Hey, very cool video. Nice pictures too. Fun to watch. How much current feeds into the lead acid to trickle charge them at high SOC? Have you tracked what happens with a shunt between your batteries over a typical night? At low SOC, it would seem the lead acid is reducing the performance of your system. Considering that the LiFePO4 wants to keep the voltage high, you couldn't use most of the capacity of your lead bank. I suppose the bms could disconnect and reconnect, but the differing internal resistances disconnecting and reconnecting seem a bit scary. I suppose the lead acid does act as a buffer. Hmmm. I would have to see how they feed each other over a cycle. That is difficult to do without a data logging device. Have you done that yet? I see, so small lithium battery, big lead bank. Hmm I suppose that is attractive for a marine system. Have you done a full capacity test? How deeply do you discharge your bank? If you keep this bank at high SOC, and none of the cells short, it would probably work fine. Good point about setting absorption at 14V. Very true. The prices of lifepo4 are dropping quickly. I built a 280Ah 12V pack for $580 this week. That is cheaper than high quality lead acid, if coulombic efficiency and usable capacity are taken into consideration. You should try LTO. LiFePO4 is touchy, but that is only if you do not have a BMS. LTO would destroy every downside of LiFePO4 you mentioned. You can discharge at 10C rate! You can start any size engine with a modest size pack. You would love them I bet. Everything you stated in this video screams LTO. I did try paralleling LTO and LiFePO4 some years ago, and it was horrible. My capacity test results were awful. LTO has a wider voltage range, and more linear. And my test results were awful because of it. The cells would feed each other constantly. Very inefficient. Trickle charging lead acid all night with lithium seems very inefficient. I suppose if your loads are small, you can do it. Just that difference in voltage at various SOC makes me cringe. But yeah, do you have any data logged on how the batteries feed each other during a full cycle?? I would love to see it.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for writing. I've been subscribed to your channel for quite some time now and when I meet sailors with questions about lithium I send them your way first. You do a great channel with reliable information and a very approachable style. I have been living off sun and wind for over 20 years on this boat traveling around the warm parts of the world. I started this hybrid system just over a year and a half ago. I already had a huge (1500ah) agm lead bank in great condition but I wanted to add an air conditioner I was designing and didn't want to cycle the lead that much. The life cycle loss and just plain inefficiencies of lead made that not a great idea. I was first going to set up some kind of DC/DC charge system but soon fell on this idea. I must say it has been working extremely well. So my system consists of just over 1400ah of AGM L-16 sized main house batteries. There is also a small agm and a flooded lead starter battery tied in through a voltage sensitive relay. I added two Battleborn LiFePO4 batteries during my last big refit in the US. With the "rest" voltage differences this system uses most of the power in the Li bank first before dipping into the lead. That is what makes this work so well. Also, as you pointed out, the Lead has a relatively high internal resistance. This actually helps a lot with keeping everything safe. On a typical night even with the use of air conditioning we don't deplete the lithium bank and usually wake to a system voltage of over 13.0 volts. At this state the lead is still fully charged. So it is seldom that the lead goes into low state of charge. It happens only when we have had days without sun or wind. I was surprised to find that the lead bank uses 0.5amps to hold itself at 13.2v. So if we have, say, 14 hours without charging that wastes 7ah of power. That is less then what I would loose through inefficiencies charging and discharging a pure lead bank so I'm ahead of the game ah wise already. When we go several days without sun or enough wind we do dip into the lead. During this time the Li still is very helpful. Lead will not take a charge as fast as Li and often one finds they waste power just regulating it away. With this set up the Li acts as a capacitor in a way accepting all the power and trickling it into the lead later if necessary. Not perfectly efficient but this is a rare occurrence. Over a few days the lead and Li get fully charged and all is well again. Voyaging boats are a bit different then houses and campers. When things fail we often can't go to the shop and get a replacement. And we rely on our power a bit more heavily. Not only do we have lighting and refrigeration but engine starting autopilot and navigation are hard to live without. I've been hit by lightning several times (kzitem.info/news/bejne/sauos3tthHqVimk) I'm concerned what that would do to a BMS. So having lead on board feels safer. Also, there are a LOT of boats that aren't going to Li until they need to replace there current lead. After all the batteries you already have are free. You might also find this video interesting (kzitem.info/news/bejne/1KeKmGuBm6qDmJg) It's sort of the other side of the coin, why you might actually want to add a Lead battery to your Lithium bank. After doing these videos a couple of things have happened. One is my flooded starter battery failed in a dead short manor. It took a while for me to notice since all we had as a symptom was a slowly falling voltage and (I wish I would have noticed this earlier) our water from the taps was getting warmer due to the filters being near the failing battery. There were no real dangers. The system depleted it's self into the bad battery, final system voltage got to 12.6v. I just had to remove the bad battery from the system and start my generator for the first time in years to boost everything back up since we were having a long rainy spell at the time. The other thing that happened turned out even more interesting. Many people questioned how I was charging my batteries. Just charging them together isn't optimum and it got me thinking - what would be perfect? Well, I have since developed a hybrid lithium charge controller. It's at the breadboard stage now but working fine. I just got the components this week so I can solder up the finished model. This device does two things. It disconnects the Lithium part of the bank once they are fully charged so the Lead can charge fully on it's own. And, possibly more importantly, it reconnects the Lithium when both sides of the bank are at the same voltage so there is no large inrush current. This is the key that makes this idea work for more people. I'd like the chance to chat with you about this. Would you be up for a phone call sometime? I have a US number and good data connections here in the Dominican Republic. I'll send you a personal message on the email listed on your website. I expect to do a video on my charge controller soon to finish up this series. I will make the design publicly available and might even do a short production run and sell the units if I find someone on land that is interested to be involved as I can't ship things from the boat especially when I'm voyaging.
@WillProwse
3 жыл бұрын
@@Clarks-Adventure oh hey!! Thank you and yeah sounds great, email me anytime 😁👍
@WillProwse
3 жыл бұрын
@@Clarks-Adventure good points you make about voyage boats. And the lighting and bms. That would surely fry the fets if a long conductor in your system accumulated enough charge to cause voltage spike. Would be fun to measure that. Wow, so many factors in marine systems. Very interesting
@DougQuance
3 жыл бұрын
@@Clarks-Adventure I would be interested in your beta release of the charge controller. Like many other RVers who have a limited existing system (2x12v FLA batts with 2000w modified sine wave inverter/charger) I am looking to add LiFePO4 batteries to augment my capacity - but I would like to charge those batteries as quickly as possible while running the generator or connected to shore power. I know that's not in your current wheelhouse... but if you have a good idea - I'm all ears.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
That's exactly what this device is for. Stay tuned.
@n176ldesperanza7
2 жыл бұрын
The engineers, who comprise but a tiny fraction of the population, have built the world we live in. May God bless and protect the engineers.
@benkanobe7500
Жыл бұрын
Thank You
@frankbuckwalter9603
11 ай бұрын
Thank you ! Amen
@gdargan7754
Ай бұрын
Thank you! You're giving us too much credit.
@bobuncle8704
3 жыл бұрын
This makes so much sense. Most people so far knock either one or the other, but what you say makes so much sense. As I’ve said many times. I never watch an Emily and Clark episode that I don’t learn something. I hope to be building a system in the future, and this is fantastic insight and information. Isn’t it interesting how having an open mind can lead to better understanding.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Bob. When you get close talk to me. I'm working with a guy on a really cool BMS that is all about hybrid packs.
@jonathanchodos1352
3 жыл бұрын
I have been putting together a big system on my boat and had this idea for a different reason. Lithium can take a charge faster than lead, and lead benefits from being float charged to get from 85-90% up to 100%, but it takes a LONG time. So my idea was charge everything until the lead hits 80% (at which time the Lithium should be fully charged). Then shut down the generator and have the lithium - through a battery to battery charger like the Sterling or Victron- to bring the lead up to max over the next few hours. Now you have a full lead bank, but a lower lithium bank. To your point, you can now use the lead to supplement the lithium through a smart battery connect until the lead hits 50%. At that point the lithium can go a little longer until its at 30%. At that point you have to re-charge. Main point is you can reduce your charge time as the charge acceptance rate of the lithium is so much higher than the lead. This assumes no solar. Of course, if you have solar, charge time is even lower as the solar - or wind - has reduced discharge. We both agree, reducing generator run time is the goal! Great idea and great video.
