The silver lining of WOTC's recent mistakes is that now a bunch of people are considering other options. I hear people complain about 5e players not trying anything new, but in the last year I've seen a large positive shift towards variety & novelty.
@TheSavageGoose
11 ай бұрын
The Savage Worlds Reddit is flooded with "D&D Refugees" lately, which is great, as long as people actually accept them and be happy they are there. I have seen some rudeness of "this question gets asked every week" which I get, but also, guys, new people, help them out.
@pacio49
11 ай бұрын
I switched from 5e to Savage Worlds myself after OGL/Pinkterons issues. My group has been patient as we transition to the new system. I like it for a lot of reasons, but primarily because it makes writing scenarios a lot easier for planning out the pacing. I'm still doing one advancement a session, and it forces the Ranks (5e Tiers) to be considered as the chapters of a campaign. Tells you how often you should be placing the Boss fight Sessions, when to focus on Leads and Allies, when to do the Underlings & Opposition kinda scenes, and when its Grand Melee time. And there's so many tools which are just there for when you want to beef things up without getting specific or giving the Party a future weapon to use against their foes (at least not right away). Use the rules you need and no more. Loving the system so far.
@mikec64
Жыл бұрын
The Loyalty hindrance can really enhance role playing outside of combat. Loyal to a friend? What if they cheat on a test or run up a gambling debt or commit murder? What if they're not loyal back, or anything but abusive? I love Savage Worlds because it really makes room for the story.
@TheSavageGoose
Жыл бұрын
I agree. I think Savage Worlds just has a better mechanical focus on storytelling.
@AegixDrakan
Жыл бұрын
I still enjoy playing D&D (it helps I have a good group) But when it comes to me RUNNING games (which I tend to do a lot)? I have gone full Savage Worlds and have never looked back. For all the reasons you said. It's *SO* much easier to make fun encounters that feel good in Savage Worlds because of the simple Wound System, and the fact that most enemies go down on the first wound. Combat rarely drags on. I'm also a HUGE fan of having all the options that I do. Testing your foe, tricky on-hold strategies, Wild Attacks, etc etc allow for a lot more than D&D's "I do this thing, which does damage in this one specific way, roll d20". Finally, Ace chains (getting a new dice when you roll the max number) is always fun to see, whether it's a player doing something cool, or the enemy about to ruin a character's day. :P ...Finally Finally, Bennies are just plain fun.
@nateshandy2070
Жыл бұрын
I hate Armor Class, personally. Armor doesn't make you harder to hit, it makes GETTING hit hurt less.
@TheSavageGoose
Жыл бұрын
That is another thing I like about Savage Worlds with Parry vs Toughness.
@franlewis507
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, someone else covering my favorite TTRPG! I whole heatedly agree with all your reasons.
@TheSavageGoose
11 ай бұрын
What are your favorite things about Savage Worlds?
@yuaelt
11 ай бұрын
Oh, I do agree, absolutely. However, my main reasons for not being very fond of DnD are two very generic features of it: 1) it's so freaking huge and complex. Spells and classes are two elements you mentioned, I'd also add the myriad of races, weapons and other equipments, and techniques for non-casters, all of which you have to read about and learn to mix well, to build a balanced character. It takes ages to create it, and then to learn to play it, and honestly, also quite a bit of old hard coin to access all the materials, since the portfolio of resources is huge too. 2) The focus on combat. I know, that's a polarizing opinion, becuase there's nothing inherently wrong with it. But IMHO, if you take the unspoken rule to have combat in almost every session, add the fact leveling up mostly increases combat skills, the unrealistic HP mechanics, the long turns (and waiting times), and everyone's favourite pauses to check how stuff works... the resulting blow can send any actual role playing down to proverbial death rolls in a flash. Yes, of course, the style of play depends on the GM and players, I'm sure there'll be a bunch of people personally offended by what I just said XD. I'm not saying DnD players can't get into character, only that - when plainly comparing systems - DnD is, perhaps surprisingly, not a particularly role-oriented rpg.
@FlashBIOS
Жыл бұрын
Fantastic video. I hope you continue! I’m desperate for more quality Savage Worlds channels.
@TheSavageGoose
Жыл бұрын
Working on editing a "How to make a savage Worlds Character" video currently. I am hoping to make more, just need to sit down and wite some scripts. Happy to hear any video ideas as well to add to my list.
@FlashBIOS
Жыл бұрын
@@TheSavageGoose Awesome! This is my biggest struggle right now: As a D&D-refugee-wannabe, after decades of playing my players and I can create a D&D character from 3.5e, Pathfinder, and 5E in minutes. We know what to pick, and what it "means" when we pick what we do in D&D. We're not there in Savage Worlds, as we don't have enough behind-the-wheel time. So, things like: I know what 10 vs. 18 in an attribute in D&D means, and what a good level 1 value is, but I don't have a feel for the equivalent in SW. And, the breadth of edges is an advantage -- up until it leads to decision paralysis. I know a beginning 3.5e Fighter should choose the Power Attack feat if they don't know what else to choose, but how do I guide my players when they don't know what to choose in SW? It is starting from scratch, relearning for SW all the institutional knowledge that we've accumulated from D&D, that I'm hoping to be able to smooth out for my players so that there's less reasons to stick with the old and broken, but familiar, systems.
@TheSavageGoose
Жыл бұрын
@@FlashBIOS Ah, I see. The character creation video may help with that, but this sounds more like another video idea I had, which is something like "D&D habits to forget when you play Savage Worlds." I would remember these essential things. Savage Worlds characters start at level 4 and end at level 8. Then they get an advance; they don't tend to get more powerful, or if they do, not by a lot, and instead tend to get more interesting. I find that the extended time it takes me to create a character in Savage Worlds is not because I don't know what to do; it's more that I am trying to decide what fits best thematically for what I am trying to accomplish. You will notice that in the character creation video once I finish it.
@FlashBIOS
Жыл бұрын
@@TheSavageGoose Wonderful! I’m looking forward to it.
@mikec64
Жыл бұрын
@@TheSavageGoose there are a lot of videos about the basics of creating a savage world's character. I hope you'll skip ahead to some of the more intermediate topics. And maybe for a real challenge, how to run a heist in Savage worlds.
