heroes lost or got knocked out a whole lot more in the bronze age
@SonofCapwolf
Ай бұрын
I'd be hard pressed to name a Silver Age issue from Marvel where the hero isn't defeated halfway in.
@markshulusky6680
Ай бұрын
To see a great mysterious character absolutely wrecked/destroyed/turned to shit, check out The Black Lama in Iron Man, original series. He debuted in ish 53, returned in 71 for a long story that ended with his aforementioned trasition to shit in issues 80 & 81. I loved this character and then the same writer that created him, Gary Friedrich, gave him a bogus, bullshit transformation that made no sense.
@SonofCapwolf
Ай бұрын
The whole story was a cop-out. "War of the Supervillains" or "War of 5 Bad Guys" would be more accurate. Black Llama never ever appeared again, and it's saying something that even Kurt Busiek didn't feel the need to drag him out to boast about the fact he remembers Black Llama. I will say in Gary Friedrich's defense, and I say this from the bottom of my heart, it was Mike Friedrich. And your boi Steve Englehart was apparently the (uncredited) writer of the end of it. Listed it on his website and everything.
@aldinbaroza9640
Ай бұрын
Wasn't the arm gizmo tracker thing just a ploy so Jackal could get a DNA sample of Peter? That would make it seem like Conway had his whole story planned out in advance. But he probably had Jackal later say he got Peter's sample the same time he got Gwen's. Oh well.
@SonofCapwolf
Ай бұрын
In these stories, I would assume it means he got a sample when he had Peter unconscious at the start of this one. He had Peter knocked out in a lab, perfect opportunity. You know, it would work fantastic as a misdirect to keep Peter off the scent, to have put this on him and this comically silly "lead me to Spider-Man" scheme... but Gerry Conway has said all of this was on the fly. He knew who Jackal was going to be but anything involving the clones or Gwen were never planned. The Gwen clone only came into existence because Marvel were still getting bags of letters demanding Gwen's return so Stan told Gerry to just bring her back somehow and so we got a clone (which he later gleefully retcons away a decade later, and then retconned Carrion and kept retconning all the clones away as being actors). Later, in the 90s, we learn Miles Warren had made at least one Peter Parker clone by this point, so he supposedly had a sample already.
@aldinbaroza9640
Ай бұрын
Yeah, all of Marvel's writers in the 70s were making it up as they went along. They were inventing on the fly these types of story arcs that we take for granted now.
@SonofCapwolf
Ай бұрын
I think there was far less expectation on them back then and so someone like Conway could get away with utter gibberish like "college professor perfects cloning" and as long as the story had enjoyable parts then it didn't matter much. Now, it'd be leaked early and people on Twitter and Reddit would be mocking it and Marvel would be second-guessing themselves and they'd pressure the writer into changing things or doing a U-turn and so then it'd end up a bigger disaster than this which was a story that Gerry Conway didn't care that much about in 1975.
@robert2430
Ай бұрын
Carrion > Jackal but Grizzly might beat them both
@SonofCapwolf
Ай бұрын
It's not fair on anyone if you bring Grizzly into the equation.
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