One aspect of temperature that you didn't cover in this video, but have in past ones: thermal expansion. The hotter you print, the more the plastic expands, and therefore contracts while cooling... This is one of the main factors in warping and necessitates a heated build chamber for certain materials. The low temps parts aren't shrinking as much and are tighter when put in the same hole as a part printed at a higher temp. Also print speed is a huge factor in print temperature. The bottom line is heat transfer, how much heat is getting into the plastic, what that heat does, and how long it stays there. If I want stronger prints with better adhered layers, I print slower. If strength isn't a factor and I need a faster print, I turn up the temp with the speed.
@FrozenByFire3
Жыл бұрын
What would you consider as slow printing? I can most certainly confirm that printing Cf nylon at 30mm/s is much weaker than printing the exact same part at 60mm/s. By printing faster, the lower layers are actually at a higher temperature thus improving bonding strength. You can take this further by printing at 60-80mm/s but at far higher temperatures than recommended. For example, I print Taulmans CF nylon at ~70mm/s at 280-285°C. They recommend 255-260°C. This makes the layer adhesion insanely strong and the part overall is leagues stronger and stiffer. The downside is supports will bond way too well and warping becomes a factor to be weary of.
@HauntedSheppard
Жыл бұрын
@@FrozenByFire3 there's probably multiple ways to reach a certain result, with different downsides
@AldinWright
16 күн бұрын
I know im 2 years behind on this comment, but I am also finding that in some cases not cooling quickly enough with certain filaments (in my case polymaker polylite pla pro) Causes filament on overhands to curl upward due to still being too hot when the nozzle runs back over them and leaves them curled upwards. So in some cases cooling is very important, especially after the first few layers!
@bowieinc
2 жыл бұрын
For me, 10 ° under high number on filament spool has always worked well. Then bed pla 55 ° and Petg 85 ° Biggest fix I’ve learn for bed adhesion and avoiding fuzzy first lays with a PEI Flex sheet is just occasionally washing it in the sink under hot water with dawn dish detergent. Try this first when things go wrong all of the sudden. I learned this after days of settings chasing. Great video!
@prxrb
2 жыл бұрын
Cold prints getting stuck in the impact test jig: parts printed at lower temperatures likely shrink less after printing, resulting in larger parts and a tighter fit.
@flyingfortress4819
2 жыл бұрын
I got into printing a month ago by picking up an Ender 3 V2. Your high-quality videos have been immensely helpful. Keep up the great work!
@Max_Janszen
5 ай бұрын
It's been a year, but slap the Professional Firmware by mriscoc, it's a game changer and so nice
@SebastianTEC
2 жыл бұрын
Thomas is getting more and more like Stefan. Won't be long before he CNC's a proper pull test jig.
@SirSpence99
2 жыл бұрын
I'd say the opposite is closer to the truth...
@peterschets1380
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, but i find the charts that Stefan showed, very hard to read. Go-go Thomas!
@muffty1337
2 жыл бұрын
Who is Stefan?
@SebastianTEC
2 жыл бұрын
@@muffty1337 Another KZitem 3D printer/CNC content creator (Channel is "CNC Kitchen"). Thomas and Stefan have Podcast together (Podcast is "The Melt Zone").
@peterschets1380
2 жыл бұрын
@@muffty1337 Stefan from CNC Kitchen.
@nocjef
2 жыл бұрын
White PETG is always reliably bad for me, doesn’t matter the brand I’ve tried. Something about the pigment just makes it worse than every other color.
@andersalbertsson215
2 жыл бұрын
I agree I avoid white filaments
2 жыл бұрын
Had the same with white PLA. It was terrible so never again.
@Donnerwamp
2 жыл бұрын
All white filaments are a hassle to me, no matter the polymer. PLA, PETG, ASA, ABS, TPU, no matter what, I need at least two prints to get acceptable results.
@wturber
2 жыл бұрын
The "milky white" PETG I get from California Filaments has always printed fine for me. My guess is that they have less of the white pigment - hence the semi-translucent "milky" appearance. If you really want white in PETG, you might give that a try.
@peterpiwowarski8689
2 жыл бұрын
Do they just have to load it up too much with the TiO_2 powder to make PET look opaque enough?
@RomanoPRODUCTION
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Thomas for publishing a neat video in the middle of summer. So we can print at the right temperature. ❤❤❤❤❤
@Sawuasfoiythl
2 жыл бұрын
11:40 "I should note that the default temperature for Prusament PETG, on PrusaSlicer on a Prusa MK3 is 250 Prusa-degrees" I know Prusa have printers and slicers but I didn't know they had their own units 😂
@new1ru
2 жыл бұрын
All the post-soviet 3d printing enthusiasts refer to "parrots", not degrees. This origins from an old cartoon scene with character measuring a big snakes body length with a parrot. Every printer reports temperature a bit off (most of them are Chinese here, so more prone to this behavior) so sharing what temperature you use is more "scientific" if you mention the units may vary this way:)
@meisievannancy
4 ай бұрын
Most of the thermistors are manufacturered in China. Even on American and German 3D printers, so mostly their temperatures are the same as the Chinese ones. You can buy thermistors with different temperature tolerances. All from China. So it depends on what is installed and where exactly it is located in measurement. Also the thermistors are all rated at 25C but have different thermal constants. But the manufacturers are aware of what these are and choose them specifically. The possibility is manufacturers don't test a part to confirm the characteristic tolerance is within spec.
