A few people have been curious about cylinder gap sizes, especially this 10mm revolver. I finally found my feeler gauges and measured. My S&W 686 has the standard .004" cylinder gap that most people consider perfect. My S&W model 610 only has a .002" cylinder gap. I haven't noticed any rotation problems, super smooth, but that is a pretty tight gap.
@arapahoetactical7749
22 күн бұрын
I was going to bring this up. I'd done some chronograph testing between my .357s a few years ago and noticed a huge difference between my 686 and my Ruger Security Six, both with 6" barrels. My 686 had a long and storied past and had a gap of .013" while my Ruger, one owner with little use, has a gap of .006". If you have a gap of only .004" that is really good and even better on the 10 mm. In my testing, the 686 with it's huge gap gave an average velocity of 1386 FPS while the Ruger with it's .006" gap gave 1418 FPS with the same ammo. So cylinder gap can make just as much of a difference as barrel length. Again, Great work, I really appreciate the effort you've put into this.
@jamesclark6427
20 күн бұрын
I typically set cylinder/barrel gap at .003" when I set back the barrels of revolvers, and never experienced any cylinder binding in any of the many guns I've done this to. I've actually set the gap as small as .0015" with no trouble, including with plain lead bullets. The US industry standard is considered to be .006" +/- .003". I've gauged the gap on hundreds of revolvers over the years and it varies wildly. As small as .003" and as large as .020". Older lower cost top break and solid frame revolvers chambered for cartridges like the .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long and .38 S&W often display rather shocking gaps up to .035". Yet still typically develop velocity in the 500-650 fps range and deliver fairly good accuracy. Despite often rather casual cylinder/barrel alignment. Quite a bit of spitting with the soft lead bullet ammunition, as any shooter of vintage revolvers has probably experienced.
@jamespnorth2694
21 күн бұрын
I don’t often leave KZitem comments, but I wanted to thank you for the quality of your videos. I find them to be very informative.
@theoriginalOSOK
22 күн бұрын
On Average, the .357 Mag and 10mm are ballistic twins. I like them both. The 10mm gives you actual full power .357 Mag power in an autoloader - that's the utility of it IMHO. As always, I enjoyed the vid Sam!
@justsayin7937
15 күн бұрын
💯
@95fordtbirdlx
22 күн бұрын
My 6" 686 averaged 1499 and my 6" Desert eagle averaged 1528 with that underwood 357 loading. Thanks for the fine work and upload!
@GunSam
22 күн бұрын
What's interesting is that the Underwood 158 gr JHP is rated at 1,500 FPS and I got 1,267 FPS in my 4" 686, but the Buffalo Bore 158 gr JHP version is rated at 1,475 FPS and I got 1,434 FPS in my 4" S&W 686. Anytime I have looked at Federal or Remington or others' ballistic charts, they show test barrel as a 4" V. So from what I consider a normal barrel rating platform, the Buffalo Bore was 41 FPS below the rated velocity but the Underwood was 233 FPS below the rated velocity. Long story short, the Underwood is pretty weak when we are talking high end ammo companies.
@Gieszkanne
22 күн бұрын
@@GunSam Its very unlikely that you will get 232 fps more with just two inch more barrel. Something is wrong here.
@nicholasroberts9618
22 күн бұрын
@GunSam I've noticed Underwood is starting to load all their ammo on the "weaker" side lately however I don't buy their revolver ammo anymore I just stick with the classic Remington 125gr SJHP 357mag or Buffalo Bore 125gr JHP 357mag. I still only buy their 124gr 357Sig and they changed projectiles, again and are using the XTP once again.
@GunSam
22 күн бұрын
@@Gieszkanne Right. From what I have always seen in data, going from 4" to 6" usually results in numbers like 50-80 FPS more.
@Lateralus1007
22 күн бұрын
What about hornady custom 158 gr. 357 ? I swear every time I shoot that load it sprays un burnt powder out the cylinder gap And I slaps like a mofo Remington loads their magnums hot too Was shooting em Sunday at the range 😎
@plasticglock
22 күн бұрын
Love the powerful ammo test Sam! I really like both of those purdy guns too! Can't wait to see what the Underwood 200 grain XTP's do out of it. That 10mm revolver is SWEET!
@GunSam
22 күн бұрын
I have the Underwood 180 gr XTP ready to test, but haven't picked up the 200 gr yet.
@ThaGVPSon
21 күн бұрын
These are really beautiful guns I freaking love the aesthetic look of stainless steel shiny revolvers packing 357 magnum punch so awesome
@prestonmonaghan499
22 күн бұрын
I think they reduced the 357 Mag pressure so Smith and Wesson could chamber the J frames for 357 Mag
@brianklamer3328
22 күн бұрын
You are correct.
@user-wo2iw3kt8o
21 күн бұрын
I have a old Speer manual. Form the late 1970,s. There is a section for all 357 mag revolvers. And a complete section for ruger or Thompson center single shot only.
@nighthawk1999
22 күн бұрын
KZitem really needs to fix this bot problem.Good video as always though Sam
@timrobinson6573
22 күн бұрын
Are you telling me I haven't won $5,000 and that Russian models don't want to date me?
@CrashRacknShoot
22 күн бұрын
@@timrobinson6573nah man, keep that dream alive
@Texas2Step79
22 күн бұрын
@timrobinson6573 you mean I'm not gonna get $100,000 sent to my cash app ??
@BADD1ONE
22 күн бұрын
That is correct. But there are single hot moms in your area@@timrobinson6573
@frankhinkle5772
21 күн бұрын
@@timrobinson6573 No, the Russian models really do want to date you, but keep your credit card handy.
@Kelly-oq9nh
22 күн бұрын
Another great video with that 10 mm revolver Sam. These comparisons are fun to watch… and expensive. I think I need to pick up a 610
@livincincy4498
22 күн бұрын
You can see how many inches of penetration expansion costs a projectile. Expansion is always revered as the important thing. But reality it is energy not being transferred to the intended target. Likewise 36” of penetration represents a lot of energy passing thru.
