If you were in the caller's spot on the river would you just call or raise/shove?
@therealzackd
2 жыл бұрын
This lead looks super scary to me I'd just call
@martinvlad
2 жыл бұрын
call because all villians bluffs will just fold and kevin is not blocking 33. Seems a bit too thin to raise here although maybe can get a crying call from Kx.
@TheAndysim66
2 жыл бұрын
This board was pretty scary to me. Add in the fact that this game was five handed, the villain’s range would be expanded to include some hands that included three’s. I would have called.
@OGgrinder
2 жыл бұрын
9/10 just call
@z17seattle
2 жыл бұрын
OKAY BART...What did he say at @0:20 it looked pretty funny!
@lesliehamilton2020
2 жыл бұрын
That river bet is a snap call. Never a shove. In my mind he'd play 33 exactly the same way, which is what I initially expected. You're never getting a worse hand to call you in that spot. It's easy to look at trip Queens and get shove happy, but on that board he's either got a total airball, or you're absolutely dominated. Cheers!
@williamr4053
2 жыл бұрын
There’s a couple of players that play crazy loose like the caller described in the video at my home casino. Bart hit the nail on the head. When they’re gambling most, it’s mostly always preflop. If they’re shoveling money in on the turn and river, they have a very good draw or a made hand. These types of players love the gamble, so their range is 52 cards, but only preflop. They could have 72 or just like the caller KK. However, in my experience, they usually call an all in preflop, while they’ll make a standard 3 or 4 bet preflop with a good hand if they’re the ones opening the action.
@2017Fed
2 жыл бұрын
truth
@anthonymorris6801
2 жыл бұрын
I really appreciate your vlogs they are informative and to the point. Thank you very much.
@davepalex
2 жыл бұрын
Legit thought this was Jonnie vibes calling in
@timohettinger9178
2 жыл бұрын
Wtf????!? Jv sounds completely different!!?!
@Hyde_and_Seek
2 жыл бұрын
@@timohettinger9178 if by completely you mean almost very similar then yeah
@davepalex
2 жыл бұрын
@Timo Hettinger do you really think he sounds "completely different". Sometimes Bart has streamers call in and I totally thought it was Jonny vibes until the end when the caller said his name.
@StevieSparkZ
2 жыл бұрын
While listening, I didn't think the caller sounded like Johnny Vibes. After I read these comments and listened again? I can definitely understand why someone assumed that it was JV.
@clownworld5474
2 жыл бұрын
@@timohettinger9178 you my must stroke yourself everyday to JV videos to say 'its completely different' what a sad guy
@DescartesRenegade
2 жыл бұрын
Villian bet for value and Hero is shoving for value, so the only question is "what hands will Villian call with?" QX is not one of them. So shoving simply because hero thinks Villian has worse than AQ is bad reasoning. He's only getting called by AQ or better here. It's just a call and never a shove.
@y-sdahms212
2 жыл бұрын
Totally true.
@jcw8955
2 жыл бұрын
it’s spelled villain
@mhluska
2 жыл бұрын
Nah. False dichotomy. It entirely depends on how much the shove is for. If you shove 1.1x a worse Qx can call. If you shove 1000x obviously only the nuts will call. Sizing matters.
@Matthew-gg8ep
2 жыл бұрын
Great stuff especially the end talked about reverting to the mean that is 100% true
@jf5618
2 жыл бұрын
What Q from UTG doesn’t raise turn on 2 flush…one that doesn’t need any protection.
@Gos1234567
2 жыл бұрын
Good point which Bart missed i suppose,a Qx would definetly raise that turn.
@thomasrandall2138
2 жыл бұрын
If Villain Tank Calls the river with KQ, we can assume he's going to fold Qx OTR. My guess is that Hero is underrating Villain's capacities.
