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@keithlamb324
2 жыл бұрын
James, as always great detail! I have to say, up until recently I’ve run my 4” dust collection system through PVC pipe then through some metal blast gates to short 4” flex hoses to the machines. I seldom got shocks as I didn’t really need to handle the flex hose or pipe during normal operation. If I switch from machine to machine with the blast gates the blower is almost always shut off as it’s just me not a production facility. I recently upgraded my DC on my CNC to 4” and decided to plumb my PVC pipe further across the shop ceiling and drop a 4” flex hose to the CNC. When I did I was getting shocks non stop and killing my CNC controller mid carve a few times. I installed Ferrite Ring Cores on most of my CNC cables and solved loosing carves but it did nothing about the shocks I was getting! I skeptically decided to do something similar to what you show in this video and to my happy amazement NO MORE shocks! So for the folks that say grounding PVC pipe is not going to help, I say, oh yes it certainly does! I never once thought my shop was going to blow up but the never ending “ZAPS” were getting, well, very annoying! Thanks again for your informative, clear and valuable videos!
@solitudewoodworking
5 ай бұрын
Came here looking for this exact comment. Similar setup. I have a Clearvue DC with 6" main and 4" to all tools, including my CNC. I've had shocks completely crashed the CNC and laptop too many times. I'm doing this tonight.
@TheCyberMantis
2 жыл бұрын
"Who has an extra outlet in their shop anyway". ( Truer words, were never spoken. )
@scottwillis5434
2 жыл бұрын
Those of us who went to some extra trouble putting in extra circuits, more outlets, outlet strips, etc.
@Peter-e9j2d
6 ай бұрын
23 outlets with two spots each to be exact! 🤪
@patrickd9551
2 ай бұрын
Well I have a grounding rod in my shop, if that is what you are asking 🤣 Explanation: I built my shed against my house, next to the meter cabinet and the grounding rod was just there where I wanted my floor. So now I have a hatch in my floor so I can have access to my grounding rod and the rain water sewer trap.
@pennyroyal3813
2 жыл бұрын
"Smarter than the people on the internet." That's quite the low bar James.
@Andy-ue3dv
Жыл бұрын
😂😂😂
@jacobschweitzer2954
Жыл бұрын
So your showing us stuff that DOES NOT need to be completed. Correct?
@msmith3537
2 жыл бұрын
Well, I am in HVAC distribution and was able to get metal spiral duct. It was still expensive but it addresses any static charge concerns. Dust collection has changed my shop experience. I even bought a Stealth mask and extra filters. I have learned a lot from this channel!
@BlakePizzey
2 жыл бұрын
Same here but with all the shortages we are experiencing with PVC pipe it was actually cheaper to get spiral sheet metal ducting.
@canoetipper019
2 жыл бұрын
Static electricity can be an issue for people with some medical implants. I had an LVAD (Left Ventricular Assist Device) for about a year and a half. I wasn't supposed to use vacuum cleaners or unload a clothes drier because a static discharge could affect the controls. So this may be another reason the ground your system.
@wernerviehhauser94
2 жыл бұрын
In that case, I would to use metal ducts right away. Plastic will generate charge, grounded or not, while a grounded metal duct will not generate charge in the first place.
@cuebj
2 жыл бұрын
Use metal ducts. No grounding of plastic will eliminate static
@canoetipper019
2 жыл бұрын
@@wernerviehhauser94 yeah...not a problem as I had a heart transplant nd no longer have to deal with living on batteries for the LVAD. I used to joke about being like my cordless drill and ran on Liithium Ion batteries...lol.
@scotttovey
2 жыл бұрын
There is no need to prevent static from generating. Electricity flows in the direction of least resistance. Static will therefore, flow to ground before it flows to the human body as the human body has more resistance than ground. If however, you happen to be standing in water; you're libel to get a wake up call.
@wernerviehhauser94
2 жыл бұрын
@@scotttovey Sorry to break this to you, but in no known part of the universe has it ever been observed that current only flows along the path of least resistance. Might I recommend a read of Horowitz-Hill before you continue to contradict any and all resistor network calculations that have been done since Georg Simon Ohm?
@barnowl6807
2 жыл бұрын
My first system was 4" plastic pipe sprayed with conductive paint. You can get carbon, copper, nickel, or silver.( Right). It doesn't take a good conductor like copper to drain the very low current static charge, so the paint works fine. As long as the path is continuous and unbroken to ground it works. If you are familiar with electronic work you probably know that the "static dissipative mats" have resistivities in the thousands of meg ohm range. Quite effective at getting rid of static but no danger of conducting dangerous levels of current. I make two stripes down the length of the pipes on opposite sides. Covering the pipe will waste paint. Some types of paint will tend to flake off the plastic eventually so keep extra around for touch up. Wrap a few turns of small wire around the pipe near the ground point and spray over it and the paint for solid contact. This probably won't work for flex pipe.
@The_Ol_Bizzaroo
2 жыл бұрын
I've never been concerned about a static-dust explosion in my small shop, but I do have a Rockler flex hose that kept zapping me over and over when it was connected to my sander. I wrapped an exposed copper wire around it, duct taped it and then connected it to a pipe in my ceiling. It worked like a charm. Thanks for the great content!
@funkypunkypine
2 жыл бұрын
I cannot believe how timely this video is. I started the process of finally setting up my dust collection system today and was definitely confused about how to ground. Thank you!
