Please don't use this video as an excuse to harass the other theory maker! I may disagree with the their wholeheartedly, but I prefer constructive discussion over hate, and the big sigh at the start was meant to be a bit. If you like what I do, consider supporting me on Patreon: patreon.com/dorked I have an Undertale webcomic here: invertedfate.com/chapters You can watch my Gerson analysis here: kzitem.info/news/bejne/uYan3qWIsXijmYo My original Alphys video is here: kzitem.info/news/bejne/k6dp22WMn5h6gqA If you like Persona, check out my fic, The Crow Cries at Midnight: archiveofourown.org/works/48777436/chapters/123046261 If you wanna catch my streams, you can follow me at: twitch.tv/derpisms True Lab Entries Pastebin: pastebin.com/Mr68qCp7 Undertale 2024 Newsletter Valentines: drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/10I1SDR5KxsqyxD8wqOVYf0STT0hJvB65
@HalfBreadChaos
7 ай бұрын
You are a braver SOUL than I am. (*salutes*)
@MatiasNovillo-wn4it
7 ай бұрын
Alphys is one of the most underrated characters in Undertale, probably more than Asgore.
@NicoTheCinderace
7 ай бұрын
I'm gonna use this video as an excuse to start watching even more of your theory videos. :)
@Magma-Idiot-2001
7 ай бұрын
I like to think Gaster was working on deciphering Souls, but he was too caught up or more interested in the entry 17 experiment (and either lacking human souls or not having enough material to study) to actually do anything. And the idea that Alphys perfected the blueprints just makes her look more intelligent.
@SketchTeddy
7 ай бұрын
This isn't important but I took a screenshot of the video so I could show my friend what I was watching and I caught it at 666 likes, just thought I should share :]
@IrvingIV
7 ай бұрын
The single BEST argument that not all the stuff in the True Lab was Alphys' work is her "using the blueprints" line, and even then, it's more of a "I'm using leftover equipment and i'm not confident" rather than "my predecessor solved everything i'm just gonna do what he did."
@IrvingIV
7 ай бұрын
Anyway, thank you @Dorked This video is a big relief. I swear the fandom has been abandoning Occam's Razor in favor of Occam's Rube Goldberg machine.
@ozzy_d6154
7 ай бұрын
i could be either or if its for something that important those blueprints wouldn’t have just been leftovers
@tobiasbayer4866
7 ай бұрын
Had the same thoughts. But even then I think people massively underestimate how much work actually goes into the phases between having just blueprints and a finished product that produced the desired results. People treat it like blueprints are like an Ikea manual that anyone could just assemble and then Alphys messes the whole thing up by injecting to much Determination. Even If Gaster had previously laid the theoretical foundations for the research Alphys still contributed huge amounts to it by actually building the machine, getting the DT and performing the experiments. Yes it didnt work in the end, but that could have been treated as a huge breakthrough milestone If Alphys wasnt so anxious about what the others would think of her now.
@gremlin2239
7 ай бұрын
with Deltarune, and the googer world at the start of the game having the same ""material"" as the dark fountains, and the dark fountains being made with Determination, it's not unreasonable to assume that the blueprints *were* made by Gaster and that he just used the Determination for an entirely different experiment from the avenue Alphys took.
@tobiasbayer4866
7 ай бұрын
@@gremlin2239 Considering the DT extractor hadnt left the blueprint stage and was only completed by Alphys, I think its safe to say that he didnt get very far with these experiments before he had his accident.
@B4K4xNi
7 ай бұрын
Genuinly hope Gaster has his own lab in the Deltarune bunker where you can read all HIS journal entries (which are clearly from a different experiement than the True Lab notes) in a manner similar to the true lab, and where Alphys's unused Entry 17 has been swapped for his somehow, because I think that would be the best punchline.
@zer0w0lf94
7 ай бұрын
I had the same thought. 😌
@drascia
7 ай бұрын
That would be so poetic
@neymiiie
7 ай бұрын
Not only would this be very fun for those in the know, it would also be very interesting lore-wise on the connection between deltarune and undertale. Now I really want it to happen even though it most definitely won’t lol
@GoodOlJenkinsYT
6 ай бұрын
Maybe his entries would be like "voice recordings" or video tapes just like the Asriel and Chara ones we found in the True Lab, rather than writings. I've seen theories suggesting that Gaster's entry 17 is actually not written but rather recorded and that's how it is "written" in his font. Meanwhile, when we see Gaster speaking to us in Deltarune, it's all written rather than him speaking directly.
@ShayyTV
7 ай бұрын
i love gaster as much as the next guy but it bothers me when people erase other characters out of the game to make room for him. great video, thanks for making this!
@ordoor
7 ай бұрын
^
@spudthefith
7 ай бұрын
People fr see anything mildly lore related and go: GUYS GASTER SEE LOOK ITS HIM and overcomplicate the story just as an excuse to ignore any clever character design /:
@Grundrisse
7 ай бұрын
@@spudthefith Their idealized version of Gaster does not overcomplicate the story, and in fact, it simplifies the story so much that it reads like a fanfic.
@spudthefith
7 ай бұрын
@@Grundrisse Yeah
@hashtags_YT
6 ай бұрын
Eh, "Writing on the wall" is still pretty solid imo.
@ShiaTheBunnyGirl
7 ай бұрын
Ive seen people defend the “Gaster wrote the entries!!!” Theory by saying “If you cant accept alphys is a fraud, then you don’t understand her character arc” and it boggles my mind. Alphys’ character arc is Alphys learning to come clean about her mistakes. She fucked up, and she knows it. But she cant just hide it forever, and she grows to face her mistakes head on. If these mistakes belonged to GASTER and not Alphys, it completely butchers Alphys’s arc and is just sloppy writing
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
Yeah, people saying it strengthens her arc... it just feels like an excuse. Alphys was never a complete fraud. She made Mettaton out of junk from the dump, turned a brick phone into a device with texting, dimensional storage, and a jetpack, and was able to discover a compound of human souls that gave them their power. She messed up, but she was also put to task in an unprecedented field and under a lot of pressure.
@tobiasbayer4866
7 ай бұрын
I dont even think her arc is about coming clean as a fraud. Objectively speaking her research has been a huge breakthrough. It just had less than favorable side effects... Its more about her avoiding to take responsibility and caring about her image, and how her friends perceive her. Her arc isnt just about stopping to lie or smth, its to accept that she has to be true to herself even If she will risk that some people will like her less. And ultimately the real lesson is that people still like her regardless and it really was her lying that was hurting people and that she was worried for nothing.
@redactedinfo8557
7 ай бұрын
@@tobiasbayer4866 that's literally the same thing as coming clean though
@thirdwheel9938
7 ай бұрын
Yeah she came clean about her mistakes but not as a fraud who had no original research. There's a HUGE difference between those two
@tobiasbayer4866
7 ай бұрын
@@redactedinfo8557 No. Yes she comes clean, but she isnt a fraud. She isnt even really a liar, as she has simply ignored everyone thats asks about the amalgamations. Thats a huge difference.
@PoyoPowerPlant
7 ай бұрын
"no No NO NO NO NO NO" -- Alphys, 20XX Everyone talks about Entry 17, but 16 is where it's at. Just look at this absolute masterpiece of an entry.
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
Honestly, that entry is proof enough that her emotional state influenced how the entries were written.
@PoyoPowerPlant
7 ай бұрын
@@Dorked Exactly! It's far from a normal way (or time) to write an entry, it's pretty neat character development.
@birdboy16
7 ай бұрын
Why did I read that in Cleveland’s voice?
@PoyoPowerPlant
7 ай бұрын
@@birdboy16 lol
@Rogue_Rouge
7 ай бұрын
imagine this but as a choir quartet singing each no
@buttermanaws4693
7 ай бұрын
Personally the only thing I put Gaster to is the blueprints, I believe it was something he was working on in it's early stages before he fell, this would also give some credit to why Asgore gave Alphys the task very soon after becoming the royal scientist as it was already a planned work in progress that he wanted to come true and some work was already done to make it happen
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
I can buy Alphys iterating on older blueprints, and I did try to at least acknowledge the possibility even if I don't think it's conclusive. I don't think that necessarily makes her a fraud, though, since scientists often iterate on the works of their predecessors.
@martinat3884
7 ай бұрын
Not everything needs to be about Gaster, the fandom needs to realize that Sans and Gaster aren't the only people important to the lore of Undertale.
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
It sucks because I think Sans is a great character and Gaster is a compelling mystery, but you don't need to undercut Alphys to make him cool.
@ZhengTheSkyCat
7 ай бұрын
I think I would put a crown of truth on you and make you the queen of truth, if I had a crown :p@@Dorked
@martinat3884
7 ай бұрын
@@Dorked Yeah my thoughts exactly. You can have the mystery of Gaster while also acknowledging that Alphys, too, is important.
@oranjaglad8648
7 ай бұрын
Ironic how the character that’s only mentioned without a clear-cut design is constantly shoved in everyone’s faces in the fandom.
@SkylerDemness
7 ай бұрын
Exactly! Though I do believe the theory that Faster had written some of the entries, I hate the fact people try to add Gaster and Sans every where.
@skydragonslayer9820
7 ай бұрын
I have a feeling this comment section will end up getting a bit toxic,mostly from people who have an irrational hatred of Alphys.
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
Yeah, I suspect there will be a lot of people mad that I'm criticizing a theory they like, too, even though I tried to be respectful about it and avoid naming names.
@Fannintendociccio1
7 ай бұрын
Honestly, I feel like in most cases it's less "I hate alphys" and more like "I have this particular idea of gaster in my head and whenever I find anything even partially ambigous in ut I will do all I can to stuff this gaster in it no matter what, ignoring the general context of the scene "
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
@@Fannintendociccio1 Yeah, a lot of people really want Gaster to be a bigger dale in Undertale's story than he was likely meant to be (as it seems all the fun events overall are meant to foreshadow Deltarune, barring perhaps some of the sillier ones like the refrigerator call).
@BelBelle468
7 ай бұрын
Undertale fandom be filled with ppl who hate moral ambiguity. Even if the characters they deem as morally superior can be just as “bad” as the ones they hate lol
@IamSans_
7 ай бұрын
Yeah this comment section is deemed to be filled with arguments and blatantly toxicity. I just wish people could just stick their opinions and call it a day
@End_Productions
7 ай бұрын
Also another thing of note. Even if it took longer for Alphys to start experimenting with determination we see that when you kill Shyren there's just a second half left behind. So maybe they used that. It is the part seen in the amalgam fight
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
That's also a really good point! I should've mentioned that. Love when people add extra contributions. o>
@Minefan200
7 ай бұрын
...Wait, but that's not part of Shyren herself, but her manager?
