Claudio has an additional 12f punisher in STB 4,2. It wall splats and does 45(!) damage with the same range as 4,3 (2,19) so it should probably be somewhere in the top 3 punishers.
@yusufbukhari6962
3 ай бұрын
I was about to mention that so well. It's also a counterhit launcher and a projectile
@keyrussell6057
3 ай бұрын
Imo Claudio’s 12f punish game is some of the best in the game. STB 4,2 is an insane 12f and f 2,2 giving starburst makes punishing a -12 move properly feel so good in either situation.
@Mikaaaaayswan
3 ай бұрын
Hi sorry I am pretty new to tekken and only tried 2 characters so far. But what's STB?
@WpgLeader
3 ай бұрын
STB is a shortening of Starburst which is a buff that Claudio gains after landing certain attacks such as running 2 and f2,2. Starburst buffs some of Claudios attacks and is unlimited during heat. db1+2 is probably the best Starburst attack since it is a 18f safe mid launcher that high crushes. @@Mikaaaaayswan
@WpgLeader
3 ай бұрын
Also, Claudio is great for beginners due to his simple but effective move set. His lows and mixups are pretty weak so he forces you to play with timing, spacing, and movement which is a good skillset to have in t8 @@Mikaaaaayswan
@raskkii
3 ай бұрын
I feel like Nina's db+1+2 deserves a mention here. 11f punisher with pretty good range and it's also a heat engager
@joreass6150
3 ай бұрын
came here to type the exact same thing
@martikolmartikolz8924
3 ай бұрын
I like this channel cause it sounds like I'm watching a true crime video with the voice. Also, you forgot to compare Lee's Acid rain and 444 in the last part.
@yllifazlija1811
3 ай бұрын
since he put lee in "OP" tier in the final list, it's fair to assume he took acid rain into account.
@djangotur0910
3 ай бұрын
Ninas i11-punisher, db1+2, is arguably better than her i12. Its less damage on its own, but its a heat engager, gives absurd damage after a heatdash and it wallsplats.
@ZaoJin
3 ай бұрын
Jack also has 23, which is i11, +5 on hit, less damage than 11 but more consistent at range
@BATMAjiN
2 ай бұрын
Great approach man! What you do is really GOLD! In this specific video, the only thing I don't agree to is the underestimation of wall spatting. This is the tiniest-map-tekken ever and the possibility to wall splat at -12 is crucial in my opinion, raising the damage from ~30 to over 70 in some cases. Since the probability to have a wall behind is relatively high and the probability of being -12 is pretty sick, mathematically speaking I think you should ponderate it more in the final tier list. Let me give an easy example coming from the 2 extreme "tiers": Highest tier King has 33 dmg in ANY case 100%, no wall splat, no oki, no mixups. So his EXPECTED dmg is of course 33; Lowest tier Asuka has 25 on normal conditions, but with a wall splat is easily 61, with no execution at all. Considering a 25% probability (I think 1 every 4 is kinda realistic in this Tekken) of having a wall behind your opponent, the EXPECTED damage raise to 25*0.75+61*0.25=34 taking her damage above the first "tier" and we are not even considering the free mixups and other exotic variations. Of course this is a scholastic example to express the concept, but I think it's kinda representative of how much the tier changes from raw damage to the expected one, which is the real deal in game design. Anyway, I REALLY appreciate your job, I can understand how much work there is behind this and I literally LOVE the data driven approach you have! By far the best tekken pro content I've ever seen! Thank you so much!
@SuccessfulMentality94
3 ай бұрын
Great vid as usual. Only issue is that the 12f punish shown for Lars was f2,1 and marked as “2,1”
@gateofbabylon9177
3 ай бұрын
was gonna add this in as a Lars player myself. Wrong move shown in the video
@MacAves
3 ай бұрын
Lee player here! The combo at 4:19 is all guaranteed, yes, but you can also actually get a Blazing Kick after the HMS u4 for an extra 4 damage (I think?), and if they get up the wrong way it can full launch too!
