Check out my merch and support the channel! shop.thelinuxcast.org 0:00 Intro 1:38 The Questions I Want to Answer 2:04 Spoiler: The Answer 2:30 They Fixed the Main Issue...kinda. 4:36 Some Are Still Slow 5:47 An Up and Down Experience 8:27 Availability 10:40 Things That Annoy Me About Snaps 11:13 Loopback Devices Still Exist 13:19 My Home Directory is Mine. 17:28 Wrapping Up
@slalomsk8er397
7 ай бұрын
Did you forget about the horrible update UX of running snaps or did they fix it in > 22.04?
@thingsiplay
7 ай бұрын
Valve says the Snap package of Steam maintained by Canonical has issues and do not recommend using it. They recommend other methods like (unofficial) Flatpak or .deb package. But Snap has still one thing going for, what Flatpak does not: Commandline applications. Flatpak does not supprt CLI only tools, which is the biggest issue with it. I want to distribute a CLI tool and Flatpak would have been the perfect choice, but it does not support it.
@catoflado4977
7 ай бұрын
Thats a big reason I cant use Neovim flatpak. Instead, I got the appimage that is easier to launch in a command. Idk if there is how to make flatpak run a command too, would like to know
@thingsiplay
7 ай бұрын
@@catoflado4977 Off course there is! You have to use `flatpak run appid`, where the appid is the long flatpak name with dots of the application. My point in the initial reply wasn't about launching programs in the commandline, that's not an issue. Neovim or Vim aren't CLI tools, at least not what I meant with it. Vim is a terminal application yes, but not a CLI tool for stdin and stdout. I meant tools like grep or cat.
@slalomsk8er397
7 ай бұрын
@@thingsiplay there's a handy script to fix this
@thingsiplay
7 ай бұрын
@@slalomsk8er397 To fix what? The Snap package of Steam?
@slalomsk8er397
7 ай бұрын
@@thingsiplay no, to be able to use the short name of the app on the cli
@JoshuaT902
7 ай бұрын
I like how you can install sdk from snaps. Like for example ruby, nodejs, dotnet has their own snaps maintained by the offical companies/organization who owns those sdk/language. But because of how it is hard coded to canonical's servers and I hate the concept of giving canonical more control over programs.
@davidtoska7791
7 ай бұрын
i used the nodejs-snap a few times, but had to remove it, and use standard nodejs install. the nodejs snap did not play well with other parts of the system. things would just not work.
@rjawiygvozd
7 ай бұрын
flatpak has sdks too, at least dotnet, node and rust are there. They won't be available on the host but they are available to text editor flatpaks like vscode or neovim using FLATPAK_ENABLE_SDK_EXT environment variable
@vogonp4287
7 ай бұрын
Native is almost always better than both, though I've had more issues with Flatpaks than Snaps.
@k.b.tidwell
7 ай бұрын
Not known why but I have the opposite problem on certain of my machines...Snaps won't even start up but Flatpaks have never given me a problem. Who knows?
@vogonp4287
7 ай бұрын
@@k.b.tidwell I guess it depends on system configuration or something. For me, some Flatpaks work fine, but others refuse to launch, and others have odd rendering issues. All Snaps work, though some are slow. I usually just use native packages anyway though.
@Lena-yt3yl
7 ай бұрын
From the technical perspective i stand by snaps, they can do some interesting things flatpak can't. But well, there's still the canonical drama
@metanovii
5 ай бұрын
What kind of things, for example?
@walter_lesaulnier
2 ай бұрын
*In Emperor Kuzco's voice* - "No touchy (my partitions)!!!!"
@cluesagi
7 ай бұрын
My biggest problem with snaps is they hard depend on systemd. I use a different init system so I can't use them even if I wanted to. I hope that can be changed at some point
@htx80nerd
5 ай бұрын
Thanks. This is an important note. I am specifically using distro that do not include systemd.