@brianpauljohnson1
2 жыл бұрын
Getting a little shock doesn't bother me, but when my dust collector is connected to my cnc machine which is connected to my computer where a little bit of static discharge causes my cnc to stop in the middle of a cut, it needs to be grounded! I've never had issues once I grounded the pvc
@hold-my-beer-watch-this
2 жыл бұрын
The dust collection network in my cabinet shop avoids this problem by running through metal ducting
@randallsmith7885
7 ай бұрын
My plastic flex piping, which has coiled wire providing structural support, shocks me harshly when I touch it. Annoying as can be.
@lewisheasman
2 жыл бұрын
A minute of silence for the people with plastic ribbed ducts
@andrewkennedy9704
2 жыл бұрын
😶
@howardappel3596
2 жыл бұрын
Fortunately, there has never, I repeat NEVER, been one single documented case of a home dust collection explosion from static electricity.
@IAmKyleBrown
2 жыл бұрын
HAHA, now just wait for someone to argue with you without any evidence of a documented case :)
@dougprentice1363
2 жыл бұрын
I just don't want to get shocked anymore.
@StumpyNubs
2 жыл бұрын
@falcon10911- Totally different situation.
@StumpyNubs
2 жыл бұрын
@@Falcon-eh8tq Who said it was not atomized? If you are going to debate, you should make an effort to know what you are debating. The link to the video where I explain it, and the paper I base it upon is beneath the video.... And why did you delete your comment that I responded to and replace it with a different one? If you want to play games like that, we aren't going to chat anymore. Have a nice day.
@missingegg
2 жыл бұрын
@@Falcon-eh8tq You can see both his hands in this video, and clearly see he has all his fingers. No wonder he doesn't want to spend time talking to you.
@dwwoodbuilds
2 жыл бұрын
James, I agree the danger of a fire/explosion is virtually nil for a home workshop from static discharge. There is valid concern regarding static discharge and electronics, like the electronics controlling a CNC. A buddy of mine ran into this recently where the dust collection was discharging onto the CNC. Once he realized it was happening, he properly grounded the dust collection pipe and a possible expensive repair was avoided. With more and more electronics in the shop, dust collector static discharge could be a valid concern. Love your videos, keep up the great work!
@rivernet62
2 жыл бұрын
Are you sure about the spiral hose? Static electricity is a surface effect and the metal spiral is insulated from the surface.
@StumpyNubs
2 жыл бұрын
It works.
@crisdunbar4753
2 жыл бұрын
I don't understand why to drive the screws through the wall of the duct. If the plastic is a good enough insulator to stop the charge migrating from the inside wall to the outside wall, then the charge won't migrate along the _length_ of the duct either. You'll just end up with little tiny 1/8 inch (or so) diameter spots that are effectively grounded, but everywhere else, there will be almost no effect. Is there a more subtle point I'm missing?
@crisdunbar4753
2 жыл бұрын
@@jtaylor8606 Hmmm. Since Stumpy seems to agree that grounding is useless anyway, and is just making the vid to placate the heathens, maybe the screws are just sleight-of-hand to make the story more convincing? =)
@johnmacleod2487
2 жыл бұрын
Seems the purpose of the screws is more for secure mounting than their conductivity. Better than tape. Easier, less wire than coiling around duct
@MakewithJake
2 жыл бұрын
People just won't let it go...but oh well. Good for them and their grounded dust system I suppose.
@patheffernan3418
2 жыл бұрын
Nice video. I found the euro screws to be perfect for this as they provide a smooth blunt end just inside the inside surface of the pipe.
@dpvbischoff
2 жыл бұрын
You can’t ground a non-conductor - because it doesn’t conduct. So the wire is not actually grounding the ducts. All it serves is to provide a nearby collector for electrostatic discharge thereby allowing the pipes to shed static more frequently at lower charges. I live in a region that has some of the lowest humidity in the world. Simply lifting a blanket or putting on a Tshirt in the dark will generate dozens of little light flashes. Reaching for a light switch can generate an inch long lightning bolt that is visible in daylight. I may not be concerned about a sawdust explosion, but electrostatic discharge can damage electronics.
@austinwoodall5423
2 жыл бұрын
The plastic insulator is acting as a dialectric in a capacitor. As dust rubs the inner tube, that friction strips electrons from the surface creating a boundary layer of positively charged air (that should actually reduce friction now that I think about it) which induces a negative charge outside the tube (attracts extra electrons to fill the holes inside). That said, even one ground screw connecting the inside to the outside should theoretically prevent shocks in normal atmospheric conditions without connecting to a "ground" reference. Or perhaps a screw through each piece of pipe is necessary. You get a "shock" when you touch the pipe because the charge induced on the outer surface is inefficient. That is, air is not a great conductor and doesn't contain very many ions indoors. Humans contain more ions than air so when you touch the pipe, electrons and ions quickly flow from you to the outer pipe boundary layer especially if you are also touching a grounded chassis. The shock you feel is the current or charge per second flowing from you. I'm interested to what degree the induced charge decreases friction. A different approach could be connecting the outside of the pipe to a grounded chassis using foil tape or some other conductor. Or even ionizing the air near the outside of the pipe using a Tesla coil, one of those neato electrostatic globes, an ozone air purifier, or even fluorescent lights. Anything to reduce the time required to bring the charge outside the pipe into equilibrium with the inside. This should prevent shocks while potentially reducing friction inside the pipe.