@ViniciusDiasissy
7 ай бұрын
Yep, the sprites say spr_shyren_agent Not only that, you can see the agent in a oficial mettaton drawing, that with the fact that she isn't there in deltarune means that they're really diferent characters
@Dzekin
7 ай бұрын
that second half is actually her agent
@ViniciusDiasissy
7 ай бұрын
I heard an headcanon that as lemon bread(shyren sister) is more similar to shyren agent(leech,slug thingy) than shyren(fish) herself, it means one of 2 things. - Shyren sister also has an agent, the other agent take a part of lemonbread body, while shyren sister is that big teethy and slimmy head(a little of Moldbygg fault), it would be fun if shyren sister is just scarier than her - Or shyren agent and lemon bread adopted shyren and are all sisters or something, I find the headcanon cute. - But again, is not like the agent is with them after the pacifist ending, maybe something happened, it would be fun if we know more about shyren in Deltarune, the only time we see her she's sick in bed
@Determ1nat1on
7 ай бұрын
It's saddening to see people's personal distaste in Alphys' personality influence their whole perception of the character. Alphys is unarguably one of the best written Undertale characters which says a lot given just how greatly written all characters are in UT. PS - I find her nerdy personality adorable :P
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
I think a lot of the reason people dislike Alphys is because they see themselves in her, and not in a flattering way, tbh.
@t0nyxaka90
7 ай бұрын
@@Dorked Y'know how the saying goes: *"People hate in others what they hate in themselves."*
@countjoelcula
7 ай бұрын
As someone who likes the character, I can kind of see how people might be put off by her because of the reveal that she was staging obstacles in the Hotland arc in order to make herself a "hero" in the protag's story. Even though it was for sympathetic reasons and she does come clean in the end, it probably reinforced the notion of her being a "fraud". It did feel like a betrayal to me when I found out, but at the same time, I still found her endearing and sympathetic.
@Nulonistic
7 ай бұрын
Hey just a friendly reminder that she inflicted existential torture on Asriel for what may have been thousands of years through his eyes!
@Yuni-is-Schrodingers-Fox
7 ай бұрын
I really just think she's overbearing, I actually like her in DR because she's a minor character who doesn't interrupt the game every 20 seconds with her undernet posts. Plus did she really need to have the 2 longest areas in the game dedicated to her plus a third smaller but still sizable area? Some of the other main characters (Asgore especially) only had half of an area to themselves at best.
@itsmebeff_
7 ай бұрын
Thank you SOOO much for making this video!! It's very well put together and thought out!! I believe that theory to be very dismissive of Alphys's character arc, and I think the idea that Gaster is just "Alphys if she was good" to be extremely stupid and disrespectful. I also believe it to be really boring? He has so much potential as a character, especially with his relation to Deltarune. Do we really need to steal the spotlight from another character just to hype him up? It's especially a funny mindset to have because the only reason Gaster is even relevant is because he FELL into his own creation. I really don't understand why people take the word of the Gaster Followers when they describe him as this "flawless genius." Would it really be that big of a stretch to say that the self-proclaimed GASTER FOLLOWERS may be a little biased when speaking about the new royal scientist? I just think that if you need to take away all nuances away from a certain character for your theory, it may not be a very good one. I also remember reading a comment on the "Writing On the Wall" theory video that grinded my gears, and it stated that Gaster succeeding with the DT experiments before Alphys tried and failed "adds to the tragedy," which I HIGHLY disagree with. A huge aspect of the DT experiments that makes them so tragic is that they CANNOT be done correctly, at least not with what Alphys was given. Asgore asked her to find a way to make monster souls persist after death, for even the SLIGHTEST CHANCE at freedom. Alphys had not only the crushing weight of the King's expectations on her shoulders, but also the entire fate of monsterkind in her hands. She was so hyperfocused on doing these experiments correctly she didn't even stop to think about the fact that they may not even be possible. And when she realized they weren't going as planned she freaked out and made things so, SO much worse. THAT is why it is so tragic. She was reaching for a goal that was unreachable, she was trying to solve something that was unsolvable. She was trying to do the IMPOSSIBLE. She was trying to set everyone free. Gaster somehow weaseling his way into perfecting the DT experiments not only makes Alphys's mistake LESS tragic, but it also just.. doesn't make sense? You already stated this in your video, but it just overcomplicates everything and makes what Alphys did seem like it stemmed from incompetence, rather than it being something that is GENUINELY impossible (which it is.) And that's another thing. People who wholeheartedly believe in this theory always hold true to the idea that Alphys is not WORTHY of being the royal scientist. They believe that she doesn't know what she's doing, that she cheated her way into Gaster's position without doing the work that he did. When that just... ISN'T the case at all. Yeah Asgore hired her because he misunderstood how Mettaton worked, but Alphys wasn't intentionally trying to mislead him? Besides, she is still shown to be VERY capable and smart. She turned a cellphone into a JETPACK for christ's sake!! She knows what she's doing, she was just tasked with something that was not only impossible, but outside of her capabilities. Which shows a lack of thought on Asgore's part more so than Alphys's (which he later apologized for.) And Gaster being the one to make Flowey just gives another one of Alphys's works to Gaster, which is lazy. Especially since Alphys creating flowey makes the DT experiments that she carried out even more nuanced. Yes, she fucked up, really badly. And she also made things worse by not telling anyone about what she did. But good DID come from it. The amalgmates were reunited with their families, AND they were brought back to life. And not only that, but FLOWEY was the one who set everyone free. Well- Asriel was, but they are one in the same. Alphys is technically responsible for monsterkind's freedom, SHE is the one who created Flowey. She made a horrible mistake while trying to free her people, that later led to her people being freed. Giving all of that to Gaster just takes away from all of that nuance, and makes it boring. Anyways, sorry for rambling in your replies, I am very passionate about Alphys as a character and I really hate to see her shoved to the side like this. I hope more people will grow to like her over time!!
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
No need to apologize! I love when people share their own thoughts and responses like this. It helps generate discussion, which is always healthy. I agree with a lot of what you're saying.
@natkaye2776
7 ай бұрын
I'm beginning to think that if Gaster were 'Alphys but good,' he maaaaaaaybe would've found a way to avoid falling into his own creation. Perhaps Gaster was more brilliant or influential than Alphys, but that alone, one of the few things we know about him, should show that he was not infallible. Depending on how one interprets how or why he fell, it might even illustrate one critical manner in which Alphys was more fortunate than he was--Alphys has people who prevent her from 'falling' or 'shattering' by dragging her out of the dark and into the light again. She has people that love her and ground her. And Gaster says 'what do you two think,' so maybe once he did have people, and he sure has admirers--but none of them successfully stopped him from shattering. Whether what happened with Gaster was deliberate or accidental, whether it was borne from despair or obsession, whether he viewed it as a fatal fall or an enlightened ascent, Alphys has suffered and slumped, but not shattered. No one mourns her as a brilliant, irreplaceable, tortured genius YET. She can heal, and she can improve, and she can learn from her mistakes--whatever happens in Deltarune, Gaster will unfortunately never get that chance in Undertale.
@tornado4376
6 ай бұрын
Very well said!
@_rd_5043
7 ай бұрын
You want to tell me people gaslighted themselves into believing Alpys isn't responsible for all the studies her whole arc is based around taking responsibility for?
@claudiogomez2816
7 ай бұрын
I didn’t know people attributed the entries to Gaster, when I first played through the true lab I thought it was pretty clear that it was Alphys’ writing. I will mention that it was back around 2016 when I first played Undertale, and theories were still somewhat primitive, since I didn’t know about the unused Alphys entry, I thought it was implied that Alphys wrote over some of the previous entries, and that entry 17 was one that she didn’t touch , haha! It just added more to Gaster’s mystery, and left me wondering why would Alphys do that... Glad that the video could clear things up even for me.
@DeeVeeLyn
7 ай бұрын
I think it's funny that the different authors theory supposes that Gaster... Succeeded in bringing the monsters who fell down in his time back to life and was like "oh well back to messing around with something else". Guy invented immortality supposedly and then rather then further those experiments.... Did something else instead?
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
Yeah, that's another thing that makes it all feel rather odd to me. I just think the immortality thing is a reach that adds nothing to the story, creates way too many questions. Especially since... y'know, endogeny exists and blows holes in that theory since the Dog Marriage's parents are a part of it. Honestly, I just think it's funny how many people got so aggressively angry and obviously didn't even watch my video and felt they had to whiteknight Sock Muppet, because I made it clear that I didn't want people to harass him. :p Because I genuinely don't want people to do so and simply feel that it's important in fan discussions to be open to critique when it comes to theories and open discussion. But people got offended at the mere existence of a video that provides counterevidence that they threw ad hominem attacks and accused me of starting a ~gang war~ and like... guys, chill out. Fan discussions and disagreements are healthy and you don't need to throw an explosive fit. I'm not upset or intimidated, just perplexed. Gang war just sends me. And the guy who got mad because I pointed out their ad hominem as if tumblr invented it when it's a logical fallacy that's been known for ages.
@miniwhiffy3465
7 ай бұрын
i mean the bits of dialog that's not him being a spooky mysterious guy i wouldn't put it past him, he's probably smart enough to know immortality was pointless especially for monsters seeing most live for quite a while (maybe forever for ghosts or skeletons) and or decided he can't really know if they are immortal till like a long time in the future and he didn't expect to stop existing in his world.
@miniwhiffy3465
7 ай бұрын
or he could embody adhd and can't focus on one experiment for enough time and moved on.
@B4K4xNi
7 ай бұрын
Was listening to a video just yesterday jumping through hoops to fit Gaster in to the true lab and it reminded me this was coming out soon. Now it's here! Bless! Haven't listened yet, but im sure its going to be a huge pallet clense to have someone appreciate Alphys and let her be a brillant scientist in her own right. Not only does making Gaster the inventer of DT rob Alphys of all her scientific acheivement, but it also robs her of her greatest flaws and the source of her darkest secret. People need to realize that ascibing *all* events as actually being secretly Gaster really robs other characters of their agency and role.
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
Yeah, I never got the whole "Alphys being a fraud makes her story better" thing because the entire point of her arc is that she was still a skilled enough scientist to build mettaton, modify the phone, discover DT, and she just got in over her head due to the lack of past work to draw upon. And her own fears and regrets kept her from coming clean for a while.
@NicoTheCinderace
7 ай бұрын
@@Dorked That checks, pretty much.
