life in the universe. 3. Crytrek. Star Trek in the past has very rarely shown people crying, (done it's fair share of making the viewers cry though) Discovery makes up for all of that missed crying and even more for good measure. Which'd be fine if it was thematic emotional drama... except with point 1, I don't care about the characters. There's meant to be this emotional scene where a fully sentient robot (Sorry Data, you weren't first apparently) is resisting a hostile hack and goes for the self-sacrifice move(with a really drawn out last moment speech deal), but she gets all of 3 lines the whole season and they're in this 1 episode, and because they know we won't care, they throw flashbacks to her "friendship" just to really try and make it impactful when it isn't. 4. The Timeline. To put it mildly, Discovery causes an absolute mess, trying to shunt itself into a timeline, with no respect for said timeline, which is why it runs away a thousand years into the future. 5. The Good Die Early. The exception to point 1 - characters that defy the formula and become interesting, must be killed off/removed, I won't specify for spoiler reasons, but you can probably tell if you start to like a character they're not going to be there for very long, which is really annoying. 6. The "Example" episode. When introducing your friends to a show you sometimes try an "example" episode to give them an idea what the show is like and it is one of the best the show has... for Discovery the best I can do is the episode where it's crashed shuttle with a bunch of academy students, because holy s*** they actually have character development, in 1 episode, the rest of the main cast haven't got that in 4 seasons! 7. The "So close" factor. There's enough talent, tech, story that could make something that works... but it just doesn't. It's frustrating. 8. Section 31. S31 started as this fantastic explanation to the glaring flaw in the federation, nuanced, making the hard choices to do good for the federation, from the shadows. And Discovery puts them on parade with special black badges and ships, while shoehorning them as the bad guys, probably because writing S31 properly takes effort. 9. Universal threats. Traditional trek, the threats are usually immediately for the crew but some do occasionally threaten all of Star Fleet. But with Discovery, every other problem is going to blow up the Universe, to the extent when you hear "This threatens..." you're already sitting there, rolling your eyes, saying it in time with the show "the whole universe" 10. Now I could just say "Klingons." but let's go with - The Spore Drive. There are so many things wrong with this device, and it's one of the main things about Discovery. Apparently no one else, in over a thousand years, has ever stumbled upon this empire making technology. The terran empire built 1 ship to use it as a power source, then just, forgot about it. Do they use it to map out the entire galaxy in a matter of days? Instantly setup colony worlds? Bring rare materials back? No, they just use it like a faster than normal warp drive for most of the series, begging the question - why did they even introduce this? Scotty, Geordie, O'Brian, Bellana, Trip and Hemmer didn't need a special engine to be interesting. And sure, my response to the points of the video 10. Ok, it was first, that's not really a reason. 9. Nonsense. Yeah, woo, they got some props right - but there's the bigger issue of nearly everything else timeline wise. And you're cheating to fit more points in, graphics might have a lot of work, that does not mean a positive outcome. Some people say it's "dark mode" trek, but it's dark mode with harsh neon lights and lens flares blinding you most of the time. 8. ... I really question the sanity of people that still cling to "Gene's vision", most agree his vision ended with DS9 and it was for the best. 7. "Here's a point for discovery - it made something far better in SNW" ... ok, that's like saying star wars episode 2 gave us the animated clone wars series 6. Yeah, it had to run away before it did yet even more damage to the timeline it was in, now it's free to make up nonsense plotlines. 5. I'm baffled by this one. Clutching at straws with a copy-paste politician. 4. I never understood "Badmiral", there are a, quite frankly disturbing, number of admirals in Star Fleet that we've seen and a small number have been "bad" usually with a reason. Very few of which actually act like Admirals, you have to look to The Orville for proper admirals. 3. It has big actors because they were desperate to make it work and paid well, it won't be the first or last time great actors were stained with working on something terrible. 2. Great character, unique locomotion, interesting alien design, still no character development, he goes through vor... thing, becomes predator, few episodes later - "Nah bruh" 1. Something we don't know about as a reason... I mean, they finally understand good trek, with SNW and Picard's S3 so I do expect them to finally do a season right but it won't retroactively fix the rest of it.
@STEPHENDANERD
8 ай бұрын
Just to throw some additional points in (because youtube does not like editing comments with new line breaks in them) My favourite recurring character from Discovery is actually the Doctor, and no, I still don't know his name. I do think this is mostly because of dialogue, while about 5% of the spoken words are "Commander Burnham" (I wish I was exaggerating) most dialogue between other characters rarely involves their names. And I did appreciate how they did "They/them" it makes perfect sense for a symbiote host to identify as such. Then, the elephant in the room, *sigh* Burnham. Is a Mary Sue. "Oh she's half vulcan so she's stronger and smarter than humans." So was Spock, Spock could not beat up multiple actual Vulcans in a fist fight, even with "Training in vulcan martial arts" Or be a better space jumper than a professional with years of jumps under their belt, with reading a manual one hour beforehand. Now her always being the source of all answers is harder to argue, with noone having character development, I don't know if the other bridge crew were capable of providing answers. Maybe they're all bottom of the barrel marginal passes - on this highly top secret prototype vessel. Oh, wait.
@nodiggity9472
5 ай бұрын
@@STEPHENDANERD You don't deserve good TV.
@STEPHENDANERD
5 ай бұрын
@@nodiggity9472 Always amusing to see comments like these, can you dispute the facts? Provide evidence to the contrary? No, just try to insult me. Although I suppose if your standards are so low to consider Discovery "good TV" I shouldn't be surprised when that's all you can manage. Now back to actually "great TV" with SNW and another imbecile on ignore.
@Grimmiges_Ranarrkraut
5 ай бұрын
@@STEPHENDANERD honestly at some points it physicaly hurt me to watch and listen some of the BS on that series. The point with that artificial thing - it was just plain annoying how they tried to make one care. Even worse, the speech in the beginning of the next one. Everytime Commander Michael Burnout is mentioned I just wanna punch my screen. Honestly gave up on Trek but luckily LD is quite fun. It just shows it is possible to have a modern Star Trek with different setting
@ExarchGaming
5 ай бұрын
the damage it does to the future of trek's vision and the damage it does in the past by wrecking decades of world building and lore is just...tragic. the whole "burn" plot is absolute fucking garbage. It's like whoever did the main writing for the plot binged game of thrones and breaking bad and went "snaps fingers* this is exactly what trek needs"" They take this beautiful vision of the future, where all of humanity has united under a common goal; and decide... nah lets make it GRIMDARK! It puts a finite lifetime on star trek by capping it off in the 3000s by having something that is a mix of the ending of Mass effect 3, and the birth of slanaash/dark age of technology.
@cdnnorsedogdad5119
8 ай бұрын
I just notice that they turned the Golden Gate Bridge into a Solar Array. It's a beautiful bridge an a height of Engineering when it was built. But by the Star Trek Future, it's not really needed for Transportation. But it is a beautiful Landmark bridge and there is not good reason to tear it down. Turning it's length into a Solar Array works for me and give this beautiful landmark a new life in the future. When you can walk to a Transporter in any area and tell it where I want to go, stand on it and be in that other place on earth instantly, why do I need old school roads? But Historic Landmarks need to be kept and remembered. I love it.