@JohnDeaux
2 жыл бұрын
honestly, temperature settings are something I set on a per-print basis. Things that I factor in are: Nozzle size, purpose of the print, room temperature, are there any large bridges etc. I generally print PLA with 200-210 Celsius, a bit lower for 0.2 nozzle, about 220 with a 0.6/0.8 nozzle(those are mostly vasae mode prints where I want it to hold water and usually increase flow to about 110% ish)
@hackmedia7755
6 ай бұрын
what bed temperature?
@Zodliness
5 ай бұрын
Watching this makes me glad I can create project profiles directly on my old faithful Ultimaker S3 dual nozzle printer (with NFC filament recognition) (auto levelling & heating). Using preset profiles that I found can include all known and customisable settings, making it easy for novices like me, to start at commercial grade printing qualities, without the hassle of knowing in advance what's required, just splice and load to get projects completed quickly, with a professional finish that requires little to no post processing. Thanks for sharing your invaluable information. 👍
@dementorlp412
5 ай бұрын
thank you so much, i always have problems with dimensions of my parts and tried everything to fix it. I will now test higher temp bc i have always printed at 195°
@jubb1984
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the test! I do appreciate the time it takes to print all those test samples =) I usually found that "glittery" PLA prints way smoother welds at 225 compared to 215 that i actually found works best for run of the mill single color PLA.
@FranNyan
2 жыл бұрын
Additives definitely skew the temperatures. Anything with an iridescent additive I crank up to 230, else it just falls apart.
@Vipcioo
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Thomas for a lot of work to do all these tests. I'm glad you got back to the "old" tracks when you focused on the topic, not personal tours and sometimes strange opinions and comments. There was a point where I saw too much irritation in your videos that pissed me off enough that I stopped following your channel. Let's focus on the topic without intrusive private content. I appreciate you for that. And many others, probably too. Regards.
@lanceknep
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the info...however in engineering terms, impact strength is different to tensile strength. Strength in printed parts with regards to heat and adhesion properties is always going to be governed by application needs. So, print variables should be practiced depending on application. No one setting is actually better than the next. That would be my conclusion. Thanks for the great and interesting content. Much appreciated.
@uhu4677
2 жыл бұрын
9:30 My guess would be, that there's a higher pressure build up in the nozzle, when you print colder. And because of that pressure, the filament will bloat up more, when leaving the nozzle.
@GrubbyZebra
2 жыл бұрын
yup, was thinking the same thing. Lower temp = higher viscosity, which in turn results in higher extrusion pressures and increased die swell.
@erikwithaknotac
2 жыл бұрын
I would have thought slicers allocate for shrink, but too cold and the parts don't shrink to expected dimensions and end up slightly larger
@GrubbyZebra
2 жыл бұрын
@@erikwithaknotac Except that the user sets the Extrusion Multiplier so that the final extrusion width should match the value entered in the slicer for extrusion width, theoretically taking shrinkage out of the equation for the baseline. Also, for the lower temperatures, thermal expansion plays a much lower role than die swell for governing extrusion width (you can verify this by observing the relative change in line width with change in temperature vs change in extrusion speed). I am assuming that Tom didn't change the EM settings for each temperature, but just used the stock setting for the entire run, which means that the main contributor to extrusion width is going to be die swell.
@enosunim
Жыл бұрын
I had to lower temperatures when used 0.2 nozzle. When print in low height rows standard 230C degrees with PETG result in deformations and stringing, so I use 220C instead. Which gave me decent quality on small detail.
@olafmarzocchi6194
2 жыл бұрын
Good tips but in general it's simply easier to pick the highest temperature which allows bridges and overhangs to work well. It's usually very close to the optimal temperature, there's little to be gained by going higher.
@WereCatf
2 жыл бұрын
I have also noticed PLA having a tendency of printing less glossy, more matte at lower temperatures, which is why I tend to lower the temperature somewhat for decorative items; matte items just tend to look better than glossy. I haven't bothered increasing temperatures and instead just adjust infill and/or shells, if I need stronger parts -- I haven't done any proper measurements, but I haven't seen any benefit in increased temps.
@WereCatf
2 жыл бұрын
@Benson Except your analogy is idiotic and doesn't work. One can e.g. perfectly well tell an improvement in acceleration even without a speedometer.
@DOCTOROCTAGONAPUSS
2 жыл бұрын
I've been printing PLA at 200° this whole time and was disappointed in my layer adhesion. THANK YOU!
@alphaqlater
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for your contribution to this type of info. However, what about the affects of fan cooling on layer adhesion. For instance using 15% fan power vs 100% fan on PLA prints. I know personal experience shows this is definitely the case for PETG favoring 15% fan power and not much more for best layer adhesion.
@karlosss1868
2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely. I appreciate the time gone into the video. I just wish this was mentioned. Unless my layer times are low, I print with no fan for PETG to get max strength. It makes a huge difference especially with layer adhesion.
@court2379
2 жыл бұрын
@@karlosss1868 Odd I have always printed with 100% and never noticed adhesion issues. I'll have to play with it now.
