In capitalist system slave workers compete against each other while it's the capitalist that make profit.
@exploringantinatalismpodcast
7 ай бұрын
Thank you so much Tejas, I am moved beyond words by what you said about me, my dear friend, and I am much humbled. I promise you, I'll never give up, I'll keep fighting, and I want you to know that even during the worst of times in this community, it has been the support and solidarity of friends like you that have kept me going. I'm so proud of the amazing work you are doing, Tejas - the unborn sure are lucky to have you in their corner. I hope we do meet someday! But near or far, and in the words of the great Derived Energy, 'Our Small but Proud Flame', is worth keeping alight - and nothing gives me more strength than knowing that you, me, and a few select others, won't let that fire burn out
@WackyConundrum
7 ай бұрын
Would you press the red button? Should one press the red button?
@thecosmicantinatalist
7 ай бұрын
Something I am always trying to figure out. Would you?
@WackyConundrum
7 ай бұрын
@@thecosmicantinatalist No. It would be immoral to sacrifice the innocent.
@BrotherMarkus
7 ай бұрын
@@WackyConundrumI am in agreement with you. I would also not push the red button and I think it's immoral to do so.
@LawrenceAnton
7 ай бұрын
Interesting, that in-person meeting looks to be part of a philosophy group that meet up and this time they are discuss Antinatalism, gutted it’s on the other side of the world to me 😂
@WackyConundrum
7 ай бұрын
I don't think you appreciate Benatar's response to the red button thought experiment. His response was directed at the utilitarian aspect of it, and in particular, at the very assumption behind it. And yes, it is valid to attack the assumption. In this case, the assumption is totally unrealistic and totally impossible. That is, the counterfactual situation _will never happen_ because one will never be sure what the consequences of the red button would be. So, it is perfectly rational to dismiss the thought experiment altogether. After all, ethics is about behavior, about what we should do. And the red button thought experiment does not and cannot in any way inform our decisions regarding our actions. The yes/no answer changes absolutely nothing. At least in the trolley problem we have a simplified situtation that can be transferred to real-world circumstances. But the red button cannot.
@thecosmicantinatalist
7 ай бұрын
Hmm ... yes ... If we take the practical limitations pointed by Benatar out, it is probably just another way of saying that it would have been better to never have been.
@WackyConundrum
7 ай бұрын
@@thecosmicantinatalist No, it's not just another way of saying that it would have been better to never have been. It is a straightforward way to say two things: 1) the red button thought experiment is invalid, because the situation can never take place, nor a situation relevantly similar can take place, and 2) in such a world, the risk of a mistake would be too great to push the button.
@thecosmicantinatalist
7 ай бұрын
Is it correct to invalidate a thought experiment on the grounds that it can never happen? Two examples, Einstein's experiment of riding a wave of light and Schrodinger's cat Source: www.britannica.com/science/Gedankenexperiment en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat
@WackyConundrum
7 ай бұрын
@@thecosmicantinatalist When it comes to ethics, I believe so. It is precisely because ethics is about decisions and actions. It will never be the case, when one is placed in a situation where there is a red button and one has 100% certainty what a red button would do. If so, then what even is the purpose of the thought experiment? It brings nothing to ethics. But yes, the second objection stands independently: even if there was a red button, one would not be justified in pressing it precisely because one cannot be 100% certain what the consequences would be, but the risk of failure is astronomical.
@EFIlist-Anti-NATALIST
7 ай бұрын
@@WackyConundrum are you antinatalist?
@NiaEsto
7 ай бұрын
Wow electric! Benatar is refining these thoughts more and more. I do think the red button will be a unique and robust thought experiment. In some ways, our actions historically are creating the framework of the red button at the very least. Nature can be thought of as its own red button through our actions also.
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