@Shuttlebay4
8 ай бұрын
I've struggled to love Disco, it's not given me the Star Trek vibe I get from other series. But I don't like hating on it and some aspects I really enjoy What really frustrates me is that it feels like the talent is there, all the elements for great 'Trek is there, maybe it just lacked cohesive creative direction or had too much studio interference. But it gave us Pike, which led to SNW. I love Tilly and, I love Jett Reno.
@VolkXue
8 ай бұрын
maybe they were planning multiple series and this was one to draw in a new fanbase and it wasnt made exactly for you. Maybe thats one of the problems in our community as fans. We dont let anything grow because it doesnt fit our amateur ideas of what something should be for us.
@Watcher1134
8 ай бұрын
TBH there is an over 10 minute video of Jett Reno being "the best crewmember"
@theonlyjacknicole
8 ай бұрын
Thank you for the candor; much appreciated.
@skiptoloo9506
8 ай бұрын
No, TOS gave us Pike.
@Trelane574
8 ай бұрын
@@Watcher1134 Reno barely got to do anything. Her best moment was when she and Booker outmaneuvered Tarka with an assist from Drudge. (For some reason Tarka STILL isn't even mentioned in her Memory Alpha article.)
@cesarnieves6884
8 ай бұрын
I still want to know how the Fing Warp Plasma gets into the warp coils on the detachable nacelles?
@dellytancyl524
8 ай бұрын
it doesn't there is now warp plasma, the nacelles run on programable matter.
@danielland3767
8 ай бұрын
The detachable nacelles are about the coolest technology ever, I can care less about the looks and characters but the technology is wild cool
@cesarnieves6884
7 ай бұрын
@dellytancyl524 programable matter is to make stuff, not to run stuff. If that was the case there would be no necessity for dilithium.
@dramaticwords
7 ай бұрын
It's nonsense, written by people with no interest in science.
@thurin84
7 ай бұрын
[waves hands] magic!
@Kleineganz
8 ай бұрын
I've always liked Discovery. Even the new take on Klingons didn't bother me. It's been a fun ride and I'm looking forward to the final season.
@generalsci3831
8 ай бұрын
I feel like I'm in the minority for really enjoying Disco from the start. Thank you for this list. :)
@Revan92097
8 ай бұрын
I feel the same way I have absolutley love the series from the very beginning and have my own headcannon as to how other peoples arguments say disco broke canon in the first season
@theonlyjacknicole
8 ай бұрын
You are not in the minority; the "others" make you feel like it. I am with you in enjoying Discovery from the start.
@dellytancyl524
8 ай бұрын
you're not, more of love love Discovery than the very vocal minority would have us believe.
@LePedant
7 ай бұрын
Disco's success is why they made Picard, Lower Decks, Strange New Worlds, Prodigy, and now Section 31. The very vocal minority is why Disco fans feel this way.
@Donnagata1409
5 ай бұрын
I enjoyed it too from the start.
@theaychgee
8 ай бұрын
If Riker shows up on a holodeck we riot.... lol
@chrispannell9419
8 ай бұрын
"computer delete Barclay Alt-history fan fiction #13" Riker walks out of holodeck.... roll credits- the end ;)
@rafaeldasilva6247
8 ай бұрын
One day I saw an interview with one of the creators, and they've explained their creative process more or less as "how does this affects Michael? Does this moves her story forward?" That's the moment where it clicked for me. It is intentional. They do it on purpose. She IS the centre of the universe. Ok, you do you. Glad we clarified that. Wish I knew since season 1, though, would've saved me time. But thanks for Pike and Spock!
@ScoobySnacksYum
8 ай бұрын
It's not that Michael is the center of the universe as much as the series is her story and was always meant to be about an orphan's journey, which is a classic story in literature.
@scoutiii8893
8 ай бұрын
@@ScoobySnacksYum Please stop trying to justify the poor writing and awful character arc for Burnham. The story is following her, it's narcissistically obsessed with her. The story bends for her. If she's wrong, the story is changed so that she was right all along. That's not literature, that's Mary Sue fan fiction.
@rafaeldasilva6247
8 ай бұрын
@@ScoobySnacksYum, hi to you too! I'm afraid you missed the point of the joke - I meant that they should've been upfront about it being that character's show instead of an ensemble cast. That's what I was expecting when I started, since every Trek was an ensemble up to that point. Also, even for a personal show I think the writing could've been significantly better. She feels like a self-insert, all important character, like if Wesley Crusher (with my respects to Will Weathon) got a soap opera spin-off.
@ScoobySnacksYum
8 ай бұрын
@@scoutiii8893 Discovery has always been primarily Burnham tale regardless of whether the writing sucked. There's no narcissism in the character of Michael any more than there was in Kirk. When you watched Picard, didn't you expect the story to center on Jean Luc Picard?
@Yibambe.
3 ай бұрын
Um, were you good with Kirk and Picard being the center of the universe of those shows? Sure you were. How is Michael different from them (no worries, it's a rhetorical question)?
@charlesbailey7839
8 ай бұрын
My issue with Discovery are the characters, the dialogue and the Klingons, aside from Saru and Culber I find the others to be boring, the characters, particularly Burnham have the habit of whispering their lines, and I'm sorry the Klingon makeup was so far off
@adrianbruce2963
7 ай бұрын
Sound is poor - though it's hardly the only series to be that.
@NeonVisual
8 ай бұрын
It failed in it's mandate to be game of thrones in space, then soft rebooted so far into the future that everything is magic, and then it stopped being science fiction and instead became action fantasy. Star Trek isn't action fantasy, and no amount of shoehorning these continual rewriting of the source material and trying to pass it off as rebooting while still refusing to even admit it's a reboot ever changed anything. I can't remember when I stopped watching it, but there was a whole season I just couldn't be bothered to finish and then never bothered watching it again. In any normal situation this would have been cancelled long ago. Some say it's viewership isn't even in 6 figures.
@ScoobySnacksYum
8 ай бұрын
Discovery never had a mandate to be Game of Thrones in space. LOL. The show is Star Trek. Discovery was always marketed as the story of Michael Burnham and follows the classic orphan's tale seen in Charles Dickens' works.
@scoutiii8893
8 ай бұрын
@@ScoobySnacksYum Wrong. Go look up early interviews with Alex Kurtzman when he was Les Moonves' "yes man." Les Moonves said he wanted GoT in space and Kurtzman echoed it in all the press clips & interviews. In fact, there was even a scene or two from s1's mirror episodes that copied scenes from GoT. Then, Moonves was out, fans rejected the first half of s1, they went on hiatus for 3-5 months while reshoots and retooling happened and suddenly, it was no longer GoT in space! Now Kurtzman backtracked and called it was a "platform for social issues..." (Kurtzman said this during an early star trek day video.) He also jettisoned the show 930 years in the future because he couldn't take all the fans saying how disconnected the show was from what Star Trek was supposed to be... so he ran off w his tail between his legs and moved the show out of any and all canon. That's how it actually went down.
@NeonVisual
8 ай бұрын
@@ScoobySnacksYum This was literally the case, it's why Fuller was forced out when he refused Lez Moonves's demands to do so.