@B4K4xNi
7 ай бұрын
@@Dorked Yeah!! She's way better being too smart for her own good than just some fraud trying to impress people. A young prodigy biting off way more than she can chew and digging herself deeper and deeper in a panic is so much more compelling, complex, and quite frankly relatable than some swindler with a crush on the king. Alphys *does* lie sometimes, she does set up scenarios to impress people because of her insecurities, but those lies come when she's done something incredible already and she doesn't have the confidence to believe she can do it again.
@ethicalapemen3686
7 ай бұрын
The only fraud Alphys ever did was lying about Mettaton being an AI that she programmed. MTT isn't software, he's a ghost in a machine. Yes, I know that's pretty much Ryle, but my point stands. Aside from that and lying to Frisk, Alphys is NOT a fraud overall. She's a brilliant engineer who didn't stay in her lane and made promises she couldn't keep.
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
Yeah, it's not that Alphys didn't lie, obviously, but people try to lean *too* hard into the fraud angle.
@ethicalapemen3686
7 ай бұрын
@@Dorked And you're right, that's giving her way too little credit. Especially considering that, if Alphys had the foresight to come up with a way to measure the DT intake levels for each of the monsters, she could've avoided the Amalgamates fiasco and instead created a cure for Falling Down. Hell, that could still happen, and it'd be a really good drug for humans to take who have Anxiety or Depression.
@rsj2877
7 ай бұрын
@@ethicalapemen3686and also thinking that i could also be that in the post-true pacifist stuff, she with much more confidence and likely help from human scientists and what not, looks to salvage the DT experiment, with the thing you said of proper DT inputing to monsters so they don't melt, or even figure out a way to undo the amalgamates melting down and fusing, even if its not fully perfect. And even imagining that with the fangame Yellow, im even imagining that unintentionally, Kanako there can be an example, like her Receiving far less DT than the other monsters before, like she got injected lightly as the monsters were about to go home but before they turned to amalgmates, however her Amalkanako while still left melty, doesn't fuse with others and maybe hint that her being Boss monster, helped her handle DT better than most.
@strawberrycheesecake6788
7 ай бұрын
i love alphys i wish people didn't hate her sm :((
@NicoTheCinderace
7 ай бұрын
Same. :((
@ToyFreddyGaming1987
7 ай бұрын
I've seen people say "the fandom makes Gaster the one behind everything", and I can see why. *Maybe* in Deltarune he's behind it all, but in Undertale Gaster's significance to the greater plot is likely small. I wonder how far you could go with the whole "Gaster is behind everything" mindset. Now I wanna see some crack theory that Gaster is the true mastermind of basically all Video Games, or something like that. That'd be funny to me atleast.
@ericr.malice318
7 ай бұрын
that would make for a good shitpost video for someone to make
@friskycalibri2293
6 ай бұрын
Good? That sounds like a phenomenal shitpost.
@Osaid482
7 ай бұрын
My first thought about those entries on my first playthrough is that they've been written by Alphys, never thought that they were written by someone else because if they were (especially Gaster), we would have found them in a different room or they would talk about something that doesn't match with her personality.
@ScarletPhoenix0
7 ай бұрын
I will never forget how this video was LITERALLY whipped together in 2 weeks because Dorked was really salty about the writing on the wall theory asdfkoik amazing video! Lookin forward to more
@sirexilon49
7 ай бұрын
I just realized something interesting about Alphys: When she explains Mew Mew Kissy Cutie to you/Frisk she mentions how the moral of the story is that controlling people... before cutting herself off, my guess is that the moral would be that controlling people to solve your problems is wrong which kinda foreshadows Alphys' character arc of revealing her mistakes instead of continuing to lie to others.(and also telling Undyne that anime isn't real) Though I may just be reading too much into it.
@simon9687
7 ай бұрын
Dorked based alphys defender
@FireLock49YT
2 ай бұрын
I think a lot of people tend to forget that we only know a fraction of all the events that happened in the underground as a whole. I believe it was stated in the game, but I very much could be wrong; I believe there was a 20-year gap between the human that fell before Frisk and when Frisk fell. Now, the gap between when all the humans that fell could be longer or shorter, but using some basic math, I believe there are about 150 years that we as players don't know about. I believe Gaster had his own separate experiments he did while he was royal scientist. Everything we know about the true lab is, simply put, all Alphys.
@mattsterical577
7 ай бұрын
the only way it works is if all memory of gaster was erased and reality rewrote everything he did to adjust to that, changing all of gaster's accomplishments to be alphys'. the problem with this is that there is no evidence that nobody remembers gaster. there is instead more evidence proving otherwise, but people keep hinging their theories on this fanon idea that was never proven.
@naotohex
7 ай бұрын
Sometimes the most simple explanation is the answer.
@ericr.malice318
7 ай бұрын
^ Not every game is written by Scott Cawthon. Some games have cohesive narratives that can be easily understood in a single playthrough (or two) without digging for secrets.
@miyayuzu4473
7 ай бұрын
wait what, I didnt even know this was a question, of course she did :o
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
Sadly, this has been a thing since at least 2016 with people like Underlab and Camila Cuevas stoking the flames. =_=
@oranjaglad8648
7 ай бұрын
@@DorkedKnowing Camila as a person, I’d say the Gaster and Alphys thing isn’t even the *worst* thing she’s lied about.
@MetalizedSoul
7 ай бұрын
@@oranjaglad8648 oh no... i think i know what u are referencing!!
@oranjaglad8648
7 ай бұрын
@@MetalizedSoul Yeah. It's for the better we don't forget what she's like.
@MetalizedSoul
7 ай бұрын
@@oranjaglad8648 ... true, like I enjoy Glitchtale I even put it in my top favourite 5 AU's of all time but it's not an excuse for what she's done.
@jupiterstevens-hill7331
7 ай бұрын
Alphys is so important to the pacifist run's theme that I think the fandom ignoring/hating her has contributed to a lot of the oversimplification of the game's message into just "violence bad" rather than a more nuanced take on how to care about things responsibly. It is so clear within the text of the game that Alphys is supposed to represent the type of person who would love Undertale. She is the most relatable main character to the average rpg player. I think the reason why she is hated so much (besides misogyny) is because we don't want to admit that she's a commentary on us. There is a reason why the deciding factor separating a pacifistic neutral run from a true pacifist run is the alphys date/true lab segment. There's a reason why monsters literally cannot be free until she learns to love herself. There is a reason why she is the character who created flowey. There is a reason why she is important.
@BelBelle468
7 ай бұрын
Ppl love the goat boy but don’t seem to understand the ending just left Flowey to a fate worse than death all alone in the underground (besides mushroom man and snowman). The game’s supposed message of violence being bad becomes null when we consider that morally gray actions, messed up experiments, and 2 children ending their lives for others is what saves the monsters.
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
Oh, that's a great point, though! Alphys is a fantastic example of the core themes of Undertale and how even people who make huge mistakes can change and improve. That's a core theme that shines through a lot of the cast. Like how Mettaton treated his friends and family like shit once he became a star, but in the end reaches out to them and includes them in his life again or how Undyne went from being so hostile toward Frisk that she told them they should give up their life to genuinely enjoying their company.
@lukiia9854
7 ай бұрын
Literally never heard the theory that gaster wrote half the entries and I personally never held it, like it crumbles under the smallest scrutiny and it's heavily implied it's all Alphys anyway. What were people thinking???
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
I think the other video's production values and presentation played a big part in it. It's clear there was thought put into it in that it was very meticulously constructed, but the problem is the evidence ignores very blatant counter evidence. I didn't even touch upon the ink being wet in Asgore's journal because I really just wanted to focus on the greater argument regarding Alphys and Gaster that existed even before the Writing on the Wall video, but I also felt that the fact that so many people were swayed while missing all the counterevidence made it worth making a video on the subject because enough misinformation was spread. It can be very easy to forget what was in the original game, and I think it's healthy to step back, look at what's actually in the game, and consider writing and story structure and what makes the most sense in the form of a cohesive narrative.
@sweethistortea
7 ай бұрын
I feel like Alphys was really popular at one point but then as W.D Gaster’s fan base grew, she got shelved like stall ramen.
@princetbug
7 ай бұрын
Happy you did a video on this, Dorked. I was kind of hoping you would
@Horbiflorbin
7 ай бұрын
The fact that people seriously think an literal plot point undoubtedly related to Alphys isn't related to her is dumb af, toby really needs to release chapter 3 bc the fandom is going insane
@Xixi_the_princess
7 ай бұрын
“Until everything goes to sh*t” Call me surprised because I was NOT expecting you to say that 😂
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
YEAH, I only swear sparingly in my videos. xD
@Xixi_the_princess
7 ай бұрын
@@Dorked But to be fair, how ELSE is the honestly screwed up situation Alphys accidentally got herself into would be appropriate to describe lol
@sir-dame-sander
7 ай бұрын
THANK YOU. I’m a gaster enthusiast but he was 100% already “dead” by the time the true lab experiments started happening. the only entry that could reasonably be his is the one in wingdings (which I think was about a different experiment n likely where alphys got “the blueprints” she mentions from). the others all make complete n total sense as alphys presenting her solo work professionally but slowly losing control until she breaks down n can’t manage to keep up appearances anymore. people are ABSOLUTELY not giving her enough credit, it doesn’t even make sense that gaster would’ve done the same experiments as her in the first place
@nathancollins1715
7 ай бұрын
15:05 You know, I've always just assumed that Gerson IS a Boss Monster. Think about it: he's lived unfathomably long, at least long enough to have participated in the War of Humans and Monsters, which seems to have occurred hundreds if not thousands of years ago. I don't care what species you are, not even turtles live that long. There's also nothing in the game that suggests that Boss Monsters have to look like goats, there could be other types of Boss Monsters. He has an uncanny awareness of the mechanics of the world he lives in, not unlike Asgore knowing that humans can relive events over and over (although in both cases, that could be chalked up to experience rather than what kind of monster they are.) Finally, consider the fact that Boss Monsters only age and die after they have children to pour their life force into. In the Deltarune universe, Gerson has a son, and guess what? He's dead. Edit: well, I probably should have watched that entire section before commenting since you already brought it up, lol. But I still stand by the fact that Gerson not being a goat monster is no reason to assume he can't be a Boss Monster. I see a lot of people pointing to that fact like it's damning, when in reality such a requirement is mentioned zero times in Undertale. As for Dogamy and Dogaressa, I tend to think the whole Nose Nuzzling Champ thing is a legitimate plot hole that Toby just missed. He wanted to make a joke/foreshadow the relationship between Asgore and Toriel, and ignored the timeline of events to make it fit. Either that, or the Dogi are much older than they look. But I doubt they're Boss Monsters, else we would get the heart-exploding animation that we get with Toriel and Asgore when they die. Either way, I think sometimes people try way too hard to make contradictory events work in a timeline when the more obvious answer is that Toby just made a tiny mistake. It's a problem in this and many, many other fandoms. Sometimes, part of loving a work is admitting that there are goofs from time to time. The Undertale universe isn't real, its creators aren't infallible, and sometimes an impossibly old dog is just an impossibly old dog, or a fish being comatose for an unnaturally long time is just a contrivance without much thought put into it. To paraphrase the Jojo fandom: Toby forgot.
