To be creating 1800 x more tire particlates they would need to wear our 1800 x more tires
@jaredheymann
3 ай бұрын
(Checks notes....) That is correct.
@mullergyula4174
3 ай бұрын
LOL, that is just too logical.
@BenjaminCronce
3 ай бұрын
Great point. Now I'm curious the relationship between wear and particulates. Can you have high wear and low particulates? Maybe the cause of wear influences particulate production in a non-linear way.
@rogergeyer9851
3 ай бұрын
@@BenjaminCronce: Also, it might matter a LOT re WHAT the particulates ARE. Are they close to natural? (Rubber vs. some complex man made molecule which might do bad things, for example)? Do they hang around in the atmosphere a long time? Do they potentially cause lung disease and/or cancer? Etc? Those things may well matter a lot MORE than if, for example, the tires wear 5% or even 10% more quickly. For one thing, maybe some particulates don't stay in the atmosphere for a meaningful period of time due to size, density, etc.
@JonathanMaddox
3 ай бұрын
None of the sources said anything like that. The source says that TYRES create 1800 times more particulates than TAILPIPES. These are not the same fruit. The video makes this point over and over again...
@PHU35
3 ай бұрын
Another problem I have with these numbers is that they assume that all of the tyre weight lost is released as particulate matter in the air, which is not the reality. From what I can find estimations range from 0,1% to 10% of tyre particles being released into the air, which means these numbers are another 10 to 1000 times off.
@rogergeyer9851
3 ай бұрын
@PHU35: If the estimates for particulate matter can't be any better than TWO orders of magnitude -- are they any good? Are they from science or conjecture? Or just pure intuitive hand waving? I realize tires vary quite a bit, but I would expect real scientific evidence to give some sort of ballpark range, if it's credible, from peer reviewed studies, etc. I'm NOT criticizing you -- I just suspect that range of results implies the risk of some VERY sketchy sources.
@rabidpb
3 ай бұрын
No mention is made anywhere here of particle size. With all the filtering now fitted to exhausts, tailpipe emissions now consist predominantly of PM2.5 particles, which are far worse for health and the environment than the larger particles that tires shed. This error is reinforced by measuring particle emissions solely by mass.
@rogergeyer9851
3 ай бұрын
Do you KNOW that tire emissions are the large particles? Source? You may be right, but if you're just saying that due to your intuition, that's NOT science. Obviously, the small particles are watched carefully re air quality re air safety.
@rabidpb
3 ай бұрын
@@rogergeyer9851 Search for "tyre wear particles ADAC" for an interesting paper on the subject. It references (on page 13 of the PDF) a study by the Technical University of Berlin which analysed particle sizes and found them to be mostly over 50um in size. It's all bad but the larger particles don't stay airborne or so easily cross cell membranes.
@PointsforTryin
3 ай бұрын
Another important point is that the study is specifically (and only) looking at particle pollution. But that's not the only type of pollution that comes out of a tailpipe (i.e. CO2 and NOx).
@jaredheymann
3 ай бұрын
Exactly correct! It's more than just particulate pollution that matters.
@sebyst7907
3 ай бұрын
The tire wear argument is mute, if you drive your car lioe a maniac, than it doesn't matter what power source you have. Evs use brakes far less than ICE.
@rogergeyer9851
3 ай бұрын
moot. Data matters. Facts matter. Regenerative braking does reduce tire wear. HOWEVER, in the real world BEV's DO use up tires faster than ICE's. As the overall data the video POINTED OUT shows. Just using intuition and ignoring ALL THE EVIDENCE ends up with flat earthers and anti-vaxxers. Don't do that. The POINT is that in reality, yes, BEV tires are a LITTLE worse overall, re the extra weight causing more tire wear. (For one OBVIOUS thing -- tire wear occurs whether braking is going on or not. Over time, interstate driving causes a LOT of tire wear if you never brake on the interstate, for example. ) BUT, the particulate emissions from MANY tanks of gasoline burned over the course of the life of ONE set of tires makes the particulate emissions from gasoline VASTLY worse than tire emissions. Obvious fact: CO2 emissions for ONE gallon of gasoline are roughly TWENTY pounds. So over the 50,000 miles or so tire life of a good set of ICE tires, that's roughly 2000 gallons of gasoline, or 40,000 POUNDS of just CO2, plus all the other harmful emissions from burning gasoline. And with tires, all you're losing is part of the tread surface, so a fraction of the weight of the tires. So big round numbers, maybe 40 pounds of tire emissions (10-ish pounds a tire, vs. 40,000 pounds of fuel emissions). So the big multiplication factor is clearly AGAINST ICE's over all. Whether that ends up closer to 100X or 5000X.
