We're going to be at GenCon this year find out more about it here: www.greatgamemaster.com/dm/event/2019/great-gm-at-gencon-2019/
@atashgallagher1631
5 жыл бұрын
Please do a video on how to speed up minor combat for beginners please. In my very beginner campaign just a little road encounter with a few bug bears takes half an hour. We have very little time to play together usually only an hour or two. Which makes that half hour minor encounter be basically half our time
@captainmanx5615
5 жыл бұрын
"Argh, my character's intelligence is too low for this puzzle, but I know the answer! I...wait, my luck score is high. I can make a lucky guess!"
@TylerAndToast
5 жыл бұрын
The coolest thing I saw was a low intelligence PC solved a puzzle, and the DM said how did you know which runestone to push in? And the or said that he liked the shape of the rune so he just pushed it. And the way he RPd was perfect.
@TrueKingOfTheWolves
5 жыл бұрын
Had a cleric that was phobic of caves and dark places. Barely survive getting swallowed by a black slime. I badly wanted to move out of range to save my precious plate and illustrious masterwork mace but of course I hated dark places so why would I know about its acid. Felt sooo bad to swing my baby at it knowing that but RP is king baby.
@Nerobyrne
5 жыл бұрын
@@TrueKingOfTheWolves I would have let you make a knowledge check for sure. Just because you hate caves doesn't mean you don't know what's in them. Reading books isn't scary at all!
@nickwilliams8302
5 жыл бұрын
Puzzles in RPGs are _supposed_ to be solved by the player, not the character. That's why they're there.
@mennograafmans1595
5 жыл бұрын
@@nickwilliams8302 They're supposed to be solved by both. Indeed, the player has to figure it out first, but the fact that you know it, doesn't always means your character does, or the other way around.
@CatHasOpinions734
5 жыл бұрын
There is nothing more dispiriting than catching yourself doing this. "This priest of Kelemvor seems a bit suspicious... Wait, he's telling us the thing with the bloody skull is his holy symbol?! The symbol of Kelemvor is a skeletal hand holding scales, this guy worships Bhaal! Aha, we saw through his... wait, my character doesn't have knowledge religion and grew up in Maztica, she wouldn't know any of that."
@nickwilliams8302
5 жыл бұрын
It's trivially easy to come up with a reason why your PC knows this. For example, your character has spent time in an area where priests of Kelemvor are relatively common and is familiar with the iconography. Of course it is dispiriting to know the answer to a problem yet "have" to pretend not to know something that you do know. What's surprising to me is that anyone would think it _would_ be fun. The problem with the situation you have described is not that you recognised the symbol of Bhaal, but that the idiot GM had someone pretending to be a follower of Kelemvor _wearing Bhaal's symbol._
@CatHasOpinions734
5 жыл бұрын
@@nickwilliams8302 Except that we all fleshed out our backstories with the GM, my character was fresh off the boat at the start of the campaign, from a continent where there's 1 city (Helmsport) that worships mainland deities, but she never spent much time there. And the imposter priest wasn't wearing the symbol of Bhaal, it was on his holy symbol but he kept it hidden, I only noticed it because I made the perception roll (most, including our cleric, didn't). Those of us who got a glimpse of it rolled knowledge religion to notice what was odd about it, and I got to roll with advantage because I was the one who brought up a question, but because I didn't have proficiency and Int was my lowest stat, we still didn't notice at that moment (because really, it didn't make the slightest bit of sense for my character to know that). Instead, I mentioned later on that his holy symbol looked weirdly sinister, and we as a group figured out what was going on and how to deal with it, rather than the one party member who's played several campaigns in this setting before automatically knowing everything.
@OriginalWarwood
5 жыл бұрын
If your character didn't know anything about holy symbols and symbolism, perhaps you should have asked aloud what the symbol was. "What's that you have there? What's with that skull like locket thing?" (If you have a martial or roguish character): "Are you tryingto pull a hidden dagger on us?" Now you have brought the item to everyone's attention.
@EasterTurkey
5 жыл бұрын
You can always ask around libraries or religious centers for info on stuff.
@samuelyork5265
5 жыл бұрын
@@EasterTurkey why would you ask around for information on that? Do you ask around for information on every random trinket you see? Sounds like metagaming to me.
@Leafy1-j1l
5 жыл бұрын
This is why, when I GM, I frame everything in the context of what the character knows. "You see what we know as an elephant. Your character has no idea what an elephant is. It has more in common with demons you've seen than any natural animal. At first, you mistake the thing for a boulder, but then it moves." How big are the ears? Is the tail up or down? Those details escape you, it is a large and terrifying animal you've never seen before - in fact, what would you like to name it other than "probable cause of your death"?
@nickwilliams8302
5 жыл бұрын
Here's the thing. If you don't want your players to know it's an elephant, I have a revolutionary idea: _don't tell them!_
@Leafy1-j1l
5 жыл бұрын
@@nickwilliams8302 This seems like a wonderful idea until you try it at a table of five people. "What does it look like?" "Grey, with two horns and a nose like an anteater." "How large is it?" "Gargantuan" "Do I detect evil from it?" "No." "Is it magic? I have Detect Magic up." "Nope." "It's not magic? Can I roll Nature then?" "Sure." "Hey, good idea, can we all roll nature? And Arcana?" "The GM said it's not magic." "That just means there aren't spells on it!" Players do not react well to not knowing. Save yourself thirty minutes of describing the physical and supernatural qualiies of an elephant and say "this is an elephant but your characters do not know what an elephant is."
@CitanulsPumpkin
5 жыл бұрын
The general knowledge, everyone knows arguments are a lot more valid than some people believe. Unless your character is a complete fish out of water who was born on the other side of the planet, or even another planet, then they grew up in the game world and know about all kinds of things you as a player might not think about. Is it a medieval fantasy setting? Then your character should have some knowledge about the local goblin or orc horde. Hell, every child should know at least three nursery rhymes about trolls being weak to fire and red dragons being immune to it. Is the setting a literal copy paste job of star trek? Then the academy you characters graduated from should have filled their heads with horror stories of disastrous first contact scenarios.
@larsdahl5528
5 жыл бұрын
Now now now! The classic "Orphaned child with amnesia" -background for characters is a lot more common than some people believe. And they should have next to nothing knowledge of the world outside the orphanage.
@DungeonsandRoses
5 жыл бұрын
I’m glad you made your saving throw against the rhino.
@henrycarson3023
4 жыл бұрын
The more I learn about how to DM well, the more I learn how cool Guy's life is
@ViktorTheMusician
5 жыл бұрын
Once had a player ask for black powder bombs in a roughly medieval homebrewed setting. My answer was no but only because it wasn't a concept the area they were playing in (an Irish/British amalgamated island) had encountered yet. He then asked me for 3 ingredients: Sulfur, Charcoal and Saltpeter, which he argued were "normal alchemical ingredients". I felt like something was up, realized he was trying to metagame discovering it for himself. (He was a rogue btw). Ended up compromising with letting him get Alchemists Fire since the stats already exist and it's theme appropriate. He ended up (intentionally) blowing up a gnomish jewelry factory resulting in a death toll of innocents 10x higher than the villains had ever commited the whole campaign, but that's a story for later.
@fakjbf3129
5 жыл бұрын
My DM has a rule that if you want to use out of game knowledge you have to make a roll, and if you succeed you then need to come up with a plausible addition to their backstory to explain it. It doesn't need to be specific, maybe the wizard's uncle took him hunting once and that's why he knows what scents would attract or repel a predator. It just needs to be something that you add into the vast empty spaces of your character's life. It helps move the game along, it creates more fleshed out characters, and it's a lot of fun coming up with creative life experiences to explain why they know this one specific fact.
@Oban2006
5 жыл бұрын
Or you just don't meta-game, not everything needs to be done on a roll. Just stop.
@toothless420
5 жыл бұрын
I used that once in a character that was a massive book worm. Backstory was he read all the books in the entire tower of mages, and then went around to world to find more book to read. Was his whole goal of adventuring. Find more books. So I could usually pull the; Oh I read that in a book that in theory it could be possible to do X.
@fakjbf3129
5 жыл бұрын
@@Oban2006 ah yes "My fun is more valid than your fun", such a wonderful mindset.