@wildebuscampersandelectric1855
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for posting a link to my Article :) It is early days since I made my Hybrid Lithium-Lead (more precisely Hybrid LiFePO4-PbC) Bank but from the analysis (not just the three days used for the charting in the writeup but continuous 24/7 minute-by-minute data logging over many charge and discharge cycles), I am convinced the theories convert to a practical setup with some distinct advantages over pure lead OR pure lithium.
@quann7747
5 ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing, best video I’ve seen on this topic.
@Clarks-Adventure
5 ай бұрын
Have you seen this? www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms
@quann7747
5 ай бұрын
I have not lol, thanks🎉 glad for the informative explanation in this video anyhow
@wardnewlon8123
3 жыл бұрын
Brilliant! You guys are one of my favorite shows. I think you’re doing a wonderful job. Not sure I mentioned it but I put together a 12v hookah based on yours from a video and that video was when I realized you had a KZitem channel. That hookah works great btw. Side note, I run all Li except lead on the starter. I have 3x100ah at about $3k for the batteries alone. That’s more than a months supply of Kalik beer. Wish you made this video a year ago😂
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Ward. Glad the hookah is working for you. It's a nice piece of gear to have around isn't it? How about sharing our videos with friends on social media. We would appreciate the new viewers.
@TheProjectOverload
3 жыл бұрын
Great video - A very interesting concept. I'm saving this for off grid housing in the future. Thanks for sharing!
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Did you ever see Emily's tiny house videos on this channel?
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Also, Would you consider sharing this video with your friends on social media?
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Hi all, I'm glad so many people are finding this interesting. I'm enjoying all the comments and it seems like you'd like another video or two on the subject. Problem is I just can't keep up with individual technical questions over comments. This subject is a bit complex and relies on a certain knowledge of how electricity works and flows. It seems obvious from the questions that many of you have some misunderstandings in this area. I just can't do a complete answer to your questions and know I'm not adding to the confusion while typing on my little phone screen. My offer to do detailed help over patreon stands. I'll answer simple questions at most levels and at our "dream believers" level I'll do my best to do a proper job with individual analysis of your needs and education over the phone. Also, I had an idea yesterday for a device. Talked to a really talented EE friend back in the states. I think we will make them for sale. It's a lithium battery charger that is made especially for li/lead hybrid systems. Not a dc/dc converter. Allows your existing lead chargers and regulators to charge the li part exactly like it wants to be charged but still charge the lead as it needs. No trade-offs. Do you think people would want such a device?
@andrewcastille7781
3 жыл бұрын
Your entire video I was trying figure out the best way to charge this system. I actually have a relatively small setup where I am trying to develop systems that are ideal for colder climates that limited amounts of sun. I am currently using 2 100Ah lead and 4 100Ah and a MPPT charge controller and DC-DC charger.
@deepsea5107
3 жыл бұрын
Absolutely would be interested in a li/lead hybrid charger!
@montanadan2524
3 жыл бұрын
Clark, I'm guessing there may be interest but in my opinion, very few will be willing to pay. The typical boater will not do anything unless there is a need. Take me for example, the bank on the boat we purchased was AGM of a unknown age however the PO seems to remember having them replaced about 12 years ago. Last spring they where flat and I was unable to bring them back so investigation of the replacement type began. I do not assert that I am an expert in the battery field but based on my circumstances, the choice was relatively easy. Our boat came with a quality 30 amp marine smart charger and a high output alternator setup for AGM. I am also some what of a thrifty individual and only plan on owning the boat for a maximum of five years. Those circumstances pushed me to AGM as the replacement as lithium ROI comes from the long term. Our new three house bank batteries come in under 300 ah and we run the normal anchor out/navigation loads plus a 24/7 Iceco portable 12 vdc compressor freezer ( I like ice cream, seafood and meat). The battery bank (from Battery Plus) has a three year replacement warrenty. I am able to run the original ice box refrigeration but not continuously but it works for us. Adding solar this coming season (probably 400 watts max) which may help with the built in frig run time. We do have a slip but typically anchor out three to four nights a week and will be traveling through the Great Lakes and East Coast and beyond once we feel comfortable traveling again. OK so I fall into the lazy/cheap group as noted above. The other obstacle you will have to consider is the battery vendors themselves, pretty sure you have difficulty finding any of them who will warrenty mixed types. The last potential obstacle I anticipate, is it has to meet code so insurance companies cover losses. Anyway, appreciate the opportunity to respond to your question.
@ericmedina7935
3 жыл бұрын
Heck yes!!!
@jochenschrey2909
3 жыл бұрын
"Maybe", I'd need a small version for tent and motorcycle.
@1datsunlover
3 жыл бұрын
That's my experimental battery setup for my little macgregor! Works great in my mind, so happy to see it's as wise as I thought! I stacked 18650 to make an independant low draw system li ion. I wanted an electric trolling motor as a backup, and knew my system wasn't up to high draw, and got lead acid to be charged by the li ion.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Li-ion and Lifepo4 are different animals with very different requirements. I've put no thought into doing this with Li-ion. But, very glad it is working for you.
@cal88meeks
3 жыл бұрын
I moved up from a MAC 26x to an Irwin 43. Learned and loved my 26X.
@masonberg4491
3 жыл бұрын
Pretty clever! Great explanation 👍🏻 Ever considered a career as a teacher? 🤓 Thanks for sharing!
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
You're welcome Matze. Some would say I'm always a teacher. Even when I was an engineer I felt it was part of my job to guide junior engineers.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Would you consider sharing this video with your friends on social media?
@masonberg4491
3 жыл бұрын
@@Clarks-Adventure Yes I will 👍🏻 I dont know a lot of people with a boat lifestyle such as you, but there might be other possibilities to use this knowledge. I got a friend with a pretty remote fishing lodge. I think for him this could be quite useful 🙏🏻
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Matze. I appreciate it. I agree that this is a worthy idea for any off grid designer. I'd like to get it out there. I'm talking with a guy who has a great idea for a hybrid specific BMS. Probably do another video on that soon.
@masonberg4491
3 жыл бұрын
@@Clarks-Adventure Great, looking forward to it! Specific BMS would make it a lot more accessible for people without engineering background. 👍🏻
@PierceAlexanderLilholt
3 жыл бұрын
I don't know what I just learned about batteries... I feel like I learned a lot! If you ever see a 23 foot sailboat with huge letters on the side that say Floaty Boat, raft up with me because I owe you dinner! ⛵ 🔥
@Len02013
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks. Great video & very smart use of both types of batteries :)
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
You're welcome Len
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Would you consider sharing this video with your friends on social media?
@JeffErdmann
3 жыл бұрын
Hey Clark, This is the first time I've heard of doing this. I like the concept and wonder if you could explain your "dockside" charging system using shore power and a 120v charger and engine alternator charging or do you charge with solar exclusively?
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
We are really a solar boat. We have a big alternator but it only runs when we motor and we try not to do that much. We have a 50a ac charger but we never plug into shore side. We are a solar (and sometimes wind) powered boat.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Jeff, Would you consider sharing this video with your friends on social media?
@JeffErdmann
3 жыл бұрын
@@Clarks-Adventurewill do I'm on FB & LinkedIn.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks. Sorry for the other message. I misread your comment.
I just bought 2x140ah agms to add to my original 105ah agm and now I will use this information to add lipo in the future, thanks.
@ReeceCaruso
3 жыл бұрын
These are really good suggestions! and this is such an important topic to be discussing at the moment, I really enjoyed the video!