@alphaqlater
2 жыл бұрын
@@karlosss1868 I agree for max strength running petg with 0% fans. But If the print design needs some assistance for some fan cooling for bridging, it is always a balance of quality of overall shape yields vs strength in conjunction with overall quality of a parts intended purpose.
@Farming-Technology
2 жыл бұрын
Probably something to do with exponential growth of the search space.
@rileyneufeld7001
2 жыл бұрын
CNC kitchen has a great video on how cooling fan affects part strength. With PLA and PETG you can turn fan down alot but you must print your parts really slow. This will allow the layer to cool enough to not have bad print quality but you must be patient.
@GilesBathgate
2 жыл бұрын
The only question you didn't address is 'Are you really printing at the right temperature'? i.e what is the easiest or best way tell how accurately your thermistor is calibrated....
@YoutubeHandlesSuckBalls
Жыл бұрын
Always nice when you watch a video like this and think, 'Yeah, I'll just keep printing my first layer at 225 and the rest at 215 for PLA' like I have been for about a year now.
@DianosAbael
Жыл бұрын
Lower temp parts are overdimensioned because leaving the nozzle retaining the stress of a larger filament expand in XY and contracts in Z to retain its previous shape. Raising temps or using turbulent nozzles like CHT reduce the effect.
@hefonthefjords
5 ай бұрын
The trouble is, each printer and each brand of filament is going to be slightly different, meaning that really we still need to do at least some calibration with our printers and filaments no matter how much information we have. This testing, and other testing like it, definitely gives us a helping hand to get closer with less testing, but the testing will still be needed.
@joemieszczur9735
Жыл бұрын
i find if you follow the numbers printed on the rolls, I get the ideal finish, so long as everything is tuned up. i offer matte parts as opposed to glossy, and for the PETG i use 220C gets me matte and 240C gets me glossy. just the lower temp requires a slower feed rate to prevent under extrusion. bottom line, the most important research you can do, is on your own. working with the 1st layer or first 5 or so layers you can really dial in your feeds and speeds as well as the ideal temp for what you are going for, whether is "strong" parts, nice looking parts, quick and dirty, etc.
@meisievannancy
4 ай бұрын
What fan speed do you use.i use 0 for the 1st layer and then use 40 to 70% for subsequent. I am not sure what's est yet.
@101fng
2 жыл бұрын
Dude, I’ve got to say, your rate of improvement in English speaking/presentation is impressive. Your English has always been good, but you sound nearly native now. Your inflection patterns are indistinguishable from a native speaker. Any tips for a fellow language learner?
@joost3732
Жыл бұрын
Great video! Would be interesting to see (part of) the test repeated for fine tuning. So eg PLA at 209, 212, 215, 218, 221 or so.
@robert36902
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for doing science! I've just been printing PLA at the default setting of 200C, except bumping up the first layer to 205C for better bed adhesion at the cost of more elephant's foot. Maybe I need to do some testing myself to see if slightly higher temps would be better for the subsequent layers.
@hackmedia7755
6 ай бұрын
what do you set the bed temperature?
@stephenthomas2311
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for these tests and your summary. Great information in the end and you answered a few questions I had in mind along the way.
@kennethfeagins1414
2 жыл бұрын
3 factors will impact your dimensional accuracy in regards to temperature. 1) shrink as the part cools 2) viscosity in the nozzle (pressures) 3) viscosity of extruded material, allowing more creep. Each can be measured and calibrated to identify the cause, then correct. You will need to adjust using a couple test prints.
@Lozzie74
2 жыл бұрын
The only confounding part: how accurate is each machine’s thermistor?
@wturber
2 жыл бұрын
A good point. A test like this can give you a good sense of the general tendency, but you need to calibrate to your own machine in the end. My gut feel is that consumer machines probably vary enough that any two machines could easily be 5C different for the same indicated temperature. You could check build plates with a simple IR thermometer. But nozzle temp is a bit tougher.
@twanheijkoop6753
2 жыл бұрын
@@wturber my ender 3 s1 bed was about 8° C lower than the temperature sensor reported before I redid the PID tuning and added insulation foam. Now its only 4°C colder than set.
@wturber
2 жыл бұрын
@@twanheijkoop6753 I should actually test mine.
@girenloland
2 жыл бұрын
That Segway to prusament filament. Slick thou... Best one this far 😂
@SteveSiegelin
Жыл бұрын
I was thinking I was running super hot when I was printing at 210 c for pla but you're telling me 215 c?
@meisievannancy
4 ай бұрын
I print my South African SA Filament PETG at lower than recommended after numerous temp towers. I even had to abandon the manufacturers PETG temp tower range of 235 to 255C. I find it prints best in gloss at 210C. I thought it was pla except it is flexible like petg and won't stick to my glass bed unless I turn up the heat on the bed to 70C and 250C for the first layer. It's also really strong. It's supposed to be copper coloured (actually more like pot plant orange brown). The fan speed I am still tweeking. Zero on first layer and 40 to 70% on subsequent layers.
@iron4321
Жыл бұрын
Constructive criticism.. reconsider your force to break test methodology. The pipe used as a lever has a variable angle of incidence on the printed test part, when it appears you are trying to test vertical strength.. you are actually testing strength in a constantly changing Y and X vector. Rig up a pulley that is in between the luggage scale and your force input and you will constrain it to the Y axis.