@conephompany
2 жыл бұрын
I think villain is nit rolling and is never seriously considering folding kq
@effortlessawareness8778
2 жыл бұрын
My guess is that villain runs better than hero
@EfficientRVer
2 жыл бұрын
My opinion on this one, is that hero thought he was the better player, and he actually probably wasn't. I thought hero's flop bet was a nice dual-purpose block/probe/c bet. I thought his turn bet was an OK value/probe bet. And I thought his river raise was where he absolutely showed that he had no idea that villain might be as smart as him; that even the most terrible players get dealt great hands as often as anyone else; and that to raise this river bet on this line this deep, you need the nuts. He didn't need a cheap showdown, but he didn't need to throw away money that won't get called by worse. He wanted it to be a value bet by a worse queen, despite no real evidence of that. The chance of it being true, was much lower than he thought. I'd say that villain outplayed him, but the more important thing is that hero just made a real blunder with the river raise. He put unnecessary icing on the cake for villain. I don't blame villain for not snap calling the river. He was probably thinking "Crap, how can he raise this river without the nuts? Maybe I'm actually beat. But I've seen him make a few mistakes before, so I guess I have to call. If he has KK, he has KK. Maybe we're chopping. Call"
@Gos1234567
2 жыл бұрын
Good post.I was thinking "this guy is one of the more intelligent players that has called in" until he was coming up with reasons to shove on that board just because V will call any Qxs pre (supposedly). Bart does kinda contradict himself too when he goes "oh will if he calls all Qxs pre then its a shove" but later says just cause someones lose pre doesnt mean they always spaz out on rivers.The guy could have any Qx but will he call a river shove with those?
@ilya4759
2 жыл бұрын
The reason I don't raise the river is the sizing. It's too big for a blocker bet, so it's either thick value or a bluff
@Gos1234567
2 жыл бұрын
yea even if it was a smallish blocker type bet,they probably wont call a raise anyway
@ilya4759
2 жыл бұрын
@@Gos1234567 hard to imagine anyone leading the river with a full house for a tiny bet.... Unless they are looking to get raised by exactly AQ
@william420adam
2 жыл бұрын
I think by hero classifying the type of villain as loose doesn’t mean he’s as wide here as Q5s but I think what hero means is villain most likely has Q9s and Q8s almost to a full weight and possibly has QJo in which case we really should be shoving the river. I mean we if he just has QJo here then we have way more than enough combos to jam and be happy with it. And based on hero’s assessment of villain where he’s pretty much pure 3b AQo here versus him means villains is opening a wide CO and defending a wider range than what is probably ideal. I mean he has KQo so hero’s assessment seems pretty spot on
@ride1123
2 жыл бұрын
this caller sounds like the guy from criminally listed
@ActionKingsPoker
2 жыл бұрын
im just calling the bet doesnt seem like much is calling a raise there that is losing after betting all 3 streets then jam from hero
@novapokerplayer207
2 жыл бұрын
This type of shove is almost certainly acceptable in a typical 1/3 game, but in a 5/10/20 game where effective stacks are like 250 bigs, it's flat out crazy. You HAVE to assume your field is a better caliber of player, unless one of them clearly demonstrates he doesn't know what he's doing.
@PhonyBologna
2 жыл бұрын
Caller said he was playing with Villain for 2 hours, so he had a decent read on him. You'd be surprised, fish are fish, and some have money. A lot just treat poker as a table game. The big difference is the regulars are generally better, and there are fewer fish at the higher stakes. The caller is a good player though, I have played with him about 3-4 times or so. His reads are generally very good. However, my own reads are that donks for this size on a paired board are generally nutted, so I would expect the worse Qx holdings like QTo to continue to check-call and only consider check 2.5x raising if it's an absurdly small river bet like 1/4. EG: Hero bets 350 and Villain check raise bumps it to 1k when pot is 1400. Villains leading range is likely value heavy with only partials of QJ being the very bottom of it say half of the combos (6 combos), followed by AQ (3 combos), 33 (3 combos), and KQ (3 combos), and likely ~ 1.5 combos of slow played KK based on villains profile of being a bit loose passive preflop. Realistically I think you are correct that many fish villains at this level are good enough to get away from QJ, but depends if he has been caught bluffing a lot, which he said he was. So maybe villain only folds 1/2 his QJ holdings to a jam, hard to say. This is at least my read on the situation.
@pot_kivach160
2 жыл бұрын
H ignored several consecutive road signs that clearly posted: “Railway xing ahead”. No wonder his light truck in full speed smashed into a freight train. 💥🎆
@kf7914
2 жыл бұрын
Even if he had the Qx trash hands in his range, which seems unlikely, the fact that he tanked with KQ means there's a good chance he would have folded weaker trips to a shove anyway.
@xanthro1195
2 жыл бұрын
Stopped at 10:00, First impression is to raise, but thinking about it more, I'm leaning toward a call, because I think Villain bet folds almost any hand that you beat, and only calls when good. I can't think of a hand that villain will call a raise on the river, except as a bluff catcher, but there are not many bluffs here. Would you take this line with JT or AK and villain knows that? Then maybe he'll call a raise on the river. Is QJ calling your raise thinking they are good? You could easily have KK here, or KQ, and it seems odd that you'd raise QT or worse. QJ is the only hand I can think that could call, outside of a bluff catcher, so it all comes down to your image with the villain, they think you bluff here and will call with worse, raise. They way I play, I'd call, because while I'd play JT suited here, and sometimes shove the river, it would be uncommon enough that calling would be EV- The problem is that villain has very limited hands as well, KQ is blocked by you and the board, only the Qs remains. KK would likely 4 bet, and 33 is a pretty loose, but possible hand. The issue is that more hands beat you than you beat, but not so many that a call here is EV-, but I think raising is negative EV.
