Keep up the quality content, boss! Much love from Baku, Azerbaijan 🇦🇿
@WSendam
11 ай бұрын
Love your channel ❤
@periferex
11 ай бұрын
I love your channel keep up the good work
@oussamabekk1108
11 ай бұрын
Oh look hou's Back , ma Boy Eh LOVE YOUR VIDEOS ❤❤❤ Keep up the work my Friend
@QueenAleenaFan
11 ай бұрын
Thanks for making vids. I don't always agree with you, but you express your points well. And I know with these being hour long sometimes more feckers with the art and the editing you put a lot more than the hour you get on screen in.
@diegeticfridge9167
11 ай бұрын
I love how they “humanize” the npcs by making sure that literally 100% of them shoot on sight, and try to stab you in the back if you spare them……. Nice
@fireboythestar3455
11 ай бұрын
Slavers and Nazis in the Metro games were more rational than those guys.
@leviticusprime4904
9 ай бұрын
@@fireboythestar3455bandits trying to fight an endgame player are more rational
@FDALl-ms5kg
8 ай бұрын
@@fireboythestar3455Honestly yeah those games do the concept way better, at the expense of a terrible karma system tho (except maybe for exodus
@fireboythestar3455
8 ай бұрын
@@FDALl-ms5kg The karma system isn't THAT bad. It makes you pay attention to the world around you. I doubt everyone found the soviet hostages or the guy smoking weed on their first playthrough.
@elfireii328
3 ай бұрын
Metal Gear 5 did it better with having some enemies stay still while others slowly reach for their weapon. Would have been cool to see that kind of nuance in a game thats supposed to humanize enemies.
@konrad6688
11 ай бұрын
My favorite part of TLOU2 was when Abby and Ellie were fighting and when Ellie almost drowns Abby she says to herself, “oh my god, this truly is The Last of Us two,” and let’s her go. Such a beautiful ending.
@loaflad
11 ай бұрын
Lol
@PepperKatLancer
11 ай бұрын
belive it or not no one can do that. Just not the way our brains work . Fight or flight has done kicked in and its her or you and theres just somehting in us that wants to live more than the other. That is the nature of Man (Human).
@spicydong317
11 ай бұрын
It was Joel's ghost playing guitar and telling her telepathically "I know you killed many people to get here, but there WILL be The Last of Us Part Three, and she NEEDS to learn about forgiveness there"
@konrad6688
11 ай бұрын
@@spicydong317 he was so real for that
@Lessembarrassingman
11 ай бұрын
I know what you mean but you got the quote slightly off. Ellie says “you can’t kill me! I’m gonna be the last of us!” And Abby says “That may be, but I will be the last of us too!” And then lev says “don’t split into factions! I feel like I’m gonna be left behind!” And then they gather round the television and turn on hbo max
@LtPulsar
11 ай бұрын
They really needed to double down on the "enemies are real people" aspect. Have them actually surrender, or just give up when you kill another person, have wounded states where people can be down and not die. Re-create the messiness of real gunfights, with tense standoffs and half-fought battles. It would be a radical departure from traditional shooter mechanics, resolving fights without violence or necessarily killing everyone. But it does really seem like NaughtyDog were after a radical departure from the traditional shooter narrative, so a departure from gameplay seems equally apt.
@gayerthanyou42
11 ай бұрын
Right? The game reminds you that the people you're fighting against are just as human as you are, over and over and over. While at the same time giving you no other way to progress the world or interact with enemies without violence. It's chastising the player for doing what the game it's asking you to do. What am I supossed to do, turn the game off? the do gameplay and the narrative end up clashing completly.
@gothpotato
11 ай бұрын
Metal gear does sometimes similar to what you just described. You don’t have to kill solders in those games , it’s all your choice
@hombreg1
11 ай бұрын
@@gothpotato thing is, metal gear solid, despite being bombastic and dumb at times, is also free of pretentiousness
@ApexGale
11 ай бұрын
And they even could have reflected this in the ending. If Ellie's kill counter is low: she chooses to spare Abby. She gets that last flashback with Joel, she keeps her fingers. Dina is still home when she returns, Ellie can still play the guitar and still has that memory of Joel with her wherever she goes. She learns to cherish them and move on. But if Ellie's kill counter is high? She kills Abby but loses her fingers, returns to find Dina gone, can no longer play the guitar. Make choices actually change outcomes!
@X-SPONGED
11 ай бұрын
Technically, this is somewhat implemented in the game. If you greatly injure the last enemy in a fight area. They will cower in fear and beg for their life or urge you to kill them already. In my playthrough, I didn't really care much for the story since I personally think this is a load of bull. This is not my Ellie or Tommy, I don't care about Dina or Jesse or Isaac or Lev or Abby. But I cannot deny that the gameplay is fun. So everytime I got into this situation, I just slowly walk up to the surrendering enemy with my melee in hand and bash his brains to bits or hack and slash her with my machete. Your companion will always comment on the execution with remarks like "Jesus, Ellie..." or something like that. Again, I didn't care about the story so I never thought much of it. Just felt real badass doing it.
@juanvelasquez1930
11 ай бұрын
The argument I hate the most to defend the game trying to make you feel guilty for decisions you can't stray away from with "You can always stop playing." This shit was 60 dollars, ain't no way Im gonna stop.
@yersiniapestis5237
11 ай бұрын
Exactly that's why movies make me so angry. Like why are they trying to make me feel sad about that old guy from shawshanks redemption or whatever when I'm not even able to stop that guy from deciding to hang himself.
@sxftfeathers
11 ай бұрын
where the fuck did you buy it from if it was 60 dollars dawg?? i bought it for 20
@simonediliberto4314
11 ай бұрын
@@sxftfeathers yeah but did you buy it when it came out or recently? No way in hell it’s the former lol
@zachhaas1075
11 ай бұрын
@@yersiniapestis5237 ok thats top tier bait.
@Blarglesnarfe
11 ай бұрын
Bruh what@@yersiniapestis5237
@floofzykitty5072
11 ай бұрын
Sparing an NPC only for them to unfailingly, every single time, try to stab you in the back really teaches how if you show mercy to anyone it will always just come back to bite you. What a poignant and touching message.
@teeveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
11 ай бұрын
I agree. Truly this is the game ever. 1000000000000000/10.
@AlpacaEmperor
11 ай бұрын
Such deep mechanics that reflect the story. Bravo, Cuckmann!
@Hemostat
11 ай бұрын
"you like the sight of your own blood?!" - spared raiders last words
@frogglen6350
10 ай бұрын
Not a message. More like generic A.i. Honestly red drad redemption did it better, because npcs who give up in that game will try to escape.
@Warcrafter4
10 ай бұрын
This is literally what creates the famous DnD player stereotype "The MurderHobo". Devs/DMs keep punishing the players for not killing everything on sight. Then have the gall to complain or try to shame players, when players learn to kill everything on sight.
@darwinaguilero3175
11 ай бұрын
I am very glad you didn’t retire from making videos, not even gonna lie. Your videos are incredibly unique and very eye catching. Keep up the great work.
@connorambrosino1741
11 ай бұрын
He still could, depending on revenue from future videos. Gaining from the views on this video within the first 10 hours, it doesn't look good for his channel. It makes me sad because I love his videos and content, but if it doesn't make him money, then he just can't.
@goldenhorse4823
11 ай бұрын
@@connorambrosino1741 Honestly I think people are just not big on Last of Us right now. It is sad this great channel may die soon but maybe it is better than him continuing doing something increasingly less profitable with increasingly less hope.
@hirocheeto7795
11 ай бұрын
He did mention that this video was already in the works and would be released. The question was whether he would retire *after* he made this video, which we have yet to see.
@seg162
11 ай бұрын
@@connorambrosino1741 At the very least, it's gotten much more traction in its first ten hours than his last Last of Us video has gotten in its entire lifespan to present. I seriously think that video underperformed on account of people at large being primed to dislike the Last of Us show, and not being interested in someone doing something that wasn't at least mostly shitting on it.
@crazyinsane500
11 ай бұрын
I think he did. All his info on The Last of Us 2 seems to be AI generated as literally nothing new was said. It seems like he had ChatGPT or something write the script, then doctored it up and inserted the Papers Please and Shadow of the Colossus parts in after the fact. You can tell because those two parts are starkly different to the Last of Us 2 bits.
@RomanQrr
11 ай бұрын
The reason Undertale can give you an experience the Last Of Us 2 wanted to give you, is because killing monsters isn't all that fun or difficult. You press A, then you press A with the sorta right timing, then you do the bullet hell section, then you repeat it all over again until your enemy is dead. It's bare bones, Final Fantasy 1 has more depth that that. But if you give pacifism a chance you find that there is a lot of things you can do, each one unique to the person you are engaging with. Each one giving you a glimpse into who that person is. A dapper ghost dork with social anxiety, a shy siren who just wants someone to jam with, a muscle obsessed horse-person, a cockroach who isn't comfortable with crowds, an ice drake trying to follow his comedian father's footsteps but in his own way, a joy-kill Jerry, a reindeer who was bullied by people covering him with Christmas decorations, a dog marriage... I can go on. And a lot of times if you do engage with them as people, as characters worthy of the right to live and to be happy, you will find changes in the world itself. Like a bunch of Froggits popping up on the world map willing to engage in civil conversation and tell you tips and hints about the world you found yourself in. Like Undyne willing to hang if you are not a murderer. Like Sans appearing where he seeming has no place of appearing and dropping revelations you were not prepared for. And then you meet Asgore. I aint saying no more.
@MintJammer
11 ай бұрын
the thing is i feel Undertale has the narrative polar opposite problem. if you're a person who engages things once you feel the game deserves it, not in its initiative, it becomes TOO convenient to be a good person. DEATH isnt permanent like a rougelike or a mentally scarring despair and draining repetition like it is to say, (true mc of Higarashi) or Re: Zero's Subaru. The fights are easy, outside ex humans themselves, no one has true malice to them, and the only truly horrifying beasts are from nonconsensual experiments than their very nature. even in the normal final boss, there's obvious handouts of mercy ike the health bar having dynamic damage. it lives in a fairy land where a single child with no wit, skill, or initiative can topple the world in revolution or terror. A slave to binary mechanics and the only binary consequences have a true point. Determination is both its strongest point and deepest flaw, as no one has it but you and Asgore. And Toby keeping the Ruins endings once he reduced the game's scale is its 2nd biggest problem. No, Toriel and Flowie are full of shit. Only the genocide bosses have the ability to truly terrorize you, you're just implied to be in danger otherwise. And that's merely in consequence of your actions. Personally Deltarune improves on that immensely just by Susie alone.
@ohBoyahandle
11 ай бұрын
@@MintJammercuz it's a game about hope :[ sometimes it's fine to have an unrealistic plot like that
@socksinsoda9517
11 ай бұрын
@@MintJammerAs a fan of Undertale, I can totally see what you mean. Even the game itself points out how real life is different, and how kindness can't always solve everything. What's interesting is that in Deltarune, the big boss battle we get at the end of the very first chapter is malicious and can't be reasoned with. Since Deltarune is a follow up to Undertale, I like to think this was intentional, like a sort of subversion to Undertale, if that makes sense.
@deepseametro
11 ай бұрын
@SenpaiSamaKun It's interesting to me you just explained the entire narrative point of undertale, but declared its biggest problem? The entire point the game mates is exactly that: you aren't in any danger. It's a game about bigotry and prejudice, it's a game about trauma, it's a game about learning how to be kind to people even when the world has not been kind to you, and what that does. Yes you're not a danger. The people of the underground don't want to kill humans: they've been forced into that position. That's why nobody actually tries to hurt you, and why asgore trembles. And that's why you have such ease in hurting people when you decide to go genocide route. Monsters are weak. That's the point. And the only reason anyone would hurt them is because they're full of fear or full of malice. They aren't really trying to hurt you in a normal route, they're trying to defend themselves, or simply can't help that however they function accidentally causes you damage. That's why it's so easy to get back up. The point the game is trying to teach you is that it's always worth to get back up and approach people with kindness, even if they hurt you on accident.
@watchmp100
11 ай бұрын
The argument that genocide run isn't fun because of its barebones fight mechanics is not really a good leg to stand on, a better answer to this would be because of the grind to find and kill all the monsters.
@davidbraccini4770
11 ай бұрын
43:29 “Ellie’s story isn’t about a slow revaluation of her bad actions… It is like the Once-ler suddenly realizing that cutting down the last tree is bad” This phrase describes in a perfect way The Last of Us part II’s biggest problem.
@bladechild2449
10 ай бұрын
It's also a thoroughly one-dimensional take on what Ellie's story is about.
@danieldimov8625
10 ай бұрын
@@bladechild2449And it's funny because it absolutely works to explain the one dimensional message this game is trying to convey.
@manuelrose2996
10 ай бұрын
@@bladechild2449Someone didn't watch the video.
@uhohmykokoro1616
9 ай бұрын
@@danieldimov8625gagged them 🤭🤭
@stevenburrows240
7 ай бұрын
so, y’all all completely missed all of the context. Congrats! Yeah, Ellie killed plenty of WLF and Serphites but those were self defense. It was literally kill or be killed. They shot Ellie and co on sight without regard to who she might be. But I’m gonna guess you missed how messed up she was after she tortured Nora to death? I’m also gonna guess you missed how traumatic it was to kill Mel and Owen? Y’know because if you were paying attention you would’ve see she didn’t want to and was devastated that she had to. Yes, they were self defense kills as well, but unlike the others these more personal ones were hitting too close to home.. She tried to be Joel and failed miserably she wasn’t prepared for what she was getting herself into. By the time she leaves the Farm, she’s looking for closure for her grieving and PTSD. She just thought killing Abby was gonna bring that to her. She found her inner peace which is all she wanted. But hey, like I said congrats on missing all of this. Hardly surprising tbh
@TheMightyNovac
11 ай бұрын
I'm sorry but I have to point out the absurdity of censoring out the 'fuck' in the game's subtitles when the rest of the screen is Ellie stabbing somebody in the neck--that's just funny.
@whelperw
11 ай бұрын
Saying "fuck" is absolutely unacceptable, but cutting people's throats is just mundane thing. Sometimes, I think, censorship was made by brits.
@klg9549
11 ай бұрын
@@whelperw I blame Hollywood.
@plasticflower
11 ай бұрын
@@whelperw Yes, also dare not to show a nipple! Children would be traumatized!
@POP-nm1ix
11 ай бұрын
That's KZitem for you.
@blacksnapper7684
9 ай бұрын
Also you can’t say anything remotely right leaning or can be associated with the right….but the other side is perfectly fine
@Doperwtje81
11 ай бұрын
It's hard to feel remorse if there's no motivation for me to feel that way in game. When the gameplay emphasize me to explore areas for items, and that means murdering the npc's to make it easier, I stop seeing enemies as humans and more like obstacles for me to blast or stab in funny ways. Same with dogs, I love animals and would never want to harm one, yet I will throw Molotov cocktails at TLOU2's dogs because I found it easier to take out them and their handler, then sneak around and get caught forcing me in a gunfight I didn't want.