@sebyst7907
3 ай бұрын
@@rogergeyer9851 yeah, I've heard so many wierd "intuitions" from opponents, funnest one has been the tire argument, almost as good as the cobalt argument, forgetting the countless oil spills. Nice run down on your reply😊
@JonathanMaddox
3 ай бұрын
@@rogergeyer9851 regenerative braking reduces *brake* wear, not tyre wear.
@1964mcqueen
3 ай бұрын
Even the most conservative studies do not capture all of the emissions of ICE vehicles. The fuel and fluids they consume are emitting from the moment they are pumped/dug from the ground, throughout the transportation, processing and refining and ultimately out of the tail-pipe. They use far more parts throughout their lifetimes; brakes, belts, hoses etc... all have their own emissions trail. My 2014 Nissan Leaf is on its original front brake pads. The rears were changed this past fall. Regenerative braking means extremely less brake wear on EVs. That is the entire parts list for a 10 year old daily driver. My 2014 Nissan Leaf weighs significantly less that most SUVs and Pick Up Trucks - you know, the ICE vehicles that make up most vehicles on the road these days. Tire wear is no worse than any ICE vehicle I have owned, and better than most. And I charge on a grid that is 97% emissions free.
@sword_racer185
3 ай бұрын
Eh we could use some more climate change not warm enough for me yet
@toyotaprius79
3 ай бұрын
@@sword_racer185hubris
@brandonn161
3 ай бұрын
Almost everyone I know that own an EV did not buy it because it is more environment, they bought it because of the lack of maintenance and gas. Personally for me, it cost me less than 60 a month to charge my car on a 120v outlet when compare to my previous ICE car (2011 Subaru STI) , it costed me over 200 a month on gas, and this was back in 2021 gas prices.
@kenik2023
3 ай бұрын
Weird... My SUV only uses 100 dollars a month on gas. Something wrong with your Subie bro.👀
@brandonn161
3 ай бұрын
@@kenik2023 It's a sport car and has horrible gas milage. I avg 18 MPG and if I get lucky 21 MPG
@TheBaCoNzzzz
3 ай бұрын
This comment is the main justification, where I am it averages about $1.44 a day to keep my car charged and if I need to top off ~30% - 80% it’s only 12 dollars. Not to mention the 0% interest rate for the duration of the loan, in 2024? Yeah I would buy the ev again
@Electronica27
3 ай бұрын
In cali gas prices are getting up to $6 a gallon. Ofc people there want evs
@chiplangowski3298
3 ай бұрын
@@kenik2023 - How many miles do you drive per month? You drive $100 worth of miles. He drives $200 worth of miles. He obviously drives more than you. At my last job, I was spending $75 per week ($300 per month) for gas. I Bought an EV and was only spending $45 per month to charge it and make the same commute.
@asharak84
3 ай бұрын
A couple of big fleet car operators in the UK have said tyre wear is lower on average on their EVs, if only by a small amount. They didn't have a conclusive answer as to why which is fair. It's not a big difference so I think it's not worth trying to claim a reduction as a benefit, particularly given it was a limited data set, but it does counter the narrative that tyre wear is worse. Its also possible that those who chose EVs are driving more conservatively thus changing the results. It's also worth noting that the articles made no mention of the difference in brake particulates, even though that's a very one-sided comparison. Almost like they didn't want to consider it.
@jaredheymann
3 ай бұрын
Very interesting! As you say, driving style is likely the biggest factor, which is consistent with the study. There was mention of the impact of regenerative braking in the original EA study as a factor strongly in favor of EV's, though again, the impact there also comes down to driving style. Thanks for watching and sharing!
@asharak84
3 ай бұрын
@@jaredheymann yep, not having a go at the study, just the articles that are (mis)using the study. A common if depressing occurrence.