@scottwillis5434
2 жыл бұрын
A Tesla coil would be fun, however I would keep it away from your cell phone, medical implants, shop computer, CNC controller, speed controls inside variable-speed tools, ...
@philshock3805
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the tips! Going to have to try grounding the wire in my 4in flex hose that's hooked up to my dust collector and a Dewalt 735 planer. That's the only machine I have that constantly zaps me when using!
@yorkshirefazer
2 жыл бұрын
nice vid! i've just put up a dust collection system in my (very) small shop. i used some self adhesive copper tape (the stuff gardeners use to keep slugs / snails at bay) on the outside and put a small screw through it every few feet. attached a wire and clamped that to my copper plumbing pipes that are grounded. just another option.
@MrZOMBIE170
2 жыл бұрын
Watch john mcgrath video he knews what hes talking about
@vennic
2 жыл бұрын
I'VE BEEN GOOGLING FOR HOURS!!!! WHAT THE HELL IS BEAR COPPER!!!! 🐻 edit: please help
@OneWildTurkey
2 жыл бұрын
You're kidding, right? JIC - it's BARE copper.
@cabman86
2 жыл бұрын
I have the cyclone on a 5 gallon bucket. As I was dumping it, it shocked the pee out of me.
@OneWildTurkey
2 жыл бұрын
I should have used an insulator before going to Amazon to look at the grounding wire. I DEFINITELY got shocked when I saw how much a small spool of copper wire is going for now.
@nightcatarts
2 жыл бұрын
It doesn't need to be copper; aluminium is often far cheaper & is conductive enough for the task.
@OneWildTurkey
2 жыл бұрын
@@nightcatarts Yes, thanks. I think you did get my point though. :) I was really surprised.
@nightcatarts
2 жыл бұрын
@@OneWildTurkey Yea, copper prices have been rising & rising for years now.
@timhaddox
2 жыл бұрын
Static discharge from my ungrounded pvc ducting fried 2 power supply units to my ivac blast gates. They sent me out replacements and advised me to ground my system and theyve been good since. It was especially bad on my drum sander. The flex hose would periodically arc about an inch to the machine body. The hair standing up and unpleasant jolts is all gone now. much more comfortable to work and wasnt nearly the pita that i thought it would be. I was never concerned about a fire though. oneida supercell dc system. another plus, the pvs seems to retain less dust now. maybe static cling was a thing.
@bobbray9666
2 жыл бұрын
I have an opportunity to try something not possible unless you're building a shop from the ground up. In our new home, my shop will be the entire space under a three stall garage. I'm going to bury 6" PVC sewer pipe under the slab. That gets the venting out of the way and it will be naturally grounded. The 6" vent branches will transition to 4" at my machines and I'll use flex hoses. I've planned for cleanouts in case something get sucked in that might clog the 6" vent pipe. I have a Harvey G700 and the dust port on it is about 12" off the floor so very little vertical lift, which decreases CFM. The concrete floor will have radiant heat with 2" of XPS under it. I shouldn't have condensation issues in the winter months here in Minnesota with well insulated walls down to the footings. The sewer pipe will be around 12" below grade. I'd like to hear about any drawbacks I might encounter. Thanks.
@colesmith2541
2 жыл бұрын
Years ago I had a Craftsman 2” W/D vac that produced a nearly constant zap until I connected the wire wrap on the hose to a body screw on the vac to drain the static. It was at its worst when cleaning my table saw.
@stevedarnell8444
2 жыл бұрын
I worked at a tire company, they were always concerned about the dust from the tires catching fire as it went through the exhaust system. I have also worked at a plastic plant, I tell you what. If you push a metal pipe into a box of plastic beads you will find out all about static.
@anullhandle
2 жыл бұрын
Steve Darnell Now just think about a bulk truck loading a silo with plastic pellets. The ground clip is the 1st thing on and the last thing off.
@stevedarnell8444
2 жыл бұрын
@@anullhandle that could be a shocking experience.
@altronixvideo
2 жыл бұрын
The only part of the static build up that annoys me is all the dust that sticks to the wall and celing along the run of the pipes, just looks super grimey after a few months.
@paulsiegel4439
2 жыл бұрын
As he says, the ducts are insulators and do not conduct electricity. The external ground wires have only limited effectiveness as charge will still float on the surface of the insulator as the distance from the wire increases. That is particularly noticeable in dry climates where there is no moisture in the air to help , conduct the charge to the wire.
@jonathanmemole4811
2 жыл бұрын
ME: Has tiny work room and uses a shop vac for all my dust collecting. ALSO ME: Watches every Stumpy Nubs dust collector video religiously.
@MinionAtTheGate
7 ай бұрын
You have many great informative videos and this is no exception and it is nice to see you address the issue of static in dust collection systems. I've worked in a few CNC shops, mostly cutting metals, and also a couple of food product factories that dealt with transferring powders used in the production. I don't know if its due to OSHA standards but they always used metal duct, grounding flex hose, and the dust collectors themselves were never inside the building with the workers, always outside. Having the collectors outside (I'm guessing) is not just a protection against explosions but also means little chance of microparticles contaminating the air people are breathing if the collector has an issue where it is leaking either due to improper seal or deficient filters for whatever reason. I don't know if its a danger to home shops but the dangers of explosion caused by dust collection in a production environment are real and every once in a while you will here in the news of a major explosion at a factory caused by the dust collection system. Seems the same people who expect employers to follow every safety precaution they can, throw that to the wind when they themselves operate their own manufacturing equipment at home, whether its regular wood shop tools, CNC routers or 3D Printers. Clean air is a must if you want a good quality of life from your 50's through your 90's and beyond.
