What is your response to Aphra Behn’s poem ‘To the Fair Clarinda’. Did it surprise you in any way?
@reveranttangent1771
3 жыл бұрын
What surprises me, is that it sounds like a lesbian poem and got past the censors.
@DrOctaviaCox
3 жыл бұрын
To some extent, literature of the period that celebrated sexual freedom was seen as aligned with Royalists and a celebration of the Restoration (and as flying in the face of the Puritans who had dominated public life in the Interregnum / Commonwealth period). If you want some eye-watering examples, try John Wilmot, Earl of Rochester's poems - they're quite something!
@reveranttangent1771
3 жыл бұрын
@@DrOctaviaCox I'm afraid I'll stick with my bls for that, but thank you.
@HRJohn1944
3 жыл бұрын
Could you recommend an edition of Behn's poetry/plays, together with a critical introduction (also, where would they be available)
@ogg5949
3 жыл бұрын
I've never heard of Aphra Behn and am very surprised to find a female writer accepted in those days. The poem seems to be very applicable to today's western society; it seems to be discussing gender fluidity and pronoun usage which is such a topic of debate right now. Is Mrs B stating that she is not sure whether Clarinda prefers to be referred to as a she/her or he/him? Or is Mrs B having problems determining her own desires regarding who she wants Clarinda to be in the relationship- does she want Clarinda to play more of a female/bottom role while she plays a more male/top role or vice versa? I have heard that back then society did not even have a word that meant homosexuality and that the church punished a man who took on the "female" role during male/male intercourse because as a man he shouldn't be in that role. Lesbians flew under the radar because there was technically no penetration with body parts. Don't know if that is correct information.
@peteinuk
3 жыл бұрын
I am part of a working group (A is for Aphra) attempting to get a memorial built for Aphra Behn in Canterbury - where she was born - most timely post!
@bonnieschofield2947
3 жыл бұрын
Wonderful video AND love your blouse!
@DrOctaviaCox
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you! - very kind of you to say.
@julieontology7214
3 жыл бұрын
Fascinating!! There are so many wonderful writers everywhere, from every time period. I appreciate insights into Aphra Behn's work and some of her thoughts and experiences. I really appreciate that you share your knowledge with us in this very accessible venue.
@DrOctaviaCox
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you. It's my pleasure. I love sharing some of my thoughts on these wonderful writers!
@ActualOphelia
3 жыл бұрын
Loved the video!
@DrOctaviaCox
3 жыл бұрын
Excellent!
@Tevildo
3 жыл бұрын
I must confess to not having read this poem before - thank you for introducing us to it! It's refreshing to see a Restoration work that deals tastefully with sexual matters, without adopting the obvious, blatant, unsubtle - dare I say masculine? - techniques of the better-known playwrights of the time. I would interpret lines 7-8 in almost the opposite way to you (as a non-expert, of course) - because Clarinda possesses masculine qualities, the author is free to love her (Sexually? As more than a friend, at least), whereas if she was a stereotypical "fair maid", not only would their love be more "unnatural", she would not be as appealing to the author. "Crime" is another interesting term, especially as the author refers to herself as "Mrs B" - that is, she's married, and the crime would not merely be fornication, but adultery. While the image of a married woman with a female lover might not have been as shocking during the Restoration period (or, indeed, the 1920s) as it would be in the nineteenth century or today, it's still a very transgressive idea. I'm not sure if Behn's choice of "Alexis" as the name of the idealized swain is significant - the mythical Chloris had no androgynous qualities - but in Virgil's original, Alexis was pursued romantically by the (very male) shepherd Corydon, so, if it is significant, we have an indirect reference to male as well as female homosexuality in the poem, going along with the overall theme of gender confusion. On a technical point, the meter doesn't really work if Aphrodite is pronounced "correctly", with four syllables - however, it's perfect if it's pronounced with three, to rhyme with "hermaphrodite". Is there any evidence that this was a standard English pronounciation at the time? The name of Byron's hero has to be pronounced "Joo-an" rather than "Wahn" for that poem to work, after all - might this be a similar case?
