I actually did something similar to this recently. I used an M16A1 clone (1:12 20”), a SOPMOD II clone (1:7 16”), an M4 clone (1:8 16”), and a 733 clone (1:12 11.5”). I tested 3 types of ammo as well. Federal 45 gr subsonics, Aguila 38 gr high velocity, and Norma 28 gr Ecospeed. All of the shooting was done with iron sights at about 50 yards, except for the SOPMOD which had an Eotech. The results I got showed that for best results, the longer the barrel, the better the grouping, and the faster the ammo, the better the grouping. The M16A1 with eco speeds shot by far the best, and the 11.5 with subsonics didn’t even group at all. The twist didn’t seem to be the deciding factor in any case. The 16” 1:7 barrel shot better than the 11.5 1:12.
@BlokeontheRange
Жыл бұрын
Interesting!
@sopwithcameltoe
11 ай бұрын
I recently tested 1:7, 1:8, 1:8.8, and 1:16 (dedicated) with the same CMMG bolt, Black Dog magazine, and my lower that runs best with the CMMG parts. The dedicated upper, of course, used a barrel collar instead of a chamber adapter. Ammo was CCI Std Vel, Blazer 40 RN, and RWS Rifle Match. Barrel length did seem to matter, possibly as much as twist rate. Ranked from best to worst: 1:16 (16" Bore Buddy .22 LR barrel), 1:8 (20" Anderson "5.56 Match"), 1:8.8 (18" DPMS ".223/5.56"), and 1:7 (7.5" DPMS 5.56). Out of the 20" barrel, the CCI and RWS were supersonic, with that possibly influencing group size.
@michaelwhite9199
11 ай бұрын
Another classic style Bloke home run! Very interesting topic. Great video sir.
@jamesharrison2374
11 ай бұрын
Great video, I have thought about the adapter, however here in NC a local manufacturer now makes an all metal upper in .22lr. .22mag, and in.17. It uses the CMMG mags. Not sure if they can be exported or imported, yet another option.
@simonjones6128
11 ай бұрын
Interesting experiment Nice and nerdy
@georgg372
8 ай бұрын
life time goals addition: be able to swap between at least 4 barrel riflings for a .22lr CMMG AR BCG in order to nerd out on group widths.
@keepyourbilsteins
11 ай бұрын
Have a dedicated cmmg 22lr upper for my 'GI' KP15 lower. It is a tack-driver out to around 75-80 yards. Love it more than my 10-22.
@GBGuns
10 ай бұрын
Good test, I've wondered as I tried one of those conversions in a rifle and didn't have the best results.
@LittleRabbit1138
11 ай бұрын
More people should be putting stickers on their rifles... Give into your inner child
@Schregger
4 ай бұрын
Finally! I was trying to find any info as to what twist rate would do. I was thinking of getting a CMMG conversion for my AR, but it had a 1:8 twist. Figured it would affect accuracy, and it looks like it did. So, guess im getting a dedicated barrel anyways.
@gabemando7823
11 ай бұрын
For what it's worth, my A1 shoots half an inch+ wider groups than an 1:7 upper I own with 55gr .223. However the inverse is true with the CMMG conversion.
@yyams
10 ай бұрын
Ha! When I saw you dressed up as mike from spaced, I knew you had that in you... Skip to the end... Awesome:D
@Mongo63a
11 ай бұрын
I designed the 22LR upper from CZ. I always wondered how many were sold in Europe.
@baconlord9062
11 ай бұрын
The Strakonice CZ?
@Mongo63a
11 ай бұрын
@@baconlord9062 yes
@baconlord9062
11 ай бұрын
@@Mongo63ano offense, but do you have any proof of it? I’d really be impressed if you are indeed the designer because it’s a very well designed system.
@Mongo63a
11 ай бұрын
@@baconlord9062 I have all the original Solidworks files, first copy of the manual with all my typos that they copied and did not fix until later. I have the first production unit still in the original first marketing box. The upper was originally marketed by Victor arms as the V22 with an agreement with CZ to make them. Unfortunately I got bad advice from a terrible lawyer telling me my design could not be patented. CZ took the design and decided to sell it without paying the agreed royalties to myself and I had no recourse due to said shit lawyer. Mark Serbu might remember the design since I bet him I could design the upper in a week and ended up designing it in one night.
@baconlord9062
10 ай бұрын
Wow! Productive night! Its a great design! Why did you make that little nub hit the buffer?
@Gunner40Five
11 ай бұрын
Great job as we have come to expect for the channel! Keep up the good work.
@kenibnanak5554
11 ай бұрын
Good experiment. Appreciated.
@marcusott2973
11 ай бұрын
Call me weird, but I like to look at different ejection patterns. Probably comes from getting hot brass everywhere, including down my back every time we fired in a Schützenkette or Zugsgefechtsschiessen. The dedicated upper throws them forward.
@Gagis
11 ай бұрын
Sweet! I had been waiting for this! Lets see whether this affects my plans regarding which rifle to buy and whether I'd rather spend the money on a separate .22LR rifle or a conversion kit.
