"They are the last free people on the planet" - I like this quote
@NonStampCollector
12 жыл бұрын
Well, based on the response to my first comment, it seems that everything worth knowing about these people is already known by some. Thanks for enlightening us.
@tubewerk
12 жыл бұрын
I read about an experiment a few years ago, for which some anthropologists carried an IKEA cupboard into the wilderness and gave it to a rarely-contacted community without written language. The idea was to see if they would be able to assemble it using the pictogram- and illustration-based instructions. If I recall the results correctly, they completed it in about the same amount of time as people accustomed to using written instructions.
@NonStampCollector
12 жыл бұрын
SO MUCH to learn from those people. But, I think it's better that we never ever go there and find out what they could teach us. It feels better to know that there are still people in the world who know how to live within nature. In a sense, the developed world could do nothing worse than end these peoples' way of life. That cuts us off from our origins like nothing else.
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
"I'll keep my ideals aimed at a modern world where everyone is generally safe, properly fed and supplied with safe drinking water, clothed and sheltered, treated for their medical problems, and educated." I agree: and where mutually coexisting strategies are permitted under a non-aggression principle.
@amok52
12 жыл бұрын
this happened to tribes in Colombia that live now in slums outside bogota on gonvernment handouts i think. When asked if they want to return to the jungle they say "no way, are you crazy?"
@roreo99
12 жыл бұрын
That must be trippy as fuck for them to see a plane!
@NonStampCollector
12 жыл бұрын
Well, who's to say? Are they better off waking up to an alarm clock so they can rush out to get the bus so they can sit in front of stock tickers all day? Yes, health. Yes, the right to choose which world they want to live in. But I certainly dispute the assumption that we (the west) are WAY better off than them, when we know nothing about them. We know NOTHING. Yes, perhaps I would change places with them. I don't know. I need more info. And I think you might, too. We all do. That's the point.
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
You're all very welcome, thanks for the comment
@gravity-arbor
12 жыл бұрын
Camera was 1Km away, making it harder for them to see what the plane was. Good idea.
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
If you hate it so much, go and bring them into your socio-economic system. Anyone can debate the concept of being free btw: I would argue being a shift worker at McDonalds to make ends meet is weak tea for some notion of transcendent freedom. And no Amazonian tribe had abundant access to dental and medical care, and global transportation, after the miners came in. But you know, I uploaded this not to debate whether they should have Coke and the internet...
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
Yes. What they engage in is most likely a form between pure hunter-gathering and outright agriculture, which is a combination of foraging and horticulture. They probably have small gardens in and around their settlements in which they grow some basic staples, like plantains and cassava. This is what a lot of forager-horticulturalist groups do in these kinds of environments. Hope that helped :)
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
I agree. Consider that the ancient mass civilizations from South America, with their impressive structures and political systems, etc, are gone. And theyre still there.
@Ceenymeeny
12 жыл бұрын
Part of me wants to meet these people and learn their culture and give them modern medicine. Another part of me wants to protect them and prevent their tribes from being absorbed into the modern societies. I honestly don't know what I think the best option is.
@klaountia_asllani
Жыл бұрын
It is indescribable how lucky these people are
@TomatoBreadOrgasm
12 жыл бұрын
See also the Maasai for another example of a people who were (and often still are) offered modern ways of living and chose to reject such. Their choice, not ours.
@FiverBeyond
12 жыл бұрын
Absolutely astounding.
@HeilLoki
12 жыл бұрын
People who think, it is wrong to contact them, also have to think, these tribes aren't capable of deciding for themselves. I find it very interessting, that my comments got so many thumbs down, just because I don't want to patronize them. They are perfectly able to decide for themselves. Give them all the facts (medicine, alcohol, desease, cure, technology, loud cities etc.) and then THEY decide. You want to patronize 'em? Go on, but don't tell me, you're acting in their best interest.