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Reece. Please consider sharing this video with your friends on social media.
@leeluck1968
3 жыл бұрын
Very interesting video. Well done! I had plans to exchange from AGM to Lithium, but after your video I made up my mind and I will definitely dig into this a bit more and probably ask your advice on Patreon.Thank you!
@DutchAussieProductions
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video. This made a lot of sense to me. I will have a good look at your other videos. Have a nice day.
@ShaneEngelman
3 жыл бұрын
Nice Ericson in the background. I'm on a 36C. 'Compliments to the captain!
@matthewlutter3745
9 ай бұрын
Fantastic video thank you. I am struggling with a cheaper brand DC DC charger that gets so hot as soon as I plug in my lead engine battery. I mean hot! So I've bought a victron today to hopefully lower significantly the temp. Fingers crossed victron has addressed this common problem as people are fitting fans to their DC DC array!
@Clarks-Adventure
9 ай бұрын
I'd return the Victron and use my BankManager. It doesn't get hot because it doesn't waste energy. But most importantly it charges your lithium batteries correctly for a long life! www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms
@sailingrollingstone8723
3 жыл бұрын
Clark thank you so much for this. I have been contemplating just how to integrate some lithium into my system... you have thought 'outside the box' on this one and given some awesome info here. Million thanks.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
I'm just finishing up development on a circuit that will charge both types of batteries exactly as they would like to be charged. Should be available soon
@charlesfichter9942
3 жыл бұрын
Wow! I've been working with Lithium for about 5 years now, building astronomy rigs for mobile DC systems. I never realized you could mix with lead acid, this explanation was terrific and I love your strategy. I've been watching you for some time, thank you for everything! I took up sailing this past year, and have been considering buying an older sailboat and refitting myself, and I was going to go pure lithium - but I love the idea of cheaper lead acid. I think for the pros of lead acid - the extra weight for ballast? Thanks again - I'd love to hear about your AC setup though - with kick and overall amp run - you would need a significant amount of batteries for multi-hour AC no? Some actual numbers of what you burn in amps per day with AC would be super useful thank you.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Charles. You aren't alone in wanting to know about my AC. It runs all night in the tropics easily off 2 100amp lifepo4s. It's quite adjustable. As I have it set up it draws about 15 amps at 12 volts and once it gets the cabin cooled it runs about 1/4 of the time through the night. Video is coming but I had to explain how to power it first. Some have already signed up to my Patreon to get help building their own. I'm currently writing a video to go with this one. The next is why it's good to include some lead in your system even if you are going all lithium.
@globaltileworx
2 жыл бұрын
This info is priceless. This has been so helpful in my decision making regardig similar issues with my pocket cruising boat 🤗
@Clarks-Adventure
2 жыл бұрын
You're welcome. You should consider one of these. www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms Since this video I've realized that no charge controller is charging lithium "correctly" and just connecting the batteries can leave lead not fully charged. This device takes care of your individual battery banks.
@BKElectronic
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks I am also trying this on my channel but my lead bank is small to help lead inverter
@Clarks-Adventure
2 жыл бұрын
Since I did this video I've found a better way to do this. www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms Charges the lead fully and seems to be the only way to not cause "low current overcharge" of the lithium.
@MICHELDILLIONS
3 жыл бұрын
again very nice explanation , thank you , Blessings
@josepeixoto3384
2 жыл бұрын
Wow, youtube algorithm is something; i have been combining both types for 2 months now; now let me watch your video here,and read the comments..
@Clarks-Adventure
2 жыл бұрын
Give this a look as well. It's how I'm doing it now. www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms
@sollasollew3208
3 жыл бұрын
You're the evil genius without the evil.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Wish I knew how to spell "insert evil laugh here"
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Solla, Would you consider sharing this video with your friends on social media?
@sollasollew3208
3 жыл бұрын
@@Clarks-Adventureabsolutely
@99Jeep2008
3 жыл бұрын
Clark always thinks outside the box!
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Jeep. Would you consider sharing this video with your friends on social media?
@caparn100
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the video. It is very interesting. I really think you might be onto something here.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
You're very welcome caparn
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Would you consider sharing this video with your friends on social media?
@leemartin2059
Жыл бұрын
Awesome 👏 video
@Clarks-Adventure
Жыл бұрын
Thanks, That's quite an old video. This is how I'm doing it now. www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms
@mobracska
Жыл бұрын
Wow. I found this video by searching for this topic, because i have had exactly the same idea. Thinking about discharge curves, i had the same ideas: lead will deliver the high power when needed while lifepo would keep the lead voltage up in the longterm. The only difference is that i didn't tought about connectig them via a resistor, but first chargng them separately, instead i was considering adding fuses between them. I'll check the comment section also.
@Clarks-Adventure
Жыл бұрын
Yes, this works great but I'm doing it this way now. www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms Seems to solve all the issues automatically and along the way I found that Liis being charged wrong by other charge controllers. This fixes that issue without having to change any of your current charge controllers
@qualitymushrooms8447
2 жыл бұрын
just done exactly what you said a week ago working good and yes the gell battery must be fully charged first
@Clarks-Adventure
2 жыл бұрын
It's even better with a bbms
@michaelconnell4332
Ай бұрын
Loved it !
@Clarks-Adventure
Ай бұрын
Check this out. It's the very best way to do it now. www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms
@raireva4689
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!.... Getting to start the project using your BBMS
@Clarks-Adventure
Жыл бұрын
Great Are you in the EU? We have some units already imported and ready. If not www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms
@sohgus
3 жыл бұрын
Hey! Nice thinking! I've been thinking along the same lines but got a bit stuck in the float voltage difference problem. I was thinking about having two-way diodes and what not to get a stable voltage drop between the banks to compensate but it felt so complicated. Your idea to just let it float charge the lead bank is clever - it should be just fine. One thing scared me a bit, which I should tell you about. If you connect them as you say, and then, for some unforeseen reason the BMS turns the lithium batteries off. Let's say you bridge the starter and house battery banks or something and you charge it to 14.7V. After the BMS is off the lead acid batteries will start to discharge... at some point, all of a sudden, the BMS turns on again. Then you have an issue. A lot of power will run over those wires as you point out in the video with unbalanced voltages. So I'd suggest you just put a fuse between the banks. Connect every consumer and supplier to the lead side and fuse off the BMS and lithium with like 150A or similar, depending on the use. It might save you from a fire. You might already have a fuse, then this comment hopefully help some other boater who just connects them together. Feel free to send me a message the day that fuse is blown and you don't know why. This is in actually a general problem with all lithium batteries which has individual BMS'es. When they switch on there is potentially a huge current rushing between the batteries. I usually recommend a supplier with a system wide BMS shutdown instead of per-battery partly for this reason.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
I just developed a device that solves all this. It breaks the contact to the li when fully charged and let's the lead finish it's charge cycle. It only reconnects when the voltage of both systems are close. Solves about everything that I can think of. Video to come. Subscribe.
Would you consider sharing this video with your friends on social media?
@sailinggaia3582
3 жыл бұрын
@@Clarks-Adventure you know... i usually dont do that, but you guys are awesome so I will :)
@philbrooke-little7082
3 жыл бұрын
I’ve been running a hybrid system for the past year in the UK with 100Ah lithium and 450Ah lead acid. Being a cheapskate I bought the lithium cells direct from China and assembled them myself and, being a bit of a sad anorak, I decided to make my own BMS specifically geared towards hybrid in its decision making. It controls the lead acid link via a solid state relay for most current draws and a physical relay kicks in for heavy loads. This avoids having to oversize the solid state one. Cold weather is about to be dealt with with heated bus bars but hasn’t been much of a problem. The greatest advantage for me is in winter when I need to run the engine to supplement power use. The Lithium can accept a high current right up to when they are full and this minimises engine running time by using the alternator to best advantage. It also allows the lithium to complete charging the lead acids with power that would otherwise have meant running the engine for hours extra to get a full charge. In conclusion this works extremely well for me, uses the positives of both technologies and mitigates any of their disadvantages.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Phil, Would you please send me a link to your solid state relay? I've not seen one that can work with DC that doesn't cost a lot.