@GunSam
22 күн бұрын
Also energy tends to be pretty tough on penetration. Like for instance if I took two rounds that both would expand to an identical diameter, and both bullets weighed the same, if I pushed one a couple hundred FPS faster, that one tends to penetrate a tad less as if the gel was 'harder' with more velocity. Sort of like how a person jumping off a bridge from 300 feet will die, but from 10 feet you just slice through the water in a perfect dive.
@brandiwynter
22 күн бұрын
I dunno, if a big brown bear was charging me I'm guessing my grip would be almost as tight as my butt pucker lol.
@toolmakerbest1584
19 күн бұрын
Sam, since I started watching your channel my respect for your ballistic knowledge has grown expediently!
@danoneill2846
22 күн бұрын
I like the short barrel look of the 10mm
@DanTheWolfman
22 күн бұрын
Same here
@Kelly-oq9nh
22 күн бұрын
Agree I want one !
@bobcatforever3485
22 күн бұрын
GS. Another good and interesting ammo comparison. Thanks for sharing and take care.
@TransformersHoarder
22 күн бұрын
Both awesome!
@nicholasroberts9618
22 күн бұрын
Excellent video! IMO 357Sig, 40S&W and 10mm make 9mm and 45acp obsolete but 357Mag and 44Mag are just timeless!
@El_Peto
22 күн бұрын
Just 500 million people shoot the 9mm But it's obsolete bcos Nick Roberts informed us
@danoneill2846
22 күн бұрын
9mm won't be obsolite any time soon
@LibertysetsquareJack
21 күн бұрын
The more modern cartridges are essentially "timless" too, in terms of the physics. In terms of external ballistics, 40 S&W and even many 10mm Auto is essentially just 38-40 Winchester, which is far older than anything listed here. Other loadings of modern cartridges essentially duplicate 44-40, 38 S&W, 41 Colt, and such like. Nothing really new under the sun.
@LibertysetsquareJack
21 күн бұрын
That said, it is funny that people make allegations of "Fudd!" if people gravitate towards 357 Mag, 44 Mag or 41 Mag, when really, these three represent much later developments in firearms technology, far more so than something such as 9mm Luger. Even 10mm Auto is essentially only trying to duplicate aspects of 357, 41 and 44 Mag within an autoloader form factor, not actually introduce anything radical in terms of internal or external ballistics, which 357 Mag and 44 Mag actually both **did** do. On the same note, 450 SMC remains basically a footnote, despite being representative of what the actual advances in pistol and cartridge design and manufacture from the last forty years allow for. Similar could be said for more recent rimmed cartridges, such as 327 Federal.
@paraconsistentjojo
17 күн бұрын
Why would 45ACP be obsolete? They are bullets and they stop people. It seems like people just need to have something to say.
@DanTheWolfman
22 күн бұрын
10mm Foooks! I think I'd do a 165 Underwood but still damn! Great Job Sam, mentioned you in my Bond Arms interview w him going over all his Derringers. I'd love a 10mm Revolver so could usually shoot 40 but otherwise I've been holding off on 1cm just to save money...I'm worried I'll like it too much!;
@GunSam
22 күн бұрын
Thanks! What's interesting is I don't think I have ever seen a 10mm load in 165 gr despite seeing a lot of .40 S&W loads in 165 gr. I see lots of 155, 170 and 180 gr 10mm. I will have to look and see who makes 165 gr 10mm.
@GunSam
22 күн бұрын
Haha, I just went on ammoseek and entered 155 gr 10mm in general. There's 5 pages with 100 choices per page. I then entered 165 gr and there's 11 choices total, and they were all either Grizzly, Double-Tap or Cor-Bon. I wonder why so many companies load 155 gr but not 165 gr, when 165 gr is a standard .40"/10mm weight.
@DanTheWolfman
22 күн бұрын
@@GunSam UW used to I believe the 165 Gold Dot...too bad that seemed to be the one. 180 gr Vcrowns (made by Sierra...are generally meh and shed jackets but the 10mm Vcrown seems good from what I've seen I am sure you've tested it idk
@rickoshea4546
22 күн бұрын
@@GunSamUnderwood 165 gold Dot
@jonclark8155
22 күн бұрын
Good video Sam thanks for your hard work.
@GunSam
21 күн бұрын
So, I have to mention this because of the incessant trolling. JUST because I said that I have seen a lot of videos where people were having 10mm semi-automatic pistol malfunctions (which I have) and just because I have read a lot of incidents of 10mm semi-automatic pistols malfunctioning or not being operational to an average person using one for bear defense (which I have), this does NOT require a comment that YOU have a Glock 20 and "never had a malfunction" nor does it require ME to list sources of where I watched these videos or read these stories. My videos are not scripted, and the entire point of this video was a ballistic test, NOT about one thing I mentioned about what I have seen and read with and about 10mm semi-automatic pistols not being reliable at a higher rate than other calibers. I didn't ask anyone if they have ran their Glock 20's reliably, as that has nothing to do with what I have witnessed and read. My eyes don't lie. It is absolute truth that a person that is not super experienced with handguns, can run a 9mm pistol or a revolver without a hiccup, but with something like a 10mm auto, the odds of having a limp wrist malfunction go way up. THAT was my point. MY POINT was that 10mm auto is a great cartridge, but people should be aware of it's limitations. It would be wrong for me to not mention these truths because a lot of people coming to my videos have next to no handgun experience and are debating getting a 10mm pistol for bear defense. These are the type of people who are unlikely to vet their pistol and ammo, and just go out thinking everything is fine because of the reckless KZitemrs who cater to the younger generation for views, and just act like whatever they get will work, who list all the pros and none of the cons. Those people should be ashamed of themselves as should the guys who knock my words with "I never had a Glock 20 malfunction". You're just as bad as one of those shills. Worse than a troll.