@martinsjoquist
5 жыл бұрын
I play in a D&D 5e campaign, where all 4 players AND the GM are all meta gamers. We do meta game quite a bit, the DM reels us in when it becomes too much, but we are all good sports about it, and the DM homebrews a lot to throw us off. "Homebrew that makes sense" is the perfect counter to metagaming, because when the knowitall player comes in and "My character knows this and this and this", the GM can say "Well, it might work like that in other systems, but in my world, that is not the case." Throw the metagamers off. This results in 2 outcomes. 1, the metagamer gets angry and leaves the table forever. 2. the metagamer has fun, using his characters knowledge of the world instead of his own to solve something, he learns a valuable lesson and becomes a better player.
@Br1cht
5 жыл бұрын
Vettigt gjort!
@absolstoryoffiction6615
5 жыл бұрын
I think this is where backgrounds like "Noble" is heavily used in order to have Meta Game witch does not break the fourth wall or does not create a distance between the Player and their Character.
@Nerobyrne
5 жыл бұрын
people who get angry that their metagame didn't work are not usually worth keeping around. Sounds like they have a massive entitlement problem, that is poison to any cohesive group.
@BerndXYCV
5 жыл бұрын
One player in my group just straight up opened up the Monster Manual to look at the stats of the monsters they were fighting since he could not believe the monsters had an multi attack. -_-
@DarinMcGrew
5 жыл бұрын
GM: "Interesting. Apparently these aren't the same monsters described in the ancient tome you've been carrying around. Or perhaps the ancient tome contains some inaccuracies. It's hard to say..."
@toothless420
5 жыл бұрын
As a GM. I just tell them they have the wrong monster. When they ask the right monster, i just tell them that they will have to wait until they can analyze the corpse to tell. Then you tell them it's a completely new species of that monster that was never seen before.
@larsdahl5528
5 жыл бұрын
Ah! I think you there gave (another) good reason for why NOT to play a RPG system with a Monster Manual...
@piecookies3488
5 жыл бұрын
I tell my players that when I use a monster from the book I change stats to make things more interesting. I don’t care if the manual says goblins have 7 hit points, these goblins have trained in an elite guard for their dark lord. So they are higher hit points and stronger attack due to having better weapons.
@RaithSienar
5 жыл бұрын
I think the OPPOSITE is just as bad if not worse. Here's an example, I was in a group with a guy who prided himself on never metagaming, unless a character's knowledge skill would specifically cover it he doesn't know what or how something is. So he's playing a rogue in one campaign, we're level one, he immediately walks up to a chest and tries to open it without checking for traps or anything at which point I stop him (not the DM btw) and go "Wait aren't you going to check for traps?" To which he replied "My character has never experienced traps so he wouldn't know that a chest could be trapped" and then I said "YOU LITERALLY HAVE THE FIND TRAPS CLASS FEATURE YOU KNOW WHAT TRAPS ARE AND YOU KINOW THAT THINGS CAN BE TRAPPED! A ROGUE THAT DOESN'T CHECK FOR TRAPS IS A ROGUE THAT'S GOING TO DIE!" Needless to say he died cause the chest was trapped. Oh and don't get me started on his wizard that didn't know what the undead are. Look I'm willing to say yes, your character might not know the difference between a ghoul or a wight but every single character and NPC in a D&D world will know what the undead are if only because they were told stories about them growing up as kids.
@Lionrhod212
5 жыл бұрын
On the other hand, there are places where metagame knowledge is useful and can be a fun addition to the game. Let's say I'm playnig a druid or ranger who should have quite a bit of knowledge aout the woods. The DM has been leading us through a wilderness, and I can tell he's annoyed because he just wants to get back on track of the adventure, and the other players are chafing.. But here were are lost in the woods... "Well," my ranger says, "I look around for any waymarkers that I can find". (Carvings in trees or rocks, piles of rocks set in a particular position, even tufts of grass or stems purposely broken to point the way. Now instead of metagaming, I am using my already informed knowledge of woodscraft to play my character well. Another way to use meta game knowledge might be to inform your DM on how things "really are." ""I've never met an elephant," Guy says,"B but my gran told me a story. They sneaked up on the village, their toes so soft in their squishy pads that no one, not even the guards posted at the gate heard their soft footfalls.Not until it was too late, and the elephants were running through the village, spearing guardsmen on their sharp tusks."
@AssasinZorro
5 жыл бұрын
Recently I found myself as a "meta-game ass". I'm a GM and I've recently failed my players. I've expected them to get to the bottom of an issue and hadn't provided enough guidance to them. Here's how it went down: I've studied psychology and I've cooked up a pretty cool character that was symbolizing the problem that one of the players (and his character) had. I really wanted this game to be therapeutic and I wanted to get to a catharsis at the end. So I needed the players to create a transformational experience for the antagonist. They've met the antagonist after getting a pretty good idea of the perceived issue of the antagonist and they tried to go about it in a simple way. It didn't work as they planned so they've retreated to gather their forces. But when they came back, they didn't change their approach and instead kept doing the very same simple thing that didn't work the first time around, so they got killed. I felt like this was fair because the character wouldn't change his behavior or way of thinking after his perceived issue was addressed, his real issue had to be addressed and players had failed to do so. To me, the situation looked like there was a set of stairs and the players needed to make at least three steps to not fall and reach the bottom. They just looked at the set of stairs and thought: here's a perfect step. I see no stairs here. And me, being an improving but imperfect GM just made them fall those stairs fairly instead of showing them that it is not as simple as that. P.S. Oh, and you know you failed for real when you have studied psychology and still didn't communicate your ideas well enough.
@handfulmousefly
5 жыл бұрын
I am TERRIBLE about blurting out answers in meta. I'm ADHD and have a lot of random knowledge on very specific. This is remedied by the fact that I'm a book-crazy wizard, but it still stings when I thoughtlessly interject and am gently reminded "your character is in another place and therefore not part of the conversation"
@falkyrie5228
5 жыл бұрын
I generally allow that type of "meta gaming" in my table. I like to reward clever players, so I let them be clever. If you are not so "enlightened", roll the dice; but if you are, you don't need to.
@Gnarlf
5 жыл бұрын
there is a line between using your knowledge to solve a problem and overwhelm others with your knowledge, so that the gm just surreders. With the first i don't have a problem too, but the second one can get a little immersion breaking at times.
@Gnarlf
5 жыл бұрын
@@nooooooooope3809 :) No you don't. Just don't overuse your knowledge, so everybody can have fun at the table.
@atashgallagher1631
5 жыл бұрын
Please do a video on how to speed up minor combat for beginners please
@Oban2006
5 жыл бұрын
It's impossible...
@lindarkknight4044
5 жыл бұрын
@@Oban2006 I don't really think so simple things like rethinking what system you are going to run if it's too much crunch for them or perhaps index cards with actions laid out on them. Things they can physically look at to jump start the thought process helps speed combat up really well. Once they are used to combat perhaps introducing 2 min turns at max and then slowly reducing the time. Just get them to practice getting faster at it.
@larsdahl5528
5 жыл бұрын
I'll say there are two situations: (1) You are the GM, then plain simply 'skip the details' and proceed to the result.- The same way as if the group travle form A to B, you just say: You arrive in B. (Or if we should use computer game terminology: Click 'Auto-resolve' or hold + or whatever the game have to skip the boring combat.) (2) You are a PC, then it is a bit more difficult, as you may have to have a talk with your GM outside of the game, where you suggest the options the GM have to skip those boring combats. - And the tough one: If the GM will not improve, then ... well ... harsh reality: You have to find a better GM/group!
@30noir
5 жыл бұрын
@@Oban2006 It's not. 1 quick tip is to get players to roll to hit and damage at the same time.
@AGrayPhantom
5 жыл бұрын
Also, roll damage and attack at the same time. This saves SO MUCH time, no matter how long you've been playing!
@TodlicheVerwuste
5 жыл бұрын
A moment of silence for all of the unfortunate Tamagotchi who never had a chance....
@Whitefish41
5 жыл бұрын
F
@chrisbolland5634
5 жыл бұрын
F
@randomgirll3123
5 жыл бұрын
Ohhhhh this makes sense! Oh your photography experience sounds amazing! Mildly terrifying, but awesome. I would really love to hear more about your animal knowledge! “That player hasn’t hunted anything but a cheese burger,” s a m e.