@alpacamale2909
7 ай бұрын
I removed both snaps and flatpak, they were fucking with my disk space.
@thock_enjoyer
7 ай бұрын
correct answer, and very based
@pcallycat9043
7 ай бұрын
Snaps have reared their ugly head just this last week. Valve has experienced an extreme increase in support calls and associated costs because Ubuntu is distributing broken snaps
@alexstone691
7 ай бұрын
As snaps and flapaks are both meant for average desktop user lsblk issue is just nickpicking
@softwarelivre2389
7 ай бұрын
It ain't if it affects the experience. If a problem only happens to some users, it is still a problem, it doesn't go away.
@LokiScarletWasHere
7 ай бұрын
One thing to mention that you didn't touch on: Snapd. It's crashy, buggy, shitty, and if it crashes, all your snaps crash. Flatpak is just a container installer and a dbus interface for the containers. Snap serves as a parent process to everything you run and creates a single point of failure that, last I ever touched a snap, caused crashes and hangs all the damn time. Snapd hangs, every snap hangs. Snapd crashes, every snap crashes. I have tested what happens if flatpak-session-helper crashes. I have yet to see a flatpak crash or hang because the session helper had a hiccup.
@slalomsk8er397
7 ай бұрын
this sounds bad
@marufbepary100
2 ай бұрын
So far for me, there was only one application that was on Snap but not on Flathub (kinda) and that was Insomnia which is an app that I rely on for development. The Flathub version is maintained by a third party and hasn't been updated in years.
@louisgaarphotography4249
7 ай бұрын
Off-Topic: Wanted to say love your new door (cover) :) Great content - I've been back and fourth on Snaps; might try again
@keyboard_g
7 ай бұрын
Making the snap folder visible is branding. I can’t see another reason for it to be if they don’t need users poking around.
@mckendrick7672
7 ай бұрын
14:22 I've also given up on trying to wrangle with the home directory. I've just resolved to moving my home to my /home/user/Local rather than just having it in /home/user - and then I set all the XDG user directories for example to /home/user/Downloads etc and treat "Local" as if it were always intended to be that way. Then I can just forget about "home" and put a check in my zshrc to always cd to my real home whenever starting if the current working directory is Local. I do still have my XDG dirs set, but I just try to replicate Local/etc, Local/share and so on as much as possible and then symlink Local/.local to Local and Local/.config to Local/etc. This has worked best for me to at least keep the junk out of mind. It's just not worth doing more than that. It does mean I sometimes have to manually reveal the original home directory to specific flatpaks which need to work with documents but don't have portals set up, but I don't really mind that. Frankly I just hate dots - I'd rather they all be in plain view inside a garbage drawer (which Local has become for me).
@TheLinuxCast
7 ай бұрын
This is utter brilliance and I am stealing it. I'm also going to make a video on it. If I forget to thank you in the video, have my thanks now. Also my admiration for your brilliance. Did I mention this is effing awesome? Excuse me while I go do this.
@mckendrick7672
7 ай бұрын
@@TheLinuxCast Haha, that's great. I've been working on some scripts and services to automate this upon user creation without having to set it up every time because I hate the mess.
@Neumah
7 ай бұрын
lol that "noo" @ 15:07 sounds so genuinely chocked and disapproving
@zenmaster24
7 ай бұрын
Why not appimages? Because they arent integrated in to the update/menu system? I prefer them myself
@tutacat
7 ай бұрын
You can actually integrate them with either AppImageLauncher, or the appimaged script daemon to copy and remove desktop files from .local to show in the launcher
@zenmaster24
7 ай бұрын
@@tutacat i integrate them using appimagelauncher, meant rather its not a native feature - you need another app to do it
@MartinEvans
7 ай бұрын
Tbh use whichever works for your use-case IMO is the best way to go, for those using Ubuntu/Spin-offs should consider snaps before anything else (if available ofc). My preference is Flatpak on my desktop (Ublue Kinoite user) and snaps on my laptop (running Ubuntu). The whole speed thing for me is mostly a non-issue as with most things the 'First' opening of the app sucks balls on either system lol. Great vid as always my friend keep up the great work!