@gabethyrubenstein7984
11 ай бұрын
It’s almost as if it’s an allegory for capitalism
@archbishopofthecrusades9579
11 ай бұрын
Yeah, it's a story about right and wrong and consequences of you actions and choices, yet there is no choice in gameplay beyond surface level. You can't sneak past enemies or spare surrendering enemies. A masterpiece game should be able to incorporate it's gameplay and story, this one doesn't, and besides that, with all its poorly written arcs, I can't take anyone seriously who suggests it is a masterpiece at all. It's fine if someone enjoys it, I can even understand it, but blind consumerism go paint it as anything but a decent game with a flawed, but enjoyable for some, story. RDR2, Metro, and Dishonored all have similar themes, either about revenge or how pain, anger, and circumstance can turn good people into monsters. You can't be a pacifist like dishonored, you can't limit your kills and get a good ending like Metro, and there's no morality system or visible changes when you do good or bad like RDR2. They could've made cutscenes be based on your actions, Ellies friends act and treat them differently, enemies, gameplay and cutscene, are more terrified of Ellie as the game goes on. There would be seperate cutscenes for your level of morality, we could have scenes like the one where Ellie kills Mel at lower levels of morality and at higher levels you're able to convince already tired of Abby's bullshit Mel and get what's his face to stop simping for Abby and be a man that has a child coming. The bad ending would have Ellie kill both Abby and lev, whilst the good ending gives you a choice to either leave or kill just her and take lev away, recreating the scene she had with Joel in which she lies to Lev about what happened. "I came to kill her, but she was already dead. I couldn't leave you there, though." Sadly, the best they could muster was having enemies yell out their buddies name, as of we're stupid enough mot to realize if this were an actual situation of course these people would have friends and family, everyone does. That, or have Ellie kill the dogs Abby pets. Even if they couldn't or purposefully didn't want to have the above mechanics, they could've done much better at portraying the enemy side. Not once did I feel like any sort of snyoahty or understanding with them, they weren't portrayed like they were just another survivor. They weren't good people.
@Mypenisissmallbut
11 ай бұрын
It’s a story about right and wrong written by a person who thinks he’s always right. Neil Uckmann really needs Bruce Straley there babysitting his ideas.
@Touriquette
11 ай бұрын
@@gabethyrubenstein7984 Allegory for capitalism my ass. Bet you'd be the type to call a bear destroying a bee hive 'CaPiTaLiSm' too. If it is in some way an allegory for capitalism it's a toddler's naive first impression of it.
@jackhanson3856
11 ай бұрын
@@gabethyrubenstein7984Lol Imagine saying shit like this unironically.
@mullerpotgieter
11 ай бұрын
The game: *Forces you to kill the dog to progress* Also the game: "Omg! You killed the dog. You monster!"
@DevinEDB
11 ай бұрын
It's even more egregious when you remember that the dev's promised you wouldn't be forced to kill dogs.
@matin793
11 ай бұрын
Except alice you can avoid all enemies and encounters btw
@billlee3851
11 ай бұрын
@@matin793except it's hard to do, and once the dog spots you or pounces on you, you have no option but to kill
@neondouble_
11 ай бұрын
Yeah I've played this game a lot and you can pretty easily avoid killing dogs. It's REALLY easy.
@Hemostat
11 ай бұрын
I cant believe Ellie called in that white phosphorus airstrike on the dog
@Jayfett123
11 ай бұрын
I feel like Hotline miami 1 & 2 did the whole 'think about your violent actions, you're killing people, and you're becoming desensitized to violence' better than the last of us part 2
@griggorpi8751
11 ай бұрын
I completely agree. And it's messages are actually deeper than those of tlou2. Not only on the lore level, but also on a meta level. And in HM2 revenge literally leads to WW3, unlike in tlou2, where it leads to "oh no, fingies gone, guitar not play"
@spaghetto9836
11 ай бұрын
That, and Undertale with its Pacifist vs. Genocidal run.
@Jayfett123
11 ай бұрын
@spaghetto9836 absolutely, undertale is also great at this
@user-uo8ny1kj4c
10 ай бұрын
@@Jayfett123postal 1 did it great too. And it was made in 98!
@leviticusprime4904
9 ай бұрын
@@user-uo8ny1kj4cpostal 1 needs a remastered or remake
@TheMightyNovac
11 ай бұрын
Part II has the theme of choosing to stop, in a game that refuses to give you the option to stop. It could've gone in one of two directions: it could've given the player actual choice in stopping their violent actions (at some kind of cost) to reinforce those themes--like Snake Eater and it's 'The Sorrow' boss fight, or it could've abandoned choice entirely. NieR is an example of where Naughty Dog could've taken those themes from the first game without inventing a whole new narrative structure to allow for more choice and narrative mobility. 'No one stops' is a significant line in NieR, because (coming at the end of the game's first ending), it reinforces why you have no choice--people lack understanding, context, and even the capability to change their actions. Should the protagonist of NieR really stop, and let his family die, all for some grander morality? Could he stop, even if he knew the consequences of his actions? That story ends up resolving itself without giving the player choice in their actions of killing. Instead it humanizes and justifies killing as an expression of love--an irrational but deeply human action, and maybe even something admirable on an individual level. The story of Part II, meanwhile, ends with Ellie figuring out she made a mistake frustratingly late, that was clear to everybody but her. She's just dumb, and whilst you can justify that stupidity via her motivations, it doesn't make it interesting--it just makes it frustrating when we, the player, already know the answer is just 'stop murdering people who aren't trying to kill you!' Violence is a complex topic, but the violence present in Part II isn't complex, and even an idiot would know 'the right thing to do' as soon as the game started. So there's no impact to seeing Ellie finally stop being a jackass, because we figured that out for ourselves 20 hours ago.
@Birthday888
11 ай бұрын
It's also hilariously incompetent in actually delivering that lesson in the story itself. Like, seriously, Ellie has no idea why Abby killed Joel. As far as I can remember, she doesn't even realize Abby is a former Firefly. Ellie literally goes through several months journey through dangerous territory infested with Infected and Bandits, abandoning the people who are functionally her wife and child because of how obsessed she is with her revenge, only to do an abrupt 180 because she finds Abby near death. It's GoT Season 8 levels of bad writing. Daenerys is now instantly crazy because the plot needs her to. Ellie is now suddenly empathetic towards Abby's suffering because the plot needs her to. The message is also hilarious opposed to the gameplay. The story is all about Ellie learning "stop murdering people who aren't trying to kill you" while the gameplay is all about Ellie defending herself against people trying to kill her. The biggest example of a game trying to have it's cake and eat it too.
@TheMightyNovac
11 ай бұрын
@@Birthday888 You know what could've made this moment work? Have Ellie and Abby team up. Sure, Ellie's overall motivations are still stupid, but imagine that instead of another 10 hours of blind, nonsensical, repetitive revenge plot, we got a chunk of the game where these two characters who hate each other (and still do) are forced through circumstance to rely on each other. Imagine the tension as the two are compelled by violence to kill one-another, but recognize that they're sacrificing too much by taking that opportunity in the moment. Have Ellie try to, but ultimately resist killing Abby (just like the ending of the game) because she recognizes that doing so would only be self-destructive. I also think a lot is lost by not highlighting Ellie's inability to grieve. Like, it's an interesting idea to have Ellie incapable of healthily expressing her grief, and how that then compels her to commit violence as 'the only solution'. Then you could tie those two ideas together and have her, ironically, finally convey her grief through her words to Abby at the end of the game. By being responsible for her grief, they could feel a conflicted kind of connection as the two only characters who understand what one-another are going through--and by proxy what Joel was going through in The Last of Us. You know, I dunno... something interesting could happen, instead of a very generic and trite 'revenge is bad, y'all' ending. Ellie could learn something dynamic and interesting, and the 'feel good' ending could be her channeling her irrational need for revenge into an irrational friendship with the person responsible for her grief, instead of just realizing "maybe murdering the people who wrong me without just cause is... bad?" Just a thought.
@Birthday888
11 ай бұрын
@@TheMightyNovac Or heck. Just keep the specific identity of Joel's killer a secret. Ellie maybe catches sight of the accomplices and figures out they're from Washington, but she doesn't specifically know Abby's face or her name. Then you can have a section where Ellie teams up and even befriends Abby before finding out the truth. You could center the entire game around that honestly. Get rid of Dina, Jesse, Tommy and all the rest of the filler, and focus on the dynamics of their relationship, how it changes once Ellie finds out the truth, and the proceeding conflict. You also don't have Abby sparing Ellie for absolutely no reason like a moron.
@Agent_Cobalt
11 ай бұрын
@@TheMightyNovacWell I think it’s obvious that Abby killing Joel at the start was a horrible decision. It just puts everyone in a sour mood and gives Abby the worst introduction. They don’t do nearly enough to rehabilitate her image to the player Abbys goal should never have been Joel. It should been something else that caused her to cross paths with Joel, maybe after spending time with Ellie. It should happen towards the end so we actually give a shit about Abby
@TheMightyNovac
11 ай бұрын
@@Agent_Cobalt You have it backwards. Abby killing Joel at the start is good bite, you only recommend removing it because the plot as it exists does nothing good with it.
@stevenguitink5947
11 ай бұрын
Personally after I read about all the shit Naughty Dog put the devs through to get this game out the door, at this stage I have more empathy for them than some coded characters who cry out in despair on death.
@aleksandrsiv6099
11 ай бұрын
Really? What happen?
@stevenguitink5947
11 ай бұрын
@@aleksandrsiv6099 To my knowledge, in order to get the game out the door, Naughty Dog went under immense crunch time, putting their workers through massive stress to the point of hospitalization. It got so bad that several animation studios around Seattle refused to work with them ever again. Urick referenced this in his vid.
@aleksandrsiv6099
11 ай бұрын
@@stevenguitink5947, WOW, that messed up. I hope at least they are fine now.
@devildolphin2102
11 ай бұрын
@@aleksandrsiv6099 Also Neil Drunkman Forced out Amy Hennig the Woman who created Uncharted and was a Reason Naughty Dog was so good because she wouldn’t play ball with their new Game Formula
@randomguy6679
11 ай бұрын
@@devildolphin2102Amy didn’t write the first Last of Us…
@F_E_U
11 ай бұрын
glad to see you're shifting to what i can only assume is easier content to make - i mean by this not making infinite illustrations, even though they are qualitative, I think we all prefer to see you streamlining your production so that you can talk about things you love with as little a hindrance on your physical and mental health as possible :)
@sefflikejeff1917
11 ай бұрын
I honesly enjoy this approach more, i feel like i can look away from the screen for a second and not miss a bunch of cool visuals
@F_E_U
11 ай бұрын
@@sefflikejeff1917 also true x)
@elinquisidorperseverante6835
11 ай бұрын
@@F_E_U The only thing I dislike about this format is how much it has me questioning my heterosexuality 😔
@_-Lx-_
11 ай бұрын
@@elinquisidorperseverante6835 That'll grow on you, trust me. 😅
@elinquisidorperseverante6835
11 ай бұрын
@@_-Lx-_ Is this a threat or a promise.
@biostar4
11 ай бұрын
To be honest, not reflecting on Tess was kind of on purpose. Joel didn't want to talk about her. He just wanted to move on. Everytime Bill mentions her, Joel doesn't even tell him what's happened, he moves on in the conversation, or trying to divert the topic in the conversation. He didn't reflect on her, because he didn't want to. An obvious character trait, considering how broken Joel is
@murciadoxial8056
11 ай бұрын
the game not reflecting on tess's death is, in a very subtle way, the game reflecting on tess's death
@biostar4
11 ай бұрын
@@murciadoxial8056 Exactly
@Takejiro24
11 ай бұрын
To drive the point home, Ellie wanted to talk about Henry's and Sam's deaths but Joel immediately shut her down, having told her "Things happen. And we just move on." He got even more stern about it when she tried to say "But-" about it. She also brought up Tess at the very end of the game when she was telling Joel about all her loved ones who passed. Notably, Joel did not try to shut the conversation down but let her talk and offered the best advice he could.
@sonofkabisch
8 ай бұрын
In The Last of Us Remastered, I came.
@murciadoxial8056
8 ай бұрын
@@sonofkabisch ... not in or near ellie i hope
@nont18411
11 ай бұрын
Ellie: killed thousands of random goons who had nothing to do with Joel’s murder without a second thought Also Ellie: Spared the one who actually killed Joel because “revenge bad”
@TheFreakDownStreet
11 ай бұрын
Welcome to THE revenge story cliche. Revenge is bad, but the lives of mooks are always meaningless.
@well1012
11 ай бұрын
Such an illiterate comment. Very clear there’s no foresight at all, and some weird kink sadism attached to your person which Naughty Dog had intention of satisfying.
@ohBoyahandle
11 ай бұрын
@@well1012eh??? what are you even trying to say?
@griggorpi8751
11 ай бұрын
@@well1012>Crying wojak in mask.png
@deringjosuegarcia1531
11 ай бұрын
@@well1012Bait used to be believable
@Spoonsk
11 ай бұрын
I feel like Part of the reason the game fails to get us to feel for the npcs is because despite thier subtle characterizations they all feel the same. They are all competent in combat, and will murder you given the chance. What if the game threw in some enemy npcs that weren't there for the challenge, but to capture this feeling. For example: - people who's hands are shaking, and who don't actually shoot thier guns. - people who will drop combat entirely to mourn for or try to recitate an injured teammate - people who hide and cower in a corner. To offset this from a difficulty perspective, they could either include more npcs or even better, include some npcs that are extremely competent. This would help give the impression that the people you are killing aren't all soldiers, but they are people with various levels of training on a patrol.
@heshamshrifa5839
11 ай бұрын
I have to say your idea is genius and would've elevated the game massively had it been implemented. It would've reinforced the intended themes so much more and would have been a huge novelty in game design. I hope one day someone does this in a game and does it well.
@Touriquette
11 ай бұрын
Reminds me of a certain quote about soldiers I read once, I'll see if I can find it. "Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." From the Cynic Epistles
@Prototype-357
11 ай бұрын
Your idea is great. For how much they were pushing the "enemies are people too" themes I felt the common enemies were really disconnected from that theme, it's like the devs only bothered to connect the main story NPCs to that theme but with the cannon fodder enemies they didn't even try. I didn't come away from the story believing every enemy I killed was a person with hopes and dreams, I only felt that away about the ones that actually mattered to Ellie's and Abby's story, and that's the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you want with a theme like this, you don't want players believing only the people that revolve around Ellie and Abby are actual characters and only their deaths have any emotional reaction.
