Thank you for your work! I have been feeling a huge pull to Rome and am struggling with it, especially with their claims of primacy in history and the fact that there is a RCC at every corner. I am currently reading your book "Anglican Catholicism: Unchanging Faith in a Changing World" and read the section on "The Roman Question". I wanted to ask if you had any expanded works on this or can you point out any works that may elaborate on their "The One True Church" and papal claims as being inconsistent with history/doctrine? I appreciate anything you send me! There is an ACC church near me which I hope to attend soon, but I am a current member of a church with my wife and children and have not made any steps to leave (though I may try to split time so that I can be in communion with a church that affirms real presence).
@Warwickensis
2 ай бұрын
There is a rather nice little book called "Two Paths" by Michael Whelton which is a good read and examines the situation quite critically. I wonder if that might help.
@Warwickensis
2 ай бұрын
There is also this: www.lulu.com/shop/fr-jonathan-munn-oblosb/the-meaning-of-anglican-catholicism/ebook/product-w8gd4d.html?q=Meaning+of+Anglican+Catholicism+&page=1&pageSize=4
@TheRealIsildursBane
2 ай бұрын
@@Warwickensis thank you father!
@Warwickensis
2 ай бұрын
@@TheRealIsildursBane my pleasure. The key thing is that there is a Primacy of Rome but, as St Augustine points out, it is a primacy of honour, not a primacy of authority. As Anglican Catholics, we can happily subscribe to the Bishop of Rome being the first among equals but we stand with the Orthodox, the Gallicans and the Conciliarists when we say that the authority of the Councils is greater than the authority of the Pope.
@WayneDrake-uk1gg
2 ай бұрын
FWIW, not to be an "anti-apologist" for the RC faith, but I can tell you as a somewhat disillusioned insider that our Church--especially its outspoken apologists--tends to oversell papal supremacy and the real presence. For one, no American Catholic really believes in either of those things. Sure, we babble endlessly about them to outsiders, but for the most part, we are Catholics because we see membership in the "one true Church" as a quick and easy free ticket to Heaven
@PadiZH
2 ай бұрын
Thank you Father Jonathan! I was just laughing when you said one doesn't leave the church because it is happy clappy😂 well, but to be honest all those happy clapping churches (even if they think to be the truth church and have a leader who obviously doesn't know in what direction) have lost their orthodoxy somehow. If Christ is not the center of our worship and liturgy anymore we seem to fall into a false worldliness. Instead of giving him reverence we give it to our needs and desires. The Anglican Catholic Church is doing it in a brilliant way.=Worshipping our Lord in the beauty and holiness he deserves and pointing our thoughts and hearts with this reverence heavenwards. BTW: Just got your book "Whom seek ye"😊 Regards from Switzerland Patrick
@Warwickensis
2 ай бұрын
Absolutely! I was thinking of some musical atrocities that set good, sound hymns to dreadful music such as "Gracious Spirit, Holy Ghost" or "O Jesus I have promised." There was one dreadful song which just seemed to repeat "Isn't He beautiful? Beautiful, isn't he?" A certain allusion to orthodoxy there but really pure mawkish sentiment. As you rightly say, the majority of happy-clappy music is largely heretical and to be avoided.
@Warwickensis
2 ай бұрын
I hope you like Whom Seek Ye? It makes a great fly-swat.
@PadiZH
2 ай бұрын
@@Warwickensis I know this music is horrible. And also the liturgy to it. Will let you know about "whom seek ye". Btw: I can send you yesterday's mass from a parish I know in Austria. It gave me nausea 🤣
@WayneDrake-uk1gg
2 ай бұрын
One thing I slowly learned as a math major is that you can reconcile Anything unless there's a direct X and not X propositional contradiction. And even then, it's usually very possible to nuance X between the two systems so that the impasse is lifted. My hunch is that a great synthesis will be Classical Thomism and Process and Liberation theologies. Naturally, they will bring back the burning stake to deal with the genius who figures out how to do this, but 500 years later he will be commemorated as a Saint and Doctor of the Church
@Warwickensis
2 ай бұрын
Indeed. The trouble is that theological propositions are very seldom expressed as exact contraries. This leaves much room for the Hegelian thesis-anithesis-synthesis process to produce philosophical fruit. The trouble is that philosophical fruit is not always theological fruit. There are already movements to produce a Process/Liberation Theological Thomism. To my eyes it looks much like other Post-Modern theologies - denying objectivity and logic.