@johnchedsey1306
8 ай бұрын
If you think Star Trek is/isn't "action fantasy", you've probably entirely missed the point. It is and always has been about the characters. Disco rightfully can be a bit criticized for being a tad Burnham heavy and ignoring some of the ensemble, but I just find your assessment to be off base, especially the with the "some say" assertion. Who is actually saying this? Many people? With tears in their eyes?
@Shanghaimartin
8 ай бұрын
Yeah, I also had the complaint that they might as well be using magic at this point now due to the 'tech' that far ahead. Personal teleporters and programmable matter to make anything appear out of thin air.... nahhh... a step too far !!
@davidleblev
8 ай бұрын
I knew three things about Discovery before the premier: Sonequa Martin-Green was the lead; her character wasn’t the captain; she would likely be captain by series end. Interesting, possibly “fascinating”. Then the very first scene gives us Michelle Yeoh as captain (“More of that, please”, I says), but the credits list her as ‘Special Guest Star’. Nope. Strike one. Then: the jewel-toned Klingons, the round-robin command, and the needlessly dense (to my mind, muddled) plotting that made it seem as if an incredible cast was swimming in Jell-o. It has improved a lot, but I’m really not going to miss it.
@alfiourso4587
8 ай бұрын
Did anyone else play Discovery bingo? - Is there going to be some crying and hugs this episode? - Will Burnham talk at 150mph that you can’t understand the solution to a problem? - Is Tilly gonna be annoying and interrupt a superior officer this episode? - Will Saru spout some wisdom to an officer today? - Will there be a change to cannon? - Is there a social issue they have to tackle this episode? You get the picture. I do feel that, whilst there are gems within the series, they are few and far between, and maybe my expectations were too high for, what was, the flagship series to the franchise. I enjoyed some of the performances, but apart from Saru, they are mostly from none of the ensembled cast. I hope it gets a strong send off, but I don’t think I’ll be rewatching it like I do with all the other series (Picard not included)
@AzraelThanatos
7 ай бұрын
A lot of those come under one of my major issues with it, that the characters don't seem to have the discipline and decorum that the old series kept all of the Star Fleet officers to. With Lower Decks, its a comedy series that runs on that tone combined with the majority of the crew being oddballs and screwups which is why we like them. Picard S1 wasn't a starfleet ship or crew and when in the Fleet for season 2 and 3, the characters acted as they should...
@hallnall1667
8 ай бұрын
I the fact of pushing for something new. Leonard Nimoy said himself that he wanted the fans to move forward an honest chance. I don't want another prequel, reboot or legacy characters. Many of the things we like most about Star Trek wasn't even Gene's ideas, so why are we spending so much of our time trying to wonder what he might think.
@mattchase8291
8 ай бұрын
I haven't loved everything Disco has done, but I have loved the show overall. Mostly because it's so full of heart & it's earnest and genuine.
8 ай бұрын
I have no hate for discovery, and love all the characters and the actors that portray them. The thing that keeps me from loving it is mainly the focus on Burnham. Not that Burnham is a bad character, and Sonequa is an amazing actor, but she was too heavily the focus on the show. Add to that that the stakes had to be galaxy level every season, and I had trouble really enjoying it. That said, the last season gave more focus to other characters, so I'm starting to warm up. The ensemble part of trek is quite important to me.
@oladeji15
7 ай бұрын
Very fair points!!!
@erichmuller3578
7 ай бұрын
This is downright ridiculous. No one will miss it in 10 years. It will be forgotten by then.
@mikeg7818
8 ай бұрын
Had goose bumps when the Enterprise came onto the Screen
@GSBarlev
8 ай бұрын
My rational brain was bemoaning that _Discovery_ was leaning more heavily on nostalgia, but every other part of my brain was releasing _all the happy neurotransmitters._
@rafaelsays175
8 ай бұрын
I watched the first couple of episodes again the other day and I realised if the producers said it was set in an alternate universe I could have enjoyed it more when it first came out.
@countluke2334
8 ай бұрын
Yes, it's just not Star Trek, neither look nor feel.
@dramaticwords
7 ай бұрын
It is an alternate universe. They just don't want to say it out loud because they want fans to think it's Star Trek.
@modgeosys
8 ай бұрын
As an original TOS fan from the 70s, I've always loved Discovery. Yes, it starts out *seemingly* dark, but that's only to test the idealism in a more realistic setting. *Any idealism that can't withstand scrutiny and challenge isn't worth believing in.* There are a few minor things I would've done differently had I been making the show, but overall, the characters are deep and relatable, and the dialogue is absolutely fantastic!
@JoshBeardyHarris
8 ай бұрын
This! 1000% this!
@Mad-Bassist
8 ай бұрын
I think the show is the perfect reflection of the times: now we can get away with much more on television, long-form storytelling isn't just the domain of soap operas, and boy do we have the power to do stunning visual effects. Like Penn Jillette likes to say, "We're living in the best times!"
@ValhallaDoom
8 ай бұрын
@@Mad-Bassist Star Trek used to be an escape from the current times- an escape from all the gender nonsense and constant whining and victim mentality- now they’re crying, whispering and generally struggling and it’s horrible to witness.
@modgeosys
8 ай бұрын
@@ValhallaDoom TOS was all about compassion, as well as courage and empowerment. On the surface, it was escapism, mainly to duck the censors of the day. But if you look underneath, it was always WAY more. Granted, sometimes Discovery goes overboard with the drama during the heat of battle,. But most of the time, there's nothing wrong with having, recognizing, and valuing feelings, and those who don't are usually less effective at both leadership and teamwork. Compassion is not a weakness.
@ValhallaDoom
8 ай бұрын
Yet they managed to alienate the majority of the fan base under the banner ‘this isn’t star trek’. It’s about pushing ideology.
@OrphanGrei
8 ай бұрын
Oh Sean! Don’t d you remember, Admiral Forrest. From Star Trek Enterprise?
@claytonberg721
8 ай бұрын
Nechayev wasn't a bad admiral either.
@tc539
7 ай бұрын
yeah she was she sucked@@claytonberg721
@Yibambe.
3 ай бұрын
And, excuse me, but Admiral Cornwell? She was a hero from start to finish.
@Elkott
8 ай бұрын
I gave it a chance and found the concept of The Burn to be genuinely interesting but they had to screw it up with the single most stupidest cause I've ever seen
@archmage_of_the_aether
8 ай бұрын
Twauma!
@JohnnyWednesday
8 ай бұрын
It was so annoying - it's like the end of the Rama series when you find out that god did it. WTF?
@GSBarlev
8 ай бұрын
I just finished my re-watch of S03, and honestly my experience of the Su'kal thread was a lot better this time around-detached from all the mystery, I got to plug into the character moments (and the bits of science babble) that made the revelation feel _super satisfying_ to me. At the end of the day, even if this is the era of streaming and re-watching, a story fails if it fails to land on first run, and that describes "Su'kal" really well. But hey, we had Osyraa's twist and that climactic showdown, which was incredible both times around.
@JaimeWulf
8 ай бұрын
I've enjoyed it all! And I am an original fan of the first airings of ST: TOS... Yes, I just dated myself...
@tlouiseallen9302
8 ай бұрын
Same 👵😜
@Yibambe.
