Comparing the accuracy of an old indicator with JO blocks. Please subscribe & ring the bell. Watch my 1300 other shop videos #Southbendlathe#foundryyoutubeshopteacher#joblocks#gaugeblocks#starrett
I am amazed where you find all these old instruments let alone the time and work you invest into a video like that one, actually all your videos. Thanks, it was very informative. This must have been even before my time.
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you Bob. And yes it takes a lot of time. I probably average eight hours a day. Keep watching
@ccfoam
5 жыл бұрын
Great video Mr. Pete....you mentioned not storing tools in a wooden box. What is the reason that many tool makers have a Gerstner chest? I built boxes out of walnut for storing my grind vises and spin fixture. I put piece of camphor in the boxes and it seems to keep things from rusting. Keep up the great videos!
@nedshead5906
5 жыл бұрын
I can't research Carl Edvard Johansson , the dog ate my internet
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
lol
@stanwooddave9758
5 жыл бұрын
Get your dog to vet, I hear the Internet can be toxic. :->)
@brandibartolomucci789
5 жыл бұрын
The dog ate my algebra homework once,it looked like someone took a pair of pinking shears and went all around the edges! My proper type German algebra teacher still accepted it because all the work was readable. Although he wasn't pleased!
@jenniferwhitewolf3784
5 жыл бұрын
It is Ideal, you know! even watching on a phone the scale was easy to see. My dad suggested long ago that the ideal was never accurate enough to use as a height gauge.. but a relative run-out indicator to center a workpiece in a 4 jaw, it was 'ideal'... because absolute value is unimportant, but seeing relative runout in jaw centering is important. We had one on the lathe for decades.. I have no clue where it went.. many of dad's tools disappeared after his passing. This video was sort of a memory trip. THANKS!
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
Yes
@JohnCHansen01
5 жыл бұрын
@mrpete222 I think the video you referred to on gauge block calibration is here: kzitem.info/news/bejne/zoGwrIyAfKSqpYo This is a tour of A.A. Jansson and it shows the entire process of certification. This video begins with the history of the company and the development of gauge blocks in general.
@dreadnaught2707
5 жыл бұрын
If you look very carefully at the tip of the Ideal indicator as you put the blocks under it the body of it moves upwards very slightly. I'm watching on a 37inch monitor btw.
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
I will have to look at it on my 55 inch TV
@fpreston9527
5 жыл бұрын
He's got the last word lol
@longcaster
5 жыл бұрын
Mr. Pete, a stained or lightly rusted block is not unusable, it is unreliable, for rough work it can tell you when you are close.When that ideal indicator was new it was probably accurate enough that it sold well. Back then was about the same as when you were in your prime you did not buy crap junk tools. You got the best you could afford, not the lowest cost you could find. I am 10 years younger than you, I am almost a shut-in, thank you for being on KZitem. You keep me from wasting to uselessness. One of the problems as I aged is essential tremor, it is hard to eat peas with a spoon unless I smash them a little. My trade, I worked on computer systems I used to rebuild disc drive heads and platters. I could measure the thickness of the film left after alcohol evaperated, it mattered which kind we used because of the film. Keep up your great work, you are not boring us.
@stxrynn
5 жыл бұрын
Tolerances and accuracy from 1900 are still usable today. But the metrology advances made between 1900 and today are almost miraculous! It's so cheap to measure accurately now, but machining to what we can measure is still expensive, or time consuming... More than 3 digits to the right of the decimal is getting into the noise. I wonder if kids nowadays learn about significant digits anymore? I was trained at the end of the sliderule age, and significant digits were hammered into us at every turn. Even after calculators were affordable.
@another1commenter770
5 жыл бұрын
Yes we do..... weekly rent and student debt costs more then the highest significant digits provided in a wage slip.