@WayneDrake-uk1gg
2 ай бұрын
@@Warwickensis postmodernism certainly gets a bad rap in Christianity. Even extreme universalists like David Bentley Hart are willing to reserve a spot in Hell for anyone who dares to be a postmodern theologian. But is the vitriol truly warranted? Any time we try to put God into a clean, tidy, prososiitional box, we're already wrong, right? Just ask our poor friends Arias, Nestorius, Abelard, et al
@Warwickensis
2 ай бұрын
@@WayneDrake-uk1gg Arius, Nestorius et al are no friends of Christianity and I certainly distance myself from their heresies. Postmodernism gets a bad rap because it is desperately wrong. It produces confusion where we know that God is not a god of confusion. While God does transcend our ideas and thoughts, He clearly has given us objectivity in the mystery of the Incarnation. I am fully with Prof Edward Feser St Thomas Aquinas, St Anselm, St John Damascene, the Oecumenical Councils, St Augustine and St Irenaeus of Lyons that there is one orthodox faith and not a collection of narratives which are tailored to the individual rather than the individual submitting to God as He has chosen to reveal Himself through Scripture and Tradition.
@WayneDrake-uk1gg
2 ай бұрын
@@Warwickensis I would guess that if an Inquisitor were to interrogate my congregation one by one, he would find pretty much all of us hold to a pretty obvious heresy (eg, denial of the mass, arianism, nestorianism, modalism, eutychianism, gnosticism, pelagianism, etc). If I managed to escape the break and wheel, it would only be because as a bratty little wiseguy know-it-all, I've studied a general survey of historical theology, and know many of the buzz words I should affirm or deny (and I would be very careful to avoid mentioning any fondness for the witty/ironic writing style of postmodernism or the mystic spiritual depth of Teilhard). Still, though, if they were clever about how they pried into my beliefs, and were able to look beyond the buzz words, they would almost certainly discover I'm guilty of heresies I never would've suspected. For example, there are probably questions they could ask that would show, for example, that I'm an unwitting "functional monothelite", even though I know to profess a divine will and a human will rather than a divine and human will, or an unwitting "functional nestorian", even though I know to profess one person with two natures rather than one being in two persons. Of course, this thought experiment is moot, anyway. America is a country founded on a love for heresy, rebellion, and big guns--we wouldn't let an Inquisitor anywhere near us
@Warwickensis
2 ай бұрын
@@WayneDrake-uk1gg the point here is not about the failings of our *personal* faith but rather the willingness to accept correction when confronted by the Faith of the Fathers. I am sure that I would not pass the test of orthodoxy under the Inquisition but I would work at, pray about and strive that, when presented with my error in the light of Catholic teaching, I would accept it and grow. I am no revolutionary!
@WayneDrake-uk1gg
2 ай бұрын
Also, sorry to bother you with these questions (but on the plus side, comments help the algorithm for a YT channel), but how much of a "big deal" is this Old Catholic/Dutch Bishop ordination lineage within Anglicanism? I've only recently begun studying the tradition in depth, but my preconceived notion was that the general British consensus would've been 'We've always had the best trained and most theologically sound clergy, and consider the Roman rejection of our orders a clear instance of their jealousy and superstition"
@Warwickensis
2 ай бұрын
I think stressing our Old Catholic lineage isn't so much a defense against Apostolicae Curae as Saepius Officio does a great job of that even in the face of Cardinal Vaughan's rather weak attempt at vindicating the bull, but rather demonstrates that we have a very clear idea of the Catholic priesthood which is not held by many others within the protestant Anglican umbrella such as the (sometimes not-so-) closet Presbyterians and liberals. It's a belt and braces approach which tries to reassure many who still adhere to the null and invalid bull that their objections have already been circumvented.
Пікірлер: 18