I just hate how it just looks like a glamorization of suicide and mental health, especially from the graphic scenes. Suicide shouldn't be used as a weapon or revenge scheme. "ReALiStIc aS pOsSiBLe"
@SuperNuclearUnicorn
4 жыл бұрын
That is exactly what I came to the comments to say. While it honestly is kinda realistic that people would want to use suicide as revenge, to try and emotionally fuck up those who have hurt them they really shouldn't show that in media like this show did. Living well is the best revenge and suicide hurts more than just those who you want to get back at. The reason I'm still here and fighting is purely because I could never do that to my family. I could do it to myself but I can't leave them to deal with it
@phoebe4910
4 жыл бұрын
Dark Shadow Storm whilst I understand where you come from it doesn’t portray or show that in the show
@sgshaday
4 жыл бұрын
@Dark Shadow Storm Thing is... She didn't speak out. And yes this happens a lot. But it wasn't about being hears. The act itself was about erasing the pain. The hessitation there at times it was... It was not a healthy scene. But... Then we go to the tapes... While the suicide is about erasing pai and this feeling of trash and depression, the tapes were not. The tapes were meant not to put her voice out there as she directed these tapes to specific people - people that in some way or another hurt her or she thought they hurt her. And it ended up messing those kids up. Bad. That is more revenge oriented, blaming her death on these people she directed her tapes to and while some of the blame definately falls on them, she already had issues that lied within her. In the end, taking her life was her choice. Not theirs. But the show glorifies suicide as a way to tell your story. Now... To the numbers. I don't know how tied the suicides are to the show. But... Teenage boys and just boys overall... They've been under a constant stream of attacks from people who hate them because they were born male. The education system has been feeding into this for a while now. The rise on suicides... It was something that had been boiling before the show... And... It is heartbreaking.
@fabplays6559
4 жыл бұрын
Dark Shadow Storm But, she didn’t speak out. She killed herself and left messages as to why it was all their fault. How can you say that wasn’t about revenge? Just because they didn’t need to go public about it doesn’t mean being told they are the “reason” she killed herself wouldn’t have a severe impact on their mental health. She blamed them all for hurting her and thus wanted to hurt THEM with her death.
@fabplays6559
4 жыл бұрын
Dark Shadow Storm You don’t feel sympathy for them? Some of these people went through hard times too, and only hurt Hannah because they were peer-pressured, hurt themselves or were completely unaware they were hurting her. One of them even attempted suicide as a direct result of the tapes and gave himself permanent brain damage. And we’re not supposed to feel empathy for any of them? O-O You’ve got more worrying things on your hands of you can’t feel empathy for a bunch of teenagers getting tormented by a dead girl some of them didn’t really mean to hurt.
@inbal9743
4 жыл бұрын
the moment professionals told them against it, they should have listened...
@Xehanort10
4 жыл бұрын
The fact that the showrunners only had psychologists on so they could say they consulted them if they were ever criticised for wrongly portraying something is kind of sick if you think about it. They never intended to follow any of the advice they were given.
@bigpapamagoo8696
3 жыл бұрын
Exactly! The creators knew they had a tool to potentially help depressed teens and they chose to be dangerous and harmful instead. So irresponsible and selfish, one might even say evil.
@TheFourthWinchester
3 жыл бұрын
You do not need professionals to know what was wrong with this show. Anyway it was not even a good show storywise.
@cassiopeiagibson2959
5 жыл бұрын
I watched this show when it came out, and I was in a pretty good place. I had previously struggled with severe depression but I had reached a point where I thought I was perfectly fine, and thought I would watched the show because it was popular and I had heard about it, thinking it sounded interesting. I did not at all expect to be negatively impacted by watching it. However, several episodes into my binge of the show, I noticed that I felt sick to my stomach while watching it. After I actually finished the season, I was depressed again. I hadn’t really realized it during, but after the fact, I had basically relapsed into being suicidal. I legitimately wrote a suicide note and sat on my bed with a bottle of pills, I was so close to killing myself. This is why I cannot stand people saying this show is important because it brings attention to this issue, that we need to see the reality of it or whatever. It really does blatantly and grotesquely romanticize suicide and I was directly affected by it. I think if you haven’t struggled with this sort of thing before it’s difficult to actually understand how damaging this show is. I do agree that it’s important to talk about these sorts of topics but this was DEFINITELY not the way to do it.
@donnamitsuki281
4 жыл бұрын
Oh,dear. I'm so sorry that happened in your case,this is exactly what I was afraid of... I'm happy you didn't do it tho! I hope everything gets better!!
@crayildstudio6362
4 жыл бұрын
I’m incredibly sorry you had to experience that. The world is infinitely better with you in it, and I’m very, very glad you didn’t do it. Sending so much love ❤️
@sheremydandelion7249
4 жыл бұрын
I'm sorry for what you went through, I hope that you are better now. May you receive all the deserved love ! I would suggest you to watch Fruits Basket , It's an anime about all kinds of love, friendship, not giving up , second chances, and moving on, It has few triggers and serious themes like mention of and past bullying, depressions, solitude and such , but it's worth it! It's about a teen orphan girl who meet a misterious family and changes their life for the better with her positive outlook on life and her resilience to adversities even though she still suffers for the loss of someone dear to her . It's about life goes on
@dickdicky8314
3 жыл бұрын
Um never in my life thought I'd hear TV made me suicidal I'm sorry but if tv is enough to make you wanna off yourself don't ever watch TV
@AlmightySoul
3 жыл бұрын
@@dickdicky8314 What the actual fuck
@Tonii080
4 жыл бұрын
A good twist would've had that professional help her and none of the tapes and succide happened because she was just writing the reasons and imagining what would've happened.
@GameJeannie
4 жыл бұрын
This would have been perfect.
@VicenteTorresAliasVits
4 жыл бұрын
So basically "It was all a dream"? No, thank you.
@jocelynevences157
4 жыл бұрын
No, I think it would decrease the purpose of the book. Like to appreciate your life because its worth living.
@zak-of-all-trades9638
3 жыл бұрын
Or how about that she faked it and was alive the whole time? I was half-expecting her to jump out and scare them at one point, revealing that she had been recording their conversations and watching from a distance to take revenge on them, as they tried to make sense of what she did. It would have made a lot more sense contextually, as to how/why she was able to have such an impact over everyone in the school having been pronounced "dead". It's still potentially dangerous, I just think it would have been a more plausible ending than what we got.
@disturbingbliss1973
3 жыл бұрын
@@VicenteTorresAliasVits not really just what would the outcome be
@silversteinmma
5 жыл бұрын
It's a crappy, manipulative, one-trick-pony of a show, where the one trick is shock value.
@mistreme8341
4 жыл бұрын
Amen! I actually got more of a kick out of the Love, Simon Gay romances in it.
@tmntaddict
4 жыл бұрын
True, and yet this show got 4 seasons whereas I Am Not Okay With This got cancelled.
@Mathieu444
5 жыл бұрын
I don't get the "psychological trauma as entertainment" trend. It's really unhelpful.
@donnamitsuki281
4 жыл бұрын
Suicide is a serious subject. Suicide is something that shouldn't be done by anyone,believe me: people will miss you,you WILL leave a hole in someone's life,and it always gets better. People who say suicide is done by the strong or that they're angels going back home disgust me. Stop glamorizing it. *_Suicide should NOT be use as a weapon or threat. Suicide should NEVER be a revenge._* . . I have a friend,internet friend but friend nonetheless,she told me she considered suicide when she was around 13,but an ex-friend stopped her. Two years ago she had a really bad time,she started saying she was tired and wanted to give up. I *panicked* and got so *worried* over that,I sent message after message while crying my eyes out cause I didn't want to lose her,I wanted to prove I *cared* so much. She told me to calm down after like fifteen messages,she told me she was only going to sleep,and that she was sorry for worrying me that way. But she also thanked me. She thanked me for reminding her someone *_cared._* *I promise you. **_Someone always cares._*
@SammyLammy1D
3 жыл бұрын
The having someone who care is the main thing to prevent suicide. Every time I considered it, what stopped me was someone caring.