@philbrooke-little7082
3 жыл бұрын
@@Clarks-Adventure I use a 100A one like this www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SSR-100-DD-Solid-State-Module-White-Solid-State-Relay-DC-DC-100A-3-32V-DC-5-60V/143674097560?hash=item2173a4bf98:g:-AMAAOSwHfBfKhda it has to be connected with the positive output terminal to the lead acid which is where all charging and loads go. SSRs have an inbuilt diode that enable power to be used even when charging is cut off. My BMS senses net current and turns it back on when a certain load is sensed. The parallel conventional relay switches in when either charge or load exceeds 30A to avoid the voltage drop in the SSR and having to heatsink it. The conventional relay is PWM controlled by the BMS to give full current to pull the relay in and then a much lower holding current.
@canyonman6492
3 жыл бұрын
i too would like to hear more about your AC system.... please.
@LandyAndy62
3 жыл бұрын
BOS LE300 seems to offer these advantages with built-in BMS that manages the interconnection of the 2 chemistries.
@franktartan6808
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Clark. Will you have an AC presentation?
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
I will make one fairly soon. This was the first step.
@machninety7334
2 жыл бұрын
Right now I have my home network (cable modem, WiFi mesh routers, network switches) running directly off of batteries. I have 2x 100 watt solar panels, 1x 20 watt solar panel, and recently added a windmill. I also keep a battery maintainer, a 2 amp, plugged in at all times. Whenever the grid goes down, I still have WiFi. It’ll last about a week on just solar. I’m using two leaf acid batteries. I want to get the proper wires for my windmill. I used 16awg, but I guess I need 10awg or even 8awg. Ultimately, supporting myself completely off grid is the goal, but it’s so nice to have the grid to keep it topped of for the maybe 7-14 days of the year where their is neither sun or wind. All I need now is to get Starlink, by Tesla, Elon Musks internet service, and I should never lose access to the internet, or pay a monthly fee for the energy to power it.
@williamSailingWindDragon
3 жыл бұрын
The Catamaran we just bought has a solar / lead system already, 5 panels and 7 optima's. If I got one of the new "Solar Generators" and plugged the panels to that instead and added a trickle charger from the solar gen 110v output to the lead acid bank I could maybe achieve the same result???? interesting idea!
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
No. You are doing a lot of expensive voltage conversions that way. My approach is more efficient and flexible. It is better at surviving a component failure. Solar generators are just a hunch of parts out in one box. Nothing new just more expensive and interdependent.
@MiQBohlin
3 жыл бұрын
Interesting! I have to plow a bit deeper into this.
@shamaniclodge348
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you. Even I understood this.
@nicholasbigney4143
3 жыл бұрын
Wow. Timely for me as I am just setting up my charging system on our new-to-us boat. This took some time and thought. Nice job Clark. So you are setting your solar charge controller to the lithium setting as well as your engine charging system and letting lithium batteries manage the lead bank recharging by pretending that the lead bank is just a load like a big light bulb. The lead acts as a buffer for heavy loads and sun-less days so to speak. Is that right? The cyclical deep discharge-charge-discharge-charge cycling is borne by the lithium, which can do that all day. Nice. If the system were to totally discharge totally it would seem that the BMS would lose its mind when charging in parallel with the lead bank and you'd have to disconnect everything and start from scratch. My guess is that this has to be avoided by sizing the lithium bank correctly in the first place. Hmmm. Another question...So do you keep your start battery (lead) discrete, or just let all the batteries play together?
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Close, but not exactly. I really can't keep up with questions individually here. I'll make another video or two on this eventually. Remember my offer to do one on one help over patreon.com if you want more in-depth or timely help.
@MrJeffDemme
3 жыл бұрын
Have you done a video on you air conditioning system? I am an AC/R tech and have some ideas regarding solar powered AC, but have yet to try them seriously. I would love to know what your system is.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Coming. Just a tease for you. It cools one cabin with a max draw of 200watts. Once cooled down it averages under 60watts throughout the night.
@allynonderdonk7577
3 жыл бұрын
You covered pretty much everything there and it all makes loads of sense. The only thing I want to point out is that this setup may make the lithium batteries fail. It is not a mid-voltage issue, your voltages all make sense. The thing is that voltage may be too in the middle. Most lithium battery BMS systems will balance their cells at like 14.6 volts or like around 12 volts....So they top or bottom balance. If you spend too much time in the middle...which is best for the battery longevity in terms of voltage....it may mean the cells never balance. Now this would be different from battery manufacturer to manufacturer...and BMS to BMS...You said that you push the voltage up to 14.0 volts....if you actually are using Battleborn as your diagrams suggest. They will die. Why because Battleborn cells balance at a minimum of 14.2 volts for quite a while. 14.0 volts is too little for a top charge. Now likely you do put in higher voltages than 14.0v while charging, so your cells likely do balance a little while that is going on...the thing is passive balancers take days to do their job sometimes as the current is soooooo verrrrrry looooooow. Likely your cells are very slowly getting out of balance....it could be worse...but it will likely get out of hand at some point.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
That's good information. I'll crank them up to 14.2 now and again. Kinda want to do that for the lead anyway. Though staying below 14.1 I probably could go a long time before any imbalance became problematic. Whatever kind of follow up video I do will include your idea. Thanks Allyn. I'm working with another boater just now on a specialized BMS for mixing lead with lifepo4. Stay tuned for another video. Best feature is it will let the lead charge first then charge the li. Still working out details.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
What I'm also concerned with is holding the LI up to 14 too long. What do you think about that? It's not an issue with my video proposal exactly, more how my personal charge controllers function.
@allynonderdonk7577
3 жыл бұрын
@@Clarks-Adventure Well...most lead acid charges at 14.4ish volts....so running voltages there abouts isn't actually an issue if you don't cook the lead acid or the lithium...I thought top voltage and the "eqalization" voltage according to Victron is 14.4 volts for the Battleborn. You are kinda in between a rock and a hard place. Every once in a while you should take your Li up to pretty close to a full charge so the BMS or in some cases the cells themselves don't "go crazy" too....You could manually reconnect to the lead-acid at just the right time in the charge discharge cycle so those two won't pull too much energy. Maybe a circuit that sees a balance occurring and a contactor...Unfortunately holding the Li above 14. for some extended period is the best option. If you don't do it a lot, it shouldn't take too much of a life cycle off in the long run, and sure beats having a necessary cell failing internally.
@faycalhajjem2996
2 жыл бұрын
Hi 👋 First of all I really appreciate this educative video, I learned a lot already. I was wondering though when connecting the lithium to lead to make sure the lead is not too low and cause damaging surge could I just hook the lithium while the lead battery being charged? Thank you guys !!
@Clarks-Adventure
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Faycal. Yes. That's vital! I think I cover that in the video. Since I filmed this I've found a much better way to do this. This is what I recommend now. www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms
@MwapeDaka
Жыл бұрын
You are a genius 😀
@Clarks-Adventure
Жыл бұрын
Thank you. That's an old video. This is how I'm doing it now. www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms
@TRAINSUP1
2 жыл бұрын
Just found your video. Great Info.. I don't have a boat, I have a Class C RV. Is it possible that this setup could be applied to a RV system? I all ready have (2) 100Ah Battle Born Bat. with the intention off adding 2 more. The 2 Sealed batteries they replaced are brand new, also Go Power 200W Solar Panel all going a IC 3000W Inverter. Would like to make contact with you if this would be a system that could be put together. Have a Blessed Week!
@Clarks-Adventure
2 жыл бұрын
I wrote you on other channels but in case you get this first. Best information so far is at. www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms
@badararfeen3709
Ай бұрын
I'm running my 3.2Kw solar system with 24V tall tubular battery pack. I have 2 lead acid batteries (12V, 185ah each) in series. Selfmade 24V lithium battery pack of 200ah capacity... I'm using both packs in parallel... It's giving too much satisfying results...