@stxrynn
5 жыл бұрын
Not quite where I was going, but accurate non-the-less! I like the wit! It's not just for students, tho. I've been out of university for almost 30 years now, and my stagnant wages don't spread as far as they used to.... I was aiming for this: kzitem.info/news/bejne/loug3X5viXuGqXom8s
@ExtantFrodo2
5 жыл бұрын
@@stxrynnWhat? Everyone knows that the circumference of a circle with a diameter of 10 inches is 31.415926535897932384626433832795 inches, not 31 or 31.4 Who are you trying to fool? But yeah you'd think NASA would need some hairy accuracy when plotting a course to Mars, but no. they use 3.14
@bcbloc02
5 жыл бұрын
@@ExtantFrodo2 I don't know about that, their 1960's engineering stress and deflection software we used(NASTRAN) usually went out 6 decimals.
@ExtantFrodo2
5 жыл бұрын
@@bcbloc02 ...because those were not insignificant in the employed metric. Right? Plank's constant has significant digits out to 10^42. Atomic force microscopes detect deflection's in the picoNewton range. It doesn't change what I said about calculating a trajectory to Mars.
@PirateofCapeAnn
5 жыл бұрын
When you place the Jo-Blocks under the Ideal, the whole unit looks to flex on the close-up video, as if the mount may be loose. The thicker the block, the greater the deflection seemed to be. I think the accuracy of the unit itself was okay. With a couple of Last Words, the Ideal is redundant anyway. Keep 'em coming Schulmeister!!
@Halli50
5 жыл бұрын
Mr. Pete, you are a stern taskmaster - I did the mandatory Wikipedia reading and actually learned a bit (and refreshed quite a bit). A really good idea, sending us momentarily back to the classroom!
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
lol
@750VFR
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for dismantling the Ideal indicator. I've got one of the type over here in the UK, it very dirty and 'stuck', so soaking in a sealed jar of brake cleaner, think it might be a Starret. I now know what to expect when I strip it down. My plan, assuming I can get it to work, is to check the run out in my lathe on set up so really using it as a comparator, accuracy of measurement is not important. As always a fascinating project with history lesson thrown in for free.
@aceroadholder2185
5 жыл бұрын
I have a test indicator that at first glance is a duplicate of the Ideal indicator. Mine is British made and has a cut-out window so that the indicating needle doesn't have to be split. It has a 0.015" range. One side is graduated in Imperial and the other side is metric. I've found it to read accurately across it's range. I've had the indicator over 50 years, but rarely use it. Test indicators like the Starrett Last Word are more convenient to use.
@AmateurRedneckWorkshop
5 жыл бұрын
Another great video from mrpete. Thanks for providing us with so many interesting videos.
@robertmccracken72
5 жыл бұрын
I love the history. It is important for all of the current CNC guys to understand how we got here. Things used to be done on paper with pencil and slide rule, not CAD/CAM and CNC... I was sad the day my Grandfather died because he had lived from the age of the horse and buggy up til the Space Shuttle... To have been able to see the change that took place in just one man's lifetime... So thank you for sharing the history, it is very important!!!
@bcbloc02
5 жыл бұрын
I always understood that the last word style indicators are a comparator and are not really to be used as a direct measuring device as since the stylus moves in an arc and not a straight line there always will be some error due to the arc motion being translated to a linear movement.
@psicopatalucifer
5 жыл бұрын
Old people are so funny.
@johnfalco9528
9 ай бұрын
I’ve come across this video 4 years after publication. I wonder how accurate this mechanical indicator is if used as a plus or minus gauge using the .005 as mid range and using it that way. In reality when an indicator is setup it is setup in such a way that you can measure high and low side of tolerance not just the measurement you’re trying to get to. That is if the indicator has the range, but certainly this could work if your tolerance is plus or minus .003? It would be nice if the video showed that as an example as well.