@krankmas
5 жыл бұрын
I originally had the view point that the first season was while pushed a few things too far (like showing the actual act of the suicide which was Hannah shallowing pills in the book instead of that gruesome death) it also showed how ugly and dark that stuff is. But I kinda lost that whole opinion when they decided to make a 2nd season for no reason other than money. They thought "hey... What's worst and more controversial than teenager bullying and suicide? Mass shootings?! Hell yeah let's do it!"
@AmandaTheJedi
5 жыл бұрын
Agreed for sure
@donnamitsuki281
4 жыл бұрын
Oh yeah I heard about that in season 2 I *yiked* out loud
@aenea7407
3 жыл бұрын
Yes, I have been in quite a dark place when the 1st season arrived and it did help me back then. Some scenes may have gone too far, but it somehow helped me realize, that you can´t just give up. Hannah´s solution came out as something that was not a solution really, and it just pushed my mentality towards "If you do it, it won´t make anything better." The second and especially third season turned out to be a money machine though, and by that time, it just lost it´s message and appeal to me.
@flubbajubb4958
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah the show was originally going to be a movie and then a miniseries (meaning it was only supposed to have the one season) and in the other three seasons you can definitely see it there
@muhib3035
5 жыл бұрын
I was going through a bad and depressing time last summers and as you mentioned, I too was more inclined towards sad music and TV shows so I watched both seasons. Honestly, it didn't have a negative affect on me, but the only problem I had with the show were it's excessive and unnecessary amount of graphic scenes.
@bellametallica
5 жыл бұрын
The graphic scenes are the best part though. I'm an extremely morbidly curious person.
@RicardoPierotti.
5 жыл бұрын
The biggest error of the show is that shows an incredible unrealistic approach on how ppl grief and mourn a person, and I can see how teenagers would fantasize with ppl mourning for them, depression is fucked up like that
@kijanailis
4 жыл бұрын
I'm a 47 year old and have struggled with depression and suicidal thoughts my whole life. I've reached out multiple times to people in my life and been dismissed. One stark example was when I told my ex-husband that I needed to talk to him and told him I was feeling suicidal...his response? "Whew! I thought you were gonna ask for a divorce!" That was obviously the end of that conversation. I recently reached out to not only my mother but also my best friend...just going through a really rough mental patch where I was struggling to not let myself sink back into a full blown depression. I was dismissed both times. I know they love me but it's incredibly hard to have a helpful, supportive conversation with people who don't understand depression. It's really hard to make yourself vulnerable by asking for help...you're exposing thoughts that never really see the light of day, and that's horrifying, but to take that chance and be blown off? It's like a baseball bat of awful feelings right to the face. That's why I usually keep it to myself...I put on a good front of happy and maybe that's why they don't know how to respond. But who wants to be around or listen to someone who is depressed? I don't like listening to me in my head for crying out loud! So if someone reaches out, and it may only be one sentence to test the waters, we're not asking you to fix anything, we're not asking for you to tell us how bad others have it and we should be grateful for what we have, we're not asking for you to commiserate by telling us how you know exactly what we're feeling cause you were depressed that one time, and we're not going to want to hear that we should be inspired to do/be better. Sometimes all we need is someone to listen to all the awful shit we're feeling (sometimes for no reason at all), and to give us a hug. Ask us if there's something tangible they can do with us or for us to lift our spirits and remind us that some moments are worth living for....anyway, sorry for the rant, I can clearly see I'm still not over the responses I received from my friends and family. Take care everyone, and take pleasure in the moments that make you happy and try to make more of them :)
@franciscoancer2618
4 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this message I will take pleasure in the moments that make me happy.
@heathers2581
4 жыл бұрын
I'm so sorry they've blown you off. Honestly, once of the healthiest coping mechanisms is basically to get the thoughts outside of your head, kind of like if you were to slap them on a canvas and take a step back to examine them. Oftentimes when you're able to get the dark, muddy thoughts out of your head, you can realize it's more manageable then it felt. People who you reach out to should listen so you can get those dark thoughts out, into the open, and thereby weakened. I'm sorry they haven't been listening to you.
@crayildstudio6362
4 жыл бұрын
That’s terrible, I’m so sorry. You should have someone that you are able to comfortably talk to about this stuff. A support system. I’m very sorry and sincerely hope you find one ❤️
@BlackCampariBlue
4 жыл бұрын
The book mentioned is by Goethe, one of the most famous german writers. He wrote a book about this guy called Werther, who falls in love and after his flame marries someone else commits suicide. After the book was published it gained a deal of popularity. It was also observed though that after the publication the amount of suicides increased drastically. The effect of this increase in suicides through media or other forms was hence called the "Werther-effect" (at least in Germany). It's nice to hear a fellow psychologist talk :) 13 reasons why holds dangerous ideas and depictions in many ways. But true - always stay cautious about the difference between correlation and causal effects! Thanks for pointing that out
@kyrahiggins7625
3 жыл бұрын
Not a psych major but appreciated this point so much. That was one of the biggest take aways I had from an introductory psychology class I took in college. It was the first time I was taught correlation does not equal causation. So many arguments and representation of data was broken down for me because I realized these supposed professionals and experts who were trying to use research for validating a standpoint were actually misrepresenting the data. It shocked me to see how often people use correlational research for making arguments about causation.
@yugoxgc
4 жыл бұрын
I feel like the show simply mishandles the core issues it wants to tackle. Claims to be intending to raise awareness but sensationalizing more than anything... Which is really bad. At its core you have a broken insecure girl thinking she doesn't matter & no one cares. She kills herself and EVERYTHING starts to revolve around her. That is not a patern you want to put out into the world
@caller145
5 жыл бұрын
She is actually quite toxic person. Blames everyone for her death, some of them for not a good reason at all. For example "you left me alone when I asked you to leave me alone." Yeah sure, sometimes it's hard to say that you need help and a lot of things that happened in the show would drive many people to suicide. However potraying this type of revenge suicide as a beautiful tragedy certainly might attract some people. In the show and in mainstream media in general suicide victims are made to be these innocent victims out of all blame and people around them should have went beyond their abilities to make them happy. Of corse suicidal people need help and support, as much as possible, but it's never the fault of anyone who thought "leave me alone" actually means "leave me alone" and not "please help me"
@tomoates8568
4 жыл бұрын
@Dark Shadow Storm No, she was toxic as hell. She even blamed Mr Porter who really did try to help her, she chose to storm out of his office as he was trying to talk to her. And somehow that's his fault because he didn't immediately chase her down? And a lot of the other reasons were ridiculous too, the show was horrible
@sgshaday
4 жыл бұрын
I agree... But... There is a deeper problem here. The Romantics glamorized the tragic heroes who at times committed suicide. It led to a ton of art... But now... This leads to suicide. The effect entertainment has on kids nowadays... Or can have - I am not saying that all suicides were tied to the show but that entertainment can have this impact in our lives shows a bit of a leap from reality and more of a stay in our escapism. Life then does imitate art. Tells a lot about how we've changed and our mental state as a society. As for Hannah... It was less about being heard. The tapes were directed to specific people with the explanation of how they hurt her knowingly or not. Her death was about escape. The tapes? Revenge. Blame.
@ColorsOfOrion
4 жыл бұрын
@Dark Shadow Storm I disagree. The thing about mr porter and what made me really despise Hannah was that he truly wanted to help her. Yes, he probably didn't ask the correct questions, but all Hannah did was say that something was wrong, and refused to answer any of his questions. A teacher cannot just start a police operation every time a student comes and says they are not ok, because that could go from "I had an argument with my best friend, and now I'm feeling down" to "I was raped by another student". He can't read her mind and know what her problem is, and if she leaves, he can't hold her back, as he could get into serious legal trouble if he did so. The thing about help is that it cannot be forced onto you, you need to accept it. And Hannah didn't. She just wanted someone to read her mind and fix her problems for her, just like she did with Clay and his tape (she pulled the same stunt with him. He was trying to confort her and she screamed him to leave. Yet she blamed him for not understanding that what she wanted was him staying with her. She stormed off Mr Porter's office while he was still talking to her, and blamed him for not chasing her) She was a toxic person who blamed other people for her problems, but refused to even accept their help when it was offered
@Xehanort10
4 жыл бұрын
@@tomoates8568 Exactly. Since Hannah wouldn't tell him it was Bryce who raped her there was nothing he could do. But Hannah went "Because he didn't go speeding down the hallway and beg me to tell him who raped me he didn't care about me."