@waifusmith4043
Жыл бұрын
these reasons by and large are why I switched to pf2e. I liked 5e but too many things within it felt too restricting. I like the mechanical depth that pf2e has, and having more control over my stats (groups I was in with 5e were fairly optimization heavy) pf2e has more classes (and seem to be regularly releasing new classes), my favorite being the magus because I hadn't been able to get the kind of magic swordsman I wanted in 5e. Hero points are sort of like inspiration but RAW you start the session with 1 and can have up to three, which I like. Inspiration always irked me because it never seemed to be rewarded, so having something you can start with is nice. The magic system I think is a little better than 5e's. Each class pulls from 1 of 4 spell sources (Primal, Arcane, Occult and Divine). Some classes can choose between certain spell traditions, and focus spells means you can have access to a few leveled spells when your slots run out. You can delay your turn similarly to how you described in savage worlds but I don't think you can interrupt a turn with it. I'm still fairly new to pf2e, but I'll look into Savage Worlds as well. I'm always looking for new systems to try out.
@TheSavageGoose
Жыл бұрын
The little I played of Pf2E that I played I really enjoyed. I liked that there was options when I leveld up, and I did not necessarily just had to take the next option from my class. However, I have heard that as you get to higher levels things can bog down, or something of the sort.
@midnightprince30
Ай бұрын
SWADE is also far more realistic in all settings. Notice Gandalf uses few spells and actually fights with his staff just as much if not more than hurling fireballs?
@Syndicate_01
Жыл бұрын
Good video! I also completely left the 5th Edition scene a long time ago, (started DMing when 3.5 was brand new when I was a teenager), but instead joined the OSR movement (B/X and AD&D 1st Ed in particular, plus Mork Borg and other games like that). I played in a Savage Worlds game and while the system didn't really click for me overall, I totally found a lot of value in some of the rules. Like "trappings" to customize individual spells are something I've always house-ruled into my games anyhow (to a limited extent) so it was cool to see them codified. And the ability to spend extra points to add flair to your spells is highly reminiscent of the Psionics system from 3.5, actually, which is cool too. I also run Hold Action / Ready Actions the same way as in Savage Worlds now having played it. That's my favorite thing about the rules-light, slightly more pulpy takes on retro D&D, they're great engines that you can overlay customized rules onto super nicely to fit the style of game that you and your players want. Of course I'd take Savage Worlds over 5th Ed any day though!
@TheSavageGoose
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing your experience !
@TylerSkylionChilders
Жыл бұрын
It's like I've been saying....for forty years!
@mavfan21
Жыл бұрын
I agree with what you said, but I found using Index Card RPG as a tool kit with some of what I liked about d20 games made for a much smoother, versatile and easy to hack game than Savage Worlds. I wanted to like Savage Worlds so badly, even bought the Savage Pathfinder box, but the separate mechanics for melee/ranged combat, the high whiff factor, and keeping track of all the edges/hindrances, power points, and more was making the game go much slower than I like.
@TheSavageGoose
Жыл бұрын
I am not familiar with Index Card RPG, though it accurately describes a few RPGs I have read. I will have to investigate it. The fact that you have a high whiff factor is interesting. I find that most players have the reverse feeling, that players almost never miss.
@mavfan21
10 ай бұрын
@@TheSavageGoose Thanks to your videos I am going to give Savage Worlds another try and am excited about it! By whiff factor I meant that it was a bummer to "hit" but not penetrate toughness.
@drunkendelver1966
Жыл бұрын
I totally agree with most of your points. As someone who's been playing a wizard in 5e, the spells are a freaking nightmare. My next character in 5e is gonna be a basic ass fighter for this exact reason. Personally, I'm trying out Dungeon World for future games, but I do have a lot of respect for Savage Worlds, because it does a lot of things I like. Point 1: A static target number for most checks. Did you roll a 4 or higher? Awesome, you do the thing. Easily beats coming up with a fluid DC, and speeds up the game considerably. Point 2: Exploding Dice. I love, love, LOVE exploding dice. I loved them ever since I bought Savage Worlds for $10 on a whim, and I love them in any game that has them. Queation, what's better than rolling a Natural 20? Succeeding on an unskilled d4 roll with a total of 24. *mic drop*
@Jokervision744
6 ай бұрын
I'm full on noob, like never really played one game, but I am leaning towards savage worlds, and that is partially because of "me, myself, and die".
@matunusdonnerhammer3423
Ай бұрын
While I disagree on classes setting you on a pre-defined role, as you can always multiclass and choose subclasses that fit your concept, I also think that a class based system usually requires more planning on how to realize your build. In D&D creating a build usually means that at character creation you already know what feat and class you take at level 20. So to summarize: I don't think classes set you on a pre-defined role, but they do set you a pre-defined path of advancement.
@TheSavageGoose
Ай бұрын
A predefined path may be a better descriptor of my problem. Thanks!
@Stefogre
11 ай бұрын
I didn't read through all the comments so I might be repeating... #1 Hate that you have to declare Inspiration usage before the roll. Insp. is rare enough and you might just waste it on a double high roll. Bennies can be used after a bad roll : a lot better. #2 hate the fixed initiative in DnD. Go round and round always in the same order. Rolling a high initiative is only usefull in the first round. SW keeps you on the edge of your seat 'cause you never know exactly when you will go + gives a way better result value to someone who's actually Quick (edge).
@timparks9833
4 ай бұрын
My reason for Savage Worlds is it has Deadlands. That alone is enough. But having a simple system that lets you do literally anything you want with balanced mechanics helps too.
@NeurosenkavalierEmilSinclair
3 ай бұрын
Bennies are very useful if you don't make them too strong. I often handle situations where players have good ideas (consistent with the logic of the world but too strong) with letting them pay a bennie for it. Because if you refuse every good idea they get frustrated, if you give in every time it gets to easy. With a bennie they pay a price but still can continue.
@Thagomizer
Жыл бұрын
Class-based systems make sense in a game world that assumes a pseudo-medieval social structure, like in D&D. The medieval world was a place where guilds and apprenticeships were everything, and occupations were so specialized that most people spent their entire lives dedicating themselves to one particular craft. We take things like social mobility and widespread education for granted, when they would really not be assumed in a typical D&D milieu. In a modern or futuristic setting, a skill-based system is much better than a class-based one. Secondly, there are plenty of ways to make D&D combat more dangerous and terrifying. The critical hit system used in Combat & Tactics (written for 2e, which I still play) has plenty of ways to seriously impair the PCs and their enemies. I also did away with the saving throw, and upped the severity by one die category. So watch out! With all of this said, I think the D&D game is fairly limited in its applicability. It can cover high fantasy, sword & sorcery, new weird, sword & sandal, stone & sorcery, historical fantasy, and even flintlock fantasy pretty well. But anything else is pushing it. Re-skinning D&D to fit a vastly different sort of game is usually a poor idea. Just use another system made for that genre instead.