@ThePvthudson
12 жыл бұрын
To say that I somewhat envy them tells me a lot about the state of our culture ... I hope for them that we never find any oil or useful minerals out there ! Thanks you for this vid
@NonStampCollector
12 жыл бұрын
"certainly you are advocating interference in foreign cultures and attempting to bring atleast one to an end" That's exactly what I'm NOT doing. I don't even address Islam, and get criticised for that. I'm very very much staying within my own (western, historically Christian) culture and advocating change "at home" so to speak. The rest of what you're saying makes perfect sense, re health benefits and availing all people of the benefits we've attained. I'm just saying it's not black and white.
@alphamale3643
Жыл бұрын
We freak out and panic when we lose power for 2 hours. Yet, these people dont even have indoors.
@TomatoBreadOrgasm
12 жыл бұрын
I agree, I think we are of like mind in this. I don't view the threat they face in the possibility that they will lose the only home they have ever known as trivial, I'm just not hip to the idea of deliberately isolating them from something they haven't had a chance to consider. It's a very interesting video anyway. Thanks for the upload.
@japislav
12 жыл бұрын
amazing quest! respect.
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
True, I wondered whats happening there right now--maybe they have a myth now about ancestors swooping over and checking things out, or maybe witchcraft, or perhaps a giant bird... ones things for sure, they will be talking about it for generations and probably building it into more and more elaborate myths.
@HeilLoki
12 жыл бұрын
Search for "First contact with the tribe Toulambi (by Miri) - Part 1/4 - English" here on youtube. It's a first contact between a french guy and a tribe from New Guinea.
@TheLuckySaGe
12 жыл бұрын
I didn't know there were still untouched tribes. That is incredible. I just hope proselytizers will stay away from them.
@susanyana
12 жыл бұрын
thank you for posting, what an amazing video
@russelldofrane6614
5 жыл бұрын
It would be interesting to know what they thought of you the giant strange bird in the sky that circled them one day then disappeared never to be seen again. And what changes it caused in their culture. Remember the WWII island tribes that built giant effigies to the war planes they saw?
@devinmichaelroberts9954
2 жыл бұрын
they see planes daily most likely
@devinmichaelroberts9954
2 жыл бұрын
the real question is do they see plains? hehe . never
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the response i appreciate
@HeilLoki
12 жыл бұрын
I think some people treat these tribes as pets. At least sometimes it feels that way.
@Urhoboman5
12 жыл бұрын
I think this is good in away. Considering where humanity is now. We need somebody somewhere who's still in tune with the Earth. For all we know it's these type of people that might save our asses if the shit hits the fan. Nice vid. :-)
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
I just wanted to say: the actions behind leaving these people be is not really because of a lofty philosophical ideal that must be some Universal Imperative (i.e. all cultures must be sought out, assessed for legitimacy, and phased out if deemed illegitimate. Its much more chilled than that. The actions are much more because of the history of whats happened to indigenous Amazonian tribes. This is really quite contextual.
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
I want all the people who are making these comments, to go and look at why they have proposed allowing them to stay there. And I am a pro tech, atheist evidence-based, reason-based humanist (and so on). Please, please be aware that the reason he wants to do this is because of the history of these tribes getting fucked over, along with the environment. Perhaps if he can protect their rainforest and habitat, we can have a fair, symmetrical interaction with them too.
@2plus2make4
12 жыл бұрын
Sure - I agree that historical treatments have been despicable. NSC raised the Australian aboriginals (I studied this at school and agree, and also agree that civilisation/primitive contacts have often been horrible for the tribes people in history). To me this is a cop out though - surely we can talk to people without resorting to violence and theft. It says something about the people in our civilization that the first thoughts are that we cant be trusted to avoid these things.
@Blackmark52
12 жыл бұрын
'But they are humans, not animals." Your response is much more realistic and humane than NonStampCollector's. There is nothing wonderful about living "within nature." Nature is merciless and that is how these people learn to live. @NonStampCollector You should watch the video of one of these tribes burying small children alive because they will be too hard to care for. Nothing worse than ending that way of life?? Hardly.
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much NFLdoWORK. I nearly missed your comment. I appreciate that a lot.
