the one single biggest difference i felt with upgrading my brakes on the track bike is switching from dot4 fluid to RBF660 fluid. Before that i was running a Brembo RCS19 master, braided lines and EBC sintered pads and Motomaster Flame rotors and i would get massive brake fade after about 6 or 7 laps, to the point where i could not brake as late as i wanted, laptimes got slower, and i got angry. You'll see a dry boiling temp on dot4 at about 230C degrees, whereas the RBF660 starts boiling at 325C degrees, that's 40% more!! I'd recommend the Motul RBF 660 because it's not super expensive, i'm talking like 20 euros for 0.5L. you could step up to AP Racing Radi-CAL R4, but then you're paying more than double of the RBF 660 and that is only 15C degrees higher boiling point...
@randydalmas
4 жыл бұрын
Basic maintenance, like bleeding the brakes and keeping the brake calipers and pads clean, is a performance upgrade for some riders. I remember the story of a rider that rode his bike after taking it to a shop, and came back saying that the handling had really improved. He wanted to know what they did. The answer: they put air in the tires.
@maxwell5668
2 жыл бұрын
Bruh 😂
@TWIRKNOLOVE
5 жыл бұрын
I'm going to respectfully disagree with tip #4 based on physics; you cannot increase the pressure produced with a bigger master, but you are correct when saying it requires more force to create the same pressure as a smaller one. This is based of Pascal's Law. Pressure on the caliper will not change. Changing the master will do nothing but create a different 'feel' in braking - be it requiring more or less force to create the SAME pressure needed to engage the caliper. It's easy to confuse Force and Pressure. Helpful equation; Pressure = Force/Area. Area would be the cross-sectional area of the master where the force is being applied; basically the area of a circle where the lever pivots into the master's line.
@christophersato3623
5 жыл бұрын
i was gona write the same
@singhangad
4 жыл бұрын
Please help me understand this. Pressure is force/area so increasing force will increase pressure..Keeping this in mind if you are able to apply a greater force on the caliper piston it will increase the pressure it applies on the pad and there force increase the pressure on the disc. The question is will a larger bore master cylinder increase the amount of force on the piston? Simply put. No. Theoretically A bigger bore will allow more fluid to get into the brake lines faster so u ll achieve max braking quicker a bit with more effort. The max braking remains unchanged just that it allows you to brake later since you can now decelerate harder. Hence giving the feel of more braking. Am I right with this understanding? I do know that changing to lighter titanium pistons or even upgrading the callipers is a sure way of increasing braking characteristics of a vehicle. Many thanks.
@rogaldorn605
3 жыл бұрын
@@singhangad ok i don't know too much about this but the brake system should be an oleodinamic circuit (i think that's the correct translation) it is not like on a bicycle the harder you press the more you brake
@SirMountainpass
Жыл бұрын
Just had fresh front discs and track / road sinter metal pads fitted - works like a treat in combination with braided lines, quality DOT 5.1 and last but not least, a light bike (182,7 kgs wet). Now feeling confident and ready (again) for the upcoming track days 😎🏁
@SuperBoomer95
5 жыл бұрын
I agree with all points. Especially the last about servicing regularly. I can't count how many I've seen in the shop with shitty crunchy brakes because they hadn't been serviced since new. Even just taking the lever off and lubing the pivot is a huge update to alot of older bikes.
@martins7194
5 жыл бұрын
The very first thing I change on my motorcycles, even if it's brand new: braided lines. Standard rubber hoses just give me the feeling I'm squeezing a soggy sponge. Also, it's one of the cheapest mods with (at least for me) massive results in performance. The other day I saw a 2015 Fireblade for sale, had all the usual (some nothing to do with performance) mods: full Akra exhaust, power commander, mapping, "running headlights", Front sprocket change, quick shifter, fancy rear set, fancy brake levers, undertail/tailtidy. So more than enough money spent on mods. But not the < $200 for a set of braided lines. lol
@Lespommesdeclifford
10 ай бұрын
My Track SV650 has GSXR calipers , accosato radial master cylinder , race pads , braided lines and regular fluid changes. Stops like a good thing.