@Xehanort10
4 жыл бұрын
@@ColorsOfOrion No wonder no one could help her. She wouldn't let them and told anyone who tried to go away.
@linaleverloppan.9752
4 жыл бұрын
I remember reading the book and fantasizing about doing something similar. It came out at a really dark point in my life. Everything she went through felt way to relatable. Even he reaching out but not getting help. Fortunately I pulled through and got better. I haven't watched the show because I'm too afraid it might be to triggery. Your video just showed me that this was the right decision.
@memma2673
5 жыл бұрын
I remember really liking the show upon my first, and only, watch of just the first season. But to this day I still feel a weird pain in my wrists when I get stressed, triggered, or when anyone mentions s**t wr**ts, because of how graphic that scene was. At one point this got so bad I had to wear a brace on my wrist to guard it and also to try and make the feeling go away.
@ravengal53193
3 жыл бұрын
I know I’m late to the party, but I somehow missed this video. What Hannah did to Jessica was disgusting and unforgivable. Jessica had no idea about her assault. For Hannah to drop that bomb on her in such a way, on a set of tapes she KNEW that at least ten other people would hear, is deplorable. And Hannah blamed Justin for not stepping in, but she didn’t either. Hannah knew it would hurt Jessica, and compromise their relationship. Sure, Jessica was insecure and took it out on Hannah. But her behavior did not warrant her being blamed for someone’s suicide, or her being subjected to trauma in front of a group of her peers.
@makpettus
4 жыл бұрын
I think a problem with the show was that with the glamorizeing of suicide leads people to idolize it and not think of it as a horrible tragic event . Kinda like people making serial killers uwu softbois uwu . And I think this happens with lots of metal health stuff (correct me if I'm wrong) but like people make depression and anxiety cute and ocd a 'quirk' and that sort of stuff and when we make theese things seem like they aren't as serious i think it adds to the problem that this show has.
@ladymoniquevonmolendorff5304
4 жыл бұрын
I couldn't agree more. I can't tell you how many times I watched videos or read comments of people mentioning casually how much anxiety they're experiencing, or how they're watching this cartoon or eating this thing to help calm their anxiety and I'm left wondering if they think that that's normal? If you're experiencing UwU anxiety on a daily basis, there's something wrong honey. Either diet related, underlying health problems or a mental disorder or a destructive thought pattern. It's not something to brag about or to mention it for the sake of being quirky or cute. It's a serious condition not to be taken lightly
@tycepickett1238
5 жыл бұрын
The fact that the show not only glorified hannah's suicide but that hannah actually weaponized her suicide as a fucked up ultimate revenge fantasy I found very disgusting. And that one of the people she blames for her death literally did nothing but publish one of her poems anonymously as a show of appreciation is pretty fucked up as well. Then There's the fact that clay goes around bullying and guilting all these people going purely on what hannah say's they did to her in her tapes, she was a vindictive, self obsessed asshole that chose to take offense at everything, repeatedly screamed at clay to leave her alone and then when he respects her wishes and leaves she blames him for not being able to read her mind and actually stay. She was extremely unstable and just a shitty person so honestly I found her accusations to be extremely suspect. And then there's the problem of the show sending the message that seeking help is pointless, that you already covered. There was so much wrong with the show and I can't believe they got a second season that tried to one up season one by having that school shooting plotline. I mean how fucking low will the show go to be controversial and edgy? And the character that almost committed the shooting was pushed that way because hannah's tape led him to getting horribly ostracized and bullied as well. So hannah was no better than the people she blamed for her own death. Fuck 13 reasons why.
@tde4438
3 жыл бұрын
Couldn’t have said it better~ 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
@nansiipii9018
Жыл бұрын
I mean some of them really were guilty
@lincoln5775
5 жыл бұрын
Im a bit of a troll but this is a legit comment. I really have a problem with these "teen" netflix shows (13 reasons, Riverdale). Now I'm not saying that watching a show that includes suicide will make you commit suicide however, a lot of the kids watching these shows are very impressionable. To be clear I dont have a big problem with highschoolers watching it but you'd be suprised by the amount of elementary school kids that watch this garbage! I've got siblings in the grade 6 - 8 age range, these kids love this stuff! Im not talking about a couple of the kids in the class either, I mean damn near the whole class! To be fair I was also consuming some questionable media at that age but it was never so accessible you know? And it was never so...blunt or explicit. Jeez I sound like such a boomer. What happened to just playing mariokart and riding bikes?
@leronstar394
5 жыл бұрын
Riverdale doesn't influence suicide
@lincoln5775
5 жыл бұрын
@@leronstar394 it influences other things tho.
@leronstar394
5 жыл бұрын
@@lincoln5775 like what
@lincoln5775
5 жыл бұрын
@@leronstar394 have you seen the show? Lmao
@leronstar394
5 жыл бұрын
@@lincoln5775 yes I have I watch all three season are saying there over sexualized teens
@manband20
5 жыл бұрын
I have very mixed feelings about this show and you will indulge me, I have a rather long rant incoming. Also spoilers. Simply put, I hate the show. Plain and simple, I hate it. Speaking from multiple viewpoints, I hate it. As a casual TV viewer, I hate it. As a person with a degree in Screenwriting who hopes to write TV or movies one day, I hate it. As someone who suffers from depression, I hate it. I don't like the subject matter because I view the book (and by extension, the show) as nothing more than a revenge fantasy that was only adapted because mental health awareness is a big thing lately the show runners saw a quick buck in cashing in on a big book from the mid-2000's about that subject. The show itself itself and the people behind it are so far up their own asses, it's unbelievable. They claim to be about "promoting mental health awareness" and they show a very graphic scene of a teenage girl slitting her wrists in the bathtub. Showing suicide is one of the things the APA specifically advises against in TV and cinema because it can unintentionally help push people thinking about it to doing it. The show runners reached out to these same psychologists to get advise on making the show as respectful as possible to the suicidal viewers who would inevitably tune in and THAT is what they got treated to. After a massive campaign of “Mental Heath! Ra! Ra!” even showing trigger warnings and pro-mental health support videos from the cast before the season even begins, they proceed to graphically show a teenage boy get the shit kicked out of him and sodomized by a mop handle in the bathroom by the school bullies. This led to MORE controversy and more hate from the media, psychologists, and viewers, to which they backtracked again and said they’ll do better next time and are all about supporting mental health awareness. In the early 2000’s, World Wrestling Entertainment ran a storyline where a tag team consisting of two male wrestlers, called “Billy and Chuck,” had a “Are They? Aren’t They?” relationship with each other. They dressed alike, bought each other gifts, acted all flirty, etc. and WWE reached out to GLAAD for help on portraying a homosexual relationship positively, who not only gave them positive advice but also got mainstream media coverage for them. It all fell apart when they revealed in a mock wedding ceremony that they weren’t, in fact, gay, but just buddies who acted like it, though one of the guys said “But we’ve got nothing against gay people! We love them!” and it got a MASSIVE pop from the crowd who had just booed them into the dirt for not actually being gay. GLAAD was PISSED they used them for good publicity and then shut down the storyline. If WWE can’t get away with going against a demographic after claiming to be representing them positively in 2001/2002, when it was still a crime against humanity to be openly gay, why did 13 Reasons Why try to pull a similar stunt, but for the mentally ill and for rape victims, in 2017/2018? But the main reason why I hate this show is it's just boring. If it wasn’t for its big shock moment at the end of the season that draws media controversy and viewers, this show wouldn’t have a third season imo. It’s slower than a snail sliding across the Sahara desert, it’s poorly written, they add nonsensical bullies who act like bad guys in a Quentin Tarantino movie into a plot about the girl who killed herself to get revenge on the people who wronged her. The characters are dull and do stupid things, events get retconned in the second season to try and make it more interesting (like Hannah dating the Asian guy even though it was never mentioned in season one and the original excuse for why she made a tape for him was because he stole her notes which is so stupid, the short bus had to issue a missing person report cause they thought one of the kids ran away to write that plot,) and they make everyone so generally unlikable I can’t root for anyone except Hannah’s mom, but by season 2 I’m so bored by the courtroom stuff I don’t even care then.