@IBWatchinUrVids
5 жыл бұрын
I rarely argue with Mr. Pete, but I don't think it's really a fair test. You can see the housing of the indicator move as he's inserting and removing the gauge blocks from under the tip, especially at the .008 and .010 test marks (kzitem.info/news/bejne/sWewwIaApqilfYY). I'd wager that with a more rigid fixture, it would likely be more accurate, but I accept that the mounting options designed into the indicator probably contribute to the error, and would take considerable effort to solve.
@petemclinc
5 жыл бұрын
I have one of those Ideal indicators, came in a used tool chest I bought. It was a rusty mess, soaked it EvapoRust, cleaned up OK a little sticky though, may have to take it apart. Why do gauge block manufacturers always use wooden cases, you'd think they would know better? Good lesson mrpete!
@jolllyroger1
5 жыл бұрын
If the indicator is mounted at a 45 degree angle it will read half the value..... Isn't that correct.... Because the angle affects the lever moment.... I do belive that would be correct.... At less than 45 degrees you will get uneven reading.... At 45 you should get 1/2 the reading but it will also be progressive errors.... The last word uses a plunger... The ideal uses levers... One your tools and use accordingly..... The ideal just needs to be set up correctly to prevent progressive errors.... Even dial indicators will show errors depending on the indicator of not mounted near plumb or level.... A dual plunger in a 45 will show half the reading as well depending on the construction of the tool
@olinzuercher6344
4 жыл бұрын
What a coincidence, I have Single Ideal Test Indicator in the original box! Of course what single means is that the needle and graduations are on one side only. This indicator came with a 0.250 by 0.500 mounting bar and nothing else. Maybe this video will get me to test it and perhaps make some other ways of holding it.
@tinman5322
5 жыл бұрын
I've got an Ideal indicator, strictly as a souvenir and never took it to mean thousanths, simply a relative indication such as for centering. Seems to me it could only be calibrated by reworking the probe tip to alter the effective length and so...nah.....No wait - make an overlay for the scale. Great piece of old tech though!
@RightOnJonCrane
5 жыл бұрын
Great class today Mr. Pete! Everything you said wrings true!
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
lol
@jimadams8182
5 жыл бұрын
"Properly wrung blocks may withstand a 75 lbf (330 N) pull. While the exact mechanism that causes wringing is unknown" It boggles the mind that something so simple is still unknown!
@rdon53
5 жыл бұрын
Gosh Mr. Pete, lesson is both are suspect , as a guess as far as accuracy , Starrett, Brown and Sharpe , Mitutoyo are 'kinda' safe bets as far as used instrument accuracy .
@billshiff2060
Жыл бұрын
12:43 the ideal is moving under the .010 load, part of the lost distance there.
@billshiff2060
2 жыл бұрын
Test indicators are not intended to be accurate for measurement. They are comparitors. They can only be accurate under specific conditions and only over a very short range.
@clham612
5 жыл бұрын
I think that the Ideal indicator only has its age working against it. It looks like it has a worn pivot, either the pin or the hole, or both. That would certainly make it inaccurate. The geometry of the tool says that given precisely fitted parts, it should be quite accurate and repeatable.
@mistertonygee
3 жыл бұрын
Great knowledgeable video! Just found it interesting and watched and learned something new! Thumbs up! Laughing at, whoops there goes the needle! Good humor!
@timo8282
5 жыл бұрын
here's the link to the Suburban tool video kzitem.info/news/bejne/zoGwrIyAfKSqpYo
@mrc1539
5 жыл бұрын
Mr Pete, I think that if you put the starret on the body of the ideal you will find out that it was moving . Might be an interesting check.
@awizardalso
5 жыл бұрын
I can't say for sure but it looked like the tip on the Ideal indicator, was not centered and off a little. Maybe if the tip was inline with the holder it may have given a better reading.
@n5svm
5 жыл бұрын
Is the economy grade or B grade JO blocks good enough from most work? And if you buy used set what do you need to look for and how do you take care of them after you buy them?