@rogergeyer9851
3 ай бұрын
As the video said, the class of vehicle (weight and size), way it is driven, etc. matters a LOT. So ANY meaningful study needs to either control that in an experiment, or account for it in the data -- and report that data in CONTEXT. The POINT is that yes, tire emissions / particulates matter -- but are VERY TINY compared to the scale of the emissions from burning hydrocarbons. Just CO2 produced is a large fraction of a pound PER MILE, for gas burning vehicles. Tires last MANY thousands of miles.
@waynecartwright-js8tw
3 ай бұрын
Data in isolation , totally ignore the waste oil, filters , alternator/cam drive belt particulates. increased brake dust.
@rocketpac
3 ай бұрын
Great video - I have a 2023 Tesla M3 RWD - it weights 326lbs more than a 2023 BMW 330i RWD - but I have smaller wheels, and rarely use the brakes, I bet the emissions are better than the ICE car. I am sick of all the mis-information with EVs, unless you drive 1,000 miles at a time for work, or live in an area with no charging infrastructure, an EV is so much better for the vast majority of people. My Tesla is BY FAR the best car I have ever owned and I have, and still own, a lot of other cars and motorcycles.
@rogergeyer9851
3 ай бұрын
In the end, it will be all about economics -- big picture. For the vast majority, EV's will be better, once batteries, charging infrastructure, reliaibility, etc. matures for BEV's. In the mean time, you could have MASSIVE repair bills for a Tesla out of warranty -- which is a valid risk. (And I'm a patient TSLA stockholder in size (for my account). But you don't get a lot of big Toyota, for example, repair bills until their cars get OLD if you properly maintain them. I don't drive much, so I'm going with HEV's or maybe PHEV's until the EV industry matures and the infrastructure matures. With, for example, a 2025 Toyota Camry HEV (they will ALL be HEV's starting in 2025), I will burn about 60 gallons of gasoline per year, TOTAL. That's MASSIVELY less than the average ICE driver burning something like 500 gallons of gasoline per year. And since I keep a car a long time, my next car could hopefully be a BEV and be a truly mainstream car.
@JustQzen
3 ай бұрын
Just remember, the best thing for the environment is to use/reuse what we have already created. I bet any money its still better for the environment as a whole to drive a 10 year old car for the next 5 years than buy a brand new EV and drive it. Forget what that 10 year old car has done pollution wise in its first 10 years. Thats already done and we cant really do anything about that. I refuse to buy a brand new vehicle simply because its not economically viable to keep it until its no longer drivable. You are expected to sell it after X amount of years/miles and swap it for another brand new vehicle.
@jaredheymann
3 ай бұрын
Agreed, and that both from an environmental and economic standpoint. Drove my previous car for over 17 years and we're at 11 years on our current one. Not having a car payment is a great thing.
@rogergeyer9851
3 ай бұрын
Plus, someone WILL drive an economically viable car until it goes into the junk yard or crusher, even if it's not you.
@ddeerrtt5
3 ай бұрын
I would not have known you have so few subscribers if you had not have brought my attention to it. Very well spoken, and thank you for the links to the studies!
@jaredheymann
3 ай бұрын
Thank you so much for watching and the kind words. I'm just getting started with KZitem as part of my career pivot and looking for a creative outlet. I appreciate the inspiration!
@pusikuracsnickom
3 ай бұрын
Anything over 200bhp is not needed for average consumer. Everything under 150bhp is more than enough for most of the people. After all, you drive EV same as 100bhp IC if you want to get somewhere further than 200km :)
@wolfgangpreier9160
3 ай бұрын
Yes, and your point is? My 460 HP EV is safer, bigger, faster AND cheaper than a 110 HP VW Golf. 🤷♂🤷♀
@rotaryenginepete
3 ай бұрын
@@wolfgangpreier9160 false 😂
@mullergyula4174
3 ай бұрын
I don't think EVs should be pushed by governments and I don't think EVs should be attacked with such stupid articles. We are getting to price parity of EVs and ICE vehicles, no return. The shame is that China will steal the EV market. China invested a lot in batteries and has the best technologies.
@jaredheymann
3 ай бұрын
You hit on the challenge to governments. If we believe ev's are the future (at least to an extent), do you let China establish a dominant position in market and technology, or do you create positive incentives for both business advancement and adoption. Left alone, if China invests and no one else does, that creates a more challenging problem for the future.