@manband20
5 жыл бұрын
So this leads me to part two. I bitched and moaned in an essay I’m writing at 1am on a Thursday that probably nobody will end up reading. What would I do differently? How will the wannabe screenwriter do what a bunch of professionals already did and got rich doing? Simply put, I’d do the exact opposite.Hannah Baker would die and Clay would find her tapes, but I’d make the whole thing either intentionally be a revenge fantasy or turn it into a mystery series. For the revenge idea, Katherine Langford would need to act her ass off. I’d have her as this angry, vengeful, spiteful monster who makes spilling the beans on everyone’s dirty secrets her final act on Earth. She would be uncaring and almost take joy in exposing the monsters she knew. The backstabbers, the bullies, the stalker, the rapist. Everyone. Even though she’d be handing over a bunch of dirt to the school and revealing who the real bad guys are, she’d still be doing this right before she kills herself simply to cause chaos and get revenge for everyone who guilty of even looking at her wrong. She wouldn’t be the kind, sweet girl everyone grew to love after she died. She’d be vindictive, spiteful, and going out in a blaze of glory. Think of The Joker if he tied himself to a nuclear bomb and had copies of diaries from every teenage girl in Gotham. The second option gives more potential for a second season. Hannah is nothing like Option A and never acts happy or sounds content like she does in the show. Hannah would be on the verge of tears with every narration. She’d feel horrible laying everything out, apologizing to everyone only guilty of small transgressions. The only difference is I wouldn’t have her name Bryce as the rapist of Jessica OR herself. This will be important later on. This idea involves Clay running around the city looking for the tapes instead of having them delivered all together to him. Have it be like a depressing scavenger hunt where each tape only reveals how bad her life began to fall apart, but Clay needs to hear them. Not because he has to reach his tape, but because he is dead set on gathering them up and giving them over to the cops. By the time be reaches the last Bryce tape, he hears Hannah accuse him, Clay, of assaulting her in a hot tub at a party. Obviously this never happened and he rushes out to find the last one, which he does, and it ends the way it did in the book/show. Through some circumstances I won’t think of right now, Clay ends up discovering that Hannah made a 14th tape specifically for Tony that she never got mailed out that reveals that Bryce is basically holding her hostage and forcing her to make these tapes because he knows if she lives, the truth will get out about what he did to her and he can’t let that happen so he frames her murder as a suicide and uses the tapes to throw the heat off his back for a while until he can think of his next move. Clay would then spend season 2 trying to take him down, legally or otherwise. Idk about you, but I love this idea and I thought of it ten minutes ago. It’s 1:30 now and I need sleep. Hope someone read these comments and enjoyed it!!
@rm9308
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the breakdown. I was considering watching it to be sure it's shit, but you've saved me a lot of time. Graphic sensationalization of suicide is a problem since depression is such a lonely problem, and shows are often a sufferer's only escape for days/weeks/months/years before they can't take it anymore. I remember feeling such emotion from graphic scenes I couldn't even be in a room if Law and Order was playing, even in doctors offices. Netflix should've hired better showrunners and writers for such a sensitive topic. And like Amanda says, you never give a suicidal kid evidence that reaching out would be pointless.
@manband20
5 жыл бұрын
@@rm9308 I have no problem with graphical content if it is done the right way. This show was not the right way. I only blame whoever changed the method of suicide from an overdose we never see to the graphic suicide we spend waaaay too long on and still manages to misrepresent due to the time it takes for her to bleed out and die being a couple of minutes at most.
@rm9308
5 жыл бұрын
@@manband20 I don't mind graphic content in the right setting and done well. I just meant Law and Order managed to generate a visceral reaction during that time for me despite being a tame show and without a suicide plot line. If I was watching 13 Reasons Why to try and find new perspectives on suicide back then and was subjected to a gratuitously long blood-letting, it could've been a worse outcome for me. I remember investigating Japanese suicide culture and feeling a comraderie with those stories. I certainly don't condone censorship, I'm just boycotting this show.
@manband20
5 жыл бұрын
@@rm9308 Oh, I completely understand your reason for not watching it. I only trudged through it because I wanted to have ample ammunition to shit talk it and, regardless of how boring it may be, I had to see it through or else I would feel like I couldn't adequately comment on it.
@AllisonJones1875
4 жыл бұрын
What's really messed up is how they changed the way Hannah killed herself, in the book she swallowed a handful of pills, to make that graphic scene.
@AllisonJones1875
3 жыл бұрын
@Pixelen Well, the whole thing is, they had also been told not to include the suicide scene, by trained professionals, no less, and they did. I have never actually watched this show, my knowledge pretty much ends after season one, though I know a little bit about two (most of what I know comes from KZitem and the book). I do know that it turned into a MESS after running out of source material.
@comradepinko1155
5 жыл бұрын
O god, again with this show.
@Karishma_Unspecified
3 жыл бұрын
I actually feel like Hannah's reaction to Clay leaving her alone when she asks him to, is true to how a lot of people see it. Also the counselor being unhelpful is pretty realistic. I have experienced both of those things. The problem wasn't the situation being portrayed... the problem was HOW it was portrayed. At the end of Season 1, we were told that Hannah was right to assume those things. But she wasn't. Speaking as someone who has been there, it took a while to learn not to blame either person in the "leave me alone (I need help)" situation and learn to express myself more clearly when I do, in fact, need help. It also took my a while to learn that some counselors are shitty - but that doesn't mean all of them are. Depression makes you lose hope, not become more vengeful. Suicide should not be portrayed as a revenge tactic!!
@mariec6601
5 жыл бұрын
In Canada there was a hazing at a Catholic boy's school, they filmed themselves sodomizing a young boy, I think he was 12, with either a mop or a broom handle. This was after season 2, if that scene hadn't been shown, then maybe these kids wouldn't have had that idea. I thought this as soon as I heard it, kids get ideas from somewhere and I think 13 reasons why as the tv show shouldn't exist. They. Don't realize that the pain is not real onscreen, but in real life those types of injuries can kill.
@JamesThomasJeans
5 жыл бұрын
The same thing could be said about... well, basically any form of media. Disgusting little shitheads can get inspiration from basically anything they see or do.
@aftd100
4 жыл бұрын
Yes the broom handle scene is shocking but I don't think it's responsible for the boys doing it for real. Crazy people get ideas from everywhere. It's like any horror movie ever. Lots of them depict violent acts and murder, but everyone shrugs it off because it's a movie, same with this, it's just a TV show. We shouldn't just ban anything with violence in it because some crazy guy might get an idea and copy it. If you're gonna ban 13 reasons why for giving people violent ideas then you have to ban every violent movie ever.
@mysli01
4 жыл бұрын
My 16yo student tried to commit suicide , later I learned she watched the show, mentioned it in a way that sugestie inspiration
@DynamiteGuys
4 жыл бұрын
You want a show to watch when your depressed? A good one? Bojack Horseman.
@edgyspaceunicorn7215
4 жыл бұрын
There's a difference between starting a conversation and abusing suicide for content. A show can discuss mental health, but it needs to be careful. YOU DONT SHOW THE SUICIDE HAPPEN, never in its full. And further, don't treat killing yourself as achieving victory, that just disgusts me. I hate this show.
@sophielauren7821
4 жыл бұрын
I was suicidal when I was 15 and a few years later when I saw that this was a thing I was pissed. It just made me angry that they made it so Hannah committed suicide to punish people to "show them" that they are at fault. Of course people can make things harder, truly but still... Sometimes if someone commits suicide someone will get heart broken and follow suit, blame themselves and follow suit, blame themselves for the rest of their lives among other things. It's not just painful for the person that commits suicide, when they are gone they are gone and the people that they left behind are left to figure things out. I feel like this promotes the spread of pain rather than merely displaying it. Not all suicidal people want to make others suffer for our suffering, some of us just want relief and that's it. I just didn't want to deal anymore and I still don't sometimes but I can't go down that path because so many people will suffer from that action, not because I'm amazing or anything but because I have plenty of people that love me. Imagining doing that to everyone kills me even though I know I won't be able to worry about their suffering afterwards.