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
Yeah, the boss monster theory is an interesting angle, but it really depends on if Alvin and any of his other kids exist offscreen in Undertale. We just don't know. I've also seen it argued that part of why he's still alive is because he's always in his shop. xD
@nathancollins1715
7 ай бұрын
@@Dorked >the secret to monster immortality is owning and operating a shop Jesus Christ, h-how old is Temmie exactly??
@ghengiroo4143
7 ай бұрын
@@DorkedI personally believe in the “Gerson is a Boss Monster” headcanon, and my two guesses for how Gerson’s alive in UT but dead in DR are: 1. The timeline is just different, the same way you have stuff like Rudy still being alive and Asriel being a college student at the same time MK is a teenager. 2. The concept of a Boss Monster doesn’t exist in DR. And of course both of these could potentially be true at the same time.
@duykhangtran4406
7 ай бұрын
I always just assume Gerson live in UT but died in DT have something to do with the fact that he participated in the war. I was going to say he might have took a human soul during that time but that would be in conflict with the Waterfall lore drop. Well, unless they hided or not aware of it that is
@MasquedMocha
5 ай бұрын
its still wild to me that sans wrote that entry about being scared mettaton wont need him after he finished his body
@Dorked
5 ай бұрын
He didn't. xD Some people just think that because lower case.
@Jetaru
7 ай бұрын
Thank you so much for making this! I saw that theory a few days ago and you basically said everything that I thought was wrong with that theory. To me the most obvious reason that it doesn't hold up is that if Gaster was successful in his experiments, why would Asgore go back and ask Alphys to do the same thing? It seems counter productive to me. Also, if Gaster HAD pulled off something like that, wouldn't we hear more about the literal cure for death? Why did Alphy's not mention anything in her entries about the previous scientists work? The whole theory that Gaster wrote some of the entries in the true lab just creates more questions than it answers.
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
Some people would argue Gaster was forgotten, but there's really nothing in the game that confirms this (see: My Gaster misconceptions video). But yeah, you basically hit the nail on the head. It also just feels rather... odd, I think, to assert that Gaster did the same thing but better. Like it's just another excuse to bash Alphys.
@ericr.malice318
7 ай бұрын
Commenting for the algorithm! Also, this video's really well-put-together, gets your points across clearly and has good evidence backing it up. You did a great job here, Dorked, as per usual. :]
@Beegsire
7 ай бұрын
... Like. Doesn't Alphys give a speech immediately after you activate the elevator about how *she* was asked to investigate Souls? And she feels guilt about the amalgamations. And... are people really that determined to not give Alphys credit for literally anything?
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
Yes. It's founded mainly on the idea that the entries are not all written in the same grammatical style, when Sans alternates between normal grammar and text in serious moments and Alphys herself is shown to both write in proper grammar with her letter and Mew Mew Kissy Cutie 2 Review in Deltarune and lazier texts on the Undernet (and even then, sometimes she uses all caps or Talks Like This).
@Beegsire
7 ай бұрын
@Dorked I mean that's a fair mistake I suppose but one of if not the most famous line in Undertale features Sans breaking his lower-case habit (Should be burning in hell). As you've pointed out, different characters use different grammatical styles, that is extremely prevalent.
@Nulonistic
7 ай бұрын
So everything Alphys claims that makes her look better is a lie... except this one thing. Got it.
@Beegsire
7 ай бұрын
@@Nulonistic You'll have to forgive me but I've sat here reading this for a solid 5 minutes and cannot understand what you mean.
@Nulonistic
7 ай бұрын
@@Beegsire She is a serial and compulsive liar. She lied to Asgore about Mettaton. She lied to the citizens of the underground about their relatives fate. She lied to the player about everything in Hotland. She lied to Undyne about her human interests. She lied to the player about the soul power necessary to leave the Underground. She lied to Mettaton about their new body. She lies during your date repeatedly. Her primary character flaws/traits are her dishonesty and her insecurity and they almost always go hand in hand. Her first instinct in every situation is to lie in order to make herself look better because she fears the truth will make her unloveable. And once she created Flowey and the Amalgamates, she was right. Locking living beings in your basement and inflicting an eternity of suffering on a dead child are utterly unforgiveable crimes.
@Zero001LP
7 ай бұрын
The whole idea for the theory just baffles me. All the entries read as if Alphys wrote them, they all fit in nicely to the story and the arc, the only exceptions being those couple weird entries which don't fit but I'm pretty sure they're not even in-game anyway. Anyone but maybe like the humans, skeletons and the in-betweens is just forgotten about and considered to "not be important" for some reason... I did have this discussion with a friend about how "Alphys sucks" but the only reason for thinking that was most likely the lack of understanding of Alphys overall (which I found out to be the case after pulling out a whole wall of Lore), which is honestly a shame. The characters are all great, and for Alphys to be pushed aside for someone who's just been gutted across everywhere and nowhere and a short bonehead is kinda sad and makes me miss the older fandoms works that weren't always centered around them.
@notfloweyyt7618
7 ай бұрын
Honestly I get why people do try to move away from Alphys I think they don’t really know how to write Alphys Or they just really really hate her Likely because she as a character directly wrongs you and makes the game harder as opposed to just fighting you She is the most direct threat causing you the most difficulty in the game itself and doesn’t have a fight to fall in love with Hence they kinda fall into obscurity to many people. Sad I love alphys and this true lab is so good because it’s her Making it partially someone else even if that was the truth just weakens alphys significantly
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
I think people are more inclined to cling to Gaster because there's so little character information that they can just imagine him to be whatever, so they wanna imagine hes' this cool, epic scientist who is better than Alphys and some mastermind behind UT's plot when like... If you want that, there's Deltarune.
@notfloweyyt7618
7 ай бұрын
Yeah it’s kinda because I don’t think you can write too much past Undertale for Alphys so you have to do before which requires a lot more effort for people People really don’t have much to do with Alphys once she’s on the surface and she just gets turned into “girlfriend of Undyne” And it’s kinda sad even the game kinda does this but in normal Undertale her story is very strong and more clear with a beginning and end as opposed to most characters who still have things they want and need So hence people disregard the only character I’d say that truly is given a complete happy ending with not much more to want
@justcallmekai1554
7 ай бұрын
@@notfloweyyt7618I think it's a combination of your comment and the other above. Long comment incoming. -Alphas storyline is "solved". Basically you know what its about and it's a definitive end to her arc. Little to no mystery to it. As you said she's harder to write for. Since she's "solved" you gotta come up with something completely different as opposed to Sans and Gaster who have lose ends to their characters that folks can branch from. That's why you see a shit of of AU'S with them (with varying quality lol) - The lack of a boss fight really does hurt her memorablity as opposed to others like The Skeleton Bros, Undyne, Flowey, Asgore, and Toriel. The games main way to use its bullet hell gameplay. In that sense she's the odd one out. This even shows in her presence. Undyne and Asgore are physically strong and command attention (One having a final boss and the other being one of 2 monsters to put up a fight in the Genocide route), Papyrus and Sans have great chemistry and are hilarious (Sans having a darker side to him helps and "that fight") Toriel is the first monster you meet making a players first impression of the game and Flowey is (despite the name) just a maniac and tampers with you throughout the game with 2 whole final bosses. Alphys is just kinda there which makes sense given her character at first. She's (or was) meek and hides herself away. What if we had a fight her in true lab when she tries to impede you about finding her secrets? Or a Geno boss fight where she was inspired by Undynes sacrifice and also decides to stall you so the monsters can escape? -Sans unlike Alphys got MAJOR popularity in the fanbase and even outside of it. Parodies, Memes, Megalovania existing, animations, AU's etc. Gaster being linked to Sans gave him similar notoriety along with his mysterious nature. So much so ppl can come up with ideas they may or may not be present in the game. It's a shame because she is like the rest of the cast a great character. She just gets overshadowed by others.
@redballoon9007
7 ай бұрын
Despite her not having a boss fight weakening her memorability, it makes sense that she’s the only one to not have a main boss fight. Alphys (for lack of a better term cus I still love her) is a coward. She constantly lied to everyone about the amalgamations and she doesn’t give the impression of someone who’d physically fight at all. In fact giving her a boss fight would feel very out of character for her. But the way one of the reply-ers sets it up to be a boss fight in the true labs once you discover the amalgamations actually makes it work. Alphys is conflict avoidant and Frisk (or the player) outing Alphys’s secrets would make conflict. And I believe Alphys is more afraid of people hating her for the amalgamations than being in a fight. And so for the first time, she chooses fight instead of flight. And the boss battle can work like Toriel’s where the more you talk to Alphys and try to calm her down, the less heavy the attacks get, until Alphys gives up, maybe it ends with a hug or something Idk. I do think Alphys not getting a fight should make her stand out a bit more but unfortunately that’s not how fandom/players received the method used, and so I think it would have been a bit better for Alphys to have a boss battle. But just in this specific instance.
@Yuti640
7 ай бұрын
I literally just finished watching Writing on The Walls earlier today
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
Haha, that video is what brought this discourse back. No personal shade to Sock Muppet, but I just don't agree with the arguments made there.
@Barakon
7 ай бұрын
10:48 Gaster started & then quickly abandoned his de-termination in favor of the the darkened realms.
@porytal6390
7 ай бұрын
I watched this video immediately after I watched Sock Muppet's video, and yeah, this just makes more sense. My first reaction to the True Lab back in 2016 made me think that Alphys wrote the entries, but I believed the Gaster theory anyway because I never did a deep dive on the True Lab until today and just figured that those theorists had more information and had a better understanding of the basic information. Plus, I'm a sucker for Occam's Razor, so it wasn't too hard to convince me.