@Clarks-Adventure
Ай бұрын
I have two comments. Your system has the potential to charge your Li at more than .5C. That's hard on your batteries you might want to add more Li. And that's an old video. This is a better way to do things. In fact it's the best way to charge LiFePO4 available. www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms
@palanik1960
2 жыл бұрын
Excellent ..No other words to say...
@Clarks-Adventure
2 жыл бұрын
Just finished the bbms. I have 35 of them in hand and will be selling them soon as a first batch.
@palanik1960
2 жыл бұрын
@@Clarks-Adventure I am also thinking using lead acid in parallel with lifepo4 to share the dc load .in this case it is 48v Electric car. My idea is to save lithium battery from heavy current draw and sacrifice cheaper lead acid which can take on heavy current supply for short duration. lifepo4 is 200 Ah and lead acid 40 ah. Will update after execution.
@marscan1
3 жыл бұрын
Clark I'm interested in the rest of your inverter/charger/charge controller system. I have combined Pb and Li-ion for a couple of years, and have used Pb and Li-ion systems for complete off grid power for 20 yrs. Mark
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
I think I'm going to do another couple of videos on this topic. I had an idea yesterday for a device. Talked to a really talented EE friend back in the states. I think we will make them for sale. It's a lithium battery charger that is made especially for li/lead hybrid systems. Not a dc/dc converter. Allows your existing lead chargers and regulators to charge the li part exactly like it wants to be charged but still charge the lead as it needs. Do you think people would want such a device?
@marscan1
3 жыл бұрын
Yes; there is probably a DIY micromarket. Commercialisation is a whole different can of worms. I have some EE contacts that may be helpful. Let me know offline @ markscanlon4@gmail.com
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Yes the marketing and distribution are issues for us. I'm a retired software engineer and a few years ago I did a project with a company that designs and makes, among other things, military spec graphics cards and video compression/capture equipment. Best EE I know is the head of that department, he's helping (In fact he will be the guy soldering them up unless this gets big). If you have any "selling" ideas that would be a help. It would be great if victron or someone would just buy us out.
@finnerutavdet
4 ай бұрын
My ketch is 99% of the time in her berth with shore power. When we're on the blue for some days we need to re-charge from a noisy generator (2KW). She currently has Lead 100Ah, one for start, two for bank-1 and two for bank-2. Those leads are now shrot (drops to 10V after 150W in aprox 0.5-1 hours). So I want to do like in this video (already bought 2x4 LiFePO4 280Ah EVE and waiting for BMS's). .... In order to improve the capacity I'm thinking of having two schotty diodes (200A) in opposite directions and in paralell, between the Lithium and the Lead (for each bank), I think that that way (0.7V drop between them in both directions) I can have an optimised 220V (I'm in Norway) charger for the lead (3x10A), and two other Lithium optimized 220V charger (60A each) for the Lithiums. ...... I think that could work out fine (giving a sensible BMS configuration). ..... We only have 12V equipment in the boat, nothing very power hungry. .... Then when I start the genny, I should be able to charge with 60(Li-1)+60(Li-2)+10(Lead-1)+10(Lead-2)+10(starte-bat) Amps aprox, in "12"V, giving aprox 150Ax12V=1800W which is close to max for the current portable invertergenny of 2Kw, and well within the 3KW of the old MASE genny that I bought and am working on refurbishing and getting into the boat at some future time. ..... That should enable us to fill up a good amount of charge from a generator in for instance an hour of genny running. .... (Not too much sun her in Norway, those who has says it's enough for the fridge and that's it). ..... But I've never ever seen anyone sugesting combining Lead and Lithium with two diodes in between to introduce a 0.7v difference before they start charging each other. .... I think it should work. .... But will be happy to hear if anyone has any comments. ..... Yep, the Clarke manager is probably better, but I want it simple :-). ..... The "dynamo" as we call the 12V generator on the engine, has a regulator (PDAR?) and a tripple diode thereafter, before it's feeding the banks. I think it stops at 14.0V after the diodes.
@Clarks-Adventure
4 ай бұрын
Feel free to implement any system you like but I think the easiest and best performing is my BankManager hybrid system www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms
@finnerutavdet
4 ай бұрын
I should probably route the cables with a possible future upgrade to BB MS in mind then ;-), yes, BBMS should be optimal, but if/when I probably need two as I have two consumer banks.
@Clarks-Adventure
4 ай бұрын
If you put the batteries in one bank one should be fine. Usually if you don't go over 4 batteries and 1000ah and they are all the same age/model you can put them into one bank.
@samp.a.3445
3 жыл бұрын
This is amazing. Have any RV'ers implement this concept ?
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Yes. There is a guy in Scotland who did a complete study. I'll include his work in the next video on my bank manager charge controller.
@colscopters
3 жыл бұрын
I've a small patrol boat it uses lead batteries once they run out I then charge them up the boat is totally electric engine would I get better performance from lithium battery to run the electric engine thanks
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Yes but it's quite a bit more expensive. Consider changing to lithium once your current lead dies.
@toddtavares7386
3 жыл бұрын
How often do you run your wind generator? Do you set it up during long runs of overcast days? Do you leave it up at all times at anchor?
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
I used to run it all the time unless high winds were expected. It's really quiet. But, since the solar/lithium upgrade we never need the power even when running air conditioning. It's still up but tied down because Emily thinks it looks cool.
@kevstan9195
3 жыл бұрын
I have a lead cranking battery, and a second deep cycle battery, can i run an anderson plug into a lithium battery to charge the lithium, whilst driving
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
What type of plug you use has nothing to do with anything. Yes you can charge Lifepo4. You either need your voltage regulators set properly or have one of my BBMSs (battery bank management system)
@LM-ek2hb
3 жыл бұрын
Um... What about the alternator that is likely connected to the LA but would fry itself if suddenly connected to both the LA and the LiFePO4's? I run both types in my RV, but in separate banks with the LiFePO on solar only and LA on the Alternator and a charger that is powered by the LiFePOs.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
It wouldn't suddenly fry. It could overheat. I talk about it here. kzitem.info/news/bejne/1KeKmGuBm6qDmJg
@redwood1957
3 жыл бұрын
Love the idea. Your talking 12 volts. How could this work when you needed 48volts for electric motor, with solar? I would love to see a schematic of your system. Thank you
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Voltage is unimportant. Works the same.
@spanishtreasure9551
10 ай бұрын
you are correct , you can mix them together no matter that the chinese or "professsional" engineers say and they do compliment each other keeping charge and voltage longer / stronger etc, but if you live in land structure , i would make sure batteries are in outside inside of brick enclosure area for fire prevention just for safety precaution, as lithium would be the one that could catch fire~ its a known fact .
@Clarks-Adventure
10 ай бұрын
That "known fact" is really not a thing for LiFePO4 chemistry. It's very difficult to get that chemistry into thermal run away. That's why the others have no place on a boat. Where it might come down to burning or drowning. You might like this. It's how I'm doing it now. www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms
@spanishtreasure9551
10 ай бұрын
@@Clarks-Adventure lots of lithium batteries catching on fire out of nowhere , not due to thermal runaway , just current /amp wire fire shorts causing it, is it bad cheap wires , connectors , over curreneted/amped etc i would say most likely
@kymerdeth
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video, i have 4 12volt 200 ah agm batteries with one 100 ah agm battery all wired in series. I wanted to add one 100 ah lithium battery. But from what i understand 4 is max you should have wired in series because of internal resistance. Any thoughts on how to do this correctly?
@Clarks-Adventure
Жыл бұрын
Sorry but you really don't want to mix battery sizes in series and I really can't think of a reason to mix chemistries in series. So my advice is don't do it. If you meant to say you wish to wire them in parallel this device is exactly for that purpose. www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms
@kymerdeth
Жыл бұрын
@EmilyAndClark yeah I actually have them in parallel not in series just mixed up my wording.