@mullergyula4174
3 ай бұрын
@@jaredheymann I would really like the west to keep its car industry.
@jaredheymann
3 ай бұрын
@@mullergyula4174 Same. It's a question of how best to accomplish that.
@josepeixoto3384
3 ай бұрын
The problem is that the very best battery today has only 250 Watt-hours per Kg, while diesel or gasoline have 30 times more, or 10000 Watt-hours per Kg,so Evs are heavy and so, unpleasant to drive,like driving a loaded truck; and A/C and Heat, this one being free on iCEs, will help drain the battery fast, and it is known that in the cold parts of China people drive with heavy coats on and blankets to conserve the EV battery; all that combined with the range anxiety and frequent , long time, charging, and the price of a new battery , leads me to not even think of EVs; i only buy used, way cheaper, cars anyway; they are also tested, so that there are no surprises with chronic problems of LOTS of new cars that were RUSHED through production and then backfired on the new buyers, too many horror stories around; i also avoid parking next to EVs, the lithium batteries are funny, they catch fire, due to the DENDRITES inside them from FAST chargings, leading to HEAT; and speaking of heat, lithium batteries do not work in the cold at all, you still need to own ICE cars there. edit: the cost of the electricity is going up and in some places it is already more expensive then diesel or gasoline per mile, or Km, and that combined with the EV price and new taxes also needs to be well considered.
@AlexanderTanned
Ай бұрын
My takeaway is that EVs may be worse for tyre pollution (not brake dust by any stretch) in some cases, although not even entirely convinced because, as you say the driving style is the most important factor. Important to know as well that you can find many EVs out there that are still using the first set of tyres after 50k miles, which is not bad at all. But that's where it ends, EVS excel in every other metric: no tailpipe emissions, a lot fewer oil changes, therefore a lot less pollution from burning oil and from disposing of it, a lot less brake pad wear, the electricity they use can be extremely clean, i.e.: those who can charge at home with solar panels, and the list goes on.
@Takudza
3 ай бұрын
Are these tire particulates CO2? Coz it’s the tail pipe greenhouse emissions I would be worried about.
@rogergeyer9851
3 ай бұрын
To be fair, other emissions from ICE's cause CANCER, lung disease, etc. Also, BEV production creates a lot more CO2. All such analyses need to use science and carefully measuring things (and using statistics) to get a good picture. But this article is right -- overall emissions, including CO2 emissions from burning hydrocarbon dwarf any tire particulates, re the scale of the problems.
@davidmitchel5285
3 ай бұрын
EVs wear tires and brakes much faster. They weigh more and accelerate faster. The particulate emissions has a larger effect on people, i.e. at ground level. The tailpipe emissions are more of a high altitude environment issue.
@mallamal5578
3 ай бұрын
In a word - no. Just more fud.
@toyotaprius79
3 ай бұрын
I never heard of any of yous guys goving out about burning rubber when the car is combustion powered.
@Overmotor
3 ай бұрын
Fantastic job taking this apart and showing the truth behind the headlines. Great video +1 sub!
@jaredheymann
3 ай бұрын
Thanks so much for watching and for the comment! I truly appreciate it.
@colinofay7237
3 ай бұрын
Planning to make more videos? I hope so, i subbed, good video!
@jaredheymann
3 ай бұрын
Thank you so much! Yes, I'm still figuring things out but trying to do one video per week. I really appreciate the comment.
@dbolt6543
3 ай бұрын
Very analytical with no misleading factoids. If you just tell the truth in a calm manner you probably won't get as high a subscriber range as other, but I hope I am wrong.
@jaredheymann
3 ай бұрын
Thanks so much! You're probably right on the subscriber count, but I feel better about the product and no one else is really doing it. Thanks so much for watching.
@carkawalakhatulistiwa
3 ай бұрын
If these people really love the environment They should use public transportation. Not buy a new electric car even though their petrol car hasn't been damaged yet
@jjamespacbell
3 ай бұрын
Murdoch bought The New York Post, his first major U.S. purchase, in 1976; he still owns the tabloid. Enough said
@rotaryenginepete
3 ай бұрын
Murdoch doesn't own Emission Analytics
@johnstubbs3573
3 ай бұрын
Give me a Tesla any time they are the worlds safest cars and are kept up to date with over the air updates please tell me that any other car company that looks after there car fleet like Tesla does. Tesla also have some of the best air filtration in there cars so tyre wear should not be an issue if you drive a Tesla. No I don't own a Tesla, I wise I did.