@joshuas9
20 күн бұрын
I wouldn't be surprised if the TRUE LAB once belonged to gaster at one point in time before Alphys started doing her stuff in there. Also Lowkey would LOVE to see UT Alphys and DR Alphys go on a debate/Argument about which Mew Mew is better
@BlazingWarior26
7 ай бұрын
One part of the writing in the walls theory I REALLY liked though, is Entry 17 not being an actual written entry, but a video of Gaster directing it. This is the only part of it that fully adds up, as comparing Entry 17 to the other videos that we see in Undertale, they're pretty much identical. The camera doesn't pick up anything due to it being too dark and we only hear sounds and people talking
@Minefan200
7 ай бұрын
Considering you needed to teleport to the room with the entry inside of it, it could be interpreted as you being in the room with Gaster while he was noting his results
@BlazingWarior26
7 ай бұрын
@@Minefan200 WHAT DO YOU TWO THINK- WHY IS THERE A CHILD HERE?
@An_Account1
7 ай бұрын
@@BlazingWarior26 It turns out that the two people Gaster was referring to were Frisk and Chara.
@tigerbear5845
7 ай бұрын
I'm pretty sure Dorked said in other comments this was one of the few parts of the video she liked/saw merit in. To me, the rest of the theory is still terrible though.
@goldfishchromee
7 ай бұрын
Rest In Determination Juice, Kanako
@NightKeo
7 ай бұрын
She’s not really resting in her currents state 😭
@goldfishchromee
7 ай бұрын
@@NightKeo It's probably fairly restful being a white noodle
@nosequeponerperoaquihayalgo
7 ай бұрын
Why do people even think that , like alk gaster did is the core and die
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
They put too much stock into the True Lab entries having different writing styles when Alphys herself has different writing styles, between her letter outside the True Lab and even within her own text messages and status updates, she alternates writing style based on mood.
@nosequeponerperoaquihayalgo
7 ай бұрын
I just realiced the if website has more secrets i god the lulaby one was sad ... just to increase my depresion i love it@@Dorked
@AloeHalo
7 ай бұрын
@@nosequeponerperoaquihayalgooh, i now know what the other secret is, thanks
@nosequeponerperoaquihayalgo
7 ай бұрын
@@AloeHalo i wouod ratter find them on my own
@AloeHalo
7 ай бұрын
@@nosequeponerperoaquihayalgo I found the other one on my own, I'm not really using the wiki
@zionj104
7 ай бұрын
Wow, you do an actually good Alphys voice! Really adds to the video, great job!
@ymcan6427
7 ай бұрын
Very nice video and analysis of the True Lab. Writing on the Wall did leave me with some questions though I didn't think the premise of two sets of DT experiments made much sense, but after discussing it with some friends those were cleared up. It is nice to some of the conclusions they came up with reflected here too. Keep up the good work.
@brolytriplethreat
4 ай бұрын
I mean, it's possible there _were_ 2 "DT Experiments". Just that Gaster's wasn't the same, and was cut off before it got to the practical stage by him time confetti-ing. All Alphys had were blueprints, afterall, clearly Gaster never got around to building the Extractor. But yeah, going off Gaster's Entry Seventeen, his own experiments seemed related to the Dark Fountains and Deltarune, something Determination _is_ involved in to an extent, but ultimately a seperate operation from the one that created the Amalgamates and Flowey
@Bhoooooooo
7 ай бұрын
Also why would Alphys even be a main character if she haven’t done anything? Great vid
@Q-werty30
7 ай бұрын
Shure Gaster is connected to the true lab, but to me it feels like it’s something Alphys has to live up too rather than copy from
@tornado4376
6 ай бұрын
You are so right about the Gaster insertion into these experiments being clumsy as an analysis, we really gotta remember the occam's razor sometimes. Alphys' story in the true lab is my favourite part of the game because of how well it explains and connects everything together. And it's genuinely so creepy and horrifying on its own too, I think we oughta meet the story on its own terms every so often because strictly from a narrative perspective it makes for a much more fulfilling story that than inserting secrets and niche lore into it. Gaster stuff is fun, I'd say way more so for Deltarune where it's more relevant. But Alphys having much deeper secrets than what was on the surface was so genuinely cool and interesting to me, and like you said it's a more elegant story, it's a better story than 'actually plot twist this was all done by a character that's not even in the game!' And yeah I noticed the different grammar and style in the entries too and always appreciated how they told a story of their own and how they established the tone for her character and research! Alphys is my absolute favourite character in the game for this whole storyline and the depth of character, and I'm so happy to see this video outlining this about her! Thanks for making this
@KrisCrossssss
7 ай бұрын
the real question here is, why did anyone think alphys DIDN'T write these???
@DogsRNice
7 ай бұрын
It was obviously written by the Gman from half life Furthermore the G clearly is short for Gaster
@DogsRNice
7 ай бұрын
Basically half life 3 confirmed for 201X
@MoRPho151
7 ай бұрын
Thank you for this video! Is very clear and well explained!! This theory has been around for a while, is good to have all those points resumed on a video. My headcanon about the flower is that Asgore preserved the flower in a jar, and he showed it to Alphys so she had the idea. After all he knows and loves to take care of flowers, and probably preserve that flower was his way to have Asriel with him after death. Something as simple as that can solve that plot point.
@MishMarsh-y6g
6 ай бұрын
Ok I believe Alphys made all of the entries. Not sans, not gaster. Gaster was forgotten about by everyone and all of the evidence that he existed was wiped. The one that we can find that was made by G boy was the famous #17. But with that you have to dig around a lot. Alphys made flowey. BUT gaster did make the DT extractor, most likely unfinished but with the blueprints. Alph never talks about making a giant skull machine. We wouldn’t know it existed if it wasn’t there. Besides it’s basically a gaster blaster. GASTER blaster. But the thought that gaster wrote anything other than 17 isn’t right.
@Minefan200
6 ай бұрын
Gaster was not forgotten, Sans's blueprints were written in wingdings and the CORE was still there. Doesnt mean Gaster wrote the entries, though.
@MishMarsh-y6g
6 ай бұрын
@@Minefan200 good point! it’s not entirely confirmed, but yes it’s most likely. Did overlook that….
@MishMarsh-y6g
6 ай бұрын
The blueprint wasn’t entirely confirmed but yes he made the core. The core is confirmed
@Minefan200
6 ай бұрын
@@MishMarsh-y6g The blueprint was made very distinct by he fact that it was written in "Unrecognizablw symbols". Different to the blueprint in Alphys's lab, which was written in chicken scratch. Considering it's the same place where we find the Deltarune stuff, it's *definitely* related to Gaster.
@MishMarsh-y6g
6 ай бұрын
@@Minefan200 yeah lol I was talking in technicality. “Not entirely confirmed” (for me) is just not saying YEP ITS WINGDINGS. He definitely wrote those. My mindset in this based on the fact you cannot make your name Gaster. So that kind of led me on this path. There’s a lot of mystery around the man and while most of the proof of his existence is gone, the blueprints are still there. Will have to think about this… but I do agree.
@naturalnova69
7 ай бұрын
I think both theories/videos make good points, but i agree with you, alphys' story would be extreme dampened if gaster did determination experiments to the level of alphys' but he succeeded. Not only is it just kinda... not necessary, it also takes away from alphys' guilt and what she did to the amalgams. Even if gaster is likely smart and more competent then alphys, id guess he'd deem the risk not worth it, making him move onto dark world experimentation. Also my own qualm about the othrr video, im not a fan of how "gasters" entrys went from determination and then suddenly into dark worlds with no build up to dark worlds or changing experiments at all. Either way nice one!
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
Yeah, some people have tried to argue that Gaster went crazy, but we have nothing that proves his demeanor changed at all, so that's just conjecture. Every time we have seen dialogue from Gaster, it has been phrased similarly to his Entry Number 17 (though I do think the idea of it being a recording is an interesting one).
@BelBelle468
7 ай бұрын
Honestly idk if the goners can be seen as “successes”, unless I’m misunderstanding (I only saw some of the video).
@naturalnova69
7 ай бұрын
@@Dorked Yeah as you said, evertime a charecter gets a new speaking pattern its not for no reason, nor is it unexplained or just random (also a reason why i no longer belive mystery valentines writer to be the doctor) i feel like people miss the point of gasters inclusion in undertale, not as a mystery OF UNDERTALE, but foreshadowing to a main charecter of deltarune, but i guess that isnt confirmed, so who knows lol
@Shrooblord
7 ай бұрын
I haven't watched the full vid yet so I assume you'll touch on No. 17 at some point -- that one aside, which also doesn't actually exist within the game itself (since Gaster was lost to this world): it wouldn't make sense for any of the other entries to be his. He was erased. Or... lost in another way we don't fully understand yet (potentially never will?) Thank you for continuing to put credit to Alphys! One of my favourite characters. So complex and yet so misunderstood
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
Oh, I do briefly touch on both entry 17's, but the main focus of this video is disproving the notion that there are two authors of the True Lab entries- e.g. the ones in normal gameplay.
@djgamer6498
7 ай бұрын
I feel like it's fairly obvious that alphys is the one the wrote every single lab entry except for 17
@deltashard7980
7 ай бұрын
Huh. Guess i didn't think about the other theory. And how little we actually know about monsters... But if dogamy and dogaressa are both simply elderly, then, could all the humans have fallen within the lifespan of a monster? That opens.... A lot of ideas
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
Honestly, I think Toby left the timeline fairly vague on purpose. The exact dates are less important than the vibes and heart of the story. Hell, the year Chara fell (201X) is just "any time in the 2010's".
@tkienjoyer
7 ай бұрын
"I want to stop hating it here, that's why I keep coming back."
@blazie42069
7 ай бұрын
The only entry that was likely written by Gaster is entry 17 Also I really enjoyed Alphys as a character
@tadeolaguarda6965
7 ай бұрын
There was people saying that Alpysh didn't wrote the diary entrys at the true lab and didn't did the experiments?
@Place_Your_Order_Here
7 ай бұрын
There's a out there that that?
@Ryzer235
Ай бұрын
My theory for why Gerson is so old in Undertale is that he is a Boss Monster. He seems to know an awful lot about the concept of Boss Monsters as to my knowledge he’s the only person who directly tells you about Boss Monsters and how they age. This also ties into Deltarune, as I think Gerson is alive in Undertale but dead in Deltarune as his son Alvin doesn’t exist/ isn’t around anymore in Undertale, meaning he doesn’t age. However, he died before Deltarune because he started aging due to his son Alvin. (Maybe Boss Monsters work differently in Deltarune, we don’t know yet, but I’m assuming they work the same.) We haven’t seen any examples of Boss Monsters outside of the Dreemurr Family so I’m not sure if it’s specific to the ‘goat’ monsters or something. An interesting theory I haven’t heard anyone else mention before.
