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@be1tube
3 жыл бұрын
I've seen several quotations from "Rumi" and always wondered how they came from a devout Muslim. This makes it so clear. I especially enjoyed your side-by-side presentation. It's something I couldn't have spent the time to do, but now I am richer because of your doing it.
@DougsDharma
3 жыл бұрын
My pleasure Eric, glad you found it interesting.
@AngieF8
2 жыл бұрын
But Sufis are non-dual Muslim, mystical Muslims.
@freethinker730
2 жыл бұрын
i am a persian , speaker , my English is not very well . i write her a persian poem from Rumi , and try to translat . it seems to mi very strange if Rumi was really a muslim . چه تدبیر ای مسلمانان که من خودرا نمیدانم means : what a solution you have for mi , oh muslim , that i do not regognize my self . نه ترسا و یهودم من نه گبرم نه مسلمانم i am not a christian , not a jew not a muslim , not , a zorowastrian . نه شرقی ام نه غربی ام نه بری ام نه بهری ام i am not from the East nor from the west , not from the erth nor from the sea . مکانم لامکان باشد نشانم بی نشان باشد my place is from non place . my symbol is non symbol . نه بادم نه از خاکم نه آب ام نه از آتش i am not from erth nor from water not from wind , not from Fire . دویی را چون رها کردم دو عالم را یکی دیدم یکی بینم یکی جویم یکی دانم یکی خوانم since i have left Dualism , i see the tow world as one . i see oneness , i follow onness , i know only one , i call only one . ( i tried my best to translate ) may be you can find it with more accurate translation .
@milascave2
Жыл бұрын
Sufi's are Muslims, but they are very different from many other forms of it. That said, apparently, they are not as different as we have been led to believe. The founder of Wahabist Sunni Islam did not care for them at all, but they were and are still Muslims. But, the shrines of Sufi saints in India were visited by Muslims, Christians, and Hindus alike. Clearly, their ideas could be appreciated by people who were not Muslims, though they themselves w ere.
@restlez2002
Жыл бұрын
@@freethinker730 The oneness idea in beliefs can be interpreted differently I suppose. To reunite again with the divine, suggesting that human beings are like droplets that eventually make their way back to the ocean is one end. The other is that we are expressions of the divine that it is in each of us to be recognised and honored. I am more interested in how oneness could also be interpreted with the perspective of the non-self, to give up control, wants, desire.
@SoyElta
3 жыл бұрын
Feelings coming to move through; In Spanish when you ask a child what is wrong or what they are feeling you say "que te pasa" literally "what is passing you." It implies that whatever is happening to you is temporary. I live in the U.S. and I am teaching my daughter to speak the four big Western European Latin Languages. It makes me think about the nature and limitations of translations like never before.
@DougsDharma
3 жыл бұрын
That's great, knowing other languages is such a gift.
@galdikla1
3 жыл бұрын
What a gem this channel is for me. Thank you!
@DougsDharma
3 жыл бұрын
You're very welcome, my pleasure!
@BNSFGuy4723
3 жыл бұрын
As a Buddhist descended of Albanian Sufis, I always enjoy reading Rumi and his poetry. Sufi Islam honestly brought me to Buddhism and I really do think there are many religions out there who practice the Dharma without even knowing it
@DougsDharma
3 жыл бұрын
Yes that makes a lot of sense! 😄
@davidjohnzenocollins
3 жыл бұрын
Or maybe Buddhists are practicing other religions, and don't even know it. 😊
@joem1152
3 жыл бұрын
I also thought this many times because of how Buddha is described as “Setting in Motion the Dharma Wheel” and how it is said that the Dharma adapts and changes based on the cultures that come in contact with it, or the levels of understanding
@osanda2313
3 жыл бұрын
Sufis are very peaceful and spiritual. Because of that mainstream muslims have targeted attacks on this group. In fact, Sufism is deep mysticism in Islam. I think Sufis also have the ability to get into jhanas.
@MrTetsukobu
2 жыл бұрын
@@osanda2313 as a long term Sufi I agree with your statement.
@Teeba_Syed
Жыл бұрын
THANK YOU SO MUCH DEAR. I was translating Guest House in Urdu but I was not feeling complete while doing so. After so many searches for persian script of this poem, I found nothing. Your video cleared me. Though I still like this poem. But Thank God I yet not post it with the name Rumi. Now I will post with facts your provided. Love and prayers from Pakistan.