@suddenlysarablog
11 ай бұрын
I agree with all of your points, but I'd add an even bigger one than any you mentioned : I hate D&D Combat. In D&D, everything is combat. 99% of all class abilities, spells, equipment, is geared towards Combat. I don't want to FIGHT all the time! There's so many interesting stories to be told that don't involve violence, and SWADE gives you the leverage to not only build effective non-combat characters, but also to run a variety of encounters that aren't combat-based.
@TheSavageGoose
11 ай бұрын
I completely agree. You look at class abilities and it is all about fighting.
@BrotherPraetus
7 ай бұрын
Bennies are great. And the initiative system using a deck of cards has a nice little interaction with Bennies built in there. Besides being able to spend a Benny to draw a new Action Card. For those not yet in the know - Jokers are indeed WILD; providing the recipient, and their team, some interesting, well, benefits.
@minutemansmonitor
Жыл бұрын
I cut my teeth on D&D 3.5 and the D20 Star Wars RPG...probably the crunchiest systems ever! I'm thankful for all the happy times with those games, but rules-light systems are way more fun for me now.
@Master_Ulrich
Жыл бұрын
I've tried d&d around 8 times and it frustrates me how much I want to like it compared to how much I actually don't like it. Rolling 10 times to do one thing is never going to be fun to me I guess. All the rolling just ruins and breaks up any kind of enjoyable immersion.
@TheSavageGoose
Жыл бұрын
What was the thing you were trying to do?
@grantchoitz1420
13 күн бұрын
I think Bennies are what sold SWADE for me, not knowing much about inspiration in DND before this video. It seems like SWADE is much more flexible for the GM and Players than 5e is.
@TimeLapsePrints
Жыл бұрын
I had a player whose bolt was a small swarm of vicious bees.
@TheSavageGoose
Жыл бұрын
Love it!
@curseofyig6727
7 ай бұрын
I would have added #6 Tests. Savage Worlds lets you try stunts from the movies. Throw sand in an enemies face, taunt them, use your polished shield to direct sunlight into their eyes. Savage Worlds does this so smoothly with the test mechanic and encourages all sorts of creativity in combat.
@Keovar
11 ай бұрын
Hit points are stamina, building fatigue, luck, etc. They're not physical damage, they're an avstraction for everything yjay leads up to actual physical damage. Personally, I use exhaustion as a 'wound' system. Dropping to 0 HP gives you a cumulative -1 all d20 tests, save DC, and 5' of movement. While at 0, you make a DC 10 CON save every round, and fails give you an additional exhaustion. Exceed 10 exhaustion, and you die. 10 isn't a high DC, but remember you're getting a -1 to -10 on the CON save, so there's a death spiral effect. Three successes on the CON saves and you stabilize, and begin a short reat. Getting rid of exhaustion requires a long rest, though rangers can recover 1 exhaustion per day with a short rest. If someon hits exhaustion 10 or more, Revivify and other resurrection effects sets them to 9 exhaustion. Lesser Restoration and Greater Restoration each remove as many exhaustion as their respective spell levels, but only on living characters who don't exceed 10 exhaustion.
@PEGShane
10 ай бұрын
This game sounds awesome. ;) (Thanks for the kind words!)
@maxdevries3351
Жыл бұрын
Good reasons. there is also the fact that Savage Worlds works for most settings in a way that D&D does not
@TheSavageGoose
Жыл бұрын
That is true. I do enjoy having one system for any kind of game I want to play. I have played Sci-Fi (Last Parsec), Victorian Horror (Rippers), Modern Horror (ETU), Fantasy (Pathfinder), Modern cthulhu (homebrew). The options are vast and wonderful.
@exodous02
2 ай бұрын
I'm up for playing ANYTHING but D&D. My reason is every time I play it we have a teeny tiny bit of role play between battles, battles take way too long. Also, D&D attracts a lot of rule lawyers, if you get two in a group they argue endlessly about rules. They are usually the people you picture good at math and not socializing. These people don't play anything else because most other systems focus on the story rather the math of the game.
@TheSavageGoose
2 ай бұрын
I think it definitely depends on the group, but I understand where you are coming from.
@coreyloucks4865
Жыл бұрын
Those things don't necessarily bother me. For me it's the overreliance of dice. I feel like it takes away player agency. Not just in combat, but combat is definitely a big one. If you compare a table top game to any kind of video game, usually unless it's pay to win, the player who des win is the one who has faster reactions and has spent more time playing the game. But Dungeons and Dragons, luck of the roll plays a huge factor. Now, what's even worse are roll checks. Especially charisma, but wisdom and intelligence aren't that better. You shouldn't just be able to roll a dice and convince someone to do something. Likewise when trying to discover something in your setting. Persuasion should actually be persuasion. Meaning, you should have to talk to the NPC, learn more about them and their values and beliefs and find out what motivates them in order to be able to persuade someone. Like, finding out that a thief breaking into a stronghold to rob the gold of the barron only to feed his family would make it easier to convince him not to go through with it if you can help him find an alternative means of feeding his family. Likewise, if you're looking for a hidden door, instead of just rolling for a perception check, exploring the room looking for any kind of lever or pulling out books to discover one opens the hidden door would give players a much deeper experience.
@blakenelson4158
3 ай бұрын
um no not all players are good at persuasion but like the idea of playing the face of the group. this game is about playing a person that's not you.
@sharpmountaingames9303
Ай бұрын
I'm with you on the Magic system. I have high level characters, and it is VERY difficult to make things challenging for them. Thanks for a good video.
@TheSavageGoose
Ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing
@trace_minerals
11 ай бұрын
I'm also a SW convert. They got me when they adapted RIFTS.
@TheSavageGoose
11 ай бұрын
I backed the first Rifts for Savage Worlds Kickstarter, but have yet to run it.
@trace_minerals
11 ай бұрын
@@TheSavageGoose It's so fun. I played a Psi-Stalker Cyber-knight for an 8-month campaign.