@STONE69_
7 ай бұрын
No snaps for this guy, Canonical is going down the same road as Microsoft Windows. Don't go down that road, you will get burnt again.
@max_im_um
7 ай бұрын
Same can be said about all Chromium users (that includes Brave and Co).
@Batwam0
7 ай бұрын
That’s it, everyone is going to hell. It’s Temple OS is the only way if you want to be a real nerd 🤓
@STONE69_
7 ай бұрын
@@max_im_um This is why I use Librewolf and Firefox LOL a Gecko Engine, no Chromium. Ever heard of these?
@Martan404
7 ай бұрын
@@max_im_um That is why I am using Firefox and more people should too
@enigmaorion7047
Ай бұрын
As a new user of Linux, I am okay with them taking the route if it means more people try Linux. I would rather have 100 evil corporations than one mega-corporation.
@PKM1010
7 ай бұрын
On Ubuntu I stick to Flatpak, however, Blender with Flatpak has some limitations, I can't get Radeon HIP working on it.
@milohoffman274
7 ай бұрын
Basically, Canonical is very mistakenly thinking no one uses the CLI and will not see this mess.
@bhargavjitbhuyan9394
2 ай бұрын
Yes, but if I install ubuntu on my friend's laptop/desktop/handheld/whatever machine, he/she will probably never bother me with such questions because probably he/she will never even use the terminal. Most average people don't care about the terminal even though it is objectively faster.
@k.b.tidwell
7 ай бұрын
I've got a couple laptops which, for whatever reason (too lazy to invest time into finding out why) Snaps do NOT work on them. They don't crash, they won't even start up. Flatpaks have never given me problems though. So for the sake of my OCD everything-has-to-work-identically-on-everything-I-own mentality, I use Flatpaks for the couple items not available to me as system files.
@eps-nx8zg
7 ай бұрын
I found a handful of code editing type apps like vscode and emacs do not work correctly in a flatpak but they run perfectly in a snap. The only problem I have with them is canonical.
@JoshuaT902
7 ай бұрын
I wouldn't have an issue if they fix themes and community hosted servers. Having them hard coded to canonical servers is the biggest issue
@prime1337_
7 ай бұрын
And why is canonical problem?
@softwarelivre2389
7 ай бұрын
@@prime1337_remember Amazon on Ubuntu?
@max_im_um
7 ай бұрын
Yes, canonical are bad. Red hat on the other hand are trustworthy, they never locked source code behind a paywall or anything like that. They never shafted IT professionals by shrinking centOS support from 10 years to 1 year, either. They're the good guys, canonical are the bad guys.
@softwarelivre2389
7 ай бұрын
@@max_im_um showing someone worse doesn't make you less bad. No fallacies here please
@Bob-tx7hv
7 ай бұрын
there is actually a dot snap directory in your home directory along with the snap dir, perhaps you haven't noticed it?
@alpacamale2909
7 ай бұрын
Back in the day you could get by with a 20gb partition for linux. Not anymore fam🤣
@user-xe6sm4jv8f
7 ай бұрын
What stops ya?
@alpacamale2909
7 ай бұрын
@@user-xe6sm4jv8f bloat
@Amos_Huclkeberry
7 ай бұрын
0:42 You said pooprietary 😆
@JHSaxa
7 ай бұрын
As someone new to Linux, I use snaps, flappak, and native. Snaps seem to be more up to date than flatpak and native 90% of the time.
@pstrizle9000
7 ай бұрын
They need a snap db type deal if they're gonna be this way.. sorta like proton db. If an app takes unacceptably long to launch for what it is, then u get a dirt snap db rank and things that launch in a snap like their misleading title suggests can be given a diamond snap db ranking
@ElHua
7 ай бұрын
Spotify's website tells linux users to use snap. I did this at first, but it was slow and buggy. I don't know why I didn't check the repository first, but that version works much better.