@user-wo2iw3kt8o
21 күн бұрын
Gun Sam don't believe glocks will not malfunction. I had one when I was in law enforcement. My glock 357 sig. Went for failure to feed to armory 3 differnt times during qualifications. And I had several glock mags go bad. Only thing I used .my glock hard. I'm glad I never had to use other than drawing.
@danoneill2846
21 күн бұрын
People hear & see a lot of things ... I hear about Glock smiles .. never had one in many rounds . But what I want to know is .... How big are the chambers in the 610 Vs any other .400 chamber ?? I know the 10mm auto is an after market chamber . Any big difference ?
@Cr0wmagnum
21 күн бұрын
I know guy who has a cousin who's neighbors uncle....
@robertbrittner6790
21 күн бұрын
Waaaaaaaa... .waaaaaaa
@mfaracing
21 күн бұрын
I have a considerable gun collection. I have been tempted to get a 10mm Glock and the reason why I haven't done it is a video of Hickock45 where he kept missing. I consider Hickock a very good shot and he actually complained about that gun. Also, I have read other reports from people having troubles with the Glock 20 Gen 5 so I hold off. I deeply appreciate your work Sam, and having already a few 357mag revolvers, I can't see any reason why I should get a 10mm revolver. On top of it, the idea of having to rely on moon clips puts be off. Your videos are applied science, some of the best on youtube.
@mfaracing
22 күн бұрын
Very good video Sam!
@RimfireAddicted70
21 күн бұрын
I do not think comparisons should be done between the 2 on identical bullet weight but more on what is the likely to be used bullet weight. I think comparing them how they will be run in the real world is a better comparison for performance because that is going to show me end results of how I would use them. Once again this channel does a excellent job providing detailed information on these calibers. Great work!
@dangerman007
22 күн бұрын
I liked both of these. I would feel very comfortable carrying either round.
@hivelsword
21 күн бұрын
As much as I love Underwood 10mm, their .357 mag isn’t that great. Gotta use Buffalo Bore. In the end, the hottest .357 mag loads will outclass the hottest 10mm given the same rifling travel and comparable bullet weights.
@andywindes4968
22 күн бұрын
I've had a Glock 20C for at least 25 years, and in all that time I can't remember it ever jamming. Having said that, I can't swear that I've put full-house 10mm ammo through it. If I was ever going to hike grizzly territory, I'd be inclined to carry the 610 and load it with full power, hard cast semi-wadcutters and pray that I could hit a vital spot with a deep-penetrating round. If I'm in black bear territory, I don't sweat it. I've come across black bears literally dozens of times while fishing in eastern Arizona and never had one do anything but run like hell. If I carry at all, it's probably a .357 revolver and I'm carrying it mostly out of concern for two-legged critters. I'm mostly a revolver guy, especially when carrying in the outdoors, but I'll admit to having a soft spot for the 10mm Glock, but my experiences with that gun could be better than what most people get.
@Lateralus1007
22 күн бұрын
Ya take a 6 round piece over a 15 round G20 🙄
@Lateralus1007
22 күн бұрын
@@nathanbailey9153federal 200 gr hst jams my gen 5 G20 every other round Probably cuz of the large hollow point tip But at $2 a round I’m not buying any more Just sticking to hornady custom XTP
@andywindes4968
20 күн бұрын
@@Lateralus1007 I'd be inclined to use a very hard cast Keith-style LSWC in the revolver. Those things penetrate and smash through bone. You're only going to only have one or two shots at most to stop the bear, and this bullet would never feed through an auto---not even a Glock.
@MrGsteele
2 күн бұрын
Over the years, and across a pretty wide variety of studies I've read of the effectiveness of cartridges as "one-shot stoppers," the .357 seems to come out very well - near the top of the list, and probably at least somewhat because those who carry them tend to be selective about their firearms and recognize the need to practice. The studies usually, in order to get a large sample, go back into archives which extend to the early days of the .357 when it was considered a "cannon," and treated as such. In those studies, generally the .45 ACP came pretty close, as well, and then there were the odd anomalies among other cartridges that related less to the effectiveness of the cartridge itself and more to the controllability of the weapon and lack of recoil. A bullet that hits is more effective than a more powerful one that misses. To see the .40 S&W in nearly the same class as the .357 in those tests, as a result of its manageability, and the 10mm not in the same class - owing to its recoil and slow follow-up shots gives a better understanding of defensive weapon effectiveness than just the physics - expanded bullet diameter, muzzle energy, etc. - and brings in the effectiveness of the gun/bullet/training/controllability, etc. as a system - working to achieve a combination of factors that ultimately gets the job done. And some studies do show the 10mm as effective, but with too small a sample size to make a definitive case owing to its rarity. Sometimes these things are counter-intuitive; I bought a S&W 4006 semi-auto in .40 S&W from a guy who was going back to 9mm because his wrists were taking a beating from the Smith - a heavy, stainless semi-auto that you'd think would be a good recoil absorber - particularly since it was also a LEO-issue gun widely sold in the US in the heyday of .40 S&W. I had to admit, the recoil was noticeable, and I'm a 1911 fan. I bought not long after a compact carry gun in .40 S&W, weight a POUND less than the 4006. The recoil was eminently more manageable, softer, much faster back on follow-up - in short, the opposite of what you'd expect. But the combination of grip ergonomics, bore axis height, slide velocity, slide mass and end-of-travel impact, recoil spring rate, etc. just made it a dramatically easier gun to shoot. The LEOs that dumped the 4006 to go back to 9mm over controllability issues did so at least in part because the gun itself was poorly designed from a human engineering point of view. I suspect the same would have been true with LEO experiments with 10mm - ergonomics would turn the day. The fact that it places right with the well-known and well-reputed .357 magnum, about which we now have 70 years of shooting experiences, marks it as a very effective cartridge - especially in a gun that fits you well. And I feel like that matters a lot, because the advantages of greater capacity, faster aimed follow-up shots with a single-action trigger, and far more rapid and convenient reloading of a semi-auto are compelling. No modern army issues revolvers to its troops as sidearms. There's a reason.