@brandonkelbe
Жыл бұрын
I run OSE but it’s heavily modified. Some new players are really lost by this, but through agreed decision making with regular players we have simplified the game. I think the DM has ultimate authority and every game should have house rules. But it really throws off new players who prepped.
@TheSavageGoose
Жыл бұрын
I think that is one reason I like Savage Worlds, because modifying it usually just means adding certain Setting Rules, or using sub-systems in creative ways.
@brandonkelbe
Жыл бұрын
@@TheSavageGoose I like the wound system. Although I try to target my players by giving them disadvantages and dilemma as well as violence. I would prefer a simpler system like the cypher system. But D&D is where all the poaching is to be done. No one wants to play a brand new unheard of system when they a actually show up with a D&D starter kit.
@grr-OUCH
2 ай бұрын
I have been using wound levels with hit points. At 75% you are Wounded and get a -1 to all d20 rolls. At 50% you are Bloodied and have -2 to all d20 rolls. At 25% you are Very Wounded and have -3 to all d20 rolls. Of course, at 0 you are incapacitated. Classes have a serious problem in that each level is not worth the same across the classes and subclases. Savage Worlds mostly does this with Edges, but some of the more recent stuff, like Rifts and Pathfidner for Savage Worlds, there are Edges that are worth WAY MORE than they should be. They break the math of Savage Worlds.
@TheSavageGoose
2 ай бұрын
Oh! Wait, so you introduced Wounds to D&D?
@grr-OUCH
2 ай бұрын
@@TheSavageGoose Yes. And I use the cards for Savage Worlds to remind the player they have them. And I use the tokens for mooks on the board. I have imported a few things from Savage Worlds into D&D. Including benies and the action cards. A Joker gets advantage on all checks that round.
@grr-OUCH
2 ай бұрын
I ran Savage Worlds for about 12 years for my group. So they know it. But a guy in my group wanted to run D&D for the past year, and I started to run Dungeons of Drakkenheim last month. So I added Savage Worlds to D&D. It fixes what I don't like about D&D. For the classes that get lame stuff for levels, I add other stuff to help them out.
@Cumrel
4 ай бұрын
One thing I love most about Powers' Trappings, its great narrative element. The same Power can be wield differently just because of its Trapping. Fireball may be problematic inside a forest, but your good elfish friend is a bard. His Blast is pure sound, unplesant but wont cause entriovemental hazard... right?
@WyattHolliday
8 ай бұрын
I’m an old school D&D guy (because I’m old), and I also enjoyed 5e. Experienced and entertained by a variety of games and systems, I played around with Savage Worlds several years ago and wasn’t too smitten. However, I picked up SWAdE on a whim a few months ago and now it’s a whole different story. I recently started running a Rifts campaign and I have to say, Savage Worlds might be my favorite system now for the majority of settings/genres. I love it. Great videos, btw!
@scarbrow01
8 ай бұрын
Years ago a friend ran a game of Savage Worlds and I was not impressed. That changed when I looked into SWADE. Now it is my favorite system.
@Journey-of-1000-Miles
Жыл бұрын
Every week, I participate in a game of each. I love them both.
@gregbruni2212
8 ай бұрын
I have played every edition of D&D/D20 including first edition Gamma World and Cypher system. Although my reasons for abandoning D&D/D20 are different from yours, (with the exception of hitpoints) I totally agree with you. I will never go back. Playing D&D/D20 feels like going backwards..... and not in a good way. Did I mention how much I loathe tracking hitpoints, especially as a GM?
@JudyIscariot
11 ай бұрын
I've been playing and GMing (mostly GMing these days) D&D since 3.5 days and honestly the main thing I appreciate about Savage Worlds is combat speed. Combat in a lot of systems takes a long time, but my two favorites (Call of Cthulhu and Savage Worlds) typically keep the combat more punchy and quick which I appreciate. Games where it can take 20-30 minutes between a given player's turn drive me nuts. I've got literally every Pathfinder adventure path but hadn't had much motivation to run any of them until Savage Pathfinder released. I also appreciate that Savage Worlds is built on taking hinderances at the start. I really loved Merits and Flaws, and that system getting lost along the way was unfortunate.
@hikikomicklori9290
10 ай бұрын
On Hold is such an awesome mechanic. At first I was treating it like Hold Action but once I learned how good it is, especially if used to get first action next round, my baddies aren't just punching bags for the players anymore. Using Defend, Aim and Cover can turn Edgeless Extras into a challenging encounter.
@TheSavageGoose
10 ай бұрын
Aim and cover are great if working with Range combat. Hold also works great when utilizing cover
@mrmaster9801
Жыл бұрын
I've switched to GMing SW mostly because of your reason number 1, hit points. On 5e (but I also felt this problem back in my 3.x days), the incredible amount of hp a creature can have may give rise to annoying situations, such as a player coming up with a good plan to surprise some elite draconic guards/mages and another player answering "That's all good, but they'll still have a good chunk of hit points, so why bother with a complicate plan when we can just attack them frontally?". The steep rise of hp from 2e onward has, in my opinion, contributed to this and I was looking for a system that, while still retaining a certain advantage for PC and bosses, kept the whole thing in check. Though I suspect that a similar result could be reached by lowering the hp amounts in D&D 5e, following the suggestions provided by Professor DM on his channel, for example. Reason number 3 (check your summary at top of the video, reason 3 is named as "Classes" but I should be "Inspiration") is also a good one. I have made some experiments with 5e because I felt that 1 inspiration only was too low and I ended up fixing its limit to 3. But SW Bennie are definitely better, though I must say that their mechanics (most of them at least) could be applied to D&D as well. As for classes and magic system, I haven't got any problem with their D&D versions, to the point that I use SWPF for classes (but of course classes are "a bit" different there if compared to D&D ones) and Zandmar's slot magic system for magic (yes, I love the incredibile amount of spells, the strategic planning that comes with them and I couldn't imagine Elminster or Raistlin using Powers, though I wouldn't have any problem with them in non D&D settings). On the Hold action, I've no particular complain or appreciation. In the end, I too like very much SW, to the point where I am currently running a mini campaign in the Realms for my D&D group, to make them acquainted with its rules, before shifting to a longer one. So far, they seem to like it, expecially the whole deadly thing of combats that force them to use more their brains and less their dice.
@Hawke301
11 ай бұрын
What about using house rules to incorporate things you like from two or more systems to create a unique game experience for your group? Or, modify the parts of D&D that you don't quite like, and make them into something that you do like...and use that as your house rule on a given part of the game. There's nothing preventing you from blending game systems to make something new, unless you just want to play an established game that someone has already done that with...your call.