@FreeTheRats_
11 ай бұрын
Yeah kinda like that one npc in Plague Tale. You find em trapped, they can do nothing to you and they won't help you, they're just about to die. You can help them and not kill them while knowing they would kill you if they had the chance, or just kill someone that had no other option. There is no cliché "bad" option. And that leaves you thinking about your decision even if it doesn't even matter.
@mlag8858
10 ай бұрын
or they could've had them not try to kill you on sight. maybe try to question you or have you surrender? screaming names does not make them any more real than a goomba
@SorinPetre-ir1wf
11 ай бұрын
One of the things that irk me about Joel's death is that it was so,weird,in a way? He gets his comeuppance,but for the wrong reasons. He doesn't pay the price for depriving the world of a cure for the cordyceps fungus. He is killed because he killed...one guy. That's it. If Joel did everything else the same,killing all those fireflies,Marlene,and took Ellie away but instead chose to just shoot Abby's dad in the foot instead of outright killed him,he would have been alive. He gets killed because out of the countless random NPC's he killed,one of them happened to have a daughter who'd be crazy enough to track him over hundreds of miles on very limited information based on the location of HIS BROTHER,not even Joel himself. If instead he died being killed by infected or the infection itself,it would really feel like karma finally caught up to him. Now that I think about it,fucking hell was Jerry so goddamn stupid. That man saw a crazed lunatic covered in blood,with 8 guns and a flamethrower strapped to his backpack burst into his operating room,and his first move was to THREATEN that guy? Talk about a Darwin Award.
@gwgh
11 ай бұрын
Spoilers for Spider-Man: Across the Spiderverse Across the Spiderverse did this better with Spot in the sense that he’s only in 1 scene of Into the Spiderverse but his character grows into such a monster that he becomes the main villain in the sequel!
@starmaker75
11 ай бұрын
Yeah like Joel death would be something I would be fine with(I mean I did predict that as soon as they announce part 2) however it the way he died.
@archbishopofthecrusades9579
11 ай бұрын
@@starmaker75they did his death for shock value, but everyone knew he was gonna die just from how they marketed the game, would've been more shocking for him to live, granted they did something similar already with the last ybcharted game.
@darthskele
11 ай бұрын
@@archbishopofthecrusades9579"but everyone knew he was gonna die based on how they marketed the game" Uh, no? The marketing had you believe that Joel was gonna play a major role as a support character to Ellie. They had a friendship bracelet that Ellie was wearing be zoomed in on by the camera after we saw her and Dina making out at a campfire, making it seem like Ellie was gonna seek revenge for Dina all along. They had a trailer where Joel says to Ellie, "You think I'd let you do this on your own?" But it gets replaced in the game with Jesse, and he says the exact same line word for word. The way the game was marketed was that Joel was gonna play an active role, not get stuffed into the fridge like he did
@koboldcatgirl
11 ай бұрын
In defense of this: I actually think that it works as a karmic death. Sure, it comes down to one murder, and Joel could have spared that guy and prevented this whole story... but he couldn't have. Because the kind of man that killed all those other people, the kind of man whose only tool for problem-solving had become violence, could never live a long life. Joel wasn't the kind of guy who would shoot the foot. If it wasn't That One Guy, it would be someone else. It's not about the zombies, it's about the killing. In the end, Joel's death isn't perfectly just and clean--it's just another senseless death from some rando whose life didn't matter until it did. And a senseless death by another human's hands is exactly what Joel earned.
@TommyAck102
11 ай бұрын
As Nakey Jakey once said, "In The Last of Us 1, I became Joel. In The Last of Us Left Behind, I became Ellie. In The Last of Us pt. 2, I became disappointed."
@TommyAck102
11 ай бұрын
Also sneakily changing the Pikmin in the background, nice :P
@Isa-fq9kk
11 ай бұрын
I love this quote, hit me so hard the first time I watched his video
@gabethyrubenstein7984
11 ай бұрын
Spoiler: the last of us is a story about achieving absolutely nothing. No matter what, everything goes wrong. Joel was supposed to deliver Ellie all the way across the country for a vaccine, just to be told that it would mean losing her forever. He destroys everything that the fireflies fought for, and any chance of a vaccine, in order to save who he loved. This is completely against the original objective at the start of the game; to just deliver Ellie and be done with it. The Fireflies didn’t account that Joel would care about Ellie. In Left Behind, Ellie gets all of that medical supplies to save Joel, just for him to get killed by Abby a few years later. In Part 2, when Ellie gets to the aquarium with the intent of killing Abby, she instead kills Mel and Owen, probably two people who had the least to do with Joel’s death. And Abby fights the Rat King to get medical supplies for Yara, only for her to get killed five minutes later. And then Ellie travels to Santa Barbara with the intention of killing Abby, but like Joel, ultimately failing to do so. Tldr: This is how it’s been from the very beginning. Tlou was a disappointment from the start, at least for the survival of humanity.
@TommyAck102
11 ай бұрын
I wouldnt have a problem with the rather nihilistic outlook you're pointing out here if the game gave me a reason to give a crap about most of the characters in the story. Spec Ops the line is kinda similar in the fact you're on a pointless mission (Walker even says they're supposed to leave when they find survivors) but I still cared about how my actions impacted the characters as they were ultimately my actions, not cutscene Ellie or Abby.
@EvilLandlordAccountantMan
11 ай бұрын
@@gabethyrubenstein7984 can you give a tldr?
@brian0057
11 ай бұрын
I'll never understand the love Chloe gets. As soon as the game gave me the option to sacrifice her in order to save the town, I couldn't hit the Kill Chloe choice fast enough.
@1997zhjc1
11 ай бұрын
Chloe's sacrifice essentially rewrites all your choices.
@CaptainTitforce
11 ай бұрын
@@1997zhjc1And the other ending doesn't show anything either. It's a lazy ending, no matter the choice.
@mrbigglezworth42
11 ай бұрын
@@1997zhjc1 Well she was a terrible person who had it not been for Max anyway, she was going to be dead long before the storm. Ironically, letting the storm kill her is just history itself forcibly causing an event that should've happened a long time ago.
@CommentaryNice
11 ай бұрын
No body liked Chloe the writers tried really hard to make her shitty personality appealing but it's just not and she sucks
@gabethyrubenstein7984
11 ай бұрын
The entire game Max rebuilds her relationship with Chloe. Max cares about Chloe. You don’t.
@roble8943
11 ай бұрын
I'm sure some people will disagree with me but I think an innate aspect of the zombie genre making it feel old hat is the fact every single zombie story moral is always the same "Humans are the real monsters!" twist that has been done since George Romero himself basically invented the modern non haitien zombie. EDIT: I think with how hot this take was I should clarify that I don't dislike when genre's focus on the human aspect or use it as allegory. It's more i specifically think this genre often runs that well dry to the point of start making characters stupid and unhinged to make it work at all. More than any other monster or plot device it feels like the crutch of ediginess is relied to make a point that has been made plenty of times. Some do it fantastic like Day of the Dead but it has become deranged like whatever the hell modern Walking Dead. And yeah, I think this game suffered for it to. They REALLY wanted to paint Ellie's journey as vicous and evil as possible just for her to just have the sudden change of heart of "Actually...revenge bad :(" because despite the game being about the evil's of hatred and vengeance it can't fully commit to it because they still want Ellie to be likable despite that line already being crossed. And it's just sorta become trite. Comparetivily I think the Bill and Frank episode of Last of Us is the best thing that came out of franchise because it's the best it has ever pulled at connecting with people and embracing the good and bad of humanity. It just feels more refreshing than the usual "WE HAVE TO ALL BE BASTARDS TO EACH OTHER. IT'S THE ONLY WAY WE CAN SURVIVE!".
@trustytrest
11 ай бұрын
It's trite to the point that a zombie story where humans are actually decent people just trying to survive the plague, would be the outlier at this point. Maybe even the sole outlier.
@jimmyramos7143
11 ай бұрын
I’m not sure that applies to the last of us 2. The game has a strong emphasis on how acts of kindness can change people . Abby ruins her life seeking revenge and destroys all her relationships with her friends, but her life is saved when she starts trying to protect lev. Also Ellie sparing Abby is what lets her move on from her PTSD
@UmTois
11 ай бұрын
Wasn't George Romero zombie take about capitalism, racism, sexism and etc thou?
@UmTois
11 ай бұрын
I disagree, the "humans are the real monsters" is too vague and mostly not what these stories are about. Pinpointing a theme or subject matter doesn't say anything about execution and how the writer is showing their arguments to support the ideas they are exploring. Walking Dead wasn't about how "humans are the real monsters", it's more of showing how humanity acts when society crumbles, Last of Us 1 is about the sacrifices of humanity we make for our own humanity (my interpretation at least) and Last of Us 2 is about the exchange of destructiviness for constructiveness and vice versa (Ellie and Abby having different journeys in this regard). "Humans are the real monster" doesn't really tell much about any of them specifically.
@roble8943
11 ай бұрын
@@UmTois the origonal NotLD has many diffrent readings with the racism allegory of the last surviving human (a balck man) being unceremoniously murdered by the military being one of the most famous. But George himself has admitted that as much he enjoy's these interpertations, he himself never really thought about them at the time beyond the cynical take on how people are naturally selfish, scared and stupid.
@SICProwl
11 ай бұрын
Pregnant lady shouldn’t be put fighting people with guns - pulled me right out of the game. Also, lady was obvi pregnant during the fight - stupid.
@guerreiroazul3230
11 ай бұрын
She wouldn't even be allowed to go, she is pregnant and also a doctor, no military group on earth would allow her to do that.
@brookeneeley396
11 ай бұрын
But she's a strong independent woman. You can't hold her back even when she's pregnant 😤
@oysterboy5166
11 ай бұрын
damn chill it’s just a pregnant lady
@skylinegtr655
11 ай бұрын
Same. When pregnant lady started climbing and running around with abby even though she's clearly 6-7 months in. Really goes to show the writers have never really seen a pregnant actually walk around...
@mrbigglezworth42
11 ай бұрын
@@brookeneeley396 By end the of the story she's a very dead independent woman who definitely needed a man.
@hombreg1
11 ай бұрын
See, the biggest issue I have when trying to relate to the fireflies is that for any non-community based culture, the idea of stripping the agency off someone, in this case a mere child, and choosing to sacrifice "them" for the "greater good" is inherently incompatible with the individualism we consider as ideal. I don't see Joel's actions as horrible, because the kidnapping and subsequent murder of a "kid" cannot be, in any way, depicted as a moral good, according to my moral framework. What's more, the fireflies are shown to be almost useless. There is no indication whatsoever that they might be anything else than bad fighters with a pipe-dream. So, I don't get why Druckman would want me to feel "disgusted" by Joel, nor any "vindication" from Abbie. To me, it's a story that aims higher than it can actually shoot, made by someone who evidently would prefer to make a morally ambiguous HBO series than an actual game.
@simonediliberto4314
11 ай бұрын
Abby*
@guerreiroazul3230
11 ай бұрын
To add to it. The fireflies wanted to extract the fungus in Ellie's brain to create a vaccine (in the first game it's ambiguous between cure or vaccine, but in the second they say that it's for a vaccine) which is simply stupid, we in the real world with all of our technology can't create a vaccine for fungus, yet the story wants me to believe that the fireflies in a run down hospital, with little to no resources, with little to no personal, could create and mass produce a vaccine for a fungus to save humanity. But instead i see them as crazy lunatics willing to kill a child for nothing, because they couldn't create a vaccine, and Abby's father as a doctor should know that.
@hombreg1
11 ай бұрын
@@simonediliberto4314 maaaan why is English so iffy with diminutives
@thegreatdraco3923
11 ай бұрын
It's weird, Joel gets blasted for taking away ellie's choice to sacrifice herself for humanity, yet isn't that what the fireflies were already doing? I could be wrong, but the fireflies didn't even wait for ellie to wake up from drowning before they decided to operate on her without her consent. Edit: Misspelled Joel's and the fireflies' names.
@simonediliberto4314
11 ай бұрын
@@thegreatdraco3923Joel*
@N00BSYBORG
11 ай бұрын
The ending is really what kills it. I get it. Revenge bad. Eye for an eye leaves the world blind. Ellie suddenly having that realization at the very end though feels forced as fuck. Especially since she never gets to know what Abby is really like. For all Ellie knows, she could've just spared Turbo Hitler. Turbo Hitler who know has a motive to kill you because you killed almost everybody they loved and nearly them too. But, uh, hey. The cycle of revenge is broken I guess.
@Birthday888
11 ай бұрын
But she has a kid! And she spares you twice for some reason, even though she was willing to commit horrific violence on your loved ones. That automatically makes her a good person. /Sarcasm.
@scorpion6328
11 ай бұрын
Except Ellie caused about 1000s of new cycles of revenge with all the people she killed along the way.
@willyeeton4390
11 ай бұрын
Dawg. Ellie stops because she sees Lev and Abby and recognizes it as the same thing between her and Joel. Joel had it coming, and so does Abby, and so would Ellie if Lev picked up the cycle. So Ellie stops it, because she has more important things to go back to. The story has issues, especially conflicts between the themes and the gameplay, but critiques like these just make me think people didn't play the game, or they let other folks into their head too much and didn't pay attention to the game.
@SorinPetre-ir1wf
11 ай бұрын
@willyeeton4390 Then kill Lev too. If anything this game taught me that revenge works out great if you don't leave any witnesses. But yeah what I just said,while being practical,isn't something Ellie would do. But I don't get it. Why stop at Abby and Lev? Who's to say that none of the random NPC's Ellie kills throughout the game doesn't have family members or other people that care about them who'd want to take revenge on Ellie? You can't even make the argument that it would be stupid for a random NPC's family member would seek Ellie out to kill her for revenge,because that's what happened to Joel. (Edit;typos)
@drunkencowboyagni
11 ай бұрын
@@willyeeton4390 >Joel saved an unconscious child in a militia chop shop >He had it coming Bro they were gonna butcher a child for a cure they've already butchered people for and didn't get. I don't buy into the fireflies being these beacons of hope. They were a desperate militia in a war with whatever lingering government still existed that was gonna butcher a sleeping child and toss her guardian to the wolves despite doing EVERYTHING he was asked of by them. This plotline would have worked way better and without the need for retcons had they simply used pre Ellie Joel's actions as a starting point. Instead they had to basically reframe the fireflies and the entire ending events of the first game to get this plot rolling.
@FakeNamexx
10 ай бұрын
Am I the only one who thought for sure that the fireflies were going to execute Joel at the end of part 1? First, they immediately attack and knock him out after seeing him trying to save a girl from drowning, then they immediately take that girl and drug her up so she doesn't wake up before her procedure, then they take all his stuff, then they renege on their deal, and then they start marching him out of the building with a gun to his back. Even if they weren't just gonna put a bullet in his head, they were still gonna force him back out into the middle of a place he didn't know, with non of his weapons or supplies. Attacking the fireflies was Joel's best choice for self survival.
