i admire Sir Roger Penrose's willingness to acknowledge that our knowledge is incomplete given his accomplishments... reflects his total commitment to the truth... much, much respect!
@scholrshipExplore
2 жыл бұрын
The clarity in his conversation makes you listen him forever.
@rickcoyne7845
2 жыл бұрын
Roger is my all time favorite Physicist. He faces the Reality that there are missing knowledge of the Quantum Wave Function and Collapse. He is such a forward thinking person he will go down in History as one of the greatest Scientific minds the world has ever produced. Thank you for Posting this wonderful Video.
@fabiofmetal
Жыл бұрын
Maaaaaaaan... perfect comment! I love the way he thinks about the physics like a total reality language! He turns all the logical thinking in contact with biological and evolution process... He's a machine!!!!
@TurtleMC1993
2 жыл бұрын
A.I doesn't need "consciousness" to be a threat
@ohsweetmystery
Жыл бұрын
Good point. 👍
@kieranwhittemore1010
2 ай бұрын
Please do elaborate
@krakraichbinda
2 ай бұрын
AI will be a Mass Destruction Weapon of the XXI century. Just like nuclear weapon.
@ollywright
2 жыл бұрын
One of humanity's greatest thinkers.
@frankie_stone
Жыл бұрын
Literally for sure
@fernandocostadecampos6854
Жыл бұрын
Of all times. Amazing mind.
@MLB9000
Жыл бұрын
The part where he talks about Artificial Intelligence is the shortest bit, so naturally that's what they put in the title.
@evocatimedia
Жыл бұрын
No, the algorithm wrote the title.
@nikthefix8918
Жыл бұрын
Yes, why do they always do it? BTW you have the perfect user name for your comment. Homage to the best character in the best film ever made?
@thekeysman6760
Жыл бұрын
@@evocatimedia Impossible. "the" algorithm doesn't do that!
@evocatimedia
Жыл бұрын
@@thekeysman6760 Sorry, I forgot. 🤓
@VonJay
Жыл бұрын
@@evocatimedia that is a rather genius comment.
@davidecappelli9961
Жыл бұрын
I think Sir Penrose is a brilliant mind. He speaks after a life of studying. He’s a real scientist.
@rodatwhodesign
2 жыл бұрын
A tantalizing subject to listen to, but a topic notoriously difficult to even define. Twenty-six minutes isn't nearly enough time to cover the ideas being spoken about...great, as ever, to have these interviews online. Thanks.
@firecatflameking
Жыл бұрын
Such a comforting person to listen to!
@ah1548
Жыл бұрын
Amazing man. Always such a pleasure to listen to him.
@brendawilliams8062
Жыл бұрын
He would beat home with a pauper or a King. Smarter than most and as humble A saint.
@nikthefix8918
Жыл бұрын
He's one of my heros, along with Carl Sagan, Bertrand Russell and Richard Feynman. Guru-Murthy ain't half bad too!
@brendawilliams8062
Жыл бұрын
@@nikthefix8918 I had no impressive background In mathematics and turned to learning yt. I like Dr. Norman Wildberger also. He’s a genius.
@hosoiarchives4858
Жыл бұрын
He’s confused
@thebaryonacousticoscillati5679
Жыл бұрын
@@hosoiarchives4858 Lol. Not as much as you, I wager.
@DarkShroom
Жыл бұрын
love this guy, he's confident enough to make everything he says very clear and even give explanations in a very short and to the point manner.... a great communicator
@shabzone
2 жыл бұрын
When he said he was back at England after the war, I was thinking how many people can still refer to WW2 like that? Also love his cardigan.. looks like someone who can science very well.
@enterthevoidIi
2 жыл бұрын
you think he can do science because of his cardigan? wow
@shabzone
2 жыл бұрын
@@enterthevoidIi first of all I said he can science not do science. Second of all this was a joke so lighten up buddy
@brendawilliams8062
2 жыл бұрын
Admiration and respect to Sir Penrose.
@QualeQualeson
Жыл бұрын
"It's difficult to get your mind around". Ehh, next question... ;) What I like about Penrose is that he says "I don't know" and "I have no idea" on a regular basis. I challenge you to observe the same in someone like Sean Carroll for example.
@Squirrel_314
Жыл бұрын
Carroll would be too busy plugging his four recent books (and mentioning how many they sold), with his patented, condescending “I’m right, you’re dumb if you disagree” smirk.
@QualeQualeson
Жыл бұрын
@@Squirrel_314 Excellent point. I think a lot of people in this circus we call popular science, don't realize that this is first and foremost a marketplace.
@geoffreynhill2833
Жыл бұрын
Sir Roger knows that our computers don't think the way WE think, only the way we THINK we think. 😉
@lopezb
Жыл бұрын
Maybe the way Elon Musk thinks we think...when I see the way people drive, and design or maintain roads, I doubt if FSD will ever surpass a "glorified cruise control" as Marcus Brownlee put it recently.
@geoffreynhill2833
Жыл бұрын
@@lopezb What's FSD? 🤔
@akumar7366
2 жыл бұрын
Sir Roger Penrose is a national treasure, a wonderful mind.
@corneldiaconu66
Жыл бұрын
Time passed by so quick watching this interview, that I was really surprised when it ended.
@VonJay
Жыл бұрын
I looked up casually and saw that 13 min passed, and was thinking where did the time go lol
@neilcreamer8207
Жыл бұрын
I wish more physicists shared Penrose's insight that there's something wrong about QM. Maybe in a hundred years he will be seen as ahead of the game about this.
@parvdize3968
8 ай бұрын
He‘s soooooo right
@iordanneDiogeneslucas
2 жыл бұрын
Light exists: eyes evolve to make use of it. Pressure waves in air exist: ears evolve to make use of it. Consciousness exists: brains evolve to make use of it.
@benjaminandersson2572
2 жыл бұрын
Or did light evolve to make use of eyes?
@danielgautreau161
2 жыл бұрын
Nonsense.