@petemoore8923
2 жыл бұрын
I’ve been hit pretty hard by the flex hose on a commercial CNC running aluminum composite panel. ACM oozes static if you look at it wrong! It’s actually funny to watch new guys and gals get zapped until they figure out how to handle it. Anyway the hose has the copper wire and whoever set it up didn’t connect it. I did. Totally worth it.
@PoeticJusticeSC
2 жыл бұрын
Great video. I grounded our built in vacuum pipe where it goes along the garage ceiling because the static charge attracted dust and dirt and turned the pipe and wall brown. After cleaning it I spiraled wire around it and grounded it to the vacuum. Ten years later it still looks clean.
@darrinduhamel6021
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the info. My issue with the static electricity is not based on fear of getting shocked. It is purely about cleanliness. I find that my PVC ducting gets completely covered (fairly thick layer) of very fine dust. Its more of an eyesore than anything else. Do you have any simple solutions? Thanks again.
@atomictyler
2 жыл бұрын
grounding an insulator is odd
@StumpyNubs
2 жыл бұрын
And yet it solves the problem.
@tgun5000
2 жыл бұрын
I'm trying to look at it as "grounding" a capacitive circuit. Makes more sense then. Maybe not correct...
@weibullguy
2 жыл бұрын
@@tgun5000 Yeah, that's correct. The PVC pipe becomes a capacitor as the triboelectric effect creates a build up of charge on the interior wall. The screw through the wall allows the charge to equalize across the pipe wall. If the exterior wall of the pipe is connected to earth, the charge on the interior wall will be returned to mother earth through the 18GA wire. If that 18GA wire isn't properly connected to ground, then the charge on the interior will be returned to mother earth through your body when you touch the pipe.
@Yawles
2 жыл бұрын
The one style you use in your topic selection - frequently talking safety - is much appreciated. Hopefully, we all have younger craftsmen & women in training, wanting to spend time with us in the shop. Thank you for regularly finding safety topics we may have forgotten, neglected or just simply didn't know. Another excellent course offered at Dr. Hamilton's Wood University (aka Wood U).
@colindoesdiy
2 жыл бұрын
Surely if pvc is an Insulator, wrapping Copper wire around it is going to do absolutely nothing to discharge electrical charge except perhaps at the point where it physically touches the pipe and nowhere else, leaving 99.9% of the pipe un-grounded. I can understand grounding metal ducting and metal blast gates but on pvc it will do very very little if nothing at all. As you have said, in a large flour mill, it would be a problem which is why they use grounded Metal ducting, but in a small woodworking shop it's not going to be any worse than the sort of static shock you might get or hear when simply pulling on a Woollen Jumper. Electricity won't flow through or across an Insulator otherwise you would potentially get a shock from holding a PVC insulated electrical cable when it is live ! It's not rocket science 😁 I'm sure I'll get loads of contradictory comments on this, but I won't be wasting time and money needlessly grounding my PVC ducting and drilling a perfectly good pipe full of holes.
@StumpyNubs
2 жыл бұрын
The wire helps dissipate the charge from the surface and channel it away. There are countless first hand examples in the comments on this video alone from people who have stopped being "shocked" by their PVC pipe after doing this.
@colindoesdiy
2 жыл бұрын
Well, if I ever find Static charge becoming a problem I might consider a trial, but never been an issue for me up to now 😁
@kadmow
2 ай бұрын
in Australia, piggyback (passthrough) outlet connectors exist specifically for earthing - no outlet wasted... (for the Algo.. )
@rickz6006
2 жыл бұрын
I live in a dry climate and the static build up from my shop vac is terrifyingly painful but as you say is pretty easy to ground, never worried about an explosion though.
@marknichols2027
2 жыл бұрын
Good info! 2 use cases where this was important to me. 1. My planer connected to the vac system through a flexible hose. Shocked the crap out of me a couple times. Connected the internal wire to a local outlet box. No more flopping around on the floor for me. 2. My CNC machine's shopvac. Static was building up in it quite a bit. I accidentally touched it while the CNC was running - it shocked me and the CNC shut down. Copper through the plastic hose connected to the ground on the router support and also to some conduit and all is well. Just where I need it...I'm not going to run wire through my entire vac system.
@TknJn
8 ай бұрын
Potentially a UK/Eur thing... Class II tools (double insulated) with 2 prong (Eur) or non connected / insulating earth prong (the Socket's LN shutter operator in the UK) My Record extractor is of this ilk. Give away on the machine plate? Two Concentric Squares. (graphically representing the double insulation) Currently using an ESD Grounding plug (with inline 1 meg resistor) & as Mr SN rightly pointing out; using up a precious outlet space. :-j
@vinceagnes
2 жыл бұрын
Great advice . I wish I had this information 30 years ago when I was setting up my current shop. I opted on running the ground wire inside the pipe. Most runs have been fine, but one has an occasional blockage. I routed the piping under the concrete floor, so redoing is not an option. Your explanations were great.