@DanSolo41
5 жыл бұрын
To put this in terms of Firefly: Kaylie, Wash, and Simon will tend to find the other mechanics, pilots, and doctors/surgeons/medics at any party. Jayne will find the other tough guys, bouncers, mercs, hill folk, that kind of people. Maybe get into a fight, maybe an arm wrestling competition, maybe an axe-throwing competition, maybe a drinking competition. Or all of the above. Zoe will find the one other Vet. ("Aww, animals?" / "Not that kind of Vet." / "Oh...") Inara will mix with clients, patrons, and other well-to-do fancy-pants types in their... fancy hats. (Badger, the twins from the movie, and could even leave on "favourable terms" with Nishka). And Mal... he'll be Mal. They have their specialties. The actors generally know what those are. The PCs, and the players, should at least know the general terms of what their characters would know. Meta-gaming ass-hats, should not be played with, unless the whole party really like just being that kind of crazy. DM as well. If you all like the sorta "Cube" mentality play, the layers upon layers of meta-game thinking, of the "That's what they WANT us to think!" kinda thing, go ahead. Ignore everything I just said. But that takes a certain kind of group. "That's how they control, that's how they get into your mind! You weren't there, man! YOU WEREN'T THERE!" Again, only good in some groups. Most just want to kick down doors, or shoulder them, or turn them into makeshift shields, and then slaughter every orc in the dungeon. Because reasons. Always, always, reaad the group.
@valasafantastic1055
5 жыл бұрын
That’s why I just made a know it all Aritificer with proficiency in nature , arcana , etc. And high INT. So she is built to legitimately be a ‘know it all’ and then I won’t be metagamming so much. But yeah it’s an issue we need to think about. Would my character know this? How would my character act? When really in RP it’s easier but we still have to be careful about it. I make these ‘would the character know this? Would the character be intelligent enough to take this action?’ I do these rolls for NPCs all the time and as I GM more I should consider carrying the practice over when I get to actually play a PC. Also I make players make history, nature and arcana checks and if they fail I inform them their character doesn’t know. Based on what the DC was I set and the number they hit is how much I say they know. This makes a huge difference! Great video thanks.
@theonlyxbox360
5 жыл бұрын
Im fine with most subtle metagame 6th senses, I make my encounters and combats for my players AND the characters that roll their dice, so I expect at least a little realworld player knowledge to seep in. I will and have, however, hardline rejected actually impossible feats of acrobatics and the like, as well as made sure my table all knows and agrees that 3 things happen. 1) we respect eachother, and my rulings as DM are law 2) we try our best to be our characters when it comes to playing, not the player pupeteering a vessal to insert themselves and 3) unless asked, you do not “help” a player run their character or make decisions for them. For example, one of my players (irl intelegence of 8) was playing as his paladn (also 8) and talked to a blacksmith and a carpenter to make the mk4, a 6 wheel, 35ft long carraged cart that has metal plating on all sides to reinforce it, with dropout bottoms to allow players to poor out the sides, space for 4 horses to pull the cart, handbreak and quick release for the horses and cart, and undercart storage for horse rations. Of course he also tried to describe this in character, valiantly struggling to metagame it to be (and i allowed it) and some gaps in his knowledge between carts and cars popped up, like him trying to explain suspention, as a character without this knowledge, only to be told wooden carts already had a form of suspention, and then when he asked for s pivoting system in the cart i had the carpenter explain that due to weight and size, a pivot point would be a severe weakness. Now our group are good friends and we grill one another hard as all british people tend to do (we’re manx, but people dont know what that means) and the players layed into him hard for metagaming and trying to make a tank. After a 20 minute roleplay (done well, i might add) that while heavily metagamy in feel, was actually very good use of his character knowledge (mostly), i agreed, set a price of 200 gold, and said come back in 2 weeks. This is what i consider the edge of good metagaming. Bad metagaming is when you give your opinion when your character isnt there or being interacted with, or when you overtly use your player knowleedge and ignore that your character hasn’t the foggiest idea what magnetism is, because you want a railgun (yes one of my players who used to be very metagamy and a powergamer tried several times past my first hard no to convince me that their 20 int wizard would be able to make a portable handheld railgun).
@andrewpowers2249
5 жыл бұрын
Finally, a video that isn't about me! I don't know anything, my characters always should know more than I actually do.
@thedragon133
4 жыл бұрын
"In a melee you hit your friends just as much as your allies." Shame you corrected that because I felt that :D
@robertsilvermyst7325
3 жыл бұрын
When it comes to meta-gaming, I look at the campaign, look at my knowledge, and I will create a character in such a way that his backstory, proficiencies and class reflect best the kind of person who would be aware of things, or have the best chance of at least having heard about some things regarding what my personal knowledge is centered around.
@dermeseti
5 жыл бұрын
I generally ask the DM if I can roll an INT check to see if I would know something IF I think my character might have done something similar to regards to what I want to check. The only time I ever used real world knowledge in a game is when I had am Eldritch Knight who was a former soldier(I am a former Army soldier) so I used a lot of army lingo and tactics in game and it was okayed by the DM that my character would have this knowledge.
@StefanBernEilers
5 жыл бұрын
Meta gaming, when used properly can be great. as you mentioned, when you share your knowledge offgame, to inspire or help another player to go in deeper with their character. personally I like to use my meta knowledge when my character meets a monster or another npc adversary, not to know their stats, but to get a feeling on how my character would react to the (to him) unknown threat. in the Dark Heresy campaigns I've been in, I often use my meta knowledge to "enhance" my sense of the scene. so when we encounter something that to me, offgame, smells of necrons, and I play a scitarii ranger, then I take it in as a form of dread for the unknown tech my character encounters. in games in general, when the gm changes the monsters and how they behave, I use my meta knowledge to let my character be extra surprised if it is a knowledgable character, or give the monster an more dangerous "aura" to my "inner gaming picture". If your meta knowledge doesn't help the group (the gm included) to have a better experience, and losing can be a great experience if the rp is good, then the meta knowledge should be saved for after the session, or for somewhere else, in my oppinion.
@rokiyo
5 жыл бұрын
You touched on the issue of the GM saying "the Elephant loudly stomps through the jungle" and the player responding "um, actually, they're very quiet creatures", but you didn't really provide advice on how the player could raise that more constructively with the GM. Lots of great advice on how to deal with a fellow player knowing less than you do on a topic, but not so much on how to deal with the GM being in that situation.
@BrazenBard
5 жыл бұрын
A good GM in that particular situation could roll with it, "Yes, elephants are normally quiet, but this one is charging through the jungle, and you are quite aware you don't want to be in front of it when it comes by." And then there's the question of what's chasing the elephant in the first place...
@rokiyo
5 жыл бұрын
@@BrazenBard This video seemed to be more directed at players - While a good GM can work around this, I was interested to see how players should best approach this.
@BrazenBard
5 жыл бұрын
@@rokiyo This is true - but it can be applied to self-checking, too; if you catch such an error from the GM, you can ask him why a normally quiet beast would suddenly forgo its normally stealthy ways. :)
@tukman16
5 жыл бұрын
Great vid. I recognized some mistakes I make after watching it. Thanks for the proposed solutions also. I'll try to implement during my gameplay
@Isdezenaambezet
5 жыл бұрын
This is why i like to play high intelligence characters, there is more reason for you to know things. Knowing things in game is fun, but without decent intelligence scores its rare that you will actually get to use it.
@robholts7302
5 жыл бұрын
My GM has us inhabit the bodies of our characters Quantum Leap style. We retain all the memories and experience and personality of the character we created, but we also have all the knowledge and memories of our real life selves. Potentially this can be a dangerous thing about us were the wrong NPC learn of it, and so we do not go around broadcasting our true origins, however, it has yielded some very interesting contraptions as we apply our knowledge to the game. We built a steam powered ship with impellers that became the fastest ship on the seas, as well as being able to "sail without winds." It just depends on the type of game you're playing. We play casually, and knowing that meta knowledge will likely creep into the game, our GM made it a feature, instead of a problem.
@biba1baba2buba3
4 жыл бұрын
I'm the meta-game expert ass, but only ooc more or less. Most noticeably - we played a naval campaign, me being the only one who had any rl sailing knowledge etc. and even have a license. I got us a 50m ship xD originally the gm wanted to give us a 20m boat but "20m is not a ship, it's a boat. A ship needs to be at least 25m+" (differs country to country though) One of the players laughed when we were discussing this "No, I'm serious, I have a license, it's a real life thing" - "Oooh. Well alright then :D GM?" the gm also looked pleased. Little did I know he also watched Guy's creating a naval campaign vid "sure, we can give them a ship... so we can take it awaaay." I mean he didn't, but it was funny. And intense... crazy more like it. Absolutely devastating... ok I'm done. In game (ooc) there was a lot of "how does this work" questions aimed at me :P
@InquisitorThomas
5 жыл бұрын
As someone who is a currently a player but also a DM, I often recognize the monsters, so I make sure to roll to see if my PC would know that information.