@Blackmark52
12 жыл бұрын
"how beneficial it is when westerners come barging in to show them better ways to live." I'm not about to try to defend our treatment of primitive peoples, but I find this romantic notion of how much better off they are completely naive. I'll keep my ideals aimed at a modern world where everyone is generally safe, properly fed and supplied with safe drinking water, clothed and sheltered, treated for their medical problems, and educated.
@JustPlaneNuts
12 жыл бұрын
It probably is a difficult life. But firstly I don't think that they would adapt very well to the technological world. You would likely do more harm to them then good. Secondly, I think it's good that some people still life this way. There are advantages to it as well.
@2plus2make4
12 жыл бұрын
You are right.
@2plus2make4
12 жыл бұрын
I guess the important question is did they have left over screws? seriously - that is quite an interesting experiment. im off to google...
@NonStampCollector
12 жыл бұрын
"Aren't you advocating something similar with a certain religious culture?" Similar to what? Similar to the cultures that invaded and largely destroyed indigenous cultures? No, I think you're thinking of that other Paint youtube cartoonist who advocates doing all that in his comedy videos. Just to be clear: I don't advocate killing people or stealing their children. Glad I sorted that out.
@dvrn86
12 жыл бұрын
Give them the rights to their lands before the ranchers, loggers and miners take it from them.
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
Can you give the citation? Every case is ad hoc. There are groups in the Western Desert of Australia who went back into their ancestral land to live as hunter-gatherers. Others would never want to do that. So I know its case by case, but can you cite the case you just described?
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
Why do you assume he meant 'pushing' equality? He said teaching. That would presumably mean talking about the valid scientific insight we have into the health benefits of higher equality and less strict heirarchy. Certainly not cruel to do that.
@Japgunner
12 жыл бұрын
Seeing an airplane is for them seeing an UFO. Maybe they will portrait this flying object in their 'culture' as something miraculous. Who knows(?).
@Ryakki
12 жыл бұрын
Well, I did include "assuming contact comes with disease prevention and treatment." With that caveat intact... even the lowest rung of the social ladder in a society where our world is laid bare, to a degree, by science, and we understand to a large degree where we came from, is worth it a hundred times over. What do they lose? Possibly their land, this is true... but for the knowledge and medicine, as far as they're concerned, of the gods. Vast knowledge and vast lifetimes.
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
thanks, just saw ur channel pic too, lol!
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
I think its the problem with text sometimes, it can seem like the persons disagreeing with you when theyre not. I knew what you were saying and I was giving a sarcastic response about how half the other comments youll receive are from those types of kids who are a product of that kind of world. So my apologies for seeming a bit ambiguous there, I actually understood and appreciate the comment.
@TomatoBreadOrgasm
12 жыл бұрын
Excellent point. It would be more consistent, and I think more ethical, to at least give them the choice. Like the Pirahã people, they may look at modern life and toss it aside, and that's fine, but they were given the choice. It was NOT decided FOR them that they'd be better off without it, they got to decide for themselves.
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
Miners, loggers, and other resource extractors coming into their area, and pushing people out with force, which has, does, and will continue to happen for the foreseeable future. They arent given medicine and wikipedia, theyre murdered and subdued, and pushed into small, dirty slums in a lot of deplorable instances. They also become detached from their heritage, and not by choice. The choice behind this project isnt ideology, its historical experience.
@HeilLoki
12 жыл бұрын
What you're trying to defend is called "patronizing"!
@23bloodbath
12 жыл бұрын
This is really fascinating. I can only imagine the confusion and wonder these people feel while looking at an airplane. I would really love to know what they're thinking. On an unrelated note I really dont like the language that was used in this video. From the was these people were talked about you'd thing they lived in the garden of eden. They must live tough lives and we're here sitting in our comfortable houses, does the guy in this video really think that this tribe has it better than us?
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
...cntnd... And working in their best interests needs to start with protecting their environment. They are 100% free to live their life, and explore and make contact with surrounding tribes and sedentary civilization. What they are not free in is an outside collective of entities with an ability to rape their forest, suck out the resources and force them into small sedentary village slums, with an efficiency and speed unfathomable to them. Allowing them 'choice' is complex and nuanced project.