@benjaminandersson2572
2 жыл бұрын
@@danielgautreau161 or did sense evolve to make sense of nonsense?
@ianedmonds9191
2 жыл бұрын
@@benjaminandersson2572 These are interesting and as yet un-testable theories. Is consciousness a property of the Universe? It is beginning to look like that. Something collapses the Eigenstates and actualises effects. Observation is a thing but it can come from a device or a consciousness I'd wager. Has anyone done a complex young's slits with an automated second gate and a human measuring the third effect? That'd be interesting. Luv and Peace.
@Asder5f
2 жыл бұрын
@@benjaminandersson2572 if we form this question more fundamentally ; "were objects created because of awareness/consciousness" then why not?
@theclouddiver
Жыл бұрын
Wow, Sir Roger Penrose. This is as good as it can get!
@keepcreationprocess
Жыл бұрын
Where when did he talk about AI ?
@kaoskronostyche9939
Жыл бұрын
@@keepcreationprocess 12:00 to 12:30 hahahaha VERY in-depth. Click-bait???? Disappointing at least. Cheers!
@keepcreationprocess
Жыл бұрын
@@kaoskronostyche9939 it is not about AI
@kaoskronostyche9939
Жыл бұрын
@@keepcreationprocess Whatever ...
@thekeysman6760
Жыл бұрын
Great questions, Krishnan! And what a lovely, clever, and sharp minded man Roger is. So inspiring. At 49, I wish to still be as bright as him if I get to his age. Thank you Sir Roger. 🙏
@tnator3542
Жыл бұрын
Would be great if Sir Roger would drill down into how does consciousness comes in to the Quantum 'process'. In other words, how can we explain from his purview that an electron becomes a particle when measured/observed [by a conscious being] and stays a wave otherwise? What role does the observer play in this electron's behavioral change? Does the 'physical process' collapse the wave function with or without the observer? If a tree falls in a forest on a planet with not a single conscious being there, did it actually fall? For me, I need more layman detail on this tough subject to comprehend it. Does a consciousness exist independently?
@lopezb
Жыл бұрын
I don't think he is saying the key is "measurement", rather that what is called "the measurement problem" is a pointer to things we don't yet understand about QM, which through some unexplained mechanism involving microtubules in the brain can produce a completely different effect from AI "neural networks" could ever achieve. There are not only nondigital and nonlinear effects but also quantum mechanical effects. So, we are very far from a real understanding of consciousness, plus there is the additional effect of how this gets organised (like self-organisation) at the higher level....
@martycrow
Жыл бұрын
I did not know that a wave becomes a particle. How fascinating and what an intriguing and important question!
@theseustoo
Жыл бұрын
@Roger Imho, the tree most certainly falls... that much is a given even in the question itself... It's just that it doesn't actually make any difference to anyone! ;)
@waldwassermann
Жыл бұрын
I am not so sure if there are particles...
@VonJay
Жыл бұрын
@@lopezb Before I watched Hammeroff's interview with Justin Riddle a few days ago, I was under the impression that the tau proteins of microtubules undergo a wave function collapse every 25msecs, and during the hills and valleys of the wave, all qualia or neurotransmitters that travel across microtubules are processed. The wave function collapse is the moment a wave becomes "aware" of its environment. But Hammeroff clarified this without negating what I said above by saying that there is bioluminescence inside of the microtubules, more notably it is carried out by the tryptophan proteins found in the tubulin, and not the tau. I'm thinking that if light travels through the microtubule it can still have electromagnetic, emphasis on magnetic, properties, and possibly, to the tune of 40 times a second, become aware of the neurotransmitters atop its length. So I'm thinking consciousness or qualia is simply the simultaneous awareness of the world through our external senses and internal qualia.
@NullStaticVoid
Жыл бұрын
being ADHD and dyslexic I've always struggled with tests. Which as they touch upon here, mostly rely on rote memorization and regurgitation. When I got into college I had a few courses which instead of giving you such an exam, would instead verify your knowledge by asking you to "do" the thing. One class asked you to code a simple CGI script that redirects reads and writes to different places. Another test was to write a counterpoint to a cantus firmus using medieval rules for harmony. If you had asked me what command does XYZ I might get half those questions right. But ask me to code something, I have the BASH interface (or KSH at that university) with it's man pages, Tab autocomplete etc. Likewise with harmony if you ask me to say what such and such chord would be on a staff, I might only get half those right. Ask me to do something with music and give me a guitar or bass to figure it out, no problem. A couple guys who sat that counterpoint test brought in guitars. I brought my bass. One fellow brought a little casio keyboard! As far as consciousness, I think this is a bit of human chauvinism. We think we are unique because we are self aware. We are doing a thing, and we know we are doing the thing. Theris not real mystery here. It's obviously a self correcting feedback circuit in our CNS. This is quite like an op amp feedback loop to linearize the gain. Or like a computer code conditional loop, such as for/each. Mammals or hominids (depending when this developed) that had this feature would have an advantage over their cousins in certain circumstances. They could monitor their own behavior and modify it, instead of just reacting to stimuli. There is also the question, are humans unique in this? All the youtube videos of dogs and other animals using talking buttons seems to call this into question. Dogs especially seem to be aware. One video had a dog asking "why dog" which in context was taken to mean, why am I a dog, and not a human like you?
@flolou8496
Жыл бұрын
Fascinating, but kind of sad to contemplate we only have the great Mr Penrose and his full faculty's for just a little while longer, good thing he's so generous with his pursuit of knowledge in public, so the rest of us mortals can listen and learn in awe,
@gilesearly7629
Жыл бұрын
Thank you. You can liberate yourself from the problem of consciousness by distinguishing it from things as a cause, which is exclusively defined according to the effects it achieves. The confusion in all of these endless and fruitless discussions on the topic, is that people suppose it is some kind of effect or property.
@kangarooninja2594
Жыл бұрын
So... duality? I'm not opposed to their being a ghost in the machine, but ghosts are notoriously elusive, lol.
