As an Anglican and also a long time follower of Jordan Cooper’s content, I very much enjoyed this conversation.
@PipingPsalmist
2 жыл бұрын
I have to kinda blush and say that GOD used an Anglican priest to bring me into the faith and I've used the 1662 Book of Common Prayer, despite my leaning towards Lutheranism now as I feel the need to safeguard the doctrines of church with confessions along with historic creeds and church history.
@hbcbrassroots
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks, Dr. Cooper. I am a priest serving in a traditional, Reformed Episcopal parish. I appreciate your videos, and this one in particular. This kind of discussion brings charity and clarity.
@pjwg
3 жыл бұрын
Honestly I probably would have become an Anglican if it wasn’t for Lutheranism. C.S. Lewis was an awesome man of God and should make Anglicans proud.
@DrJordanBCooper
3 жыл бұрын
I would have too.
@pjwg
3 жыл бұрын
@@DrJordanBCooper oh cool. I’m not the only one 😆
@barelyprotestant5365
3 жыл бұрын
C.S. Lewis is part of the reason I'm Anglican. I do love Lutheranism, though.
@pjwg
3 жыл бұрын
@@barelyprotestant5365 yes :) I remember early on, when I was hesitant about the liturgy (I actually hadn’t even gone yet to a liturgical service at that point), then I said to myself “wait a minute, if the liturgy was good enough for C.S. Lewis, it can’t be that bad…” sure enough I fell into the peace of liturgical worship. My pastor once described the difference between contemporary worship and the liturgy like this: the first is like having the ark and the laity are swimming to get to it, while in the liturgy, God mercifully places us in the ark.
@barelyprotestant5365
3 жыл бұрын
@@pjwg AMEN!!!
@lorenzomurrone2430
3 жыл бұрын
Former Anglican, now Lutheran. Thank you a lot for this dialogue.
@Λουθηρανισμός
3 жыл бұрын
Lorenzo, Jordan here. Have you written about your conversion from Anglicanism to Lutheranism? I 'd be very interested to read such a text. What were the main reasons you leave Anglicanism? Thank you, my dear brother.
@lorenzomurrone2430
3 жыл бұрын
@@Λουθηρανισμός Hello brother. No, I haven't written about it, but there were many reasons. However the straw that broke the camel's back was when the vicar of the church here in Rome told Joshua and me that the only way we would get ordained was if we "expanded our horizons" (i.e., accepted liberal theology).
@Λουθηρανισμός
3 жыл бұрын
@@lorenzomurrone2430 I understand. This is what I believe about this church, that it is an umbrella term of many different opinions, here this, there the other (it depends of the local pastor and the local church culture). Thank you.
@lorenzomurrone2430
3 жыл бұрын
@@Λουθηρανισμός no worry :)
@BirdDogey1
2 жыл бұрын
@@Λουθηρανισμός wasn't the creation of the ACNA to provide a home for traditional/conservatives? I understand there are those within the ACNA that are trying to pull it to the left. Not so sure there aren't those within the LCMS trying to wrongly influence doctrine.
@SamuelMoerbe
Жыл бұрын
I knew Lutherans and Anglicans were similar, but this interview was pretty encouraging about their similarities. I know this gentleman is viewing the 39 Articles through a particular historical and theological context, but it still was super encouraging.
@marilynmelzian7370
5 ай бұрын
I also am a member of ACNA. The catechism, paragraph 127, states “The inward and spiritual grace is death to sin and new birth to righteousness, through union with Christ in his death and resurrection. I am born a sinner by nature, separated from God. But in Baptism, through faith in Christ and the gift of the Holy Spirit, I am made a member of Christ’s body and adopted as God’s child and heir.”
@barelyprotestant5365
3 жыл бұрын
Looking forward to this!
@kaiseruhl
3 жыл бұрын
I was going to tell you about this but I saw this comment lol
@ajiny.v1798
3 жыл бұрын
Anglican belief is real presence of christ in bread and wine or pneumatic presence view.?