@Sephiroth08150
9 ай бұрын
Yup. At that point, Naughty Dog couldn't do anything for me to justify a revenge sequel based on the Fireflies who were good guys all along. He's a conveyer who got essentially robbed by his employer for doing his job. It was all or nothing for him at that point.
@sonofkabisch
8 ай бұрын
They would have had it not been for Marlene's history with Joel
@QueenAleenaFan
11 ай бұрын
For a character who has some reactiveness to the harm she causes, Iji from the game Iji starts out as so unaccustomed to violence that she apologizes for killing aliens (though humanoid, non-human) who are actively massacring people she knows. It's a much simpler game (it's a free game made originally in 2008 (though updated since)), but she's more reactive to the violence she commits than a character in a game where I'm supposed to really appreciate how being a terrible person, even when feeling forced to or justified, changes a person.
@trustytrest
11 ай бұрын
Iji is a weird beast. She does care about the sanctity of life and all that, even when she's in a situation where she really shouldn't be. You can even play the game "pacifist", mostly by just eating bullets and not fighting back. I think it's more of a novelty than actually giving an effective message, though. It's like if someone in Ukraine was praised for putting down their gun and letting Russians kill whoever they want. Maybe the invaders would love that attitude, but it's pretty antithetical to any survival instinct.
@QueenAleenaFan
11 ай бұрын
@@trustytrest It is a weird game. A fun one, especially after the patch where reflects don't count as kills since the enemy did it to themselves, but a weird one.
@LarryButz
11 ай бұрын
Iji my beloved. I really liked the detail that the more she fights or the more defiant she becomes Dan’s path recommendations, the more aggressive her combat attack shouts becomes vs initial softer hyah’s.
@LarryButz
11 ай бұрын
Oh right, also regarding trustytrest’s reply, they actually added a new ending awhile back where if you *don’t* kill the one extremely genocidal soldier, she actually comes back at the very end and kills you for being a “true” pacifist when the game very loudly expressed “yeah she’s straight up unredeemable and killed thousands directly, sometimes for sport” throughout the lore and completely ruins your chance at a happy ending, winding you with the entire world getting destroyed anyway and Tor (ashamed) surviving to a celebrating homeworld and Iosa only becoming court martialed for defying orders but still being regarded as a hero to her people. Same thing goes with that one Tasen commander boss that had their own soldier kill them for Iji since he was so evil even to his own platoon, some people genuinely need to be stopped for any upward progress. “Try to be innocent, but not naive” is what I got out of it, personally.
@mofthemoth5755
11 ай бұрын
Agreed
@revolverocelot4823
11 ай бұрын
Honestly I had this idea where Ellie and Abby could've been friends or at least allies before the whole killing Joel situation. Like maybe Ellie's and Abby's groups meet up and spend a significant time trying to survive together. Ellie and Abby getting to know each other and maybe even subtely foreshadowing to abby's past and goal to kill Joel. When Abby finally does kill Joel, there's a lot more weight to it, hesitation since she knows who he is to Ellie, but at the same time she knows what he did to her. The conflict for Ellie isn't that some stranger just killed Joel, it's that someone she trusted killed Joel. With this betrayal, the conflict becomes a lot more personal between both of them.
@user-uo8ny1kj4c
10 ай бұрын
Walking dead already did it. And tlous can never improve onto it
@leandromadeireira8840
11 ай бұрын
My take on the last of us 2. There's a good story there, but the amount of plot holes, unrealistic moments, weak secondary characters hurt it a lot. A script doctor would be essential in this, maybe the series can fix it.
@guerreiroazul3230
11 ай бұрын
There's a guy called "The Almighty loli" (shit name, i know) who did a video rewriting the game, and it's pretty good, i recommend you check it out.
@semvision
11 ай бұрын
The awful pacing, and lack of nuance makes the story feel so simple, despite the pretensions to be more.
@tetrastreamxvii
11 ай бұрын
Awful secondary characters are an understatement. None of them really ties into the narrative and most of them lack common sense and chemistry.
@cryguy0000
11 ай бұрын
@@guerreiroazul3230that name is legendary
@allbonksnobrakes9677
11 ай бұрын
One could royal thatbtheybtry to Coble what's here back together for the series...but Druckman doesn't really seem to take criticism well so I have a lot of doubts about that
@bryanadkins6776
11 ай бұрын
I feel like trying to get people to feel bad about killing mooks because another mook shouts a name wasn't effective because A) I've seen this kinda thing before, most notably in the Batman Arkham games or the original FEAR and B) I've gone on rampages in GTA murdering random civvies for no other reason than boredom, why would this effect me?
@Blackan
11 ай бұрын
Streets of rage 2 has enemy names It doesn't work because it's a geniue dumb gimmick to humanize the enemies whole they try and kill you, it a hypocritical approach
@323starlight
11 ай бұрын
A classic case of Ludonarrative dissonance
@AjayRiver
11 ай бұрын
It doesnt work when theres only seven or so character models who can regularly show up in the same fights multiple times
@ItsFaisal7266
11 ай бұрын
the yakuza (like a dragon) series also had it for a long time, and from what i see, unless im forgetting it's ether, they dont serve anything important or encourage you beat characters with certain names for points (mainly the former).
@AnakinFury
11 ай бұрын
@@ItsFaisal7266Doesn’t impact game wise but weirdly makes it feel more satisfying as you shove them into the dirt. Less sympathy, more way to make you feel you really are fighting another person in that short sort of way which helps with the street brawler immersion
@torinriley7569
11 ай бұрын
Abby should have died before Ellie even got there, rendering the whole revenge journey pointless. That would have been a absolute gut-punch of an ending that would have really encapsulated the themes of Revenge.
@BerraChoirs
8 ай бұрын
I know I'm a little late on this, but I was thinking of having a note by Abby detailing on not knowing what to do next after finishing her revenge thing on Ellie. Basically saying that no matter how detailed your revenge plan is, there's no way that you're gonna handle the aftermath of it that's not well thought-out to be as your before the completion.
@thatmexicanuzer
11 ай бұрын
There's one gigantic fundamental problem with TLOU2 intentions... and that's Abby She displays no remorse for HER actions, and the story gives her close to no shit the same way it does to Ellie. It's sadly transparent really. With Ellie it's all about: Oh no, you killed the cute dog (that was gonna rip your throat off, but sure) or "No, Jason is dead!" NVM the fact that Jason shot first or when you tried to spare him he pulled an Uno reverse card, but whatever With Abbie's side of the story, you get none of that. So even if we had all that Urick talked about, with actual choices, Ellie's trauma coming into play sooner, the game would still be a flip flop of conflicting feelings, cause when you play as Abby, you are pretty much "playing a mindless shooter". Wouldn't the ending made A LITTLE more sense if it was like a Mexican Standoff where Ellie and Abby are about to kill each other, they both have their guns pointed at each other and are about to pull the trigger... but then neither one of them does it. They both unwield their guns, go their separate ways and never bring any of this up. Abby is left stranded in the edge of the ocean, and Ellie is all alone at the cabin. THAT would've been a more balanced way of expressing what TLOU2 failed so miserably at conveying
@gabethyrubenstein7984
11 ай бұрын
Yes, she does. It’s the entire reason why she helps Yara and Lev survive. Lev directly asks her about it. The problem is, no human being would ever feel sorry for killing their father’s murderer, no matter if there was a world saving vaccine involved.
@thatmexicanuzer
11 ай бұрын
@@gabethyrubenstein7984 so she's part of the cycle. What makes her any different than Ellie who wants to kill the murderer of her father figure in her life? The game makes all the excuses and gives all of the moments to Abby, but leaves none for Ellie. Abby gets to kill her dad's murderer, why doesn't Ellie get the same privilege?
@gabethyrubenstein7984
11 ай бұрын
@@thatmexicanuzer This was Kathleen’s exact point in the show. It’s not about privilege to kill whoever you can rationalize. People die every day in ways that aren’t fair. It’s about hurt people hurting people. If Ellie had found Abby sooner in the story, at the hospital where Nora was or at the aquarium where Mel and Owen were, she would have killed Abby. Ellie kills Abby every time you fail during her boss fight. But it isn’t until the end, when both of them are emotionally and physically destroyed, that Ellie is finally able to let the cycle end. If you really want to talk privilege, Ellie had the privilege of killing everyone who helped facilitate Joel’s death. Between Ellie, Joel, and Tommy, they killed every single person that mattered to Abby. Abby’s life is absolutely destroyed from when she was a Firefly, or even a Wolf. They destroyed the Fireflies, they kill her father, her best friend, her boyfriend, etc. By the time Ellie finds her, Abby has done her best to move on, so that she can develop her friendship with Lev. Abby will never be the same, but she’s trying for Lev. By killing Abby, Ellie literally starts the whole cycle all over again for Lev, leading to more fights and more death, only to get to the same position that they were. The only privilege that Ellie needed was her autonomy. As long as Ellie has lived, she has been a victim to this cycle of death. Like she said, first it was Riley, then Tess, etc. She keeps count of every single person that she has watched die. Death is more constant to her than love. In Part 2, she doesn’t care because the only thing that she cares about is Abby’s death. Ironically, this means she cares more about Abby than she does herself. She’s only able to live freely when she can let Abby go. TLDR; privilege isn’t the point. The world doesn’t owe you anything, much less justice. It’s what we owe to each other as human beings, mercy, that is the only hope for our survival.
@thatmexicanuzer
11 ай бұрын
@@gabethyrubenstein7984 what about all the people that Abby killed from that enemy faction she was always at war with? Abby still contributed. Joel and Ellie were also moving on from the first game but Abby still contributed . This is what I mean that the story forces all the burden on Ellie and gives none to Abby
@Kris-wo4pj
11 ай бұрын
@@gabethyrubenstein7984justice system wouldnt exist if thst tldr was real, mate. i wouldnt care about if someone killed my father his murderer would be worth more to me. But my mother ends of the earth torture with death being a blessing for them. Smile on my face and proud when im arrested for it cuz i wouldnt stole telling people. If ya truly love someone thats how it is. People who say they wouldnt take revenge for a loved one just didnt love them enough.
@QueenAleenaFan
11 ай бұрын
Personal feelings: TLOU 2 suffered from 'nobody telling the head writer no' syndrome. Joel should have karked it with dignity, in a way that made him heroic or at least look kinda badass, not in a way that makes him look dumb (Joel would have been more wary around people he didn't know). Getting golf clubbed was kind of lame, at best, and actively betraying expectations (imagine Rocky from the Rocky Movies not even getting to die of old age/illness or in the ring: someone just shoots him in an alley for five bucks in his wallet). Abby was never going to be sympathetic after she executed someone who we cared about. Sorry to say, but true. I don't care about her friends who supported the execution of a man who could not fight back, regardless of his wrongs. Her group dying was just desserts, far as I was concerned. Them having names just makes them named targets to me. It's like the old Deck of Cards they used to hand out that had Terrorists of import on them. I didn't empathize with any of those people, even as a civilian. The ending was stupid. They could have had a fight where Abby or Ellie won, or even one where you choose who to fight as (and thus who wins) and you could show how the whole experience changed (or ruined, if we're going to be more depressing than hopeful) each character. But, as it was, it's a bit like 'Sacrifice Chloe, vs Sacrifice the Bay' where the good choice was obvious (Chloe is one person who is only out-jerked by Rachel, Arcadia Bay has lots of innocent people who can be redeemed): Abby deserves to end the fight six feet under, along with the rest of her unit. Simple as.
@trustytrest
11 ай бұрын
The game also shows sheer naivety by making it so Abby, the person who murdered a central character to many people, is the one you're expected to pity or feel some need to spare to "end the violence", while you already have killed dozens if not hundreds of other survivors by that point with absolutely zero hamfisted drama about it. It's not like Abby's death is the one thing separating Ellen from innocence and murderer, it's really just the writers saying "look, we named this NPC so you should feel bad for killing them! their life has more value than other humans, because we said so!" And I'm not against killing other humans in the game, but they should have either made every human kill be its own memorable choice kind of like Bioshock 2 did, or cut out all the melodrama. It's basically like villains that say "you cant kill me or you'll be just as evil as me!" to a hero who killed hundreds of minions to get there. None of those kills matter ofc, because the writers didn't care about them.
@guerreiroazul3230
11 ай бұрын
Abby also became impossible to sympathize with because she killed Joel after he just saved her life and she didn't hesitate nor did she feel bad about it after the fact, it makes her be nothing short of an absolute psychopath.
@kupotenshi
11 ай бұрын
@@guerreiroazul3230 "nor did she feel bad about it after the fact" her entire part in the game is her feeling bad about it. The expression she makes immediately after it's done looks conflicted.
@guerreiroazul3230
11 ай бұрын
@@kupotenshi no she doesn't, she never once expresses any guilt over it, she regrets Mel and Owen becoming more distant with her due to her obsession, but she never feels guilty about torturing and killing a man who just saved her life while the man's brother and daughter beg for her to stop.
@ReardensmolhauzLLargo
11 ай бұрын
The main problem was Joel died in an incredibly... Uninteresting way. Killing him off could've been used in a miriad of ways that were moe interesting, instead it was used in the lamest, most meh way possible. Seriously. Having Ellie be held down and forced to watch as Joel got brainblasted... What even was the point of that? How can you have the player sympathize after seeing that scene? It was so unbelievably fucked. And that's an accomplishment. See, Joel story and lorewise... Is a genuine monster. A monster the player cares for obviously, but Jesus Christ a man willing and capable of torturing others is not a good person. But people sympathized with him because people liked Ellie. And thus we understood why he did what he did. How in gods name do you sympathize with Abby? Who can put themselves in her shoes? We might have, if she just killed Joel in a fight, where he was fighting back. Instead she jumped him, knocked his brother out, and forced his daughter to watch him die in a slow agonizing way. There was no physical way for most old fans to like Abby. That was the biggest problem. In an attempt to have a harsh, horrific and dark scene... It served only to alienate any feeling you could have had for Abby.
@srflipp_
11 ай бұрын
IF GOD WANTED ME TO GET BORED, HE WOULD NOT HAVE MADE URICSALADBAR
@lazyluca1660
11 ай бұрын
AFFIRMATIVE
@dawsond4123
11 ай бұрын
HOO-AH!