@vlogfriendsutopia
22 күн бұрын
Man, never thought I'd see the downfall of Underwood, but a lot of videos lately have shown their rimmed cartridges really underperforming.
@CrashRacknShoot
22 күн бұрын
I mean other videos, sure. It did great here. Not sure what you see to be the problem with this particular video. What didn't ya like?
@LibertysetsquareJack
21 күн бұрын
@@CrashRacknShootHe is most likely referring to how the velocity was near a couple of hundred feet per second slower than the cartridge's potential for that weight of bullet and that length of barrel.
@PassivePortfolios
22 күн бұрын
For bear defense, I'd stick with the 357 for deeper penetration, due to its greater sectional density.
@ratagris21
22 күн бұрын
The bears 🐻 will not agree with you!
@PassivePortfolios
22 күн бұрын
@@ratagris21 because they do not know the laws of physics.
@GunSam
22 күн бұрын
I think it matters what kind of bear lol. Black bears don't want none of you or your bullets. They take a couple red ryder bb's and are like, nope...But I could see how brown bears, you might want better penetration, but these are hollow points and not ammo chosen for bear, with the right ammo I don't think .357 Mag has any advantage one way or the other.
@brianklamer3328
22 күн бұрын
Same thought here.
@LibertysetsquareJack
21 күн бұрын
@@GunSamThe potential advantage with the 357 Mag for large animals is that the bullet shape can be different, because the round is not intended to feed out of a magazine and then over a feed ramp. The 10mm hardcasts will be more truncated, so a 357 Mag hardcast can have sharper shoulders, and similar meplat to the 10mm, despite being four calibers smaller. And of course, as you're aware the 357 has more legroom to stretch with longer barrels. So if someone was toting a carbine in the same catridge, they will see significantly more power out of a 357 lever action chambering that "dangerous game" loading than a 10mm PCC.
@poobank
22 күн бұрын
Great video demonstrating and explaining sectional densities
@hillbillyscholar8126
22 күн бұрын
I think you nailed it when you said the .357 would be better for deer. I would have liked to see a 110 or 125 grain XTP in the .357 for the comparison but I am sure you will get around to it. Both did well either way. Thanks for sharing! 👍💪❤️
@rickoshea4546
22 күн бұрын
As someone who has taken more deer with a 10mm than anything else, I can attest to the unmitigated fact that the deer disagree; especially when they generally can't make it 30 yards carrying a 10.
@hillbillyscholar8126
22 күн бұрын
@@rickoshea4546 The discussion is related to the ammunition tested, not the caliber or cartridge. The context was made plain in the video. Did you watch it in full?
@Fudmottin
21 күн бұрын
That particular 10mm load seems like a very good self defense load. I'm pretty sure the downloaded 357 would work well too, but I don't think it would be my first choice.
@user-wo2iw3kt8o
21 күн бұрын
Hi gun Sam. You have 2 very nice revolvers. Smith makes good stuff. I like quality . I always keep my guns forever. I still use my grandpaps 1894 30 wcf to hunt with.made in 1909. Your smiths will last forever too😊
@switter1999
6 күн бұрын
you always end up having a video Im looking for
@prigs750
22 күн бұрын
Enjoyed the video. A good follow-up video would be the 10mm vs a 41 mag
@christopherbishop4927
22 күн бұрын
This is my sentiment exactly Properly loaded 10mm has the ability to APPROACH 41mag ballistics
@GunSam
22 күн бұрын
No it wouldn't. There's almost no .41 Magnum ammo variety. No one with any common sense is going to go out and spend a grand to buy a .41 mag in current times, just to test the three HP loads that exist.
@prigs750
22 күн бұрын
@@GunSamwish I was closer. Would loan you my 6" model 57 for a test
@tdennebaum
21 күн бұрын
@@christopherbishop4927 No, it comparable to 357 mag, but not close to 41 mag unless it the 41 mag was lightly loaded!
@timrobinson6573
22 күн бұрын
1,267 for a 158 grain IS pretty pathetic. Buffalo Bore 40 SW in 155 grain claims 1,300.
@GunSam
22 күн бұрын
I got 1,312 FPS in the past in my 5" M&P with that Buffalo Bore .40 S&W. BUT, it's a .40 S&W+P which could mean anything.
@Cr0wmagnum
21 күн бұрын
I couldn't even begin to decide on one or the other of those 2 revolvers. Both would do me just fine. With the .40 and .38 special options both are very versatile.
@GunSam
21 күн бұрын
That's exactly where I am coming from THANK YOU, you're the first person that gets it. Like I have seen gobs of .40 S&W ammo for like $15 a box, and those 180 gr .40's hit the steel real hard, you get a ton of bang for your buck. Overall, I would say the .357 Mag is better for most people as the .357 Mag and .38 Special do everything pretty well, but if you're someone intending on burning up a ton of ammo to practice with, the 10mm is better because .40 S&W recoils like a real firearm and it's cheap.
@phildo39645
9 күн бұрын
Great video as usual Sam!
@arapahoetactical7749
22 күн бұрын
Great video, I really like how well you've compared these 2 on an equal footing by getting the 10 mm in a revolver with a similar barrel length. I have a 686 in 6" and a Coonan .357 in a 5" and the Coonan, not having a cylinder gap at all was 1550 FPS with similar ammo and my average from the 686 was only 1386 FPS. I've wondered for some time about how the 10 stacks up to the .357 and this is about the best comparison I've seen yet. My take is that these are pretty much on par with one another, as Paul Harrell would say, "Not enough difference to make a difference." The 10 is larger in diameter, will likely make a bigger hole which is important, but in larger game, the .357 may hold a slight edge in penetration.
@robertseafield5810
22 күн бұрын
Good info. If you are getting limp wrist jams, step up to a slightly more powerful round. I test any carry ammo with a really limp wrist. Your point about getting injured is spot on.