@doppe7186
3 ай бұрын
Omg macaves plays tekken😮
@MishimaComplex
3 ай бұрын
Appreciate the info! Will update my data 🙏
@MacAves
3 ай бұрын
@@MishimaComplex New patch killed it don't bother now lol
@Link990_BR
Ай бұрын
Lee main here, just clarifying that HMS uf4 isn't guaranteed (it used to be prior to the 1.05 patch) Best high damaging option you'd have after punishing with 4,4:4 into heat dash is d,db4 (Blazing Kick), but it can be inconsistent, so you'd usually opt for ub3 which is easier but also deals good damage Keep up with those videos, the training drill ones have been my favorites!
@hzqaj
3 ай бұрын
hey i have a great video idea. its about heat activation for each character and what moves unlocked during it. what to be aware of during each character's heat and all that. love all your videos man and i hope you see this!
@notyourbaby4978
3 ай бұрын
Another quality video. Give this man a raise! He needs more subscribers and supporters.
@doppe7186
3 ай бұрын
Hwo also has 44 which does slightly less than 43 but leave him in rfs which has amazing mixups
@MrArso99
3 ай бұрын
excellent content as always. i would had another data. How safe it is on block. We are not always aware whenever to 12F or 10F punish, so having that ranking could be cool. For example let's take Nina. She has B1, 4 -12 on block and B2,2 -6 on block and 4 damage less. You can extend b2,2,2 and be -9 on block but is duckable. So for Nina, if you are sure about your punish, go with b1,4, if you are not b2,2
@ChayBenji
3 ай бұрын
For Juns i12 punish, you should know that you can get 2,1,4,2 with the last hit being garunteed to be blocked or counterhit, and that move chips, so essentially the damage should be added to the punish.
@MishimaComplex
3 ай бұрын
Thanks for the info! 🙏
@Pipboy3000
3 ай бұрын
Claudio's 4,2 with starburst is pretty absurd. 45 raw dmg with a wall splat. At the wall you can get ~80 dmg with oki
@JadenDaJedi
3 ай бұрын
I think Raven's post-hit situation is actually up there with Steve or Asuka. It may be only +8, but it leaves Raven in back-turn, and the forward momentum puts him right next to the opponent. This has some interesting implications: 1. BT 1 is 8f, so while it is +8 you can interrupt as if it were +10. 2. You can frametrap with BT.b2,4, a safe jailing mid-high. This complements the fact that... 3. You can frametrap with BT.f4, a shocking -9 low, allowing raven to parry after, or follow up with f4,1 to be -9 and forward-facing (albeit the 1 is a high). 4. You can fish for a G-clef with BT.2,2,1, which is even -3 on block in heat. 5. You can use all these frametrap options for mental frames and extend into some of Raven's other terrifying BT mixups, e.g. f,f3 power mid vs f,f3+4 launching low with very similar startup and animations. 6. The follow-up situation after this vortex is great and allows for more mixups, especially as the lows lead to either knockdown or Soulzone at advantage. All-in-all, I think Raven's post-12-punish situation is an exceptional tool for getting Raven's main reward state going, and the opponent is at a serious disadvantage after it.
@Dyleniz
3 ай бұрын
Another Lee W his standing punishment is god teir
@assassinonprozac
3 ай бұрын
Except 12 frame, technically. While Magic 4 is one of the best 12 frame punishes in the game it’s i11, Lee’s actual 12 frame punishes (D+4 and D/B+4) are hilariously garbage and easily the worst in the game, actively detrimental to use.
@sorataakihiko4875
3 ай бұрын
thx ofr the video! great info as always damn Asuka is really getting the short end of stick eh?... maybe i should pick up Lili instead >.>
@doppe7186
3 ай бұрын
Missed hwoarang 44 which does 28 damage and leaves him very plus in right flamingo stance
@Say_Irish_Wristwatch
3 ай бұрын
Yoshi can actually get a guaranteed dash into grounded f1+2 hit after his 2,1 in nss, making it very worth doing if you can execute it consistently. Also, while 1,1 and 2,1 in nss both wallsplat, 2,1 does so without taking you out of nss, allowing for a stronger wall conversion.