@DrOctaviaCox
3 жыл бұрын
That's an ingenious point about the extra syllable in the final line, "The | Love | to | Herm | es, | Aph | rod | i | te | the | Friend" (11 syllables). As I understand it, the Greek pronunciation of Aphrodite has 4 syllables (as does the English pronunciation), so I think the line must be deliberately long. But what this extra syllable in the final line might connote is that the idea doesn't quite fit - that Aphrodite as "Friend" doesn't quite fit (and literally doesn't fit into the line) - which might make us doubt the claim being made here. A really fabulous observation, thank you.
@DrOctaviaCox
3 жыл бұрын
Yes, indeed - the point about Virgil's Alexis is interesting (see my comment above about Dryden's 17th century translation) - and does, as you suggest, bring in ideas of gender fluidity and adopting particular roles or codes in pastoral imagery. In this case perhaps we can see Alexis as the 'feminised' figure - in the Loeb translation, for instance, he is called "the fair Alexis" and "lovely boy", is associated with female nymphs and naiads, and the fairest fragrant flowers: "Come hither, lovely boy! See, for you the Nymphs bring lilies in heaped-up baskets; for you the fair Naiad, plucking pale violets and poppy heads, blends narcissus and sweet-scented fennel flower; then, twining them with cassia and other sweet herbs, sets off the delicate hyacinth with the golden marigold" (Virgil, With an English Translation by H. Rushton Fairclough; revised by G. P. Goold, 2 vols. (Harvard University Press, 2014), vol.1, pp.31-5).
@--enyo--
9 ай бұрын
According to the law then I don’t think it was adultery with another woman. Only if it was a woman with a man.
@sash3497
3 жыл бұрын
You’ve done a cracking job on this. Complex poem. I’ve never read any Aphra Behn before
@effie358
3 жыл бұрын
I had not heard of Aphra Behn before. Thank you Octavia for introducing us to bits of literature that have influenced history. It's interesting to find out how thought and society changed and the influence that writers have had on it.
@DrOctaviaCox
3 жыл бұрын
I completely agree - it's one of the reasons I love studying literature so much! It reveals such fundamental things about a society and/or an individual person (both of the author and reader too, even across centuries).
@mirandamom1346
3 жыл бұрын
I appreciate your ability to engage with sensitive issues like gender and class without hyperbole or outrage!
@simonestreeter1518
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for so matter-of-factly taking us back to the days when gender 'confusion' was fun! For me, this was the 80s and early 90s. I especially like your interpretation of the experience of feeling feminine when a woman is acting masculine, and then feeling masculine when said women is being more feminine. Bingo.
@katrand5357
3 жыл бұрын
It wasn't fun if you were caught
@simonestreeter1518
3 жыл бұрын
@@katrand5357 Caught? Not sure where you live or what you were doing, but "Rocky Horror Picture Show" and Hedwig and the Angry Inch and the androgyny craze in rock, from David Bowie to Annie Lennox, etc. etc. were hardly a big secret. We all partied to the Kinks 'Lola' and played it loudly within our parents' earshot.
@eva10210
3 жыл бұрын
My own (super unprofessional) interpretation of lines 7-8 would be that the speaker is "allowed" to pursue the Youth because simultaneously Clarinda embodies so much "beauteous Woman". There is no issue because although Clarinda clearly possess masculinity or masculine traits, on the outside (note use of "in view") Clarinda is a beautiful woman, or at least beautiful in a feminine way. Maybe there is also some connection to other viewers (i.e. observers of Clarinda + Mrs. B in daily life) with regards to "in view", that Clarinda's hyper-feminine appearance obscures their more intimate relationship, leading back to traditional gender roles and how Aphra Behn (or in this case Mrs. B) is "taking advantage" of them.
@DrOctaviaCox
3 жыл бұрын
That's an absolutely brilliant point about "in view" perhaps suggesting an outward-facing 'viewing' of her - that Clarinda displays so much "beauteous Woman" to the world that her 'femaleness' (embodied in her beauty, womanliness, femininity, attractiveness, etc) is assumed by society. And this ties in, perhaps, with "thy Form excuses it" (l.14) - that Clarinda's "Form" (where "so much beauteous Woman is in view") "excuses" or persuades society that she is conventionally 'feminine' in all aspects of life.