@ericchilton3781
5 жыл бұрын
hi Mr Pete would you consider doing a series on the metal lathe accessories www.statecollegecentral .com a-11 tee slot cross slide for the atlas lathe .....im sure there would be a lot of interest in the series ...... there is a write up and photos for a south bend 9" lathe on practical machinist......but its different from the atlas one..... i would appreciate if you would consider this ....thanks again for all you do .......Eric in Kentucky..............
@ActiveAtom
5 жыл бұрын
Starrett bias alert they can do no wrong LOL. Good morning mr.pete. This video should really be helpful. We love Fowler but just when I was going to write that to you here it comes another tool new to me this Ideal Tool Co. We think this tool was the first word as it appears very early in measurement. We LOVE Don B. We had to own two sets of inspection tools one going out every 6 months and the other staying in work then the others and so on and so forth that was life in the aerospace job shop life for me. Already read about the Jo Block creator. Gauge Blocks Read it. set 1 user blocks set 2 reference blocks. Thank you for the Jo Block lesson refresher. looking at that little needle on the Ideal Tool go boy did the user need to be very careful while in use. Thank you.
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
First word. That's funny
@perolovson1715
5 жыл бұрын
Suburban tools: A.A. Jansson Field tripp.
@tonywildschutz1646
5 жыл бұрын
they only cot me 18 dollars new u are comparing a cadilac with a chevy
@pierresgarage2687
5 жыл бұрын
My all around set of blocks is exactly the same as this Fowler, just that they got no corrosion and still ring... ;) Waybe a little paralax error on a test indicator, shows more as the travel increases... Don't worry about the mess, here, it's a permanent war zone... lol
@byronfoxretiredmachinist9300
5 жыл бұрын
that is " wring " as in WRING out the air between the touching surfaces of the gauge blocks .
@pierresgarage2687
5 жыл бұрын
Sorry for the mistake, French being my first language, there are still a few obvious mistakes I make when speaking or writing English... Just learned something new today, I'm better machinist than translator...... ;)
@udowillkomm1173
5 жыл бұрын
Also, some wood contains acid, which is not friendly to measuring equipment also.
@horacerumpole6912
5 жыл бұрын
Put it in a cup of naptha to clean it, oil lightly, re-assemble and test again.
@tjay1430
5 жыл бұрын
More like This Old Tony Indicators.
@gvet47
4 жыл бұрын
When you took that unit apart you can see how poor the pivot screw fit is so no wonder it is off.
@minigunmen
5 жыл бұрын
With the 1.04 it does not go to 0.04, cause the whole indicator lifts a bit :)
@RRINTHESHOP
5 жыл бұрын
Nice demo, Now calibrate the Ideal.
@jondory8134
5 жыл бұрын
Mr. Pete, The question you asked about combinations is, like all easily asked questions, quite complicated. I’m not a machinist, but I own a farm and a few math degrees (and I’m hooked on your channel). Combinations suggest that order does not matter, 1.000 + 0.001 is the same as 0.001 + 1.000... Not sure, but I suppose, practically these are equivalent when combining Jo Blocks. But since each block has two “faces”, there are four configurations to wring two blocks. Then if the orientation matters (rotate each block 180) then there are eight (or 16?) configurations to wring two blocks… ugh! OK, let’s assume, the “cow is a perfect sphere” then if there are 81 blocks in a set and one can use all of them to create “a width”… the possibilities are huge! The math reads- n! = 81! = ~6 x 10e120 (big). If you typically use two at a time to create an accurate width, no repetitions and the order of wringing matters (permutations) the selection reduces… the math is n!/(n-k)!. n = number of Jo Blocks, k = how many you use to create a “width”- 81!/(81-2)! = 6480. One more, if we go “simple” and say something like, “81 blocks available, pick any 2”, the “combinations” (no repetition, order doesn’t matter) reduce further. The math is n!/(k!(n-k)!) = 81!/(2!(81-2)!) = 3240. 😊
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you, that is an interesting observation. In a future video, I will show the doall Book. The book lists the 10,000 possibilities for stacking the blocks up to 1 inch. Using the 81 block in the Set. Also possibilities if you have more than one set. The book is 3/4 of an inch thick
@ericchilton3781
5 жыл бұрын
lol also i would like to dig thru your trash if your throwing away good stuff lol..........