@MaakuS-53
3 ай бұрын
Extra bit about asuka’s: it is launch punishable on block- meaning don’t mess up that punish or you die
@treznorify
3 ай бұрын
I'd say another thing to take into consideration is how safe on block a punish is (of course, it doesn't matter if you actually use it as a punish, however - it maybe helpful to have a punish safe on block when you're trying to punish something that you can't, because you don't know everyone's frame data yet)
@BigLeafyTree
3 ай бұрын
I would have put Shaheen as a mention for using 10f instead of 12f. By using the 10f instead where possible you lose 4 damage but the situation is infinitely better unless you’re at the wall.
@Limaonyx
3 ай бұрын
Lili's best 10f punish is 1, 1 imo. It leads to her backturned mixup and has similar damage
@jclarke90
3 ай бұрын
Knockdowns are always better than a standing mixup
@TheicMoggy
3 ай бұрын
Jun's 214 also has a light extension with 2141 which deals chip damage. This is a mid and safe as well. You can delay the final hit to catch people off guard and the last hit may actually hit the opponent if they keep in mind that just doing 214 is minus on hit. 2143 extension is also viable in block situations too.
@MishimaComplex
3 ай бұрын
Great point! Thanks for the info, I'll update the data on my end for future reference :D
@neatnet6006
3 ай бұрын
I'm of the same opinion. However, being -9f when blocked is still a fatal weakness for a good rating. Considering that 10f punish does half the chip damage on its own, I don't think it is a solid alternative to 12f punish either. Except when Jun is in front of a wall.
@beshlawi
3 ай бұрын
Yoshi NSS 2,1 has dash f+1+2 guaranteed after btw.... also, I suggest that you add "safety" as a measure
@MultiAwesomered
3 ай бұрын
Steves 2,1 into stance gives +13 on hit for one or two less damage and the same range.
@pocketoniofficial
3 ай бұрын
Btw b4 on feng at range 0 comes out at 12 frames. He doesn't have a true 12 frame punish but it will still punish 12 frames in certain situations
@tabkg5802
3 ай бұрын
Other great thing about Jin b1-2 is that its easily hit confirmable, which saves you in case you fail with punish timing and makes it a decent thing to throw out in neutral/offense
@Dr.Happy11
3 ай бұрын
that shit should've never been hit-confirmable or even delayable to begin with 💀
@tabkg5802
3 ай бұрын
@@Dr.Happy11 cry about it lmfao
@Dr.Happy11
3 ай бұрын
@@tabkg5802 fair point mlao
@EricSamaNYC
Ай бұрын
Leo’s UF2,1 is 12 frames and knocks down, iirc it can also wall splat.
@akashpanigrahi8679
3 ай бұрын
Reina 1+2 is really good. Only minus 10 and wall splats; though the range is a bit underwhelming..
@IAmEnormous
3 ай бұрын
You all laugh at Bryan's punishment now, but once we get to i14 we'll see who has the last laugh!
@IWantToStayAtYourHouse
3 ай бұрын
4:22 after 44n4 heat dash, you can do HMS uf4 -> d,db4 (blazing kick). Its kinda hard to execute but its really good because it can launch the opponent if they press any button
@toktar00
3 ай бұрын
Being a Bryan main, the 10 frame and 12 frame tier list really show how hard it actually is to switch to Bryan from a character with generics and easier executable punishes. But I can't wait for the 13,14,15 frame tier lists, just to see that Bryan is still not top tier cause of execution barrier
@ChristopherWaddelow
3 ай бұрын
Bryan's punishes really aren't that hard 🤔🤔🤔 4,3 and 2,4 or 2,3 are just as basic as anyone else
@TheUnique69able
3 ай бұрын
You should’ve also taken into account consistency. Devil Jin’s b1,2 doesn’t connect if used at an angle.
@stan_tk
3 ай бұрын
For Alisa there is no much sense to use i12 for the punish outside of the wall (for wallsplat) and damage. i10 (1,1) gives 23 damage, leaves oppo up close with +5 and you have a free transition to DES (stance) for the mixup.