@DeFyYing
2 жыл бұрын
@@ajiny.v1798 The Oxford Movement had ppl like Pusey uphold a corporeal Real Presence, but traditionally in Anglicanism a Reformed pneumatic presence was more common
@michaelmacdonald7748
2 жыл бұрын
This comparison sometimes feels like a Lutheran says, "We allow mystery to be mystery", to which the Anglican responds, "Well I wouldn't want to be that blunt..." (Only joking! What a wonderful and interesting conversation, as I'm becoming increasingly used to on this channel - God bless!)
@donaldjacobson4184
3 жыл бұрын
I was organist for the episcopal Sunday services for the seminary in Evanston IL for three years Joining the LCMS soon
@KevinG_765
3 жыл бұрын
I was Anglican for a few year. I left because it is very progressive here in Canada. I certainly miss parts of it, which is why I'm most interested in joining a confessional Lutheran church.
@timurermolenko2013
3 жыл бұрын
"Pro"-gressive
@KevinG_765
3 жыл бұрын
@@theodosios2615 Thanks for the comment brother, I have been looking into local LCC churches. I am interested in ACNA (I even got a copy of the prayer book which is very nice), but the closest parish is about an hour and a half away. God bless
@wesmorgan7729
3 жыл бұрын
@@KevinG_765 The ACNA is still in its infancy and doesn't have a lot of churches yet, however they have an earnest interest in church planting. You honestly can't go wrong with either an LCC or ACNA church.
As a Lutheran I really have trouble calling myself Protestant. I prefer reformed Catholic.
@alexwarstler9000
3 жыл бұрын
The problem that I see with modern American Anglicanism is that it is nothing and everything all at the same time.
@SvenskaKrig1709
3 жыл бұрын
I mean just from the fact that there are commentaries on the 39 Articles that try to make the compatible with both Reformed/Presbyterian style worship and others that say they are compatible with Roman Popery.
@tomstaples144
3 жыл бұрын
How can an Englishman forget John Wycliff as a seminary foundation of the Protestant Reformation?????????
@vngelicath1580
3 жыл бұрын
When you consider the Formularies, the 39 Articles isn't even the final word on the mode of presence debate. The Book of Homilies (I believe) states in more emphatic terms that it is a real [substantial] reality located in the bread and wine.. so even in the "confessions" it's more complicated than just saying "The Formularies are Reformed; end of story" And we need to not forget that even in the Lutheran tradition, we have Melancthon (who influenced Bucer and the English) -- and so even in our tradition the matter isn't as cut and dry, and we too have to contend with a trajectory of being somewhat ambiguous with nailing down the exact mode of presence, and having to be okay with some mystery.
@wesmorgan7729
3 жыл бұрын
I think the problem is the haziness with the language regarding Christ's presence in the 39 Articles.
@frederickjones532
6 ай бұрын
Is it not the case that at the Colloquy of Marburg Luther wrote on the table "Hoc est enim corpus meum?"
@christophercox8905
3 жыл бұрын
Dr. Cooper, It may help you to know that the Anglo-Catholic rejection of the Articles tends to be an emotional, knee-jerk reaction by clergy who are frustrated at the open prejudice they face from some Evangelicals, who loudly declare themselves Protestants even though they are post-Protestant in many ways. It isn't a thoughtful rejection of the Articles themselves, most of which are devoted to defending doctrines like the Trinity that no real Christian disagrees with. Also, the moderate tradition within Anglo-Catholicism, called "Prayer Book Catholicism," agrees with the Articles while insisting on high ceremonial. It is also the origin of the Gothic aesthetic, the hymnody and much of the art and literature that is most strongly associated with Anglicanism now. Representatives of this tradition include C.B. Moss, Percy Dearmer and Vernon Staley. Respectfully yours in Christ, Christopher Cox
@danielstoddart
3 жыл бұрын
Moss and Staley, in particular, are pretty terrible when it comes to theology proper. Moss was notoriously weak on the atonement, so I can't recommend his work. Staley was a Victorian-era churchman in the bag for the revisionism of the late-era Tractarians.