@incineroar9933
5 жыл бұрын
I always hated this show. I couldn't watch it the whole way through. I'm dealing with suicidal tendencies (dx'd professionally) and I absolutely hated the girl and everything she did. She was an absolute spiteful jerkbag. I have never felt such infuriation and hatred towards a character before or since. I was glad she killed herself, and that was the worst feeling.
@comradepinko1155
5 жыл бұрын
It was unbearable. It was a teen drama that was desperately trying to create a super serious tone and story. Thank god I watched falling down instead lol. That movie helped my depression way more than this piece of garbage would have(the damn thing would probably kill me XD)
@miya705
4 жыл бұрын
Honestly, the part about reaching out and being dismissed is sadly realistic. When I was in high school and struggling with depression and suicidal thoughts, I was not only dismissed whenever I tried to get help, sometimes the people I would turn to made it worse (telling me I was being selfish for thinking those thoughts, telling me I was burdening them with my feelings, saying there was something wrong with me, etc.) It's a sad reality, and honestly I feel like sticking to realism is detrimental because it can make other teens feel helpless when they watch that. Shows that talk about suicide need to give viewers hope, not show the worst of things.
@Snow-pw6vw
3 жыл бұрын
I was sent to therapy in middle school for self harm, I was immedietly diagnosed with adhd, and besides occasional checks of my arms, nothing was ever done for my depression until literally this year (im 22)
@Hernameispamela
4 жыл бұрын
I recently finished this show and I have to say that I really like the first season, the rest is crap. HOWEVER I do NOT suffer from mental health issues or have any suicidal thoughts and in MY case it was an eye opener, created a new perspective inside of me and gave me no triggers at all. So what I have to say is trust your guts. The world will not stop for you and you are your best friend and have to take care of yourself so PLEASE don’t watch things that can trigger you, don’t watch things that resonate with problems you have irl. I have a grandmother, who raised me, with Alzheimer’s and so I did not watch Forever Alice, no matter how much I thought it would not affect me, or how goo the movie must be by the reviews. We have to take care of ourselves because we are the only ones that can do it! Do not put yourselves in danger!
@salemroses6401
4 жыл бұрын
Tbh if I’d seen that the scene with her mom would have been MOTIVATION for me to do it bc of how abusive mother is. I still refuse to watch it bc I gotta protect my mental health. But this would have been too much for me then. I honestly don’t know what I would’ve done. This show is DANGEROUS plain and simple.
@bloodyclary
4 жыл бұрын
That german book is a masterpiece though.. but she was right, after Göthe released it there was a whole wave of suicides imitating Werther's death. That's why this phenomenon, where people commit suicide following a media portrail of said, is called "the Werther effect". I still would recommend to read it, it's about this young man who tries to find his place in this world, but just can't seem to find it. He's got this beautiful mind, that just doesn't seem to fit in, and everything he wants to be is free. It's absolutely heart breaking.
@thatwriterguy9912
4 жыл бұрын
Though your point in regards to Hannah being pushed away when getting help does make sense, i also know first hand that a lot of the therapists or councillors you have don't actually help and disregard everything. A lot of the therapists i've had have blatantly brushed me aside. for example, there was a week that i attempted twice and the therapist told me that i was completely fine and when two of my uncles died in 10 days of each other she said sounded like i was doing really great. I do also agree with how it does look bad but at the same time it is unfortunately realistic and does happen.
@Eusong
3 жыл бұрын
In regards to the character being dismissed by a professional, and this isn't necessarily related to the rest of the show, when I was 13 I was being severely sexually harassed and receiving rape threats and I took this information to a counsellor I started seeing. She did not believe a word of what I was saying and did not do anything to assist me. 8 years later and I struggle with PTSD every single day. I was not raped by the people who were threatening me thankfully, however I still suffer intense flashbacks and nightmares every single day and night. My counsellor could've done something about it. She did not. And yes I stopped seeing that counsellor very shortly after but at the time it was because my insurance stopped covering it.
@love4allpplz1
3 жыл бұрын
It seems like quite of bit of kids have very shitty guidance counselors.... Those kind of people should not be in those careers if you arent going to actually help. Glad you're still here today 💜
@Furiouscream
5 жыл бұрын
I think the most dangerous thing in the show was to make every adult an idiot. Seriously, name an adult who took anything seriously in the show. I would think nothing of it in any other show aimed at teenagers, but it becomes horrible in the context of a show that thinks is representing these issues in a realistic way. It' offensive that this shit is still available, honestly.
@towelgirl21
2 жыл бұрын
I saw the graphic suicide scene... I had the "I wouldn't want to put my parents through that" feeling, but I wasn't suicidal at the time and I'm not a teenager.
@eileen8787
3 жыл бұрын
There's this Netflix movie called "To the Bone" and although it is FAR from perfect, I think it does a much better job at offering a good message to people struggling with mental health issues, especially teens and young adults. In this movie the mental health issue is an eating disorder but a lot of the principles still apply and an eating disorder is one of the few mental health issues I've personally struggled with so I found myself able to identify with this movie on several different levels. Just a thought though. Also, a lot of what you're saying makes perfect sense! It was what I was thinking when I saw they were making the movie (I'd had to read the book in school and personally did not like it at all. I know it wasn't visual but I didn't like the idea of "revenge suicide" being romanticized). Thank you for making this video. I think it is very intelligently analyzed.
@andysmith5806
3 жыл бұрын
During the suicide scene I could feel my old feeling welling to the surface and it worried me so much that I had to turn it off. I can’t imagine how a teen would react to that.
@roselover411
4 жыл бұрын
So I read the book back in high school some time if I remember right, and I remember that it was very sobering to me. The book I think handled the portrayal of Hannah's suicide and the way people around her could have made a difference rather well (Though this is coming from someone who has never been suicidal so I can't say how it was for that group). But when I heard about them making it into a show I was just like "Why? That seems like a bad idea", and then when I saw the trailer I was *horrified*. It was so obvious that they were writing things in a way that was glorifying Hannah's suicide which is the absolute WORST thing you can do when working with a topic that sensitive and potentially dangerous, and that having visions of Hannah showing up to Clay after her death, while potentially a sign of schizophrenia which could be its own can of worms, still gives the impression, as Amanda here said, that she gets to experience the aftermath of her death and get something out of it which is simply not a message you want to send teens that could watch this and be directly impacted to take their own lives expecting to get justice or revenge of some sort by being able to see the fall out. Whether your personal beliefs about an afterlife support that or not, it's a very dangerous and damaging message to send. The entire existence of this show in the way that they approach mental issues and things like suicide disgusts me. (And then I heard there would be a second season and I just went Wwwwwhat?? Why? How? The book was one single novel, and not that long of one at that! What else is there? And now there are FOUR! Wtfffffff)
@cgphotoandfilm
4 жыл бұрын
Despite what the show or other media may portray, therapy is fantastic. I, for the longest time, was suicidal and did self harm because I have multiple mental illnesses which causes an all out war in my mind and I HATE it. My parents knew, but only small parts. They’ve seen me have panic attacks and knew about my anxiety, but that was it. I never considered therapy because of how media portrayed it: adults who don’t understand you. And let me tell you that It’s not like that. My parents decided to send me to therapy (with my consent) and it was the best descision because my therapist, at least, isn’t “an adult who doesn’t understand”. She felt like a friend who I could talk to. She understood and helped me understand my mental illnesses and how to live my life with them rather than take them away. Of course I’m still struggling today, but I am better. God, looking back I am so much better. My mental illness doesn’t feel like a battle I am fighting to get rid of but rather it is another part of me that I need to be aware of and take care of. So please. Consider therapy. No one will think less of you for wanting to fight and heal (and if they do, that’s on them and I will fight them personally) So please. Consider therapy.
@Xehanort10
4 жыл бұрын
It portrays suicide as revenge against people Hannah doesn't like. Instead of saying "If you ever feel like this there are people and things that can help" the show basically acts like there's no help if people are feeling suicidal and that it's supposedly all hopeless. Its message tries to be "If you're a teenager who's suicidal tell an adult" but comes off more like it's saying there's no point telling an adult because they won't understand.