@floridaman7206
3 ай бұрын
Yeah no real reason to do Jun’s 12f unless you want to close out the round with it. Her 10f is just much better do 1,1 into izumo or side step into ss4 if you think they’ll duck. Or just use uf1 for total damage. Also with Kazuya b1,2 is unsafe on block. Idk how many other characters have that on their 11/12f punishers but that is important to keep in mind. If you’re slow on the punish or wrong you’ll eat a small punish
@Tekkenandgaming
3 ай бұрын
On a side note, game has insane input problems…. Anybody notice that? I lethally can’t get up on the ground mashing 1 when it’s not even lagging
@IWantToStayAtYourHouse
3 ай бұрын
Lee's 4,4 n 4 is a 11f heat engager so imo its the best one. it also wall splats too
@cheeseman1223
3 ай бұрын
What about Kazuya's 1+2? Isn't his 1+2 12f as well?
@Elivanse
3 ай бұрын
So is Jin's 1+2.
@jakeganong9531
3 ай бұрын
@@Elivanse Jin 1+2 is i13
@squiddyseut6103
3 ай бұрын
@@jakeganong9531wtf when did they change it? I could have sworn it was i12 on launch
@x3xicex3x
3 ай бұрын
Asuka's 12 frame is launch punishable... Im surprise not many players know this
@majones117
3 ай бұрын
I do really hate the knock back on Shaheens. Its great other than that
@kristianresh1794
3 ай бұрын
Lars fnb(or bnf I forgot)2,1? Gives you a combo though no?
@Flay10
3 ай бұрын
That's a 14f punisher
@W_smith1990
3 ай бұрын
These videos are so helpful
@folivora6628
3 ай бұрын
Yoshimitsu nss 2-1 grants him dash in f1+2 for like 50 dmg
@nothinghere7694
3 ай бұрын
Best tekken content
@kenanisrael9323
3 ай бұрын
I have trouble doing lees just frame and I have him at mighty ruler.
@Yorsem
3 ай бұрын
I think Law gets the most damage off of i12 punish into wallsplat.
@patrickmurphy3601
3 ай бұрын
For Leo, 2,2 is pretty trash and you should 1,4 to go into KNK at +13 I believe.
@EraseTime
3 ай бұрын
Starburst is STB not SB Peekaboo is PAB not PBK
@ThePamfi
3 ай бұрын
Not having to think about doing the 12 frame punish is not good, it's godlike. Think how about it: you alway punish with the correct move and you never have to think about other moves.
@Eriedu
3 ай бұрын
Kazuya's 1+2 mid mid 12 F and it wall splats.
@cosmedcarton
3 ай бұрын
Zafina has the worst 12f punish, her d1 is a 12f long range mid poke, it's negative on hit, it's only used against -12 moves with pushback.
@zombecreative
3 ай бұрын
Zafina has d1, isn’t that 12f?
@StasionSpasski
3 ай бұрын
Kazuya’s 1+2 was not mentioned. Despite having limited range, it has guaranteed ff4 follow up which requires strong execution. 42 damage into oki is insane
@squiddyseut6103
3 ай бұрын
It in fact does not guarantee ff4. b1,2 is pretty much better in every situation except range
@StasionSpasski
20 күн бұрын
@@squiddyseut6103Oh, where does this claim come from? It is guaranteed but very strict and a little bit character dependent.
@squiddyseut6103
20 күн бұрын
@@StasionSpasski i had never anticipated this to be a thing because nobody talked about it and i expected it to be techable, but it turns out i was just wrong. Thank you for standing your ground because i would not have known about this otherwise
@yak3382
3 ай бұрын
I know but it's hard getting rid of 1,1,2f... 😂
@Eliot9999999999
3 ай бұрын
nice
@djnutsh.m.m6611
3 ай бұрын
Fucking up tekken 8
@kingatowning
3 ай бұрын
Buff hwoarang 😢
@abrahamalviarez5870
3 ай бұрын
alisa punisher is TOP MEGA GOD TIER, that thing on block creates spacing, and hit, it's a lot of dmg + knock down
@Kovar99YT
3 ай бұрын
ahhh yes another video where asuka is at the bottom of the barrel, yet when i tell people asuka has some of the worst frame punishes in game they do not believe me..........