@OldCurmudgeon3DP
2 жыл бұрын
Velocity affects surface gloss for PETG as well. If my print speeds are not constant, my prints are always banded with gloss and matte layers.
@rpgiacon
2 жыл бұрын
If you print below temperature, you will have some solid and soft mix on the polymer, it will make it wiggle while it leaves the nozzle making the tolerances bigger
@wturber
2 жыл бұрын
I had to shake my head a bit about this test batch. Firstly, if I'm printing a part for which strength is a concern, you can darn well bet that I'm not going to print with two walls and 15% infill. That's the kind of setting I would use for generally non-functional parts that deal with little or no real stress. For strong parts, you really do often want your part to "pretend" that it is an injected molded part. Why? Because injection molding is expensive and sometimes you want a part to actually do useful work. I don't print my bike tire removal levers with two walls and 15% infill precisely because I'm going to subject them to high bending loads near the limits of the PETG material - much as your bending test does. Secondly, you chose a matte PETG?!?!? Even if you didn't run into the semi predictable problems that you showed (I print a fair bit of matte black PETG because I really like the finish), I would never assume that a matte PETG filament would provide typical PETG results. In looking at matte PETG, it appears to have some kind of filler that gives it the matte finish. I don't know what that filler is, but I'm assuming that it does not increase structural strength and that it probably compromises it. I treat it as a different material than ordinary PETG. If I were to take this kind of time to do a test, I'd pick either ordinary colors that were the same for both materials, or neutral/no pigment colors. In this case, clear and "natural" for PETG and PLA respectively would be preferred. Doing this means you are testing the plastic and not the dyes or fillers. I'm a fan of both Thomas and Stefan. But I found this test video a bit dumbfounding.
@evanbarnes9984
2 жыл бұрын
I think you misunderstood his explanation about the strength testing parts. He wasn't trying to test ways to make strong parts, he was trying to test the strength of typical printed parts using the most common settings of 2 walls and 15% infill. There are better ways to make strong parts than that. CNC kitchen did a great video on that, it's really most efficient to increase shell thickness. On the second point, I think he was using the standard Prusament PETG that isn't a special matte finish. I had never heard of the matte finish specific PETG though, that sounds really interesting! Have you found the matte black to have significant mechanical weaknesses? That sounds kind of perfect for a project I've got going.
@wturber
2 жыл бұрын
@@evanbarnes9984 I think you missed my point. People printing with only two walls generally aren't very concerned about strength. In situations where strength is any more than a passing issue, people print more and thicker walls - for the exact reasons the CNC Kitchen video outline. I'd also think that having more layers would be make for a statistically better test since with more layer lines, any unusually weaker line would have less relative influence on the results. Maybe his one "noisy" graph would have given better results if more layer lines were involved? To be fair, his two 0.6mm lines are just as thick as three 0.4 mm lines. As for the matte black PETG, I can't say for sure that it isn't as strong. My impression is that its "chalky" nature probably makes for weaker adhesion. But I've never actually tested if. I use the matte because I really like the look. In fact, it can look very nice when combined with the Cura "Fuzzy Skin" feature. If you'd like, I'll do some simple tests. In fact, I'll probably do it either way since this is something I'm a bit curious about myself. As for the look of the filament, search for California Filaments. The have reviews online that often have photos. They also have matte in, I think four colors.
@michaelj3971
2 жыл бұрын
Great review, and plotting the values helped me understand the results better. I know that a lot of effort went into those charts, and it is appreciated.
@lewindeville5599
7 ай бұрын
dud e why are you not changing the first layer temp, thats like the most important setting
@awwastor
Жыл бұрын
Btw you should really tweak for the brand (and sometimes color) of filament too. I have some white PLA that strings horribly at 220C and still strings a ton at 215C but works flawlessly at 210C.
@madDragon08
10 ай бұрын
I'm currently using the Bambu Lab 3d printer P1S. It's an enclosed printer. I noticed that the smaller surface area I'm working with, the hotter I need to print, but I'm only heating up the bed from 35C to 55C. The biggest issue I believe I was having, was the Bambu default settings for the cooling fans is maxed out. My parts were flying off the bed. Definitely going to take some time to learn the best settings for heating and cooling.
@The8blackwidow8
2 жыл бұрын
i always printed my PLA at 190°C and was fine with it. Interesting results, will try out a bit more heat :D
@casadioDesign
2 жыл бұрын
thank you so much for that analysis, it will be really helpful for the improvement of my full 3D printed Bronco
@aeppikx
Жыл бұрын
i print pla in 210 and petg in 240 for me best results , i depends on few more things like temp alone in my experience. my printers stands in an enclosure and there i can slightly lower my temps
@rynnjacobs8601
2 жыл бұрын
I never printed matt filament, neither PETG nor PLA. The matt-optics is the result of the filament filled with some stuff (chalk, talc, whatever) and it wears down the nozzle. I’m not surprised that your results were bad.
@Humatra
2 жыл бұрын
I love these kind of videos. It'd be fun to see you print a bunch of different filaments, go over the challenges of them and do some stress tests. Love the videos keep em coming!