@toothless420
5 жыл бұрын
Can also try to see if they can figure it out as they fight it. Like troll regeneration. Your character might not know a troll regenerate, but he might see the wounds closing up. Knowing the monster also allow you to know what to look for to figure it out. Asking the GM question so they can guide the thought process of the character.
@larsdahl5528
5 жыл бұрын
I think fair questions are: From PC to GM: "What do I (my character) know about this?". From GM to players: "Can we change to a new RPG system for the next campaign, so we avoid getting the same stuff over and over again?".
@unknownv312
5 жыл бұрын
Great video. What I normally do, which really isn't ideal since its completely meta, is to either write a list of stuff (for example a list of leatherworking/cobbling tools in order to make boots) and send it to the player with cobbling skill, or saying "From a meta standpoint, you need x, y and z." It doesn't get the other player to think about it at the moment, but it allows for them to be more creative later. If you do this, I highly recommend finding a quick video explaining all the stuff for them, so they can understand what everything does to a good degree.
@Gnarlf
5 жыл бұрын
Uhh that's..nice i guess. I don't think i would appreciate that very much to be honest, but maybe i just misunderstood you here. So i'm not saying you are doing it wrong and if it works in your group great, i just see a risk here. Would you like to expand a little on your situation, please? Are you the GM in that szenario? In that case, that realy is a very kind help you are offering. Are you a player known for expertise in that field? Here it starts to get bad for me. If you offer help first and deliver it after i accept, great. As a sudden infodump out of nowhere, it would be far less welcome. Did you have to research the specialisation of my character to give me that info first? Nope, that's way to much intrusion into my character and its story for a different player to make.
@unknownv312
5 жыл бұрын
@@Gnarlf As I said, I dislike doing it. When I'm the GM and lets say the players want to get all the tools to refine and craft metal into weapons, I'll make a list of stuff they need (Because I try to be quite accurate to real life). Last time I did this as a player, the cobbler didn't know what tools to get, and nor did the GM, so I said "Well you need the thing to shape the shoe around, shoe nails, a hide hammer, a burnishing tool, etc" then quickly explain most of these can also work as leather tools, for the leather crafter. On one hand, I know the GM in the game where I'm a player, likes realism as well, and that he likes that I do these lists. On the other, I'm kinda speaking for someone else, whose character will know what he needs, but the player doesn't, so I'm kinda speaking for his character (which I hate). This all really depends on how much realism you want tho, as I said the GM likes realism, and when I GM, I like realism, even when its high fantasy etc. With less detail just say "I want a cobbler's kit" or something.
@thewackerly
4 жыл бұрын
I play a bard in Pathfinder. Bards can make any knowledge check without prior training. I, the player, know quite a lot of information across many subjects. My character is well-travelled, and I use that as my justification for trying stuff outside of what my character is expected to know. That being said, I will ask to roll for it, and if I fail the roll, I shut up and move on.
@levishackelton4437
5 жыл бұрын
I’m in a couple games. In one group, we are friends and we don’t get very serious most of the time. It is just for fun and laughs. So there, we don’t really care if meta knowledge is used. But in my other group, it more of a serious campaign. In that one, we tried our hardest to avoid using meta knowledge. It’s actually funny, our barbarian with a -1 to history checks succeeds more than the Bard with her +6. He plays it that his guy loves historically accurate comic books.
@sulrandir6100
5 жыл бұрын
Sorry for being an obnoxious nerd, but going to a LARP won’t teach sword fighting, studying or practicing historical martial arts will give you an idea, as rules of context and( ruleset for sparring and sport practices that “try” to reproduce actual fighting) different mindset bring to a radically different experience. Sorry, I was triggered. Now coming to a useful comment. It’s inevitable that sometimes in role-playing nobody at the table doesn’t have any idea of how something works. I think this video hits a spot: this is collaborative storytelling, so people should talk, interact while playing. Sometimes it breaks immersion but is necessary to avoid annoying situations and fights between players: preemptively discuss and decide. Otherwise use dice. Thank you sir, darn interesting video as usual.
@jeffstormer2547
5 жыл бұрын
The degree to which I metagame as a GM depends on my group. I encourage the middle/high school students to investigate things and reward demonstrations of their research. For example, if a player show me a popsicle stick catapult, I would almost certainly allow his character to know something about such siege engines. It he can consistently hit a target with it, I'd likely award XP or Rp pts or some other ingame prize. Even more so if one of.the kids plays a hard and breaks into song (or writes a wrap or a parody of some tune that popular with them). Those tables I run specifically as super fun ways to teach all manner of things and I'm up front about it even prior to session 0. I will also tell them that they can look up all manner of "ancient tech" to learn they weren't as primitive as we often think they were and be creative with the knowledge. Could there have been a Rlman hot air balloon? Maybe. Show me some evidence that the cloth was woven tight enough or that the wax or bitumen covering wouldn't burst into flame or whatever. Creative thinking. I'll often reward then for creativity even if it doesn't work. I'll also let their character die testing that canvas and bamboo hang glider if that's what works best. I also know there are some hard limits. They might know the ingredients of gunpowder and they might even know the proper ratios (Abigail Adams 2nd First Lady did). Doesnt mean that their Bronze age barbarian would have a clue. And without exception this far (knock on wood), they all get it. But then, I also tend to run more of an ICRPG/XDM flavored game not a tournament. The fewer the rules the better. "Is is plausible? You as the player have 30 seconds to convince me." Loving the content as always, Guy!
@doktor_ghul
5 жыл бұрын
I basically created a character that has a magical form of multiple personality syndrome, and one of his personalities is...me at the table. So Wiley K'Yote is so meta that he KNOWS that he's a fictional character in a role playing game, and he has a voice in his head who has access to all my memories, all my perceptions, and all my insights about the game. Problem is, most of the time, the other characters in-game think he's a raving lunatic who just happens to have damned good ideas sometimes. He's a trap master and a knowledge library, but he's also complaining about ghosts rolling dice and shuffling paper around. I love playing him, and other players never know what he'll do, but somehow, it works out well for the quest they're on.
@dracone4370
5 жыл бұрын
It's also a good idea to consult resources that can help you with your character when away from the game whenever possible. Coming back to the alchemy example, Lockstin of Lockstin and Gnoggin has several videos where he references alchemical practice and theory, even stating in quite a few of his videos that he finds alchemy a point of interest to him. Now, Lockstin's channel of Lockstin and Gnoggin recently underwent a priority shift, and now the channel is primarily a Pokemon channel, that all said, he still uses the videos that are clearly Pokemon themed to talk about alchemy and alchemical theory whenever the opportunity presents itself.
@Aktuvor
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this video, raising awareness for this is very important. Had it a lot with groups in the past and people generally don't even know that they are metagaming. Thumbs up and keep up the good work
@himanshuwilhelm5534
3 жыл бұрын
My character has 22 wisdom. I caught myself doing this a few time, though no one else caught me. So in campaign journals, I roleplay it as my overly high perception piercing the viel, occaisonally hearing a clattering of dice.
@Wyrdnairon
5 жыл бұрын
Hey! Something that you actually mentioned in the last seconds of the video is an issue I've found with players. Sometimes the problem is smart players playing dumb characters, but what do you do if you have dumb players, playing smart characters? The players don't have ideas, but wouldn't their character know what to do? Personally at that point I'd make rolls for them, or ask for an Intelligence roll, and based on that, give them hints. It's a form of metagaming, sure, but isn't a part of roleplaying getting to pretend to be what you're not?
@CobaltGM
5 жыл бұрын
Another Awesome Video. Thanks to this video, I can now start a conversation with certain players who are.. experts.
@DarinMcGrew
5 жыл бұрын
I've played in groups where any information your character would keep secret had to be kept secret from all the other players. There were lots of passed notes and private conversations with the GM. Fortunately, the group I play with now is pretty good at separating character knowledge from player knowledge, so everyone can be more open about such things.