@justinmishler6758
11 ай бұрын
I’ve enjoyed the heck out of the conversion kits
@elesjuan
10 ай бұрын
I absolutely hate the FightLight SCR exists, for the reasons it exists... Beyond that, what a cool rifle system! Too bad they're so damn expensive!!
@zoiders
11 ай бұрын
SPACED! And an Austin Powers reference. 🙈
@gnashyathuur8513
9 ай бұрын
Hi BotR! Great video, great idea. I've wondered the same and I don't think I've actually seen anyone address this specific topic in a video yet. I did want to discuss magnification of your chosen optics though. As a matter of experiment design, I'm concerned about the 1x optic being used on the "less likely to succeed" higher twist rate barrels. I think that's really setting those higher twist barrels up for failure, and doing the experiment, on a practical level, a disservice. By introducing an important variable (optical magnification), you're introducing an outside element that can affect and potentially invalidate experimental results. It is my opinion that a properly done experiment in this instance would have all firearms using optics at the same magnification level to ensure fairness in human-firearm interface to eliminate the role magnification plays on practical accuracy. The notion being that more magnification lends more practical accuracy, or at least that keeping more variables consistent produces more correct results. It certainly does for me at least, given I use an obscenely high magnification scope when doing my handload development for my personal rifles, compared to what would practically be used for their intended purposes (29x currently, one day 36x). Given your depicted scope allotment, it is my unsolicited opinion that a more proper experiment would be setting your LPVO at 4x, using the fixed 4x on your 1:12 twist, and moving the LPVO to use at 4x on the two that were limited to the Primary Arms 1x micro prisms. Don't get me wrong. I like the Primary Arms 1x SLx. I have a couple myself. I just think it's not quite giving the 1:8 or 1:9 twist barrels a fair shot to limit them to 1x, when the others get more. But then I'm also open to being proven completely wrong, in the name of good science. I actually entirely agree with your hypothesis and findings, it's just a the scientist in me coming out to play. Thank you for your wonderful content either way. :)
@BlokeontheRange
9 ай бұрын
In an ideal world yes, but swapping the scopes around magnifies the ballache massively and in practice it's not the optic that's limiting here :)
@theaussiecockie4881
11 ай бұрын
as requested, - Salty Comment - posted to keep Al Go Rithum happy. 😁 Gday from Aus
@crgintx
11 ай бұрын
I suspect that some Aguila SSS .22 LR ammo with its 60 grain bullets might shoot better with the faster twist barrels but you'll have to have a dedicated recoil spring to get it to function reliably.
@KretinD
11 ай бұрын
From what I understand as long as the bullet doesn't come apart, a "faster than optimal" twist doesnt affect accuracy. However the faster twist will deform the bullets more than the slow twist would and 22lr ammo is soft.
@guantanamobae530
11 ай бұрын
Nice test! I was curious if there were .223 barrels that shot well with this kit, as mine did not, so I bought a dedicated .22 barrel. This kit likes a heavy hammer spring in my experience as well.
@3of11
11 ай бұрын
Nice tonHighlight the 10 ring size of the CMP sporter rifle target. Any decent ammo and decent rifle can easily clear the target. But yet virtually no one scores a perfect 600!
@0214Bub
11 ай бұрын
Interesting results. I used a cmmg conversion kit for a period of time in a 16" 1"9 twist barrel and about the best I could get was 2" groups with a red dot at 25 yards which I guess you could say would be good enough for government work. Saw in the comments you have purchased a Nordic 22lr upper since the video. Will be interesting to see how the more dedicated 22lr bolt used in the Nordic unit works compared to the cmmg style bolts. With the cmmg bolt I was using I would get some occasional back and forth bolt movement that seemed to effect shoots.
@JohnDauffenbach
10 ай бұрын
Try the 60gr 22 in the ar, mite make a difference. I think cci make it.
@Joshuab9009
11 ай бұрын
Is Bloke a Porcupine Tree fan? Great taste. I've been on the fence to build a dedicated 22 lately, probably a pistol. Though at 25 and 50 yards my Faxon barrel has given me surprisingly good groups with the CMMG bolt. You reckon the faster twist rates are more likely to cause leading?
@BlokeontheRange
11 ай бұрын
Yes, I'm indeed a PT fan, well spotted ;) I don't think the twist rates will have any effect on leading.
@timwilliamanderson
11 ай бұрын
I have always wondered how these would work with a suppressor, I’m not talking about using my centerfire rifle suppressor with 22 long rifle, but too long rifle out of an AR upper through a 22 long rifle can
@deathlis
11 ай бұрын
I'm surprised by this. I bought a conversion kit a few years back, tried ARMSCOR 36gr high velocity at 50y out of a 16" 1:9 AR, and my groups were about 3.5" - I later tried out to 75y and started to see keyholing in about 1 out of 10. Tried 100y and had numerous flyers as well as much more keyholing. The conversion kit just didn't seem reliably accurate to me. May have to try it out again and try other rounds.