@debonh3828
5 жыл бұрын
MJ Allen, in the UK, have the trade name 'verdict' for their indicators mjallen.co.uk/catalogue/metrology-catalogue I have an early type, (engraved Verdict Junior England) similar to your ideal, but with centre 0, +- 001", and only one needle.(British Pat 574225) Being small, it is ideal for aligning vices, eliminating run-out/whatever.
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks
@gretah3969
2 жыл бұрын
I like Maudsley's name for the bench micrometer he created (one of the first micrometers to measure to tenth thousands of an inch) in his shop, "he called it the "Lord Chancellor", as it was used to settle any questions regarding accuracy of workmanship." The Lord Chancellor being a member of the English government and head of the judiciary.
@mrpete222
2 жыл бұрын
I never heard that before, I love it. Most appropriate
@Aetherling
Жыл бұрын
I carried out the assignment Sir!
@slypig24
5 жыл бұрын
I did my required reading Mr Pete. I found both pages very intresting. So many good links to click on and read. I bet Wikipedia have noticed a large spike of people viewing those pages thanks to you. We had our Apprentice Training Master, Mr Ray Benson. (In Australia trade called "Fitter & Turner" ) You remind me of him.. Thanks.
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks 👍
@Mentorcase
5 жыл бұрын
I would only ever use them as a comparator.
@jimiredhouse2169
4 жыл бұрын
Hello MrPete Greetings from Great Britain. I have a set of the Johansson Ford blocks in Original Bakelite box. Keep up the great videos,and look after your self.
@mrpete222
4 жыл бұрын
👍👍Thank you
@danedewaard8215
5 жыл бұрын
Hats off to you and Mr. Johansson! Please check me off for completion of the homework assignment. As for the Extra Credit, I only skimmed the "Gauge Block" article. I do hope, some day, to get out of the corner and remove that stupid paint strainer from my head!
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
lol
@glennschemitsch8341
5 жыл бұрын
ok Mr. Pete, we know that you never throw anything away. LOL. When I was working, we just bought new gage block sets that were Chinese made as it was far cheaper to buy new ones rather than pay for calibration. At the time, 6 years ago, you could buy them on sale for under $ 100.00 USD and they came with certification. Good to see that you moved the gage blocks to the indicator as you never move the indicator to the piecework, also do not moving directly towards the indicator stylus, but at a sideways movement, or from the hinge side. there is less chance of ' bouncing ' the set up. Lever indicators were never meant to check multiple heights, only used for repeatability due to cosine errors. You need to get your hands on an Interapid or an Alina .0001 indicator if you can. Then you can have some real fun with testing. have fun !
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks. I think I have an interapid
@keithd9416
5 жыл бұрын
The primary pivot shows considerable slop, indicating it is severely worn thus causing the error measured. A challenge or the old eyes would be to manufacture a new bushing to restore it to useful condition. I'm seventy four and have several magnifying devices for the times I stupidly try something like that (lol). Love your videos. From "downunder".
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks
@luc4sj3
3 жыл бұрын
Well, It may be too late, but coincidentally i have searched about such "gearless indicators" before. I think the original patent is more likely be this one: patents.google.com/patent/US2091376A/en. Personaly, I think it's possible to achieve precision and repetability with this mechanism, but some care must be taken, specially because of backlash and wear on contact surfaces.