@jevonsw1
3 ай бұрын
This is such invaluable data. This is the only game I plan to play for foreseeable future. You’re writing textbook level analysis. I’m proud of your dedication.
@Excelegance
3 ай бұрын
Lee Chaolan is excellent when it comes to punishment, the man has everything you need. 🌹
@nebby9751
3 ай бұрын
I'm surprised Nina ended up with a D rank in the final table. B+1,4 has slightly above average range and high damage. Good frames but sadly has a little too much pushback to be super aggressive afterwards. B+2,2 is weaker but gives you much more aggressive positioning for grab mix ups etc And most of all, d/b+1+2 is a heat engager. Just like Lee, she can punish -11 moves absurdly hard when she's in Heat. D/b+1+2 -> charged f,f+1+2 is over 50 damage, its really strong. She absolutely doesn't belong in the same tier as Xiaoyu, Feng and Asuka 😅
@zoroasper9759
3 ай бұрын
As an Asuka player I am more aware of when something is -12 or -13 then when it is -10; you NEED to make sure your punishment is on point playing Asuka One more thing about her i12 punish; you better make sure that you're not late with it as 2,3 is -17 on block, for whatever reason
@sorataakihiko4875
3 ай бұрын
T^T wait until we get to i14 punishers! but seriously i really feel like i could make people regret moves if our punishers were better :/
@naorhh1
3 ай бұрын
Asuka main here Totally agree
@herpderp4078
3 ай бұрын
@@sorataakihiko4875 the only i14 i care about is jet upper
@sorataakihiko4875
3 ай бұрын
@@herpderp4078 fair enough xD
@JunTheDude32
3 ай бұрын
Asuka is designed to counter mash. Not block and punish. Be glad she has an i10 at all because from a design standpoint she shouldn't get one
@arxeha
3 ай бұрын
ohh so thats why its very hard for me to properly punish ppl using Alisa... the range is actual doodoo
@rasaa7227
3 ай бұрын
Nina's db1+2 should be mentioned. It's i11, has amazing range, 27 dmg into heat/wallsplats, and when in heat nets her 53 dmg. When you reach i15 punish Nina should be OP tier lol. Her b1+4 has great range, launches crouching opponents, and her max juggle damage ftom it without heat, walls, rage or any resources or stage interactions in open space is 97 dmg. I doubt anyone comes close at i15.
@iamkasaii8792
3 ай бұрын
As a Nina player totally surprised you did not mention db12
@Jed4YIL
3 ай бұрын
I would say going for victor's 12f punisher instead of the 10f punisher is pretty significant. On top of dealing more damage, it goes into IA which is very good and is otherwise hard to access in pure neutral. So doing the right punish helps you accessing IA more often which circonvent victor's linearity and lack of mixups.
@sharma4826
3 ай бұрын
The 333, isn’t the shot blockable? Didn’t know the whole thing is a natural combo.
@strayzzfaxz6740
3 ай бұрын
@@sharma4826The 3 button is Eddy's thing. Victor owns the 2 button.
@ragnarok7452
3 ай бұрын
Ah vic2or.
@Jed4YIL
3 ай бұрын
@@sharma4826the shot isn't blockable once you get hit by the first hits, no.
@Léopart_le_jaguar
3 ай бұрын
Your work on theses data is just priceless Thank you !
@Nerevaar
3 ай бұрын
Isn't Hwoarang 4,3 +5?
@sesujin
3 ай бұрын
7:30 Yoshi's NSS 2,1 gives f1+2 guaranteed, effectively making it a 53 damage i11 punish (+ a heat engager if they stand up). Also, in regards to Alisa, while 2,2 does in theory wallsplat, its range is so small that it almost never happens in a real game. I know it looks like it wallsplats from far away, but 99% of the time it will give a low wallsplat with no guaranteed followup, if anything. I've had opponents who have been right next to the wall and haven't been wallsplat by it. I find that 1,1 is just better as a i12 punish because it's more consistant and gives DES.