@Cheeky_Goose
2 жыл бұрын
I found that my PETG and PLA prints were getting more and more matte the faster the printer was moving, and I wanted a more glossy and clean look so I increased the temperature as much as I could before the bridges started to sag and then I was able to reach much higher speeds without getting that matte finish. This I think means that the matte finish happens when your filament hasn't had enough time in the hot zone before getting pushed out, so I guess a volcano hotend would help if you print at lower temperatures at faster speeds.
@Mottersmotters
2 жыл бұрын
Fantastic video Thomas. I will start printing at 215 I normally hover around 200. Great efforts 👍🏻Motters 🇬🇧
@AllAbout3D
2 жыл бұрын
09:30 Could it be that the material gets stressed from the high nozzle pressure buildup occuring when printing at too low temperatures, causing residual stresses in the material to cause something similar to die swell, messing up the final dimensions?
@Loebane
2 жыл бұрын
That's a good thought
@WunderBertrand
2 жыл бұрын
It’s can also be because the parts shrink less than they do at regular temperatures. Those tenths of a mm could turn a loose fit into a pressfit. The shear stress and resulting die swell you mentioned could also be a reason especially if Thomas printed the parts at the same speed-/ flow settings and only changed the temperatures for the parts. He didn’t mention calibration for the different temperatures which could somewhat falsify the tests.
@dmk_games
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah I think not fully melted polymer will have swelling around the extruder.
@kkpal
2 жыл бұрын
I second the pressure therory. I think the cause is the higher viscosity of the material at lower temperatures, resulting in more pressure against "itself", thus increasing layer width, because the other directions are constricted.
@nophead
2 жыл бұрын
@@kkpal Die swell does increase at lower temperatures but that is only relevant when printing into free air. When laying down filament its width is determined by the volume per unit length over layer height. With the higher pressure at lower temperatures I would expect the hobbed drive to give a bit less filament, not more, so it is a mystery to me why the parts would get bigger. Perhaps bigger layer start zits due to the extra pressure.
@ColinMacKenzieRobots
2 жыл бұрын
For cold extrusion temps, the filament is not entirely molten but soft enough to squeeze through the nozzle and then expands after it exits causing the layers to be thicker thus poorer tolerance. It may even be molten on the outside since that is the part of the filament in direct contact with the heater block but with a soft inner core not totally hitting the molten temp. You can see this with a zoom camera on the nozzle.
@SjengdeKameel
2 жыл бұрын
The larger dimensions on parts when printing below their optimal temperature can most likely be explained from non-uniform shrinking in relation to the printing temperature. I have long had the suspicion that shrinkage in 3D printed parts is non-lineair. Meaning that the hotter a print is or the more volume of plastic is deposited the more the part will shrink because of the disturbance in the polymer chains being more or less. Keep in mind that with 3D printing we're at the low-end of the liquid range of most plastics. PETG usually prints fine at 230C whilst I believe it's injection molded at close to 280C~ don't quote me on that, but I know from my own injection molding press that I cant get good shots at the same temp as the printing temp. Long story short; 3D printed polymers, specifically FDM printed polymers most likely shrink more when printed at higher temperatures and less when printed at lower printing temperatures. This could well show up in printing a tower at scaling temperatures during the print and the carefully measuring the print. The mechanism behind it must have something to do with how to polymer chains crystallise. I'm not sure if the amorphous or crystalline nature of a polymer would matter or not.
@Jynxx_13
2 жыл бұрын
Fantastic in depth video Tom. I'm a bit of a materials science nerd so this was very informative to me. Thanks!!!
@maximilian.arnold
2 жыл бұрын
Lower Temperatures at "higher speeds" means that the material is less viscous and as such the extrudate swell (die swell) is more severe which might have influence the tolerances. If you print them at lower speeds the impact test samples might fit better (potentially).
@christophstrasser4190
Жыл бұрын
+1
@PCPointerDE
6 ай бұрын
One important thing is the environment temperature. I print in 23°C environment without enclosure and my PLA Benchy is with PLA Polymaker at 205°C fantastic. My Voron with enclosure (doors are opend) I have around 30°C and my Benchy has overhangs. First I thought it's because the new mosquito hotend and wrong cooling geometry but I think it's because the environment temperature. So if you print don't forget the environment temperature for PLA
@bozthescrewup410
2 жыл бұрын
I love the concept of sequential printing, but every time I try the first part comes out fine but the others have terrible first layer extrusion, like when you print without a skirt or staring line and there’s not enough filament in the nozzle at the start of the perimeters.
@3DMusketeers
2 жыл бұрын
Great to see that prusa has their temps in line! I do get pretty bad stringing with PETG at stock temps though, but I do think that is due to the swampy-ness of Florida more than anything else. Easy to clean up, but a bummer none the less! The impact strength is definitely an interesting one. Those variations could be from layer strength as well either yielding or snapping. Obviously a yield will absorb more than a snap? Not sure if there is correlation there.
@Bigdog1787
2 жыл бұрын
Stringing is mostly from not enough cooling for PETG as I had a stock ender 5 pro did tests with it stock before I did the upgraded cooling mod huge difference and no more strings and can even print faster with the new cooling saving time.