@rinwhittney5039
4 жыл бұрын
my mom and step dad actually forbid me from watching it when it first came out. I was in middle school then and my mental health was at it's lowest. I'm glad I never saw it thought I did read the book. I can't remember how it impacted me though. I'm so glad I never watched it. During that time I tried and thankfully failed to s*lf harm. It was only because the pocket knife was old and dull and I only scratched my wrist a little, there was no blood. I was in such a bad place and really wallowed in it having lost a close friend after something happened between us (it was my fault and my mom had told me somethings about him that only made it worse for me mentally) it didn't get better or awhile but now I can say that my mental health is better and I'm doing therapy (not for the same reason) this show was a terrible idea, they shouldn't have made it let alone continued it.
@dutchpangermanist5673
3 жыл бұрын
Hello Future Me has a great video about this: The complex problems with mental illness in fiction, or something along those lines.
@LMSPetRescue
3 жыл бұрын
I hate this show. Even in highschool when this came out and I was suicidal at the time, I couldn’t bring myself to watch this show because I knew it would push me over the edge. This show went about suicide all wrong. There’s a scene in House where one of the main doctors kills himself and although there were hints when rewatching the show it felt out of left field first watch through. The suicide happened off screen but His coworkers/friends found him. Unlike 13 reasons why it was less of a blame game where you’re left thinking “my death will get back at everyone that hurt me” and more of a somber sad feeling of “if I do this, the people I’m truly going to hurt are those who I never intended to ever hurt. It’ll hurt my friends who I love and would take a bullet for to a point that they may never recover. The ones who find me are the ones who cared to come looking when I was a no call no show for one day, and they’ll never stop blaming themselves for it when I never wanted that.” It also focused mainly on the fact that the happiest people you know could be struggling and silence so PLEASE ASK, ask people if they’re truly okay, if they lie and say Fine pull them aside later a tell them they can always talk to you. It gave the good message that you never know what’s going on in someone’s life so be kind, be caring, be a friend and a listening ear. That scene left me less suicidal and more concerned over what my death would do to those I never wanted to hurt, that I’d scar them for life
@thatfuzzypotato1877
3 жыл бұрын
Just a random spark of goodness to counter such a heavy topic. While watching this my toddler looked at my screen and said "her hair pretty" and wanted to share that with you (unsure if you read comments on such an old video)
@ileanarenoir9839
3 жыл бұрын
I read it and thought that was really cute, made me smile 😊
@thisislightning7356
3 жыл бұрын
The german book that started the debate was back when it was written (in 1778!) a cautionary tale and supposedly caused a suicide wave but definitely started a huge debate and the author (Goethe kind of like a german Shakespeare) re-worked the book to make the suicide seam less heroic/appealing. Later the title of the book was name-giving to the phenomenon of media inspired suicides and the heated debate around it and of course the research. So its sad an annoying that the creators of the show where so disregarding to that subject.
@koivunen2489
4 ай бұрын
In hindsight, I'm really glad I didn't end up watching the show way back then. I'd been having tough times, and the Spring of 2017 was extra bad. I wasn't physically a teen, but I'm pretty sure I had some mental age development delays due to the prior tough times. I remember a similar conversation being had in my home country when I was a kid. There's a super popular series (IDK if it's a full on soap opera, but it definitely has a bit of a lather), and around 2002-03 it had a side plot about a teen self-harming. And there was an almost immediate increase of SH (I don't know if it was self reported or kids were getting caught more 'cause the parents were paying attention and checked for cuts). My school had at least one case of attention seeking via fake SH, when a girl grabbed a blunt, wooden butterknife and started mimicking SH during lunch. I don't remember what happened, if I ever even knew at all, but I hope the adults in her life got her some kind of psych eval.
@kevshorty
5 жыл бұрын
Stats don't reflect anything unless more research was done on what spiked the suicides. Just simply stating that they recently watched the show isn't good enough. For all we know getting bullied one more time was the trigger for them. I'd believe that because research has always shown that real life interactions has far more influence on a person's life than a movie, TV show, music, or video game. It's just convenient to say that these forms of media are culprits of such behavior
@AmandaTheJedi
5 жыл бұрын
Normally I agree with media scapegoating being an issues, but Suicide Contagion is a proven thing and there are numerous instances throughout history where the method that suicide is displayed/reported in the media has a noticeable effect on suicide levels. Same thing can be seen in mass killings where the infamy they receive in the media encourages people to follow suit.
@madisonpoll3300
3 жыл бұрын
I watched this less than a year after my childhood friend committed suicide. My parents were watching it and I stupidly decided to watch it with them. It turned out to be a bad idea bc every night we watched an episode I wouldn't be able to sleep. I never told my parents, but one night I went into my room and had a panic attack after watching the show. Not only does this show encourage suicide in struggling teens, it makes every teen who has ever lost someone to suicide begin to question if they have any guilt. I spent nights frantically combing through memories trying to see if I ever did anything wrong to him. Ultimately, it became very unhealthy and I stopped watching after the first season.
@sonniXinsane
3 жыл бұрын
I mean, while I agree that we shouldn't tell kids that there's no point in reaching out for help it's also irresponsible to tell them that it'll automatically do any good. Most people I know who reached out when they were suicidal teens were, at best, ignored but very often punished. My school would hold you back a grade or expell you if they found out you were suicidal. And, coincidentally, I grew up where that show was filmed. If you tell kids that reaching out will always do good and they do so and they're vilified by adults then you're further convincing them that it really is just them that nobody gives a shit about. Showing kids that adults fuck up and that it's important to learn how to identify trustworthy people is way more important to their survival than "tell an adult and you'll get help"
@Reciovex20
5 жыл бұрын
thanks for the info Amanda so useful
@jaynedavis3388
3 жыл бұрын
I have a severe chronic pain condition from a botched surgery & medical abuse at 15. I’ve been in pain every day & all night (I have to take the scary sedatives to sleep) for 25 years. I KNOW I would’ve ended my life as a teen if my mum hadn’t refused to leave the room for any reason until I PROMISED her I wouldn’t “Make me loose another daughter in her teens” (it’s easy to push someone’s buttons when you installed them). The psychologist said I wasn’t serious because I couldn’t figure out a way to do it that wouldn’t scar someone else for life. She said suicidal kids are in so much pain, they can’t focus on other people’s feelings. What I have is a death wish which isn’t a concern given my situation. I was never diagnosed with any mental illness but I still think she was wrong about my pre-intervention intentions
@Sullabib
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, "Die Leiden des jungen Werther" by Goethe caused a huge suicide wave in the Germany of the 18th century...
@nottodayimbusy7146
3 жыл бұрын
Hannah had plenty of people willing to help but she refused to accept it I feel bad that she was suicidal but when you refuse the help what are people supposed to do for you I felt like the guidance counselor didn't do a great job but he didn't dismiss her he legally can't keep her in his office if she wants to leave and him not chasing after her does that mean he doesn't care
@oliviagriffith3626
3 жыл бұрын
TW about “that” scene: It was traumatizing. It should have never been shown on television. As a teenager (around 15 at the time) who was struggling with depression, that scene sent me into a spiral. For a good week and a half I got flashbacks of it, saw it happening to me: I had basically been given a graphic visual “how to” guide. That is the sort of impact these professionals were discussing and the fact that they ignored it has very real consequences.
@mschallable
5 жыл бұрын
You did not add the list. Otherwise, great video! I have also had some very low lows but have never really had a problem with the show. Season 2 had trigger warnings all over the place so I would hope that people would have the discernment to pay attention to those.
@biggestastiest
3 жыл бұрын
i will tell you that both me and my older sister have both gone through this emotion and exact hard time when we were young teenagers. it really is an easy habit to slip into of seeking out more heavy subject-based material when you're going through a heavy subject, and if you're young and impressionable, those messages can be taken in a very wrong way if not done correctly. i was fortunate enough to survive that situation, unfortunately, though, it was only me. i still am heavily impacted emotionally by the media i consume, and i know she was, too. for the sake of young people going through suicidal ideation, i beg creators to actually know about the things they portray.
@andreeacat7071
3 жыл бұрын
You don’t get to choose who lives who dies who tells your story, if you’re dead
@bluesrike
4 жыл бұрын
Whenever somebody says we shouldn't be talking about suicide and depression under the guise of "it'll make things worse", I come back with a quote from Lightning from Final Fantasy 13: "The sound of true despair is silence."
@danielhounshell2526
4 жыл бұрын
There's a big difference between honestly representing an issue and glorifying/romanticizing it. This show does not honestly represent its issue, it glorifies the act of suicide in an extremely dangerous and irresponsible way.