@johnhastings353
22 күн бұрын
Good point on the revolver v semi auto in a charging bear situation. Has happened twice to 2 people in Alaska,that I know of,that we're using semi auto 10mm. If they had a revolver,prob would gave not gotten their asses kicked by that bear. Malfunction happens a lot w semi in stress situation
@danoneill2846
22 күн бұрын
RE: 155 gr 10mm Vs 158 357 mag = SD VS SD
@timblack131
22 күн бұрын
Begone thot bots! Good video as always Sam!
@timrobinson6573
22 күн бұрын
They're not bots. They really love me.
@timblack131
22 күн бұрын
Lmfao, damn dude, in that case, save some for the rest of us! @@timrobinson6573
@paulx2777
22 күн бұрын
I don't see the point of a 10 mm N-frame, when you can get a .44 Mag N-frame.
@GunSam
22 күн бұрын
I've had both before. Just because one might be better, this isn't an and/or thing for me.
@LibertysetsquareJack
21 күн бұрын
Yep. The weight and bulk of the pistol is the same, power has gone down, and the 10mm no longer has it's "capacity advantage," because it's a revolver. So yeah, it is perplexing as to who the intended market for these 10mm large frames is (and also 9mm medium and large frames), or what the perceived use is. If someone is going to tote a revolver that large and heavy, IDK why they would limit themselves to the confines of 10mm Auto, when they could go 41 Mag, 44 Mag, or 45 Colt.
@paraconsistentjojo
17 күн бұрын
@@LibertysetsquareJackI have been reading your comments, and your takes are clear, straightforward and right.
@LibertysetsquareJack
17 күн бұрын
@@paraconsistentjojo Thanks!
@Lateralus1007
11 күн бұрын
Look at the price of 10mm vs 44 MAG 🙄
@rangetime6779
21 күн бұрын
Great video! I've had accuracy issues with revolvers chambered in pistol calibers. The head spacing on the case mouth, taper crimps etc tend to add more variables in accuracy (e.g. S&W P325 in 45 ACP). I'd appreciate you testing some 40 S&W in your revolver. It appears that the stiffer moon clips will allow 40 S&W to function in your revolver . Regarding bullet creep: I assume the cylinder holding the cartridge on the case mouth allows for the creep vs a magazine that lets the cartridge just flop around in the magazine?
@user-dl1qm2dx5c
21 күн бұрын
Looks like you got a covid produced lot of 357 mag there. I know during covid underwood let some very underpowered lots out into the wild. Have some myself, they say Underwood on the base instead the usual star line logo. Barely get 1200 fps out of a 4 inch.
@BADD1ONE
22 күн бұрын
I barely hold my G20. Darn near limp wrist it. Ill put all 15 in a 4" circle at 30 yards. I cant do that with any other caliber pistol i own. I just embrace the recoil. Expect it and ride it. I shoot my G20 better than anything ive shot. Its never malfunctioned.
@GunSam
22 күн бұрын
Rare. All the evidence I have seen, they are very unreliable. Granted, I also can run hot ammo barely holding it as my arms are heavy, even with a limp wrist it will still run. You give that pistol to a person that is skinny and their arms kick back from recoil, and it's gonna jam.
@BADD1ONE
22 күн бұрын
@@GunSam heavy guide rod and spring and a 3# trigger. Maybe that made the difference. 2000k rounds never jammed.
@rickoshea4546
22 күн бұрын
@@GunSamGen4? Because I had my 92lb 5ft 1in niece shooting my 20sf with 180xtps @1350+ with no issues.
@TheKentuckyPatriot
22 күн бұрын
Good stuff brother!
@Master-AGN
21 күн бұрын
10 mm is a real man stopper you say. Well, that’s good enough for me.
@frankhinkle5772
21 күн бұрын
Thanks, interesting test. I have both K-frames and N-frames, and I do not shoot the N-frames nearly as well as the K-frames.
@Lateralus1007
11 күн бұрын
I’m not quite understanding the moon clip in the 10mm, is it necessary or can you shoot without it Because I remember in one episode You said it was necessary for shooting .40 ?? Or will they shoot but just not eject ?.. Ps, loving the new 10mm revolver and episodes coming with it 🙏 💪
@GunSam
11 күн бұрын
The 10mm will shoot without the moon clip, the case mouth headspaces on a lip just like in a semi auto chamber, but you can't eject them with the ejector. The .40 S&W must use the moon clip, as it headspaces on the moon clip which allows for you to shoot .40 S&W.
@joshuabriggs7114
22 күн бұрын
Very weird, those 158 Underwood's avg a bit over 1300 out of my 3" SP101. The 125xs do 1530!
@GunSam
22 күн бұрын
No they don't lol. No one will believe you on that one, a 3" barrel near 600 ft lbs energy, I don't think so.
@joshuabriggs7114
22 күн бұрын
@GunSam my chronograph has given me consistent readings for years but I will check it again. Your readings seem low for "full house" 158gr .357's
@GunSam
22 күн бұрын
@@joshuabriggs7114 They are low because Underwood loaded them low. I averaged 1,434 FPS in this revolver with the Buffalo Bore 158 gr XTP load.
@upperroomtoo
22 күн бұрын
I have killed several deer with the 158 XTP. It is a great bullet!
@paraconsistentjojo
17 күн бұрын
People just want something new and novel. Then one day you find yourself comparing a caliber meant to match the .357 in semiauto, but someone wanted that caliber in a revolver, and buy a new revolver just for the new caliber that was designed for non-revolvers.
@GunSam
17 күн бұрын
The 10mm is more efficient regardless. Even if the exterior and terminal ballistics are similar, you still have less recoil with the 10mm, less sound, less blast. People want to often say something is dumb because of nothing more than because it's not purely made for that, when they are overlooking all the positive aspects of it.
@paraconsistentjojo
16 күн бұрын
@@GunSamHonestly I think those conclusions were a bit biased based on the above factors mentioned.
@paraconsistentjojo
16 күн бұрын
I suppose you could be just not using a true 10mm.