@tutacat
7 ай бұрын
That's just spotify being buggy and slow (on everything), but some of the snap bugs or misconfiguration do make it worse. The reason companies use snap/flatpak/appimage is it's easy to install proprietary software, and no one else controls it. But it's also more portable
@ElHua
6 ай бұрын
@xclaxy Oh no! Spotify will tell people that I listen to Weezer and the Joe Rogan podcast... I get what you're saying, but there is nothing Spotify could disclose that I am not willing to share on my own.
@alienews0
4 ай бұрын
12:59 and "fdisk -l" produces an even more ugly output with real disks partitions in the middle of a list of snap loops XD so aweful. There are most likely command line options to filter that but the "vanilla" experience stays ugly
@mrtruth84
7 ай бұрын
Another thing that bugs me brutally is tha fact there's a sandboxed desktop environment inside my native desktop environment just for the sake of run a app, in addition to the the well know issues with inconsistent UI, and this is valid for both Snap and Flatpak. I'll definetely continue for a long time not using these sandboxed packages.
@DiomedesStrosMkai
7 ай бұрын
Isn't that literally what he's doing when he's using VirtualBox to run programs? The whole point of using flatpaks, etc., is that the program you want isn't available, or isn't up-to-date, on your chosen distro. Obviously if your chosen repository is up-to-date, there is no reason to use flatpaks, etc.
@UltimusShadow.
7 ай бұрын
TLDR.......................NO!
@OcteractSG
7 ай бұрын
The more time that passes, the harder it is for Canonical to justify keeping the Snap store closed. They let in a crypto wallet stealer a few months ago, and they aren’t even requiring applications to use the faster loading time functionality they added. These are the reasons for which you would keep the distribution of Snaps closed, but Canonical is not leveraging it. Snap is a great technology, so why is it being held back by a business/political decision that isn’t even benefitting anyone? Regarding loopback devices, just alias lsbkk to list block devices without loops. It’s even easier to type! But who even needs to run lsblk on a regular basis anyway? I’ve always found this to be the weakest point against Snaps, and it’s just an attempt to pad out the discussions of why people don’t want to use them. Also, we can’t complain about the snap directory when Flatpak is the only one using the car directory. For the record, I don’t use any Snaps. I’m just pointing out unreason where I find it.
@SirSomnolent
7 ай бұрын
I still do not see the problem eith traditional shared library native apps. I mean, guys on Gentoo compile everything. Why is it so awful for open software to be built as a package for that distro?
@hruettimann
7 ай бұрын
I just recently, for the first time, installed a Snap application. And I am having weird issues, I so far did not experience with Flatpak apps. After installing the Snap app did show just a bunch if squares instead of text. It appears to be a common problem with Snap GUI apps (with an easy fix that involves resetting font caches). Also the Snap app cannot access files on my NAS, only my home directory. So far I did both manage to solve the last issue, so basically cannot use this particular app (all my personal files are on network shares). So to summarize, the Snap experience has not been great for me. But it might also just be a problem with this particular app.
@that_leaflet
7 ай бұрын
Is that app Bitwarden?
@hruettimann
7 ай бұрын
@@that_leaflet The app is called Filemail. Is Bitwarden Snap acting similarly?
@Ray-ds5dc
7 ай бұрын
There are a couple of snaps for running old Command and Conquer (Win 97) games available, so I added snaps to my Linux Mint computers. The snaps worked well under Mint, but the loop device issues annoyed me so much that I removed snaps from all my Linux Mint computers.
@ruenoak
7 ай бұрын
I think the Snap vs Flatpak debate will never be settled, Linux tribalism will see to that, flip a coin and choose one. My question has always been, "Are they as good or better than native packages?" My answer to this is no they are not. They are getting there but shouldn't be thought as a replacing for native packaging until they are at leased equal. Apart from Debian maybe, unfortunately Linux has a tendency to always be running in dev mode.