@dymarke
3 жыл бұрын
I really appreciate your making this video, it makes perfect sense. I would sure like to see your bank, visuals are always helpful. I will subscribe to your channel and I hope you will make more videos on this system. I would very much like to know if lithium placement in the series makes any difference and I would like to see your charging system and profile. Thank you.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
There is a new device that I've developed that makes this work much better. I have it running on Temptress and some other boats. Go to the air conditioner video and fill out the survey. Day you are interested in the bank manager and you will be kept informed.
@zinklony
2 жыл бұрын
hi does that implement on mixing lithium battrey with gel or agm battrey thanks alot
@Clarks-Adventure
2 жыл бұрын
I'm using AGM. Gels would work. Like always with gels you must not over charge. Gels aren't as "tough" as the other leads. Since I made this I've made a few other videos where I refined the process. I now have a device (BBMS) that makes this better, safer, and easier. Video on that to come.
@marcioequinautic4531
2 жыл бұрын
Hi Clark, very interesting the vídeo, thank you. According to your suggestion to mix lithium with lead/acid batteries I can suppose that the use of an external alternator regulator will be not necessary as the lead/acid batteries will support the charge without overheat the alternator. So in this case we have just to connect the lithium in the house bank dispensing the temperature sensor in the alternator, right?
@Clarks-Adventure
2 жыл бұрын
Nope. It protects from diode damage but not overheating. BBMS - Lithium and Lead: kzitem.info/door/PLsT7_jPsZM5pApg5I7EPtLd15qXSqZn2U
@temmeberkstresser8989
3 жыл бұрын
Very cool idea ! You could add capacitors for the high momentary start up loads too.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Yes, if I had anything that needed a huge start up surge like an induction motor that would be a great idea.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Temme, Would you consider sharing this video with your friends on social media?
@calvinhenshaw2147
3 жыл бұрын
great video
@letsgetcraftinwithsupreetk669
Жыл бұрын
I like the way u r dressed for making this vdo
@patgarrett8313
3 жыл бұрын
Could you please show a wiring diagram for how you add the lithium battery to the lead battery bank? Are you charging both the lithium and lead batteries together as a single bank? Thanks!
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
All will be answered in upcoming videos. I just finished the prototype for the device I talk about in this video kzitem.info/news/bejne/1KeKmGuBm6qDmJg When it's done I'll do one more video in this subject. The device is a hybrid lithium charge controller. Takes care of charging and recombining mixed battery banks.
@tnekkc
3 жыл бұрын
I have designed battery chargers for defibrillators and Boeing aircraft. I have never heard of paralleling lead acid with Lithium before this video.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Hi Clark, What plane projects were you involved in? I was there for 777 and did another project for them later that helped with generating wiring harness designs.
@tnekkc
3 жыл бұрын
@@Clarks-Adventure I worked on the 767 and 777 battery chargers for ELDEC corp. I designed audio gear for the 767 while at Boeing 1977-1982. At Boing I made system drawings and interfaced with wiring integration. That means I copied a Collins Radio pin out, put it on a drawing and sent it to wiring integration that put it in a wire bundle. Most things to design a 767, I just red lined a 747 drawing. We met schedule. On first time Carbon fiber planes, everything is 18 months late.
@1ohmwrecker
Жыл бұрын
Isolators work great too🤷♂️
@1over137
Жыл бұрын
Public safety announcement: Consult the manufacturer's datasheets for actual numbers. Almost all of the figures given in this video are incorrect or out by an order of 20%! I think Clark needs a new multi-meter and he needs to read said datasheets and come back from his rather dangerous decent into making it up as he goes along. Also. When Clark talks about Lithium he is talking (I believe) exclusively about Lithium Iron Phosphate ,LiFePO4 batteries. Commerical ones. Other lithium chemistries exist and WILL NOT be as tolerant as LFPs. LiPo or Li-Ion batteries behave differently.
@TerrydeAlaska
3 жыл бұрын
Hi Clark, I've watched this video three time now and I never do that on other channels. I sent your video link to Will Prowse to see what he thought about this set-up and I'm glad to see you two are talking. I have one small question; with this set- up it seems a battery monitor, like a Bogart Engineering Trimetric 2030, would not read correctly with the two different chemistries. I look at my Trimetric several times a day to know my state of charge of my AGM batteries and I wonder how you check your system? Thanks Terry
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Hi Terry, Thanks. I'm glad you are enjoying our work. I've found that no battery monitor really works that well. I find if I look at the amps and volts alone I can know the state of the system. I have a monitor. I bought it because I like the size of the display but I've never pushed the button for state if charge. Hech, mine only goes up to 999ah. I just leave it on the amps/volts page. It takes some time to learn the personality of your bank. Anyway that's how I do it. With that method it matters little what batteries are in the system. I guess if you wanted to go hybrid and use monitors you would need two. With that it would work but you would have to add the amps in your head. Still it would be interesting seeing the current flow from first the Li then the Pb.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
I haven't heard back from Will yet but I only wrote him this morning. I'm kinda hoping he would like to finish and sell the hybrid lithium charge controllers. There seems to be a need for the device but I can't ship from the boat. I'll likely find someone. It will be easy profit.
@dharmakissoon
3 жыл бұрын
hey bud how about lead lithium and capacitor! 3 in 1 series , so i have these in a e-ninja bike doesn't have to be solar apps. what i have notice when i ring the throttle a boost or speed increase but for a short time maybe 20 min for me ,i have 6 12v lead and 20 3.7 18650 with the capacitor that i've got from a music amplifier capacitor 12v also cause when i fully charge the lead its 84v and 20 3.7 is 72v and the cap is 12v. it give a burst like cordless dewalt drills or rc hobby cars, hope this make sense.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Im glad you found this worked for you and I see how it would. You should probably think of your capacitor as part of your speed controller and not your power storage system. In fact you will find your speed controller already has some caps on the input side. For our applications they won't really help and there are down sides involving rush currents that need to be dealt with. For example boats with large inverters have to connect them carefully because if their caps.
@dharmakissoon
3 жыл бұрын
@@Clarks-Adventure hello friend you're right, the caps are not storage but just like an rc hobby car or cordless drill ,I do have about 20 minutes of thrust on open full throttle grip.i do have the caps as a storage dummy 12v extra do to I charge the lead acid up to 84volts and the 18650lipo array is only 74volts and the caps makes it 86volts this way none of my 18650 lipo cell don't get hot or explode on me and I can't have that happen I live in NYC lol.
@psunaminami6672
3 жыл бұрын
first ive heard of this and the most interesting video ive seen in a while...i will definitely be watching for updates. could it be as simple as you describe with the different principles of the batteries? would the lithium charge faster than the lead and create a voltage difference that would try to send too many amps into the lead? id be intersted in your hybrid carger if you do end up making them, for sure! a year and a half is good, but i suppose the only way to know for sure is to check back in 20 years and see how they hold up. will the bms needed for lithium even last that long?
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
A gentleman from Scotland had set up his camper this way. He loaded the system with instrumentation. We have been working closely and found that it all works to my theory. I'll have a link to his work in my next battery video.
@andrewtitcombe8378
2 жыл бұрын
Thinking of adding 12v Lifeop4 100ah to my 100Ah lead acid system that has 160w MPPT solar charge to my motor home. My concern is the current draw to the Lifeop4 from both batteries being flat might burn out the alternator or wiring. Or the mains power supply if i connect electric hook up while batteries are in the flat state.
@Clarks-Adventure
2 жыл бұрын
I talk about this in this video at about six minutes. kzitem.info/news/bejne/1KeKmGuBm6qDmJg I have a bunch of videos you might like. Watch through the playlist.
@IDVDalot
3 жыл бұрын
REally interesting. Are you a chemist?