@brookeneeley396
11 ай бұрын
The thing that is frustrating is that Ellie ends up being the one who suffered the most from her actions while Abby got away, not scott free, but she had the better end
@Prototype-357
11 ай бұрын
The game thinks Abby is the most moral character cause she killed Joel, and Joel is indirectly responsible for killing all of humanity since he destroyed all chances for a vaccine, the fact Abby kills such a selfish person is supposed to make us think her side is the more just side, like Abby is speaking for all of the people Joel hurt, and the game is all too eager to shame us for not recognizing the karmic justice being delivered to Joel and for being agaisnt Abby. It's like they forget that Abby doesn't kill Joel because he doomed mankind, she kills him specifically because he is the man who killed her own father, if it wasn't joel that killed her father she would have still done the same thing, it could have been anyone that killed her father and it would have been the same. The fact Joel stole the chance for a cure has no bearing on her actions, she doesn't care about that, about all the people that died due to a lack of vaccine, she did what she did solely because she cared about her father, this one person. That is the exact same attitude Joel has about morals, never thinking about the bigger picture or the greater good, only thinking about you and yours. Abby only cares about the fact Joel doomed humanity in the sense that it validates her quest for revenge in the eyes of other people, that's how she gets other people to stand behind her quest. If Abby was the type of person to avoid killing at all costs then it might have meant something that she killed Joel to avenge her father, but she isn't, she kills just as much as everyone else. The game tries to make her seem more moral by having her empathize with the two children from the cult her own group has been fighting against but that doesn't work because of the way the devs executed things, instead of them being characters that were fully in the mindset of the cult and completely against the WLF those kids are against the cult too, they are outcasts of the cult and everyone in the cult is agaisnt them, and they specifically are the people Abby empathizes with. It would have been way more powerful if Abby was able to recognize a person who's fully indoctrinated in the cult as a human and find a way to resolve their conflict peacefully, that would actually give her the moral high ground.
@dizzydoom4230
11 ай бұрын
@@Prototype-357 "kill all of humanity". No, no he did not. Are you gonna look me in the eye and tell me the logistics of healing the world was going to work? The research, mass production, transportation, etc. of delivering the vaccine? Also, the game paints the Fireflies out as in a war against the remnants of the federal government and not doing well. They also prove themselves duplicitous by not asking Ellie's consent in the first place, not letting Joel talk to her at least one last time, taking all his shit and intending to walk him out at gunpoint to either blow his brains out or let him die in the wilderness. You're telling me these people are going to do the moral thing without strings? That they won't hold the vaccine as a clincher in their war to make people do what they want? I'll mind that these are perhaps a bit meta, given the characters' hope ride on *potentially* making a vaccine against the fungi. However, I don't think we can kid ourselves into thinking it would be any more optimistic than a tool for the Fireflies to control people. The game pretty heavily hammers how awful people can be and using that awful angle to do what they feel is in their best interests.
@curtisjackson5793
9 ай бұрын
The way I see it - but I must clarify that I don't think that the game wanted me to reach this conclusion - Abby and her protégé come off as the new Joel and Ellie, so if Ellie killed Abby at the beach, she would be killing off Joel a second time, and that's why she stops, so Ellie ends at the moral high ground, despite losing everything. Abby turns into Joel when she turns on her friends to save her protégé, while Ellie would turn into Abby if she got her revenge. It's an inversion of the common theme of revenge: it's not just that "revenge is bad", but that "not getting revenge is good, despite blowing up the world in the process", as the game actually punishes Ellie, even though she chose not to get her vengeance. I don't like this game and think it is rather shallow compared to the first, contrary to the general claim.
@PIayer_01
8 ай бұрын
Abby gets tortured for months after losing all her friends and Loved ones, except Lev. She’s got a better ending. Ellie can literally just go back to Jackson after the credits of the game lol
@curtisjackson5793
8 ай бұрын
@@PIayer_01 yeah but you forget Abby chose Lev over her old friends, essentially putting Lev over the whole world, so she became Joel, and Ellie at the end became who Joel would be if he let the fireflies kill Ellie. The games' logic is clear: would you save your father or a 100 people? Anyone who do the math and choose more people won't understand the emotional impact of the games because they're disconnecting themselves from the situation and using just reason to assess it. You're being an utilitarist, counting Ellie as better off because she could go back to a whole town of acquaintances and maybe a surrogate family, in case Dina accepts her back - and I say "surrogate", because Ellie regarded Joel as her family.
@sunbleachedangel
11 ай бұрын
You know what would actually be cool in that torture scene? What would actually say something instead of nothing? If you DID have two choices to do it or to not do it and walk away, and if you choose to not and leave, Elly tries to leave and hesitates, then you select to leave again, she turns around and looks at "whatever her name is", and when you try to go away again, she just does it anyway, that would be impactful, that would say something about Elly, but as is it's just "Press Square to torture, amazing"
@simonediliberto4314
11 ай бұрын
Ellie* also the girl's name was Nora
@sunbleachedangel
11 ай бұрын
@@simonediliberto4314 thanks, fixed
@spaghetti2097
11 ай бұрын
Within the oversaturated landscape of video essays your content always sticks out as some of the most well written and visually appealing stuff on this site. I well and truly hope you have all the facilities you need to make future content because it's consistently A1 stuff.
@godzillazfriction
2 ай бұрын
if you actually think this is the 'most' then you're too polarized for being a Drone...
@DHKrieg
11 ай бұрын
I think this game is just kinda the definition of grimderp to me. Very manipulative and over the top edgy to the point it's comedic and cheap, like how Abby's always playing and being nice to animals while Ellie's shanking dogs in the throat, or the amount of times they pull the "side character that clearly doesn't matter much gets shot unceremoniously" card (woah! boo! feel bad!) It's trying REALLY hard to be deep and sad but it's hard to feel bad to characters like that, while it's also lacking any self awareness. I ABSOLUTELY disagree that it's themes are somehow new. "The recycle of violence must end!" is like... the most boring and old cliché theme you can have in a story like that. The most interesting thing it does is "uhm, but... joel le killed people who le innocent.... what if he not le good" which, is new to you if you didn't stop to think about the first game for a few seconds. Honestly, I recently rewatched TerribleWritingAdvice's video on grimdark and the amount of boxes that fit word by word caught me off guard. (From protagonist becoming worse than antagonist to the running gag of love triangles, which is... really funny that it's real) Though, if you like it or weren't somehow exposed to it's themes before, that's obviously fine, I just found it pretentious and immature, like if you asked a teenager to write a dark fanfic following TLOU1, not to mention how much it fails and contradicts it's ideas, but that's just me and I am probably in the minority. By the way, I GOTTA point out how people were propping up the fact enemies react to you killing them as some sort of incredible, innovative thing even though it's been done before so many times. Honestly, I think that's the ultimate theme of this game, it's probably the most genius experience if you haven't consumed a lot of media that isn't very obvious and mainstream. And again, that's fine, though a bit disappointing the media that have done what it does before (and better) will never get the amount of support this does.
@apexoldguy
7 ай бұрын
Wow you took everything I thought and typed it out! I hate when the easily agreeable types say to me that 'you just didn't like Joel dying' (which was pointless, which in turn led to a even more pointless story imo) or 'you didn't understand the story', well I did understand the story, it was thrown in my face and I like you I have seen countless revenge films, like Dead Mans Shoes, Joh Wick 1, Gladiator, Leon, Kill Bill, City Of god, Fist Of Legend, Wrath Of Khan, Even RoboCop, Death Wish and I could go on for ever and these were all well made films and were well executed, where as for me tlou2 Isn't any near those well told stories. Like you say if revenge stories are quite new to you and/or you an easily agreeable person, then I understand...
@_Sage967_
11 ай бұрын
bro imagine a version of the story where Ellie still wanted to kill Abby but she tried sparing basically everyone she fought. sure it's cartoonish but imagine the gut-wrenching turmoil inside Ellie's head. she is 110% committed to killing Abby but every time she tries to sidestep Abby's friends or various people to move forward not replicating the brutality of Joel unless necessary, every single time they just pull a gun on her again and she paves a crimson path of destruction purely because she doesn't want to give up the hunt. it'd be an actualization of a dumb gimmick-run
@gabethyrubenstein7984
11 ай бұрын
She had the option to spare Nora/Owen/Mel. I wonder why she didn’t.
@Agent_Cobalt
11 ай бұрын
@@gabethyrubenstein7984 Now you are just lying
@jpkurihara
11 ай бұрын
@@gabethyrubenstein7984 Ellie literally didn't want to kill Owen or Mel. She says it at the start of that scene. She was holding them at gunpoint for information but Owen lunges for her gun and the resulting scuffle leaves them both dead. The only exception is Nora, but she inhaled the virus and would have turned anyway.
@archbishopofthecrusades9579
11 ай бұрын
@@gabethyrubenstein7984Nora was more recently after Joel's death and insulted both her and Joel, she could've shared her but she wasn't in the right state of mind. After she calmed down later abd met Mel and Owen she didn't want to hurt them, without even knowing Mel was pregnant. Owen got them killed.
@darthskele
11 ай бұрын
@@gabethyrubenstein7984Owen tried to yank the gun out of her hand after being told that she'd let them go if they just gave her info. It's funny because Abby was on the Seraphite Island, a place where the WLF were also going for a war assault. Ellie would have realistically never found Abby there anyway and would've been killed in the crossfire, so I don't see why Mel wasn't just like, "let's just tell her, she'll die either way"
@S_F_Brew
11 ай бұрын
I mean the fireflies welched on the deal they had with joel, took all his stuff and were basically marching him to his death in the outside world, all the while they were gonna basically lobotomize ellie without her consent. I dont think what joel did was as horrible as you make it out to seem- the fireflies were not as good and altruistic as the second game makes them out to be.
@S_F_Brew
11 ай бұрын
Also one of the biggest problems I have with Abby is that she basically gets away scot free with killing Joel. All the suffering she goes through in the game has nothing to do with Joel’s brutal murder- there’s no direct consequence for her revenge. All her friends were killed for simply being accomplices but in the end she gets to live with Lev while Ellie has just lost absolutely everything, despite having given up her vengance
@RongusCongus
11 ай бұрын
@@S_F_BrewSince Abby just runs away and you never see her again, the players kinda left feeling that she just gets away scot free but all of her friends are *still dead*. Maybe if they showed a scene with Abby being sad alongside Ellie's guitar scene, the player would've gotten a better "everyone lost here" feeling.
@karenwillreallyexposeyou8531
10 ай бұрын
@@RongusCongusAbby is the reason her friends are dead in the first place not only that but she still joins a firefly group in Santa Barbara so she still got away
@Gensolink
11 ай бұрын
the part of enemies begging for their life just to shoot you in the back reminds me of skyrim. It's like they present you a choice that's not there and it's incredibly frustrating when you first go through games with those things in it. You could argue it's like in doom where it's an opportunity to kill them for free but idk man always rubbed me the wrong way
@BruceWayne-fj9bm
11 ай бұрын
Skyrim enemies who surrender are either dishonest bandits who are trying to trick player or civilians. Very different than survivors in a post apocalyptic world.
@zeusy-zeus
11 ай бұрын
stop!!! i yield… … … … NEVER SHOULDA COME HERE! ⚔️
@yari4046
11 ай бұрын
dishonored's story isnt amazing either but it does the choice between "kill people or stealth" better, dishonored's combat is really fun but if you go in guns blazing the game will react and punish you for it. It's the main reason i havent done a high chaos playthrough since i would legitimately feel guilty since the game actually takes my actions into account
@jpkurihara
11 ай бұрын
The difference between Emily's drawings of Corvo... :'(
@Dhips.
11 ай бұрын
I played an all chaos run of the game. It's a fun time. If a game is going to give me fun powers I'm going to use them as much as I can. You can't give me the power to freeze time, a crossbow and several guards and not expect me to try some DIO throwing knives shit.
@AmericanBrit9834
11 ай бұрын
TBF it's not exactly as black and white as you're making it out to be. The non-lethal options are in some ways worse than just killing them. I see it less as Good Vs Evil and more of "Order Vs Chaos". Not to mention canonically, Corvo may have mostly been an orderly boy, but his hands are not blood-free.
@kveller555
11 ай бұрын
Honestly, that is actually the one issue I have with the game. I get what they were trying to do, but it just results in the game discouraging you from using most of your tools and thus limiting your options in a goddamn immersive sim. I've heard it was a last-minute decision during development, and it shows.
@yari4046
11 ай бұрын
@@AmericanBrit9834 yes that is true but that wasnt my point either. the game doesnt make you feel bad for your targets, its more about the impact that your actions have on the world itself if last of us 2 was about "having to let go or becoming a victim of the cycle of violence", then dishonored is about "fixing the world by seeking justice or giving up on the world" imo I like how the "pacifist" options still stay quite cruel to the targets, it shows that while corvo *does* want to punish them for their crimes but by limiting himself to just the targets it shows the public that these assassinations are not random killing sprees but almost a kind of karmic justice
@simonwoods2169
6 ай бұрын
Just imagine, you've travelled trough post apocalytic America, you saw a family get butchered by an horde of Infected, you've just fight against a bunch of slavers and Infected, you are tired, both physically and mentally, but you've finally reach the person responsable for your PTSD, she doesn't want to fight but you do, in the struggle she bites off two fingers of yours, at the peak of your physical and mental pain you.... have a vision of the last time you've talked in friendly terms with your surrogate dad (while until now you only saw him in his final painful moments)... not only that but instead of getting even more angrier, and give the final blow you decide to let your opponent go. Yep, top writing here buddies.
@MrSupersmash93
11 ай бұрын
There is also the problem that Gerry was okay with killing Ellie without her consent but when he was question by Marlene if he would be so quick if Abby was on the table and he hesitates and he never gives Marlene an answers. All of sudden saving humanity takes a back seat when it comes to his family and this makes Joels action justified while Abby isn't.
@godzillazfriction
2 ай бұрын
this is your 1st mistake in what you believe to be absolutely the case of truth... 'justify' - nothing is justified 'right & wrong' is once again another 'subset' of forwarding meaning via any means to indoctrinate based on prescriptive means that translate into it being descriptive by its apparent, absolute nature & the linguistic Modernism forms of indoctrination based on a higher set of perceived standards, that gets determined in its absolute form of truth to what it should & shouldn't be as... finally, you're misconstructing in its absolute form of *Jerry to not care for taking the life of an 'innocent' girl... he does & that's why he's proceeding to go for it, until Marlene sets a backbone against Jerry & make him think through to what if that was his 'daughter' but it's all on Jerry for him to proceeding this through then the Fireflies were to be established of taking innocent lives of the indoctrinated cognitive belief that the Fireflies have for the sake of 'Humanity'...
@QueenAleenaFan
11 ай бұрын
I don't know why Abby or Ellie let the other leave the fight alive, actually. I know, revenge bad, something something, etc. But...look at it practically: neither person really has any reason to let the other go. Even if Abby needs to go get her wounds treated to not die, I presume she'd just track Ellie down again later and finish the job with a well placed rifle shot. What guarantee does Abby have that Ellie won't do the same? I know, I know, I'm not suspending my disbelief, but if I let Ellie or Abby go, I'd go around with my windows covered, and my rifle by my side even in friendly territory. I'd never feel safe again, most likely: someone who did so much to me is out there, and I let them go with working arms and legs.