@alienews0
4 ай бұрын
for your home directory, why do you display it in a GUI in the 1st place ??! personally i only ls (or la or ll) on it, the files for which i use a graphical file explorer are either in my Documents or Videos or Pictures, etc but never directly in my home. So i never have any interest in opening that folder in a GUI. I might vi or nano .bashrc for example, but i never opened nautilus for it to launch gedit to open .bashrc.... I never go gui for such things
@a_wild_Kirillian
4 ай бұрын
He had spent almost 5 minutes explaining that he doesn't like the "snap" folder in his ls and ranger both of which are terminal applications. And yet you still went on a rant how YOU do stuff on your PC. In terminal! Looks like it's time to contemplate and get your head out of your butt.
@alienews0
4 ай бұрын
@@a_wild_Kirillian yeah i was probably high when i wrote this.. or maybe there is a part of the video where he shows his home in a GUI, i'm too lazy to check. Anyway the point is you shouldn't store the file you create directly under your home directory, but rather store ur docs in Documents your zic in music and so on... So you only need to see the content of your home when you search for a file written there by some program not very worried of the conventions (i.e. exceptionally). So yeah my point stay same (except for the gui aspect) why would you spend your time listing your home... You almost never have too, u want to edit a hidden file ? vi/nano .[TAB][TAB] and it lists files u're interested in, not the snap; cd to a hidden dir ? same thing : cd .[TAB][TAB] (again no snap folder shown). So unless you are like "let's see what files are in my home" instead of "let's edit .bash_history" or let's edit .config/compton.conf for example, u will never be bothered by the snap folder... Anyway snap are very fast now, on my ubuntu 24.04 i can't guess firefox is snaped as it launches instantly (
@a_wild_Kirillian
4 ай бұрын
@@alienews0, thanks. This makes sense now. The thing is: it's not an objective reason. If you have to adjust your vision of your system and the way of operation because of a folder, it doesn't feel great. Silly human things which are important. I like clever packaging of apps. Both flatpaks and snaps are good. But I lack the technical knowledge to understand which format has more potential to be great.
@alienews0
4 ай бұрын
@@a_wild_Kirillian "But I lack the technical knowledge" => honestly this is more political than technical, to put it roughly : snap has only one repository centralized by cannonical so they can review packages; while flatpak allows to add any repository (even if in fact almost everyone uses only flathub). So yeah, basically, snap are more controlled and less open in a way (even though cannonical said they might open and publish the server side code as well (but ain't their priority as accrding to them the protocole is crystal clear so retro ingineering the server side code would be piece of cake (I didn't verify that claim) , but still it's currently only serving cannonical repo) while flatpak is more open (everyone can create his flapack repo) but therefore less secured.
@ShoddyAvenger
7 ай бұрын
you already have a .snap folder as well as the visible snap.... can't make it hidden because it already has a hidden one of same name perhaps...?
@TheLinuxCast
7 ай бұрын
No. When you hide it with the command I showed it creates that. That's how it hides it for GUI file managers.
@gklinger
7 ай бұрын
I share your silly peeves with Snaps and that's why I don't use them. Totally ridiculous, I admit. Oh well.
@jesse7631
7 ай бұрын
FIRST! I never get to say that. Great video bro, as always.
@wyfyj
7 ай бұрын
I think so
@vilian9185
7 ай бұрын
valve pushing flatpak pressured canonical lol
@rursus8354
7 ай бұрын
Ein Schnaps! Hoch die Tassen!
@Tzalim
7 ай бұрын
Nope, I'd rather use flatpack and appimages before I use snap.
@stopspyingonme9210
7 ай бұрын
You already have a .snap folder
@TheLinuxCast
7 ай бұрын
Created when you hide it from the GUI. It doesn't in fact actually hide it from ls or from Ranger
@xperience-evolution
7 ай бұрын
I install what fits my needs. First I search my Distros Repository. Then I prefere Snaps but when something is available as a Flatpak I use that. Same with other formats. Why would I want to limit myself?