@mrpete222
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks
@pgs8597
5 жыл бұрын
G’day Mr Pete, the Ideal was not so Ideal but I’d still like to have one Cheers Peter
@luderickwong
5 жыл бұрын
Sir, i have to introduce a youtuber name Uri Tuchman, he just hand made a similar indicator, he is kind of a middleage craftman more than a 20 century machinist. With some crazy details on simple items and educated twist humour that can make you laugh, definitely worth looking. Don't miss that guy, he had skill, humour and some diy power
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you, I just watch the one on the indicator. Then subscribed. I have a little trouble understanding him. He is quite an artist.
@mikemoore9757
5 жыл бұрын
I would assume that one that measured in angstroms would be called The Gospel indicator. LOL.
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
lol
@t.d.mich.7064
Жыл бұрын
The Ideal is old and the pivot point is worn. I doubt that jewels were used in its manufacture. The most common area of usage would naturally be somewhere in the middle of the scale. That put all the wear in that area of the pivot points. Imagine someone letting the lathe spindle run while checking run out of workpiece.
@mrpete222
Жыл бұрын
Great analysis
@TheDisorderly1
5 жыл бұрын
I like the video. Just one question for the teacher though. Having seen the inside of this indicator I can't imagine how it has become inaccurate. Do you have any ideas about why it reads .001 fine but .010 is off?
@BrooksMoses
5 жыл бұрын
I'd guess it was never quite accurate in the first place.
@DjRjSolarStar
5 жыл бұрын
I generally cover my gauge blocks in medium weight oil before putting them away. Is this an acceptable method? or should they be dry for some reason?
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
That's probably fine
@bobjimenez4464
Жыл бұрын
Our tool room grinder from Manila said that they didn't have any fancy test indicators during his machinist training. They used a piece of wire mounted on a pivot point to dial in the parts. This is the same principle as your antique test indicator without the graduations on the scale. they probably had a weight on the side of the wire contacting the part to keep it engaged with the surface of the part being dialed in.
@mrpete222
Жыл бұрын
Interesting!
@ianbertenshaw4350
5 жыл бұрын
Considering how basic the mechanism is on that indicator and god only knows how much wear it has a thou and a half error is pretty good ! You most certainly couldn’t centre a piece in a four jaw chuck using the old surface or scribe gauge any better than that . P.S i love my little last word indicator ! Even though i have indicators made Switzerland i still reach for that little Starrett unit every time .
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks
@cosimomarotta9552
5 жыл бұрын
Sometimes imagination capture our mind. And i can only imagine what that ford stamped blocks or bs were used to measure or build. And who were the men used them. That's why sometimes is better to collect something instead throwing it away.
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
Yes
@ZippoVarga
5 жыл бұрын
Always a pleasure Lyle! Cheers my Friend! Zip~
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks
@MrShobar
5 жыл бұрын
Other manufacturers made similar test indicators. I have a few of the Lufkin 199 (199A) indicators from the 1950's. I still use them sometimes. Here's a couple of patents you may want to look at: USP 2090495 and USP 228497 both to Witchger and assigned to the Lufkin Rule Co.
@jameswilliamson4856
5 жыл бұрын
That didn't look anything like I imagined inside. It's much more simple.
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
Yes
@EVILDR235
5 жыл бұрын
I read about Joe Block and how he started the tax company and, huh, what ? Never mind.
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
That was Hal block.
@CjHAnderson
5 жыл бұрын
A very practical way to check my old indicators- Thanks Mr. P.
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks
@howardhilson2374
5 жыл бұрын
Mr. Pete, I have a small collection of vintage mechanical test indicators. The Ideal is my favorite. I bought it on EBAY for $3.00. Coincidently, the original price was $3.00. It is so compact. I keep it set up in a QC toolholder on my 12in. Atlas lathe. I get very good results indicating my work. Thanks for all the great videos. Howie
@davidjames1007
Жыл бұрын
Thank you, fun to see those old tools
@CrazyTony65
5 жыл бұрын
Test indicators aren't supposed to be accurate, they're supposed to be used for comparison. As an assignment to you, go watch one of your buddy This Old Tony's video on "Cosine Error". Anyways, I have an old Ideal indicator that looks even cheaper made than the one you have. Watch for wear on the "ball", mine has a bunch (this can happen to any ball on an indicator stem, even if carbide).