@JustQzen
3 ай бұрын
Tyre wear doesn't concern me when it comes to breathing it in. Tyre wear and textile washing is the two biggest contributors towards micro plastics. Give me my damn plastic straw back and figure out some solution for the tyres instead.
@suspiciousstew1169
3 ай бұрын
I went to dick riding city and they said you’re the mayor
@rotaryenginepete
3 ай бұрын
over the air updates won't put out a battery fire that burns underwater 😂
@andredeketeleastutecomplex
3 ай бұрын
If tyres were actually rubber we wouldn't even have this conversation. Capitalism is evil for this, because you know what? Most natural rubber isn't even harvested, in favour of oil based (synthetic) rubber.
@themotofixery
3 ай бұрын
Truth is that people don't buy ev's because of the excitement, they buy them for prestige. If someone made an ev that was truly practical, almost nobody would buy them. This proves that if this enviro-panick is true, we're all doomed because we're a selfish and vein species.
@wolfgangpreier9160
3 ай бұрын
Yes, it is only for the prestige that i buy the cheaper vehicles. My portemonnais likes the better prestige. I did not know that the US calls their money prestige. We just call it Euro.
@jaredheymann
3 ай бұрын
There's a number of different motivations. I'm sure prestige is true for some, but honestly, it feels more a business reason that most ev's have been higher end until recently. Hyundai and others are flipping that, with smaller, more midpriced ev's. We'll see what happens with BYD and others trying to own the low end of the market globally.
@wolfgangpreier9160
3 ай бұрын
@@jaredheymann MG is cheaper, Dacia is cheaper, now the Citroen eC3 is cheaper. Most Hyundai and Kia cost more than a Tesla.
@jaredheymann
3 ай бұрын
@@wolfgangpreier9160 I have a US bias, and I honestly haven't shopped the market recently, so I'm certain there are others that are more affordable. They just are not prominent near me.
@wolfgangpreier9160
3 ай бұрын
@@jaredheymann Not for the US market. Correct. I could not discern that you were only talking about the US. In Australia BYDs are really prominent and cheap. In Europe not as much and in the US they are non existent.
@donciak
3 ай бұрын
lol, journalist are a joke nowadays
@rotaryenginepete
3 ай бұрын
EV's are 18650X worse 😂
@enriquepadilla2542
3 ай бұрын
No they have gotten better. Only 4680 times worse today
@jessicaandtrains7768
3 ай бұрын
I'd rather inhale some co2 than some tyre or brake particles. But hey we are trying to pretend EVs are not ridiculous and that toxic chemicals don't matter.
@jaredheymann
3 ай бұрын
The point is whether the problem is unique to ev's or a general issue with vehicles. The media portrayal is that this is an ev issue.
@jessicaandtrains7768
3 ай бұрын
@jaredheymann Yes it's exaggerated in EVs due to their weight. More tyre wear. More brake wear. More road and structural damage too. A light and simple (so non-hybrid) ICE vehicle is the most environmentally friendly option. No batteries. No electric motors, fewer components. Less mining of rare and unethically sourced materials.
@jaredheymann
3 ай бұрын
@@jessicaandtrains7768 Did you watch the video? My point is those are fallacies that are being used to promote that perspective, and the data doesn't support it. I agree, drive the lightest, smallest vehicle conservatively. Engine type and implications aren't fairly evaluated yet these talking points propogate.
@rogerphelps9939
3 ай бұрын
No need to pretend. EVs are necessary to help save he future of civilisation as we know it or are you too thick to realise that?
@jonahgordon4374
3 ай бұрын
Clicked just to say that the AI thumb nail sucks so do evs maybe not worse for the environment or whatever by if car no go vroom me no want car.
@jaredheymann
3 ай бұрын
Appreciate the feedback! I agree, but this video is doing better than anything with my face on it, so AI it is! Cheers and enjoy your cars that go vroom.
@derekr1113
3 ай бұрын
Answer NO EVs are not heavier than many fossil fuel cars - see Range Rover. Is that all you got? Oil lobby money won’t pay you for this tosh
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