@ross5506
5 жыл бұрын
On my ZX14 turbocharged I needed brakes big time, EBC pads , Braketec 330,SS lines, along with Brembo master cylinder. Made night and day difference. I was going to get ISR 6 pistons calipers, but what I've done is overkill. Let's just say a bike at 560 lbs I can lift the back wheel up. Great video! 🇨🇦
@andrewgrindrod1292
4 жыл бұрын
I too have have a zzr14 turbo, which specific pads did you use. Steuggling a bit with mine....
@julianhunter9455
5 жыл бұрын
All true and valid points. I might of added upgrading calipers as an option too but more so for some older bikes. My first track bike for example was a 96 zx7r and the 6 pot tokicos it had standard were rubbish even after rebuilding them with fresh seals and pistons. I sourced some 4 piston tokicos from a 1200 bandit, rebuilt them too and they bolted straight on. That alone made the biggest difference after putting on braided lines, sintered pads and upgrading the master cylinder. Keep up the good work dan!
@motoholota
5 жыл бұрын
Sometimes there are other ways as well - it depends on the bike. ;) My mate in a GSX-R swapped the front brake calipers for the ones from R1. On my 2015 Duke 390 I had an option to upgrade brake disc - from 300 to 320 millimeters. And both these mods gave amazing results. Of course, we also changed the brake fluid and pads. ;) Thanks for your great work btw!
@neilcook8774
5 жыл бұрын
Regular cleaning and fluid change is a must for long term performance, i went from sbs sintered to sbs race sintered and saw a massive increase in stopping power. I'm about to change seals and refresh master cylinder cylinder.
@AnthonyJohnston1
Жыл бұрын
swapping out to a brembo calliper made a big difference. then swapping to a brembo RCS master cylinder made it feel real nice. But getting some Brembo Z04 pads probably was that last bit of bitey brakes i was really looking for. Z04 all the way
@cahek1984
5 жыл бұрын
I faded my brakes when I used stock everything. Upgraded to Spiegler steel braided lines and EBC HH, and I was surprised just how much more braking that provided. It also improved the lever feedback. Still have stock MC and rotors.
@gsxrrider827
5 жыл бұрын
My brake upgrade was born out of necessity. I got a MASSIVE shudder out of the front brakes when used again immediately after hard braking, and coming from high speed. It was weird. After multiple trips to the shop, and using dial gauges to make sure everything was out of round, I was found to have a faulty master cylinder. Bike is an 06 ZX-6R. Went with the ZX-14 master cylinder, replaced the fluid, haven't had the problem since. I also have braided lines up front.
@davidlivesey4809
5 жыл бұрын
05 gsxr 600 track bike. by far the biggest upgrade* was stainless lines and EBC track pads!!!!!!!! it was night and day difference with feel, pressure, consistency, and with all those comes even more confidence in stopping the beast.
@garybowers2629
4 жыл бұрын
I put a brembo 18 20 on my 04 gsxr1000 and twin braided lines to replace the 1 into 2 system and it really was like night and day by far the best upgrade you I could of possibly done
@Shinji433
5 жыл бұрын
Good video, I always replace the stock rubber lines with braided steel right away, definitely helps with feel (less lever travel needed since the lines don't swell upon application). Biggest difference I've felt otherwise is when upgrading the brake pads and master cylinder.
@one-of-us9939
4 жыл бұрын
My biggest braking difficulty is with that loose nut between the clip-ons and the seat. I brake too early, but that is on my list to improve next. It has been said: "If you can't stop fast... you probably shouldn't go fast." Thanks Dan!
@rickyrollerv2
5 жыл бұрын
As always, great video. As someone who suffers from brake fade in the track, mainly due to bike and rider weight, riding / braking style, and poor stopping power from the factory braking system, this video made me to get the steps to check in the right order for future upgrades. Thanks!
@mikedinni6318
5 жыл бұрын
Oh, and it'd be interesting to hear your views on wavey discs. As it was the same price for my EBC discs compared to their wavey discs. But my mechanic reckons they aren't as good because they have less surface area. Therefore less stopping power. He said "you don't see them on racing bikes, so that says something".
@Botadios
5 жыл бұрын
The main idea is less weight. But it's nothing comparing to the weight of track-useless parts like mirrors or lights. Another thing is temperature. They're not done to support race temperature. Besides wavey discs cause much faster pads end.