@DougsDharma
Жыл бұрын
Happy to help! 🙏😊
@bijanbahmani3794
3 жыл бұрын
As an Iranian I am so happy the word is getting out on this. I was puzzled when I first saw "Rumi" poems in english. I feel same has been done to some extent with Hafiz in English. It feels like opertunism and Orientalism as Edward Saeed theorized.
@DougsDharma
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah I'm not sure of the reasons for it but it's strange.
@asia9188
3 жыл бұрын
Love from Malaysia ❤️
@DougsDharma
3 жыл бұрын
🙏🙂
@shahesfelazi8549
3 жыл бұрын
Love from a Buddhist Muslim from Malaysia too!
@andrew7008
3 жыл бұрын
I appreciate you as always, Doug! Cheers!
@DougsDharma
3 жыл бұрын
Very kind of you Andrew! 🙏😊
@darlenevelez4311
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for this wonderful talk. I have long admired these "translations" by Coleman Barks. It is good to have this background information. Could you recommend any books I could read on the subject of translations. I've also read many "translations" of Hafiz. They are delightful, but I'd like to read them with this kind of perspective.
@DougsDharma
3 жыл бұрын
That's a great question Darlene, unfortunately I don't know of any books on the subject of translations generally. What happened in this case is that I tried to look for a few translations of Rumi to get a better picture for what the poem said. I couldn't find any other translations of it, and realized that in fact it wasn't really a poem by him but rather by Coleman Barks interpreting Rumi.
@jjporcell
2 жыл бұрын
Very well done! Thank you Doug!
@DougsDharma
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you kindly!
@denizekener2075
2 жыл бұрын
Rumi was born in Afghanistan and moved to Anatolia. The Persian language was the common language of the scholars artists at that era in history. His father was a great scholar as was himself so we know that he was a very well educated person. I think it is very possible that he knew a great deal about buddhism as well. In Masnawi there are many references to myths and stories from all over the known world. One thing to keep in mind is that, he lived along the silk road. Travelers and merchants from China to Europe was very common. The 'guest house' is a very common anology in our part of the world. Therefore I think the similarities are coincidences. However as with all great spiritual traditions sufis and buddhists, share a great deal. For me, this is proof that all beings are created as one , regardless of how we define ourselves. Thank you for the great video Doug...
@DougsDharma
2 жыл бұрын
Great, thanks for the additional information Deniz! 🙏
@xiaomaozen
3 жыл бұрын
Wonderful deconstruction, Doug! I agree with you: There's no problem with doing what Barks did. But one should not sell it as a translation. "Inspired by Rumi" would be, in my humble opinion, an absolutely clear and sincere way to mark works like Barks' ones. Anyway, your "German thoroughness" is stunning, Doug! 😻😂😊🙏🏻
@DougsDharma
3 жыл бұрын
😄My pleasure xiao mao! Yes, "Inspired by Rumi" would be a much better way to put it.
@lillpoetboy
3 жыл бұрын
Love from Alaska, guess it's time to be a patreon member today
@DougsDharma
3 жыл бұрын
That would be great! Nice to have you with us from Alaska, I'd love to go there someday!
@hfelippejr
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks, Doug. I don't think I would have taken the time to research the history behind this particular poem. I still enjoy Barks's framing of it, but it's good to know that it's just that: a framing.
@DougsDharma
3 жыл бұрын
Right, I think many folks find Barks's work inspirational.
@M4evermore
Жыл бұрын
Doug - folks have probably pointed out, you added the word "the" before "beyond". Having not yet listened to your translation explanation, I will say the addition "the" creates for me an extra presence to the "beyond" so as to locate it in a power, belief, or other externality as opposed to the simple "beyond" as in "beyond the pale" or comprehension. That is the realm of the unknown. Make sense?
@DougsDharma
Жыл бұрын
Maybe so, though that is from Barks's poem rather than Rumi's. Perhaps the most salient part of Rumi's poem, the one that I would assume Barks was aiming at, reads in translation: "It violently sweeps thy house clear of (all) else, in order that new joy from the source of good may enter in." Assuming this is an adequate rendering of the Persian, it does include at "the" ("the source of good"). FWIW!
@M4evermore
Жыл бұрын
I watched your whole video - excellent, thank you! I look forward to viewing more. Cheers!