@markwickk
11 ай бұрын
I have Anderson optics ready 16"..1-8 twist . Have a cmmg conversion kit 22lr..put a small rubber buffer ring at the end of the spring..were it slams..bought a buffer tube block to keep it tight.. my experience 1-8 twist is accurate at 50 feet..knocks the eye out of a paper squirrel..simple red dot..upper receiver and barrel should be cleaned after every use..well worth the investment..be safe
@larslindstrom5829
10 ай бұрын
I was considering bying a CMMG conversion kit for my Sigsauer. But twist rate is 1:8 and I dont know. I have to try one first I guess.
@carlcarlton764
10 ай бұрын
9:35 ... 😳 I hope the optic didn't get damaged when you blocked it's path with your face.
@zoiders
11 ай бұрын
Have you managed to aquire the Hk small bore kit for your L85A1 yet? That WWSD stock and lower looks fantastic BTW.
@BlokeontheRange
11 ай бұрын
I, unfortunately, don't have an L85A1... Wish it were mine though!
@zoiders
11 ай бұрын
@@BlokeontheRange I didn't realise it was a loaner. Someone out there somewhere has the unicorn which is the L86A1 straight pull. The unholy off spring of an LSW mated to the L98A1 straight pull cocking handle. They bodged a Weaver rail on and tried selling them to club shooters in the UK.
@alexxu3004
11 ай бұрын
wonder what aguila sss do in these. nomal 22lr barrel dont stablize those heavy sluggers at all
@skeets6060
11 ай бұрын
How come you take down pins are not captured ?
@BlokeontheRange
11 ай бұрын
Cos it's a polymer lower there's no way put the cavities required for it in the injection moulding.
@dmg4415
11 ай бұрын
But still angel of small game head?
@TMFShooting
11 ай бұрын
Great Video Thank's 💯💥💥💥💥💥💥💥
@robertsears8323
11 ай бұрын
Great video until the end. When you added in that ad for that shit paid site. I truly hate it when you greedy youtubers stop making good content for youtube just so you can force people to PAY for what should be a free video. If the Weapons and Was website was free I would 100% love it and use it. But IN NO WAY WILL I EVER PAY FOR THE STUF THAT ALL GOOD PEOPE MAKE FOR FREE. Ian and Bloke you have both sold out and are a massive disgrace to the shooting community. You should be very ashamed of yourself.
@BlokeontheRange
11 ай бұрын
What do I put on WaW that I don't put out for free? Cos I'd like to know what it is... And you might want to check your sense of entitlement - you'd be amazed what we spend making this channel, and it's not all covered by ad revenue / Patreon. We're running at a loss to produce content...
@robertsears8323
11 ай бұрын
@@BlokeontheRange The fact is anything like that, that has a pay wall is total garbage. This is why I also hate Rumble and the other crappy video hosting sites people like you and Ian use. Also the fact you let ads play and take in ad revenue also makes me very made and have NO RESPECT FOR YOU. "We're running at a loss to produce content..." Good that is the way it should be for you and everyone on youtube. You should not being trying to make money of your content. The way you and the other guntubers are acting is the same as the evil Hollywood actors that THINK they deserve a lot of money for making entertainment. If you want to make money get a REAL JOB ands stop trying to make money off people online.
@BlokeontheRange
11 ай бұрын
Hoookay... So you have no respect for me cos I try not to run my SECOND JOB (which I do alongside my REAL JOB) at too much of a loss. Good for you, you sound like you're fun at parties...
@robertsears8323
11 ай бұрын
@@BlokeontheRange I HATE and have NO RESPECT for you or any RICH person, You are all very entitled and think you deserve all the money in the world. I fact is I HATE everyone on earth but I truly hate rich people like you most.
@Rileysworld727
11 ай бұрын
I think that barrel length affects accuracy more than twist rate. As in this test all the 16in barrels grouped about the same regardless of twist rate. It would be interesting to see you test a 1:7 twist rate 20" barrel. Then we could really see if the length is the determining factor.
@Chlorate299
11 ай бұрын
Heh that's an amusingly simple conversion, special bolt carrier group, special magazine, no tools, no permanent mods, and acceptable accuracy.
@wastedangelematis
11 ай бұрын
The App ad was a nice touch !!! History of weapons and war app gang reporting in /!\
@turtlemagnum
10 ай бұрын
gonna be honest, didn't click on this video expecting to hear a vaguely jazzy cover of megalovania. not complaining, though
@jjgourde
11 ай бұрын
Ham has a saltier taste then turkey. Consider that when planning your next holiday meal. Is that a salty enough comment? I am Youtubing right?
@TheOz91
11 ай бұрын
I find it interesting how because the .22 is relatively quiet to the point where the microphone doesn't peak--so you can hear the trigger reset in the microphone. With more powerful ammunition and/or when other shooters are around, you can't really hear any of that. One thing I haven't seen done is putting a .22 conversion kit into a straight pull AR-15. This is theoretically possible, of course, since everything else is AR-15, it just doesn't have a gas system. Practically, I do wonder how well it would work in such a rifle since the receiver has a big cut out on the side for the charging handle.
@BlokeontheRange
11 ай бұрын
Voilà a .22 conversion kit in a straight-pull :) kzitem.info/news/bejne/wpqk04ClpoiWkoo
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