@KathyAndrew
3 ай бұрын
I was going to use S&D 6" plastic for my dust system, but it was not available reasonably in my area. You could buy all the 4" you could want but no 6". So I bought some spiral pipe and fittings, and for any more pieces needed I found I can get 26 gauge snaplock pipe at Ace Hardware. And if I need a fitting for the spiral, I can remove the crimp from snaplock fittings and use them with spiral pipe by using couplings. Glad I did it 20 plus years ago, as the cost has gone up significantly.
@JoshD4PREZ
Жыл бұрын
Man you are the greatest teacher ever, I was so frustrated trying to solve this grounding situation. Nothing like an expert explaining all the in’s & out’s 👍
@joemedeiros8433
8 ай бұрын
I know it's been a few months since your comment, but in case you haven't gone through the trouble of grounding yet... Consider watching the video from John McGrath, he is an electrician and woodworker. As great as James (Stumpy) is, John provides the best info on the matter imo. The title of his video is - Grounding/Earthing a PVC Dust Extraction System! Time to End the Nonsense!!
@chrisstearns10
2 жыл бұрын
I say it's always better to be safe than sorry 👍👍
@wernerviehhauser94
2 жыл бұрын
In that case, I would always opt for metal duct work, which is complete overkill in most situations. I would never use PVC, but PP instead.
@doct0rnic
6 ай бұрын
The idea of grounding PVC sounds about as plausible as Frank Reynolds hanging from a ceiling to not get shocked from working on a live breaker box
@georger5430
4 ай бұрын
My (shop)? is in a easy up canopy in my back yard. I use a shop vac and a 5gal bucket dust collector. My dust collection is all flex hose. Is running the copper line inside the hoses between the tools-shop vac-dust collector-ground, OK? Can I attach the copper wire to a heavy nut and let it drag on the ground, or do I need to drive a stake into the ground? Thanks
@grantrichards4950
2 жыл бұрын
I'm glad you suggest running the ground wire outside the duct. In many jurisdictions, it's a code violation to run any conductors inside ductwork.
@davidhabener5767
2 ай бұрын
I have an extra outlet in my shop.... when I built it, I put in 54 outlets. Because I hate extension cords.
@FearsomeWarrior
2 жыл бұрын
I used cheap copper rivets because I already had them. I hammered them with a perfectly sized wood block inside the pipe making it loose so there is room to wrap the wire. I only have one run straight out of dust collector that goes behind 4 mobile carts and one that goes up and over to the table saw . It's around 10 feet of pipe in total and the wire job took 10 minutes to drill and wrap. I didn't go overboard with holes. One every 4 feet or whenever it was convenient to ground to metal. It was too easy and I consider the permanence of fire damage enough reason to do it. Even if it's a fraction of a percent chance. That and a neighbors house burned down after they were welding and went in the house for lunch. Their hummer was turned into a puddle of garbage. They had nothing after that and that kind of thing scares me the hell out of me.
@Outlaw.Woodworking
Жыл бұрын
The problem I face is when I am planning Epoxy. It likes to stick to the inside of my pvc piping and ends up stuck to the blade of my motor and clogs up. Will this help that in any way?
@scottwillis5434
2 жыл бұрын
Great video! I'll just recommend using stranded copper wire wherever hoses flex, as a single solid strand is subject to fatigue and breaking off. The heavy stranded wire going into the plug was probably for mechanical strength.
@silverharbourwoodworks6584
2 жыл бұрын
Whether of not it can cause an explosion is irrelevant. The grounding will protect some equipment, such as CNC, lasers and some advanced shop machinery.
@jeffa847
8 ай бұрын
Boy people sure insist that it happens. When I watched videos before on it (including Stumpy's) and then brought it up to a half dozen people they were basically mad at me. They were really emotional about it and claimed they could tell me several people who had it happen to them. Asking additional details about how the shop burning down was pointless though in one case he mentioned a a common friend's son who burned his shop up but when I pointed out that it was believed that was a small ember that had gotten into the the dust bin I was told - 'if you want to burn down your shop that's fine with me!' LOL - I didn't even argue the point strongly - just reported what I had been told and what the paper from MIT said. I think I will ground mine anyway just for piece of mind.
@MichaelCampbell01
9 ай бұрын
Good, I guess, but this is about as legitimate as telling people how to properly wear Oreos on their neck to keep elephants away. (Ok, the distraction from a shock angle I guess is fine, although I've never once heard of anyone having any _actual_ issues with it.) But, to each their own I guess.
@sixstarauto
2 жыл бұрын
I just wrapped a Romex wire from the main ground wire out of my sub panel to the PVC 5 feet from the cyclone, have not been shocked since. Forget all that work.
@ryanc8188
2 жыл бұрын
Guess that's the nice part of having a sheet metal guy that can get all your pipe for cheap. 😂 I bought some tools off a guy once and when I was in his shop he helically wrapped his whole pvc system, he was a full time custom woodworker, and you could see a 3" bar around wherever the copper wire was wrapped and the rest of it was covered in sawdust. So I say if your going to be running a lot of material continuously through you system use metal, if you just don't want to spend more time cleaning than working on the weekend use pvc.