@TheSavageGoose
11 ай бұрын
Absolutely. If I run a game of 5e again, I am definitely using Savage Worlds Hold system. The only thing I am not sure about is how to handle Initiative. Rolling each time seems like it may take up too much time.
@Hawke301
11 ай бұрын
@@TheSavageGoose why not use the Savage Worlds method for initiative also? I've played games where initiative is rolled every round, and I've seen videos of 5e games where they roll once for the entire combat encounter, which is much faster, but does break the pace of what's happening. Remember, it's your table, so your rules apply. If you don't like their initiative system, use something from another system or make up your own.
@munninn3823
11 ай бұрын
Have you thought about house rules to change things ? Groups have used a wound system for D&D or something similar to bennies instead of inspiration. I think the real problem comes from players trying video games first where have much damage you take doesn't affect what you can do and dying is almost a joke
@TheSavageGoose
10 ай бұрын
While I haven't tried them yet, there are some Savage Worlds mechanics I'm going to start using in my D&D games.
@wastingmylifeaway4898
3 ай бұрын
Don't have this system, can enemies NOT use the Hold action or something? Seems like a perfect way to just not do anything at all in a turn because both the enemy and the PCs are waiting for the other to do something. I'll probably get it next month (I've been meaning to), but if that's how the Hold action works, I'd probably have to change it so that the one declaring a Hold action needs to declare what they're holding for and if that doesn't happen, they just dither for that turn.
@TheSavageGoose
3 ай бұрын
No. Enemies can go on hold too. That being said I rarely see that situation come up. If all sides go on hold and everyone is waiting, it usually devolves into a roleplay situation.
@tbruce8187
Жыл бұрын
I love Savage Worlds, the Deadlands settings are all excellent, but for a fantasy RPG I prefer Pathfinder 2e.
@agnulittumc
Жыл бұрын
Agree, there were awesome games fixing all those problems already in the early 90's like, for instance, vampire the masquerade. And still most people choose dnd, despite all its flaws, because its simple and easy. Roll d20, hit CA, roll damage. After all role games are more about role playing then rolling dice.. This being said, vtm is my absolute favorite game (despite its clunkiness) and still play it to this day, alternating it with dnd campaings..
@TheSavageGoose
Жыл бұрын
I have a coworker who really likes VtM. The worlds/lore sounds super interesting, but I don't think we have talked game mechanics. I wiull have to ask him about that next time I see him.
@agnulittumc
Жыл бұрын
@@TheSavageGooseFrom what I read (briefly) there are some similiarities between Salvage World and VtM. Like the fact that checks are done by combining attibutes and skills. Also the wound system is similar (vampires become incapacitated after receiving 7 damage levels, with progressive penalties to the checks..). I find this type of game mechanics very fun and certainly more realistic than dnd's. On the flipside, the more realistic you get, the more complicated and clunky the game becomes. I will check savage world anyway, it sounds fun..
@TheSavageGoose
Жыл бұрын
You don't combine Attributes and Skills in Savage Worlds. They both exist, but Attributes rarely get rolled except to resist something. Attributes affect your Skills, but it's more about how high it can go without costing you anything. I will eventually work on a basic how-to-play video, but that may be a while. It will take too long to edit if it is anything like today's character creation video.
@midnightprince30
Ай бұрын
3.5 was ok,then wizards cast the eternal greed spell. Switched years ago now to COC, Conan, Rifts and NE. The latter 2 with SWADE.
@TheSavageGoose
Ай бұрын
I assume NE is Necessary Evil?
@midnightprince30
Ай бұрын
@@TheSavageGoose yes indeed.
@purefunmedia
Жыл бұрын
I appreciate these points. I have included some similar things in my in my own RPG for a many years. I do want to comment on the On Hold action, though. While it may be more cinematic, once players grasp the tactical power of the action, it gives higher initiative players a little too much power. Placing some restrictions helps to keep this from becoming everyone's go-to. People over using it also can be a real pain to track. I have a way to hold actions in my game as well that is a good bit more flexible than D&D's method, but with some restrictions still. I originally was wide open, like Savage Worlds, but it just proved to be OP. Most players were holding for tactical advantage and I couldn't realistically have all the bad guys holding all the time in response and keep the game progressing at all.
@TheSavageGoose
Жыл бұрын
I have yet to see this, but I can understand the possibility.
@jamesbates9038
Жыл бұрын
hell i am currently playing 2 5e campaigns 1 weird war 2 campaign in sw, and a pathfinder 3.5e game. i enjoy them all.
@TheSavageGoose
Жыл бұрын
Good! That's great to hear!
@grimshwiz
4 ай бұрын
Reason for me: WotC and Ha$bro. Left after 3.5, tried 4e and 5e. Just not for me. Picked up Savage Worlds recently. But before that I was a big player of DCC RPG, CoC, Traveller, The One Ring, Forbidden Lands and B/X.
@TheSavageGoose
4 ай бұрын
What brought you to Savage Worlds?
@grimshwiz
4 ай бұрын
@@TheSavageGoose always was interested in it and followed the game for years, but never picked it up until recently I decided I want to grab a copy. Not too sure when I will run it, but planning on using the Vermilium setting, looks cool.
@TheSavageGoose
4 ай бұрын
I haven't purchased it yet, but it's #1 on my wishlist. waiting for the Kickstarter for the new adventure for it.
@alderaancrumbs6260
11 ай бұрын
I see “Dusk City Outlaws” on the shelf and greatly approve. 👍🏻 I agree with everything you said. SW is my go-to now. I still play other things, but nothing beats SW for flexibility, especially with magic!
@TheSavageGoose
11 ай бұрын
It's a great one shot heist game. I don't think I'd run a campaign in it.
@alderaancrumbs6260
11 ай бұрын
@@TheSavageGoose agreed. It can do a great procedural world build, but it’s not necessary. I highly recommend “Spectaculars” for a great supers game that’s very cool with an emergent world. So, favorite SW setting? I’d have to say Weird West, if forced to choose.
@markgraham5971
11 ай бұрын
3rd edition with some house rules. No Haste spell, re-do Wish / miracle and timestop. AND Crit is 20's only. 3 total "classes" Martial, Mage, or Expert. All feats available to every class so no multiclassing. DM and player communication focused that go along with the story/world.