@ryanjones4150
2 жыл бұрын
This hand is a great example of knowing your opponent and going with your knowledge of how they play. If he really has some high off-suit queens and some bad suited ones, it's a clear shove. The results are irrelevant. Also, if you play a lot, other players are going to remember this hand, and you will reap benefits from it in the future. For me, it would depend on if losing the extra money if I'm wrong is a bankroll management situation, if not, go with your analysis. I play every day at much lower stakes, but I know for sure that I get called for a big bet sometimes because my opponent saw my miscalculation the week before when I made a big bet like this.
@williamr4053
2 жыл бұрын
There’s talk about short handed and hands to defend. I may be the only one, but under Covid protocols in 2020, my casino went to 6 handed. That was the worst 9 month run I’ve had in my poker career. Everyone’s range was wide and I was King of second best hand. I just kept running into it. Short handed makes you think they can’t have a strong hand, because well you’re playing 6 or even 5 handed. I found in a cash game, they can absolutely have a strong hand and they will jam it in your face. Me personally, I only play short handed if it’s a tournament and I’m on the final table. That year of short handed Covid poker scarred me for life!
@Tell_It_Right
2 жыл бұрын
I love these vids! I usually pause and think through the flop, turn, and river to see how close I can get. In this case, I was actually close cause I thought the villian could easily have AQ, KsQs, or maybe 33 so I thought it was best to just call and close the action.
@darenzou
2 жыл бұрын
also the bigger the pot is, the more play reverts. a guy who splashes around in small to medium pots will revert to a higher level of play once the pots get big to huge.
@Williy_Nilly
2 жыл бұрын
Either villain was playing with scared money, or sly like a fox... I think it's the first option.
@fevolenko3995
2 жыл бұрын
Wrong on both counts imo. They're gambling and splashy usually - that's not scared money. And not sly either, but when they hit a monster they like to needle by slowrolling and acting surprised when they knew damn well. It tilts ppl and they love that. That's why they call anything pre. To get lucky and therefore give bad beats
@Williy_Nilly
2 жыл бұрын
@@fevolenko3995 That's sly like a fox, which based on his play was not the case or he would have shoved. He was playing with sacred money 💰
@Gos1234567
2 жыл бұрын
No!Its just as in a post abovre,V isnt as bad as Hero makes out,after a lead and then an allin V is just thinking "what the hell shoves to my lead on that board that i beat" Of course he has to call but i would think V was a bit shocked to see just trips being shoved.Hero played the hand wrong not V
@chuck55545
2 жыл бұрын
Could have QJ, Q10, could float flop with all suited broadways due to tiny sizing. He doesn’t have Q5s. This is a very polarizing bet, doesn’t make much sense to jam imo.
@daisybelle2336
2 жыл бұрын
Wow, Villain is absolutely petrified money. He was definitely looking for monsters under the bed, in the closet and probably thought one was right behind him. *SPOILER* He just calls the flop with top 2, doesn't re-raise the turn with the 2nd nuts and re-raised all in on the river, after tanking!? At first impression, it seems like an amazing slow play, inducing Hero to shove the river. Which ultimately, villain re-raised all in, but still great - seeming. But to hear he put Hero on KK and was actually just playing that scared!
@nvme9361
2 жыл бұрын
But what hands does hero shove with that he beats? The same hand KQ, obviously AQ combos, and KK. So taking a moment isn't that big a deal to me.