@3DMusketeers
2 жыл бұрын
@@Bigdog1787 I run mostly Prusas, cooling is not normally an issue. PETG is known to string as it gets a little bit moist. Having ambient humidity near 50% it is no surprise to me. We just deal with it
@Seriosha
2 жыл бұрын
I have the same problem, and that's with normal humidity and dried filament. Prusament PETG at Stock 250°C prints absolutely awful, hat to go way down to 230 degrees to get reasonable (still not perfect) prints. I am using a plated copper nozzle though, and thought it was due to the better heat transfer. Anyway, i am not happy with how the Prusament PETG Prints on my MK3...
@neversinkmakes
2 жыл бұрын
Engineering school was a long time ago for me, but does part cooling have an impact on brittleness as well? I recall from my materials science course that quenching metal rapidly made it harder but more brittle-also true for plastic?
@JN2023
Жыл бұрын
Realized with my V400 that the consistency in the performance of the hot end thermistor is degrading the more I increase the temp, which is why accurately controlling the actual temp of the nozzle is obviously affected. Perhaps this component of the printer system should be part of what is upgraded instead of being the low-cost performance part that comes standard. However, it may be a challenge to integrate a better component with the controller board. NTC(not PTC) thermistors are expected in 3D printers. Perhaps the real problem comes from the resistance in the thermistors not being linear in the temperature range, which leads to the question of the ideal(but perhaps unnecessary) of having different thermistors with more narrow temp intervals depending on what material is printed (i.e., PLA vs. ASA). This would ultimately lead to one printer modified in HW and not only SW settings for one specific material(or even brand on top of that), and another printer HW+SW modified for whatever other material needs to be printed.
@Neotype33
8 ай бұрын
K1 max 15min benchy boat 600mm/sec hyper pla+ 240c is flawless. So device makes a huge difference. I fine enclosures make the biggest difference.
@mattkeegan1359
2 жыл бұрын
very informative, i appreciate your work taking the time to figure this all out
@JandCanO
2 жыл бұрын
I'm guessing the cold parts are coming out oversized due to die swell. Basically you have a greater temperature gradient as not all the plastic is coming out at the same level of "melted". This leads to internal stresses that can cause the filament to expand out of the nozzle
@nachiketmhatre7411
2 жыл бұрын
Bingo.
@Domieboy
9 ай бұрын
I did a nozzle change recently, and i realized 😂 I needed to print significantly hotter because the nozzle was “clogging” but really it just was t following good enough.
@333donutboy
2 жыл бұрын
I had an interesting experience with PETG the other day. It was printing like doo doo and everything I tried didn't change it. So in desperation I turned up the hot end temp to 260. It started printing and was looking ok but the extruded PETG sounded like a bowl of rice crispys. You could see the the tiny bubbles in the layer lines. I figured the filament was trash because it was full of water and just let it print. After a little while the bubbles went away and the print looked smooth and glossy. I guess the take away from this is that if you think you filament is wet, crank up the temp and see if it bubbles. If it does, dry it out, and maybe save yourself a headache and a couple of dollars too.
@gratefulamateur1393
2 жыл бұрын
The filament on the outside of the spool absorbs more water than filament inside the spool. Filament on the inside is blocked by outside filament.
@333donutboy
2 жыл бұрын
@@gratefulamateur1393 That's what I figured afterwards. I thought this info might help some others with similar problems. Thanks for substantiating my theory.
@netsspam
2 жыл бұрын
yea buddy, a lunchtime show! or better yet, a lunch and learn! :)
@joshmaxwell8767
2 жыл бұрын
"Je-JLCPCB" I was deadass expecting a sick drop. 😆
@GreenAppelPie
2 жыл бұрын
I accidentally printed PLA at 260 yesterday, it looked fine but was rather brittle
@meltdown78
2 жыл бұрын
Different filaments even from the same manufacturer can have wildly different results, even if they are supposed to be the same material. You can't relay on the temps on the spool either, as those have usually roughly the same range (195-215° +/- a few °). I had spools of the same type but different color which behaved differently. Then there are glossy/sparkly or wood filaments which may have add-ons that alter the behavior. So testing is rather pointless. You may get a general idea (e.g. higher temp = better) but it may be different on the next print. To get consistent results you would have to stick with only a few types of filaments and colors, but what is the fun of that ;) I have settled with buying from more or less one brand which I know how that behaves from experience. And even then you have many variables. E.g: I had to replace the hotend a while ago. Even using exactly the same stock hotend I have used before I had to increase my printing temp by 10° to get the same results... 3dprinting is constant learning, tinkering and adapting...
2 жыл бұрын
Wow, the impact graph is weird and not at all what I expected...
@maximumdt5084
2 жыл бұрын
The bed adhesion graph was super interesting, going to change to 215 now.
@MosheKashani
2 жыл бұрын
I've defiantly experienced dimensional shifts when printing hotter. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with thermal expansion of the plastic while printing. Yes the mechanics are making the same moves and the extruder is pushing the same steps resulting in the same mass. (As others has mentioned pressure, mass would be something to look into.) But I think even with the same mass you can get different dimensions because hot parts will shrink more. Say a printer is accurately placing a 0.6mm line on the permitter of a part at 190c, when that part cools down to room temp it will have shrunken down to Xmm. Being less than 0.6mm. The same line *extruded to the same accuracy of 0.6mm* at say 230c, will shrink to Ymm at room temp. But Y will be less than X because Y had more temperature shrinkage, thus the part printed at 230 will have overall smaller dimensions.