@momqabt
5 жыл бұрын
On the point if the character received training: yes this is why skills are very important in my builds. Which I also find very strange that I need to manipulate the he mechanics for it. I'm a skilled driver, I can ride a horse, staer a carriage, shoot a bow with both grip types in western and Asian style,I can shoot sidearms, I'm athletic, I can pick locks, I know a lot about physics and biology, I know a lot about religion (and a lot of misticism related stuff) survival, cooking, electronics, I'm an electrotechnician, a locksmith, a car bodywork mechanic, a trained firefighter, I know some military doctrines, I can swim, sale, trained in hygiene and food hygiene, gastronomy the list goes on and on...yet to do this in a game mechanics point of view I'd have to have way too diverse a background, race, a multiskill class, hell even multiclass...yet as a person I don't think this would apply. If I'm able to be all these as a 30+ yr old person, why is my elf restricted to this concept or hell even more if I'm playing them as a learned soldier? In that case they couldn't reflect this vast knowledge with their 300+ years.
@nickwilliams8302
5 жыл бұрын
And this is why it's always just as easy to justify your PC knowing something you know as it is for someone to claim they "shouldn't" know it.
@sgc1117
5 жыл бұрын
Ok question, and dw I'm perfectly fine at listening to my GMs rules on this, cause its his game, so this is more just a general question. I am a biologist irl, and my character is a druid in game. Now, specifically, I feel my character would know a lot about animals that they grew up around/in the terrain they learnt how to be a druid in, to the point that I've had them think up solutions, purely from what I think they'd know. In this example, snakes behavioural patterns. We hadn't gotten into combat yet, but one of the new players specifically triggered a very obvious trap releasing a giant constrictor snake. We're in a pretty low level campaign, so this was going to be quite a challenge. Long story short, my teammates were suggesting speak to animals spell but I didn't have it prepared. What I did have, is the knowledge of how snakes behave that makes them specifically "Dance" to flute music, is not the music itself but the pattern of movement of the end of the flute, basically because snakes are very curious creatures, and much like the cat with the laser pointer, will be entranced and distracted by these things. And I get that its a fantasy creature, but its supposed to be a non magical beast, so it should generally follow the same behaviour as other snakes. (And the wizard had cast detect magic before on it so it definitely wasn't magical) But basically the GM got really upset at me for 'Metagaming'. Way more so than I would have expected considering it wasn't even a necessary encounter, that it was a trap we could have easily avoided. Now, I'm fairly new to D&D, this is my second group and the only group that's lasted more than a few campaigns, so I've been really trying hard not to metagame, to the point I am choosing a druid to play mainly because I feel like I can get good practice in. Would you guys consider this metagaming? And basically my GMs complaint is that I should have to roll for that knowledge, but the thing is, He knows way less about biology (he's more a physics and mathematics guy) than me and didn't know that, so he probably wouldn't have been able to give me that info even if I did roll for it. Anyway failed the roll, nbd the game went on, we bet the snake in combat (Though he got mad at me again, for basically saying constrictor snakes aren't venomous, something a druid who can turn into a constrictor snake would also know, which lead to the party changing up their tactics and letting me damage sponge without fearing I'd die from snake venom). It was just a really weird moment/session for me and moments like this that keep happening throughout the campaign I feel like are stifling my ability to role play my character. Kinda feels like if I were a Paladin who didn't know any of the religious orders/worshipped gods in their home country. Anyway what do you guys think? Am I metagaming? Or is it reasonable to assume that if your character has a certain class/background that they may know some of the things you do?
@varashamus7633
3 жыл бұрын
I feel like your example with the snake was not one of actual metagaming on your part. Perhaps your gm was irritated with your higher degree of knowledge, maybe he was irritated with your group in regards to their progress through the situation being 'not what he'd intended' and maybe he'd had some bad food for lunch.
@rashkavar
5 жыл бұрын
It's worth noting that if you're deliberately suppressing player knowledge, you can go too far as well. For the elephant example, as someone who knows nothing about elephant behavior, I do know that if it's trumpeting loudly, runs a few steps toward me and stops, etc, that is a sign that the elephant does not appreciate my presence and is kindly requesting that I leave immediately...or face the wrath of a much larger, stronger creature with feet that are excellently sized for trampling puny human. (I don't know if this is a situation where you back away slowly or run; I know backing away is the better approach for predators because they instinctively chase things that run from them if they think they can catch them, and I'm not outrunning anything that eats meat exclusively, but perturbed large herbivores...not sure how they'd react to someone moving quickly if it's not toward them.) Animals are pretty decent at showing open aggression. The subtler cues that might precede such a display, of course, are harder to pick up on if you don't know that particular kind of animal very well.
@andrewdavis200
5 жыл бұрын
Agreed. There's a difference between knowing specific anatomical details of the elephant and knowing general things. Unless you are playing a character who was literally born yesterday, then they would actually know things. Sure they wouldn't know the details of each nobility ruling the sword coast, but they would know about the flaming fists if they grew up in Baldur's Gate.
@samuelyork5265
5 жыл бұрын
"All villages need access to the aqueduct for sewage... does your character know that?" Why wouldn't they? They are presumably a person who lives in such a village. And even if it's something they wouldn't know, who cares? Sneaking in through an aqueduct seems like a smart and interesting solution to the problem. Theres nothing wrong with metagaming, cmv.
@Leafy1-j1l
5 жыл бұрын
That's not metagaming, that's just gaming. Metagaming is abusing out-of-character knowledge. If your character has lived in a village with access to an aqueduct for sewage disposal, then that's in-character knowledge - that the player also knows.
@samuelyork5265
5 жыл бұрын
@@Leafy1-j1l The relevant point being "even if it's something they wouldn't know." Imo, a cool idea is a cool idea. I'd just ask the player to make up a funny story about how they found out that piece of information, and roll with it.
@Konnkord
5 жыл бұрын
To be fair, I'm pretty sure not everyone knows how his city's or village's sewer system works in our times.
@AuntieHauntieGames
5 жыл бұрын
I do not mind metagame knowledge quite so much when running a game. What does bug me is when people try to apply real life scientific knowledge to a world built on magic, and then insist and insist again that this solution they came up with based on their high school knowledge of physics MUST work because Google says the math checks out, while totally ignoring the fact that the AD&D world is not a world of Physics but is a world of Magic where real life bogus sciences (like Natural Philosophy) are correct. Ooooh it sets my eyes to rolling.
@matthewroach4729
5 жыл бұрын
This does bring up a very good topic of discussion regarding intelligence and how to balance its organic traits with a need for a dice roll. Needing to roll the dice to remember something from knowledge on a topic would suggest that the character has trouble with memory recall. Is this a mental condition that all D&D or Pathfinder characters suffer from? Organically my irl brain is not rolling the dice to remember knowledge. My irl brain doesn't do a random dice roll to have an idea. That's how my brain is tuned through both biology and the perceived effects it has been affected by over its life as it's matured. So to fix this for in-game characters, during character creation, intelligence sub-strengths should be added. Intelligence with good memory, intelligence with good problem solving, intelligence with good pattern recognition, ect. And over time through perceived experiences you can add points into your character's intelligence sub-macro categories. Knowledge checks should be yes or no, do I or do I not have this knowledge. Your character only has to do a role if they have memory problems.
@wmmoller
5 жыл бұрын
I will say, you missed one which often comes up if there’s some inter-party competition or conflict: the “ I go search exactly where another party member has hidden something because I, the player, know where it is. Oh, well I’m searching everywhere, but definitely there specifically.” 😉
@nebless-clem
5 жыл бұрын
This is perfectly timed for me, I'm running a game soon set in the Marvel Cinematic Universe so I am expecting metagaming to be a problem. On the plus side, I ran a short four night game to practice the setting and everyone was careful not to metagame, hopefully it stays up for the long run!
@the13inquisitor59
5 жыл бұрын
If I'm playing Sci-fi, I'm assuming my character has at least the education I do, barring specific exceptions like low Int or characters who aren't likely to have had a good education\come from a background that otherwise would be counter to that idea. Fantasy, that falls down the wayside and I disregard most of my personal knowledge most of the time, even for educated PCs. 4:30 It's funny how detail oriented my group can be sometimes. We'll stop and discuss the most minor trivia at times when someone screws up a detail. ADDENDUM: Meanwhile, I'm infamous in my group for having the single highest PC death rate across every game we've ever played, the single fastest PC death and doing stupid shit by dint of not thinking it through. I actually spent a good two months knowing OOC that there was a chaos cult afoot in an Only War game we were playing. My character's buddy knew our Commissar had a communicator to an Inquisitor but he never told my new PC after I made him because Orders from the Inquisition. Fast forward two months and we're fighting the daemon said cult summoned in a Baneblade and not getting too far. Me in the main gun: "Sir, this thing's not budging, we need support. Can't you call an orbit-" Entire table, GM included: Bursts out laughing. I was trying to nudge the Commissar's player without meta gaming the communicator, which everyone else bar the GM had forgotten about and instead, gave us the plan we went with: Nuke it from Orbit.