@garymarshall724
5 жыл бұрын
Wavy discs are a gimmick and sometimes can give a pulsing feel. Stay clear
@filmcamera
5 жыл бұрын
Nice video as always, thanks but I am surprised your did not mention brake discs, old or worn discs can lower braking performance as well.
@AlexsteinFR
5 жыл бұрын
I agree. Using oversized or thicker disc gives a very good feeling and better performances. Also monobloc calipers gives good performance consistency. 😊
@djg9589
5 жыл бұрын
Good, informative video as always 😁👍🏻 Braided lines and sintered pads should be the first change anyone makes to any bike, road or track.
@michaelriley8770
5 жыл бұрын
Sunyata you're forgetting the costs involved compared to performance gained. Yes correct settings should be implied because if you know how to set preload then it's free but you say people who buy brembo cylinders have money to burn but you also suggest buying an ohlins rear shock?! Truth is that a £200 master cylinder is great investment for the average track day rider and an ohlins shock isn't going to save someone's arse as often as decent tyres and brakes.
@djg9589
5 жыл бұрын
Sunyata obviously you’re wealthier than the average Joe here. And I don’t know if you just conveniently ignored what I said “for track or road” braided lines are the best, cheapest upgrade you can do to a bike. Some BSB STK1000 teams run the standard pads in their ZX10’s. Although seeing that the majority of people will have slightly older fireblades, 600 super sports, pads and lines are a good start. And when budget allows, then start doing the personal touches likes rear sets etc.
@djg9589
5 жыл бұрын
Sunyata hahaha here we go, another classless fool swinging lap times around like anyone cares. Take care 👍🏻
@BergasJuergas
3 ай бұрын
Gràcies per el vídeo!!! Salutacions des de Mallorca Bros!!! Alobiuu Willy Boom!!!
@Errol.C-nz
Жыл бұрын
deglaze disk faces & champher the vent holes in the disks & fine wire brush the face of the pads when prominent carbon smudge marks or grooves start to appear on the disks
@manwithabird
2 жыл бұрын
This is all semantics really , bigger master cylinders do give you a stronger break . It also changes feel and how much pressure you need to get the bike stopped . I run a few bikes , 250 400 and 500. They all have different setups . Even on a lightweight 250 I have still to work on later breaking and faster corner speed. The 250 setup has OEM master, braided line ,HH pads and a serrated rotor . Plenty of break ,I can easily get the rear wheel up while breaking .I change the break fluid twice a yr . Yes the rotors get real hot. My thinking is a bigger master is essential for 500cc and up where weight also comes into play.
@manwithabird
2 жыл бұрын
Also I buy Chinese levers and they sometimes are not made to perform to the best of the masters ability . | have wielded a spot on the lever where it comes in contact with the piston . This has had a big gain in the piston travel (pro tip)
@jaja990
3 жыл бұрын
I decrease size of my mc by 1 point, and i feel better brake performance with the same amount force to lever.
@TopSpeedTommy
5 жыл бұрын
First track day - experienced significant brake fade so that when i used the brakes as much as i prefered too they would overheat and i would have temporary instances where i would have no brake force at all. Not good and forced me to be slower than i could be. that was on oem brake lines and ebc sintered hh brake pads.I replaced my oem rubber lines on the 04 R1 with Galfer superbike braided 3 lines, 2 into on into master cylinder lines with direct thread to caliper. On my 4th track dayI tried Galfer brake pads racing ceramic which i believe also has sintered metal in the pad. I did not loose my brakes but the galfer ceramic race pads were disappointing as they did make the brake lever feel soft as soon as i got them to racing temperatures.on my 2nd 3rdI and soon to be 5th track day i have used "Vortex Racing Carbon" brake pads. These pads take a couple laps to get fully heated but are awesome pads, I dont know if its even possible to overheat these pads as they get better with heat. I was only able to heat them to full operating efficieny while on the race track, with the exception of one 95 degree day where i was street riding in city and on and off the brakes at every light, hard...other than that one day on the streets, the streets dont usually heats these pads to optimum operating temps. After all this experience i will only run Vortex Racing Carbon brake pads on the track. I am still on oem rotors. oem master cylinder...