@thatren7179
Жыл бұрын
I've been printing PLA at 190 like a mad man. I think i need to go back at print some calibration parts.
@RegularOldDan
2 жыл бұрын
I see someone mention thermal expansion/contraction as a possible reason for the thicker parts at lower temperatures (i.e. lower temps = less difference between the volume of plastic when it's hot vs. cold leading to slightly bigger parts). I would argue that wouldn't be the case due to the extrusion happening above the melt zone so, assuming all steps can complete, an equal amount would be extruded. However, I know that there might be skipped steps at lower temps. So it's even more counter-intuitive. That said, I wonder if die swell could be a factor? The more pressure you have to exert on a viscous plastic, the more die swell there might be? Just grasping at straws.
@cosmefulanito5933
2 жыл бұрын
The PLA we use in Argentina (3N3) is printed at lower temperatures. 215 degrees is actually almost too much. We print at 195-210 degrees on this material.
@yzkn8848
9 күн бұрын
filaments tend to puff when printed too cold because of internal stresses, especially when printed with 0.6 nozzle. im 2 years late to tell that but here you go
@brickstreasures
2 жыл бұрын
That was really a great video with all the tests to answer all the questions, thanks!
@Javierm0n0
5 ай бұрын
the only thing i can think of regarding the tolerance of the parts fitting into the jig is printing outside walls first or not. Beyond elephants foot I've noticed that printing from inside to outside can make a part fatter by.02-.3mm the other factors being the various temps involved and if enclosed or not.
@DustinGorman
2 жыл бұрын
Glad to see another video. Thanks for the great content as always!
@norvillesdingus3917
Жыл бұрын
I am happy to see that the 215° that I print at for PLA is in fact the best option. Although I do have some silk PLA that clogs my printer unless I print it at 225°.
@FrodeBergetonNilsen
2 жыл бұрын
I sort of missed out on the fan speed? Is that varied? I tend to print at higher temp for PETG, with like 70% fan speed. That improves bridging. Or at least, I think it does. At lower temps, there is a need for less fan speed on the cooling. Also, using a sock for a V6, the cooling fans is supposed to influence the hotend temp, as in actually not cooling the hot end as much. My point is, the other settings are not the same, if you vary the fan speed. The results will also vary insanely, correlating to print speed. I cannot print with that 70% cooling fan speed, at any high speed at all. Only snail speed. In my case, using a MK3, I prefer slow print speed, medium temp of 240C and fan at 70%, for PETG. If I were to change the temp, I would need to get to play with every setting again. Long post, but Thomas, I would love to get your input on what you think about fan cooling speed setting and print speed, for at given print temp for PETG. What to look for, as to increase print speed or not, and what effect the cooling fan would have. Then compare optimized results for each temp. Like PETG at 230, 240, and 250. There will be pros and cons all over the place, and there definitely will be something I have missed. Looking at the particular test in this video, I just go, "but I would never print like that". For lower temp, I would seriously decrease print speed and fan speed. Using a standard V6 with a sock, I tend to use higher temp and higher fan cooling, but that seriously disallows high print speeds, as in nothing sticks together at higher speeds, due to too much cooling an too poor of a heat end and the Nozzle X sure does not help in my case. (It cleans easily and lasts forever) Since I am rambling: Printing at a lower print speed, results in significant less wear on the printer. There is also far less noise. And if you care about noise, placing the printer on some IKEA plastic boxes made for storing food, just filled with sand, is insanely effective, and almost for free.
@mr.tarkovish2587
10 ай бұрын
Ok the hammer test was waaaaaaay to satisfying 🤣
@aronseptianto8142
2 жыл бұрын
i'm interested on how temperature correlate to print speed since PETG actually prints better at 250c, it'd be interesting if using a non-high flow nozzle, whether you can push the flow rate higher
@kilianlindlbauer8277
2 жыл бұрын
Should increase maximum flow. Once talked with a ender3 owner, she said, she cant print the pressure advance print for klipper, hotend cant keep up, told her to bump up the temperature, print was successful
@alejandroperez5368
2 жыл бұрын
250? It completely depends on your printer calibration and print speed...
@elvinhaak
2 жыл бұрын
If you use a lined hotend (PTFE inside) you get a clogg since deforming the PTFE at 250 degrees so resulting in slower printing after a short while. Been there, tested that out to find that out, so with those printers I stay only close to 240 degrees and printing a bit slower.
@aronseptianto8142
2 жыл бұрын
@@elvinhaak yeah same, did that for my ender, though I've heard that speed benchy ppl went higher temperature for higher flowrate
@StudioCreations
2 жыл бұрын
Great video. I’ve been printing PLA at 190 and 200, which by your tests is waaaaaay to low of a temp. I’ll modify my setting now! :)
@winandd8649
2 жыл бұрын
Note that every brand PLA can have it's own ideal printing temperature, so you're better off doing some test prints yourself I think. Printing at 190 is not too low for some brands PLA..