@mochristie5419
5 жыл бұрын
with the "everyone knows" thing can you not make a case that adventurers aren't idiots and should have a basic knowledge of how not to die in the world itself
@nickwilliams8302
5 жыл бұрын
Yes. You can, and you should.
@chuckchuckerson5364
3 жыл бұрын
I think it's funny when a player in one of my groups starts using meta knowledge to question the realism of a scene. Perfect example: The players to continue through the dungeon had to jump 100 down into water that was 10 feet deep. I figured if they went feet first they could launch themselves off the bottom. Well according to one player who had done a lot of diving, the water would need to be at least 15-20 feet deep for that to be safe. I conceded to his expertise, and made the water 20 ft deep explaining sorry, I was no diving expert. The armor wearers of the group were not too happy with him, as it became a real hassle with the deeper water to navigate the waterways. Meta gaming like this almost always only hurts the other players, the DM has as many resources/Hp as they need. Keep your mouth shut, and enjoy the ride lol.
@highlord24
3 жыл бұрын
This.Is.My.ENTIRE.Group!!!
@pianotm
4 жыл бұрын
Metagaming is fine in moderation. We have to to do it to some extent to just make our parties work together, but if we start doing things that our characters wouldn't do, we should put the brakes on that. Sometimes. Metagaming is okay sometimes. It's something that isn't going to go away because it is ultimately a fantasy game, and often, reality can't help but intrude. On the other end of the spectrum, I play with a guy in a 5E game who would constantly yell at all of us for metagaming for every little thing. One day, I wasn't feeling good, and in addition to him, we've also got "that guy" in our group, and I don't remember what said, but it was something really petty. Like "Wait, didn't this/that/or the other happen earlier? Was my character there? Would she know that?"--something like that--and he started whining about metagaming, and I lit into him. It's not that I would rather metagame, but this guy is constantly acting like that one lawyer in court who doesn't have a case so he's an absolute dickhole that objects to every other sentence the opposing council says. There is a Pathfinder solution to this problem: Vigilante Class. Social Talent: Ancestral Knowledge. Make all knowledge checks untrained and gain plus four to knowledge checks that ARE trained. DM: "Which knowledge skills do you have?" Me: "Yes." Unfortunately, my character is actually much more knowledgeable than mine is, and I have had it pointed out to me by the DM that there were things she should have known but it never came up because I personally didn't know those things. And occasionally, she stops me and says, "Your character would know this."
@ericcadwell5193
5 жыл бұрын
Not sure if I've got real opinions about how to handle this, but you've given me a few good ideas. I run a 3.5/Pathfinder game, and I'm known for handing out extra skill points. A single pantheon spans the entire world, so all new characters get a bonus to religion checks. The most savage of opponents can sit down and have a meaningful dialogue about the goddess of war (before they get up and try to kill each other). I might allow characters that have known each other for a while a few extra skill points between each others' skills. After all, they must generally chat across the campfire or watch each other's techniques in difficult situations. A paladin who's been traveling with a ranger for a long time is bound to pick up a thing or two about plant identification or how to approach a wild animal without spooking it. A fighter who's been long friends with a wizard may just understand a tiny bit of spellcraft - enough to know what his friend is casting, just by looking at the gestures or hearing those arcane words. I'd limit it to about a point per level each, but it really makes sense. I don't even know if I'd even call it a skill point, but perhaps a bonus to an untrained roll, perhaps. I'll have to think about it some.
@larsdahl5528
5 жыл бұрын
I sense you are aware of one of the (many) problems there are with Pathfinder (And the entire D&D family of RPG systems): Skill Points come in meagre chunks almost unrelated to what the characters do and experience. What difference are there between the characters who eagerly studies, and the character who spend most of the time being drunk in the tavern? - None! When the (computer game like) Ping! sounds (Marking level up) they get the same character progress. Yes, I have that same idea: Give the characters some extra Skill Points specialised to what they do and experience. - But! That is not the intend of Pathfinder. You sorted out the snotling problem, thus you can now level up! - Yes, of course you can put a skill point into Linguistics and thus learn a new language (You have never heard anyone speak) and thus now speak it to perfection! --- What I will suggest for you is to switch to a RPG system that fit better to your play style. "Class" and "Level" are simply too rigid constructs and that hinders good role play. So aim for RPG systems not having such. - There are plenty to choose from!
@sigmascrub
3 жыл бұрын
3:59 is proof that bad days make good stories
@Konnkord
5 жыл бұрын
Ahh I remember the survival master Paladin who's never been out of town :) My worst problem (related to this) is: players who try to be these meta-game asses, but they're wrong while doing it. It's not as frequent as I make it sound but it's really annoying, I don't want to spend time arguing that they're wrong especially because when somebody tries to meta-game like that, they firmly believe they're right.
@nikaanuk8233
5 жыл бұрын
I got a player that has medical experience. Doing /anything/ with injuries usually end up with her breaking the character to comment on everything. And she is a really experienced player...
@biggrigg4281
5 жыл бұрын
I ran a few military based campaigns and two of my players were X-military. This was fine, as whenever they wanted to use their military knowledge my game system had a skill for them to roll.
@biggrigg4281
5 жыл бұрын
Also, we were using an RPG system designed for modern to future sci-fi military based campaigns.
@russelljacob7955
5 жыл бұрын
How I overcome metagaming as a DM? Actions are what matters. So if a player decides some extravagant space engineering thing they know how to do and why it should work by inverting polarities. All that matters is "They want to try and invert polarites?" "Make an engineering check" They can roleplay and creative solutions all they want, but as a DM, break it down into steps to make it still on par. They fail check? Sorry. You are unfamiliar with this particular ships conduit systems so cannot bypass safeties. They succeed? "Well, it will take five rounds to go through the process to do so" As a DM, also only give info that the character would get. "You hear a roar" "An elephant crashes through the bush". Let the players assume and keep it open. Let the metagamer meta themself into a dead end. You know why that lion is roaring, and if it doesnt match meta knowledge? You know why. They want to know? Pass a check. That is best tip I know. Make meta irrelevant. It is your world and things work different. If you have a hard metagamer rules lawyer trying to use backstory as an excuse and getting upset that isnt working? Well... do you want them at your table...
@kirkwagner461
5 жыл бұрын
Of late I've found it troubling that a group I play with, from first level characters on wards, approach every combat with their full personal knowledge of what monsters characteristics are like, regardless of whether or not their characters have even seen, or even ever HEARD, of such a creature. Our (latest) party encountered their first troll and I had my cleric try to turn it. What? Why? I explained that it had unhealthy looking skin, much like some of the zombies and ghouls we'd been running into, so it seemed like an undead thing to me. The other players looked at me like I was an alien being. My point is: I know a troll isn't susceptible to a turning attempt, but my character isn't yet vastly experienced. Turning had worked on most other things we had encountered in the area we were exploring, so attempting to turn this big gray/green thing seemed a valid thing to try. Was I wrong?
@larsdahl5528
5 жыл бұрын
Technically what you did was an attempt to role play. - However the game (you are in) seems to be more Yahtzee-Chess than role play. So, as I see it, then it is not so much a meta-gaming problem you have seen, but a (lack of) role playing problem. I would suggest you (out of game) take up this topic (Do we role play? Or do we play Yahtzee-Chess?) with your fellow players. A way to (somewhat) solve this is to ensure that, when starting a new campaign, that the new campaign is hugely different from the one (/those) before: Different setting, different RPG system, etc... This way knowledge gained in the previous campaign(s) is far less likely to interfere.
@Gnarlf
5 жыл бұрын
That's great. :) May i use that as inspiration for the future please. It looks to me like you and the rest of your group have different expectations on how you want to play. This should be resolved in a calm discussion about the situation and maybe they just are not aware. If they are however you have to decide, if you are willing to play that way. Sometimes it just doesn't fit together.
@invidiousone3662
5 жыл бұрын
Nah, that was a great moment of rp/character choice. I always approach things with the belief its a lot more fun if you let your character make mistakes on purpose. Cut your own legs out from under you and then turn to the other characters and ask what the hell happened. Im playing a 7 wisdom character, so I make impulsive choices and dont stop to consider the downsides of a plan even though I am like "mind reading this player character who hates magic will not go over well" my character is like "he wont open up amd talk with us, maybe I can help!"