@scorpion6328
11 ай бұрын
Realistically, Abby and her group would have killed Tommy and Ellie along with Joel to tie up loose ends. But this is Neil Druckmann writing after all…
@guerreiroazul3230
11 ай бұрын
Realistically speaking, jackson is dead, after everything that happened the message that was send to neighboring factions is that jackson is a weak community who just let's it's members be killed without retribution, all because Druckmann failed to understand that revenge isn't just a way to make those who wronged you pay, it's a way to send a message so that others won't try to hurt you.
@sxftfeathers
11 ай бұрын
they both realized killing eachother wont bring them any satisfaction, and they should just put that energy into something else, is how i saw it
@annemone8418
11 ай бұрын
Not denying the realistic aspect of a person never being able to relax when knowing someone who hurt you and impacted your life so negatively is out there somewhere (trauma) but in terms of the games, Ellie already went after abby and didnt follow through after having her whole revalation so I dont think she'd make an effort to go after her again or that would be extremely idiotic. Abby quite literally wants nothing to do with ellie anymore and she expressed that in multiple ways. As far as us, the player knows, she didnt have a problem with letting ellie go after the theater fight and seems to just be focused on firefly stuff, so i dont see her being anxious about ellie living when she already wasnt anxious earlier. Following the fight at the pillars, if Abby is scared of anything related to ellie it's probably how indecisive she is lmao.
@guerreiroazul3230
11 ай бұрын
@@annemone8418 but from Abby's point of view the beach scene was: 1. Ellie appears out of nowhere. 2. Saves her. 3. Ellie threatens Lev for no reason. 4. Ellie fights Abby for no reason. 5. Ellie let's Abby go. If i was Abby i would see Ellie as a crazy lunatic with mental problems and i would be terrified of her.
@REDDAWNproject
11 ай бұрын
i think its really funny how TLOU and TLOU 2 have the exact opposite problems; The gameplay of 1 is pretty meh but the story is great. The story of 2 is pretty meh, but the gameplay is great. the biggest problem is how the gameplay in 2 directly contradict/fight with the narrative 2 is trying to say.
@kelp7060
11 ай бұрын
The story of 2 is not meh. It's an absolute disaster at best.
@SorinPetre-ir1wf
11 ай бұрын
I loved that part of the ending where Ellie was drowning Abby and then had a flashback of Joel playing guitar where he told her "What are you doing kiddo?There needs to be a Part 3." And Ellie is like "This truly is the last of us 2" and lets Abby go.
@charlieberry7562
10 ай бұрын
I almost quit the game when Dina didn't immediately tell Jesse she was pregnant. "It's not the right time" she says. Dina, life has decided that for you, YOU aren't a goddess who can decide when the right time is, he's the father, he NEEDS to know the second you suspect you are pregnant. Then there was the throwaway line of "Do you know of she'll keep it?" Spoken by Jesse when Ellie tells him. Now abortions are a controversial topic, I sit a bit in either side of the arguement, so it wasnt that in and of itself that bothered me, it was how nonchalant the idea was thrown out there of terminating the fetus, it really grossed me out as to me it didnt even cross my mind to do that. And with limited pills, what are they going to use, a coat-hanger? Bleach? It just threw me off. I despised all of them. I tried replaying it recently and quit when I heard Mel say "Why would it be up to Owen?" as she's decided to enter a combat zone. I yelled at the screen "BECAUSE HE'S THE FATHER YOU SOCIOPATH!". I mean she tried to act high and mighty to Abby later on, but SHE coaxed them all to kill Ellie, so she's no better. I felt sick seeing her technically kill her baby by parkouring. Honestly that child was probably dead a minute after they left the stadium anyways. Yuck. That game was just...Vile.
@crazyinsane500
10 ай бұрын
Can you tell the author may have no concept of what life is like for someone who's pregnant? And may not really know what *people* are like outside of his privileged worldview?
@SpellboundWolf
11 ай бұрын
Why should I play this game if the writers want me to feel like shit for murdering the NPCs that are designed to attack me? That's not fun gameplay. It's manipulation. Games are supposed to be fun. If I wanted to feel like shit, I would talk to my abusive father.
@trustytrest
11 ай бұрын
Notice how the game only punishes you and tries to make you feel bad for DEFENDING yourself, but it never once demonizes the people trying to kill you in the first place. It's player antagonism at its finest. That's the kind of shit school principals endorse, telling people not to fight back against bullies because then the school doesn't have to acknowledge it.
@anti6799
11 ай бұрын
its just game about angry lesbians trying to kill each other
@randomguy6679
11 ай бұрын
How does Undertale or Spec Ops fare into that equation?
@randomguy6679
11 ай бұрын
@@anti6799isn’t Abby straight?
@anti6799
11 ай бұрын
@@randomguy6679 writers said they left her sexuality a mystery bc its not really relevant to her character ig
@chrisbartolini1508
11 ай бұрын
My favorite thing about the Last of Us II is how unnecessarily politicized it was. Like bruh, can I dislike a game’s story without being considered a morally bankrupt person?
@tadesubaru1383
11 ай бұрын
The best example of a game not being fun but being great is, in my opinion, Pathologic. That game is a drag to play through, but it's an amazing experience. There are others, like the longing or fear and hunger that achieve the same thing
@kinen2020
11 ай бұрын
Maybe I’m a sociopath but felt no remorse when Ellie beat Nora to death. If anything I was like, “damn, let me see her face at least.”
@misarthim6538
11 ай бұрын
For me the Part 2 was particularly difficult to stomach, because my interpretation of the Part 1 ending was that Joel's choice signified a transition from chasing the bygone past and losing humanity in the process (Fireflies) or just nihilistic survival (Joel) into actually trying to rebuilt human society by becoming humans again - by caring about those we love and not sacrificing children on the altar of the past. It sounded like utterly positive and forward looking ending. But then in part 2 Druckman was like, actually, no, I really did meant that we should absolutely sacrifice children and Joel is evil and also did you know revenge is bad. I'm now convinced that Part 1 was beautiful by accident. Joel rescuing Ellie because he's selfish and wants her as ... like a pet or something(?) ... is such a weird and bizarre read. That completely contradicts the entire character development or even like ... the game kind of plays off the fact that Joel rediscovers his fatherhood in himself. Do fathers sacrifice for their children because they're selfish? What?
@murciadoxial8056
11 ай бұрын
well, druckmann didn't write part one, so there's that
@misarthim6538
11 ай бұрын
@@murciadoxial8056 Wait, that's not right is it. He's credited as a sole writer for Part 1. Although I think the general consensus is that Amy Henning had a lot to do with the quality of the character writing too.
@sayer4148
11 ай бұрын
@@misarthim6538 there's also Bruce Straley directing the first game if it helps answer why you felt Part 1 different from Part 2.
@blargh1456
7 ай бұрын
I thought I'd seen every stupid take about the ending, but there's always one more waiting around the corner. You watched Ellie's "Okay", and thought it was "utterly positive and forward looking"? Did you even play the game?
@misarthim6538
7 ай бұрын
@@blargh1456 Yes, obviously. What do you think the ending means?
@ignotuscapillary8313
11 ай бұрын
Yeah, the whole "these are people too" message really falls apart when these people are more than willing to gun you down like a dog if they get that chance. I feel it should've taken a bit of an Undertale approach, where based on how aggressive you are to them, the enemies will be more aggressive to you. So if you try to stealth around, take down people using non-lethal methods and spare surrended enemies then they'll try to do the same, incapacitate without killing you. And if you're running around guns blazing they'll try to take you down as well.
@jiggycalzone8585
11 ай бұрын
The worst part of TLOU2 is and has always been Druckmann himself. Full stop. A lot of flak would have been avoided by simply re-ordering the story to make Joels death a surprise twist in the mid-late game rather than at the start. Taking the time to get to know and - I'll say it, LIKE, Abby before its revealed shes hunting Joel for vengeance would have been a significantly more impactful twist and wouldnt feel like a cheat. Instead its Druckmann saying "No, you like *this* character now"
@murciadoxial8056
11 ай бұрын
let's be the script doctor for a moment and suggest some changes... let's cut constantly between abby and ellie, you see ellie dealing with the weight of joel's actions, then abby planning joel's death, at the end of act one you kill joel after building it up by cutting from ellie to abby in the planning phase, hell, you could spice it up by constantly cutting back between ellie and abby, playing them both as one tries to save joel and the other tries to kill him, and get the player to kill joel while controlling abby. act two is focused on ellie tracking abby down, and then act 3 you go back to cutting between ellie and abby, only this time abby is trying to defend herself and her friends, just like ellie did in act one, and you end it by killing abby in an scene that mirrors that of abby killing joel
@chillyfox2078
3 ай бұрын
@marc A bit late to the party but it kinda seems like this will work much better in the series
@Butterwinkle
3 ай бұрын
I'm going to be reall here; Joel was categorically correct in killing the Fireflies and rescuing Ellie. The Firefly in charge of the project was not mycologist or virologists let alone a neurologist, surgeon, or a vaccinologist. He was barely even "doctor", only holding a bachelor degree in biology, your average vet would have been more qualified. He was fucking around things they clearly had little to no understanding of. The only thing he found to "cure" a person was to slice open their brain and physically remove the fungus which invariably lead to death. Even with our own advancements beyond where we were in 2013 when the outbreak occurred, we still don't have a "vaccine" for ANY fungal infection, it just does not seem possible with our current understanding of medicine or fungus. Yet we are expected to believe that this unqualified man in a run down facility lacking the resources of the modern world can somehow find a vaccine by from the death of a patient who did not knowingly consent to her own death. Fuck no. And the worst part, Marlene and Abby knows all this but is still willing to Jerry him proceed with his ghoulish experimentation for something that is entirely beyond them to accomplish. Her refusal to accept the truth of their reality lead her to committing her own unforgivable horrors and endorsing the horrors of those under her. She is not the hero and would have undoubtedly killed Joel for refusing, even if he tried to non-lethal methods to save Ellie. Joel was not just contextually correct, he was morally correct. I will defend his actions in the hospital to the death.
@Dragnuav
11 ай бұрын
It's been three years since this game came out and all I can remember from this 'amazing and riveting' story is Senator Abbystrong, Fat Geralt, and all of the buttsex memes that came out. It's a story about revenge where Ellie decides revenge is bad after nearly wiping out a entire city worth of people.
@ziraphal
11 ай бұрын
man urick. i love this new style, a beautiful mix of drawings and live-action while still providing top-class discussions and critiques that always entrace me like a podcast. i love hearing your perspective on things, especially when they challenge my own. i wouldn't mind these being episodes on spotify. keep making good content, my guy and i hope you're doing okay :)
@FearlessGamer27
11 ай бұрын
Speaking of the possible choice the player could have at the end. I would love if in the “Kill Abbey” scene she makes a reference to something Joel did by going over to Lev, pulling her gun out towards Lev and saying “You would only come after me” before pulling the trigger. It would show the lasting impression Joel left on her and show how she replicates his monstrous actions in a ending where the player decides no mercy.
@simonediliberto4314
11 ай бұрын
But Ellie wasn’t conscious when Joel killed Marlene how would she know about that? (Unless Joel told her offscreen that he said that to Marlene before killing her but that doesn’t sound good)
@OSO-171
11 ай бұрын
Hearing your thoughts on Papers Please reminds me of something I’d actually like to recommend and hear your thoughts on if you ever play it A game that isn’t necessarily fun, is incredibly anxiety inducing, in a management sim format with a really interesting story Lobotomy Corporation
@charcoalangel7536
11 ай бұрын
I would give my kidney to hear his thoughts on Lobotomy Corporation
@thesaska2136
11 ай бұрын
Literally thought of this game during that section and personally, I think it is a good example. The repetition after each reset due to messing somethin' up (or bein' just unlucky) do shows how it feels to be a manager in a corporation with SCP like creatures. Your employees die if you're not carefull and you can get softlocked just by picking a wrong abno, forcing you to reset your progress and start day 1. And it all makes sense to the indeed interesting story.
@theinfomaniac8988
11 ай бұрын
As someone who well spent over a hundred hours in each of project moons games and read through the comics, I would go batshit crazy if someone with a wide influence covered anything made by them.
@snwoop7921
11 ай бұрын
@@theinfomaniac8988pyrocynical
@christhethinker6791
11 ай бұрын
YES, MAKE THEM A NEW PROJECT MOON FAN
@ApexGale
11 ай бұрын
People who complain about the "wokeness" in the game are complete and utter morons. The reason this game isn't as good as the first is simple - the story structure just doesn't work. Events are a chronological mess. Joel's death should have been the midpoint climax of the story. The flashbacks should have been the beginning. Then we play as Abby, THEN we get to Ellie in the current time and go from there. Also wish Dina were a lot more present as a character instead of feeling like a trophy wife.
@thatitalianlameguy2235
11 ай бұрын
The wokeness is a shield for bad writing. just have a character say bigot sandwich and put 5 minutes of lesbians on screen and the game is now just being harassed by homophobes
@TheVenhammer
11 ай бұрын
The only “woke” thing that really bothered me was when Mel said “why would it be up to Owen” when she was heading out the the front lines while clearly in the later parts of pregnancy. I assume they’re going for a sort of “my body my choice” thing, but she’s not getting an abortion, she’s risking her life while very pregnant while at the same time diminishing Owen’s role as a father. Like, are they saying Owen isn’t allowed to voice opinions because he’s not the one carrying the baby? Last time I checked, we want fathers to be involved in their children’s lives.
@Y0uTubeCommentPoster
11 ай бұрын
Part of my problem with this game was a serious lack of empathy for Abby. Not because she killed Joel, but because... she's kind of a fascist? She is violent not for reasons of pragmatism, but of sheer hate for the people she kills. And she has no problem being the violent tool of an oppressive group. Her one good deed - saving Lev - seems to come out of nowhere (I know it's supposed to be because she feels guilty about killing Joel - but come on), and goes against what we've learned about her so far.
@fireboythestar3455
11 ай бұрын
Define fascism.
@CouchRadish
11 ай бұрын
You really sum up the major problems with TLOU2: the gameplay doesn’t work with the message of forgiveness and trying to make me retroactively guilty over killing characters that the game gave me no option not to.
@kingbash6466
11 ай бұрын
Honestly, I think they should have gradually showed Ellie losing more and more of her humanity and compassion as the game goes on. Like have it be earlier in the story where she starts her journey, she's more emotionally active, yeah she's upset, but you can tell she's doing these things out of love. Hell, have it where when she kills one of Abby's friends, she's completely distraught and caught off guard by her empathy. However, as the game goes on, she becomes a much more effective killer, but she also loses more of that empathy. It'll be to the point where she's not even showing any noticeable emotions when she kills Mel because she's grown so numb and consumed by revenge, that not even the death of an unborn baby can muster anything other than slight grimace on her face.