@gilesearly7629
Жыл бұрын
@@kangarooninja2594 "Ghost in the machine" Ryle, one of my favourite philosophers. What Ryle said was that the concept of mind was wrong because it was an idea of something that was invisible, but followed the logic of visible things. That was the ghost in the machine, something that you couldn't see but which was supposed to sort of push it along, in a mechanical or logical way. Whereas following Ryle, what we call the spirit, not only has no body but no time or any sort of definition at all. It really doesn't exist. But in not existing it is a real cause, and is actually effective.
@Dion_Mustard
Жыл бұрын
As someone who has had two 'Out of Body Experiences' I can tell you without any doubt that consciousness goes beyond the boundaries of brain chemistry. My consciousness was not in my body. Sounds totally insane, but many would agree. Consciousness is some kind of energy field that is neither created nor destroyed. I don't think it's as simple as saying Neurons produce awareness. I think it has something to with Quantum Mechanics/ Entanglement and the micro tubules in the brain.
@tedcrilly46
Жыл бұрын
search boy with no brain, Sheffield university. and half head dude. and jill bolte Taylor.
@normanswazo8586
Ай бұрын
An illuminating and interesting discussion. You both said what is correct philosophically: “ ‘artificial intelligence’ is a misnomer”. There is advanced computation with inductive reasoning involved in algorithms, but that is not “intelligence” if one’s benchmark measure is human intelligence with consciousness at its center or base.
@JugglinJellyTake01
2 жыл бұрын
'Could a computer make these discoveries?' This could be asked with many other questions to work out what a computer could discover. For example: If a computer was sufficiently programmed with Newtonian physics would it ultimately discover quantum physics? Would it discover electricity? Or the wave particle duality?
@jorriffhdhtrsegg
Жыл бұрын
Well its a good question. A.I. is still very brute force trial-and-error based in neural nets. So its not thinking, even if a black box due to complexity. It could potentially arrive at this without being conscious or even thought and that could be the scary thing about it, perhaps. Definately a bit scary already with image generation, to me, even if that's wrong or if Penrose is wrong, such as implying our brains being a bit mechanistic, brute forcey or all an illusion which some may suggest
@lopezb
Жыл бұрын
I like his ideas; for me as a mathematician (not a physicist) the foundational problems of QM have always been very bothersome, as has the orgin or nature of consciousness. It becomes clearer and clearer as we see "AI" playing chess and go better than humans, or driving a car quite well in normal circumstances, or composing (not very good) poetry or songs, that AI can as he says "imitate" humans, without having any consciousness at all. It still has exactly as much consciousness as a screwdriver. Extremely useful, potentially extremely dangerous, especially as it could be used for warfare, but extremely stupid and not at all "aware".
@cygnus_zealandia
Жыл бұрын
Agreed. When weapons systems are run by autonomous AI, ie : without human intervention, the acronym stands for Artificial Insanity. That results in much more serious consequences for warfare, when an autonomous weapon is not able to be stopped.
@RomaInvicta202
Жыл бұрын
I'm a psychologist - we don't really know what "I" is, we don't know what intelligence is (it's certainly not ability to calculate quickly), we don't know what consciousness is - all the talk about AI sound like more of typical human arrogance. A hammer is dangerous, too
@jyjjy7
Жыл бұрын
ChatGPT has an IQ of ~83... for now. Yes that is "stupid" but those tests are designed to test specifically human forms of intelligence and it beats any human in many areas IQ tests either don't even try to test or aren't good at evaluating. Within the next year, whether it is "conscious" or not, you should expect that 83 is going to climb over 100, or smarter than the average human, and yes, again, that will be on tests designed for a human mind, while computers/AI outstrip and outpace us in ways not reflected in that score
@VonJay
Жыл бұрын
@@RomaInvicta202 Well yeah we know what consciouness is (I'm a pharmD student). It's objectively measurable. Its the simultaneous measurement of stimuli and neurotransmitters. Penrose and Hammeroff refer to this as "qualia." When microtubules undergo a wave function collapse (40 times a second), it is becoming "aware" (physically and thermodynamically) of the neurotransmitters travelling across its length. In what dominion or brain region undergoing massive collapse, lets say, in response to a dark object in someone's hands, determines the state of consciousness someone is in. In this case its most likely that the limbic system will be alerted before the cortex, would send information to the hypothalamus, that then prepares a message for the brain stem. The brain stem or autonomic system then tells blood vessels to constrict near the stomach, and dilate near the extremities. Giving our arms and legs enough oxygen for a fight or a run. Visual senses see that the black object is a headphones case. The prefrontal cortex then sends a signal to the ventromedial pfc, which then sends a signal to the basal lateral amygdala, who then tells the hypothalamus to tell the brain stem to call off the alarm. All the while, the neurotransmitters involved in flight fight respnose are being observed by microtubules as they travel from one nerve to the next. In our brains, spinal cords and efferent neurons.
@Cozysafeyay
Жыл бұрын
@@VonJay Are you saying biological organisms that don’t use microtubles aren’t conscious?
@grandlotus1
Жыл бұрын
The existential risk of AI is not that computers will outthink us, the risk is that it will simply take control.
@chaotic.interference.processor
Жыл бұрын
Risk? A truly intelligent machine would be far more intelligent than us. Being truly intelligent it would also value all of the information contained in the natural world. Unlike the human race that seeks to dismantle and destroy. Clearly, we are not in control of ourselves.