@DeFyYing
2 жыл бұрын
@Christopher Cox Churchmanship in Anglicanism interests me, if I was Anglican I’d probably either be Laudian High Church or a moderate prayer book Catholic
@BramptonAnglican
11 ай бұрын
Canadian Anglican here. Great video.
@catfinity8799
3 ай бұрын
What's interesting is that there's a rubric at the end of the 1662 Communion Liturgy which says, “the natural Body and Blood of our Saviour Christ are in Heaven, and not here; it being against the truth of Christ's natural Body to be at one time in more places than one.”
@cinnamondan4984
Жыл бұрын
As a Catholic I find Anglicanism comfortable. If I were not Catholic Anglicanism would be the place to hang my hat.
@Lepewhi
11 ай бұрын
Yes, if you are to be protestant, Anglicanism would be the way to go.
@TheNathanMac
Ай бұрын
I was brought up evangelical, and when I started studying church history, I saw how much we disagreed with and didn't have anyway of settling these disputes without appealing to tradition as well as scripture. I almost turned to Rome until I really started studying Anglicanism as well. I've been in an evangelical Anglican church at the moment, but also attend our local parish mass. And love it 😀
@lukewilliams8145
3 жыл бұрын
~ magisterial Protestantism intensifies ~
@sterlingpratt5802
3 жыл бұрын
Would love to see more of these.
@hexahexametermeter
3 ай бұрын
What I have always appreciated about Anglicanism is that it is more widely influenced by the greater church at large. Lutherans tend to focus on one man's writings.
@kevinashcroft2028
3 жыл бұрын
Very interesting channel ; On the question of Anglicanism , one tends to lean in favour of the Elizabethan settlement ; which presents a framework for order . From the passing of Elizabeth Tudor one finds a disintegration within the Anglican Communion as various situations arise .
@frederickjones532
6 ай бұрын
Does not D. McCulloch in "Europes' House Divided" maintain that of Elizabeth's bishops only one was Lutheran, the rest were Calvinists?
@isaachampson-thorpe2710
3 жыл бұрын
I think there is a slight omission of Reformed Evangelical Anglicans of the J.I Packer mold here that has formed much of ACNA, especially as that is the world that the REC started in in the 1870s, I think Bishop Cummins would be rather shocked to see the “rank Popery” that one would find in today’s REC.. like flowers and candles...
@wesmorgan7729
3 жыл бұрын
The REC confused me for this reason. Bishop Cummins seems very Reformed, yet modern REC Holy Eucharist services seem fairly high church to me.
@christophercox8905
3 жыл бұрын
@@wesmorgan7729 REC was founded in 1873 as a Low-Church breakoff group from the Episcopal Church. By the 1980s, some clergy were so low that they were even flirting with Dispensationalism, which infuriated many donors, as well as rank-and-file people who just wanted church the way they had always done church. After that, REC started moving to the middle, and it now has Low, Central and Anglo-Catholic parishes, the way things used to be.
@rantingcullinarian
3 жыл бұрын
Thought you were talking to Matt Walsh until I read the title. Hahah!
@DrJordanBCooper
3 жыл бұрын
Hah! I can see the resemblance.
@jnota1
3 жыл бұрын
@@DrJordanBCooper Matt Walsh is a Roman Catholic
@timurermolenko2013
3 жыл бұрын
I really like your idea of showing an alternative to Popery for those who seek a more traditional expression of faith!
@anonralph7081
3 жыл бұрын
Popery! Sectarian ignorant remark.
@areopilot300
3 жыл бұрын
@Dr. Jordan Cooper, what is your opinion on the Lutheran philosopher Paul Tillich and Christian Existentialism in general?