@murciadoxial8056
11 ай бұрын
something as simple as giving us the choice to be more or less violent and then showing us the consequences or the path we choose would've been more than enough to get the point of the game across properly
@dizzydoom4230
11 ай бұрын
God, I hate when people bring up the agency part when Ellie herself was never GIVEN A CHOICE to become the world's cure through being killed specifically. All because the Fireflies, very obviously, were not going to say 'yes' if she decided she got cold feet and backed out. Also, the opening is kind of nonsensical even if you take Joel having softened even a little (doubtful, given how many years he's fucked around and had to hardened in his post-apocalypse). Why the hell did he walk right in to Abby and gang's base and blatantly give out his name and where they live? Especially when they know there's still plenty of raiders out there? I don't see Joel of all people just handing off his agency into someone else's space.
@crazyinsane500
11 ай бұрын
Well to be fair, it seems that ChatGPT wrote this video's script, so of course Ellie's agency wouldn't have been brought into the equation, it hasn't been trained enough to recognize that as a thing to bring up.
@loren5432
8 ай бұрын
Quite frankly, I was disappointed in Urick 10 minutes in the video already, and this was a 1 hour thing. It irks me how everyone (not just Naughty, but EVERYONE who played TLOU) just decided to convinentely develop collective amnesia and not realize that Ellie's entire medical operation was retconned to hell, and even after such retcons Joel is still a good guy despite TLOU 2 trying so hard to paint him as an evil guy with good intentions. In the first part (at least in the original/PS4 releases) it's painfully obvious that the Fireflies were a bunch of madmen who clearly didn't know how to develop "a cure", not just because as soon as they get Ellie their first thought is "LeT's KIll HeR!" (instead of getting blood/urine samples and whatnot), but also because the entire place looked messy and unclean, so any kind of stuff they'd have obtained from her would have been contaminated. But even if we ignored all these glaring faults and somehow saw the Fireflies as these geniuses who knew exactly what they were doing, they literally drugged up a kid AGAINST her consent and kept the information from her that they needed to kill her. And don't give me the crap of "oH shE woUlD haVe cOnsEntEd", because that's unrealistic as hell; no sane person, especially no kid would willingly kill themselves for a shot at "saving" humanity. And even if in the future one can claim what they would have done, they don't actually know how they'd react at the moment they are given the choice, because most people would get cold feet when given a choice with an ambiguous result like that. Also, seriously, we are defending (wannabe) medical doctors killing children without their consent now? Is that the moral of TLOU? But again, let's ignore all of this and let's assume that The Fireflies were pros who knew what they were doing and gave Ellie the option to kill herself for humanity or not. What do you think would have happened if Ellie refused to go through with it? In what moment exactly do we see the Fireflies being moral and reasonable people as much as TLOU 2 wanted to paint them to be? Her hostility towards Joel in Part 2 is so stupid and unbelievable, I literally felt like I was reading "The Last Fanfiction: Part 2". I understand that she might feel "Survivor's Guilt" or something like that over having Joel rescue her even though her dying could have "possibly" saved humanity, but the way she blames Joel from "robbing her of her choice" even though she had NONE to begin with is so infuriating. The characters feel so robotic (unlike in the original Part 1, with some exceptions) because nothing makes sense due to the amount of retcons and mind leaps one has to go through to naturally absorb the writer's intention when it comes to writing Joel as the bad guy and Abby as the good guy, but when you take a step back from it and start thinking, it literally falls apart because nothing about it makes sense at all.
@lungsofjack
2 ай бұрын
@@loren5432read this entire thing nodding.
@Agent_Cobalt
11 ай бұрын
It’s a classic story at this point. Creator doesn’t like that the fans enjoyed a flawed character as much as they did. So they reduce and slander them to being wrong in a scenario that they actually where morally correct. Then they prop up new characters who are actually MORE morally in the wrong and refuse to understand why the original character is so beloved. It’s death of the author Joel is Rorschach
@joecrazy9896
11 ай бұрын
30:11 "No, no. Ellie, you're supposed to ask her the question after the swing" - Muller
@darthskele
11 ай бұрын
I love that little animated clip of Mauler's playthrough so much "Ellie, you're gonna kill her"
@belzimbub
11 ай бұрын
You absolutely make the new format work - footages, illustrations and camera stuff blend together very well! You mentioned in one of your videos that you struggle to sound genuine. But I think your expressions convey everything that could be missed. So that's another bonus of this new style :)
@TheLalacream
11 ай бұрын
I think it should of had two endings depending on how many people you spare. You kill everyone, Ellie doesn't end the cycle of violence. You spare a certain amount of goons (via playing stealthily, possibly overhearing some banter between the npcs), and/or you spare certain characters that are connected to Abby (giving you/Ellie extra dialog to learn more about Abby, adding diary entries reflecting on what kind of person Joel's killer could possibly be). In the end Ellie can't bring herself to kill Abby because she doesn't just see Joel's killer anymore. She sees a person who not only has people who care about her, but who also scarily reminds her of herself (via her learning that Abby is the daughter of one of the doctors that Joel killed to save Ellie). Maybe she doesn't even intentionally spare Abby. She instead has a moment where her mind finally puts the pieces together, leaving Abby an opportunity to escape, and Ellie doesn't try to stop or chase after her. She gives up on her revenge.
@filipvadas7602
10 ай бұрын
TLOU Part 2 is a perfect example of a story guiding the characters instead of the other way around. So much of what happens in the story plays out the way it does not becuuse it makes sense for the characters, but because the writers were trying to make a *point* all the while gaslighting you that its deeper than it actually is. Like Ellie and Tommy being left alive when they were the only witnesses to Joel's murder. Or a goddamn pregnant lady, and a *doctor* , being sent out to a battlefield. (WTF!?) Or, the worst of all, Ellie sparing Abby for no reason whatsoever. If they had at least gone all the way, the theme of "revenge bad" would at least be poignant. Ellie got her revenge, but it cost her her humanity and family. Instead she just lets her go and she loses everything anyway. Which, if anything, creates the narrative that revenge is bad only if you don't follow through.
@Sephiroth08150
7 ай бұрын
Felt to me like "Revenge is bad" only when Ellie is the one seeking it. Abby got hers on a silver platter, never felt sorry for it, and wasn't shown grieving her losses. She gets to have her happy ending, while Ellie lost everything after aborting the violence circle.
@blargh1456
7 ай бұрын
@@Sephiroth08150 Happy ending? Everyone she ever loved, bar one, was murdered. Mostly as a direct consequence of her own actions.
@stevenburrows240
7 ай бұрын
Hey, congrats you missed all the context. No surprise tho. Joel was the person they wanted dead, not anyone else. They even say “if we kill them, we’re no better than he is”. Makes sense. Yes, Mel was pregnant, but I’m gonna guess you missed what he occupation was. I’ll fill you in, she was a medic. Gonna guess you missed how Issac was gathering his troops at one base and within that one base, lots of wounded soldiers were coming in. There’s also the fact that Owen is dodging her completely, which played a part in why she wanted to get out. She was just headed to that base, they didn’t know they’d be ambushed and lose their Hummer. Yeah, Ellie killed plenty of WLF and Serphites but those were self defense. It was literally kill or be killed. They shot Ellie and co on sight without regard to who she might be. But I’m gonna guess you missed how messed up she was after she tortured Nora to death? I’m also gonna guess you missed how traumatic it was to kill Mel and Owen? Y’know because if you were paying attention you would’ve see she didn’t want to and was devastated that she had to. Yes, they were self defense kills as well, but unlike the others these more personal ones were hitting too close to home.. She tried to be Joel and failed miserably she wasn’t prepared for what she was getting herself into. By the time she leaves the Farm, she’s looking for closure for her grieving and PTSD. She just thought killing Abby was gonna bring that to her. She found her inner peace which is all she wanted. But hey, like I said congrats on missing all of this. Hardly surprising tbh
@stevenburrows240
7 ай бұрын
@@blargh1456none of these people actually understood Part 2, it’s plain as day when reading their comments. Wouldn’t be surprised if most didn’t even play it
@Sephiroth08150
7 ай бұрын
@@blargh1456 Manny was literally a "Oh no! Manny! Anyways..." The game failed to show Abby having an emotional response. Ellie clearly wasn't okay with killing the targets, and suffered the most for her quest. She was shown grieving multiple times. Abby, on her end, never was.
@PygmyGoat3
11 ай бұрын
I've never played like 90% of the games you've talked about, but I watch and REwatch all your videos all the time. Your art, graphic design, and kinetic typography are so snappy and beautiful to look at, and you're also incredibly good at explaining your points in a way that's easy to get on board with. I'm glad you're adjusting your content to be easier to produce while still retaining the feeling of your past videos, your channel is amazing!!
@devondorr8212
11 ай бұрын
Who would make you feel more conflicted in violence: - Realistic NPC behaviours when allies get killed. vs - Big Doggo with Sword looking over her master's grave
@tinpan6052
11 ай бұрын
The dark souls games are pretty good at making you feel bad for killing SOME of the NPC’s (fuck Patches, Pate and Creighton), DS1 has of course Sif, DS2 has lucatiel when she goes hollow and DS3… well i cant actually think of an example from DS3
@randomguy6679
11 ай бұрын
@@tinpan6052Dark Souls 3 had the soul of cinder
@yup7380
4 ай бұрын
@@tinpan6052 I think Slave Knight Gael is a great example. It's an epic boss fight lol that makes you want to refight it again and again but... Trying to reflect why Gael became and did what he did, I feel bad but also somewhat admiration that he went that far to save what remains of humanity in a dead world.
@Andrew-fq7pu
7 ай бұрын
TLOU2 has a serious narrative problem, that watching the team get interviewed makes clear. They had a lot of ideas and all of the ones that Druckmann second guessed himself out of sounded better than what we got. The original plan was having Ellie kill Abby then have her epiphany about the cycle of violence. In order to have that catharsis as powerful as possible for the player, they made Abby a necro-sadist in her ending of Joel. It's an old narrative device. Make her irredeemable to make her death more satisfying. Yet they then decided to change the outcome & humanise her in the middle. This could've worked, if they'd gone back & made her less repugnant in the initial encounter. A simple kangaroo court and a clean bullet to the head "for robbing humanity of it's last hope" would've worked. Her sparing Ellie and Tommy would've made sense if she believed she was enacting simple justice, making her understandable and redeemable later, no matter how you felt about Joel. Keeping the Joel in one with Abby at the start only works for the original ending, not the one we ended up with. After the Joel in one, sparing Tommy and Ellieh makes no sense. Look at how far Abby has pushed herself to get revenge, yet it never occurs to her that Tommy and/or Ellie would do the same? Her sparing them after the sadistic brutality she inflicted in front of them, on a man who'd just saved her life no less, smacked of unbelievable contrivance and is utterly inexplicable within the context of game. Right there is where it lost me and never recovered. Where the first game made you think and just presented scenarios for the player to judge themselves, the sequel waffles and preaches endlessly, whilst forcing you into a gameplay loop diametrically opposed to what it's clearly trying to manipulate you into feeling. It's done so superficially and transparently (no pun intended) that it's crass and insulting, not engaging. Straley and Hennig were clearly far more important than we thought to the quality of the first game.
@crazyinsane500
7 ай бұрын
You know what's worse? Abby was *never* going to die. Neil Druckmann fired people for so much as saying they didn't like her. He even had the scene with Ellie drowning Abby changed to remove it as a QTE because testers kept pressing the QTE well beyond what was required. The documentary was a puff piece made by Naughty Dog that didn't get into the real creative process, and yet despite that it doesn't portray them well. This was the best way they thought they could portray themselves, and it still comes up short, just like how Neil *genuinely* thought people would love Abby by the end of the game. It's been years and the people responsible for TLOU2 have learned nothing.
@Andrew-fq7pu
7 ай бұрын
@@crazyinsane500 Yep. He may've had original thought s on killing her, but at some point he became enamored. TLOU2 made it clear he saw Abby & Lev as the new Joel and Ellie.
@crazyinsane500
7 ай бұрын
@@Andrew-fq7pu No, see, *never* means *never.* Not even conceptually. The "documentary" produced by Naughty Dog, overseen by Naughty Dog, and given final cut privilege by Naughty Dog may have, surprisingly, lied in what Neil Druckmann thought would've been favorable to Naughty Dog. You're right, Abby *was* supposed to be the new Joel and Ellie. Not to match with any grander scale theme, but because behind-the-scenes stuff was incredibly childish. See, because Neil didn't get his way with the first game and kept having his "genius" ideas rejected, most of which you see reworked lazily in TLOU2, he felt jilted and decided to destroy everything from the first game and do things with his original characters, unattached to the original content. Abby was *never* going to die, because you can't pivot an entire franchise to be about how cool Abby is, the new character created uniquely by Neil Druckmann, if Abby's dead.
@Andrew-fq7pu
7 ай бұрын
@@crazyinsane500 I don't know. Could they have lied? Yes. Is Druckmann the type of person that would lie to push an agenda /deflect criticism? Absolutely. Is he so monumentally idiotic that he'd think sparing Abby after making her a necro-sadist at the beginning? I'd like to think not, because he said it out of his own mouth, but maybe that's just giving him too much benefit of the doubt due to the first game. TLOU2 shows just how performative and meaningless his virtue signalling is, so maybe "never" it was. I mean, look at how he trumpeted his trans allyship by giving us Lev, a trans-character whose story would not change at all if she wasn't trans. And how creepy he was in stalking the ypung actor on SM. We definitely agree that he wanted Joel & Ellie replaced though and regardless of initial intentions, that's exactly what he did.
@Entrophius
11 ай бұрын
Oh no! You killed mr. Sniffybums! And his dog!
@Floppy-Cock
3 ай бұрын
“NO, SNIFFY!”
@joeslickback
11 ай бұрын
"If Naughty Dog wants to talk about the gator under the bed, then I'm going to talk about the gator under the bed."
@uhohspaghettios821
8 ай бұрын
i really like how you do the lighting in your room to match the mood of the scene, really clever stuff.
@nicholasgonzalez7826
11 ай бұрын
Your videos are incredibly well put Together and always teach me new ways or perspectives to narratively deconstruct of view a piece of media, thank you sincerely for continuing to make such amazing content.
@badtree
11 ай бұрын
I love that you change the lighting in your room to match with the artwork
@Williby45
11 ай бұрын
Hearing about the creators “feelings” and how that was part of why he made the game the way it is makes me sick
@ihaveaplan.ijustneedmoney.9777
11 ай бұрын
AlmightyLoli has a really good video comparing TLOU2 with Spec Ops: The Line. Two similar "fun" shooters that aims to guilt trip the player for having fun. Only SO:TL did not pull any punches and hammered it home with a much simpler story, while TLOU2 was constantly getting in the way of its own ambition by trying to be complex.