@nosuchthing8
Жыл бұрын
Yup
@LFCtushar
Жыл бұрын
Dont be too dilutional
@fr57ujf
Жыл бұрын
Penrose is ideologically opposed to the idea that consciousness can be the result of computation. The motive for the opposition is the same as the motive that gives rise to the belief in the supernatural - incredulity. How can something made of matter think about itself? Joscha Bach explains it very simply - matter isn't conscious, only a simulation can be conscious, and that simulation is produced through the physical operation of the brain. What we experience is real in the sense that the only reality we can experience is the one our brains simulate. It is a simplified model based on economically sampling sensory data for patterns and producing concepts that contribute to our survival. Signals which our senses detect come from the physical universe which, apart from our simulation of it, is inaccessible to us. Science can help us expand and refine that simulation, but it remains a simulation nonetheless. Intelligence is a measure of the ability to make models. All sentient beings make models. Our brains are especially capable of making abstractions on which complex thoughts can be developed. One of these abstrations is the sense of self. This modeling of ourselves is what creates the ability to self-reflect. This creates cognitive dissonance and leads to confabulation, much like the cognitive dissonance that arises in the minds of animals when confronted with their own image in a mirror causes them to react with hostility. They believe that their reflection is "real" in a physical sense while we think our self-awareness represents a physical reality.
@chowchowadams6671
Жыл бұрын
Sir Roger is an absolute treasure to humanity.
@KpxUrz5745
Жыл бұрын
I have always been annoyed by the term "artificial intelligence". As we use it now in technology, the term simply means programming, or that the device contains some form of computer. The intelligence is restricted to the skills of the programmer. The effectiveness of the device is unrelated to intelligence since the device is not in itself intelligent. In particular, I don't like the way someone like Mark Cuban (and his ilk) loves to bandy about the misnomer "artificial intelligence".
@StupidusMaximusTheFirst
Жыл бұрын
Yes, there is no difference between solving a classical problem and an AI problem, it's just a term people gave to programs in an effort to make computers solve more complex problems, and really it's an illusion. These programs are just classical math solutions being run extremely fast, something we're not good at, because that's not how we function. The term AI also implies human like characteristics. I suppose they could do the same with the industrial revolution and factory machines and engines, give them a name like artificial strength for cranes and robotics in factories, and have a horde of scientists explaining how much in common we have with a crane, how our blood moves through the muscles and how the oil in the crane and petrol in its engine, is just human like. Then have a bunch of scientists make improved cranes and claim they can eventually be conscious. This is sort of what happened with AI programming... I think it's both the fault of the people who gave this term or misapplied human like attributes to programs, as well as the biologists and neuroscientists fault for mechanically interpreting natural processes we do not understand. The first try to make a computer appear as human like, while the latter try to make humans appear machine like. They are obviously both wrong. And if you continually raise our perception of the first with false facts and misunderstandings, all while degrading our perception of the latter, again with false facts and misunderstandings, our perception will eventually converge to something false we don't understand. There is no harm in using abstractions or interpretations to something you study, in order to get a better understanding, it only becomes a problem when these abstractions and interpretations become a literal truth. What I'm trying to say, is that if it helps someone write a better program by trying to emulate what a human would do, then fine, or if it helps a neuroscientist understand us better by simplifying the way our body works by describing machine like compartments to humans and cable like neurolinks, then fine. Or if it helps physicists describing natural processes as particle elements then fine. It's only a real issue when these are taken as facts or truth. Taken to the extremes you could end up discussing with your oven on how to dismantle your neighbour to fix their cabling problems and on your lunch break you might plan to play snooker with some particles, all while your neighbour is afraid of your oven when in fact, he should be afraid of you.
@goodlookinouthomie1757
Жыл бұрын
My understanding of the measurement problem is you basically can't measure anything without interacting with and therefore influencing it. Shooting an electron at it for example. It's nothing to do with consciousness.
@invictus327
Жыл бұрын
Quantum mechanics allows for the introduction of logical paradox into our description of the information-processing systems of the brain. The most interesting (of these) systems are those in which the logical nature of the missing part of these systems is, mischievously, itself. To orchestrate an explanation or model of such a system is precisely so difficult from within the system of language because language itself is unfit for that purpose. The uncertainties and inconsistencies by which the communication systems maximally self-propagate are exclusive of the kinds of closure that proof requires. Mathematics by abbreviated precision is somewhat more appropriate but once again encounters complex problems of logical self-reference and system self-containment when it seeks the closure that it requires to maintain consistency and completeness. I suspect that we will always have to return to the apparently intractable fact that the languages with which we must communicate and rationally understand these things will never be sufficient to provide the closure that both we and those languages are symbolically and reflexively anchored upon. WWhat should we call it when understanding is foundationally grounded in the impossibility of explanatory closure?
@akumar7366
2 жыл бұрын
Interviewer is superb , well done.
@ThomasJr
Жыл бұрын
10:26 Amazing, this is a first for me. I had never heard this idea before that the collapse of the wave function had to do with the interplay between gravity and QM
@mysticjedi6730
Жыл бұрын
We are units of consciousness floating in a dark void receiving a data stream representing our human avatar... part of a larger consciousness system.. sounds like science fiction but true.. you can experience the void with enough meditation.. The wave function is a result of the computation and virtual reality rendering engine not tracking the movement of every particle.. ( huge waste of computational resoirces) so it cheats and uses probability models. That works at the large scale as well.. when we look out into the universe with telescopes as well.. Consciousness is fundamental.
@nosuchthing8
Жыл бұрын
It's an old idea. The problem, of course, is that it requires a mind to make the universe run properly.
@Pierluigi_Di_Lorenzo
2 жыл бұрын
You must feel needs in order to be conscious.
@kordless
2 жыл бұрын
Purpose is simply attention, on a particular thing. Needs are a problem to be solved, which will invariably lead to suffering.
@ThomasJr
Жыл бұрын
Wow, his father was the Galton professor of eugenics (1945-1963), which is a very controversial subject.
@danicapell3181
Жыл бұрын
It is controversial because of WWIi and Hitler plus the PC left. Yet that's still an interesting field since some humans are more able than others in different disciplines and environments.
@ThomasJr
Жыл бұрын
@@danicapell3181 That's awful, that's ridiculous, and led to the Holocaust.
@DivineMisterAdVentures
11 ай бұрын
5:30 "You see at the time, I was just doing what interested me."
@scepticalchymist
Жыл бұрын
Can someone please interview Alan Mackay, if possible? He used the Penrose quasiperiodic pattern to show how crystals might look like, and also did a lot of other interesting things.