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
I think the ethical arguments both ways make sense. Protecting them, so to speak, is not a joke: its about stopping their environment from being taken over and consumed. On the other hand, perhaps they would either want that to happen.......or at least have a by-product access to penicillin, and wikipedia, etc. The ONLY way, given history, that your approach, which is admirable, could be done is through first providing the protection, and having some brave souls go in. Hey, Im keen.
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
Actually I'm referring to research on mortality, cardiovascular and cardiorespiratory disease prevalence in the renowned, peer reviewed, longitudinal cohort Whitehall study, and the implications it has for links between health and disparities of wealth and power. Direct scientifically valid links between inequality, hierarchy and physical health....cntn
@TheDeaconSephiroth
12 жыл бұрын
You can READ my question anyway you choose to I suppose, but those are your words not mine. As for them being so free, what is that even supposed to mean? They're free to toil with primative tools, in a hostile environment, die of rudimentary infections, broken bones, and tooth decay? They're free to have half the life expectancy, of their fellow man? I could fly around the world... that feels amazingly free to me. What's so free about struggling just to survive?
@Thirst4Facts
12 жыл бұрын
I bet right here on youtube there is a video from a cell phone, of the plane taking this video...lol.
@Enleuk
12 жыл бұрын
Errm... was one of them darker (the one aiming the bow at the airplane at 3:22) than the rest?
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
btw thanks for the comment
@drdigg
12 жыл бұрын
While they know little to nothing of our world, we know little of theirs. What medicines do they have for ailments? What skills do they have that we lack? Do they know each other so well that trying to put on a front like we do wouldn't work? I can't help but think that if the shit hits the fan on a global scale someday (volcano, meteor, etc) that peoples like these are far-better suited to survive and may represent our best chance of surviving as a species. I think we need to leave them be.
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
probably, Hitchens did the same though, in a figurative sense. there it is
@CanoasTC
12 жыл бұрын
Because they have the choice to leave their village. If they ask for knowledge and help then surely they will get it.
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
i know, for instance...what do they think the planet is? Im guessing they could think it just goes on forever, since theyve never seen an edge to it. Or, perhaps, they have some belief that its on top of a giant tree, or something. What do they think the stars are?
@CanoasTC
12 жыл бұрын
Who are you replying to? I said that they shouldn't be contacted because that's not our choice to make. It's their choice to contact us or not, and they can do so if they wish. What you said makes no sense as a reply to my comment.
@MYmiddleNAMEisFRANK
12 жыл бұрын
Impressed
@2plus2make4
12 жыл бұрын
yes thats true, just tell them - I dont think we should force anything onto people. goes for people in our civilization as well....
@tipsavag3
12 жыл бұрын
That was amazing
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
The idea that any of this is a hoax has been long debunked.Survival International has been at pains to explain the difference between *un-known/un-discovered* and a tribe who does for which there is no known peaceful contact with the outside world.They are also well aware that such groups may have had contact in past centuries/generations, and retreated I think people on YT who leave their comments need to consider that very few things they say (or nay say) are not known to full time researchers
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
So I agree with your sentiments about disease prevention and access to knowledge. However, thats not whats informing my opinion on this. Its that in fact, historically, a lot of Amazonian tribes have been treated appallingly, striped their autonomy, not given more. It is not a case of do we give them chloroquine or not, an iPad or not. It is far more complex. The world of a Brazilian slum btw, is not the scientific bastion you described. They are rightfully concerned about...cntnd...
@IronicAtheist
12 жыл бұрын
Yea those other users make relevant points, plus the old "origins" argument seems like a serious fail to me. It's like when people say you should never make humans live forever because then they lose "The Human Condition".... but they forget what that condition REALLY is. The Human Condition is to be weak, it however is NOT to STAY weak, to the contrary our Condition is to OVERCOME our weaknesses, to OVERCOME the impossible odds that are against us.