@eva10210
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you!! :) My takeaway is that I need to immediately go learn more about Aphra Behn and read her works.... P.S. I have been loving your videos and I really enjoy how you encourage participation from your audience 😊
@DrOctaviaCox
3 жыл бұрын
@@eva10210 Thank you Eva - much appreciated.
@mesamies123
Жыл бұрын
Excellent! Thank you!
@alanbash2921
Жыл бұрын
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@ladooshka
3 жыл бұрын
Let me first to introduce myself that English is my second language. But I love to read and listen to it very much. Here is what I understood about 'This last will justify my soft complaint While that may serve to lessen my constraint". For me it more like that Behn by calling/admitting Clarinda as a Charming Youth is a way of rejecting the notion that genders have to behave in certain way, squeezed by gender roles that society determines for them. Because Clarinda did openly redefine her role thus this emboldens the author to step slightly over boundaries as well. For me 'Soft complaint' here means some soft scolding of the author to call a fair maiden a youth from the society (represented by the author here) but not harsh scolding just some. For Behn though pronouncing it, putting it on paper, sort of voicing it helps the author to try freeing herself too from those constraints of gender roles as you rightfully pointed: males fight in wars but females stay home and keep families never other way around. But again I maybe am completely wrong in my understanding. Thank you Dr. Cox for wonderful trips in history through literature!
@suzannehayasaki2739
3 жыл бұрын
If you choose to read the line: I, the youth, pursue, then you can read the “we” as “the feminine part of me and the masculine part of me”. The deluding form would also be the masculine and feminine in Clarissa. The bright nymph could be the feminine form that the masculine Behn pursues, but then suddenly Behn is faced with the swain form of Clarinda. In general, when feeling masculine and active, Behn doesn’t blush . But then awed by Clarinda’s beauty/ attractiveness, she becomes the one pursued by the swain.
@reveranttangent1771
3 жыл бұрын
And, also, in the story of Lord Hermaphroditos, the nymphae pursued Him and hid in order to ambush Him.
@DrOctaviaCox
3 жыл бұрын
Yes, absolutely - great point - in the myth Salmacis (nymph, female) pursued Hermaphroditus. I did consider bringing this into the video, but it was already very long!
@reveranttangent1771
3 жыл бұрын
@@DrOctaviaCox 😊 we're nerds, we're auditing a lecture for fun. I doubt, length tends to be a concern for us on a time management basis.
@DrOctaviaCox
3 жыл бұрын
Ha! - that is a very fair point!
@DrOctaviaCox
3 жыл бұрын
As an additional point, I was thinking of bringing in a discussion of the figure of Alexis. He's a conventional swain figure in much pastoral poetry (see e.g. Alexander Pope's 'Summer. The Second Pastoral, or Alexis' (1709) "Where stray ye, Muses, in what Lawn or Grove, | While your Alexis pines in hopeless Love?"). But interestingly in Virgil's Second Eclogue, Alexis is the object of the attentions of the (male) shepherd Corydon. This is John Dryden's description, from his translation of Virgil (1697), ‘The Second Pastoral. Or, Alexis': The Argument. “The Commentators can by no means agree on the Person of Alexis, but are all of opinion that some Beautiful Youth is meant by him, to whom Virgil here makes Love; in Corydon’s Language and Simplicity. His way of Courtship is wholly Pastoral: He complains of the Boys Coyness, recommends himself for his Beauty and Skill in Piping; invites the Youth into the Country, where he promises him the Diversions of the Place; with a suitable Present of Nuts and Apples: But when he finds nothing will prevail, he resolves to quit his troublesome Amour, and betake himself again to his former Business.”
@reveranttangent1771
3 жыл бұрын
@@DrOctaviaCox thank you. I wasn't aware of that. I may have to look up the possible symbolism of the apple and nuts, because the traditional approach to the pedaristic relationship included passing on wisdom to the younger partner and I know that Lady Athena was associated with nuts because they were associated with wisdom.
@katrand5357
3 жыл бұрын
I Googled who wrote the first novel a good while ago and Oroonoko was so designated. Was that incorrect?
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