@Tome4kkkk
10 ай бұрын
4:30 On that note. Do you guys know of any videos discussing printer head clearance setup and tips. It's extremely clunky and confusing the way it's implemented in Cura.
@matneu27
2 жыл бұрын
Layer adhesion and the resulting mechanical stability also has to do with the material (manufacturer) itself. I played around with two silk looking Pla brands at different temperatures and fan speeds. At least the layer broke while bending too easy. Tried another brand and it worked to my full satisfaction. From these aspects I prefer rather yt videos which compare filament brands and which are free from sponsoring influence. Anyway in doubt I print an temperature tower which is included as template in SuperSlicer
@m0erphium969
2 жыл бұрын
Danke für die Aufklärung! I was trying around with different temperatures recently as well, but i ended up destroying All my results by switching way too often between PLA and PETG. This resulted is a big plug of solid filament in the cold section of my revo nozzle. What a pain in the b*** to remove that... Now i dedicate one Set of nozzles to PLA and one Set to PETG. At least this was something i learned during my Experiments.
@charlesmanning3454
2 жыл бұрын
Nicely done, almost perfect, add error bars and it would be even closer.
@RustCakes
Жыл бұрын
cool that u used the charpy v notch test
@bruceyoung1343
2 жыл бұрын
I tried my first roll of silk pla filament. The roll label said hot end temp 180-240. I very first went with 220 for a Oreo caddy. The printed subject on the bed appeared to have “bubbles”. After 20mins of a 11 hour I quit print. I started to print a temp tower at 220 first layer and same so I changed temp down to 210 and let it go few more mins. Not happy I gave up temporarily and packed roll away to try later
@ForcefighterX2
Жыл бұрын
I am using an out of the box Anycubic Kobra and printing PETG and PLA with identical flawless quality using the Kobra profile from Ultimaker Cura. I am using eSun PETG black and Anycubic's (noname?) PLA. I am new to 3D printing (just finished my first 1kg role of filament) and apparently this is a good result. So I wanted to share. 🙂
@yru2501
2 жыл бұрын
hotter layers have more time to shrink within second after deposition. Same thing can be observed on curves sometimes, when some perimeters just shrink away leaving gap.
@ChibiKami
2 жыл бұрын
generally I find Hatchbox PLA to print best at 10° above the listed minimum (so 190°C for the normal stuff, 220°C for matte). I get good flow and detail, and stringing can be reduced by enabling retraction for ~5mm
@studiogerk
2 жыл бұрын
The conclusion to me is that Prusa did a good job of testing their filaments on their hardware and setting appropriate defaults. Not a huge surprise and bravo for them doing that!
@elvinhaak
2 жыл бұрын
Well 'printing hotter=stronger' is inside limitations of course and then it is true. Especially while printing PETG (most of them) with a cheap printer with a PTFE-liner inside that can (or should) only go up to 240 degrees max. In that case, about the max. temp you can safely print (238 degrees or about 235) is giving the best strenght for both PETG and ABS on those printers. Also for many filaments that give a spectrum of temps, like 225 - 240 degrees. Most likely stronger at around that max of your printer or 240 degrees that is recommended by the factory. Of course still testing is needed per each filament and many times even each color...
@06madmartin
8 ай бұрын
my elagoo fillament pla in black says 205 - 230 but a tempreture tower produces best results at 190c i do first layer at 200 but that is quite different to manufactures recommendation. in short print a temp tower on every new fillament batch thats what i do anyway
@TylerLL2112
Жыл бұрын
Fantastic video. I appreciate the effort Thomas.
@HonZaTri
5 ай бұрын
Hehe :D In my country we have a saying "The dumbest farmer have the best potatoes". Totally applies here, the one who prints like "written on the box" have it best :).
@gamingwithsparton
2 жыл бұрын
I'd love to see an ABS and ASA test like this before I start printing my Voron parts lol
@mpark0
6 ай бұрын
Do you have plans for the impact tester setup you used? I like the simplicity of your tester. I'd like to build something similar to impact test with
@ericholliday7071
2 жыл бұрын
What you should check is the wall thickness as you go hotter which changes drastically and the speed at which you print because nozzle temp is a bit different then your descriptions let people believe but I'm printing petg at 270°c at 1500 acceleration now the acceleration is capable of holding the filament and using our backup pressure to print because its never staying inside the hotend long enough because the hotter your materials get the faster you need to print to remain stable but all you've done is change the temps and not the speeds so all that stringing and brittleness is from a lack of flow being instantly purged out which is also why your part didn't work which that being said contributes to TEMP X COOLING X SPEED = BACKUP PRESSURE THAT WE USE TO PRINT now imagine if your material is escaping too quickly to force a 0.45mm line width when running at 270°c at 30mm/s 🤔 the material is staying inside the hotend longer which makes it really 270°c which we do not want but if we print at 270°c and print faster this can be mitigated and gain full strength
@ericholliday7071
2 жыл бұрын
Or we can say if the force your slicer flow calibration was setup for a specific temp then that will be your best range for that temp vs any other but please feel free to run this test run petg at a faster rate of speed at 255°c and you'd see its about the maximum cooling the stocks could even handle and then the fact of your speed needs to be accurate aswell for the materials temp your running but my printer is maxed out at 270°c I cannot go any faster without forcing a skip to my system
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