@frusia123
Ай бұрын
As someone who has had a bit to do with both Anglicanism and Lutheranism, I can tell just by looking at your faces who is who 😊 The Lutheran is the stern one, and the Anglican is the more relaxed one. Sorry, didn't mean to judge by the appearance, but I thought it was funny.
@salvificdeputy3881
3 жыл бұрын
amazing I had a question for you Dr cooper you probably heard these million of time but is it trough that martin luther wanted to remove james 2 or he just though it was a catholic forgeries?
@jenex5608
2 жыл бұрын
That's a myth he never wanted to remove James 2. He had a subjective opinion on it he taught it wasn't written by the Apostle James. Ultimately he accepted it as Canon.
@joseortegabeede8233
10 ай бұрын
My wish is for future unity between conservative lutherans and conservative anglicans. The main issue I see at the moment is that the overwhelming majority of conservative anglican denominations left the woke anglican denominations too late, and they are still working with the bloat and aftermath of false doctrine in the church. This can be very confusing to new converts. This, of course, also happens in some lutheran circles, but many of their groups have been solid since the 19th century.
@donaldjacobson4184
3 жыл бұрын
Curious how much this effects the parishioners
@internetenjoyer1044
3 жыл бұрын
The interesting thing about anglican sacramentology is that there is on the one hand, and Reformed restriction of the dominacal sacraments to just Batpism and the Lord's Supper, but at the same time the other five "commonly called" sacraments aren't removed from church practice, with the Homilies being fairly approving of them, and the general confession remains in the Communion liturgy, with auricular confession tucked away in the visitation of the sick What's more, the rubrics for the baptism rite clearly state at the end "this child is now regenerate", so I can't see how that isn't Lutheran, while the eucharistic theology gives some broad leniency but n=denying fully fledged lutheranism, while also denying symbolism or parrallelism: "the body of Christ is given, taken and eaten in the Lord's Supper".
@BibleFanatics
2 жыл бұрын
The book of common prayer was influenced by Lutherans. It was influenced by Lutheransim in the baptismal liturgy, but it was influenced by the reformed tradition in the Lord's supper. That's what makes it unique. Anglincanism is really a balance between Lutheranism and the Reformed. Not Catholism and the Reformed.
@alexwarstler9000
3 жыл бұрын
It would be so cool for you to get Gerald McDermott on the show.
@frusia123
Ай бұрын
With regards to the ordination of women issue. When Jesus speaks about men leaving their wives, and he speaks specifically to men, and doesn't mention women, do we assume that therefore it doesn't apply to women and they're ok to leave their husbands? Or do we assume it applies to the whole human kind? If women are human enough to be obligated by the commandments given to humans, what makes women excluded from the church functions?
@stephennass3840
9 күн бұрын
When we dont have a clear answer, we err to Tradition. This is the way it has worked since before Jesus was born (with Rabbis), and he didn't change it for his Church. Also, look at the modern female pastors at non-traditional Anglican churches: many of them are literally Marxists and they are undermining many other aspects of their churches.
@ThomasCranmer1959
10 ай бұрын
So the sacraments are more important than Sola Scriptura or even justification by faith alone? What about the 5 solas????
@frederickjones532
4 ай бұрын
Did not the Porvoo Declaration equate Lutheran and Anglican Holy Orders?
@jb_0029
3 жыл бұрын
Call out the sin and pluck brands from the fire :(
@clivejames5058
Жыл бұрын
Surely a gay Christian is a dichotomy? (an active one, that is)
@peacengrease3901
3 жыл бұрын
With sympathy and respect toward Christians who struggle against same sex attraction, the ACNA bishops made the right choice on this one and thereby avoided the proverbial slippery slope away from the truth that would have ensued.
@bullphrogva1804
3 жыл бұрын
Can you flush out 'Classical Protestantism' a bit
@nickcrayne6702
23 күн бұрын
This is extremely broad. It's just feels confused.