@watchmehope6560
11 ай бұрын
That guy makess good berserk videos. Frfr
@rustyshackelford312
10 ай бұрын
The last of us should have been an anthology series. Maybe have some of the character from other games cross paths but never have the same protagonists twice.
@crazyinsane500
10 ай бұрын
You mean like the original plan before the original team was ousted from Naughty Dog?
@loganentertainment1814
10 ай бұрын
While I do understand that the message was all about how revenge doesn’t undo what happened, given that Joel was killed, it would have been nice to have some kind of justice. Hell, Abby got her revenge, and Ellie never really got justice. The one thing I hated, was how we played as Abby, and I was so tired of her. The game tries to have us sympathize for her, but I don’t feel bad for her at all. Her dad was willing to kill Ellie to make a fungi vaccine, which is stupid, because sacrificing Ellie would be the last thing any doctor would want to do. So even if Joel killed Abby’s dad because it wasn’t a good idea, he still had a good reason to do what he did. Even when Ellie does get the upper hand at the end, she still spares Abby, despite willing to give up a happy life she could have had, and lost her ability to play the guitar. If the game only focused on Ellie, it wouldn’t have been as long, and I would have enjoyed it a little more. I understand the message that’s being given, it’s just how it’s done that matters. Overall, it was a disappointment, and I doubt I’ll play this game again. Edit: I will admit I don’t completely hate the game, I thought there were some good moments, it was the story that I didn’t like. I won’t judge anyone if they do like TLOU 2.
@theEisbergmann
6 ай бұрын
I think Abbys character developement is just lazy and badly written. She just switches from violent, idgaf killer, to "we really shouldn't repeat this cycle of hatred" within like two scenes... thats what I disliked the most.
@outlier9099
11 ай бұрын
Its good your doing things that dont require thousands of individual drawings, even if i miss it. However, i LOVE this new style; the screen, the lighting, the portrait camera mode for theoretical viewer questions - its great!
@drdeadred851
11 ай бұрын
I think really the biggest problem with the games story and most peoples division on it is that people are very split over the ethics/morality of the ending of LoU1 and how Joel is then portrayed and treated by other characters as a result. There are many other plot problems with the game, but this to me has always seemed like the number one reason some, including me honestly, just outright cant stand the game and others seemingly like it more than the first. Brushing off the likelihood of them being able to make a cure, directly at the cost of killing Ellie as the doctor was refusing to let him save her so he had to kill him and as he said later they would have just kept coming after her since she was at least from what was shown their only hope of making a cure they had nothing else, is a pretty massively important point. To fault the first game there are numerous things that could have avoided this ending, multiple characters acted stupid for no reason in order for the big fight to happen, regarding the morality of it for instance they make it clear they didnt have any consent from Ellie to Joel for some reason like why would you tell or infer that to him. If she had consented to it and had Ellie talked with Joel about it for instance then Joel would have 100% been in the wrong, they instead just keep her drugged up and send her straight to get murdered to maybe get a cure that will only realistically solve half of the problems in the world at best, given that the apocalypse has already happened and through the game its made clear by the infected being only half the enemies in the game at best that their not really the sole problem. It isnt at all realistic to assume, "I'll let them kill my new daughter then the world will be saved.", there is a vast amount of stuff between maybe getting a cure from killing ellie and the world being saved. Its not like a cure would return most of the infected to normal, it would be a vaccination at best and that only stops people turning from bites and spores etc. it doesn't make them immune to being munched on or immune to humans shooting them or immune to starving to death. It is also a terrorist organisation that are the ones doing this, you would have to be insane to think they wouldnt be using the cure as a political tool, their going to only use it to benefit them their not just gonna magically give it out to everyone everywhere, which is also another problem with the whole thing how are they meant to distribute it all? Being realistic they could have just tied him up or killed him, instead they do everything they can to motivate him to go on a killing spree and then do as little as possible to facilitate him being able to do that. The first game is by no means perfect. So the choice isnt "save the world and let ellie die or selfishly stop her from being a hero and for no reason murder a bunch of pure good individuals", its "let this terror cell kill my daughter who they drugged up without her consent and maybe it will result in a vaccine which might be able to help more people depending what they do with it, or I try to save her from these obviously bad people who refuse to give her a choice and leave me with no choice but to kill them as they refuse to let her live and will be guaranteed to come after her." The Devs frankly just outright failed at making the ending grey when you spend any ammount of time thinking about it, and they gave the whole fanbase of the first game a decade to think about it before the second game where they based everthing in it on this very poorly executed "morally grey" ending and as part of that killed off the protagonist of the first game at the start of it while trying to force feed you obviously poorly retconned excuses as to why actually Joel is bad and then you have to play as the character who brutally murdered him infront of the other protagonist of the first game. With the ending then being, 'ah well I guess we're all bad and I wont kill you cus I need to stop the cycle of violence' and then Ellie proceeds to be left all alone, now maimed to add literal insult to injury and with nothing to show for all of it. Meanwhile Abby walks away fine with her friend having done nothing to redeem her character she is just spared for no real reason at all.
@Metalseadraking
11 ай бұрын
A lot of the games problems stem a contradicting design philosophy The game wants us to condemn revenge and violence, yet it is not only the most fun part of the game, but also punishes you or doesnt even give you the choice to spare people (example you are forced to kill a dog and later also forced to feel bad for doing that) The game wants people to sympathize with Abby, yet her story is revealed a lot later when chances are, that the average player has already a opinion built on a negative basis for killing Joel. Made especially worse if you played the first game. Troughout the game, there is no options for mercy or foreshadowing that Ellie slowly regrets taking revenge yet in the End she decides to spare Abby, despite being the catalyst for most of the plot, while non of the other npcs are allowed mercy Not guaranteed, but I would say its the reason why the game is so devisive.
@josephkroll5517
11 ай бұрын
If you want a game that has shooting that also makes you feel bad for the characters then you need to try Spec Ops: The Line. Its a third person shooter taking inspiration from Heart of Darkness and Apocalpyse Now about a mans good intentions constantly leading him to make horrid decisions that further accelerate his descent to madness
@Alicaso
11 ай бұрын
Im probably just biased but that game did the message of thinking about your actions and mindless killing way better than last of us 2m
@Prototype-357
11 ай бұрын
I'm convinced Naughtydog was copying Spec Ops: The Line when they made this game, like they were so desperate to one up the success of the first game but had no idea how to do it so they searched for the most deep reflection on the nature of violence they could find and arrived at SO: The Line.
@Alicaso
11 ай бұрын
@@Prototype-357 there might have been some light influnce. even tho SO:TL is one of my alltime favorite games i cant say its perfect, especially when it comes to the "deep reflection on the nature of violence", but it is the most prominent video game with said topic (to my knowledge). but its definitely better at it tha tlou2. the biggest reason is wheres as ludonarative dissonance is a point that spec ops makes its a flaw that tlou2 suffers from.
@strayorion2031
11 ай бұрын
the last of us II aged worse now that we know it as created based of the creator´s hate for palestinians
@phenomenal-flop
11 ай бұрын
I don't understand why youtubers NEVER bring this up. Its literally engrained in the game. The departure of Bruce from the first game also explains a lot.
@alvarez332
11 ай бұрын
Let's all never forget that a series that deals with themes of lack of control and the futility of a soldier with free will during a war gives you an option to do a pacifist run while the game that flaunts around saying "Violence bad" doesnt.
@improvwithlions4173
9 ай бұрын
Even postal lets you do a pacifist run, lol
@jonathanmendez310
11 ай бұрын
No matter what anyone says, Ellie killing everybody including a prego girl but not killing the person who actually did the beating bc that is the most dumbest thing ever
@watchmehope6560
10 ай бұрын
The pregant lady death is so dumb. Ellie didn't even know. It falls on that idiot of a character to mention it. But no. Ellie is a monster
11 ай бұрын
HE'S BACK !!!!!! HELL YEAH BABY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@MoostachedSaiyanPrince
11 ай бұрын
I honestly feel like Ellie actually going through with killing Abby would've been a more impactful ending. Like she kills Abby, sees Liv (I think that was his name) looking at her in horror, and realizes she's become something that's potentially worse than what she saw Joel as. She then returns home, realizes she's alone and has lost everything and gained nothing but a target on her back for everything she did in he pursuit of Abby. Maybe even have her remark that she's almost grateful there was no one waiting for her when she got home because it means that when her actions DO catch up with her, there will be no one there to continue the cycle of revenge she's perpetuated.
@TheShadowHatter
11 ай бұрын
I don't have much to say about TLOS2 since I never played it, only wanted to give you feedback and say I loved the way you did this video man. From the usual stuff you do with your artwork and transitions, to the new live stuff where I can finally see your face and the cinematography/lighting and it all blends really well. It was an hour video that didn't feel like an hour because of how engaged I was from start to finish. Looking forward to your next videos man it looks like they're getting better and better!
@cannandreas
11 ай бұрын
Let's not forget when you kill the german shepherd Alice, the game decides to force you through an abandoned pet store. Yet despite killing lots of dogs throughout the game, I'm supposed to care? Unsubtle and manipulative stuff like this ruin the game for me.
@GreyMagee74
11 ай бұрын
Metro Exodus does the mechanic of "being a pasifist affecting the overall story" perfectly.
@christophernoneya4635
11 ай бұрын
Glad to see some really valid criticisms of the game, I feel a good amount of people got away with some really poor critique at its launch because it was popular to dunk on. Heres my main critiques: Joels death serves to make Abby unlikeable from the word go, she then has to be redeemed but the game waits until the climax to stop and go back and try to redeem her. In my opinion Abby and Ellie's story should have been cut between throughout the game to avoid that awkward moment at the theatre where the game says "actually lets go back to the start from someone else's perspective" while you just want to see what happens next. I'd have also moved Joel's death back more so we can like Abby before she does her thing. The game places weird emphasis on certain characters who mean nothing in the overall story from either character's perspective. It screams "we had plans for them but changed it" more than anything and imo leads to a bit of confusion and bloat. The game's choices were invisible and unimpactful. The part you mention, a "dog eat dog world" where its hard to feel bad killing someone who is out to kill you (even if you act preemptively) makes it really hard to care about a lot of these sections. I did actually like NPC's screaming eachother's names as I wiped them out (I was waiting for one to say mine but i never got one sadly) because it helped immerse me in the setting and helped me view these murder squads as something a little more than goons in my way... it did not however impact how i felt mowing them down. They dont often present you with the choice to sneak by, and often unless you know where you're going its not viable to try and the gameplay seeks to punish it. I can see people trying to do pacifist runs, but unlike games where the option is clearly presented and supported like splintercell or deus ex its a worse experience to do so. Disconnect between the player and the character is perfectly fine, you can play as a clearly defined character with their own goals and motivations in other games but I think the problem with Ellie and Abby is by the midpoint to end of the game it feels more like watching your friend make the same stupid decisions over and over again and not learn anything from them. You want the player to empathize with the character, but when the character acts like a dumbass who doesn't learn its hard to feel bad for them or justify their actions. At the end of the game I imagine most people like myself were just exhausted with Ellie's quest (especially considering it ends then starts again at the drop of a hat) when she's clearly been self destructing for 20 hours before that point and had it shoved into her face multiple times. She's had the time and cause to self reflect, but she only falters and questions her motives when she's won, and at that she changes her mind multiple times... it doesnt feel like an internal struggle, as an audience member it felt more like "i can't believe we're back to this again" sort of melodrama. The factions feel like they belong in a middling fallout game, not the grounded setting they wish to present. They're quirky, weirdly mixed metaphors, and inhuman. In TLOU1 factions were just "heres a group of assholes in the city" "heres a group of assholes with a creep in a leadership position, people hate him but he has enough pull to make them help with his creepy plot", these were grounded enough and felt more like survivors than anything. Meanwhile TLOU2 has a group of mute luddites and starship trooper soldiers who literally live on a sports field as their main antogonists. It gets worse when you examine them, for example the luddites play both the role in the narrative as oppressive fundamentalist christians... and also indigenous americans for some reason. These mixed metaphors feel confused, like no one actually discussed what the implications of each of the story beats actually were. tl;dr Abby's first act was evil and the game only attempted to redeem her halfway through by pausing the narrative for 10 hours, the games microchoices dont exist, its really hard to empathize with the characters because they make the exact same stupid choices constantly and dont learn from them, and the factions suck
@TimDownsAnimation
11 ай бұрын
Great stuff, man! It's refreshing to hear someone say they don't like Part 2's ending without it just jumping on The Abbie Hate Train. I really really like the game a lot, but I agree with the criticism 100%. I think another comparison you could make about gameplay-narrative dissonance is Far Cry 3, where Jason's bloodlust grows throughout his journey. The more you play, the more violent you get (ignoring the unexplained immediate gun competency at the start lol) and the game gets more fun and killing becomes easier via the skill tree and just generally getting accustomed to the game. And Jason's comfort with-- or love of-- violence starts to show through the cracks in dialogue and cutscenes (admittedly sometimes bit on-the-nose). Not a perfect game, but a cool example of narrative and gameplay working in parallel, unlike Ellie's portion of Part 2.
@thatitalianlameguy2235
11 ай бұрын
But she does suck because she does awful things and is never punished for the revenge, SHE'S PUNISHED FOR NOT KILLING ENOUGH. Ellie is clearly hurting herself, but Abby only fucked up in leaving Ellie alive and doesn't really regret what she's done
@TimDownsAnimation
11 ай бұрын
@@thatitalianlameguy2235 we can agree to disagree
@domarealhumanbeing
11 ай бұрын
I made a little edit a while back where I put a cut to black when Elle was drowning Abby and it was legitimately the most poignant moment in the whole game. Ambiguity is what gave part one’s ending that extra punch. If naughty dog had stones they would have left the ending up to interpretation and it would still work within the subtext of the cycle of violence. The bookended epilogue still works no matter if she killed Abby or not. I still love the game but mmaaaannn I am not a fan of the ending at all.
@ladywithpinkglasses
10 ай бұрын
They really should've start the game with Abby's side of the story. The shock value and the moral dillema (when we found out who she is and what her motivations are) would be much more effective. In my opinion.
@jacobgonzalez2002
10 ай бұрын
Or hear me out get rid of the Abby character and make it to where Marlene had a daughter or son it would make more sense considering she was closer with Ellie than Abby’s dad
@crazyinsane500
10 ай бұрын
@@jacobgonzalez2002 Well originally Abby *was* going to be Marlene's child, however Laura Bailey already got in trouble for playing a person of color in Uncharted 4, so they had to rewrite that when it came to designing her character. You can actually see artifacts of that in the finished script of the game where Abby *never* mentions who her parent is outside of cutscenes directly interacting with them.
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