@ceranko
11 ай бұрын
Gurps is also really good and was the first system to make your character how you want to make them.
@CaptainKMan
10 ай бұрын
I agree with everything but my switch to Savage Worlds is mostly driven by WOTC politics and terrible decisions made since January of this year. I am glad they screwed up because it broke their hold on me for what a Roleplaying game should be and allowed me to branch out and look for alternatives. I found SWADE and haven't looked back. It was a pain to rewrite all of my campaign guide material for my setting to the SWADE engine but once I got it done I was golden.
@TheSavageGoose
10 ай бұрын
Welcome to Savage Worlds and the Savage Community!
@0num4
11 ай бұрын
I agree with your reasoning, although I chose to play Cypher System instead. Both CS and SWADE are great in their own ways, and if I had a lot more free time I'd probably play both.
@TheSavageGoose
11 ай бұрын
What do you like about Cypher? I have not played a game in Cypher
@0num4
11 ай бұрын
@@TheSavageGoose setting-agnostic Cypher System's base gameplay loop is incredibly simple and elegant: GM assigns every task/enemy/NPC a level between 0 and 10. 0 is reliably doable to the point where it doesn't need a roll--e.g. flipping a light switch--where level 1-10 gives you a target number to meet-or-beat with a d20 roll. Your target number is the level of the task times 3. Obviously, you can't roll a 21 through 30 on a d20, so task level 7 through 10 are impossible without modifications. The real beauty here is that you don't adjust the die roll, you only modify the task level upward or downward ("easing" or "hindering" in Cypher System game terms) which changes the target number. If you have a tool that aids you in a Climbing task, maybe you ease the task by 1 or 2 levels. If the lock you're trying to pick is particularly rusty, maybe it hinders the task by 1 or 2 steps. This allows you to adjust the difficulty base on circumstance very easily--akin to changing the DC on a D&D/Pathfinder roll, but without needing a bevy of modifiers to add or subtract. I should also add that the GM does not, by default, roll dice in Cypher. The player rolls attack against an enemy, and they roll defense against the same enemy's attacks. This is one facet which helps lighten the cognitive load on the GM, so they may focus on the narrative and NPCs. Additionally, character creation is wonderful. You build a PC with a sentence, e.g. "Onuma is a Resilient Warrior who Bears A Halo Of Fire". Resilient is the "descriptor," Warrior is the "type," and Bears A Halo Of Fire is the "focus." Each section consists of skills and abilities which you can use to customize your character's capabilities. Type is adjacent to class, but it is nowhere near as limiting as within D&D, Pathfinder, etc. You can also make entirely custom combinations of things, working between players & GMs to determine acceptability for the setting and table. Since I'm risking turning this comment into a love letter to Cypher System and Monte Cook Games, I'll just state that you should check out the Cypher System rules primer (free on the MCG website) and/or tutorial vids from MCG, or channels such as Qedhup or RPG Elite.
@FamilyTableTop
2 ай бұрын
I agree.
@Dereliction2
Жыл бұрын
You have good and valid points (even if I don't agree with all of it), and Savage Worlds does solve many issues you raise. That said, D&D can offer a couple playstyles that Savage Worlds struggles to replicate, regarding crunch and scenarios where players contemplate deeply about their character's gear, powers, build and so on.
@TheSavageGoose
Жыл бұрын
I'm not sure I entirely agree, but I understand the general sentiment.
@gregmiller1366
11 ай бұрын
We're trying SW now. Deadlands Noir. Great video, thank you.
@TheSavageGoose
11 ай бұрын
Awesome! I heard a rumor they are making an updated version of Deadlands Noir for SWAdE
@dawaterrat4460
11 ай бұрын
Stumbled across this... and yep... except that I came to that conclusion back when 3rd Ed hit, and I don't think Savage Worlds was yet a thing. Deadlands was, though, and that's what Savage Worlds came out of. But that was also when I realized I like more narrative systems (but not very heavy narrative systems like FATE or PbtA), like Storyteller and now Storypath. I have run Savage worlds, though, and I do enjoy it enough that it's my default Generic system when I don't think I have a system that supports the particular narrative I want to explore.
@ppppppqqqppp
11 ай бұрын
So I'm genuinely asking this in good faith, but what is it about specifically d&d players and calling "I'm playing another game" "switching". It feels like the community assumes you only play 1 game, and it's a big deal to play a different game.
@TheSavageGoose
11 ай бұрын
While a lot of players have multiple systems they play, most people have the one system that they assume unless specifically playing a different game. Whether 5e, GURPS, Savage Worlds, etc. I have other systems I run and play, but my default is Savage Worlds when it used to be 5e. Part of it is just the monetary investment. People have put money into a system and don't want to switch or play something else. It's about getting a return. This is why, IMO, a lot of people are nervous about One D&D. They've already invested a lot into 5e, and don't want to lose that investment. So when someone does make a switch, and abandons their investment, the idea is that they are making a big change that was worth it. This is not true for everyone. I know plenty of people who have lots and lots of systems. But there are also some people who just stick to one. You could call them the more casual players, and I mean nothing negative about that. Overall, compared to a lot of people, I'm a casual TTRPG player, but maybe not as casual as others. I have two main systems on my shelves. 5e and Savage Worlds, and I haven't touched 5e in awhile. I also have Dread and Dusk City Outlaws on my shelf, and various systems in PDF form.
@99zxk
Жыл бұрын
I've been enjoying the WEG Star Wars and Cyberpunk for many of these reasons.
@michaellegg1631
Жыл бұрын
Savage Worlds replaced 4th edition DnD for me. Its a good game
@TheSavageGoose
Жыл бұрын
Oh boy. 4th edition is technically the first D&D I played before quickly switching to 3.5. The skill/ability/feature management of the game was too much for me in 4e and it felt way too focused on combat. I started with the 4e red box and that's all I ever bought.
@Rodrigo_Vega
Жыл бұрын
Wow, now that you put it that way, the "hold" action is dumb as bricks. I'm currently playing Pathifinder (1st e.) and we had a whole thing around the "brace" action for pole weapons. It's entirely useless. RAW according to my GM, I have to use a redied action to brace my weapon _against a charge speciffically_ , so there goes my turn. Now if any characters does anything BUT charge, it's wasted. NPCs never charge. They see me bracing and just "walk" towards me and hit me. So I wasted my turn bracing and I wasted a readied action that I could have redied for something like "If an enemy moves into my melee area" (still wouldn't get the benefits of brace)
@cellphone7223
Жыл бұрын
That's because Brace should be a reaction.