@livincincy4498
22 күн бұрын
It always is interesting how some of the cartridges will have a fire ball out of the (6).
@painmt651
22 күн бұрын
The fireball out of sbr .556 is awesome! I saw a 2 foot muzzle flash from a Saint AR 10” bbl
@duaneridings6591
22 күн бұрын
great video Sam
@user-wo2iw3kt8o
21 күн бұрын
Gun Sam i heard about bullet creep in auto ammo in revolvers. I watched a guy run loaded ammo through a sizeing die without the expander. Cind of like a taper crimp on my paper patch sharp ammo
@matthewhendrickson1575
21 күн бұрын
Thank you for the work you put into these videos I really enjoy them. I’d like to ask what holster you’re using and if a 4” 29 would fit? My dad past a few years back and now mom is letting me pick and choose. I got one of the Triple K job but you almost need a hammer to get that 29 in it. I was thinking about modifying it if nothing else. Thanks for you time.
@GunSam
21 күн бұрын
What I have been using specifically is the Desantis thumb break leather holster that is made for the L frame 686 and GP100. I been holstering the 610 N frame in there, but I haven't actually tried to snap the strap closed to see if it fits that properly. I would imagine Desantis makes ones specifically for the N frame.
@brandiwynter
22 күн бұрын
It's really disingenuous to test ammunition in barrels longer than average just to fluff your box numbers. It's disappointing that Underwood would do this kind of thing. That's what I like about Buffalo Bore, they test with multiple barrel lengths and show the velocity for each one on their website.
@GunSam
22 күн бұрын
Yeah, I like how Buffalo Bore shows multiple firearms. Not only is this more realistic, but often times different brands of guns tend to shoot faster or slower, such as S&W tends to shoot a tad faster than a Colt or Ruger barrel by a tad, so it's not difficult to calculate about how much velocity you will get in your own gun. I would say 75% of the time, my 4" 686 is a tad faster than their 4" 686 mt gun they use. Even in their semi autos, I can't count the times they list like maybe 1,000 FPS for a .45 ACP from a 5" barrel and I get like 1,030 FPS from my 5.3" Glock. Their rated velocities always make sense.
@sl3015
22 күн бұрын
Do you not think it’s rated out of a 6” barrel? 1st or 2nd most coming length for 357 🤷♂️
@brandiwynter
22 күн бұрын
@@sl3015 The most common barrel length is 4" and has been for a long time. It hasn't been 6" since probably the 1960 or 70's, hence my comment. The second most common is probably 3" now as well.
@357mag84
21 күн бұрын
@@sl3015 Their .357 mag is tested with a 6 inch
@LibertysetsquareJack
21 күн бұрын
@@sl3015I've emailed inquiries to Underwood multiple times, as well as utilized their "Questions" widget on the pages for the respective cartridges, and as @357mag84 states, Underwood reports that they use a 6" barrel. I would like to add that they use 6" barrel for other revolver cartridges as well. Underwood doesn't seem to like telling what revolver that barrel is actually mounted to, however. For 10mm Auto, Underwood says that they use a Colt Gold Cup, 5" barrel. Anyway, I agree that Buffalo Bore does a much better job in this area, using multiple firearms of various make and barrel lengths, and putting all of that right up front on the product page. Double Tap and Garrett Cartridges are great at providing such data as well.
@jerrystott7780
22 күн бұрын
The factory test firearm is usually a barrel without the gap between cylinder and barrel. That accounts for some of the difference. Have a great day.
@GunSam
22 күн бұрын
Most of the time I have seen test barrels used they say "V" on them, like 4" V etc. That indicates that the test barrel has a gap to simulate a revolver cylinder gap.
@mikereinhardt4807
22 күн бұрын
Enjoyed the video, always liked both. The 10mm and the 357. Anyone who uses a pistol for baer is selling themselves short. Look at what baer hunting guides carry to protect clients should a bear attack...
@mopesrus7266
22 күн бұрын
Short barreled shotty with slugs
@CrashRacknShoot
22 күн бұрын
To be fair, it's different if you're a guide looking for action as opposed to a hiker in the woods. Yes, they both have a chance of encounter, but one of them isn't running a business and is looking to save weight. Either way, I'm with ya, prepare for what may come.
@guaporeturns9472
22 күн бұрын
I use a pistol for bear protection. I’m still here , 3 bears aren’t. Bears aren’t the armor plated D-9 Cat everyone like to say they are.
@guaporeturns9472
22 күн бұрын
I use a pistol for bear protection. I’m still here , 3 bears aren’t. Bears aren’t the armor plated D-9 Cat everyone like to say they are.
@guaporeturns9472
22 күн бұрын
I use a pistol for bear protection. I’m still here , 3 bears aren’t. Bears aren’t the armor plated D-9 Cat everyone like to say they are.
@TheGrebnaws
22 күн бұрын
I have stashed boxes of Underwood for my ccw but I will revist my choice when they run out. We all know a 2-3" barrel revolver won't match the stated velocities but it should be ~50fps less, not hundreds.
@williamsoutherland9087
20 күн бұрын
Auto cartridges are not roll crimped because they headspace on the rim.
@mattpatterson9128
18 күн бұрын
I was Wondering, What do you do with your Brass? Do you do Reloads? Ammo Costs are outrageous now.