@c.g.c2067
Жыл бұрын
I would have placed a radial master cylinder as the very first option together with brake pads
@Botadios
5 жыл бұрын
Nice video. Thanks. Just some points. It depends on bike state (if it's new or used) but brake line change should be done at first. In case the bike isn't brand new, brake liquid should be changed even before starting the engine for the first time. I'm quite aware about the master cylinder change. There's not only braking efficiency that counts but the best possible feedback. I think that master cylinder should be conform to all system components that follow. Maybe it's better to replace level itself, if it brings more straight feedback and ergonomics (in terms of its shape and positioning options). Apart braking pads there are breaking discs that could make a big difference. It's not cheap at all, but it's the thing to do before starting looking at aftermarket cylinders.
@FerruccioCasoni
Жыл бұрын
I definitely hate most of the new abs lines that comes with new bikes, some are made better but specifically on my F3 675 (MV Agusta) the feeling on the lever is very poor, the line needs bleeding almost every week and the rear brake loses power after few kms… I changed the original nissin pump with a brembo one, something is way better now but there is still a braking line that’s twice as long as the non abs model and with the abs valves at midway…
@dannygernaat9961
3 жыл бұрын
Is it worth to upgrade my master cylinder? My fireblade is from 2010
@DmanGuitar327
5 жыл бұрын
Im sure ebc race sintered are harder on rotors than the HH. Fitting a 05 r1 16mm MC on my srad. Should work great
@steffydog
5 жыл бұрын
Good stuff
@PAD32
5 жыл бұрын
Hello. The guy from Engeenering Explained said in a video that braided brakes lines are not that much more efficient compared to modern rubber lines, is it true? Also I have a more specific question. After some track days with my 2012 CBR 600 F, my front brake discs became slightly blue, like if it over heated, and I think I have to pull harder to get full braking power, but maybe it's more due to my brake pads. Should I be worried about thoses discs?
@blitzkrieg263
5 жыл бұрын
modern and fresh rubber lines are good, yes. but yours are already 6 years old and can become squishy with time. Another thing not stated here is the resistance to heat : the liquid gets heated up as you brake hard and braided lines will maintain their shape where the rubber may slightly expand, absorbing some pressure..
@AuMechanic
5 жыл бұрын
Engineering Explained is the last place you should take advice from. He draws a good diagram and sounds convincing to those who wouldn't know either way but in reality has a lot of half baked theories he pulled out of thin air and I doubt he has ever turned a spanner in his life and is extremely lazy when it comes to doing proper research on the subjects he give tutorials on. People like him, some of them engineers, make a common mistake of believing that everything on vehicles and engines is explained by the simplest of engineering principles when in fact many systems operate on quite complex principles that are not intuitive and requires experience and actual training to know.
@PAD32
5 жыл бұрын
@@AuMechanic AuMechanic I don't say that he is the god of mechanics, but I still learned a lot from this channel. I don't know any 100% reliable source, that's why we need a critical mind. He's doing a great job explaining cars related concepts. You're definitly not objective saying that it's "the last place" I should take advice from. It's a vulgarisation channel on youtube, not an engeenering school
@AuMechanic
5 жыл бұрын
@@PAD32 You may believe you have learned a lot from him but unless you did alternative research yourself or already knew beforehand there is no way to know if what you learned was right, the fact he sounds convincing inst enough and there are numerous channels run by working qualified mechanics you can get advice from that will properly inform you on such topics. To be disseminating flawed automotive tech information is unconscious incompetence and an engineer of all people should know better than to do it.
@SuperBoomer95
5 жыл бұрын
Braided lines on motorcycles makes a pretty big difference. Suzuki's brakes are pretty spungy from factory and putting on braided lines usually fixes that. The rubber lines do expand under pressure. Not much but for motorcycles it doesn't take much. I think he was referring to cars. And they don't have much impact
@greatestmaverick
5 жыл бұрын
Brake rotors? Galfer?
@nanditofadhil2535
4 жыл бұрын
Hey guys! Which one is more important? Upgrading the master cylinder or calipers?