3 ай бұрын
Same. And as a 12-year-old girl at the time, it really hurt to see the Roddenberry-written "Turnabout Intruder," which made the case that women were too emotionally unstable to be starship captains. This message from a show I loved was painful. I actually remember wishing I was a boy because then I'd be good enough to be a starship captain. Watching Burnham, both versions of Georgiou, Cornwell, the awesome Owo-Detmer team, Nhan, Reno and the other strong female characters has been healing.
@Vanamonde96
3 ай бұрын
@@Yibambe.What about Killy from the mirror universe I loved her and how emperor from the mirror universe changed over time and was played by Michelle Yeoh and she had a good ending
@kevenntsmith
8 ай бұрын
I've loved DISCO from the beginning and still do. It's the Star Trek that I watch with my mom, who loves it as well, when she comes to visit, and I'm always going to have that association with the show and cherish it extra because of that.
@danielland3767
8 ай бұрын
That was TNG to me & looking at the TV interviews back then people didn't like TNG either
@kevenntsmith
8 ай бұрын
@@danielland3767 - With some people it takes them longer to come around and realize what we got. I always love encountering others' stories where they bond with their moms over Star Trek, coz you know those are AWESOME moms!
@ZombieZebra3
8 ай бұрын
I like parts of Discovery. Like I’ll always be grateful it gave us Anson Mount as Christopher Pike, and Ethan Peck as young Spock, and Michelle Yeoh in a Section 31 movie.
@alejandronopasanada5302
8 ай бұрын
I think you hit the nail on the head with that.
@NeonVisual
8 ай бұрын
Except this isn't what section 31 is.
@ZombieZebra3
8 ай бұрын
@@NeonVisual I really don’t care. More Michelle Yeoh = More Good
@IronheartvsMiles
8 ай бұрын
Anson Mount and Ethan Peck are boring
@willh5847
8 ай бұрын
Reaching with this one, big time. Still seems like this channel really does dismiss the reasons a lot of Trekkies can't stand Discovery. There's plenty I could list here, but there's a quote that Todd Stashwich recently brought up on how, at its best, Star Trek doesn't tell the viewer what to think, just asks that they think. For me this core concept was the opposite in Discovery. I never felt like it was trying to get viewers to think about anything from a different point of view. Just telling them what they needed to think. That is when it wasn't going from one convoluted plot point to the next. For me, though, it's a show I could have just ignored if it weren't for the time jump. The fact that they went and decided to set nearly a millennia of history and leave fans with such a bleak outcome is something I can only hope that future show-runners figure out how to retcon. It gave us SNW, though, so I'll give it points for that.
@scoutiii8893
8 ай бұрын
I also believe the showrunners think their audience is stupid and that's why they never take any meaningful chances with ideas or questions (as you said) Older Trek thought the audience was intelligent... As a viewer you felt that in the ways the stories and characters played out. With Discovery and all Kurtzman Trek, it always feels like they're so insecure so there is no meaning. Everything is empty.
@z3rah.just.for.vi3wing
6 ай бұрын
I sure couldn't predict everything that was going to happen. Plus it takes into account a lot of sides.. A good example is Ash Tyler being Voq. Part human and part Klingon. It made me think more about both sides rather than saying "Klingon bad, Human good" That's just one example. I found myself really rooting for characters as well, I knew what I wanted them to do, but it made me think of what they were actually going to do. I don't know maybe I'm just not that intelligent though.
@cptkirk1978
6 ай бұрын
well, what would you call Data? Data had to constantly dumb down the technobabble. its ok at least you gave a well though out reason WHY you didnt like it
@SA80TAGE
5 ай бұрын
"Older Trek thought the audience was intelligent" - if that were true they wouldn't have given captains log exposition dumps every 10 minutes to spell it out in crayons for their "intelligent" audience what was happening and what to think. That's why Discovery feels different because there are hardly any captains logs, and why you all think you're smarter for disliking it.... you can't actually conceptualise any meaningful thoughts about any given situation without the captain literally spelling it out for you first in layman's terms.
@cptkirk1978
5 ай бұрын
@@SA80TAGE not only that but it was up to Spock to explain the “technobabble”. The same with Data in TNG and Jadzia(I guess ) in DS9 so there’s that I guess
@BaldAndCurious
8 ай бұрын
ME: Who's hating on Disco?! Tell me! what's there to hate? EVERYONE: the Klingons ME: fair enough.
@JohnnyWednesday
8 ай бұрын
I could never forgive them for the death of my boy.
@BaldAndCurious
8 ай бұрын
@@JohnnyWednesday You mean Voq?
@qui-gonrick7002
8 ай бұрын
How about the constant crying? I really hated that.
@BaldAndCurious
8 ай бұрын
@@qui-gonrick7002 from Michael? Yeah. I get the feeling she was overdoing it.
@brandijoy1
8 ай бұрын
I liked the Klingons. To me they we’re transitioning from the dark make up wearing Klingons in TOS to the ridged forehead Klingons in TNG. I didn’t know it at the time since I stopped watching ENT around season 3 but an explanation was given why the Klingons had smoothed foreheads. I just assumed that DISCO was taking that explanation and going the next step with it. Showing the Klingons growing the forehead and nose ridges back.
@Momo-tc7sc
8 ай бұрын
I don’t hate Disco but, after taking several runs at trying to get into it, I am confident in saying it just isn’t my Trek. Even so, I’m not going to 💩on it because some of my fellow Trekkies enjoy it and I respect that. Also, as others have mentioned, it has opened the door for “Strange New Worlds,” which I very much enjoy, and other new adventures as well.
@tc539
7 ай бұрын
its garbage you know it and so do they
@jasonwalker9471
7 ай бұрын
@@tc539 I talked to someone the other day about SNW, and he said, "nah, I tried but I just can't get into it. It's not good like Discovery". It boggled my mind a bit... but everyone has different tastes, you know? I don't have to like every show, neither do you, and neither does he. In case you're curious I asked what he liked and disliked about both shows, and he said he dislikes the episodic nature of SNW, and really enjoys the "each season is a single long story" thing that Discovery does. That's the exact opposite of me.
@Donnagata1409
5 ай бұрын
@@jasonwalker9471 I like DSC better than SNW. SNW is good but a bit too much of TOS revisited.
@Yibambe.
3 ай бұрын
This kind of criticism is appreciated. It's not your cup of tea and I can respect that. You're not spewing hate all over the internet. You don't want to slight those who think differently. I wish all of us could disagree so civilly with each other, and for reasons we can clearly articulate, rather than obsessively trash the show and its characters in a way that seems so hateful and personal. Thanks for stating your case so gracefully.
@MichaelHeal99
8 ай бұрын
I have always liked Discovery. Its weird in some places, but it was a breath of fresh air of something new compared to the same format from Next Gen through Enterprise.
@shanewilliams9122
8 ай бұрын
Geez. The hate in the comment section hurts. No one forces you to watch it. So just let us enjoy it.
@DasPuppy
7 ай бұрын
AMAZING visuals, great actors, brought back Star Trek. But the writing. The directing. The lack of love for the other characters in the first few seasons. The constant panning camera. I am curious about Season 5 - and I SO hope they nail this one. I actually enjoyed seasons one and two.