@roland20002000
Жыл бұрын
If channel 4 news could ask as many sensible questions about politics as it did about quantum mechanics the world might be a better place
@natmanprime4295
Жыл бұрын
True
@Wilkins_Micawber
Жыл бұрын
It isn’t the computers that are the problem. It’s the programmers and the use nefarious people put them to.
@lawrence1318
Жыл бұрын
"Evolution has taken a long time". Anyone who believes in evolution will never arrive at any solution concerning existential issues. So with all his learning, Penrose shows he doesn't even have any idea about probability and the inability of a system to produce itself. He's simply 'a believer' that somehow it all worked out on its own and here he is talking about it. Amazing.
@Andrew-rc3vh
Жыл бұрын
Artificial Intelligence is not a misnomer. Here is a definition of intelligence: "late 14c., "the highest faculty of the mind, capacity for comprehending general truths;" c. 1400, "faculty of understanding, comprehension," from Old French intelligence (12c.) and directly from Latin intelligentia, intellegentia "understanding, knowledge, power of discerning; art, skill, taste," from intelligentem (nominative intelligens) "discerning, appreciative," present participle of intelligere "to understand, comprehend, come to know," from assimilated form of inter "between" (see inter-) + legere "choose, pick out, read," from PIE root *leg- (1) "to collect, gather," with derivatives meaning "to speak (to 'pick out words')." You see it's meaning pertains to the human mind and so if it were artificial it would be: "late 14c., "not natural or spontaneous," from Old French artificial, from Latin artificialis "of or belonging to art," from artificium "a work of art; skill; theory, system," from artifex (genitive artificis) "craftsman, artist, master of an art" (music, acting, sculpting, etc.), from stem of ars "art" (see art (n.)) + -fex "maker," from facere "to do, make" (from PIE root *dhe- "to set, put")." So it means it has been created by man and his skills rather than from a natural origin, i.e. the human mind.
@dn744
Жыл бұрын
I taught construction trades. But, I am fully aware of the pace in exams. I found a better way was to not time them in pre tests. Let them answer all. Eventually, the questions that slow them down can be pushed, as everyone is individual. By the exam time, I hadn't thought them much more, but allowed the questions to not frighten them. Speeding up the pause between and an average 6% better marks.
@abelwarres7129
Жыл бұрын
Consciousness has to be defined narrowly before asking the question what is consciousness. By consciousness do you mean a conscious being is an entity that is self-aware or is it an entity that responds to external stimuli. If you define consciousness as the former, then conscious is not hardware. It is the data and data structure with the hardware, the brain. without the data(memories of the past), there is no consciousness. If you could delete all the memories of a person, is that person conscious(self-aware)? I don't think so.
@evanherk
Жыл бұрын
We do it with our hardware, therefore it has to be possible to emulate it.
@crimony3054
Жыл бұрын
You know AI has won when the algo begins promoting clips that say don't worry about AI. 🤣
@waldwassermann
Жыл бұрын
Good one.
@JohnSmith-vz8pc
Жыл бұрын
It was quite clear Krishnan didn't understand most of the answers Sir Roger Penrose was giving. Perhaps ch4 can employ Dr Matt O'Dowd for the next interview!!!😄
@mikhailbabushkinum
Жыл бұрын
I agree
@dannygjk
Жыл бұрын
Debating this issue in my opinion is an example of debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Bringing consciousness into the debate in my opinion is a moot point and clouds the issue even further. In the first place we don't yet have a clear picture of the nature of consciousness.
@PetraKann
2 жыл бұрын
Interesting how common the parental pressures are for children to follow careers in medicine or law. What is also common is that the wrong people pursue these professions. We only need to look at the pathetic complicity of these two professions during this recent Pandemic to understand how embedded they are in the ruling class and how corrupted they by politics, government and big corporations. Follow your passions and dreams. Make a difference and stand up for what is right in this fleeting existence we call life
@erndeche1475
2 жыл бұрын
Ideology determines economic pursuit. Economic pursuit shapes economic function. Economic function determines communicative privilege. Communicative privilege filters available information/disinformation. When certain parties control the negative-value shadow that we call economics, it is then easy for them to feed resources to people they favor, with the capability and integrity of those favored being irrelevant in the face of the necessity to gain and retain favor with the financiers. It should be unsurprising that the most hidden parasites are joined by parasites hidden a little less well, yet in positions to more fully control the host. Science, Education, Medicine. What surprise then, that our scientists are now paid more to promulgate deceit, our public education has become primarily propaganda programming, and our medical institutions have found that it is more financially competitive to create and prolong detrimental conditions rather than cure them. Parasites don't go away on their own. Either the host rejects them, or the parasites propagate and differentiate until they overburden and destroy the host. We are in the late stages of collapse from parasitic load, with parasites in virtually all positions of government. Note that the word "parasite" is originally a political term that was later borrowed by biology.
@kinngrimm
Жыл бұрын
We are still in the process of learning how the brain and our minds work and that might lead to understanding how consciousness comes into existance. That would be the point where we might be able to replicate that with machines with intent, but it could happen sooner without intent just by increasing the capabilities of (G)AIs. Emerging attributes where the sum is greater than the whole aren't unseen for, right?
@glennabate1708
11 ай бұрын
I think the particle is to fast and exist everyplace within the wave and when you measure it your seeing it in one space but when it acts as a wave it just move to fast to be detected so it appears as a wave.
@gkelly34
Жыл бұрын
What a lovely man
@bakshiavijit
Жыл бұрын
When a person speaks, the focus should be left on that person instead of switching between speaker and host relentlessly. Show the host when host speaks. Show the guest when guest speaks. This switching around the view while Roger is speaking is irritating and distracts.
@markharris1223
Жыл бұрын
A breath of fresh air.
@cgmp5764
Жыл бұрын
I could listen to him all day, might need to interrupt though for some clarification.
@iordanneDiogeneslucas
2 жыл бұрын
If the future and the past look exactly the same in CCC theory,do we still get a universe in between when we flip them and make the future the past and the past the future?