@Justice4Skye
2 жыл бұрын
While I agree with you, these types of players often are the type to take raises as always AA, KK it's a weird psychological thing with some rec players who are playing above their limit. But... it's not like this was a small game, so villain could just be omc, frugal, even in a younger man's body 😆. ESPECIALLY the fact he BLOCKED kings and there's only ONE EXACTLY ONE COMBO LEFT. Any "thinking" player, will realize ESPECIALLY since there was a straddle, even if they are the type to over respect raises and see them as always premiums, that with straddle and dead money out there ...ranges are WIDE open, so while kk is possible, common sense would tell player that any king is unlikely for hero. In fact, if villain was thinking at all he would realize any boats were literally impossibly for HERO to have and honestly blocking so much with KQ I would be weighting HERO to a bluff as my(his) image is scared money and check river. Is he raising the straddle with 22 and getting to the river, betting multiple streets.. no, 44? MAYBE but that's three combos...the rest are all bluffs statistically. Hero having AA is much more likely then KK and therefore it's bluffs that missed for hero or AA, both which checking to him on the river wouldn't be the worst play given the chances of him having a queen slim. Honestly, only I think Villain ACCIDENTALLY played it perfectly. Only thing he could have done differently, that may have been more sound, but might have cost him getting it all on the river, would have been raising the turn. I say that, because if hero has the most likely hand in that spot, something like J10 suited or a gut shot that picked up hearts on the turn, I think a raise is "ok"...but villain is clearly a REC and playing that type of game I'd say he can either afford it or he's taking shots from lower stakes and scared money. Good hand.
@scotrobinson6692
2 жыл бұрын
I disagree. He was always calling but just wanted to run through the various scenarios to make sure he’s not missing anything. The hero’s play did not make sense to the V because from his worldview, nobody is raising without a FH and given the fact that the hero 3bet pre, his likely FHs are KQ (chop) and KK. I might think about it a bit, probably not a minute, but the hero is likely exaggerating the time. It’s a great idea and habit to think through these river calls a bit. In this case it’s always a call but other times taking a little time could be helpful.
@kellerh-town
2 жыл бұрын
In my personal opinion, I think the opponent waiting till the river to lead is a lot scarier than him raising earlier. Seems less like a worse trips and more like a super slow play. Anyone else think that worse trips tends to start raising earlier ?
@mattdawson5007
2 жыл бұрын
Agreed. If I'm the villain here, I probably take a similar line. Once he smashes the flop, he's hoping the hero had AA, JJ, Qx or similar hand. The one and only hand he's afraid of is KK and QQ, which he blocks. When he fills up, that kills QQ, so it's check call, check call, bet for value and pray for a jam, which he got. As played, I probably call the river as the hero, expecting a chop. Never folding, but doubtful I'm jamming.
@TiltedHVACpoker
2 жыл бұрын
Just commenting on a few videos ago. There is one poker room in Kentucky. The Royal Social Club, in London. Please bring online poker back to Kentucky! Lol. So i can work from home.👊
@thaThRONe
2 жыл бұрын
This is a call on the river IMO. Half of his range that can call a jam have you beat. The only logical losing hands your villain has that can call are QJs or Q10s. All other hands likely fold preflop or flop. That leaves hands like KQ and 3's. A's and K's you almost certainly get a 4 bet pre.
@Capzlock08
2 жыл бұрын
Hey Bart I have a really cool hand with a lot of hand history on villian but it's online. Would you be interested in reviewing it? I will submit it and see what happens. Think it would be cool! Thanks.
@tylerslenk8243
2 жыл бұрын
River is just a snap call. No other play to make there.
@andya7964
2 жыл бұрын
When the V lead for 2/3 pot or whatever, I thought the discussion was going to be between making a very exploitable fold and calling. It didn't really occur to me that we could jam here. Not that I think its anywhere close to a fold. But to me the $1,000 lead on the river is very polar. It struck me as someone with a monster worried that you're going to check back. I do agree that if the V has as much Q-x as the caller says, then I would jam. But I guess I'm skeptical of that, especially with the lead for some reason.
@JonyBetancourt
2 жыл бұрын
I’m calling there all day. IMO you need to have an extremely good read on someone to shove there and expect to get called by worse.
@connman8d617
2 жыл бұрын
You can tell how awful his read was that he assumed he would get called by worse trips when, in reality, the guy got nervous about calling it off with the 2nd nuts.
@fevolenko3995
2 жыл бұрын
He DID have a good read. If someone calls a 3 bet with Q5s then flops 2nd pair and turns trips, hes NEVER folding because he instantly gave you AA or AK. Yes AK should never shove but terrible players that call Q5 WOULD so they think you would...
@connman8d617
2 жыл бұрын
@Fevolenko If the guy doesn't snap with a boat, then I don't think there's a chance in hell that he would call it off with a shitty combo of trips. He has the literal 2nd nuts only beaten by 1 combo of the nuts and he tanks. Obviously a bad read.
@moaf2padventures757
2 жыл бұрын
turn feels wrong to me. super unbalanced. i think i prefer keeping ranges super wide here. either check back or bet like 25-33% pot. id like to hear peoples thoughts on this.