@TaylerMade
2 жыл бұрын
as a one man shop, when i was full time in the shop i never grounded my pvc piping. generally the biggest user for dust was the thicknesser. as the pvc connected directly to the metal body of the machine i considered it grounded. to many worry worts in youtube who see something and due to lack of knowledge, presume its correct and then pass that misinformation on. my advice to anyone looking to learn on youtube, is make sure the person teaching is a trained professional. in my opinion there are far to many idiots on youtube with no idea what they are doing or how.
@StumpyNubs
2 жыл бұрын
I said it was a myth in the first sentence of the video.
@JimPepperTactical
2 жыл бұрын
Good info. Can anyone cite a wood shop burning down due to static? I still don’t believe it’s a safety threat, just annoying.
@dapperdave4952
2 жыл бұрын
Another great video James, as a retired BSEE (and wood wood worker/turner) I would add that the final grounding should be to a single point ground and only a single point to mitigate "Ground Loop" issues due to the difference in potentials that could be hazardous in some situations.
@dougprentice1363
2 жыл бұрын
I'd like to know what that means.
@daifeichu
2 жыл бұрын
@@dougprentice1363 It just means a complete circuit. Instead of both ends of the ground wire going to ground only one end goes to ground.
@keithlamb324
2 жыл бұрын
100% correct on that!
@johnhawkinson
2 жыл бұрын
No. There's nothing wrong with a ground loop when dissipating static electricity, and indeed, there's a good argument for an equipotential ground-in-as-many-places-as-you-can system. This is not an audio system trying to minimize the effects of 60 Hz hum between sensitive amplifiers.
@daifeichu
2 жыл бұрын
@@johnhawkinson You are right. I'm so use to not having a ground loop for other purposes, like lightning protection, that with static electricity it's a non-issue if there's a loop or not.
@raynelson3404
2 жыл бұрын
I am using a cnc machine in my home shop and I have noticed that milling MDF produces a lot of static charge. I guess this may be the case when cutting MDF on other shop tools. I chose to ground my dust collection to prevent getting a good zap when working with MDF. Great video. Thank you for all of your very helpful and informative content.
@teresa6775
Жыл бұрын
I thought grounding prevented the dust from being stuck to the plastic due to static, similar to canister vacuums. Duh.
@kiwdwks
2 жыл бұрын
Great info/video! Thanks.
@miknefish1
2 жыл бұрын
What about using metal Hvac duct instead? It’s currently cheaper than pvc!
@bones549
Жыл бұрын
If it makes you feel better don't. However impossible to ground an insulator.
@odbo_One
8 ай бұрын
I recently installed a duct system in my new shop, forgot to ground it. ZAP!
@tom314
2 жыл бұрын
I ran a constant line of aluminium tape along the outside of the ducting on mine which works well. I quite agree the risk of generating a dust explosion is very very remote in a domestic setup. The reason I grounded mine was mostly to reduce the amount of dust that is attracted to the pipe work due to the static charge and it's made a noticeable difference.
@absalomdraconis
2 жыл бұрын
You could probably do with taped-on strips of aluminum foil too, so long as you made sure to have a lot of overlap on adjacent strips.
@tom314
2 жыл бұрын
@@absalomdraconis I had to do that on a few branches, as you say it works fine. It doesn't need to create a very low resistance path, it just needs to be low enough to allow the charge to slowly drain away. I expect 10MOhm would be fine but I haven't done the calculations. It is often missed that the conductor insulator range is a continuum. In practical use there are no perfect conductors or insulators. In practical use superconductors are very close to perfect but not quite and diamond is the best electrical insulator I know of but it's not perfect. (Sorry for the rather long rambling and slightly off topic reply saying "yes I agree, good idea")
@chrisretired5379
2 жыл бұрын
Years ago, one of our schools 2 stage exhaust systems for the wood shop caught fire, burned the exhaust unit, flash lit all the dust accumulated in most of the shops metal ducting. Now systems have UV watch sensors in the duct system reporting to a local FA system in the shops, it reports to the schools main system as a zone
@denisduval7788
11 ай бұрын
Great video , what if my dust collection unit as no metal , my Rigid vaccum is all plastic? where do I connect the end of my wire ?🤔
@maxiepax99
6 ай бұрын
You could just buy copper tape, pull it inside the duct, use a toiletbrush or something else that is spungy and just oversized through the duct to make it stick to the inside.
@murbella7
2 жыл бұрын
You are right, there was no need for this video. Thanks for all your work but like you, I don't need to watch this.
@cybernick3218
Жыл бұрын
Any difference if you use ABS piping instead of PVC?
@ronski50
2 жыл бұрын
Would the metal duct support hangers provide the same conductivity? If it does, just wire from strap to strap to an equipment ground.
@nightcatarts
2 жыл бұрын
That would work too, yes. Only issue then is that it'd probably be external only, unless you run some short screws through it & the pipe.
@mrkattm
2 жыл бұрын
Speak for yourself, I get some nasty static shocks from my dust system and they hurt. I guess that I am a whimp.
@creepyloner1979
Жыл бұрын
instead of trying to prevent a fire inside the dust collector, i'd love to see one that uses the cyclone as a combustion chamber and the draft of a chimney instead of a fan to power the whole thing. it would be nice and quiet, no filters to replace or bags of sawdust to throw out and it would reduce both the electric and heating costs of your woodshop.