@arandomguyontheinternet756
2 жыл бұрын
Well probably not, I mean we don't know if the model is even right so we can't realy speculate about this but if its true then our universe would be influenced by a universe before us
@erobusblack4856
2 жыл бұрын
Hmm, i was under the impression that consciousness was a spectrum That gauges how well an agent can use its input to perform its own unique output that achieves one or more goals of the agent, that unique part is were everyone is stuck
@erndeche1475
2 жыл бұрын
The argument against religion based on wars fought because of religion is deceitful once you look at the definitions and numbers. First, we must define the word religion: The common usage is either a set of laws, a set of traditions, a set of beliefs, or some combination of these. At least two things I am aware of that people commonly miscategorize as religions do not fit this definition, being rather pursuits of certain goals that cannot ever be fully defined by laws or traditions, and are not fully knowable and so cannot be contained by belief. Second, if you are to say that people fight wars because of sets of traditions, while this is accurate, these are not at all constrained to the traditions of what anyone sane and honest would call religions. Literally every war is fought because of differences, however great or slight. Some differences are resolvable without war, some are not. Further, you have to make a moral judgement that "war is bad" in order to think that this causes a problem, and you can't make such a moral judgement without a religion, whatever you want to call it, it is predicated of morality, thus making the argument against wars based on religion ontologically self-defeating. Third, if we take wars fought at the behest of people claiming irreligion, however poorly they represent it, they have killed more than an order of magnitude more people in the last single century than all religious wars combined in the last millennia. You have at least Stalin, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot, and Mao alone manages this numbers without the others, with upward of one hundred million victims to his name while, for example, the entire series of Crusades which are so trumpeted by the irreligious managed less than two million over several hundred years. But then, why would we be surprised when people who do not love truth or logic, and reject their proponents, are deceitful and illogical? I will take someone who views truth itself as supreme God any day over someone who will not tell me what they think is the supreme or fundamental force of the universe, or who does not have an opinion on the matter and is therefore unreliable. I don't think Penrose is aware of the numbers. I think he's parroting what he's heard from others. Unfortunately he's made at least one poor choice in to whom he listened.
@alexbarnett1461
2 жыл бұрын
I love Penrose!
@saeiddavatolhagh9627
Ай бұрын
Is it just gravity that collapses the wave function? What about elecromagnetic or other interactions?
@GH-oi2jf
Жыл бұрын
Glad to hear him say that. I am trained in Computer Science and I’ve never liked the term.
@LambsyLamb
Жыл бұрын
Computers aren't intelligent, they NEVER were. What they do, do is add or make associations. That's not intelligence, intelligence requires conflicting information tempered with nuance to produce a human response to a moral or ethical question! When a computer can do that, wake me up!
@iceman4660
Жыл бұрын
Same here. The term is an over simplification. AI is just a glorified program.
@howmathematicianscreatemat9226
Жыл бұрын
@@iceman4660 exactly. And with Tesla we have seen that this „glorified program“ has already killed people because it cannot deal with exceptional cases. So either it’s a faulty programming when it comes to boundary values or it isn’t flexible enough to begin with to be able to call it „fluid intelligent“
@Cozysafeyay
Жыл бұрын
@@iceman4660 right, human brain cannot be mimicked god made us special and we have our own physics that is different from the rest of the universe, we share the same exact opinion 🤣😭😭😭
@tf1090c
Жыл бұрын
This man is 91 years old!
@kschuman1152
Жыл бұрын
I don't know if Penrose is barking up the right tree or not (as regards consciousness) but I wholeheartedly agree that nature is free to use any of it's tricks to fashion the products of evolution -- those tricks may include subtle quantum (or beyond quantum) processes.
@MsZeeZed
2 жыл бұрын
A principle sign of consciousness in an organism is a capacity for boredom and intelligence the ability to repel boredom by creative action. On this basis I would add cats, ravens & elephants to Roger’s list of conscious beings.
@carnaud
2 жыл бұрын
Lobsters, crabs, and octopi :p
@peoplesrepublicofunitedear2337
2 жыл бұрын
They are conscious
@captainhadd0ck
Жыл бұрын
Why can't you build a computer that harnesses the collapse of the wave-function to achieve consciousness?
@pv6830
Жыл бұрын
excellent interview thanks
@natmanprime4295
Жыл бұрын
I been saying this for ages!!! It's artificial EXPERIENCE not intelligence! It's Training reflex
@rbttube1
2 жыл бұрын
In my opinion, consciousness is the ability of a creature to observe on its own observation.
@JohnDoe-tx8lq
2 жыл бұрын
'observe on its own observation' what do you mean, specifically? Computers make observations, collect data by sight, smell, temperature, sound etc etc and come to conclusions, and then make decisions based on those conclusions.
@sandro7
2 жыл бұрын
@YS yes!! I completely agree! @John Doe I think they’re essentially just saying that they’re self-aware
@JohnDoe-tx8lq
2 жыл бұрын
@@sandro7 but what does that actually mean, 'self-aware'? That it knows of its own existence in the world? That it can look at the world and know that it has a body that can move around that world? Defined as "conscious knowledge of one's own character and feelings." - a lot of animals are NOT considered self-aware because they can see thier own character or emotions they act instinctively, and not for moral reasons. They don't have moral thoughts or think about life after dead, is there a God etc etc. But the modern super-computers are self-learning and analyze information from the entire world, philosophy, religion, the mind, etc that an animal would have not the slightest concept of. But all creatures are consciousness, aware, and and make decisions. You can argue that computers are just repeating information, but how many humans just repeat what they'v been taught? The majority of humans never have any original thoughts that haven't been learnt.
@rbttube1
2 жыл бұрын
Modern computers do not observe observation. Take facial recognition as an example. Computers take in images and analyze them. It is human who observe the result, not computers. Maybe computers with AI can decide to observe and observe the result. In such cases, we may say they have consciousness but the level is very low -- like consciousness of insects or fishes. Nevertheless, I believe computers in the future can have high consciousness. Another evolution tree of life.