@Ohrami
2 жыл бұрын
How? Board is great for you, and the turn card allows for huge polarization that can allow a huge portion of your range play to for stacks.
@conephompany
2 жыл бұрын
If he reads villain as a spot and has had bluffs picked off earlier by villain, then he doesn't necessarily need to consider balance and can just go for value. Thoughts?
@moaf2padventures757
2 жыл бұрын
@@conephompany oh for sure. personally im not sure how much i trust our hero's read of the situation but i suppose thats a discussion for another time lol. also if he really felt that way why not bomb it for like 125% pot?? i was talking more about the hand in a vaccuum (i realize i didnt exactly make that clear from my original comment). this sizing just feels wrong to me, im curious if anyone ran it through pio. i feel like its going to have a lot of small bets and even some check backs.
@moaf2padventures757
2 жыл бұрын
@@Ohrami lol wat
@scotrobinson6692
2 жыл бұрын
Good hand. One point that they didn’t mention was… does he donk lead river with a bad Q? I think most players are happy they have the Q but given he was 3bet PRE is not thrilled and would be happy to just check/call river. A FH makes more sense here.
@Justice4Skye
2 жыл бұрын
The fact villain doesn't raise the turn when there's open ended, GS and fd's available, has to give you some pause, AFTER he leads the river. Him, leading the river kind of eliminates the small possibility he had any draws, missed and is bluffing and more so has a monster and wants to ensure he doesn't check and you check back something like a king. So adding in his lead and the fact he didn't think he needed protection on the turn, flop, etc, it's pretty safe to say he's got a monster, specifically kk or kq as if he tanked with KQ, he's the type of player that might even check all smaller boats on river, or lead smaller. NTL it's an interesting hand and it all comes down to knowing your player. Someone who tanks with KQ on that river shove isn't someone I think is going to EVER have small suited queens there as mentioned. Eliminating the Q5, And especially Q3 and Q2 hands that make boats. Any other queen that's not a boat he's going to check river, you value bet, hopefully small enough for him to call as player isn't the type to call an overbet there,(which seems he can be exploited in many other spots with over bets, but that's another story). I don't play professionally and wasn't patient enough to do so years ago. Nowadays I could probably do pretty good for myself, but life's too stressful as it is, I just enjoy listening to these talks and Bart's brilliant advice.
@danielshatz5958
2 жыл бұрын
I think this is the first time I heartily disagree with Bart. I think river is a call. The way this hand was played it’s a boat or a flush/straight draw and on the river unless the player is a super beginner, he’s never betting the failed draw with this line. Even if he makes the fish play by betting with the draw after this line, he’s not calling a raise, so it doesn’t matter That leaves hands weaker than queens. What hands weaker than heroes takes this line? Most of those hands ARE likely checking the river after just check calling the turn. Why would they do any different? If they thought they were ahead with a weak queen why not raise the turn, or let hero hang himself with a third barrel on the river. This way they keep the pot down when they are beat. And if this is a blocking bet (too big) once we raise the weaker hand will likely get away. if you’ve seen your opponent double barrel and then you get raised after you bet the river, even QJ is put in a tough spot. I just don’t think there’s enough value to raise here. Call all day
@Scottjf8
2 жыл бұрын
Still waiting on Bart's video of the dude looking at Barry's hole cards on the Hustler stream a few weeks ago.
@Gos1234567
2 жыл бұрын
Really?🤣🤣🤣🤣Did it end up outside?
@CrushlivePoker
2 жыл бұрын
Is there really anything more that needs to be said?
@Scottjf8
2 жыл бұрын
@@Gos1234567 kzitem.info This guy has a few videos about it, showing how he did it, and he interviewed Barry the other day.
@Scottjf8
2 жыл бұрын
@@CrushlivePoker Maybe. Postle pt 2. Alex Duvall's interview with Barry was pretty good.
@mikeob6325
2 жыл бұрын
super cautious when i bet all the way and on river V comes out betting...crying call or fold if all in bet...not going to RR
@themaniac8294
2 жыл бұрын
I put him on KQ from the flop check call. Wow, I love poker, it makes perfect sense every time.
@connman8d617
2 жыл бұрын
You narrowed his range down to 6 combos of hands because he check/called the flop? Okay guy.
@StuartFerguson55
2 жыл бұрын
@@connman8d617 He's a maniac.
@daisybelle2336
2 жыл бұрын
@Stuart 😂!!
@patrickclark7714
2 жыл бұрын
Hind site is always 20/20 and easy for me to arm chair quarterback here, but as played, the river bet SCREAMED K/Q to me. Maybe I'm just a nit too......lol
@StuartFerguson55
2 жыл бұрын
Yep, hind sight/nit confirmed.