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Enough to get me into trouble
@easternsun167
3 жыл бұрын
With battle born batteries it's recommend that you once a month charge maintaining a 14.60 for a period of time So as to balance the cells .
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Yes the bbms has an option for that. Though I think that might be excessive. But I don't know what magic their bbms does.
@jackparker7689
3 жыл бұрын
If the house battery is lead and Li, what happens when the battery switch goes from house to both?
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
It's pretty much covered in the video. But the best way is to replace the battery switch with a BBMS.
@j-mfortin434
2 жыл бұрын
It would be nice to have a diagram on how to marry the both. I have 4 T-105 wired in 12 volt. thus 2 para;;e; and 2 in series. from there how and where would I add lets say 4 lithium totalling 280 amp hrs on top of My 450 amp hrs.
@Clarks-Adventure
2 жыл бұрын
Here is the manual for my BankManagerPlus. I think this might help
@paulfitzgerald1466
3 жыл бұрын
Just reading the Will Prouse messages, very interesting. any idea why your start battery failed? I have been wondering about issues leaving the battery combiner relay in the system, seems to me it is unlikely to switch off if the Lithium battery stays over 13.2v, so it only disconnects once the AGM bank is dropping. I guess it still protects the start battery, but was wondering if I have missed anything.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Just old age. It was really old. And as it's the only flooded in my system I might not have topped it off properly. Yes the combiner stays on most of the time but that's the correct action as the lead isn't being drawn from so no need to protect starter.
@andyedwards1575
3 жыл бұрын
Sounds great, would you need a dc-dc charger from the alternator? Or alternator-agm then lithium?
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Not really. Just run the alternator to the batteries. (Remember the batteries and all connected together) It's important to either derate the alternator, have a temperature pick up on the alternator or have a good alternator that can run at max amps for a long time as lithium can eat a lot of amps. I don't see this as an issue as I've been running a huge lead bank for 30 years. Even lead can draw max amps from an alternator for a long time if it's huge and discharged. But if your charging system isn't up to snuff it can see issues. Lead in your system makes for an important protection of alternators. I'm writing a new video now. The first video was about adding li to lead. Next one will be why it's important to add lead to lithium banks. Understanding both helps everyone. I'll be clearer in the video I hope, stay tuned.
@andyedwards1575
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for your reply I was just considering renewing my amg batteries with new lithium. But might try this way first .
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
There are still a bunch of issues to consider. Mostly having to do with your charging system. Remember you can call if you need to.
@paulsarah006
3 жыл бұрын
Good setup for you and slow charging but you loose the main reason I got Lithium fast charging Won't The lead acid will slow the charge rate down .?
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Not at all
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
The lithium will accept all the amps it normally would plus the lead accepts what it can. They are in parallel. I'm just finishing up a "bank manager" circuit that allows both types of batteries to charge completely according to their own needs. Much better and more efecient then a dc-dc charger.
@patgarrett8313
3 жыл бұрын
What profile do you have your charge controller set at for the combined batteries - lithium or lead acid? Thanks!
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
The best choice is all charge controllers set for lead and this thing I've developed attached to the li. It's a hybrid lithium/lead charge controller, video to follow. Barring that set for lithium.
@patgarrett8313
3 жыл бұрын
@@Clarks-Adventure Thanks! Like a lot of others on this channel, also very interested in seeing the charge controller you have developed.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Had it working fine yesterday. Then I slipped with the soldering iron while trying to make it better and burnt out something. I'll get it. Need more components shipped in.
@MrPetfel
3 жыл бұрын
In a situation where you use lead as a starter battery, what will stop the Lithium from self destruction when you crank the engine?
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Why would lithium self destruct? I've seen boats with no lead on board at all starting big engines with lithium.
@MrPetfel
3 жыл бұрын
@@Clarks-Adventure I am thinking (?) that lithium as a rule does not like the high discharge amperage pulled by starter motor. Am I not seeing something?
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
There are cells with quite high C ratings available. Just off the top of my head these. www.ebay.com/itm/4-HEADWAY-38120-HP-3-2V-8AH-LIFEPO4-LITHIUM-BATTERIES-25C-200A-12V-SUPER-CELLS-/173844365503?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0 I used them in a portable waterproof bank for Emily's dinghy. You can see it in our last video. They have a 25c rating so the little box battery is rated to 1000amps!!! That's why I warn her it's a bomb, be careful. But in the more normal case when you hit the mixed bank hard the voltage drops like any battery. When it drops below 12.8 the lead starts adding to the flow of current. You have to size things well but I've found that it's really quite forgiving. The same thing happens when a big inverter load is demanded. If too much was actually drawn from the lithium.... Well that's why we have BMSs right. The Li will just switch off for a bit. The lead will start the engine and the BMS will bring the li back in once it's cooled down.
@MrPetfel
3 жыл бұрын
@@Clarks-Adventure Thank you Clark I didn't know these were available. Great work with the vids :)
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
You're very welcome. I never knew where this video was going to take me. It started as a method to power my air conditioner efficiently. But now I'm just finishing a battery bank manager system (BBMS). It will safely control the charging of a lithium bank mixed with lead in a way that no other commercially available device has yet. It also allows the lead to he fully charged as it needs to be. I'll be making a video describing it soon and I'm in negotiations to make it commercially available.
@Jesus_Creation_Channel
3 жыл бұрын
On your sailboat do you preferer to use Flooded or Sealed Lead-Acid Batteries? I'm a newbie to batteries so any answers are appreciated:) Thanks
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Flooded are the toughest as long as you maintain them. Gels aren't that bad. I like and use AGM. No maintenance and they have the lowest self discharge rate due to lower antinium content. I carry a huge bank 1500ah of lead so the discharge rate is an issue.
@Jesus_Creation_Channel
3 жыл бұрын
@@Clarks-Adventure Good info! Thanks for the answer!
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
John, Would you consider sharing this video with your friends on social media?
@Jesus_Creation_Channel
3 жыл бұрын
@@Clarks-Adventure I would but I purposely stay away from social media so I don't have any friends on social media to share it with:)
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Can't blame you there. I do the same.
@marcw201
2 жыл бұрын
Hi Clark, thanks for your videos. My questions have to do with Limiting the in rush of current from the lithium to AGM Batteries. Battle born has a device (CSL500) that limits the inrush of current. Could this be used between the lithium and AGM batteries to prevent the in rush of current? It’s $280 so would their be a better less expensive way? The other problem is when you take your, in my case diesel motorhome in for service they tend to abuse and leave the batteries on to a deep discharge. Any ideas to solve this? The lithium bms should stop the lithium discharge but…they will just plug in to shore power without equalizing the AGM & Lithium batteries. Thanks for your suggestions.
@Clarks-Adventure
2 жыл бұрын
I'm adding a new feature to the next release of my BankManagerPlus. It lets you set a limit on the maximum discharge amps from your lithium bank. This is for RV and car stereo applications to protect the li bank from engine starting loads and the like. But, of course, it would stop any over high current discharge As for surges going from battery bank to bank, this can't happen if you are using a BankManagerPlus. It only connects the banks when it's safe to do so. But the most important reason to use a BankManagerPlus is it won't allow you to overcharge your Li bank. Charge according to Battleborns manual with a low current supply (solar on a cloudy day) and your Li bank will suffer.
@Clarks-Adventure
2 жыл бұрын
As for your service issue:. Find a better shop! OK, if you use a mixed bank approach like I suggest you could simply disconnect the lithium bank (bank manager to menu mode then turn it off). Your rig will simply run off your lead while in service. Lead is tough, it can stand up to the abuse. Then once you take possession back just turn on the BankManagerPlus, it will reconnect the banks once it is safe to do so. You could even use a key switch to lock the li out of unauthorized use.
@Clarks-Adventure
2 жыл бұрын
I just noticed your question came in on an old video. You may not know about the BankManagerPlus yet. www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms
@marcw201
2 жыл бұрын
@@Clarks-Adventure can u explain what you mean? “Charge according to Battleborns manual with a low current supply (solar on a cloudy day) and your Li bank will suffer.”