@bubbleteaprince7528
5 жыл бұрын
All and all I know how I am late to this but at the time all the kids at my school loved it and wouldn't let me voice my opinion. There were these kids that had no clue what it felt like and how insulting it felt to me that they would prase this show and they had no clue it was really disgusting and really made me appaled when I watched it. It got nothing right and it glamerized something that shouldnt be glamerized. Even my mom didnt understand. But I cant be anymore insulted by something like this and they are supposd to be INFORMING us on mental health and suicide NOT glamerizing it. They got it wrong on so many levels and this isnt what it is like and other kids that have no clue and people that havent opened up about this are going to look at this and be like this is normal. It isnt normal for adults not to believe you and not help you. (That part is what got my blood boiling) But they expect me to sit down and watch this inaccurate show. Mind you I may or may not be wrong they got the help of medical advisers and phyceatricz (probably not spelled right). But this is insulting from a suicidal person, a person that has already been through it, and a phyceatric stand point. Sorry for the tangant I really hate this show and it is 1 a.m. for me.
@shamrock4452
4 жыл бұрын
It was in the book that she went to get help and didn't receive it. They shouldn't have glorified the way it was done in the show however, it was staying close to the original media
@GBfanatic15
3 жыл бұрын
I will say that as someone who has BEEN suicidal it was very triggering because much of what she talks about and how she felt was stuff that I have personally gone through and it brought back a lot of those feelings so I understand why it's a dangerous show I only watched the first season and I honestly don't know if I could bring myself to watch the second
@confusedindividual
2 жыл бұрын
I’m willing to believe that at least on some level, show creators and other media outlets are genuine in their desire to raise awareness and trying to dissuade harmful behaviours like suicide, addiction, violence, etc. The underlying problem is that in order for any production to reach a significantly sized audience, it has to be interesting, and that’s a dangerous line to walk. All of a sudden, the underlying message becomes “ is interesting.” To a mature and rational audience, it may be harmless and informative. To people who tend to think harmful thoughts towards themselves and/or others and are already prone to justifying their harmful behaviour? Not so much. Sometimes, you get away with portrayals of these issues because they’re used as plot devices as part of a larger story. The act is not the point of the production. But when everything about the production revolves around the act, you need to be honest with yourself and your audience about what you think you know about the issue. Odds are, you don’t because other people who make entire careers out of it are still trying to figure it out.
@mistreme8341
4 жыл бұрын
It certainly was a button-presser. I'm 50 years old and I spent most of the series wanting to strangle all the adults in the damned thing! It's a histrionic angsty show and an exploitation of the perception teens have of their environment. It is entirely 'relateable' as I can remember having those hopless and helpless feelings in those days, but I was blessed with adults in my life that soothed the pain and protected me sufficiently so I could get through High School and on to College. So, the reason I think the show is dangerous is because it shows no hope for help! Not really! Parents out to lunch, Administrators murderously political in their decision making with kids in peril, Police more interested in destroying the youth of the town rather than protecting them, and a general existence where the whole adult town is blind to the fact that their kids are dying and/or going insane. We get a psychologist in Gary Sinise in the end who seems to be the only adult that knows what they are doing. I long for a teen drama where there actually are the adults there that do make a difference featured more prominently.
@ZachT
5 жыл бұрын
In the first season of the show it is indicated that the character Tyler has a stash of guns and in the second season he attempts to go and shoot up the school dance. I'm not one for going all Jack Thompson on everything (guy's an imbecile), but I wonder if there's a link between that and the recent increase of school shootings. I mean obviously there's the gun culture in this country and mental illness that are obviously at play here, but this video and that STEM school from yesterday had me wondering if there was a link between the two.
@helloill672
5 жыл бұрын
What STEM school?
@ZachT
5 жыл бұрын
The one in Colorado.
@helloill672
5 жыл бұрын
@@ZachT I think I heard of something happening in Colordo. Sorry for forgetting.
@knitwit9447
4 жыл бұрын
As someone who has attempted suicide, I actively refuse to watch it. My friends tried to get me to, but I knew it would affect me. I have PTSD, both from my suicide attempt and from some other events in my life, and I don't seek those things out. I don't pick books that include rape or sexual assault as a main component because I know I'd end up having a panic attack or a flashback. I don't seek out media on suicide and self harm because I know, even years after my last self harm incident and suicide attempt, it could bring out some negative emotions I'm not necessarily ready to tackle. This show just seems a bad idea in the way they handled it. Hell, I remember some dumb PSA my teacher played for our class where a kid was shown as being depressed and SWALLOWED A HANDFUL OF PILLS, and committed suicide onscreen. That, even though I knew was fake and was being used as an example to seek help, was enough to have me leave the classroom. Glamorizing suicide like they did in this show, whether intentional or not, disgusts me.
@themacias
4 жыл бұрын
Holy shit I felt there is something familiar in your way of thinking, I'm a psychologist too =) I'm watching your videos now in backwards order and I'm really enjoying them. Thank you for that =)
@thylionheart
3 жыл бұрын
When you show your suicidal protagonist seeking help and not receiving it……how can you then turn around and be serious when you tell suicidal viewers to seek help? You just told them through the narrative that doing so is hopeless.
@beezyqueen
3 жыл бұрын
i know this is an older video, and i think i remember hearing that the graphic suicide scene in season 1 was removed, but here’s my piece anyways: (cw: self harm, suicide, sexual assault ) i was someone who read the book when i was younger, and so watched the show, and ended up relapsing into self harm for the first time in like 2 years after watching s1. and honestly, while i agree with all of the critiques of the show, and some of the book now too, i don’t think i would have relapsed if that one scene had been removed. you mentioned how the mom’s reaction would have made you less inclined to be suicidal and to that i agree. if they had kept her death off screen and kept the moms reaction this would have been different. i think the problem was that they were TOO realistic. almost every person i know with a history of self harm was brought back to that traumatic feeling of not being able to escape your demons. and EXACTLY what it feels and looks like to be in that place. no amount of content warnings can bear the weight of that realistic a portrayal of trauma. i think the lack of support from any of the characters elders, on top of the graphic depictions of sexual assault, and culminating with a graphic depiction of EXACTLY HOW to successfully commit suicide, was so grossly irresponsible. and i’m still resentful towards netflix for not only keeping the show up, but committing to more seasons. i’m glad i don’t know the graphic scene in s2 you’re referring to, because even having only seen s1 once when it was first released, i have visceral reactions remembering that ONE scene.
@butterscotch2730
3 жыл бұрын
I never watched 13 reasons why, but I read the book in school. The book does a good job sensitively showing how small mean things can have a huge impact on other people's happiness and mental health. So I am surprised what piece of shit the show seems to be.
@RGSuperfan
Жыл бұрын
I thought that the season 1 was good. But I am not a mental heath professional and I'm a grown up. So I've never thought about it the way you explained. I think you are completely right. The way death is depicted on the show. Like in a way Hannah comes back almost under a ghost form. And see her "revenge" going as planned may fool vulnerable audience to what death actually is. You make a really good point. I've already heard that the way suicide is portrayed in the media gives an impact on suicide increases or not. I don't know if it's true, I don't have the sources, but I have heard that after Marilyn Monroe's suicide, suicide rate in the United States went up. But when Kurt Cobain killed himself, the rate went down.
@TessaYoung33
3 жыл бұрын
Please include mental health reach out links under the video description please.
@madamemelone4947
3 жыл бұрын
I read the book when it came out. It had a HUGE impact on me. I wrote my death letter, like she did. I planned my death, like she did in the book. I thought I was right. Fortunately I never finished the letter and didn’t leave the world. But the impact only the book had on me scares the hell out of me! I would never watch the series because of what happened after reading the book. Never. It’s disgusting that someone made the show without listening to professionals, without thinking... just disgusting!