@cameronandrew1853
2 жыл бұрын
Not good to put a person on one single hand. I would’ve been weary probably just a call
@patrickclark7714
2 жыл бұрын
@@cameronandrew1853 never folding there. Like you though, I probably just make the call.
@mistafabro
2 жыл бұрын
Caller is definitely just covering his ass by saying villain has all Qxs. This was just a bad shove.
@m271-c1h
2 жыл бұрын
This guy sounds like James Cromwell
@fevolenko3995
2 жыл бұрын
These are the ones that annoy the shit out of me because Bart is always shocked by ppl playing QT to a raise or Q5s etc. 80% of players play all of these and in the case of Q5 would 100% value bet or shove Q5 on the river. Hand from today. (Yes bad beat but in context to make my point so STFU). 2/5 I'm on button. Straddles are rare but the last time was straddled 2 laps earlier I had QQ on button. Straddles is a LAG and I did the old "I better raise extra coz its you" and made it $50. 4 callers and on 962KT I lost to TTT. So anyway as I said 2 or 3 laps later and same guy straddles again. I look down at AA. 3 ppl call the $10 so I make it $70. Utg who plays 100%vpip calls. Flop is Jd 9h 7d. He checks I bet $90 he calls. Turn is 3d. I have AsAd. Unlike Bart's experience where this guy can't have Q5 etc, in my experience he could have ANYTHING. J9 QT 333, but honestly even 93! But he could also have KQ or 45 with 5d hoping any diamond is an out. I call off $300 all in. He had 9s2d River 2h Two pair wins👍 Vs same guy today I had A8 on Qc 8h 7c 8c He bet $150 on turn I flat. River 5c He had Kd4c This is how most people in my game play and today was 10th session I lost in a row. Last year I won 75% of sessions and won over 10bb an hour overall. Since January I'm losing $150 per hour getting it in as big favourite in 95% of my all ins.. Bottom line is all the pio solvers etc aggregate all the maths buy those solvers take the mean avg. The fact is that some people do run good most their life and some run bad most their life. The avg of that is correct math averages, but individually the numbers/% mean nothing.. You're either lucky more often than not, or you're not.
@z17seattle
2 жыл бұрын
What a comment, when does your book come out?
@williamr4053
2 жыл бұрын
That is a fair assessment. I’ve played with some players who run well the majority of their sessions. They’ve built an image that teeter totters on TAG with some LAG mixed in. They tighten up on a skilled table and loosen up on a table they have a big edge. What makes them their money is simple, people will put money in way behind to try and stack them. The key to them winning is they rack up at the right time, the majority of the time. They don’t stick around too long to get sucked out on and lose 80% of their profit. You may need to work and focus on your image a little. Maybe your bets are telegraphing a tighter range than you think, and they are picking up on that and getting extremely sticky. The hands you are running into at showdown makes me think you have a betting tell. Sure, it is a lot of gambling from your opponents, but I think you may have a little betting leak
@fevolenko3995
2 жыл бұрын
@@williamr4053 I accept that is a possibility, but if im all in "everytime" as a 85%+ favourite, then technically their read is wrong... and in theory I want their call everytime. Obviously results oriented I don't want the calls once they hit that 1 2 or 3 outer that they genuinely seem to hit 80-90% instead of the 2-8% they should ... The only reliable read they have imo is "this guy runs so bad I'll probably hit" AND THEY'RE RIGHT 👨🎤😂
@fevolenko3995
2 жыл бұрын
@@z17seattle That WAS my book 👌
@AT-bw4cm
2 жыл бұрын
It's the nature of the game. Be glad you can find such a soft game. Do you think the fish are winning over time when they are constantly getting it in a big dog. If they are such huge stations, you need to find more spots where you are getting thin value. There are other strategies to limit variance as well. Don't squeeze if there's a ton of limpers and you think the first guy will call bringing everyone else behind in also. Pot control until you get to the river. They can't out draw you after the river plus stations don't bluff rivers. Have a good bankroll. Maybe move down to 1-3. Taking constant bad beats and keeping a good frame of mind is the hardest thing to do in poker. Nobody is exempt from run bad.