@RogueScholarMDC
8 ай бұрын
Sean, I love your enthusiasm. I have zero disagreements with any of the points you raised. But to me, that makes it all the more disappointing for the series. They had ALL the pieces of the puzzle and just didn't deliver on the finished product. I'm not going to go into the detail of all the things that missed the mark. I stuck around from the start and will continue to do so until the very end. But the phrase that pops into my head the most when watching this summary is "Yeah, that's unfortunate." because you're right about all the good stuff. The bottom line for me is that even if you went into it knowing in advance all the points you raise, when you're finished with it you'd come away with nothing more. And that's why it is disappointing for me.
@DLZ2000
5 ай бұрын
I think each season's been getting better and better. It's a show that made no apologies about wearing its heart on its sleeve and I absolutely adored it for that reason. It took Troi's advice to Data "that emotions aren't good or bad; it's what you do with them that counts" and showed how empathy is the absolutely essential fuel in the fight for justice, not a weakness to be pitied. Supporting that theme, every season brought on new mentors that were experts in psychology and emotional intelligence: Cornwell, Pike, Vance, Rillak, as well as promoting Culber to counselor and employing the services of Dr. Kovich. The show dared to shift focus away from senior officers on a Starfleet posting, by focusing on one person's growth from grief-stricken maverick with a martyr complex to someone who learns to move past that by being more transparent and deliberate, and gently guiding people away from the kinds of mistakes she used to make. Season one showed how peace can only be achieved through good faith. Season two showed how we can seek forgiveness and reconciliation for the past. Season three showed how connection is essential. And season four showed how the arduous work of reaching out to the seemingly implacable foe is an essential counter to the flailing preemptive strikes borne out of grief, a pretty full circle thematic tie. No matter what show is your favorite from the current era, you have Discovery to thank for it. No longer were shows constrained to the same formula. Star Trek is so much bigger than any one format. DSC's focus on underdogs meant that we could have a show about people who left Starfleet in PIC, a show about a quartet of ensigns at the beginning of their career in LDS, a show with young people who never even heard of Starfleet or the UFP, and a show that fills in the blanks in the transition period between Pike and Kirk. It also birthed Short Treks, which was a great testbed for new Trek concepts. I'm looking forward to see what new kinds of Star Trek shows we'll see in the future. There's already talk about a Section 31 show (Will that be about how that organization finds redemption?) and an Academy show. But I'd like to challenge Star Trek to branch out even more than it has during this era. Let's see what the Star Trek future is like from the perspective of civilians. Let's see what it's like to live planetside. DS9 showed we could do a space station to critically acclaimed results.
@n3onstars
8 ай бұрын
Now I haven't watched all of it, but I did love what I watched (first 3 seasons). I was a little disappointed that Airiam's arc was so shallow, because it really deserved way more time. I think people were so disappointed about the Burn because they had their expectations because they wanted something "badass". But often enough in reality, things are surprisingly anti-climactic, and the idea that it was something ~very~ unexpected is what made it interesting.
@Vanamonde96
3 ай бұрын
And that is actually very “Star Trek” I mean all of the older shows had some even weirder plots or episodes
@johndeltuvia7892
7 ай бұрын
The only beef I have with any of the new Treks is that streaming "seasons" (and I use that word lightly) don't go anywhere NEAR 26 episodes. So, for example, in FIVE seasons, Discovery will have had maybe two or three more episodes than TOS got in THREE seasons.
@tigershirew7409
8 ай бұрын
I really like ST Discovery and I am sad that season 5 will be it's end. I very much enjoyed the fact that it was different from other ST. And I am so very grateful it gave us Strange New Worlds which has got to be my favourite Star Trek ever (Lower Decks being a close second).
@pike100
8 ай бұрын
SNW is amazing. 👏 It is so well written, and the actors are terrific!
@superherofan1701
8 ай бұрын
"Discovery" had the same problem that "Enterprise" had for me in that I just don't care about the characters. I realized that mid-season 3 that I cared more about what was going on with Vulcan than I did about any of the characters.
@JDEhlert
8 ай бұрын
I long ago decided never to dislike a show for doing something different, or an episode saying or doing something that broke what people call canon. I think it was because of all the complaining about ST: Enterprise. I decided and worked at the idea that, since it's done, the idea was to take what the showrunners did and work it into the canon. So, when Discovery happened, I found myself feeling a very strong life to it, even figuring out how spore drives could work. It was a joy to see a Spock before Kirk, and how Pike moved on from Talos IV. While the 3rd season took a bit to get used to, as the story developed, I very much wanted to see why the Burn happened and even found new ideas that explained old problems. (Can't replicate dilithium because of the subspace link it has?). I think I'm going to enjoy Discovery Season 5, and to be honest, I'm not sad about it, because this was Michael Burnham's true journey. To fall, to fight to rise, and to finally reach what she was meant to be, a captain and explorer. With Starfleet Academy, we get to see that in the kids, before even Lower Decks styles come into play. And maybe see more of the crew as a part of that journey as well, with Burnham being the now strong captain to help guide them along the way.
@k1productions87
7 ай бұрын
Lets be clear here, just because one shouldn't HATE Discovery does not mean they are required to love it. There is no prerequisite that refusing to smear something means you are some kind of shill by default. It is that polarization by much of the fanbase that infuriates me the most. Do I love Discovery? No, I have a long laundry list of problems with it. BUT I will still defend its right to exist. IDIC - Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations. There is no asterisk of "but only the things I personally enjoy" in the word "infinite". My own personal tastes should NEVER determine what does and does not have the right to exist, because there are things I enjoy that others do not as well. Star Trek is for EVERYONE, not just me. That means there is room for all different types, just as there should be. And... because of Discovery, we got Strange New Worlds, for which I will be eternally grateful
@surplusgavids
8 ай бұрын
It was just too advanced looking. Too radically different from what we'd seen before. AND THEY EXPECT US TO PAY FOR THE PRIVILEGE.
@gailseatonhumbert
7 ай бұрын
No way - destroying the characters and back stories of Spock, Uhura and no longer nurse Chapel means I hate it. Spock as a incarcerated mental patient and Uhura as a teenager? Ridiculous.
@Yibambe.
3 ай бұрын
Uhura's character is developed in any single episode of SNW more than it ever was in TOS (the wonderful Nichelle Nichols deserved so much better). She's not a teen-ager in the show; she was in her early 20s as a cadet and is moving toward mid-20s now. SNW's portrayal of Chapel is pure redemption; the original depiction of her as a doormat who was only there to moon over Spock was embarrassing. I love badass Chapel. And Spock is no longer "incarcerated." Hot Spock is awesome.
@Messametti
8 ай бұрын
Without all the emotional outbursts from the main characters the show would be better. Often it feels like watching a show about a mental asylum in space and these persons shouldnt be on this ship, instead they should be in the office of a counselor. Starfleet officers should be professionals, the best of the best and not people who constantly need help with their feelings, endangering everyone else in the process. I dont hate the show but for me its a "watched it once and thats it".
@haplozetetic9519
8 ай бұрын
That's what I've said all along. Most of the cast should have still been in the academy and/or wouldn't have passed their psych tests. ...And don't get me started on Burnham! The entire show was her story, and an unwarranted one at that.
@scoutiii8893
8 ай бұрын
@@haplozetetic9519 It's so obvious how NONE of the writers and show runners understood what made Trek special. It was nerdy and introspective... Alex Kurtzman doesn't get that nor does he care about that so, he can have it! i don't watch any of it anymore.