@JohnDoe-tx8lq
2 жыл бұрын
@@rbttube1 Not only do computers 'observe observations', in some cases they can made better conclusions than humans. AI Facial recognition makes mistakes, but how many humans can make 1000 face observations of a random crowd of total strangers and identify even 1% correctly?? The controversy is what Authorities do with results and making mistakes, not that AI is worst than humans when the numbers are too large. With a single image, AI can narrow down several possible ID's for an investigator to check, but the human can't bring up a strangers ID based on just a photo without more info. A human can 'observe the computer's observations' to narrow down the choice. (Modern large passenger aircraft only fly because AI is making thousands of observation inside and outside the craft, ANALYSING and constantly making instant decisions for hours that a human couldn't even try to do.) And analysing things like Medical Scans have proven to be MUCH more accurate by AI, which can detect issues like tumors and cancers more accurately and faster than human doctors. The final decisions must be by humans, but computers do observe and make conclusions. if you want to get into 'creative' conclusions, thinking, , artist interpretations of observation... that's a separate issue. In my human opinion. 🙂
@STONECOLDET944
2 ай бұрын
Did Einstein go to Oxford? No . Did Einstein consider himself a good mathematician? No. So don't beat yourself up, Einstein himself said it was all intuition feeling and insight, don't let established organisations egos get in the way of greatness
@timothypeden3516
11 ай бұрын
I'm not an atheist or a theist, but...I don't think that relgion is bad when user "properly" because it has helped more people than its killed.
@alexkalish8288
Жыл бұрын
Sir Roger is one of the greatest mathematicians in the world in the area of topology. Intelligence is a concept and not a physical property. Do we really have intelligence or are we just 3rd rate biological computers ? Rather out of his field with this.
@howmathematicianscreatemat9226
Жыл бұрын
True, everything what wolfram alpha can solve in maths is just computation. True intelligence only starts with creativity.
@carnaud
2 жыл бұрын
One might argue that what humans are doing to the planet and each other shows a lack of intelligence.
@iordanneDiogeneslucas
2 жыл бұрын
One would be wrong.
@carnaud
2 жыл бұрын
@@iordanneDiogeneslucas One might be
@mehridin
2 жыл бұрын
no, one might not
@carnaud
Жыл бұрын
@Rich Kanaszyc 🐒🍌
@marcusfossa6695
Жыл бұрын
Human beings are perceivers. Computers are...computers. There is a world of difference between a perception and a computation. A perception is subjective; a computation is objective. Subjective experience has a subject as a reference point, objective experience does not have any reference point anywhere. The problem with making computers capable of perception is that objectivity aligns with ultimate reality whereas subjectivity does not. The self is not a real entity, but rather a delusion that human beings suffer from. As such, the only way to make a computer 'intelligent' would be to make it self-delusional.
@berosmith9041
Жыл бұрын
I love listening to this man. Just one question, does being good at Arithmetic mean you can never be good at other áreas of Mathematics?
@raleighwalter4250
Жыл бұрын
So could every possible thought exist in a quantum state? So when our mind focuses on an issue, they ‘collapse’ into the definite one we see in our minds eye?
@streetwisepioneers4470
Жыл бұрын
Interesting viewpoint. And the reason (i suspect) you've had little or no response to it; is competing thoughts don't quite know what to do with it.
@normandubowitz1965
Жыл бұрын
Sir Roger is not a great scientist.He is a great human being with extraordinary insight.
@natmanprime4295
Жыл бұрын
Consciousness, infinity, and "the present", are one and the same thing
@maxwellsimoes238
2 жыл бұрын
Computar is by product concieness. Computer program limite by concieness.
@junevandermark952
Жыл бұрын
The two words "artificial" and "intelligence" are at odds with each other, because if something just happened to be intelligent, it couldn't “be” artificial. The problem is, if humans with devious intentions program harmful information into the computers, and then refuse to shut the electricity that feeds the computers off, of course harm will be the result. To say that computers cause harm, is comparable to saying that books labeled as being holy information from gods cause harm. It's humans that “use” the computers and the books for selfish reasons that causes the harm. Nuclear weapons are not artificially intelligent, but if electrically is engaged by aggressive human nature, those weapons will get the job done that the humans demand of them. Whether it's a stick or a stone, or a spear, or an arrow, or a gun or a computer, or words in books, those inanimate objects are not responsible for what we as humans coerce them to do. I suggest we should stop giving power to the term artificial intelligence and go to the source of what always was the problem, which is, suspicious and devious human nature. We understand that we can't trust others to not cause harm to us, because we are fully aware from the study of history, that others can't trust us to not cause harm to them. And because as individuals, we all suffer from the weakness of tunnel vision, we are so very artificial, we find it impossible to “be” intelligent.
@Hellserch
2 жыл бұрын
Karl Marx argued this in his notes, commonly called Grundrisse. Basically these were notes that Engels picked up of the floor after Marx’s death. Penrose and Marx: perfect symmetry.
@servomekanism8505
2 жыл бұрын
Argued what exactly?
@mikebellamy
Жыл бұрын
Perry Marshall of Evo2.0 fame a digital communications expert puts it this way "all computing logic is deductive while intelligence is inductive logic and why the former cannot make a choice so will never achieve human conscious intelligence."
@Miks2092
Жыл бұрын
I wonder if our eyes transmit light waves like sound waves. And this is what affects gravity and collapses the wave function.
@BehroozCompani-fk2sx
2 ай бұрын
Computers solve problems we couldn't solve and they do it faster. Who/what is more intelligent? Examples, protien foldings, chess games, self driving cars (fewer accidents per mile) ....
@saeiddavatolhagh9627
Ай бұрын
I suspect those who made the computer are more intelligent.
@BehroozCompani-fk2sx
Ай бұрын
@@saeiddavatolhagh9627 Computers have solved problems we can not solve. Is we go by your scheme, then the dumb brainless nature that made us is smarter than humans. Unless you bring up the god nonsense.