@SusanKenowski
Жыл бұрын
would you need to use anti static hoses and gloves when using a hepa dust extractor vacuum in house while sanding walls with a small orbital sander? thanks in advance
@MarshallLoveday
2 жыл бұрын
I have a HUGE static shock phobia, so if I ever get a dust collection system, it will be grounded for static shock. Thanks for the tips!
@CLove511
2 жыл бұрын
You'd have hated my old home. Constant, neverending static shock from everything metal. I've been out of it for almost a year, but I still tap the fridge, washer, sink, etc. with my elbow first out of habit.
@k311ydcart3r
Жыл бұрын
@@CLove511You might have had an actual electrical problem, not static electricity problem. Meaning your house wiring was possibly faulty.
@miketrissel5494
2 жыл бұрын
seems like it would just be easier to put a beaver in the pipe and let him run back and forth .... after all they love wood chips
@boutellejb
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for yet another good video James! You can save money with no impact on performance by using steel wire instead of copper. Copper wire is is used for electrical conductors to minimize voltage drop (and power loss) when current flows. Static electricity has very very high voltage, but extremely low current. The voltage drop of steel wire vs copper for static charge draining in a dust system is unnoticeable.
@LiviuGelea
2 жыл бұрын
or you can use thinner copper wire.
@nightcatarts
2 жыл бұрын
Why waste money on steel when you can use aluminium? It conducts better & resists less than steel also.
@boutellejb
2 жыл бұрын
@@nightcatarts probably a good option as well - looks like similar prices on amazon. Never used it myself, as I already have rolls of the steel wire.
@nightcatarts
2 жыл бұрын
@@boutellejb Ah, I never use Amazon for that sort of stuff. eBay is often far cheaper, & specialist wire & mesh companies cheaper still.
@KinzQuest
2 жыл бұрын
Try crimping a spade connector to the integrated hose wire on the flex hose. Makes it easy to unhook if you ever need to. This worked well on ditching the static on my collectors hose that occasionally produced a shock.
@StumpyNubs
2 жыл бұрын
I just bend the stiff flex hose wire into an eye, then wrap the end of the copper wire through it a couple of time. Easy on, easy off.
@adamsersen
2 жыл бұрын
Mythbusters did an episode on this as well. They also debunked the myth.
@nato2959
2 жыл бұрын
The Stumpy Nubs University...
@daviddauphin838
2 жыл бұрын
i suggest using non-phosphated screws such as zinc coated machine screws.
@ro_yo_mi
2 жыл бұрын
A random shock that distracts you is the first good reason I've heard.
@niveknospmoht8743
2 жыл бұрын
I get zapped sometimes with my leaf blower. So yeah I can see this as being a real thing
@ejonesss
11 ай бұрын
sawdust can flash if it is fine enough and you get the right mix of spark and air.
@bannerman100
2 жыл бұрын
Static attracts dust. Would the duct grounding prevent dust build-up in the pipes, thus reducing the risk of fire ? (Started, of course, by an electrical or mechanical spark.)
@nightcatarts
2 жыл бұрын
Fine dust on things is not, practically, a fire risk until it's in a big pile where it can smoulder; it's the stuff floating around in the air that can potentially ignite & create a fuel-air bomb (but that's more likely to happen when cooking with flour than when woodworking).
@HolzMichel
2 жыл бұрын
thanks for posting this, this has been a subject i have been intending to cover on my own channel for some time but now i can link to your video instead whenever the subject comes up in the comment section in my videos on dust collection. i have watched many a prominent youtuber screw up their dust collection systems six ways from sunday. some of them even got extremely indignant when i would point it out to them they should ground their system and would give them pointers on how to do it. it's pretty crazy to think someone who has hundreds of thousands of subs, in one case even over a million would get this so wrong... and in spectacular fashion wrong to boot, and then be all bent out of shape when you try to give them a pointer or two. the thing you are talking about is called "capacitance" in the PVC pipe. the static charge doesn't migrate thru, but it does flow around all of the surfaces of the pipe. PVC and ABS can have some really crazy capacitance properties depending on the air velocity, volume and type and size of dust particles moving thru it. the finer the dust particles get, the faster and higher a static charge will build up. MDF dust is extremely fine grained and thus explosive. and lots of woodworkers are increasingly reaching to MDF as a raw material because it is cheaper and easier to work with than particle board or OSB. this is the real reason you should ground your system if you use any appreciable amount of MDF in your shop. wood chips off of your planer or table saw don't generate the kind of static charge that MDF dust does, although they do generate some. MDF is essentially nothing more than dense paper as it begins life in a similar process, which means it has been thru a digester and the fibers have been separated in the manufacturing process which makes them easier to to ignite when the air/fuel mixture is right because of their dispersal pattern. the outfit i work for had an MDF dust explosion occur in the collection tower last year. the investigators never could adequately pinpoint the source and cause of the ignition. static electricity discharge was ruled to be the most likely suspect in spite of the system being more than adequately grounded. don't take this subject too lightly folks.. dust explosions are no laughing matter
@bassrun101
2 жыл бұрын
Garry not Linda. When is the last time you heard of a dust explosion in a small home workshop? If you have, name it and cite your source. He's not talking about your scenario of a large production facility system with multiple machines, collection towers and all of that. A small single person woodshop running one machine at a time cannot generate the amount of "dust" to cause an explosion for exactly the reason you state: air/fuel ratio. There won't be several production sanders running at one time. Besides that, the majority of what goes through the collection system are CHIPS from tablesaws, routers, jointers and planers that are way too large to ever ignite from static electricity. As James said: "We're not talking a flour mill here."