@JumbaJumby
3 ай бұрын
Shaheen's gives good damage and good range, but man it's such a bummer they removed wallsplat from it in this game. As a result his fastest wallsplat in this game in i14. I actually thought wallsplat removal was like a thing in this game until I tried other characters. The pseudo splat with the extra plus frames is cool, but like way way worse than getting a real wallsplat. And it just gives a complete return to neutral anywhere that's not the wall. His 10 frame punish is just straight up better if not at the wall since you get big plus frames in their face for only a little less damage. Much worse range tho. Not complaining though, they gave him so many new tools in this game it makes sense he'd have stuff taken away.
@Kekkai_
3 ай бұрын
Great analysis I'm liking this whole breakdown series but I'm confused as to why you seem to weigh range so high when we are talking about punishing. If it's used as a punish it's not missing 95% of the time, no? Imo situations should get ranked/weighted way higher than damage. Getting 10 more damage and getting left with a lame situation is 10x worse than knockdown or wall splat into more dmg into more oki. To me, if you stopped at 6:10 that's basically the tier list (possibly stage dependent).
@2134Leks
3 ай бұрын
7:01 sorry.. just time stamping for my reina practice wall combo lmaoo
@ACloudWithoutAir
3 ай бұрын
i think Lars isnt jailing on F2 on hit or block. so you might be able to duck the 2nd hit(4) automatically, idk, im at work, i couldnt say right now to check. I dont remember it being good at all in 7.
@Ozcaty
29 күн бұрын
Leo's is 11f but you gave it no bonus
@tek87
3 ай бұрын
6:05 You forgot Reina here but she would be in the top category.
@TTboi69
3 ай бұрын
so lili is quite literally the best character in the game? 😍
@pite9
3 ай бұрын
Yoshimitsu 2,2 get a free mixup and you can select between an offensive stance or dropping the sword. This is the best way to do that. And it's safe and 11f, making it a top tier poke as well.
@MishimaComplex
3 ай бұрын
Thanks for the info! Will update my data 🙏
@SkarjOS
3 ай бұрын
I think Shaheen's i10 might be better than his i12. i12 is more consistent and does +5 dmg, but the situation is basically neutral and his i10 gives +10 into stance which is terrifying
@ChristopherWaddelow
3 ай бұрын
As a Shaheen player, agreed
@2134Leks
3 ай бұрын
OMG a PUNISHMENT SERIES! you are the GOAT of tekken 8!! The ammount of work you put into your videos is CRAZY!!! thank you bro
@edgarustian3948
3 ай бұрын
Jack while not having the best frames can make those frames better +4 -> +8 when he changes stance to GMH. This leaves him with a lot of mixups he can do out of stance as well as choose not to do anything and even crouch or fade back from it. I think it could be a little better on the tier list but overall yeah it makes sense.
@MishimaComplex
3 ай бұрын
Thanks for the info! I'll update the data on my end for future reference :D
@edgarustian3948
3 ай бұрын
@@MishimaComplex Jack has multiple moves like that where entering stance improves the frame advantage. It's a cool mixup on my side but the opponent has to deal with casino slots with the amount of options I have
@Sadbringer
3 ай бұрын
Thing about Lee is people would go for 10f punish in the open instead of 11 or 12f one just because it is a guaranteed chunk of damage. Though the jab range is a bit lower than that of a 4,4:4 so in t8 you might wanna be cautious with that.
@damastah100
3 ай бұрын
Addendum on Zafina and Feng, since her heat smash is included here, Feng has Heat b1 > Shoulder because b1 doesn't need the counter hit during Heat so it becomes his optimal i10 to i12.
@Winterliche
3 ай бұрын
one thing to note here is yoshi's NSS 2,1 has a guaranteed NSS F1+2 followup (29 damage added on)
@souljasleet
3 ай бұрын
Jun’s 10F also walksplats unlike her 12F you do trade off the self damage
@maikkeli
3 ай бұрын
Jackhammer leads to gammahowl which is the whole point of using it!
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