@waitingforparts57
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you Doug for stepping outside the usually Buddhist boundaries to talk about Rumi. I have heard a few of his writings spoken in spiritual talks and do not know much about him otherwise. I will say I find many secular talks leave out references to spirits and afterlife when quoting the sayings of Buddhist writings. It seems many people now a days do not want to talk about that part of Buddhist thought. Stay safe and well
@DougsDharma
3 жыл бұрын
Yes, my own approach to Buddhist practice is secular as well, though I do discuss more traditional aspects of Buddhism in my videos. 🙏
@traybae2_
3 жыл бұрын
It is my understanding that the Buddhist didn’t speak of God. That he would avoid the topic saying that it is irrelevant to reach Nirvana. We become so focused on the supernatural that we do not follow the teachings,. The five precepts are more pertinent to living a compassionate awakened life
@RizkyRian816
5 күн бұрын
Thank you very much
@DougsDharma
4 күн бұрын
You are welcome!
@joem1152
3 жыл бұрын
In my Tibetan Buddhist books they frequently say Buddha is source of blessings, and practicing Dharma brings realizations- I have been in a spiritual crisis of sorts for years after some experiences and ironically discovering Islam and the Quran. As a practicing Buddhist for 17 years prior to this I would encourage all Buddhists to read the Quran and keep and open mind, remember Buddha saying find out truth for yourself, and see what you find. I think you will be very surprised. Also remember Dhammapada ch 21 verse 294-295 when encountering talk of “striking necks” in the Quran. In my opinion this is obviously lost in translation which would be controversial to Muslims but my Buddhist background points me to other ideas which doesn’t threaten my belief system. This being said the Quran DID bring up questions that Buddha and Buddhism couldn’t answer for me. Quran frequently says if Allah wills something for you there is nothing or no one that can stop it and if Allah doesn’t will something there is nothing or no one that could bring this about- to me this sounds very similar to Buddha speaking about Karma? So a question I would ask of you, Do you consider Buddha as a source of good and blessings or would you consider the Dharma as a source of good and blessings? Or does the interrelatedness make the answer “both”? I have many more ideas I would share if you have any questions. Thank you
@DougsDharma
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for your comment Joe, as to your question, I'll be having a video on that topic soon ...! 🙂
@laneh1968
3 жыл бұрын
There is a BBC show years ago called “was Jesus a Buddhist”. Have you ever watched and if so, what are your thoughts? It’s available on KZitem if anyone was interested in watching it.
@DougsDharma
3 жыл бұрын
I haven't seen it.
@richardbaez566
3 жыл бұрын
Hi, Doug I was wondering if you had any thoughts on social media as it relates to the path. I quit all social media recently and feel much better, maybe this is something we should all consider?
@DougsDharma
3 жыл бұрын
I think that depends on our individual paths and what we feel is healthy for us personally. I make use of social media in producing these dharma talks, and keep up with folks that way. That said, there is a lot I won't get involved with, and many people I know reject them.
@WJSpies
2 жыл бұрын
My humble thoughts: Fictionalizing certain truisms often emphasizes the truth wanting to express itself in a slightly or altogether different context. It's what sits at the heart of all metaphor and also inside many many parables of Jesus, also (if I may) many of the extended metaphors and discourses which the Buddha chose to use, in his instructions and focus directed teachings. It's something that resides at the core - if you will - of zen koans and so many zen koan stories. The truth an innocent bystander as it were, but nonetheless still present - albeit shifted somewhat to allow it to make certain or more sense somewhere else. What Colman Barks had composed was what poets often call and "found poem." note: I once composed a poem almost entirely word for word from a newspaper article, by merely reshaping the sentence structure, using new punctuation and new line break construction. I showed it to a woman poet I knew who had read the same newspaper piece. She looked stunned a little, then looked at me directly and told me I had constructed what's called a "found poem" - I had no idea! It simply struck me very hard what a great poem it might make, that's all. Maybe Coleman Barks while studying has been hit with the same concept. I love your videos they are so instructional!
@DougsDharma
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks W. J.! Yes, Colman Barks definitely created poetry, it's just that if we are looking for Rumi, we don't find so much of him in Barks. 😊
@bahadursunny1674
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for clearing it up......
@DougsDharma
2 жыл бұрын
Happy to help!