@HolzMichel
2 жыл бұрын
@@bassrun101 gee... if you like getting zapped all the time when you touch a dust collection pipe, then sure, don't ground it. there are certainly enough people out there who like a little dab of masochism in their lives. there are a multitude of reasons why you should ground your system. the potential for a dust explosion is just one... you don't need a lot of machines running at once, just the right conditions and in any home shop you will inevitably have those conditions at some point in time. the dust explosion that my company experienced happened in the wee hours of the morning between 2 and 3 AM. unless the ghosts and goblins or maybe even gremlins were secretly running some sanders, there was really no reason for it to happen. it was so violent that it was heard in several communities up and down the valley and it triggered an alarm that brought 5 different fire protection districts to the scene. fortunately the safety systems that were in place kept the collateral damage down to a minimum and allowed the explosion to dissipate. a lot of folks with home shops use ABS or PVC pipe for their dust collection systems, i've used it myself and don't have a problem with it. but that type of pipe has a real penchant for charging up electro-statically and can generate a pretty nasty spark with a pretty nasty bite. ask me how i know... the pipe essentially becomes a big capacitor that can and will discharge when you touch it. you don't need to be running a flour mill to get it to explode. while the chance of an explosion occurring in a home shop is fairly small, it isn't outside the realm of possibility. treat it how you see fit. me, i been on the receiving end of a few dust explosions in my career...hard pass on that one.. if i can make my shop a tad safer, then that's what i'll do and make that recommendation to others. you do you, may the zapp be with you
@bassrun101
2 жыл бұрын
@@HolzMichel Garry not Linda. Not the point of the reply. Your final statement about dust explosions in a small home workshop, in your original post, being an issue is. I said nothing about the static shock factor. There have been NO documented cases of a dust explosion in a home workshop chip collection system. As I said, if you can show one, cite your source. You are once again using a production shop and system as an example. I'm still talking about one guy, one piece of equipment like a random orbit sander feeding sanding dust through 1-1/4" hose feeding into a 4" collector pipe. I'll even add a drum sander to that list. It's not possible for that miniscule amount of sanding dust to reach the kind of concentration needed to come close to the proper air/fuel ratio necessary to cause an explosion in that system. That said, as you stated in your original post there were mitigating circumstances in the situation that you reported which CAN cause a fire. Excess material such as sanding dust and saw chips should not be allowed to accumulate in, on or around that equipment and that is where proper grounding can shine. The dust likely will not collect on the pipes and gates if it's correctly grounded or at least be very minimized as well as the shock hazard and danger that goes with it. Those are my points. Enough said.
@HolzMichel
2 жыл бұрын
@@bassrun101 well you finally got the point although skirted around it to get there. that's fine, better that way than having to learn the hard way. suffice it to say that my comments here are based on experience and not conjecture. home shop ignitions are rare and usually never catch the news as they usually fairly minor and don't generate the same kind of energy as a commercial system can. but lemme tell ya it's no fun getting your eyebrows and beard singed... but it is an attention getter. perhaps it's better to err on the side of caution rather than come home to several dozen cool looking red trucks with purdy disco lights and brassy music blaring surrounding the house trying to make it grow by pouring copious amounts of water onto it...
@LightAndSportyGuy
2 жыл бұрын
Never seen an explosion. But I have seen a shop vac catch fire inside while vacuuming the dust from CNC milling MDF... (It was burning down in the bucket, not up by the motor.)
@papatrt
2 жыл бұрын
can you piggy back two small cyclone dust collectors
@momontiego8705
Жыл бұрын
Much easier way- buy aluminium tape and use on pipes.
@janklebox7263
2 ай бұрын
Man I really appreciate you videos.
@csimet
2 жыл бұрын
Another option to find ground when your shop is in your house... use a nearby copper water pipes. By code, copper water pipes are supposed to be connected to the main electric panel ground... assuming yours is (check before assuming that - you will typically see the connection at your water service entrance, usually both sides of your meter, and a heavy line running to your electrical panel). Just use a ground clamp made for this type of connection (it wraps around and has teeth - just like the one at the meter).
@grantrichards4950
2 жыл бұрын
Many copper or galvanized water pipes are already grounded in that they are often routed in the ground to reach certain locations. With more and more homes having PEX, however, it's not always an option anymore.
@w4baham
2 жыл бұрын
Wish someone would compare the cost of using metal duct work vs PVC. I am sure metal is higher, but significant?
@StumpyNubs
2 жыл бұрын
Metal is 3-5X more expensive.
@Subsonic-cd2en
2 жыл бұрын
I'm not concerned about an explosion, but I ground my ducts because I get absolutely monumental shocks from them. I don't know how you experience with "a shock from pvc is unlikely to be painful" is so much different from mine - because I absolutely get solidly zapped if it isn't grounded. In addition, the flex hose to my CNC MUST be grounded. Before it was grounded the static from that hose was actually causing the cnc to go into an error state and shut down. This happened over and over again until I finally figured out what the problem was. Grounding the dust collection completely solved the problem.
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