@haplozetetic9519
8 ай бұрын
@@scoutiii8893 👍👍
@johnlindsay7301
4 ай бұрын
I’m only 2 seasons in and I don’t get the criticism. It’s so well done. The writing, the acting, the set design and effects. It’s all top notch. I really enjoy it and it’s too bad it isn’t appreciated for how good it is.
@jeffjr84
8 ай бұрын
In ten years when people are saying its good wishing for more episodes ill be here just like i was when they did it with enterprise to say "i told you so" because discovery is actually good... you just cant binge watch the thing there is too much going on youll miss a lot.
@archmage_of_the_aether
8 ай бұрын
I hated that they had to shoehorn in a fake family connection to Spock. That they had to basically rewrite the lore. Also, the whole "WEXWILL NEVER TALK ABOUT SNY SPORE DRIVE EVAR EVAAR" was lame as hell. If you can't keep to the lore, don't refer to it! Nobody was forcing you to situate a new series in between Enterprise and TOS. Similar to the problems of Rings of Power not sticking to lore. If you can't or won't, just dont half-ass it, and call me sexist when i don't like it.
@timrose9826
8 ай бұрын
Ppl love to hate… However don’t ignore that Disco has amazing prop and ship and bridge and set and special effect designs Plus some of the best actors around… Without Disco there would be no SNW 😮 Seriously Disco is a fun show with a lot going for it… stop hating y’all
@boombasett6038
8 ай бұрын
The characters are just unlikeable....especially that damn engineer. I stopped watching after the 2nd season. Perhaps if they had just made the show set in the 32nd century instead of that bullcrap...WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER. Not to mention, making Burhman Spock's adoptive sister...MEH !!! HARD PAST! SAME WITH SYBOK. JUST STUPID! I can't even rewatch it. It has no rewatchable value.
@ghijkmnop
8 ай бұрын
The Burnham whisper-shout is something I will not miss when the show ends.
@SturdivantRacing126
8 ай бұрын
Season 1 and 2 were alright, but was WAY too much Michael Burnham. Season 3-4 made the ships of the future so stupid looking, I couldn't watch it.
@Andrew-i1s7w
8 ай бұрын
I could easily fix discovery by placing Michael Burnham in the same asylum as Garth and giving an orderly a throw away line "She thinks ambassador Sarek adopted her, and was arrested multiple times trying to break into his residence."
@Bulldog_Trader
8 ай бұрын
Reasons 1-10 to despise Discovery = Michael Burham
@filippofittipaldi8050
8 ай бұрын
I enjoyed virtually all of Star Trek Discovery. I didn't like the Klinglon redesign, but I didn't like the TNG redesign at first, too. I personally love that DS9, Discovery, TNG, weren't clones of TOS.
@danielland3767
8 ай бұрын
And clone of TOS is what they wanted
@megalictis9002
8 ай бұрын
What Discovery did to Klingons should be a crime, but what that "at least 25% different" Star Trek did to the portrayal of Tellarites is a sin that can never be forgiven.
@VictorReynolds
8 ай бұрын
I like it. Although I struggled a bit for Season One, when we got Pike on board for Season Two, then the series worked. Shame we’re coming to the last season.
@RVandergeld
7 ай бұрын
Right! As long the Captain a strong male figure, you're happy 🙄
@VictorReynolds
7 ай бұрын
@@RVandergeld Nah! Gender doesn’t matter. Pike’s a legacy character that further strengthened Disco’s place in ST canon. This also introduced us to Spock and his family. LLAP!🖖🏽
@cynthiacampbell7277
8 ай бұрын
I started as a hater, but I gave the show another chance when season 2 came out, started over from the beginning and fell in love. After they resolved the Lorca storyline the show came into its own. The characterization and longer character story arcs are especially rich.
@captainmagenta899
8 ай бұрын
Smashed the like button purely for the Garth Marenghi cameo
@brandijoy1
8 ай бұрын
I am so glad that I had the chance to binge watch ST:DISCO seasons 1-4 without knowing about any of the hate going on about this show. I absolutely loved seasons 1-2, season 3 was ok but season 4 could have been better. It was because of this show that my love for Star Trek was renewed and got me watching the rest of new Trek shows which I also enjoy. Not saying the show is perfect, no show is. But to spend time watching a show you dislike or just hate then spend more time on social media telling everyone how much you hate it, just seems like a waste of time to me. So far this last season of DISCO I’m going to watch season 5 like I did seasons 1-4, without the hate and belittling of characters that I like from people who have obviously nothing better else to do with their time.
@CaptainKwame1773
8 ай бұрын
I really enjoy Discovery. I think the visuals and acting are well done, and I’ll always be a fan of Captain Saru.
@MC-gj8fg
6 ай бұрын
The two halves of season 1 seemed disjoined, and then came the 31st century time jump. The whole show felt like it was endlessly and awkwardly attempting to course correct and I felt as though there were events from the first season that needed to be fleshed out that were simply abandoned.
@dinomonzon7493
8 ай бұрын
Discovery was rather good, especially in its first 2 seasons. But it shouldn't have killed of Captain Gabriel Lorca: revealing him as a Mirror Universe doppelganger was a rather good twist- but the original Lorca should've been seen and his fate determined. The war aspect- it worked for Deep Space Nine. The spore drive: In real life, the US Navy used several propulsion6 systems for its submarines, from diesel to electric-turbine, to nuclear, so why should Starfleet be beholden to only the warp drive? As for the Klingons- don't forget that they're an Empire, enough reason to explain their differing looks.
@dellytancyl524
8 ай бұрын
I honestly love Discovery far more than I ever anticipated - the feedback I was hearing was so bad I was sure I would hate it, but WOW! I was blown away (yes despite certain issues). My least favorites so far has been Ethan Peck's Spock (every time I hear Spock I expect to see Nimoy) but Peck growing on me. I fell in love with Detmer and Owo almost immediately. Stamets was a revelation of an engineer and Adira was an interesting modern addition to the Franchise and Honestly Oded Fehr is a delight in everything I've seen him so far. I've seen every available star trek show ever made and "That Hope is you" S3E1 is easily one of my favorite episode of Star Trek EVER! meeting Mr. Sahil brings a tear to my eyes EVERY SINGLE TIME. it's not perfect but what show ever is. Also I vote every Star trek from now on add a Tilly like character. I would love to have gotten to know Lt Rhys and Bryce better but Commander Reno makes up for some of that. Although I hope Season 5 give Rhys and Bryce a little more love.
@ronniemark3627
8 ай бұрын
Well said!!
@s.hagens5389
8 ай бұрын
The characters have a lot of potential. I really wish we could finally get to know them in this last season. I really wouldn’t mind if they did it like SNW, in which each new episode revolves around another character. These actors deserve more background than just a single line per episode or the childhood trauma story of the week. I wouldn’t also mind if we only get a few minutes of Burnham per episode. She has been in the spotlight more than enough. Let other characters be the hero for a change.
@Animaniac0451
8 ай бұрын
I love Discovery, but i have friends who have absolutely refused to watch the show after the first 2 episodes because they writers had Star Fleet personnel commit a horrific war crime in the 2 part premiere. Booby trapping the enemy dead with explosives is a thing that happens in real life and they can't look past that.