@Ryzer235
Ай бұрын
Oops wait I was literally seconds behind Dorked mentioning that exact theory in her video. 😂
@Justanotherlifeform-xx8lq
4 ай бұрын
I also am super irritated by this theory! Always felt like eraseing alphas story to me. Glad to see I am not alone in this!
@spongebobguy2cook
7 ай бұрын
Thus video helped me with the whole Queen line it bothered me with how She seemed to been working when Toriel was around from my understanding
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
Yeah, that was a point I somehow overlooked in my initial Alphys video and another reason I wanted to make an updated one focusing on the true lab entries.
@completelyblank1242
7 ай бұрын
Like I think it's Pretty Obvious that Alphys made All of the true Lab entries like Gaster had nothing to fo with them.
@Yuti640
7 ай бұрын
What i believe is Gaster involved are these “blueprints” that are mentioned, that or sans involved, since Alphys mentions the blueprints as if they were there before she was, but that’s really the only part that makes sense when tied to characters that aren’t alphys That and the extractor, which, quite suspiciously, has a note written in all caps, titling the DT Extractor With a machine as complex as the extractor that isn’t designed by Alphys, it would make sense that it was already there and she was able to use the information from the blueprints to isolate determination, though this is just speculation and the fact that Alphys discovered determination places doubt in Gaster making the physical extractor rather than just the blueprints … It’s funny that whenever i write something it shows up in a video i’m watching, I literally wrote the whole above comment and then you mentioned the blueprints, wow
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
Oh yeah, I can buy Gaster being at least somewhat involved with blueprints, even if I think it's not confirmed. But iterating on an earlier work is certainly not lazy. Alphys literally does that when upgrading the phone. xD
@Oceane1803
7 ай бұрын
Huh. I thought it was obvious. Especially now that we have more instances of Gaster talking, and it's clear that he has a very recognizable manner of speech which is seen in none of the True lab's entries. And even with the lowercase entries, it clearly can't be Sans since, as you explained, the context of what's said in these entries fits with what Alphys tells us. She's clearly stressed about the determination experiments going wrong.
@Bengt2509
7 ай бұрын
i feel like you underestimate the gaster fans and alphys haters
@Oceane1803
7 ай бұрын
@@Bengt2509 I guess I do, but then it means they probably have poor judgement.
@NicoTheCinderace
7 ай бұрын
@@Oceane1803 It's a shame that people hate Alphys so much. I think she's a fascinating character.
@Oceane1803
7 ай бұрын
@@NicoTheCinderace Same
@herosshade2247
7 ай бұрын
Gaster is just the easy catch-all for anything mysterious.
@jellyjamie_
7 ай бұрын
I ADORE ALL THE POINTS HERE!!! alphys is such an amazing character that gets sidelines WAY too much, so im so incredibly happy to see her getting appreciation 🎉❤🦎
@ihavesansinmyroomhelpme
7 ай бұрын
bruh nah how do ppl not know that????💀💀💀💀
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
People REALLY latch on to the grammar changing between some of the entries.
@Ezecool-3105
7 ай бұрын
Who thought she wasn't the one that wrote them? Those entries are about how the amalgamates were made, she did it Except for gaster's Entry Number 17
@ivythay4259
7 ай бұрын
The DT Extractor looks nothing like something Alphys would invent. Her style is cartoonish and boxy, whereas the Extractor is a giant, ominous skull. Gaster absolutely has a reason to have s connection to bones, which I need not explain. Just because the Gaster Blasters and the DT Extractor are not the same *type* of skull does not mean they are not in the same style. I don't know why you'd dismiss such a thing. Also, about the blueprints in Sans's basement, Frisk *should* be able to read it to some degree, as even though Alphys has bad handwriting, her note left behind was still legible enough, as well as the others within the True Lab. I really appreciate and agree with the point that people shouldn't be attributing all of Alphys's accomplishments erroneously to her predecessor. However, I do feel like you overextended on these two aspects. Alphys ran the DT experiments on the monsters and Flowey. Alphys wrote all those entries about said experiments. Alphys absolutely at least built the DT Extractor. But I just cannot see how she'd design the DT Extractor to be so radically different from anything else she's ever made, especially when you mentioned the G. Blasters also being skull-like. I don't think you're putting enough stock into her 'building something from the blueprints'.
@cindyzhaoyingzi8719
7 ай бұрын
im sorry what? why does the DT extractor need to be in the same style as Alphys’s other inventions? Her focus is making something that would extract DT successfully and finding a way to have monster souls remain after the death of its host, not making something that looks ✨ aesthetic ✨.
@m8.614
7 ай бұрын
@@cindyzhaoyingzi8719 "not making something that looks aesthetic" and yet its a clearly stylized creepy skull??? that argument doesnt even make sense lmao the dt extractor is clearly a fancy aesthetic instead of pure function.
@Minefan200
7 ай бұрын
Honestly, this point is valid. Which Dorked has acknowledged on other comment replies. The DT Extractor could be from prior Royal Scientist work, since Dark Worlds do require Determination to form...
@ivythay4259
7 ай бұрын
@@cindyzhaoyingzi8719 If it was purely utilitarian, why the hell would she go out of her way to make it into a skull? Explain that. Explain why a creepy skull shape is instrumental for isolating a substance more so than something more boxy, and why that's somehow less "✨ aesthetic ✨" than such a simple shape.
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
Yeah, I didn't want to completely rule out that she iterated on an earlier framework, because the possibility does exist and it doesn't even render her own studies as fraudulent since that's normal for scientists. I just don't think it's concrete because sometimes Toby just does strange phrasing (see: the Seam example).
@teardropsadventure19
7 ай бұрын
Alphys' 17th entry was used in an older version of undertale instead of the DT extractor thing.
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
Is there footage of this? I played close to launch, and it wasn't there by the time I played in October 2015.
@mrmonkeytoes
2 ай бұрын
I kinda find it hilarious people think other people wrote part of the entries. Literally I change my capitalization randomly, or sometimes to convey Emotion. It’s not that deep guys. Also I wanna mention Sans CAN write normally, so it COULD be all Sans’ except that’s stupid. It’s all alphys.
@Ailaaaaaaa
7 ай бұрын
FNaF and it's consequences have been disastruous for the lore-heavy Indie game community
@jacquespaught
7 ай бұрын
Another very minor point is the fact that Gaster's confirmed entry is called "Entry number seventeen", whereas all of the other entries are "Entry number 1", "Entry number 2", etc.
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
That's actually a fantastic point, though. The number is spelled out.
@ninjoshday
7 ай бұрын
I'll bet the reason Gaster even got an entry seventeen was as a reference to Alphys's scrapped entry 17, since Gaster's whole deal in Undertale is "What if cut content was diagetic?"
@aimfulRenegade
7 ай бұрын
Well, the writing on the wall theory that this video is debunking said that the entry seventeen we find is the files is a recording of gaster dictating the entry, not the entry itself.
@WithASock
7 ай бұрын
@@aimfulRenegade true. wow that really adds to the idea that gaster's entry does just belongs to a whole different series of experiments.
@ZorusSerif
7 ай бұрын
That's because it's a recording it's being spoken
@noobfart
7 ай бұрын
counterpoint: you sound exactly like what a confident alphys would sound like.
@verity_amo
7 ай бұрын
this video was in fact created by alphys herself /j
@NicoTheCinderace
7 ай бұрын
@@verity_amo Trust nobody. Not even yourself.
@dylanzlol7293
7 ай бұрын
Au with assertive alphys, with her standing upright and all that
@Deflamed_Sphere
7 ай бұрын
@@dylanzlol7293 yeah i need a confident alphys back i mean her past self did so i gotta see it again atleast
i love how this entire debunk can be summarized as "this is wrong because there was already a sensible and simple explanation of it in the main text of the work" lol. kinda reminds me of jojo fandom and the araki forget stuff somehow.
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
Yeah, I think there's this desire in a lot of fandoms (not just Undertale) for big, complex plot twists and lore reveals, but sometimes that's just not good storytelling. And I say that as a Kingdom Hearts fan. :P I know big, weird plot twists all too well.
@remixtheidiot5771
7 ай бұрын
@@Dorked yeah. i'm all for theories, speculation, overanalysis and whatnot, but not where it's unnecessary and could be borderline misinformation. a lot of people nowadays seem to believe theory and fan-canon are synonyms so people make and read those kinds of stuff with that in mind. i'd rather just read and/or write fanfic if that was the case...
@Ziel23987
7 ай бұрын
@@DorkedYES, THANK YOU!
@kau_for_thee_8567
7 ай бұрын
Alphys comes up with one of the most prominent themes in the game(determination,or at least the extracted stuff of it) and Flowey who's responsible for freeing all monsters and yet she's treated dirty smh.
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
People really seem to want every indie game to have some deep hidden twist a-la FNAF lore or something when Toby's writing is generally more straightforward. We have the Spamton Sweepstakes stuff, but that mostly just builds on stuff we already had to work with and is fun supplementary material and characterization.
@resumethyvideo7631
7 ай бұрын
It’s cause we find her boring, yes there are *SOME* of us who hate her but they are annoying gremlins who can’t comprehend morality. No I hate her because I find nothing enjoyable or interesting about her character and the interesting things that are there feel like they have been forced upon her character (no this is not to say they don’t “fit” or don’t make sense for her character, they do but they are concepts that are applied, attatched to and sometimes created by a character I find to be incredibly boring). This along with the fact she created my favorite characters just makes it worse, she’s *S O* important and undertale wants me to care about this “important” character she’s boring in the game and any fancontent she’s in is only interesting due to how she affects other characters. Edit: about chara cause I’ve seen some people bring em up WE DONT THINK THEY ARE EVIL (canonically) WE USE THEM AS A VILLAIN BECAUSE THEY ARE A VOID-MOUTHED-EVIL-SPEAKING-EVIL-LOOKING-DEMON-CHILD-FROM-THE-DEPTHS-OF-HELL. “Why not use flowey” he’s weaker, he’s a joke in the fandom (often getting tortured and overpowered by everyone’s favorite skeleton) and he gets humiliated and killed off in the genocide route (the route that has chara’s big villain moments) in a cutscene you don’t control (making a lot of people interpret the moment as chara taking control and turning their previous friend into powder thus making them more evil). So yeah show me a villain I can use that isn’t my favorite humanity-hating enby demon 👁👁
@Lagw1020
7 ай бұрын
You used parenthesis wrong 🤓 lemme nerd out. So so, parenthesis are used for many reasons, but the ones we commonly use is for additional context. We use them to add on to our sentences, but the sentence can still work without them. Let's use this: The dog is jumping. If you wanted to add more context, you'd use parenthesis like this: The dog (whom I adopted 3 years ago) is jumping. Notice how the sentence itself wasn't changed? For you, the sentence should actually be "...in the game. Determination (or at least extracted stuff of it) and Flowey, who's responsible for..."