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
"We tend to stand in awe of tribes and more primitive man in a modern world." I'm afraid that's not true: we at best are completely ignorant of them and hence indifferent, and at worst they are disregarded and screwed over, certainly not regarded with awe. You mentioned an episode of Anthony Bourdain with a tribe with 'minimal exposure' who expressed their disliking for their life. Can you reference the episode, I want to see it and verify that, and gauge the context.
@fredact
5 жыл бұрын
So you are keeping them in a preserve like a species of zoo animals, without giving them any choice as to whether they'd like to live with modern comforts, medical care and opportunities.
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
Ignore my previous response, it was not for you. You said this is a hoax. Can you please provide the citation? Considering that there are extremely remote tribes in the Amazon, it would be a pretty elaborate hoax to go out there, have someone hire a plane, and use it to form governmental policy. It would be very expensive, seek ridicule and possible imprisonment. So unless your comment is a hoax, please provide.
@Ryakki
12 жыл бұрын
Really, I gave too much last time... because contact, and putting their land and mineral rights up for grabs really aren't the same thing... at all. You can leave them where they are, with land and mineral rights and a moratorium on transferring those rights, and bring them "medicine and wikipedia". Hell, you can just keep it public land. As long as you bring medicine to combat the diseases you bring, and make sure they're not victimized, I can't see it as moral to leave them alone.
@lubermanl
12 жыл бұрын
Thats fucked up. Like most these comments. If living in the woods without any fucking technology is so great then why don't you go do it? Would you swap places if you could? Shouldn't they have a choice? IMO theres something fucked up about deciding that a group of people like this should be stuck like that. Imagine your on a plane, it crashes, and you die. But your child survives and is raised by these people. Think of how much better off they would be. Wouldn't that be wonderful?
@TheDeaconSephiroth
12 жыл бұрын
This picture of the world you paint is merely the collection of bad things in the world, and as you become aware of more of the woorld you do become more aware of the bad things, but the same can be said for the good, there ARE good things in the world and technology brings us access to those as well. You're the one that thinks you know what's best for them... damn what they thnk, they must never even know. Are you not merciful.
@TomatoBreadOrgasm
12 жыл бұрын
I can't agree. That seems a rather selfish reason to deny them the benefits of modern living, should they ever WANT such. Maybe they'd like the idea of living twice as long. I'm not assuming they want to, and of course they must be protected from violent, selfish sociopaths as those described by Josè in this video. But... The "worst thing" for us to do would be end their way of life? Even by introducing them to modern medical care? I admit that like the Pirahã, they may not care.
@HeilLoki
12 жыл бұрын
Who the hell said, that 50 % of them will die? This is just another ridiculous claim based on a even more ridiculous assertion. Again: Contact them in a way, that makes sense (advised by doctors, psychologists, etc.) and then THEY have to decide, how to live their lives from now.
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
Im surprised my comment that is acknowledging both arguments and there implications got so many negative votes.
@pickupthePWN
12 жыл бұрын
Have you ever watched Star Trek? There are extreme consequences for corrupting and interfering with taboo cultures. Let them be free.
@goodvibrato
12 жыл бұрын
You want to talk about disease? I direct you to Fornax1984's comment below. We do not need to "save" these people. They seem to be doing pretty well on their own. Not to mention who knows how they would react to outsiders. I'm not against contact, but I certainly don't think we should make them adapt to our way of life. Some ppl can't get healthcare in cities either lol. I'd rather be in the jungle than the slums.
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
Thats the kind of point Ive been trying to get across, cheers. There is a bit too much ideological talk going on and ignorance of the facts at hand. There is not a small army of trucks filled with free medication and iPads waiting around the corner: there are huge, financial interests in the resources, and history has shown what kind of autonomy these kinds of people have been shown. The question is how to work in their best interests...cntnd
@darthspliffius
12 жыл бұрын
if any one not seen human planet the bbc show plz up it up.