@Amarianee
4 жыл бұрын
As someone with bipolar disorder, (ended up being diagnosed around 6th grade), but unfortunately not diagnosed until after depressive episodes already nearly being fatal, I LOATHED this show. The glamorization of suicide and depression and using suicide as a bargaining chip hit a nerve - HARD. I was not as triggered as some people by the actual suicide scene, but I understand why people were. It's honestly likely because I was more irritated by the unrealistic-ness of it. The majority of successful suicides are not wrist slits and perpetuating that idea is irritating. I raided the medicine cabinet, and most people I know (successful or not) were either ODs, hangings, or gunshots. People do slit their wrists, but it's usually non-fatal, and even more devastating because of it. The same goes for unsuccessful ODs. The point I'm getting at is that, for most people (that I've talked to) who have gone through this, it was infuriating. It's not helpful for people going through it and your mindset isn't, "let me take the time to set up this revenge plot before taking my life." Your mindset is so defeated and what you're focused on is just ending the pain.
@aspacecocoon
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for speaking about this, Amanda
@gingerbish6183
3 жыл бұрын
*major trigger warning for self harm* As someone who stupidly watched the show while struggling with severe depression, self harm, and suicide, I would never recommend it to anyone (especially teens). I hated the show after only a couple episodes since it was incredibly triggering and ultimately infuriating, yet I watched through season two before I stopped altogether. The week I began watching was the same week that I relapsed and I remember cutting while I was watching the show. 26 times in one day to be specific. For anyone watching this while struggling, please be incredibly careful or don’t watch at all. It may not seem harmful but it is.
@dr_lubaba
4 жыл бұрын
I liked the book cause it made me think about my behaviour towards other but the show just made me depressed about myself.
@revistatelescopioliteratur5951
4 жыл бұрын
Im a grown woman and when I watched the show I was mentally and emotionally drained. It is very painful to watch a group of teenagers go through all of this. I would never watch it again and I do not advice people to do so.
@tsukishirou
3 жыл бұрын
i couldnt even get through the first season it’s too hard and i was in a better mind space when i started watching but went back to the worst place mid-show
@hmmokay.4807
4 жыл бұрын
Thank you, good wrap up of this issue
@Roseforthethorns
3 жыл бұрын
It was a German book! The Sorrows of Young Werther by Goethe. Fun fact: it’s one of the books the Creature reads in Frankenstein
@helenlewis2510
4 жыл бұрын
I was personally going through some very heavy shit when this show came out and I refused to watch a single episode for the sake of my mental health. To this day I have not seen any of it.
@SierahtheDaring
3 жыл бұрын
I mean that happens though. Something similar happened to me. I asked for help and no one was there. I was in a dark place and my therapist stopped seeing patients very abruptly. We were in the middle of all this intense stuff for me and he just pooped and disappeared. I had to find a way to work through that on my own.
@nataliefox916
3 жыл бұрын
Just before I turned 17, I started to run out of energy. I wasn't really sure what the point of anything was, and 13 Reasons Why - being one of the few books i'd come across about teen suicide - seemed like it might hold some answers on how to wrestle with the way i was feeling. A week after finishing it, though, i walked out in front of a car. Lots of things and other books helped me get better, and I'm not sure i believe in censoring literature of any kind, but fuck, that book at that time was, for me, a perfect storm.
@wen771127
3 жыл бұрын
Looking for Alaska is far better in dealing with similar topic, and unlike 13 Reason Why, it actually guides its audience through the journey of grief. I highly recommend it.
@DetectiveBrisket
5 жыл бұрын
Ah shit, here we go again.
@tasleem5677
3 жыл бұрын
Not once in this show do they show Hanna trying to reach out for help. It's only at the end that she goes to the counselor. But what about before that? This show is supposed to show children how they are supposed to deal with these problems. But all they show is Hanna being wronged and feeling helpless and finally resorting to suicide. And then they try to glamorize and romanticize it with her tapes. That's not how suicide is supposed to be portrayed. I only watched one season and was really disappointed.
@B_A-tr
3 жыл бұрын
So the sorrows of young werther (a really bad book to be honest) is about a man named werther who moves because he become administor of a beautiful garden. He really likes nature. Some day, he meets a woman who he falls in love with but she is already married. Spending a lot of time with the woman he loves but cant have kinda wrecks him and at some point an area gets flooded wich represents hos torment so he decides to shoot himself, dies 6 hours after and gets buried far away from good christians that dont kill themselves (thats his words not mine) on his request
@ryanscott717
4 жыл бұрын
The message of that scene was to take it seriously if someone comes to you with an issue like that. That's why it was more focused in the counselor
@wolverineminer
4 жыл бұрын
He did take it seriously. Hannah just decided that he needed to be a mind reader and ran off and got confused when people left her alone when she asked to be left alone.
@ryanscott717
4 жыл бұрын
@@wolverineminer Hey man, it's been so long that I don't even remember the scene to have a discussion with you about it lol
@Tuco_Salamanca3
5 жыл бұрын
It’s a show, it doesn’t force anyone into doing anything. However, the extreme graphic scene in the bathroom was wildly innapropriate and uncalled for. It needs to end already.
@AmandaTheJedi
5 жыл бұрын
I agree! definitely doesn't force anyone to do anything, but I do see how it could effect someone already dealing with suicide ideation for how it displays a handful of scenes, that being a very large one.
@ace_of_cups4096
3 жыл бұрын
My mom really wanted me to watch the show and read the book, and I am glad I refused because I did not have a healthy grip on my depression, and at the time was having suicidal thoughts. I'm still not going to watch it because I still don't have that great of a handle on my emotions and don't want to make things worse for myself
@kelpymckelps
4 жыл бұрын
I read the book in High School, I truly hated it. I think it's vile it was made into a show.
@sigorni1
4 жыл бұрын
Thank you for making this video.
@blitzvalentine363
Жыл бұрын
I agree with all of these points, except when she went to see the counselor. She wasn't really dismissed, he tried to help and tried to get her to tell her what was going on, but she refused to say anything. The counselor couldn't do anything if he didn't know what was going and he couldn't force her to stay or force her to say anything. She had to say what was going on from her own mouth and she gave hints, but she still wouldn't tell him the whole thing. I know you're supposed to have them stay if they are showing signs of doing something like that, that you're not supposed to let them go, but he couldn't do anything as just a school counselor. I'm not vicitm blaming, but I'm not blaming the counselor. I would say it was more Hannah's fault in that regard, but they were both in the wrong
@ayatahery1427
3 жыл бұрын
Honestly, I saw some episodes of it and felt empty amd I was just crying that is why i stopped it
@haleymurray3292
3 жыл бұрын
I had a past classmate who did take his own life. Came out of no where, he had trusting friends, I watched him laugh and have anger moments. I grew up with him. The day of his wake, I stood by another classmate who was one of his best friends who was ready to fall to the floor in tears. I did watch the show, only character I felt for was Justin and Tony. It felt like they were more real then any of them. I could put media faces to each other character. Yes, that one adult was an asshole, they're other people to reach out to. Find a stranger if you scared of being judged or personized. I was a little fine with the present of the young guy getting raped because men are being put in another light now. Look at what happened to Johnny Depp. He was the victim but his acting career is destroyed.
@sakura3837
4 жыл бұрын
It would’ve been helpful if they made Hannah baker live. The author of the book confirmed or implied that she was still alive after her suicide attempt and that she was hidden away by her parents. At least that’s what I read an article I believe. Just pulling ideas from my mind. Hannah Baker lives after suicide attempt, Jessica and Clay and her parents will try to be there for her and give her emotional support, sue Bryce and get him in jail, and Clay and Hannah can even get together.
@Phrankster163
4 жыл бұрын
They always try to find something to blame it on. First it was "back-masking", then it was depressing song lyrics, then violent videogames and so on and so on. They tried to blame Columbine on Marilyn Manson, because one of the killers "might" have been a fan of his. Those that want to do it, will always find a reason. The simple reason teenage suicides are so high in the US, is because many of them grow up in a seriously messed up society, that for a large part still doesn´t take bullying and mental illness seriously. It always easier to point the finger at others, than it is to look inward. We don´t know how many of these teenagers were bullied on-line, but I´m guessing it´s a lot of them. Social media has become a cancer, where bullies reign free. I stopped using it years ago, when I realized that nothing good can come from using it. If we really wanted to do something for the mental health of young people, we´d shut them all down or at least put an age limit (21 for instance) on the use of social media and enforce it hard. I´m glad that it didn´t exist, when I was growing up, because it´s a stress factor that´s the last thing they need in their lives.
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