@sowmindful1501
3 жыл бұрын
Hello, I’m new to your channel, and had a question if you don’t mind sharing insight. I’ve recently considered having a go, at trying to get a Bachelors of Science in Accounting. I find the art of keeping track of expenses to be mindful, and a nice challenge. But one challenge I’m struggling with, is how to overcome, or possibly avoid working with companies who sole purpose it to only grow at any cost? I’ve made myself more informed on the impact that we humans are having on the planet, and see that we sometimes don’t want nature/animals/insects to live next to us in a somewhat harmony. Do you have any thoughts on this matter? Thank you for much for your time. 🙏
@DougsDharma
3 жыл бұрын
That's a tough question. I've done past videos on the Buddha's thoughts on right livelihood: kzitem.info/news/bejne/xYmFzot9oKN-inY , as well as a couple of courses over at onlinedharma.org/ that might be useful (the ones on the Eightfold Spiral Path and Work, Money, and Pleasure). But at the end of the day it's your own intentions that matter most.
@nas2734
3 жыл бұрын
Rumis work can be compared to that of Sufism an Islamic sect which focuses upon spirituality, great video! Wishing all the best for this KZitem channel!
@DougsDharma
3 жыл бұрын
Yes thanks Ns! 🙏😊
@MundaSquire
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you Doug. Translations, of course, are always in some way a kind of reinterpretation and the intention of that translator is something to consider. But I agree with you. It seems Coleman Barks should have some qualifier as to authorship and not use "Rumi" as the author. Maybe "a poem inspired by Rumi" would have been more accurate, and assuredly more honest.
@DougsDharma
3 жыл бұрын
Yes I think so too, thanks Munda.
@worldofblacksea
3 жыл бұрын
This was very helpfull, thank you. To be honest I really lost my respect for Barks work after this. Will look it up other translations. But besides that, I think is important to point out the similarity of "totality and emptness". The theology of sufism (see also Abn Arabi). Is more than than regular Islamism, but a very sofiaticated conceptual análises after much meditation. we could understand the ideia of gest as the ONE/ALL (neo-platonism). Very interesting to note also the similarity of Vetanta, Minster Ekhart in this.
@DougsDharma
3 жыл бұрын
Yes at a certain level of discourse there are lots of similarities between such beliefs.
@joem1152
3 жыл бұрын
Yes just like all those so called Buddha quote memes that now exist some of which weren’t spoken by the Buddha, the wisdom in them may stand on its own but to attribute it to someone falsely makes discerning nuances between philosophies confusing to say the least!
@DougsDharma
3 жыл бұрын
Exactly! I have a past video on "real" Buddha quotes if you haven't seen it: kzitem.info/news/bejne/pGyBuaF9nJuGoX4 😊
@joem1152
3 жыл бұрын
@@DougsDharma thank you love your videos!
@JustTapes_
3 жыл бұрын
Please make a video on Acting and Music(Entertainment industry).I read somewhere that the buddha said that Actors may get a bad rebirth. Is it that Acting is bad or is it the state of mind associated with it or what makes a profession as such bad? Thank you for your help and guidance
@DougsDharma
3 жыл бұрын
Yes I think I discussed this a bit in my video on Right Livelihood: kzitem.info/news/bejne/xYmFzot9oKN-inY , as well as in my course on the Eightfold Spiral Path: onlinedharma.org/p/ascent-towards-freedom
@Sage_1230
Жыл бұрын
🙏🏽
@DougsDharma
Жыл бұрын
🙏😊
@earthcare6291
3 жыл бұрын
Rumi is talking about resilience; no hardship is permanent such that with every hardship comes ease (Quran 94:5-6)! Scattered yellow leaves in the fall is an indication of wholesome green leaves in another season. So, the sorrow and grief caused by any hardship must be the slave of true believers and not controlling the person. Just do not give up!
@DougsDharma
3 жыл бұрын
Great, thanks Earth Care.
@jupiterinaries6150
3 жыл бұрын
Although there isn't a poem by Rumi so-named, the words were composed by Rumi.
@DougsDharma
3 жыл бұрын
Yes, maybe you could think of it that way. Though they wouldn't necessarily have had the same meaning to him (in his poetry) as they do to us in that form.
@sonamtshering194
3 жыл бұрын
Persia did have links to Buddhism in the ancient times, so if Rumi did come across the sutta maybe he didn't know that it was Buddhist
@DougsDharma
3 жыл бұрын
Yes, it's probably impossible to say for sure.