@harrybrown4815
5 жыл бұрын
Z750s 2005 front suspension swapped out for ZZR600 with tokico 4 pot calipers and 5/8 master cylinder all refurbished. Ferodo ST pads fitted. Do not grab the front brake at any speed it will lock the front wheel ,just have to apply gentle pressure and feel the brakes hauling the bike to a stop. I've even been down an airstrip and a 100 mph put the anchors to see how quick it would stop with the upgrade on and thought my wrists were going to snap in the process. Since doing the upgrade the brakes have saved my bacon on one occasion but only because no one was behind me as the guy in the car not looking or indicating just decides to pull out of his stationary lane and into mine thanks you headless T"£$ almost stopped I ride up the dropped kerb and on to pavement which is right next to me and ride along side this guy for 400 meters he never sees me and drives off totally unaware of anything. There was no one on the pavement by the way and at no point did I put anyone else in danger because of this mans' actions. So yes I'm very pleased with this upgrade.
@mikedinni6318
5 жыл бұрын
Literally just got my bike back from my bike mechanic. Just had a full fluid change front and rear. New EBC discs and pads on the front and just EBC pads on the rear. Plus a new DID chain and sprocket, and a service. All for the lovely price of £675. But! OMG it's so worth it. I haven't even bedded the discs and pads in yet and it's already better than the stock set-up I had before. I did look at a Brembo master cylinder but that was another £350.
@Jaded-Wanderer
5 жыл бұрын
You don't need to pay as much as £350 for a really good Brembo master cylinder. The Brembo Racing 15 RCS is worth a look.
@mikedinni6318
5 жыл бұрын
@@Jaded-Wanderer they're still £250+. Not worth spending anymore on my bike to be honest. It's a K3 GSXR. I'd end up spending nearly half its value in brake upgrades and it won't increase its value at all. If I wanted better brakes I'd get a newer bike. But these EBC pads and discs plus new fluid has made enough of a difference for now. 👍🏻 Thanks for the info though 👍🏻
@michaelriley8770
5 жыл бұрын
You can get brembo 19rcs brand new for £200 on eBay. Myself and 4 others have bought them over the years and they're still there for that price. Don't forget that you simply remove the cylinder and put it on your new bike when the time comes, they're a great investment when you consider that. They even work on modern abs systems with no other modifications.
@mikedinni6318
5 жыл бұрын
@@michaelriley8770 might have to give it a think. I need a new helmet this year too. 😣
@michaelriley8770
5 жыл бұрын
There's always something 😂
@lnaesll
5 жыл бұрын
Everyone always want more and more power. But people who actually ride will tell you brakes and suspension are far more impactful.
@Pstaines439
Жыл бұрын
Avoid cheap brake fluid. I boiled my brake fluid on a track day. I'd foolishly used cheap Castrol generic DOT4. Changing to Brembo fluid solved the issue.
@darvishhussain8602
5 жыл бұрын
When to change brake pads: my 19rcs is eating pads a bit faster!!
@fhhfgj
4 жыл бұрын
If you can't stop don't start.
@mattmann6328
5 жыл бұрын
Also go to the gym and lose some fat . Think about it a train a truck anything heavy takes more time to stop, more time to accelerate Look "Phill Crowe" high level rider but he is about 4 seconds a lap off lap record speed . Witch is still Bloody fast considering he is 100 kg. I'm not sure of he's I'll of man TT Times but that's more a big balls track I believe it's more open, flowing so he wouldn't be as disadvantaged there as he would be a stop go track
@LifeatLean
5 жыл бұрын
Phil Crowe is very fast. I like to use him as the reference for people who think they're too big. That said you are right, there's easy gains to make from losing weight.
@mattmann6328
5 жыл бұрын
@@LifeatLean Yea thanxs mate I watched him at cadwall park for he's size he is inspiring for sure . Thanxs for your great videos Cheers
@GroovyVideo2
5 жыл бұрын
For a Beginner or or Not real experienced Increasing Braking power can be Giant mistake - Locking up brakes puts a Lot of people on pavement -
@randydalmas
4 жыл бұрын
The chances of locking a front wheel in dry conditions on the race track, even under heavy braking, is extremely rare. A racebike will lift the rear wheel off the ground (stoppies) long before it locks the front wheel. However, racing in the wet is another story...
@tomfull6637
3 жыл бұрын
E=m x c2 Get off that pizzajunkfood diet, loose 40 pounds and experience some remarkable stopping improvements!....
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