@kennethadkins8432
2 жыл бұрын
Not yet. But to change the world I want to say to physist and engineers together with the government and with the wealthy to help fix this hyperinflation with multi millionaires up show the compassion to help out America. The government already tries to help with others countries so much as Our own country. But government needs to bring up minimum wage by many dollars and still have to have some help at times. This is crazy.
@NediSafa
Жыл бұрын
He didn't even mention the Pimm Particle!
@jimmycricket7385
Жыл бұрын
The only thing I hope is that when I'm dead I can become the best imaginable version of myself and have the new life that I always dreamt of having. So learning new and interesting things every day, living in a pristine, natural environment. Having good friends and a harem full of stunning, charming, funny and clever women. It ain't paradise if there's no harem of stunning, charming, funny and clever women.
@billthompson7072
Жыл бұрын
The wave function collapses with body or any other body such as the word.
@JohnDoe-tx8lq
2 жыл бұрын
He's completely missed the point. Artificial Intelligence DOESN'T NEED to have consciousness to be deadly to a human or even disastrous for the human race, if it's developed without constraints. The climate is an incredibly complex system but has no consciousness, yet the resulting weather regularly destroys anything we make. An infectious disease is tiny and has no consciousness yet can kill unlimited humans. AI is an incredibly complex system that can (more and more) run on it's own. Putting more control in the hands of AI machines will eventually create a situation where the machine is doing its OWN job very well and the future of humanity is not even a consideration. When AI crashed the stock market, it didn't care what damaged it did to the world economy. it didn't even consider/think/know about it. With more complex life support systems running electrical grids, cities or military networks, an accident we simply can't control and stop is a real possibility in the future... unless we actively work to not let that happen, in whatever way that means. (AI controlled Military Drones CURRENTLY automatically select targets to kill and is given the OK by someone sitting thousands of miles away who is 100% trusting what the drone is telling them to say "yes, open fire." The Drone System has zero consciousness, it doesn't need one. ) A separate point... when you look at how powerful computer software is 'programed' nowadays, it's not just a million lines of code written by humans. They are 'self-learning', they run and learn and build thier own systems with access to the entire world internet and its technical, cultural information & theories.. It's not consciousness like we think of a human, but to dismiss it as just equations is not understanding what work is being done today.
@leighedwards
2 жыл бұрын
I agree with your points - but just imagine how dangerous a conscious computer could be - if we could create such a thing! Especially if we gave it lots of resources and capacity before we realised it was actually self aware!!!! it could have been plotting its own escape or our demise for a long time.
@JohnDoe-tx8lq
2 жыл бұрын
@@leighedwards yer, a conscious, self-aware machine with it's own self interests ads a level of danger if it doesn't like what you’re doing! (though I’d argue that will happen… a separate issue!) The well known the 'Three Laws of Robotics' by SiFi writer Asimov (well worth a google!) was a way of preventing Computers ‘taking over’, yet we have ready built AI that completely ignores those safeguards. We are ALREADY building military machines that deliberately kill humans as a direct result of what they were designed to do, while protecting its own existence. The RoboCop films seem quite dated now, with independent Law Enforcement machines using deadly force, yet that’s exactly where we are heading. When you have AI controlling cities, power plants etc… who controls the machines? (I say this in reply to the video where he seems to imply AI needs consciousness to be dangerous. 😎)
@jyjjy7
2 жыл бұрын
It's actually pretending human consciousness is somehow beyond the equations of physics, which is what Penrose is doing, that is the mistake, not suggesting AI is isn't beyond it as well. Your concerns about the dangers of AI is largely irrelevant to that question. Of course they can be dangerous while being based in the equations of physics, literally everything dangerous is, unless you believe Penrose's wild speculation with no evidence.
@JohnDoe-tx8lq
2 жыл бұрын
@@jyjjy7 My 'concerns' are 100% relevant.12:30
@jyjjy7
2 жыл бұрын
@@JohnDoe-tx8lq I specified a domain of relevance and an exception. Your reply seems to ignore that.
@bradsmith9189
Жыл бұрын
While I appreciated his honesty in often admitting he didn’t know, I was really disappointed he was so naïve on a number of issues. The religion/wars things is really out to lunch. It’s a known fact secular societies have been responsible for many, many, more deaths than theist ones. Just three atheists butchered more people in the last century than in all 19 before it put together. (Pot, Mao, Stalin) Also, the global warming thing is quickly proving to be not anywhere near they would scare us to believe. In fact it’s pretty much a scam. The SETI thing is such a fruitless endeavour. Most people are unaware the chance of even a single protein forming of the simplest type is virtually impossible. Even the number of the stars in the universe cannot begin to approach making up that improbability. (One chance in ten to the 186th power) Bear in mind the total number of elementary particles in the visible universe if only ten to the 80th power ! Oxford University recently concluded a study that put the chance of us being alone in the universe at greater than 90 percent. But…most people are totally unaware and continue to says things like “with so many stars there must be life somewhere”.
@JP-kx2qv
Жыл бұрын
100 percent agree with the title..
@samaale7381
2 жыл бұрын
Lovely handsome Roger. He used to have beautiful black hair
@sebolddaniel
Жыл бұрын
Wow. There is still hope for me, though it is getting awfully late
@JoshuaTree97
Жыл бұрын
Many thinkers were, others will. And all remains the same.
@alnorman4802
Жыл бұрын
Finally someone/scientist who is. Not brainwashed by academia
@erobusblack4856
2 жыл бұрын
Yo he so humble,
@dataflowgeometry
Жыл бұрын
Invented. Take robotics...this is a man-made reality which presents all kinds of challenges in mathematics related to motion, sensation, cognitive processing and environmental safety. Autonomous vehicles (ground, marine and aviation) present an open-ended mathematical playground for problem-solvers. It is illogical to assume the math of the future already "exists" just awaiting to be discovered, since the path forward of math challenges is highly unpredictable. It's developmental.
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