@TheDeaconSephiroth
12 жыл бұрын
The only thing I hate is the hypocritical narrative of the video and the comments it's spawning. People are in the same breath saying "we know nothing about them" and "they are so free and noble and wonderful." It's so fassionable to call everything modern evil and promote the idea of the noble savage that no one calls up reality and says... "Where does our obligation really lie? Premature contact could be harmful, but is it moral to purposefully isolate them? Either way we should cut the BS."
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
"You're highly biased because of your upbringing, and you know it." Absolutely not. I 'bias' my views upon valid and reliable evidence, and the rational arguments they are marshaled in favour of. And while you seem to think we should bring them 'scientific discoveries', you try and demonize 'teaching your views' as 'cruel' and 'meddling', begging the questions how exactly do you propose they learn about the discoveries??
@HeilLoki
12 жыл бұрын
Star Trek? That's your argument? What you are trying to defend is called "patronizing".
@reductor_
12 жыл бұрын
Did anyone spot the machinery near by?
@aaronstately
12 жыл бұрын
IT looks like they are farming and have crops....any one care to elaborate?
@amok52
12 жыл бұрын
Niall Ferguson, The Ascent of Money: A Financial history of the world, (2008) Penguin Books, 2009 p.19. also wikipedia nukak people
@Mtaalas
12 жыл бұрын
Watch Avatar and come back to preach about miserable ;) It's a point of view, there's nothing miserable by not owning a car or a house, or having money or not be able to buy one's food from a supermarket. Not to mention iPad or cellphones of all sorts. _you_ couldn't believe a life without them, but it's not because you couldn't live happily without them, it's because you would have to give them up, and people hate change or giving up their possessions. And I'm the same, but I understand this.
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
There are a couple of things to say about your comment. First off on what you called staggering ignorance. In some ways, yes absolutely, in other ways, there is staggering adaptive skills and knowledge that works for them. Second, you used the language we are 'purposefully MAKING people live that way'. Actually we dont really know how they live. They make themselves live whatever way they do, and ours is an action of omission, not commission. Finally...cntnd.
@pickupthePWN
12 жыл бұрын
why would you interrupt their way of life? they're free from societey, fresh air, nature, etc
@philipbawasanta7313
12 жыл бұрын
I wonder if they have Wifi.
@2plus2make4
12 жыл бұрын
No one is suggesting that you are advocating anything so vile - but certainly you are advocating interference in foreign cultures and attempting to bring atleast one to an end. Moreover I thought I had recalled you advocating with interfering with peoples lives to improve health/education etc (please correct if im wrong) - why are these people different? I would have thought the choice of having antibiotics, soap etc could result in a fairly material improvement for them.
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
I cant agree with you. Its extremely rewarding to 'live within nature' and Im not sure what you mean by 'sparing people from it'. Sparing them from their own lives? They have a huge amount of autonomy that we could rape. Would this mean going in, hacking down their rainforest and putting up concrete high-rises from them? These comments are getting more and more flawed. Also when you say plenty of people know how to live in nature, most people actually dont.
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
Yes but people come from an unsubtle paradigm of go in, set up camp, put a fence around things, and ask if people want pepsi or coke. The idea that we have to deal with a legacy of colonial land and resource grabs, and gaming strategies of logging, mining and oil companies that could and would swat these kind of people like a fly, is just not even known to average baseball cap wearing Cheetos munching, keyboard wise-man on the mount, handing out ethical spoonfulls of thought.
@mckseal
12 жыл бұрын
Throw a coke bottle down there, that'll rile them up!
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
no....can you give the frame time?
@TRANSFORM57
12 жыл бұрын
What is this moder world you speak of?
@Neanderthalcouzin
12 жыл бұрын
...cntnd there is on the one hand the possibility we bring medicine. That is one possibility yes. History will tell you that we bring diseases, kick them off the land, force them to be sedentary, and then they may get, in their lowest-rung-of-the-Brazilian-social-ladder status, some medicine. Since you wondered about the purpose, you will need to read about the historical anthropology of Amazonian tribes and the modern world. You spoke of staggering ignorance, we have come full circle.
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