@Lordoftheapes79
8 ай бұрын
I don't hate it, but the whole Micheal saves the day in every scenario isn't Star Trek to me. It's about the crew, not just the Captain. Too many characters have been neglected.
@earthstar7534
8 ай бұрын
Some episodes and story lines are just unwatchable. Some is...... fine. I dont hate it, i dont think about it at all really.
@Solo_Traveling
8 ай бұрын
I watched season 1 and 2. Yeah it had it's good moments and I liked several things. But I didn't care about most of the crew. I liked Tilly and Saru, but Michael Burnham was a Mary Sue and the rest of the crew were meh. It says something that, for me, the best part of Discovery season 2 was the Enterprise. The Enterprise, Pyke and Spock. I do intent to watch season 3 and onward at some point, though, just because I want to find out what happens in the 32nd century.
@Paul__FC
8 ай бұрын
Stop defending it. It is visually beautiful, absolutely horriblely written dumpster fire with its only saving grace being that it gave birth to Strange New Worlds.
@KingOfMadCows
8 ай бұрын
I don't think many people will care or remember Discovery after it ends. The thing with other Trek shows that had divided fanbases is that they still had incredible episodes or story arcs that even fans who didn't like the show would agree are great. I don't like Enterprise but I still think season 4 is really good. I have a lot of problems with Voyager but Year of Hell was a great two parter, I also love episodes like Death Wish, Scorpion, Counterpoint, most of the Doctor focused episodes, etc. So even with the Trek shows I didn't like over all, there are still episodes I would rewatch. I haven't wanted to rewatch any episodes of Discovery.
@dudedog62
8 ай бұрын
I quit watching Star Trek when you started having to pay for it
@SingularityOrbit
8 ай бұрын
There's a funny way that _Discovery_ keeps playing jarring notes, and then it somehow manages to stick the landing by the season's end. It's like they have a great story, but then other elements get added in along the way that don't quite feel like they belong. They're different for different people, too. Some freaked out about Michael being an adopted sister to Spock (my only reaction was, "This had better be going somewhere." And it did!). Some didn't like one character or another. It's a lot of different reasons, though, and most are different from my dislikes. But every season has been different, and every one (except, for my money, season 1) sticks the landing. I honestly believe that most of what I don't like is just the way shows are made today. _Strange New Worlds_ is a bit old-fashioned, like something from the Oughts, and that pace works better for someone over 50 years old. _Discovery_ has a lot of tics, like extravagant camera motions, and emotional beats that work jarringly instead of smoothly with the larger story. These may just be the way a 2020s TV show is made, though. No matter what, though, it's totally Star Trek. Starfleet aren't flawless, but they are always trying to find a way to do the right thing. Communication and making moral decisions win out over having the most guns. The stories examine the worst that could happen, then navigate away from that outcome towards a better one. And I will never forget that this was the show where Starfleet Headquarters flew to a world's rescue, which is pretty much the coolest thing ever. For that I can easily forgive Michael Burnham having almost as much omni-talented Main Character Syndrome as Tom Paris over on _Voyager._
@ClarinoI
7 ай бұрын
The thing is, if the show weren't bloody awful in so many ways nobody would have felt the need to compile a list of reasons not to hate it.
@AdriPinkAngel
8 ай бұрын
I like it a Lot, and push the franchise foward in the timelime and giving us more new canon and developments in tech, thank you for this video, maybe young generations aré more in tune with it
@alyssagynepuppy
8 ай бұрын
I actually really like Discovery. Yeah the plot struggles (a lot) sometimes but the characters more then make up for it. Also while season 1 has been far from perfect it is one of the better first trek seasons, definitely surpassing tng and voy season 1
@mikeschembri8870
8 ай бұрын
This video brings to light how much went into this series, from props, to special effects, set, 'creature' and starship design. So much talent, and the writing just wrecks all of it. Im so happy Strange New Worlds was released to give hope to the franchise.
@Trelane574
8 ай бұрын
By Grabthar's hammer, by Beverly Crusher's possessed candle, there is no Star Trek premise stupider than The Burn.
@DatDudeVince
8 ай бұрын
It's even worse than "what does God need with a starship?" and that's saying a lot. @@Trelane574
@chrischros8790
7 ай бұрын
The only good thing coming out of Disco is Strange New Worlds and the resurgence of Michelle Yeoh. The first 2 seasons were actually not bad but it got somewhat repetitive, especially the overly emotional parts in the following two seasons .
@mathewdefreitas4510
8 ай бұрын
The first two seasons of DISCO are a massive struggle to like. Your first reason for not hating it being "it brought back Star Trek to TV" is pointless. CBS Studios was launching a new app, CBS ALL ACCESS and they needed content. Star Trek was their biggest brand name. So, anything new with the name Star Trek on it was going to bring people to the platform. It just so happened that Discovery was that show. I would have had zero problems with season 1 had they done the following: 1. Make the design of the ships actually resemble the era (like SNW). 2. Make the Klingons look like Klingons. 3. Holograms for communication???? Really? Have the producers watched Enterprise or TOS? To number 9, yes the props were fairly accurate. But the ships were not. And if the show is of an era, it has to respect the ship style inside and out. I'll give you number 8. But again respect the canon. 7. was pretty great. I would have preferred straight nacelle pylons. But it was a million times better than 2009. 6. Totally agree. The best thing it could do. 5. Ok. Not a reason to hate the show. But not a reason to love it either. 4. A good character. But I'd say what I said about 5. here too. 3. Yay they actually got something right. 2 and 1. totally agree.
@chacaf22
8 ай бұрын
I subscribe this comment 100% S1&2 are a hard, very hard watch
@gaz74205
8 ай бұрын
I don't hate it, I don't think i'm capable of hating star trek, but it's issues are many and deep. I'm fairly sure there is a big warning sign on the writers room door that proclaims "THIS IS A LOGIC FREE ZONE"
@danspawn85
8 ай бұрын
I like some of the characters, but what do we know of them? Where's this series bottle shows with lots of character development? Disco has none. There's no room for them.
@stevemorris3924
8 ай бұрын
it was never the idea with Disco that never jelled with me it was the story writing, the lack of group character development (was so on board for having gay characters but i feel they messed it up) and the sloppy mess of the klingons. The visuals are stunning, the props show so much love and the idea was sound. It just felt badly exacuted and thats what pushed me out. But it did get us strange new worlds and lower decks so it's not all bad.
@dmtien
8 ай бұрын
I loved that they had a gay lead who was married, but it seemed like they were trying to shoehorn so many tropes and identities in such a short span as if to exclaim to everyone "we're the inclusive Trek", it just seemed so forced and distasteful. In the 23rd century, gay members of Starfleet should exist openly, but I'd hope that by then it wouldn't be such a big deal.
@ScoobySnacksYum
8 ай бұрын
@@dmtien Yet being queer was never treated as a big deal. Discovery featured a married gay couple. No part of their being gay played a part in their career decisions any more so than we've seen in the past with Troy & Riker, et al. No one in Starfleet cared that other characters were non-binary or trans.