@dprice1291
3 жыл бұрын
2:14 Where can I find out more specific information on role-playing a game set in the Roman Republic/Empire? Recommended game systems?
@cloudfair2
5 жыл бұрын
Well I had a situation where I as a player had solved this mystery our GM presented us by research I did previously about wererats but I didn’t know if my character would even know what a wererat is so I asked to make a history check that he failed. So I had to find a way to inform my character that didn’t grant him previously unknown knowledge. It was a fun challenge.
@DuckieMcduck
3 жыл бұрын
The true meta for metagame solutions is that you know where you want to get, you just need to figure out the means to get there in a believable way. Maybe you can make the investigation in the game itself playing out the steps you did to get your original research done, and have the DM tell you the answer. This can be done without even suggesting that you in fact meta gamed in order to know what to ask to get your solution.
@im2randomghgh
4 жыл бұрын
LARP isn't a particularly accurate way to reconstruct medieval combat 😅 otherwise great video, point taken and agreed with!
@texteel
5 жыл бұрын
a simple question fixes many problems?: "would my character know this?" Yes/No/Roll X. No? Shut up. Yes? Metagame away. Roll? The GM tells you how huch s/he knows. Done
@sage1387
5 жыл бұрын
One of the easiest ways to not metagame as a player is to accept that your character isn't awesome yet. They become awesome as a result of the adventure, not as a prerequisite to it. Until such time as they become legendary, they are allowed to (and expected to) suck. One of the easiest ways to curb metagaming as a DM is to reskin and homebrew. Any such changes should be something PCs can find through a reasonable amount of investigation; if roleplay is the optimal strategy, then roleplay will be what players tend towards.
@terinatum
5 жыл бұрын
I always worry about this. I'm certain I have done it. I am also the oldest in my group by two decades so personal experience definitely gets in the way.
@petrodeloro
5 жыл бұрын
I as a GM I never had this problem. But I usually have problem with keeping the players engaged. But... I think it's because (my) players don't want that kind of engagement, as they prefer casual play.
@Yarxov
5 жыл бұрын
Need a sci fi campaign where google exists and everyone rolls dexterity to prevent typos while they look for the exact answer to every problem.
@russtdragonking8004
5 жыл бұрын
Ya I do feel like i do this some times becase I just love history so I do this with historical architecture but I am normally the DM which is kind of nice but whenever I am a player I do try my best to play a character that would know about history just so whenever I do metagame when not on purpose but there's no reason why kind of like a safety net.
@Kokorisu
5 жыл бұрын
Im currently playing a Warhammer Fantasy campaign in a full Skaven party and one of the biggest hurdles has been trying to get one of the members to think and act like a Skaven rather than a furry human.
@TheSmart-CasualGamer
2 жыл бұрын
As a long-time Skaven player, if they survive for longer than ten minutes of gameplay time, they're being a Skaven wrong.
@altromonte15
5 жыл бұрын
Or, just always put in your background that your father was a doctor with a hobby for investigations, your mother a biologist that enjoyed hunting, your uncle a historian mechanic and your nanny a sailor/aeroplane pilot/geologist/occultist expert and CIA agent, so you can always say "I would know that becauseI heard it when I was a kid, from someone in my family" no matter the topic
@Gnarlf
5 жыл бұрын
And that is why you should never take the orphan background ^^
@clericofchaos1
5 жыл бұрын
There's nothing wrong with meta-gaming. most people that do it don't even realize they're doing it. they just take what they're saying as common knowledge. "ofcourse my character would know that stars are balls of gas burning millions of miles away, what are they retarded in this game? do they think the stars are just fire flies that flew up into the inky void and got stuck?" See? no harm meant and no harm done. If you are a metagamer who knows what he's doing though the hard part is not getting caught. make subtle edits to your backstory when the gm isn't looking. "yea, my character was an astronomer before he started adventuring. You don't believe me? it's in the backstory you approved."
@rashkavar
5 жыл бұрын
Not sure "places needed an aqueduct to have sewers" is an example of expert knowledge. You need water for sewers, and if you're not talking the last couple of centuries, that means you have an aqueduct. Rome is most known for aqueducts because they're the big empire that did all the massive megaprojects like that, but they're not an exclusively roman thing. Also, Aqueducts tend to be rather large, noticeable structures. If a place is being supplied water with an aqueduct, you're going to see it. These aren't modern pressurized pipe systems that use the height of the lake up in the mountains where you draw your water from (or pumps, if said water source is not so conveniently located), they're strictly just a sloped water channel of some kind with a supporting structure - often open to the air, meaning you don't get the pressurized water system benefits at all. This means they're generally above ground for most of the distance; maybe coming in around basement level or just below if you've got servants to carry it up, ground level or higher if you're trying to run fountains or irrigate a garden like at the Alhambra.
@rowdyparks6770
5 жыл бұрын
This is the kind of asshat response you get from "experts".
@Vote4Drizzt
5 жыл бұрын
I think you're hitting on the fact that what seems esoteric to a modern person would have been as normal to them as traffic signs. It would not take a genius to know that red means stop
@nickwilliams8302
5 жыл бұрын
@@Vote4Drizzt And this is the thing. If the PCs are living in a city with sewers, they'd know about them. It doesn't break the game for the players to realise that a villa connected to the sewer system might just possibly be connected to the sewer system. On the contrary, it leads to an awesome stealth infiltration mission through the sewers, fighting any number of weird creatures that have colonised this urban ecosystem.
@knightofyourlife
4 жыл бұрын
This was a skill in Warhammer fantasy role play called blather.
@steakslapn9724
5 жыл бұрын
This is off topic, but can we get a video of you just showing off all your costumes and fancy dress outfits, but if you do you need to get in character for each outfit. Lol.
@Gnarlf
5 жыл бұрын
great video and i should check myself more often in that regard. thank you for the reminder. Sidequestion: You are siting again. Were you displeased how the new setup turned out or is it just to change it up?
@HowtobeaGreatGM
5 жыл бұрын
I am in the USA for GenCon and my standing desk is in Japan. I'll be standing the moment I'm back in Japan :)
@jorgejustin461
5 жыл бұрын
The classic example of this is fire being good against trolls. Every person who has any more than surface level knowledge about fantasy settings knows this and asking players to pretend they don't is frankly silly. As long as people do not read the adventure or the monster manual then as far as I am concerned most meta-gaming is harmless.
@AustinSenpai
5 жыл бұрын
i was talking about this to my players just today!
@thehulkster9434
5 жыл бұрын
I'm of the opinion that something that would be considered common knowledge in real life (or even common knowledge to genre fans or fans of the RPG) should be considered common knowledge in game provided everyone at the table is somewhat familiar with the information. We all know vampires are vulnerable to sunlight, so if vampires exist in this world, the characters probably know that too. On the other hand, specialty knowledge that no one else at the table would have (wildlife training, military knowledge, survival skills, advance mathematical training or whatever else might come up in game) should only be brought up if your character actually has the proper training to imply that they also would have that knowledge. I would on the other hand be okay with someone offering up information to a proficient character if it is something that the other person might not be able to come up with. People shouldn't be penalized for not having the skills their characters logically would, especially if someone at the table could help. Some cooperative metagaming is fine as long as it is welcomed by the other person.
@Gnarlf
5 жыл бұрын
You mean like the common knowledge that witches float when you drop them in the lake? :P We have to think hard about the setting and be honest to ourselfs. Would we realy know things, that a painstakingly ovious for us in the real world? There is a vast difference in the spread of information today than in medieval times. Would you even have heard of vampires if normaly there are none in your region of the world? Would i know that a cross repells vampires if i am a buddist? Would i know that vampires sleep in coffins if my people exclusively cremate their dead and spread them into the wind? There is no internet or televison in dnd and not everybody can or want to read.
@thehulkster9434
5 жыл бұрын
@@Gnarlf except d&d is by no means medieval, and in most settings I have encountered (which are usually high magic as a baseline) the spread of information actually probably would be fairly fast. Not quite like the mass media of today, but certainly comparable to the post telephone world. Rapid transportation is available in the form of teleportation and long range communication is fairly simple with magic. These aren't medieval worlds, at best they have a medieval paintjob spread across a world that is a mix of modern ideas, fantasy tropes, and a bit of old west conventions. You don't break the setting by assuming modern knowledge, magic alone has already done a lot to clearly separate the setting from anything vaguely resembling medieval times. Also, there's the consideration of ease of gaming. Do we really need to play dumb with every situation or monster? It's neither fun nor dramatic to pretend that none of us know about something despite everyone knowing (in my opinion at least).