@Clarks-Adventure
2 жыл бұрын
If you charge Lifepo4 to a voltage, like every charge controller currently available does, and the current goes low at the end of the charge cycle, like clouds or just the end of the sunny part of the day, you can overcharge your Li. Actually plate li metal out in a way that makes it no longer able to hold charge. Ever. This is a rather slow process but can happen at any voltage over 13.48v (for a 12v bank). I have seen reports of Lifepo4 banks becoming worthless in a year of only being charged to 13.8. I talk about this in a video I did last summer. kzitem.info/news/bejne/uXeFzohogal8ioI But I didn't do the best job of it. I was still working out the math back then. It all works now and the parents are in. I've sold the first lot of BankManagerPlus units (well I have 4 left but they will be gone soon) and I'm getting a bigger order together now. Once that is a go (supply chain is killing me) I'll do a proper sales video that really explains it all.
@yvesst-jean6395
3 жыл бұрын
merci
@RangatiraRacing
Жыл бұрын
Quick question regarding the lead lithium have you considered using Graphene ultra/super capacitors instead of the lead? i only need high current to crank over my engine (60a) the rest of my system is much lower draw can you see any upside or downside to this idea?
@Clarks-Adventure
Жыл бұрын
Seems like a great idea at first but I believe it's something to be avoided. They would be great to crank that diesel but they consume and discharge too much current. They would draw so much power on recharge they would be dangerous to your existing components and down right terrifying if you get a short circuit. So maybe a pack protected by a diode and resistor mounted really near the starter but for me I'd rather use good old lead.
@RangatiraRacing
Жыл бұрын
@@Clarks-Adventure on further investigation I see the amount of 500f supercaps required to crank at 60 a for 10 s would be way too much so i seems that would be seriously overcomplicating things so i will revert to lead for start bank and Lifepo4 for house loads and have a DC-DC charger from the 2s GC2 6v bsnk to a larger 48v lifepo4 280 ah bank and have a 2nd dc-dc charger to charge the lead from the 48v side
@Clarks-Adventure
Жыл бұрын
It's a way to go but I wouldn't go that way. Take a look at this. www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms
@RangatiraRacing
Жыл бұрын
@@Clarks-Adventure my idea was to use the lead as the 12 v engine bank and do a 48v lifepo4 for the inverter and houseloads
@Clarks-Adventure
Жыл бұрын
Going 48v on a boat is bothersome. For example your solar all has to be well over 48v. It's really hard to find sailing instruments, fans, lights, radios..... 48v The savings in copper wire just isn't worth it. 24v can be done with fewer issues but if you do that just change your starter and go full 24v Boost and buck converters are wasteful things and can only pass power in one direction. But we are all the captains of our boats and anything can be made to function.
@hthring
3 жыл бұрын
as far a risks and abuse go, any drop in replacement lithium battery will have a bms so its not really an issue, but maybe something the jury is still out on is how lithium vs lead will hold up over time in tropical climates. its a novel idea and somthing i will consider some more, but maybe you need to look at price per ah over life time to really know which is cheapest but hard to really know how long a lithium battery will last you.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Lithium is a mystery but I've been using lead a long time. One other good thing about this plan is if all the lithium fails mid voyage one just disconnects it and falls to the lead.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Hayden, Would you consider sharing this video with your friends on social media?
@Foxfried
2 жыл бұрын
I don't' understand, you entire explanation is: I used a lithium battery along with my lead acids, and all the night I drained power from my Lithium battery while not touching my lead acids... Ok so why do you still have the lead acids if you never pulled anything from them? Or am I missing something here.
@Clarks-Adventure
2 жыл бұрын
I think you might want to watch the other two videos we have on this channel on the subject.
@SkypowerwithKarl
3 жыл бұрын
To get the best life out each type of battery you must have different charge profiles. That would be impossible unless they are disconnected during charging.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Working on a device to do that now. Take a look at the other lithium video on this channel. I mention it at about 3:00
@peterc4450
2 жыл бұрын
Very interesting and well presented, but would have been better without having your left knee in view throughout 😂.
@presidentchaung
3 жыл бұрын
hi there , i got a question ,if lithium is 13.2 for 12v system, then 26.4 is for 24v system right?
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Yep
@presidentchaung
3 жыл бұрын
@@Clarks-Adventure thanks for the reply , when you mix these two battery witch one should the inverter hook up with?
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
When they are mixed they are wired together. It makes little difference. But due to wiring resistance it's probably slightly better to put loads that could go over the li C ratings on the Lead side. Be careful with the C rating issue and big inverter loads.
@presidentchaung
3 жыл бұрын
@@Clarks-Adventure Thank you for your reply that clarify my doubts
@presidentchaung
3 жыл бұрын
i was going to add a pack of 16v supercapacitor to boost my 12v battery bank when using big load, after watching your video i'm adding lithium too
@andreb6737
3 жыл бұрын
Any reason you wouldn't use a DC to DC charger? That would mitigate your issues with the surge charge. It may use a slight bit of energy but.....and how do you handle the different charge profiles not to mention the Peukert factor....kind of risky business when mismatching chemistries. But hey if it works I guess it works....good for you. Now please get going on cold fusion :-)
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
You might want to watch the other video. I'm developing a special charge controller that does just that. The dc-dc converter doesn't do the job. It charges the batteries but isn't bidirectional. Anyway, new product coming. Prototype will be in.my hands next week.
@andreb6737
3 жыл бұрын
@@Clarks-Adventure Cool can't wait to see it.
@jimquantic
2 жыл бұрын
If you are a small boater like I am, with two batteries, make em both Lithium, be sure your charger is correct. If it is not adequate, get a new charger built for Lithium's, good boating.
@Clarks-Adventure
2 жыл бұрын
Problem is no one makes a true taper charging charger for lithium. My BBMS plus will do this but only when mixed with lead. Also watch the other videos in this series for reasons why you don't only want li batteries
@jimquantic
2 жыл бұрын
@@Clarks-Adventure Good tip, in my case, I just put two brand new, old fashioned lead acid marine's and with my installed plug in charger (at home, I have a trailer boat) my last batteries lasted TEN years, so I will have quite sometime before I need any battery. I do like the weight advantage of the Lithium--that is a clear fact.
@ysesq
3 жыл бұрын
Better to get a victron isolated dc to dc charger instead.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
There are a lot of reasons this isn't true. Chiefly that approach isn't bidirectional. Also there is significant waste of power.
@ysesq
3 жыл бұрын
@@Clarks-Adventure a victron Buck-Boost DC-DC Converter will fix that and is bidirectional. better than coupling radically different chemistries together.
@DobleWhiteAndStabley
3 жыл бұрын
I was theorizing about this, but haven't been able to afford it yet.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
You might want to watch my other videos on this. I've almost finished development of a hybrid li/Pb charge controller.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Even a hundred ah of li makes a big difference.
@vtorsi610
3 жыл бұрын
Was it a bank of Trojan L-16's that lasted 15 YEARS?
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Yes flooded
@lubberwalker
3 жыл бұрын
Haven't you discovered crystolacusion yet?
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
?? Are you referring to internal short circuits in lithium batteries?
@lubberwalker
3 жыл бұрын
@@Clarks-Adventure As an ex-systems engineer of 42 years, I recognise your out of the box overthinking. "I need to charge my turbo boosters. Are you still using fossil fuels or have you discovered crystolacusion?" "eeerhm. We've got double A's!" Woody's first meeting with Buzz Lightyear. PS. You should have patented your idea (now mine) before posting it to the world. Remember the guy that invented post-it's?
@keg0485
3 жыл бұрын
So where do I find this air conditioning system.
@Clarks-Adventure
3 жыл бұрын
Eventually I'll describe it in a video. It will be a DIY project and you will need guidance in the design over the phone to do it, but it's surprisingly easy to actually build once designed. If you can solder copper pipe you can assemble the parts.
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