@Rodrigo_Vega
Жыл бұрын
@@cellphone7223 It's either that or just double damage against "mounted enemies or enemies one size larger tha you" on _any_ readied attack if the idea is to emulate the advantage against cavalry or using their weight against them or whatever...
@cellphone7223
Жыл бұрын
@@Rodrigo_Vega Yeah I get that but if your Initiative is after the Charger it makes Brace redundant. As a reaction you can Brace when the target charges you, as long as you have the reaction to burn to do so. Make your rolls to hit, double damage, possible unseat? etc etc....
@Rodrigo_Vega
Жыл бұрын
@@cellphone7223 Yea that seems simple and fun enough.
@TheSavageGoose
10 ай бұрын
Great conversation guys. No matter the system, helpful tips are great.
@charlesshirk8699
11 ай бұрын
Bennies are your hit points.
@TheSavageGoose
11 ай бұрын
That is definitely one way to look at it. They are the attrition system of Savage Worlds, although at the same time, you want players to have them all of them time.
@Vigilluminatus
2 ай бұрын
I despised 5e right from the start for mainly balance reasons and was happy for a while with PF2, but ... the HP and magic system are beginning to bother me there too. The main problem I have with Savage Worlds is that it doesn't have an official mechanic for solo bosses - wild cards alone just aren't tough enough to withstand a party with way more actions than it for more than one round. I've found a few fan-made mechanics, but I would have preferred if the makers had thought of them. Once in a while you want one strong enemy taking on the entire party for at least three rounds in a true boss fight.
@TheSavageGoose
Ай бұрын
This has been something I have been thinking a lot about the past month (partly because you commented about it.) What I am realizing is that I think many people are thinking too statically and simply look at the character and abilities. Bosses are often designed as if they are characters, instead of being more abstract about their abilities. I have been mulling this over as a video idea as well, so stay tuned!
@Vigilluminatus
Ай бұрын
@@TheSavageGoose Cool! I'm interested to see what you come up with.
@NothingThere739
11 ай бұрын
IDK if your into video games but to anyone who shares these criticisms and enjoys strategic combat/survival elements in their RPG's , I highly recommend Stoneshard.
@BobMcDowell
Жыл бұрын
I mostly agree. SW's exploding dice are a downside you didn't touch on, and WotC's business behavior is probably the most compelling reason to leave 5e behind. Other than that, sure.
@TheSavageGoose
11 ай бұрын
I disagree that exploding dice are a downside. They are one of my favorite things about Savage Worlds.
@serosen-yx1ci
12 күн бұрын
This video is very helpful. Thank you!
@TheSavageGoose
10 күн бұрын
You're very welcome!
@justinargenio2555
11 ай бұрын
I love Savage Worlds. Glad to see content for it. I still haven't played the newer version. I'm gonna go check out the channel.
@김홍익-o2p
6 ай бұрын
I really agree with you thank you for videos
@TheSavageGoose
6 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching!
@oldensad5541
Жыл бұрын
EXPLODING DICE EXPLODE!! 1!
@markhammil3148
11 ай бұрын
7:00. You mean the READY action . It's NOT called the Hold action in D&D. It's the Hold action in Savage Worlds, but it's the READY action in D&D.
@Drudenfusz
Жыл бұрын
I agree with you the Hit Point systems are bad, but honestly, I dislike Wound Penalty systems also. I have no issues with classes per se, even though I prefer them more as guidelines to get easily to an iconic archetype and not so strict as D&D has them. D&D and Savage Worlds both go for a hard magic system, which of course is what most TTRPG systems do, but I prefer soft magic. The holding of an action is also of no real concern to me, since I am ot really into combat focused play either. Thus overall, neither game is for me.
@TheSavageGoose
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing!
@ONervall
11 ай бұрын
Just curious, which systems do you play? How do they emulate the 'soft magic' thing?
@jn3Storyteller
Жыл бұрын
Ummm... You cannot "Grow old of" something. But I like you video.
@TheSavageGoose
Жыл бұрын
You are absolutely right. The phrase I was looking for was grown tired of. Oh well. Thanks for watching!
@jn3Storyteller
Жыл бұрын
Hey, I momentarily forgot my moderator's name last night. :)@@TheSavageGoose
@harrox
Жыл бұрын
Excellent information!! Thanks for the video.
@MyCampaignRules
Жыл бұрын
Agreed
@Journey-of-1000-Miles
5 ай бұрын
I love D &D, I also love SW. What I do not like, is antagonistic KZitem channels who make money on wizards of the Coast’s coat tails.
@TheSavageGoose
4 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching!
@solmyr42
Жыл бұрын
Totally agree with most of this. There are pros to dnd however, especially if hacked. I hacked mine to get rid of classes, and gittibg rid of hitpoints atm. May end up just using s.v. some of the time xD
@rickprocure6321
11 ай бұрын
So hitpoints with damage resistance???
@mauriciogerhardt3209
11 ай бұрын
Wait till you find out about GURPS. You're gonna shit your pants.
@TheSavageGoose
11 ай бұрын
I will admit that GURPS is something that I should look into as well, but every time someome describes it to me it feels daunting and too crunchy.
@Arnsteel634
11 ай бұрын
I just can’t get out of the dnd mindset. I love classes and leveling. 2E forever
@TheSavageGoose
11 ай бұрын
I think everyone loves leveling, and I definitely had a hard time understanding not having classes when I first started with Savage Worlds back in the early 2010s. This is why I think the new Savage Pathfinder books are helpful.
@0bscure42
6 ай бұрын
I hate D&D too (I don't even think "hate" is too strong a word for it), but I really don't grok how these changes fix any of the fundamental problems that D&D has. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Most of these points are basically side-grades or half-measures. The real questions are: • Is Savage Worlds making combat mesh with the rest of the game so that fights and non-fights aren't these two completely separated modes of play? • Does Savage Worlds procedurally generate stories and conflicts, or do I have to prep them myself? • How often do Savage Worlds' mechanics result in a player repeating the same action/roll (or the same general sequence of actions/rolls) more than twice in a row? The fact that nobody seems to bring these topics up when comparing the games is creating the strong impression that SW is basically a loose clone of D&D.