@santos8735
7 ай бұрын
2:53 wallpaper looks very nice
@menzokruizinga
7 ай бұрын
Snaps are trash they never worked for Me when i reinstall ubuntu i completely remove It and block it it will never be installed on my system
@Kermit2k
7 ай бұрын
why do you write like this ?
@tristen_grant
7 ай бұрын
Yeah, I've been having issues with Todoist on Linux.
@Mikuru-inkings
7 ай бұрын
What bar is that?
@TheLinuxCast
7 ай бұрын
Xmobar
@Mikuru-inkings
7 ай бұрын
@@TheLinuxCast thanks
@stopspyingonme9210
7 ай бұрын
Mostly always better. You script this?
@TheLinuxCast
7 ай бұрын
You must be new. lol
@Kneedragon1962
7 ай бұрын
Snaps v flatpax ~ I've kinda got the shits with both of them, and I'm getting less pleased with ap_images while we speak.
@august2108
7 ай бұрын
still not using them, be gone....
@blueboy4625
7 ай бұрын
I really only like snaps because they've been verified by the Canonical team. Atleast I can feel a bit safer when using less common software. 😅
@esn2618
7 ай бұрын
Well there were malware software in snap store that canonical didn't find in time
@STONE69_
7 ай бұрын
Thats a bunch of baloney.
@cejannuzi
7 ай бұрын
@@esn2618 One guy claimed there was a phony bitcoin app or something. Never really saw what the follow up on it was.
@blueboy4625
7 ай бұрын
@@esn2618 If I remember correctly it was where the app sent your data to that was dangerous, which to be fair, you shouldn't be giving your crypto keys to any services. The actual apps themselves didn't have any dangerous payloads which would execute on your machine to my knowledge.
@ericodionneviglione9426
7 ай бұрын
Could a solution to snaps and flatpak programs' slowness be to get a faster CPU? CPUs are getting faster and faster, so maybe soon everything shall be "lickety-split". Eventually? :)
@LinuxLuminaries121
7 ай бұрын
Snap is crap🥵🥵🥵🥵🥵🥵😂😂😂😂😂😂 lot's of people use gnome and KDE , so window managers will be fast ,
@romanmaciel8072
7 ай бұрын
Second :( not as cool
@romanmaciel8072
7 ай бұрын
W Todoist
@ShaneSemler
7 ай бұрын
I don't care. I use what works. If a snap package has an application I need and it functions, that's good enough for me.
@theyellowmongoose6181
7 ай бұрын
I agree, on ubuntu I always install the snap first, if it gives me crap. I just install the flatpak, last choice is the deb.
@jasongronn6764
7 ай бұрын
Third!
@F_Around_and_find_out
7 ай бұрын
Who cares if Snap is good or not when the third party software repository that gets enable for the first time is Flathub anyway.
@volodymyrkilchenko
7 ай бұрын
no one likes snaps still canonical pushing them
@VMateus72
7 ай бұрын
Snaps are not designed for Desktop computing but for Server systems, and at that they are fantastic and far superior to flatpak. And as my opinion the linux is not yet ready for Desktop and people should use windows or mac. But that's just my opinion and Linux fanatics will never agree to that.
@esra_erimez
7 ай бұрын
God, I love your videos.
@oalfodr
7 ай бұрын
Your home dir is disgusting :) And I am sad about you giving up on having it nicer. I dislike anything being hidden so I display all in my fm: 9 dot and 5 visible dirs
@milohoffman274
7 ай бұрын
It always seemed to me they were lazy developers who refuse to follow Linux conventions to use hidden dirs etc, and by making a complete mess on your system, and not caring about quality, it makes me sus of the entire snap system.
@torsten.breswald
6 ай бұрын
for now lsblk | awk '{ if ( $6 != "loop") {print} }'
Пікірлер: 131