@Justice4Skye
2 жыл бұрын
If you REALLY take the time to dissect this hand, you can extrapolate SO much information, which many live players don't take into account. I know when I was younger(37 now and don't have a casino within 100 miles) but I would play similar to villain here when I was very basic, inexperienced, either shot taking at higher stakes...or, just pressing buttons. The only thing that leads me to think Villain is a "semi" thinking player, is the fact he led the river, although a LARGE case can be made for checking "as played". It's obvious he didn't want a king to check back or aces even....which, in this case, after hero blasted two streets, is unlikely, so given I'm blocking AK, KQ, AQ, and the very few other suited kings and queens he MIGHT be raising pre-flop, I'm weighing hero toward draws and him seeing me as scared money. But again, how thinking is this player, tanking with KQ on a river shove, even for a moment is either a slow roll , which I don't think was the case, or someone who really can't afford to lose a single buy in and is playing above their level. As...one, I repeat ONE COMBO of hands beat him. Hero played the hand "fine" but he has to have MAJOR alarm bells when that specific player...JUST calls flop and turn and LEADS into your strong line for only a little more then half pot on the river. Basically BEGGING for a call. However, if he was thinking, he would realize how little value you have for him to get called by and realize he probably sees you as scared money and nearly 100% of the time going to bet once again when checked to. Especially given the fact I'm weighing hero to busted draws or aces, given my exact hand, seldomly 33. I mean, when villain didn't raise flop or turn, both spots there were tons of draws on, flop there's so many gutshots, open ended, turn there's all those hands plus flush draws(even with the paired board)...so most thinking players with KQ probably raise the turn as a draw isn't going to think you are raising with the nuts as you literally need 0 protection. But that's getting deep into something that most players aren't going to do or think about. The point is, the river is a fold if you really think through the hand and put yourself in villains shoes. At worst it's a call, I can NEVER see a scenario for a jam. Best case you are hoping to fold out a chop? Is q10 or qj calling you there? That exact player type? You might get dumb luck and somehow he folds 33..or something as he tanked with KQ for God sakes, but I think the Jam is awful. Maybe it's a good low stakes play or if you have a maniacal image, but as played yikes. Villain ACCIDENTALLY played that hand absolutely perfect. And the fact you think he'd be in there with small suited queens which to be fair which ones? As if he's playing q5 suited he's playing q2 and q3 suited which also make boats. Someone taking with the effective nuts on the river isn't playing those hands I'm sorry. Granted bad players, with scared money "can" play rags and then get in bad spots with them and even when they have the effective nuts in spots they are afraid as they are playing with money they can't afford to lose ..so it's POSSIBLE, but not probable. Very interesting hand imo and I think there's a lot of lessons there to take from. Image is one of the biggest, players like him you can take advantage of with lots of raising, begging and overbets even. He's the player type that would possibly fold a worse queen there to a big bet and that you can push around quite a bit. Just the fact he only bet half pot on that river, instead of checking to you should have ALL alarm bells going off...I mean, I don't get it. What in the world do you think he's doing this with? I can GUARANTEE he doesn't try bluffs much or at ALL. It's a bet that says PLEASE call...please? Pretty please? He doesn't even take into account the fact you are weighted toward missed draws and bluffs. Or AA 33 given the line..both of which a check to the agressor makes all the sense.. Question is, if he checks and you bomb, does he even raise? I think if you bet large he just calls, I've seen it before, that one combo of kings stuck in his head. But if you bet under pot I think he jams and you clearly get to fold and save money then. Just think it through, your line and how strong it is and then his river lead. It will allow you to realize how poor a play a jam is there.. Good call in!
@Ohrami
2 жыл бұрын
Leading on a 2 here makes no sense. It also makes no sense to jam for this much given the action with a hand as weak as AQ. You use boats or better for value and bluffs.
@rppoker4768
2 жыл бұрын
Why jam ? Just call
@lukechandra6233
2 жыл бұрын
Villain tanked and seriously considered folding because hero could have had KK. You can't be too careful
@EfficientRVer
2 жыл бұрын
He did that because hero raising the river without the nuts, would be pretty bad. He had to decide whether hero was that bad.
@pinitsiser4285
2 жыл бұрын
Playing 500bb to begin with means there will be plenty of nasty spots. Wurh a straddle UTG is actually also the CO. But still, don't think he would defend with no position w Q5.so shoving is a big mistake.
@benjaminlebria
2 жыл бұрын
They are 250bb deep. Not 500
@pinitsiser4285
2 жыл бұрын
@@benjaminlebria in this specific hand with the strudle but i was reffering to the game in general. Even 250bb is a deep stack to cause some headaces and lots of room for mistakes
@jamesguest1493
2 жыл бұрын
Call he won't call raise he would have beat
@patmartin6271
2 жыл бұрын
Ouf that jam doesn’t make much sense at all
@Keil253
2 жыл бұрын
good one
@adamseidel9780
2 жыл бұрын
Yet another call that falls into the “your read isn’t that great, don’t deviate like a nut” series.