@dmtien
8 ай бұрын
@@ScoobySnacksYum That part I didn't have an issue with. I loved the push-pull dynamic between Culber and Stamets, especially once Culber was back to being alive and functional. It was just a bit of a hat on a hat on a hat for "the" gay couple to adopt a non-binary character who was carrying around the Trill consciousness of a dead trans boyfriend. It would have been better/better writing if Adira existed independently as nonbinary, and there to be a trans character elsewhere in the ship. I also wish they didn't promote the hell out of it as some kind of spectacle--it just left a bad taste, and was a disservice to organic inclusion. Also, Jett Reno is one of my favorite characters from the show, but the writers do a huge disservice by making the majority of her scenes butting heads with Stamets--a rehash of yet another tired trope of the gay men in conflict with lesbians.
@andrewparnell5566
7 ай бұрын
Right from the beginning I could see this series was not Star Trek. The swearing. The attitude of the characters. The stories. I just have no interest in it. Star Trek ended in 2005. Cover actual Star Trek and I'll take a look.
@sergioaccioly5219
8 ай бұрын
I rather like Disco, and was more than a little annoyed when I heard it was being cancelled. I always mention that this was the only series in a very long time to use the scientific method to solve problems. Get the raw data, formulate a working hypothesis, test it and adjust the hypothesis to take into account the results. Rinse and repeat. The last season used it in spades when studying the DMA. Also, there were no Badmirals. You can't lauded enough, after so many incompetent and treacherous bosses littering the franchise. Rilak, T'Rina and Vance were a breath of fresh air. The dynamic between Book and Burnham in S4 - adversaries that trusted and relied on each other - was a joy to see.
@NeonVisual
8 ай бұрын
They didn't have a single science advisor in the writing room, which is abysmal for a science fiction show.
@sergioaccioly5219
8 ай бұрын
@@NeonVisual Her name is Erin McDonald, PhD in astrophysics, according to what I could find.
@ThePopolou
8 ай бұрын
To quote Soren to Picard in Generations, "nice try".
@kima.6611
8 ай бұрын
I've loved this series from day 1. My only issue, it's the same issue with the new 'Star Trek movies set before TOS, is it looks so more futuristic than TOS. I understand our movie making equipment and technology is far superior to 1960, but that's my only hangup with Discovery.
@kevinal
8 ай бұрын
Which begs the question why do a prequel series? At least with Star Trek Enterprise the set design, props, and uniforms matched the timeline before the TOS. And to make that, what is it? 300 or something year time jump into the future? Why do that? Why couldn't Discovery just start in the future and tell a story of how the Federation fell apart and the rebulbing of the Federation. Why couldn't they just have done that? That way they could go crazy on the visual effects and futuristic set designs without worrying about cannon timelines.
@MacTX
8 ай бұрын
I watched the first 2 episode of season 1 and lost interest till Pike was introduced in season 2. Season 2 kept my interest but it's not something I go back and rewatch. Discovery got interesting for me when they went into the future, I felt it was finally standing on its own. Then they had to go and cancel it when it started getting interesting. Felt like Enterprise all over again.
@JohnnyWednesday
8 ай бұрын
Admiral Vance is awesome - oozes Starfleet.
@warrenpoultney8215
8 ай бұрын
@@JohnnyWednesday I didn't know at first if I would like him. But as it turns out, he's a character I came to admire. He embodied, unfailing dedication to the mission, loyalty, and a serious give it all, in his character.
@JohnnyWednesday
7 ай бұрын
@@warrenpoultney8215 - it's what Disco needed from the start : professionals doing their job well.
@MysticChrono
8 ай бұрын
I did love Discovery, but there was a bit toooooo much crying.
@Nekomancer69
8 ай бұрын
Yup.
@Aragorn7884
8 ай бұрын
Emo Trek 😅
@jasonjimerson7046
8 ай бұрын
Season 5? *sigh* Okay, sure. I am a bit of a glutton for punishment. For the love of Saru!
@comradecid
8 ай бұрын
wow i thought i was the only one who didnt like that show
@benjaminstock5334
8 ай бұрын
I don't hate Discovery. Hate is such a strong emotion. I don't want to waste it on a show like Discovery. I just look at that picture of Michael Burnham in the thumbnail, and I avert my gaze out of embarressment. In a world where SNW and Picard season 3 exist, I don't have to care about Discovery. And my goodness, that is liberating.
@jpwphoenix1701
8 ай бұрын
I’ve always been 100% in support of Discovery. I love every aspect of it and am even doing a rewatch of it all at the moment. The ONLY criticism I have of it is the development (or lack) of the supporting characters. I just rewatched the episode where Airiam died and it’s painfully obvious how they went wrong with suddenly rushing all her character development into that one episode and then treat it like she was a major character we’ve spent close time and love with in every episode up to that point. Even Tasha Yar’s death had more meaning than hers. Sadly, despite that being in Season 2, they still didn’t do more to develop the rest of the Bridge crew in future seasons (apart from Detmer’s depression/PTSD arc). In fact, the new characters they brought in from Season 3 onwards, such as Book, Adira and Gray, have had more focus and development. Nothing much for Rhys, Bryce, Nilsson and Owosekun. In fact, Bryce was actually replaced by a new character, Christopher, in Season 4 when the actor had to go and shoot a movie.
@joey_cordova_
8 ай бұрын
I was a fan from the start. You can definitely feel the tone changes between the episodes leading up to the Mirror Universe in Season 1. But it ended up working and had a good payoff. The only thing I didn’t care for were the uniforms in the early seasons. Of now thanks to Lower Decks we know Starfleet uses multiple designs at one time. But… still ☹️. Plus, Discovery was in production hell for two years thanks to Bryan Fuller and the old CBS CEO. The show deserves respect for that
@euchiron
8 ай бұрын
There's one constant through all the Trek series for me, regardless of how high on my fave list they rank: I don't love all of the execution, but I usually love the ideas and how they are explored. Call me hooked on sci-fi, and Trek is definitely among my favourites.
@watcherofwatchers
8 ай бұрын
I like Discovery, but I don't love it. It's probably my least favorite of the series, but it has improved over the years.
@TitanInvictusTube
8 ай бұрын
Yeah, I can't agree with, "You'll miss it in 10 years. Like you do Enterprise." It's just not good. It is OK at best and is not helped by having the most unlikeable main character of all Trek imo. For the sake of the entire Trek universe though, I hope you're right but I can never imagine rewatching Discovery. Best thing Discovery did was introduce Anson Mount's Enterprise. That alone is worth it existing!
@countluke2334
8 ай бұрын
My no. 1 reason: it finally gets cancelled.
@highallmighty233
8 ай бұрын
Nope
@penbucket
7 ай бұрын
OK!!!I think I will finish season 4, simply because I made it that far. There's a lot to like... but when Strange New Worlds showed up... THAT show reminded me of everything I love about Star Trek.
@acu01136
8 ай бұрын
Yeah-season 1 and 2 were great, 3 was a totally missed opportunity... Seriously THAT was the "burn". Gtfo. And then... There was season 4. We don't talk about season 4. I think we all understand that Michael, isn't actually ever a star fleet captain... And Tilly, the most inept cadet... Is suddenly a trainer! It was the writers, everyone did a great job, even the actors... But the inability to write characters and plot killed this show. Okay - and now be honest what culture...... Give us a "10 reasons we don't like Disco!" THAT would be an interesting video/actual article! Fans *are* allowed to be critical... We are literally "fanatical" about the subject! (you could call it how to "improve" disco)
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