@grahamebennett3875
2 жыл бұрын
Where is the scriptural basis for baptismal regeneration? It is not in scripture.
@jeffrhyne8788
3 ай бұрын
Titus 3 verse 5 may be helpful
@ronaldfelix1000
3 жыл бұрын
You to look like you are cousins.
@wesmorgan7729
3 жыл бұрын
The video I've been waiting for haha, thanks Drs. Cooper and Parker! Do you plan on doing a reflection-type video where you compare and contrast Anglicanism and Lutheranism, or talk about your reasons for not being Anglican?
@boastonlyinthecross
3 жыл бұрын
I greatly appreciate the spirit of excellence with which Dr Cooper presents his content and that most definitely includes the wardrobe choices. My 21 year old son who is currently a political science major and sophomore at Hillsdale College, is an avid bow tie and dress suit wearer. It exudes a level of care that makes a person’s message much more easily received and gives the audience a feeling that the person has invested time and thoughtfulness into the content. Thank you for all you do, Dr Cooper!
@ThomasCranmer1959
10 ай бұрын
The baptismal regeneration argument is based on the surety of the parents and God parents. The Catechism in the 1662 teaches that the sacrament of baptism of infants is based on the faith of the parents. Word and sacrament cannot be divorced from the written and rational word of God. 2 Peter 3:18.
@StevenKozarMessedUpChurch
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks, gentlemen! Very interesting to hear from an Anglican brother.
@poesia-com-cafeina
3 жыл бұрын
I was really looking forward to learning about Anglicanism but man....you picked the wrong guy. He is obviously not a speaker, he can barely get a sentence out.
@DeFyYing
2 жыл бұрын
In his defense, he made a lot of good points regarding churchmanship, the Laudian caroline divines and the Oxford Movement. Maybe he was just nervous
@anttisaarilahti3091
2 жыл бұрын
I got the feeling that he was trying to be considerate towards those within his own denomination who might hold different views on the discussed topics. Which is understandable, really, given that there *is* a lot of doctrinal disunity in the ACNA and yet he was made to represent or at least describe the views of "Anglicanism" in general in this interview. Not an easy job. That said, it would have been better if he had just given clear answers and then qualified the churchmanship to which they tend to apply. As it is, this interview reminded me of a book called "What Anglicans Believe" by Samuel Wells which did not really say very much about what Anglicans do believe.
@Athabrose
3 жыл бұрын
This was great! Do a part 2 if possible.
@marilynmelzian7370
5 ай бұрын
The ACNA catechism, paragraphs 132 and 133 unholy, communion, state that “The visible sign is bread and wine, which Christ commands us to receive.” “The inward gift signified is the body and blood of Christ, which are truly taken and received in the Lord’s Supper by faith.”
@martianuslucianus4485
2 жыл бұрын
Thoughts on the Oxford Movement and the Tractarians? I was curious about the branch theory and why those 19th century Anglican Churchmen excluded Lutheranism?
@frederickjones532
6 ай бұрын
Newman rejected Lutheran Orders. See Sheridan Gilley "Newman" on the Jerusalem Bishop controversy.
@Zonie-xv9ep
4 ай бұрын
Seems to me that anyone could join Anglicanism under some form and essentially keep the beliefs they currently hold.
@Yaboiii_123
2 жыл бұрын
J. I. Packer's essay on baptism and regeneration would be a really interesting statement from the ACNA to bring into this discussion.
@jamessheffield4173
3 жыл бұрын
What is your opinion of Richard Hooker? Of the Laws of Ecclesiastical Polity: the self-understanding of the Church of England and its descendants in the worldwide Anglican Communion. Its great human interest lies in its author's personal engagement with the most divisive religious and political issues of his day. But the depth of Hooker's treatment of these issues and the extraordinary range of sources he brings to bear on them makes the Laws a book not only for its own age but for any time when human reason and the human spirit seek coherence. Amazon Books
@Ozgipsy
4 ай бұрын
Well, I ❤️KZitem. 👍
@paulsmith3966
4 ай бұрын
As an English Anglican I am surprised that in the nineteenth century the C of E featured Calvinist Evangelicals but lost sight of Lutheraism. (Even Archbishop Michael Ramsey admitted the Oxford Movement was woefully ignorant of Luther)... All the more surprising since Prince Albert was Lutheran.