@Gos1234567
2 жыл бұрын
A common theme on this channel and as Bart says if they guy would call any Qxs pre it doesnt mean he will call a raise on the river on that scary board
@adamseidel9780
2 жыл бұрын
@@Gos1234567 seriously, you wanna make the guy a little wild, go ahead and give him ALL the QT and QJ off combos. Still a call.
@piocet
2 жыл бұрын
Does he sound like Norm Macdonald?
@threesweet3390
2 жыл бұрын
Why you smiling so big when he's telling you stack sizes?
@z17seattle
2 жыл бұрын
His stack size was actually 6969, bart told him let's round it down for the video, then edited it out..unless you have a better guess 🤷♂️
@kkarpuzi
2 жыл бұрын
Does V ever have AK?
@hogi99
2 жыл бұрын
I would think of course he does, but I still think it's a call and not a shove at the end because I don't think he calls a shove with AK.
@cryptobull4130
2 жыл бұрын
No decision I'm going for broke
@fethryduck
2 жыл бұрын
If he shove his opponent can fold QJs Q10s if he is a good player. All in makes no sense
@ajshap4546
2 жыл бұрын
That’s not a good shove. Very few combos or worse calling a shove there
@fevolenko3995
2 жыл бұрын
I think that based on "study" and solvers and GTO etc etc vs player as described shove is correct. But important question is "How do I run?" Genuinely you know if you're a rungood guy that always gets paid off or a run bad guy who always has 2nd nuts when the guy playing like Helen Keller that's sprayed his money to every other seat but yours has the nuts.. Based on me being the latter, I call. If im Wolfgang or Rampage or Gal or Rick Salomon or Michael High Roller Crusher I shove 🤑
@fevolenko3995
2 жыл бұрын
@@skyeangelofdeath7363 i wasn't throwing shade, I was just listing players that run well. But as you asked Rampage is awful 100%. Wolfgang runs like God pretty often but seems decent. Gal (talking cash) is a calling station. He calls 3 and 4 bets with 34os etc and on KQ3 calls another large bet. Is that good play? I'd say no. But he hits a 3 on turn vs AK or KQ at a much higher rate than most, and as he wins ppl say wow Gal is sick, Gal is great etc. I've said many times that basically pros are ppl who win with AA 80% plus. Pros are ppl that 3bet AQ and AJ and win often with them. Losing players play exactly the same but lose often. Pros win 95% of times they flop bottom set. Some of us lose 3/3 times flopping top set in 1 session. Like I said the "true %" are derived from every single action. It's logical to accept that there's an imperfect bell curve where let's say 60% of ppl win 80% of the time with AA, and there's probably at least 1 guy who wins 100% of the time with AA. That also means in the 40% of people not winning 80% of the time there's guys winning only 30% or 40 or 50% with AA. There's probably a guy out there that has lost 100% with AA.... Pros are ppl that can play well mostly AND run good. Rick Saloman fits that. Michael what's his name who won everything last year got in in bad and or dominated multiple multiple times on final tables I saw. I can only assume he did so often earlier as well. Am I saying he's bad? No. He's a decent gambler... maybe I'll make that distinction. Between good player and winning gambler. Everyone says don't be results oriented, but that's a crock of shit. When Adamo (just remembered his name) overshoves 3x pot with A8 into opponent with AA or AK but wins when he shouldve been out 9th, then does so 2 or 3 more times, wins every time he's dominated, he's exhalted as a beast, but if Matusow is the guy going out in 9th 5 times with AA he's a fish.. Anyone can play broadways, suited connectors and pairs super agro. The big winners like Adamo are big winners because they held more often when ahead and got there more often when behind. Some ppl have that for life. Some for years. Some for a year. Some never etc.. There's a simple test to know if you generally run good or not. If you get AA and are excited, you usually have won with it, at least near 80% or over, as expected. If you get it and are immediately thinking you might lose your stack, play it properly at all times, but are genuinely surprised when you win with it, you probably run bad more often than most. Obviously there's many people that over and underestimate their win loss %, but as with all things there's also ppl who are accurate and aware of the true reality..
@fevolenko3995
2 жыл бұрын
@@skyeangelofdeath7363 and I was saying the hero DID say villain was an idiot who had almost everything in his range ie QJ - Q2 suited etc Hero may have invented a new term that I'll coin for him.. The Super Thin Value Bomb 😇😂
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