@bobvines00
5 жыл бұрын
Lyle, Here's my vote for more technology history! I find it fascinating too.
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
👍👍
@mattiase1876
5 жыл бұрын
The reading depends on the angle of the indicator due to cosine error. If you set the ideal indicator at an higher angle the reading shuld get better. Correct me i’m wrong.
@mattiase1876
5 жыл бұрын
Should*
@michaelfiller3452
5 жыл бұрын
Another informative video, THANKS! The set up did with the IDEAL might not be ideal. You might get better results if you think of the 5 on the indicator as your zero. In effect preload the mechanism. Then change blocks to add/subtract up to .005 That might (should) yield better results. I would never trust test or dial indicators for anything but "relative", and that means start in the middle. Long winded 2 cents worth.
@RasaelX
5 жыл бұрын
Can the "Ideal" Indicator be calibrated by moving scale farder from the axis? At 20:00 it seems tkat someone tried to move it, or it would be part of calibration process at the factory. Probe seems to be wotn out between 3 and 10 (not perfectly spherical), so that would be part of the problem as well. [ I'm not an engineer, and English is not my first language, so have mercy upon my soul ;) ]
@edmundmatthews3180
5 жыл бұрын
I hope you're ok after the Harbor Freight visit. ...?? I go there occasionally. I like to look around. Once in a while I will buy something. I assume you exchanged the first caliper... Thanks again for your great knowledge. Really like the historical significance of tools. Amazing how many tool manufacturers there are.
@Gary.7920
5 жыл бұрын
I really enjoyed your Video on Carl Johansson. Thank you. I felt that I was right back in shop class oh so many years ago. I can still see my shop teacher, and I sware that I heard his voice when you gave out the assignment. I did both assignments by the way. I am anxiously awaiting your follow-on using calipers. Thanks Again Gary 75-Year-Old Home-Shop-Machinist in North West Arkansas
@stanwooddave9758
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing. Maybe someone might be able to answer my question. I find it odd, that after Henry Ford purchase / brought out C. E. Johansson, that he allowed C. E. Johansson, to have if you will top billing. I would have expected it to be Ford / C. E. Johansson. Was this maybe just part of the purchase arrangement C. E. Johansson, insisted upon, as a condition of the sale?
@samshublom8761
5 жыл бұрын
I have a Lufkin 199 lever type indicator. It looses .001 in .010 travel. As I am aware of its short comings, I can make it work. And considering most of my work is lucky to be in plus or minus 1/8" range, it is accurate enough. I really enjoyed this video.
@troyken9960
5 жыл бұрын
I have the Starrett version of the Ideal mechanical indicator. I tested it against a milling machine DRO and it was accurate to better than .001" across the range. I bought it on ebay for centering in a four jaw. It was cheap and featured in the Henry Ford Trade School book. I wonder if your indicator accuracy would improve with a cleaning and oiling? Loved the video by the way, thanks.
@dannywilsher4165
5 жыл бұрын
Good job Mr. Pete! I love history!!!
@PaulSteMarie
5 жыл бұрын
I'm not certain it's really fair to say the old one is "unusable". For most purposes you only care about a null measurement, and I don't know how accurate the graduation were intended to be. I'd suggest taking a sine bar, with a 1-2 thou difference between the ends, and sweeping its length to see if the indicator is sensitive and smooth enough to detect the difference. The Last Word, in particular, has a bit of a reputation for getting sticky. The mechanism uses a ruby with a helical groove inside that is apparently quite delicate. Mine works fine, but I am careful with it and it's not seeing daily use in a working machine shop, just light hobby use. As far as possible combinations of gage blocks, an 81 piece set with no duplicates would have 2^81 combinations, roughly 2.4x10^24. At this point you're probably sorry you smashed that nice old slide rule 😎
@ChadHHC86
5 жыл бұрын
You could try that again on the other side I think if you look at the tip you will find one side is no longer round and since the unit read low at the top of its range I'm going to guess that the back side is slightly flattened do to wear and not being round is the number one reason to reject
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
Good idea
@jmh8743
5 жыл бұрын
Tough home work. History is important. How was this part made? Very important. As a old I surveyor followed in original footsteps.