@Yakuo
3 жыл бұрын
🕉🙏🌀
@DougsDharma
3 жыл бұрын
🙏😊
@tainaferreira3719
3 жыл бұрын
São muitos conteúdos bons em inglês, pena ainda não estou aprendendo inglês. Em breve de certo.
@osanda2313
3 жыл бұрын
I think Rumi is a very conscious person from a Sufi background. I think these Sufis also know the technique to tap into jhanas. So, he could have extracted these universal thoughts.
@DougsDharma
3 жыл бұрын
It's possible, I don't know enough about Sufism or its practices to be sure.
@osanda2313
3 жыл бұрын
@@DougsDharma I also don't know. But their branch of Islam is very peaceful and it's deep mysticism in Islam, I guess.
@jjjos
Жыл бұрын
Well I’m just getting aquatinted with Rumi’s poetry and liked this one. Now I feel cheated and pretty pissed off quite frankly, it’s a real liberty to extract samples and create a fictional translation. Who does this guy think he is fudging and pillaging these scholars works ffs. Good that at least you’ve exposed him. I mean it’s just plainly taking the piss.
@DougsDharma
Жыл бұрын
Yes, well to be fair it wasn't me who exposed him; I'm relying on a lot of work from other folks. 🙏
@jjjos
Жыл бұрын
@@DougsDharma You’re very humble. It was an excellent and very well presented video. I enjoyed it immensely, really interesting. I’m new to poetry, do you recommend any other poets? I’m looking for spiritual, non dual or even Christian mystic’s works. Sorry, I don’t wish to burden you, just wondered as you are obviously very well informed and intelligent. Thanks. Great vid, but was a let down in a way, although a perfectly valid poem in it’s own right. It made me think of the bible, which was written many years after the death of Jesus. You have to wonder, how accurate these texts are, as people are so prone to manipulate for self gain. And why the 18 missing years of his life? Although ‘the truth is the truth’ so we can all relate to the fundamental messages inferred in parables such as ‘the prodigal son’ but I’m not well versed with your areas of interest so this may be completely off track to ask you about. I very much like this Rumi poem … can I be reassured this is really the writing of Rumi would you say? .. thanks again “I said: what about my eyes? He said: Keep them on the road. I said: What about my passion? He said: Keep it burning. I said: What about my heart? He said: Tell me what you hold inside it? I said: Pain and sorrow. He said: Stay with it. The wound is the place where the Light enters you.”
@tainaferreira3719
3 жыл бұрын
São muitos conteúdos bons em inglês é uma pena que ainda não estou aprendendo inglês. Em breve de certo.
@DougsDharma
3 жыл бұрын
I hope you will learn it soon! I know some Spanish but unfortunately no Portuguese. 🙏🙂
@tainaferreira3719
3 жыл бұрын
@@DougsDharma Spanish is a beautiful language; Thanks!!😊 I wish you success!🦅🦉
@alamin-fr8rc
4 ай бұрын
There is a rich body of work by Sufi Muslims who have a deep grasp of the spiritual message of the Holy Prophet. I have found many parallels in the mystical traditions of Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism. Frankly it seems futile and a waste of energy to look for who said what and where they got it. The focus should be on the Message and the one and only source ie the Creator through his many thousands of Messengers the principal among them being Buddha, Krishna, Moses, Christ and Mohammed and others that were sent to every people in every corner of the earth. There are bound to be similarities and crossovers since they are all saying the same thing when the spiritual essence is being sought for and translated.
@michaeldowd5545
Жыл бұрын
Rumi was born in Afghanistan and Afghanistan has an amazing Buddhist history, and Muslim invaders in Afghanistan would have contacted these invaders
@DougsDharma
Жыл бұрын
I wonder if this has been researched ... 😊
@jamescicero776
3 жыл бұрын
In my opinion, Coleman Barks is a plagiarist, or simply a thief. He's using Rumi's name and material for his own profit. I like you and your show/channel, but I'm surprised that you would accept this practice and give him credit. I am a Buddhist, and although I"m just a beginner, I don't think what you and Coleman Barks is doing is right
@DougsDharma
3 жыл бұрын
I'm not sure what you mean James.
@laneh1968
3 жыл бұрын
I’m not sure that plagiarism is the right word. It is all Rumi’s writings and he is given credit as the author. Doug only points out that Coleman Barks took liberty to piece together Rumi’s own words. Knowing the poem is pieced together from Rumi’s poem makes it no less Rumi’s . It can still be enjoyed but in a more educated light, thanks to Doug.
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