@TheSavageGoose
6 ай бұрын
For comparison in understanding what you mean, what games think so this well?
@0bscure42
6 ай бұрын
@@TheSavageGoose I'd say that 'Apocalypse World', 'Blades in the Dark', 'Alice Is Missing', and 'Lasers & Feelings' are good examples. I also have the impression that 'Fiasco' and 'Dream Askew' are good examples, but I have not played them yet.
@TheSavageGoose
6 ай бұрын
@@0bscure42 okay. I'll look into it just to make sure I understand what you mean
@vixevinweria8400
11 ай бұрын
How do you acknowledge multiclassing and still claim that when you pick a class "you are stuck with it for the rest of the game and you can't change your mind or try something different."?
@khublaklonk4480
Жыл бұрын
I really like the wounds in Savage Worlds too, of course I'm a silly old bugger with a penchant for melodrama, so I would. Plus, much like yourself, I've always found scratching off hit points to be a bit of a chore. Glad to discover a new channel to subscribe to.
@FlameForgedSoul
Жыл бұрын
On Hold cinched it, never liked the DnD mechanic.
@JurneeJakes
7 ай бұрын
Can’t disagree on any point. DnD being the only game in town here has been immensely frustrating.
@TheSavageGoose
2 ай бұрын
I disagree that it is the only game in town anymore. The indie scene is bigger than ever, but it definitely has the most support.
@JurneeJakes
2 ай бұрын
@@TheSavageGoose In larger centers, perhaps. I myself have a bookshelf of all kinds of RPGs, but could only find people to play DnD.
@TheSavageGoose
2 ай бұрын
That's fair. People by and large only know D&D, mostly because D&D is the Kleenex of TTRPGs. That being said, I think we just need to run more games for people. Haha
@Scubasgamecorner
Жыл бұрын
Yes more Savage worlds content please
@TheSavageGoose
Жыл бұрын
Sorry it's been slow going. Almost done editing my next one
@Scubasgamecorner
Жыл бұрын
No worries I will wait patiently :)@@TheSavageGoose
@jaysherman5933
Жыл бұрын
I don't know if we were doing something wrong, but when I tried SW with my group I found the Wound and Toughness system very frustrating. Almost no successful attacks (from PCs or NPCs alike), and when there was one it was absorbed or ended in just shaken. It was like there was no progress at all. It made me miss hit points.
@TheSavageGoose
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing! In my experience, combat is shorter in Savage Worlds, so it's possible something wasn't clicking, but I couldn't say without seeing it and knowing how things were going.
@Chiungalla79
3 ай бұрын
You most certainly missed something. Did your players invest a reasonable amount into their combat skills? Did you play with exploding dice? Usually it takes not that many hits until a damage die explodes (aces) and it causes one or more wounds with one attack.
@WildDieWoodard
Жыл бұрын
Terrific video! Nicely done!
@TheSavageGoose
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@NotSure-i5n
5 ай бұрын
Not into it. Appreciate you explaining it tho!
@TheSavageGoose
4 ай бұрын
Hey, not for everyone. The beauty of the hobby is that there are SO many games out there to find something you and your table can enjoy together.
@Apeiron242
2 ай бұрын
"Reasons why" is redundant. Health levels > hit points. HP is bad game design. Classes are stupid. You might like DC20 (an improvement of D&D). #BoycottWotC
@davidtravis1384
11 ай бұрын
I won't play anything but Savage Worlds. Those d20 systems seem too clunky after you have played Savage Worlds for awhile.
@ericley6479
4 ай бұрын
You got savage in your name, bias take :)
@TheSavageGoose
4 ай бұрын
That's one way to see it. :P
@ericley6479
4 ай бұрын
@TheSavageGoose ima check out Savage worlds anyway...despite the shillery ;) jk thanks for the video.
@NeurosenkavalierEmilSinclair
3 ай бұрын
I highly recommend to adapt the savage worlds system to have a combination of hitpoints and wounds. You still get a wound if you are over the limit, so it simulates being wounded - but very frequent weak blows can put you out of the fight also. I really hated it when you hit enemies very often but it wouldn't affect them at all. The mit of HP and wounds plays awesome and just as simple 👌
@Chiungalla79
3 ай бұрын
I strongly advice against this. It will most certainly will NOT work good in the existing system. And is completely unnecessary. And additional bookkeeping. And if you had frequent hits that did nothing you were doing it wrong. Period.
@TheSavageGoose
2 ай бұрын
If your hits are not doing anything, then perhaps a new strategy is needed. The beauty of Savage Worlds is there are more options than just swing the sword and moving on.
@dejaeviz
Жыл бұрын
damage to players via hit point damage is SIMPLE. the DM just assigns a damn wound ..... easy. LOL !!
@josephpurdy8390
10 ай бұрын
Page 61 of the 1st edition Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 'Dungeon Master's Guide.' It describes the function of "hit points" much differently than you do. Page 63 details awaiting action. Again, this is not the same as you describe it. Page 41-47 details magic spells in the Player's Handbook as being a guide for new spells. The exact nature of how the certain spell functions is left up to the DM. The player do not have all the information on all the spells. Spells do need to be practiced to be understood, and thus a measured result is to be expected. Your not explaining D&D. Your explaining an imitation of D&D.
@mitchellmiller5064
11 ай бұрын
I would disagree about customization in D&D. I see your points and I mostly agree, but I would say that it's false to say there isn't customization in 5e. I mean, you could make two characters of the same class and have them both be completely unique and different from one another.
@thegremlin3194
11 ай бұрын
I dont like the corporate takeover of D&D . We tried Savage Worlds 3 times it did not work .Space ships and sci fi failed , Fantasy become a mess .The only one that worked was Deadlands but not all the players were into cowboys . Sorry
@TheSavageGoose
11 ай бұрын
What problems did you have? Can you tell me more about your experiences?
@thegremlin3194
11 ай бұрын
@@TheSavageGoose Shooting at a landed spacecraft door became awkward It was how to destroy it not hit it .Then there was all those tokens all over the place the enemies always died or were constantly regenerating depending on status . Player characters went from healthy to dead without much warning . Personally I dont like the language used Mooks etc. These maybe American terms but not used in English or Deutsche . The games always deteriorated into arguments .I ran Slipstream for 2 months a friend Deadlands and the fantasy one was just a game of comparisons . We tried and maybe got it wrong but its now a dont go to game
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