@longshot789
5 жыл бұрын
What kind of effect would wear have on the indicator? I'm assuming it would slowly diminish/divide the recorded measurement as the contact surfaces wear away from one another.
@billrich9129
5 жыл бұрын
Love the videos and the your monologue! Vary informative. I did see this exact indicator demonstrated on KZitem with the tare down, just can't remember who did it. When I started watching yours, I thought it was the same video and had to check the date. Maybe someone here would know. PS- you do remind me of my past shop teachers, and now your my KZitem shop teacher, so now off to do my homework...
@johnjohn-ed9qt
5 жыл бұрын
Nice video. The flex in the body is probably due to the mounting system. The screw (from the inside) that provides the mounting point may have some play. I loctited all of mine (6? 7? of them) to address that. The stock clamp can be tightened to remove play, as well. The screw is inside the body near the ball, and the screw at the bottom needs to come out to reach it (presuming it is the same design as mine). Somewhere, I have ads for these, as well as the patent (electronic), and an original instruction sheet. The accuracy isn't great, but when the unit is tight, it is better than shown here, and the error is pretty linear over the range. I prefer the Lufkin 199A, myself, but I only own one. Or a Starrett 64. Not so fond of the Starrett 564, though. The ball that allows rotation tends to be sticky (three examples, including one bought new about 20 years ago all have the same behaviour). The Ideal's seem to fall from the trees in my area. Also note that an Ideal is on the Wikipedia page for indicators.
@dannyl2598
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you Mr Pete. I have a partial set of miss matched gauge blocks and there are some with Johansen, Ford and Brown & Sharp. I also saw the calibration video that you mentioned.
@ralphgould2783
5 жыл бұрын
Mr. Pete, Could you talk about the various grades of gage blocks. What grade will work for the home shop?
@4speed3pedals
5 жыл бұрын
"Rewinding" the video a few times after you opened the case, you can see there is wear in the pivots as the indicator point/lever was actuated. Just send it back to the manufacturer for repairs. lol. Imagine locating a replacement spring and then replacing it? Delicate and crude but, it worked. Nice relic.
@tonywildschutz1646
5 жыл бұрын
made in rochester new york i have 5 different ones they work great mine were working fine mr pete for 35byears
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
👍
@paulgolfetto3966
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks again for another great video. I wish to take exception with one of your statements. When you started to disassemble the ideal indicator you said,"this is a job for a jeweler." I think you might have met a watchmaker since jewelers make jewelry and for the most part do not repair watches or other small instruments. I hope that no one thinks this is too critical since I love watching these videos. Paul.
@CreaseysWorkshop
5 жыл бұрын
Did you get it back together? I'm guessing you did!
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
Yes
@John_Ridley
5 жыл бұрын
Wikipedia links: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Edvard_Johansson en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_block
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks
@pekkasaarinen2902
5 жыл бұрын
Went and read both articles. Now waiting for that extra credit..
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
lol
@gregfeneis609
5 жыл бұрын
I think the ideal mechanism is subject to sin error if you try to test it through a large enough range
@mrpete222
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks
@445supermag
5 жыл бұрын
My grandfather was a tool and die maker, and he had one of the those Ideal indicators, it was what I used as a kid. I remember when using it my father talking about the superior Last Word indicators so they became a little legendary in my mind. I never saw one until I started working in a job shop.
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