@stevehenry7707
22 күн бұрын
So do a 220 hardcase ten vs a 180 hardcast .357
@GunSam
22 күн бұрын
I will at some point, with a 255 gr .44 Mag in the mix
@Kelly-oq9nh
22 күн бұрын
@@GunSamOh my
@johnnymccann5607
22 күн бұрын
I done reloading testing for 38special and 357mag off and on I guess 40 years. the 38special 3ib model 10 pistols were failures for me with xtp.357 xtp did acceptable but I find constantly sjhp of federal, speer, Remington and afew outhers gives me the best expansion. But I haven't tried any solid copper hp yet. Three 9mm pistols I reload for I've tested 357dia bullets and get wonderful expansion but you can load 9mm hotter . loading 357 dia and 355 dia xtp, different weights say 38 125 gr xtp and 355dia 124gr xtp got about equal expansion as outher close weight xtp. carry loads for two Taurus g2c pistols is Remington 110 357dia sjhp. they work flawlessly and accurately with wonderful expansion in. Just thought I would share this information as the cost of ammunition and reloading supplies and availability and some 9mm pistols will shoot 357dia I see the market to get much worse and at least us reloaders have options. enjoyed the video as always. papa wishing you well 😊
@StevenMMan
21 күн бұрын
This may seem like an unusual request but... is it possible for you to get me a measurement of the cylinder length?. I now own a Ruger super redhawk in 10mm that has a lot of cylinder length. I have some specific project idea for this revolver. Mountain man
@flyinryan7340
11 күн бұрын
With your extensive experience, do you tend to have a preference between Underwood or Buffalo Bore ammo? I've noticed that Underwood seems to be considerably less expensive for seemingly the same product
@GunSam
11 күн бұрын
When it comes to semi auto cartridges, Buffalo Bore and Underwood are basically the same product, so you save some money. With revolver cartridges though, hands down Buffalo Bore is better. For instance, both companies load a 125 gr XTP .357 Mag, and in my 4" 686 often the Underwood .357 Mag is roughly running at 1,450 FPS, while the Buffalo Bore version easily goes over 1,600 FPS. The same can be said for most revolver cartridges between Buffalo Bore and Underwood. So the short answer is Underwood for semi auto cartridges, Buffalo Bore for revolver cartridges.
@user-wo2iw3kt8o
21 күн бұрын
Gun Sam how do you compare a 10 aginst a 44mag. Ive never fired a 10 mm. My semi auto is a 45 acp. Which i love too. The 10 on this video looked pretty stout. 😊
@knobjob2839
10 күн бұрын
The only way to get real .357 is to make it yourself. I'd love to see you hand load some 158gr going 1550fps so we can see what the .357 is really all about.
@Jaycv-dq3rg
22 күн бұрын
Hey Sam grizzly cartridge has some hot loads that get box stated velocity I have notice ever since 2019 Underwood has Ben down loaded velocity I don't buy Underwood anymore I buy grizzly cartridge and grizzly cartridge gives free shipping
@williamsavageii9569
9 күн бұрын
Looks like .357 magnum WINS HANDS DOWN! Leave the 10mm for the auto buoys!
@user-zc4sf5qi3o
22 күн бұрын
Check that at anything over 4 inches....the 357 dominates. Mags are rifle rounds, almost doulbling their short barrel fps. The 10 mm is better with barrels of 3' or less.
@marcohandy67
22 күн бұрын
I would choice BB #19D or UW #231 for EDC in urban/suburbs. (125gr jhp vs 135gr jhp)
@chrisbottari5410
22 күн бұрын
I carry the 19d in a 640 j frame at work and a 686+ when not at work. Its my favorite ammo by far. And man does it kick out of the j frame haha
@marcohandy67
21 күн бұрын
@@chrisbottari5410 ..same here 640Pro, Chiappa Rhino 200D
@ggrandcz
22 күн бұрын
Have you compared creep on 357 and 10mm ? Bcs I just did it on 357 and I saw some movement in 2" 357 Taurus. It is nice to see results in 10mm but what if 357 is no better?
@GunSam
22 күн бұрын
In all the years of doing this, randomly looking at leftover rounds in a 6 shot revolver after 5 rounds over the chronograph, I have never seen a creeped out revolver round except on a Remington Golden Saber, which doesn't use a roll crimp.
@edwardbiasi37
22 күн бұрын
Great video! Any one of those will do fine. The deer or bear wouldn't know the difference
@alananderson5929
22 күн бұрын
We always wondered and now….thanks bud sf🇺🇸
@jcnikoley
21 күн бұрын
"Test barrels" that are used to test fps listed on the box are not revolvers, no cylinder gap. You'll likely see a loss of fps shooting from a revolver.
@GunSam
21 күн бұрын
I'm sure the term 4" V or 8" V that most companies list, which indicates V (vented) that is the standard for revolver cartridge testing, specifically to create a cylinder gap, is just something they made up. lol. Do research before you post nonsense.
@jcnikoley
21 күн бұрын
@@GunSam not a single box of the dozens I have has a "V" listed anywhere on it, and can't find that anywhere in reloading data off or on manufacturers website. The test barrels I have seen are not vented. No need to be a dick in your replies. You can inform without sounding like a Cunt. Unsubbed.
@CyborgZeta
22 күн бұрын
I like 10mm because it has good power, but less recoil (for me) than .357 Mag.
@alfasierra254
21 күн бұрын
I'm leaving this question here hoping someone knowledgeable can answer it for me. I bought a case of cci Blazer 9mm 124 and saw that it says: Do not fire on ported barrel or recoil compensated firearms. Why is that?
@kc0lif
22 күн бұрын
10mm beat the 357 magnum in your revolvers.
@burgundypoint
22 күн бұрын
Three fiddy seven is neutered in modern loads
@kpg-uo1tm
22 күн бұрын
FINALLY!!!!!
@willmorris8966
22 күн бұрын
I want to see the Glock 35 5.3 inch barrel with a 135 grain underwood or double tap ammo chrono. I wonder will the muzzle energy be over 710lbs
@GunSam
22 күн бұрын
I have the Glock 41 with 5.3" conversion barrel. I have ran 10mm ammo like that and been closer to 800 ft lbs energy.
@deplorableredneck4.02
21 күн бұрын
I trust the 357
@BanduTheGreat
22 күн бұрын
Have you gotten a chance to test out the 8 round .357 by Smith and Wesson?
@GunSam
22 күн бұрын
No
@Gieszkanne
22 күн бұрын
So for bear protection 357 Mag might be even better than 10mm?