@toddvoss52
3 жыл бұрын
Good video and charitable discussion. Wonder if the same could be done with a representative (preferably Bishop Lopes) of the ordinariate of the chair of St. Peter.
@ThomasCranmer1959
10 ай бұрын
Griffith-Thomas was a dispensationalist.
@ThomasCranmer1959
10 ай бұрын
Clergy dissenters get defrocked.
@ThomasCranmer1959
10 ай бұрын
The ACNA IS ANGLO-PAPIST.
@elitecaosuk3141
3 жыл бұрын
I appreciate this discussion but it seems quite clear that Dr. Eric Parker interprets the formularies in light of the post 1660 Church of England rather than in the context they were written in, which I guess is the Laudian legacy. In doing so there seems to be a portrayal of far more agreement between Lutherans and Anglicans than there actually is. It would be interesting to see an interview with a Reformed Anglican Priest.
@internetenjoyer1044
2 жыл бұрын
well, the Edwardian regime, the Elizabethan regime, the resotration regime, are all parts of history and all legitimate examples of the English Churches authority. But we get our official formularies set out in their final form in the restoration church, so it does make sense to interpret them in that light
@lc-mschristian5717
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this video.
@ThomasCranmer1959
10 ай бұрын
You have to be Reformed Anglican to properly affirm the 39 Articles. The Reformed Episcopal Church went Anglo-Papist.
@sergiomendoza9932
3 жыл бұрын
Was excited to listen to this since I'm new to the ACNA. Sadly the interviewee was long winded when giving his answers. Was hard trying to track him because he was bringing up sub topics within his answer to the baptismal regeneration question and Lords supper. I understand the desire to be accurate with explaining the context but I think the flow would have been better if he gave a simple answer, share the reasoning and context after.
@jesussaves2642
2 жыл бұрын
I agree.
@ThomasCranmer1959
10 ай бұрын
Article 17 does mention reprobation. This guy is typical of Anglo-Papists. Packer compromised with the papists on justification. and I'm willing to bet this guy does, too.
@DrGero15
4 ай бұрын
Where? XVII - OF PREDESTINATION AND ELECTION Predestination to Life is the everlasting purpose of God, whereby (before the foundations of the world were laid) he hath constantly decreed by his counsel secret to us, to deliver from curse and damnation those whom he hath chosen in Christ out of mankind, and to bring them by Christ to everlasting salvation, as vessels made to honour. Wherefore, they which be endued with so excellent a benefit of God be called according to God’s purpose by his Spirit working in due season: they through Grace obey the calling: they be justified freely: they be made sons of God by adoption: they be made like the image of his only-begotten Son Jesus Christ: they walk religiously in good works, and at length, by God’s mercy, they attain to everlasting felicity. As the godly consideration of Predestination, and our Election in Christ, is full of sweet, pleasant, and unspeakable comfort to godly persons, and such as feel in themselves the working of the Spirit of Christ, mortifying the works of the flesh, and their earthly members, and drawing up their mind to high and heavenly things, as well because it doth greatly establish and confirm their faith of eternal Salvation to be enjoyed through Christ, as because it doth fervently kindle their love towards God: So, for curious and carnal persons, lacking the Spirit of Christ, to have continually before their eyes the sentence of God’s Predestination, is a most dangerous downfall, whereby the Devil doth thrust them either into desperation, or into wretchlessness of most unclean living, no less perilous than desperation. Furthermore, we must receive God’s promises in such wise, as they be generally set forth to us in holy Scripture: and, in our doings, that Will of God is to be followed, which we have expressly declared unto us in the Word of God.
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