@Gnarlf
5 жыл бұрын
@@thehulkster9434 fair point. And if your group has fun with it, all the better. I experience generaly toned down settings where magic doesn't change everything and is not that wide spread, but this is s good reminder, that not all groups are the same. I forget that sometimes.
@woojlebert3953
5 жыл бұрын
In my group, we only meta-game, talk about our characters in 3rd person, and pretty much have constant open communication about every piece of information.
@BoojumFed
5 жыл бұрын
There are a lot of tables like that, yeah. As long as everyone's on the same page and having fun, doesn't matter much.
@Br1cht
5 жыл бұрын
Pleb!;)
@WolvieXXXZandalari
5 жыл бұрын
Did u turn that rhino into a suit for this episode?
@darchendon7926
4 жыл бұрын
how do you deal with the reversal of meta gaming i.e. your character knows more about something than you personally do. do you just go ahead and research so you know what's up? Or do I just go ahead and do some bullshittery but keep said bullshittery consistant?
@vashnar1252
5 жыл бұрын
I hate meta gameing it's been a huge problem for me in my experiences as a dm. I know this is a player vid but I just had to vent. Good tips for when I play in my next game.
@SoulTheScytheOG
5 жыл бұрын
Easily the most frustrating part of metagaming to me is when players metagame solutions to problems. I understand how easy it is to act in the game like how you would respond in a video game, but when it blatantly goes against a what their character would do it ruins my immersion.
@nickwilliams8302
5 жыл бұрын
So, you think they would have more fun if they deliberately failed?
@zarutodaskira
5 жыл бұрын
@@nickwilliams8302 if you think that a character wouldnt do or know something, yeah, because you are roleplaying.
@atlasveldine6314
5 жыл бұрын
Is the point of your roleplaying game to perfectly play your made-up characters lives to every minute detail and be 100% accurate? Or, is the point of your roleplaying game to sit down and have fun telling a compelling story with your friends? Because in this scenario, if the point is to perfectly roleplay the characters, then sure yeah they need to absolutely pretend like they didn't come up with that plan and waltz their characters in to a swift death. But, if the point is actually to sit down and have fun with your friends telling a fun story, then it actually doesn't matter just how accurate you are with your roleplaying, because the entire point is to have fun and tell a fun story. Personally, I'd hate playing a TTRPG with you, because when I come up with that cool idea and you look at me annoyed because my "character would never have come up with that idea" I'd likely throw down my papers and leave the game. That's not fun at all.
@SoulTheScytheOG
5 жыл бұрын
@@atlasveldine6314 Please notice how I said "blatantly". Also the point isn't to stop people from doing cool things, but rather to encourage them to do cool things in a way different from other party members. Character differences are partially what makes encounters memorable and fun, and if every solution is just the most logical solution then that leaves a quite more boring session.
@atlasveldine6314
5 жыл бұрын
@@SoulTheScytheOG right -- but you'd rather your companions simply waltz into a situation they know will kill them simply because their characters wouldn't know that? For instance, my group of characters have never dealt with acid before. They couldn't even know it's a thing. Just looks like a pool of liquid. You'd want me to roleplay my character walking into that and having my feet melt off rather than "metagame" and find another way past it because I know that pool is acid. My point is, metagaming is unavoidable. It's one thing if your players have read through the setting and bestiary and are using that information to cheese through fights. It's another if they're innocently using information they know to be true because they live in this century. If you want your players to avoid using urinatio information they have about how things work, don't put them in those situations to begin with. If you're playing with people who have seen every monster in the book, make new ones. If your players know what acid does, but their characters don't, don't put them up against acid. Don't put them in the position where they have to think about what information they have versus their character. It's not fun, it will never be fun, and hearing people whine about metagaming is absolutely irritating. Play the game and have fun with it and stop worrying about having perfect roleplay because it will never happen.
@toxacokami7216
5 жыл бұрын
Good points!
@TimothyMReynolds
4 жыл бұрын
This is worth a watch if only to honour the term “meta-ass”.
@supercalifragic1551
5 жыл бұрын
I can't help but to metagame. Everyone else in my group is all about "Theater of the Mind". But I hate feeling like I don't have a foundation... So I google the maps of the campaign we're in. Otherwise I'd never have a map to ground myself with, and would be disconnected from the game. It does mean I see things I shouldn't see, but I would like to say I'm good at not abusing that. What I do leverage though, I do in ways I hope will help the game keep moving well when there's a lull. I don't like not knowing things, but I also dislike blatant metagaming.
@stardragon9764
5 жыл бұрын
Meta-game is rly bad thing and iam trying to control myself, and also trying to correct my friends during the game) Thx for video, it may help :3
@nickwilliams8302
5 жыл бұрын
1. Metagaming is mostly a good thing. 2. When it is a bad thing it is almost always the GM's fault. 3. Please do not try to tell the other players what their characters do and don't know.
@stardragon9764
5 жыл бұрын
@@nickwilliams8302 in our party roleplay is very important, because sometimes one of us is traitor and we have some reason to trying make metagame level less in our party, than it is
@MyBrosephstalin
5 жыл бұрын
Typically your player character knows far more about the world they live in than the player themselves. I'd fault myself as a GM for not getting everyone on the same footing knowledge wise than fault the player for researching what their character would know.
@nickwilliams8302
5 жыл бұрын
This. "How would your character possibly know this city has a sewer system?" "Um, because he has an arse and hasn't been shitting his pants the whole time we've been here."
@kaiceecrane3884
5 жыл бұрын
Well, LARP is not equal to sword fighting experience, that would be like saying laser tag is shooting experience
@ragnarhelder9562
5 жыл бұрын
"Don't worry, I've played Call of Duty!"
@kaiceecrane3884
5 жыл бұрын
@@ragnarhelder9562 lol
@anthonynorman7545
5 жыл бұрын
But larping is closer than that. It's more like playing catch vs playing football. There's some transferrable things.
@kaiceecrane3884
5 жыл бұрын
@@anthonynorman7545 ehhh, not really. LARP doesn't really teach any useful sword fighting skills
@anthonynorman7545
5 жыл бұрын
@@kaiceecrane3884 awareness of surroundings, not flailing wildly, understanding the power of reach, not letting your shield arm go too low, lowering panic of having someone charging or attacking aggressively. There's a little bit of transference.
@jimbillyjenkims
5 жыл бұрын
Okay, in defense of the "Literacy" argument, every 5e race is fluent both in reading and writing common and, in some cases, 1 or 2 other languages...
@cptbfrank
5 жыл бұрын
If I know something and think my character would or may know it I ask my dm my character would know it. That allows my dm to tell me yes no or roll after he sets a DC in his head. If it breaks what we are doing he will just say no. If it fits my back story or training orwhat could be common knowledge it's a roll or a yes
@larsdahl5528
5 жыл бұрын
I think a better question is: "What do my character know?". Instead of "I know, but do my character know that too?". As it opens up for that your character can know things you do not.
@cptbfrank
5 жыл бұрын
@@larsdahl5528 I was addressing the metagaming aspect, it's not uncommon for me to ask if my character would know something, but that isn't what I was talking about.
@lynxfirenze4994
5 жыл бұрын
I can say very early on: no. Just because I don't have deep enough knowledge :P That said I can be a bit. Since I have a broad knowledge. Though I generally try to keep a lid on it.
@briancline7349
4 жыл бұрын
“I’ve gone to LARPS, I know what sword fighting is like...” ... umm I’m sorry but I think people actually experienced in sword fighting would take exception to that... go ask any of the HEMA (Historic European Martial Arts) KZitemrs about that and see what they have to say about that little statement. And think about the difference a year or even the better part of a life time of training could make and reconsider if you really know what sword fighting is like because you and a bunch of fellow nerds were out in the woods playing with foam swords. Similar with your point about how in a general melee hitting your allies as much as your enemies... perhaps that had something to do with you all being an untrained rabble playing a harmless game? Funny how we don’t have records from, say, Roman Legionaries saying the same the thing...
@TheSmart-CasualGamer
4 жыл бұрын
As a sport fencer, lots of HEMA people often come across as either absolute nutcases, or as pretentious jerks. But that's because I've only seen the ones who are complaining about fencing not being a martial art.
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