@GunSam
22 күн бұрын
Personally, I think yes. In revolvers, I think the 180 gr Buffalo Bore .357 Mag VS an Underwood or Buffalo Bore 10mm 220 gr hard cast, would net similar energy, but in a semi auto those type of rounds are rarely reliable even if lighter 10mm runs reliably. The fact that more .357 Magnum revolvers and more hard cast .357 Mag ammo exists, this qualifies the answer as "yes" despite both being sort of equal in revolvers.
@curtisoverstreet7471
22 күн бұрын
Hey Sam! I'm just curious as to what state you live in?
@El_Peto
22 күн бұрын
I think it's Ohio
@Hoodyhoo2121
22 күн бұрын
Underwood makes terrible 357 mag. Buffalo Boar is far better.
@El_Peto
22 күн бұрын
Those Buffalo Pigs are something else
@GunSam
22 күн бұрын
@@El_Peto Oink oink. Need good big bore for boar.
@josephpepper3087
22 күн бұрын
My experience with 10mm auto's wasn't good, either, including with a G20. Oh they're fine with milder big-company ammo, but run the hot stuff and the malfunctions start. I chased with different recoil springs, etc. but i couldn't trust it. I noticed others had similar issues. I read good things about the FN10, though. But i carry a .40 M&P and if i want more power in a handgun I'll choose a revolver.
@GunSam
22 күн бұрын
I do basically the same thing. Carry an M&P 40 in my vehicle as my 'main' gun. Now for on body I carry smaller, but I feel like about as high as you can go and stay reliable, that's where the .40 S&W shines.
@josephpepper3087
22 күн бұрын
@@GunSam I belt carry an M&P 2.0 .40 & now have a 5" 2.0 .40 i need to vet / practice with then I'll carry that while the Compact slide goes for an optic cut / optic. Then I can really compare which of the two works best for my CC situation.
@GunSam
22 күн бұрын
@@josephpepper3087 I got the 5" FDE M&P 40. It's been very reliable. I have had an occasional hangup, malfunction, but it's like one in a thousand, it's always and ammo issue when it does. I have had the 5" M&P 9 for 3 years, shot thousands of HP ammo through it including +P+ and to this date, zero malfunctions, so the build quality and design of the M&P is top notch.
@josephpepper3087
22 күн бұрын
@@GunSam mine is also the FDE but I removed the safety levers and got the plugs from S&W. I might get a threaded barrel and suppressor for the compact .40 after the optic goes on. I'll need a .45 suppressor can, though. I've only got one for 9mm.
@chrisgabbert658
22 күн бұрын
👍😊
@tommcqueen3145
22 күн бұрын
👍👍
@raulduke6105
21 күн бұрын
Try to find ammo for a 10mm
@GunSam
21 күн бұрын
Not sure why you are saying that. Try to find ammo for a 10mm? Okay. And done.
@jar6588
22 күн бұрын
Both can take down a bear 😁🍺🇺🇸
@Steamrunner
22 күн бұрын
Why would Underwood not load the advertised ballistics for a 4-inch 357-Magnum? Do they have some strange belief the only ones carrying a 357-Magnum revolver only carry 6+ inches? Or do they think those same people are all weak wristed retirees who will snap bones if proper power is placed within the cylinder? This is as annoying as those companies who load 10mm to 40S&W specs or make a 38 Special +P cartridge that is weaker than "normal" loadings.
@GunSam
22 күн бұрын
Underwood has always loaded revolver cartridges to average levels and then make high claims. Their semi auto cartridges often are loaded realistically with realistic velocity ratings. I don't really know why they do this, but to me I think they just don't use very good magnum powder for their revolver cartridges so this is why they never do that well.
@DinoNucci
22 күн бұрын
PizzA
@aaronwilcox6417
22 күн бұрын
Agree with your acessment on 10mm being unreliable in pistols. I've yet to witness a 10mm pistol with high performance load be reliable. Your right about the 357 and 44 maybe being more practical. An 8 shot N-frame 357 is a good bit of capacity.
@birdatkinson1
21 күн бұрын
You can all the power, but if you can't consistently hit your target then it's useless.
@GunSam
20 күн бұрын
huh?
@birdatkinson1
20 күн бұрын
@@GunSam It just appears that the auto loading rounds do not seem to be as accurate as the traditional revolver ammo. From what I have observed during your tests.
@brianklamer3328
22 күн бұрын
I've watched numerous videos of 357 vs 10 mm, and I couldn't justify the cost of the 10 mm pistol and the high ammo costs. Buffalo Bore loads old school full power .357 to the original SAAMI spec that will do the job. Need more power, get a .44 magnum or larger. Thanks for the video.
@GunSam
22 күн бұрын
I could see not wanting to get a 10mm pistol, but high cost of ammo? I have bought a bit of 10mm and .357 Mag ammo, and the 10mm is always less expensive, everywhere I have purchased it from with comparable round counts.
@brianklamer3328
22 күн бұрын
@@GunSam Maybe 10 mm sells better where you are, but there is a lack of defense or game loads .357 where I live, fortunately I have plenty purchased when it was cheap. Snipers on our local police department really hoot about the 10mm though, but then again, they are half my age. Thanks
@kennethferguson4283
22 күн бұрын
The G31 357 Sig loaded with Underwood 125gr rounds which gets a true1500 fps equals the "hot 10mm" in sectional density and has 100 fps more velocity. A 357 Sig would have likely performed better than the 10mm in this comparison.
@somebloke13
22 күн бұрын
Love the channel mate, and would be thrilled to watch a test of the original "Man Stopper", the .455 Webley revolver. It's a big ask I know, but if you could beg/steal/borrow a .455 and some man stopper ammo, it would be great to see how it got it's reputation. Fingers crossed...
@GunSam
22 күн бұрын
There's not really any way for me to access a firearm like that. I don't know of anyone with one, and it's complicated where I live to borrow handguns when they are shipped to the gun dealer, as I am required to register it to myself even if i'm just borrowing it.
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