@kau_for_thee_8567
7 ай бұрын
@@Lagw1020 Thanks.
@MoRPho151
7 ай бұрын
@@resumethyvideo7631 Honestly, you can dislike Alphys if you want... That is not what is really been discussed here.. Is just that disliking a character is not the same as erasing the contributions the character made to the plot just because I hate them/dislike them. Is immature and goes against what the person that created the game you like wanted with that character. I dunno but I respect what Toby intended with his characters because I like the game he did.
@mushpuffs
7 ай бұрын
I remember when my brother believed in the "sans wrote some of the true lab entries" and one of the first all-lowercase messages is about working on mettaton's body and we laughed really hard
@kilimachevsk623
7 ай бұрын
It's just ABSURD to me, how much attention that video got and the amount of people praising it- when it misses so, so many obvious things. It claims that Asgore hasn't gone in his home since Chara died, when the ink in his journal is still almost wet. It claims that Alphys ONLY writes in lowercase, when there's that note right outside the True Lab. It claims that Gaster wrote the entries, when Alphys plainly says that she's the one that named Determination. They were SO tunnel-visioned on making a Fun Gaster Theory, that they completely ignored everything that disproved it. There's footage of them from when they were playing through the game, making note of the wording on the note in Asgore's kitchen, swapping between a simultaneous playthrough of pacifist and genocide they were doing, to come to the conclusion that Asgore hasn't been in his own home, adding it to a big list of evidence and notes they were gathering. They were clearly putting in a lot of work... but missed something as obvious as the journal in Asgore's room. And that's just the surface level stuff. There's the other ways it completely falls apart if you think more about it. Like, people remember Gaster's work. The CORE is still there and still functioning, there are people working there. So if Gaster found a way to cure monsters who had fallen down... why would anyone EVER consent to let their Fallen Down family members be used for Alphys's experiments, where she wants to wait for them to die to get the SOULs?! Why would Asgore allow monsters to Fall Down at all, if there's a cure ready to go? Why would he needlessly let monsters like Rudy Holiday die? Why would you diminish Alphys to such a degree, by implying she's so stupid she can't even follow the simple directions of 'inject determination and wait?'
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
These are all fantastic observations! I think Rudy is a great example of why the immortality angle just doesn't really jive because, as you said, it opens way too many questions, and Gaster being forgotten was never confirmed and is even contradicted by the followers saying Asgore took a long time to replace him.
@tigerbear5845
7 ай бұрын
This, this, freaking this! I've been saying most of these things since the first video was released! (and more as I thought of more of the flaws!)
@snow-cheirus
7 ай бұрын
iirc, the dude made the argument that Alphys _wrote_ normally, but _typed_ in lowercase, and that the entries were electronic. But beyond that, I agree with these criticisms.
@tornado4376
6 ай бұрын
confirmation bias lol
@anbon4985
5 ай бұрын
I mean its just a theory you dont have to get mad about it
@eldricshadowchaser5454
7 ай бұрын
At best, you can MAYBE connect Gaster to the blueprints for the DT extractor. If you follow that theory it has the interesting implication that Gaster might have been looking into similar stuff before he fell, but of course never got the opportunity to do any experiments on the subject himself.
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
Given what we know about dark worlds, that's entirely possible, too, and not something I want to rule out entirely.
@tobiasbayer4866
7 ай бұрын
@@Dorked Wow I had never thought about it like that before. Yeah, in order to open a dark world you need Determination, which Monsters in Undertale famously lack. So If Gaster had researched them it would make sense hed also be looking Into ways to get Determination. Good point! Makes you wonder If the only reason Deltarune Gaster was succesful as opposed to Undertale Gaster is because monsters can naturally have more DT in the Deltarune universe.
@kingflynxi9420
7 ай бұрын
@tobiasbayer4866 I think possibly it's due to the lack of Core in the Deltarune universe, he didn't fall in. My head canon is that the Undertale universe is what happens when the 1st fallen child is the older sibling to Asriel, and the Deltarune universe is what happens when the 1st fallen child is the younger sibling. Perhaps they managed to leave the underground far earlier, and Kris' ability to separate their souls from their body is related to how they escaped the underground with Asriel, but that's a reach since the underground isn't mentioned, and it's heavily implied that Kris grew up on the surface with everyone.
@omniscientomnipresent5500
7 ай бұрын
No doubt the blueprints were made by Gaster, when Flowey uses it as a second head he does a laser like a Gaster blaster and in the Asriel fight as an attack called hyper goner, goner being in the names of characters appearing with fun value. It doesn't look like any of Alphys or Mettaton attack and there would be no reason for the extractor to be able to attack if it was made entirely by Alphys since she only accidentally ever harm you troughout the game. As for Mettaton attacking you then, since some monsters like Undyne spars and she wanted Mettaton to look as much like a killer robot than possible she may have put his attacks, but even then it's because Mettaton goes off track.
@spindash64
6 ай бұрын
My personal theory is that Gaster was looking into Time Travel and potentially interdimensional travel. Perhaps even theorizing that a vessel with enough of some bizarre quality could send information from the future to its past self. Part of me wonders if he's somehow connected to not just Deltarune vessel shenanigans, but Undertale's as well... Through some mishap or another, he gets sent by his machine to nowhere specific, thus sending him nearly _everywhere._ And by some other fluke of fate, the crude schematics for a soul harvesting machine ended up in the hands of Alphys, who then put these theories into practical use TLDR: Gaster was a mad scientist, Alphys was a mad engineer. Well, less mad, more sad
@Awesomeness-iz3dh
7 ай бұрын
11:58 I just realized Undyne is the only character in this scene who is visibly struggling against Flowey with any success. Every little detail in this game is just so full of character.
@rafsandomierz5313
7 ай бұрын
After all she suplexed a boulder because she can.
@Tam-Ezrac
7 ай бұрын
Question! How do you feel about the “entry seventeen is a video recording” portion of the OG video? Since it and “the golden flowers” are, imo, are the most interesting bits of the video, tho the latter would need a bit of restructuring to make sense again.
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
The recording angle is very valid and possible. As for the flower stuff, my biggest gripe is that buttercups are an entirely different flower and are known to be poisonous, and so Asgore drinking golden flower tea further cements that they are different.
@1BeautifulDuck
7 ай бұрын
Alphys, the most lore significant character in Undertale, being sidlined for a character with zero presence in Undertale.
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
I think it really is a combination of people finding Alphys annoying, being drawn into the mystery of Gaster, and like... as I said in another comment, this desire for simple questions to have convoluted answers because of the precedent set by things like FNAF theories.
@monopurple
7 ай бұрын
a complicated messy and realistic character with lots of screentime being overshadowed by a man that DOESN'T EVEN EXIST and only appears during very specific events is absolutely insane its even more absurd how the ut fandom hates alphys for her mistakes and reduces her character only to her flaws but has no problem with fanon interpretations of gaster being evil and cruel. the double standards
@KingOfDarknessAndEvil
7 ай бұрын
There's so much buildup and hype around gaster for the past decade so people desperately want him to be as important as he is to them. Once he finally shows up in deltarune and does whatever weird shit he's gonna do, I think people will be satisfied and chill out with stuff like this
@BelBelle468
7 ай бұрын
Ppl wanting more convoluted BS stories over more simple stories is something I’ll never get. FNAF’s story makes little sense and lost the plot. Same as KH’s. KH’s story isn’t too hard to understand but when you write a story vaguely, with holes you fill in later, it becomes overly complicated. Ppl prefer potential and mystery to just regular stories. It kinda sucks
@Anno_AD
7 ай бұрын
"The most lore significant character in Undertale" Stop tripping. That's obviously Asriel/Flowey. He's literally the cause of everything that happens in multiple ways. Not like Alphys isn't important, but she's not as important as Asriel is.
@bigmaxethanschannel1428
7 ай бұрын
Dorked: The Fandom's Reality Check
@SniperMonkey146
7 ай бұрын
Love how very consistent Gaster’s way of speaking is, it basically assures what is and isn’t his writing. I’ll say the mysterious Valentines message in the newsletter from somebody unnamed that people have obviously suspected to be gaster, likely isn’t him. It doesn’t match with the way he speaks in every single instance. There’s some other video on the whole thing that just kinda confirmed my ideas more valid so that’s a thing.
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
The thing about the "Gaster" valentine is that the Japanese version is not localized the same way that his other speech has been in the past, which tells me that it might be a red herring or something else is going on. It's very peculiar.
@Crackedcripple
7 ай бұрын
Nah out of all people JaruJaruJ had a great video and a set of comments describing why exactly it’s most definitely Gaster I know people have their gripes with him but he actually made some really solid points this time that the Japanese translation not being localized in the correct way doesn’t really mean much
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
@@Crackedcripple I think at the very least, there's a strong likelihood it's related to Gaster. I just find Toby's usually very deliberate w/ the localization teams, so it's a case of me not wanting to assume too much, so I decided not to include that specific valentine to err on the side of caution.
@SniperMonkey146
7 ай бұрын
@@Crackedcripple man I read your name as Cracked Nipple I’m dying 😭
@Crackedcripple
7 ай бұрын
@@Dorked yeah that’s reasonable, but for me when you check out the legends of localization book that has a secret message in Wingdings on the CORE page from Gaster the style it’s written in is very similar to the valentine and it has led me to believe it’s probably him. “IF YOU HAVE PIRATED THIS BOOK I UNDERSTAND I CANNOT LEGALLY CONDONE IT BUT I UNDERSTAND JUST TRY TO MAKE THE WORLD AROUND YOU A SLIGHTLY NICER PLACE I GUESS BUT IF I MEET YOU SOMEDAY I MIGHT ASK YOU TO EMBARRASS YOURSELF OR BUY ME FREE PIZZA UNTIL WE'RE COOL" -Gaster’s secret message in the book, he’s a goofy guy after all
@Theriverdraws
7 ай бұрын
It's so crazy people keep saying Gaster wrote those entries, WHEN ALPHYS SAID SHE WAS THE ONE DOING THE EXPERIMENTS. It makes no sense to me. Gaster has ONE ENTRY, and it's a SECRET ONE, just like EVERYTHING RELATED TO HIM IS. What would be the consistency of everything gaster related being secret except these entries??? That Alphys ADMITTED TO MAKING, it's such an important part to her character, and people taking that from her just to push that into Gaster (or even sans??) for no reason makes me so upset :(. I know it's fun to theorize, but let's not cost another character's lore for it.
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
Also, Entry Number 15 ends in a smiley face. o_o Alphys uses them a lot in her text messages, so it makes more sense for it to be her. Plus one of the lowercase entries is a direct followup to a proper grammar entry.
@Bingo_TheShibaInu
7 ай бұрын
I agree lol
@ninjoshday
7 ай бұрын
@@Dorked"Dark. Darker. Yet Darker : )"
@TweedleDeem
7 ай бұрын
People don't claim Alphys didn't do the experiments, they claim that they both conducted the same experiment. That's the whole point of the theory.
@LiMe251
7 ай бұрын
Not to mention Alphys has her own 17th entry.
@TheWifiRouter
7 ай бұрын
one of my biggest gripes is that the undertale fandom will attribute some of the entries to gaster and then not blame him for what he did to the amalgams, instead deciding that it’s all alphys fault for some reason. thanks for clearing everything up that it was only alphys for the people who do think it was anyone else.
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
Yeah, that too! People always blame Alphys for the worst of it and then act like Gaster was a saint.
@machandri
7 ай бұрын
@@Dorkedit's quite ironic that the guy that is associated with the number of the devil is viewed as a saint
@oranjaglad8648
7 ай бұрын
It’s like this fandom blaming Chara for the genocide route when it’s clearly the player’s fault for the events there.
@Deflamed_Sphere
7 ай бұрын
@@oranjaglad8648 yeah but then they would say why not frisk since its a self insert or something
@orihiho2978
7 ай бұрын
ok to be fair most theories attribute the amalgams to Alphys and gerson/dogamy and dogaressa to gaster
@marinagaleotti
7 ай бұрын
I dont get how someone could think that the entries were wrote by gaster. This misconception is interesting... VERY VERY INTERESTING
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
Tbh, it's because people take the grammatical shifts to mean two writers when Alphys is shown to write differently depending on her mood in the actual game.
@anbon4985
7 ай бұрын
@@Dorkedi mean the valentine cards were released after the theory and deltarune is a whole other universe so i get why some people thought this
@chromaticroses
7 ай бұрын
us alphys fans owe dorked our life tbh 🙏🙏🙏
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
The amount of hate Alphys gets is very disheartening. Somebody has to defend her honor. Huff!
@Astro-ky8bn
7 ай бұрын
Alphys fan here dorked tysm
@AloeHalo
7 ай бұрын
Mew Mew fan here, still thank you because alphys is Mew's number 1 fan
@NicoTheCinderace
7 ай бұрын
@@Dorked Alphys fan here! And Mew Mew fan.
@snakeswithhats1913
7 ай бұрын
@@DorkedI also hate her character frankly, but at least it’s because of personal taste and not because I lack media literacy and try to force Gaster into anything remotely vague.
@An_Account1
7 ай бұрын
The thing that really annoys me about Gaster writing the entries is that Deltarune will likely give us way more Gaster, while Alphys will likely play a much smaller role, so giving the DT experiments to Gaster will just be a footnote compared to what he did in Deltarune while Alphys would lose her main achievement.
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
I think there's also something interesting to be said about how Alphys is the successor to Gaster in UT and Gerson in DR.
@BelBelle468
7 ай бұрын
Yeah, plus with entry 17 being Gaster’s, it means there’s way more entries of his to explore. It’s exciting
@An_Account1
7 ай бұрын
@@Dorked That's true. This parallel could end up being important in Deltarune.
@An_Account1
7 ай бұрын
@@BelBelle468 Thank you for proving why it's more interesting for Gaster to not write the entries.
@mochasumi
7 ай бұрын
I feel like the fandom’s fervent desire to discredit Alphys and replace her with Gaster or even Sans (I remember seeing this a lot in fan content around 2016-2017- having Sans be involved in the true lab, only for him to completely overshadow Alphys) can also be attributed to misogyny. The fanbase doesn’t like that a female character is “annoying” and flawed in a way that isn’t quirky or cutesy and so they scramble to completely scrub her out of the picture. I’m expecting to get a lot of angry replies to this comment, because many people don’t like facing their own unconscious biases and how they affect their perceptions of the media they consume, but I really think that if Toby’s original intent of Alphys being male (as stated in the Undertale artbook) had gone through, she would be much more popular than she is now. Basically, I just think the way that some people dislike her so much that they would rather completely undercut her personal story and relevance to Undertale’s narrative to replace her with a male character that, at the time (and to a lesser extent now, still), had basically zero confirmed personality or character says a lot about how people treat female characters that don’t fit what they perceive to be acceptable for a female character. They’d rather have a blank slate, easy tumblr sexyman than a genuinely interesting and complex woman.
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
Yeah, the thing is, *if* misogyny is a factor, I think it's probably internalized or unconscious? I definitely am not in this to accuse Sock Muppet of it, for instance, because I'd rather assume good faith (even if I am frustrated with how he discussed Alphys). But I have seen other fans experience more vitriolic behavior toward Alphys from other UT fans in the past that does call these things into question. That being said, I think some of the harsher comments here are kinda just misinterpreting some of my statements and intentions, and to an extent I probably walked into that by beginning the video with a comically exaggerated sigh that was meant to be hyperbolic but has been misinterpreted. It's not something I can fix now, but eh. Comments are good for the youtube algorithm. :P Plus, KZitem comments aren't typically known for good faith discussions.
@Wolfcat22
7 ай бұрын
I think the far more likely explanation is that people are simply obsessed with the mysteries surrounding Gaster and the time he spent in the True Lab as the Royal Scientist. It's not like people are ascribing these negative character traits to her without any basis whatsoever. She's known to be a liar, and some of the True Lab's entries makes her scientific reasoning seem shaky at best - "nothing is happening. i don't know what to do. i'll just keep injecting everything with "determination."" Regardless, just because people are speculating that she may not be fully responsible for this one thing despite all of her other achievements doesn't mean they are misogynistic.
@mochasumi
7 ай бұрын
@@Wolfcat22 That’s fair assessment! I’m more just kind of lining the points of this video up with how I’ve seen people treat female characters in media as a whole, beyond just Undertale and Deltarune, and putting my thoughts into words surrounding Alphys. She’s been one of my favorite Undertale characters from the start, flaws and all- so it’s more just this as it falls into place with other ways I’ve seen people treat her in fanworks and discussions. My comment wasn’t meant to be accusatory in any way, so much as just an observation of a potential unconscious bias. I hope that makes sense.
@ΣτέφανοςΔημόπουλος-η7τ
9 күн бұрын
@@mochasumi idk man , i personally think that alphys was annoying not in personality but annoying in that...she paused the game non stop with her messages which were totally vapid too , like anime reviews and all . if she didnt do that i really dont think people would be annoying . if it were misogyny would people love UNDYNE so much? the super strong macho type insane warrior ?? or suzie in deltarune ? or queen ? etc etc . also the appeal of the gaster mystery is what makes people cling to him so much . like if he had the same mysterh but instead of the former scientist he was like...idk asgore's former brother in arms people would say ''uh look at *gerson* taking all the credit ! i mean hes a turtle , how would he even move to be a wariior? a humanoid skeleton makes much more sense-'' and you get the picture . i dont want to be accusaroty either , but i feel like a lot of people kinda rush to ad hominems ''its misogyny , its racism , its homophobia'' etc without really thinking about...the actual characters and writing you know? like , ive seen people really annoyed with gay characters but ive never seen anyone annoyed with captain holt from brooklyn 99 if you know that show , and its not like his gayness is subtle , there are whole episodes about it
@Mr_Magolor
6 ай бұрын
I think what also doesn't help is that so many people believe it's a canon fact that everyone forgot Gaster existed, even though that is never directly stated by any of his followers. Yes, there is Goner Kid with his whole "Have you ever thought about a world where you don't exist" but that primarily applies to him and the other Followers not specifically Gaster himself. He was erased from/shattered out of reality but it is never said that the memory of him was erased too. This can be used as an easy excuse to say "well he actually did all that but people forgot so Alphys thought she was responsible instead" when there is, again, no actual evidence of this in the main story. People need to remind themselves what was actually stated in the game and what is headcanon/fanon.
@Dorked
6 ай бұрын
Gaster is very much a case where people accept popular fan interpretations as canon without looking into things more deeply.
@shortyfizlo.
6 ай бұрын
There is actually evidence to back up Gaster's memory fading but not due to the time and space shatter it just due to time. in the core Wiki Papyrus says nobody knows where the ice blocks go. Undyne recalls and remembers that they go to Hotland, but only due to Alphys telling her. and alphys would be the only one aside from asgore and maybe other dog enemies (like the one throwing the ice) and other old monsters would remember the cores begining which WE KNOW gaster made. Newer monsters may know of the core but don't even know the basics as of why its cooled and how. This is evidence of knowledge among monsters simply being lost unless said knowledge was stashed somewhere. he doesn't need to be shattered to be forgotten but having been certainly helped speed the process. also just because 1 person discovers a thing about the world, doesn't mean the person who discovered it second is any lesser and the base premise of that is stupid. You still have to understand the science you're performing in order to evolve and forward it and we have no proof that gasters experiments (if even there) was were fruitful
@Minefan200
6 ай бұрын
@@shortyfizlo. Papyrus has never gone to Hotland nor does he particularly enjoy the place. Which can explain why he doesn't know where the ice goes. And Alphys knows because she is directly responsible for maintaining it, as the Royal Scientist. People not knowing how the CORE works can also be chalked up to it not being a particularly interesting subject. Only that it gives electricity.
@alliova
7 ай бұрын
people want to see gaster everywhere so bad. the way i see it the point is that he is in the background, that he is hard to find, like a legend of sorts
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
Gaster's mystery seems like it'll be resolved in Deltarune, since I personally figure all the Gaster teasing was just to set up Toby's next project.
@GoodOlJenkinsYT
6 ай бұрын
@@Dorked I believe this too
@retexcrafted
7 ай бұрын
If gaster did write any of the entrys i feel like at the end of the true lab she would have mentioned it at the end becuase she you know wants to tell the whole truth if they were hiding it that does really mesh. Plus i would like to mention entry 17 is completely different to the others becuase gaster wrote it if gaster wrote them they would be far more similar to entry 17. I get why people want to put gaster in the true lab but it Frankly doesnt add anything to him and it just hurts alpheys character. There is no reason for toby to have made them actually gaster
@Dorked
7 ай бұрын
Yeah, like... we only see one example of an entry by Gaster and it's characterized so differently from all the others (including Alphys' own entry number 17). The characterization there matches Deltarune and the twitter takeovers, and frankly it seems like Gaster's experiments were tackling something else entirely.
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