This video is totally outdated, just clarifying that for any future comments telling me how dumb I am when it comes to DOS! I was a child of the Windows 3.1 / Windows 95 era, so running DOS programs was a simple as double clicking them. I've learned far more since I recorded this and plan to make an updated version soon!
@DocterWaffles
3 жыл бұрын
when is soon )):
@NinjaRunningWild
2 жыл бұрын
Sooner!
@Azuris190
2 жыл бұрын
I've installed Win 3.11 on Dosbox :P
@philidor9657
2 жыл бұрын
I really would have liked to see you figure these out before posting this video instead of just giving up and posting your failed attempts. Regardless, I'm looking forward to an updated version of this video, since I'm still pretty interested in these!
@mgrinzRafal
6 жыл бұрын
Regarding DOS editors, just try to change the working directory first. Instead of typing "DEU\DEU.EXE" do the "CD DEU" first and then just type "DEU.EXE". Programs of that era expected some additional files to be present in the *current* directory.
@dleslie
4 жыл бұрын
As an old guy, this was by far the cringiest part of the video.
@petroidau
4 жыл бұрын
Or add the DEU directory to the system path variable (can add to autoexec.bat...)
@QuotePilgrim
3 жыл бұрын
Not just programs of that era, basically every program nowadays too. Thing is that shortcuts specify a working directory, which is by default the one where the executable is in, so it's essentially the same as running it from its directory. Running a program from the command line without navigating to its root directory first still has a good chance to cause it the fail to find some of its required files.
@DuckReconMajor
2 жыл бұрын
lol yeah this has me pulling my hair out
@scorpsportal
Жыл бұрын
I have never shouted at a KZitem video before... "TYPE CD! TYPE CD!"
@JaxxoonR
6 жыл бұрын
It's a wonder even half of 90's maps were ever finished considering the editors they had to use. All the grandpa dadmen from accounting that made them in their spare time are unsung heroes. By the way, you can press CTRL+F to snap an OBS source to fit the capture area.
@DoomKid
6 жыл бұрын
Thanks Jaxxoon, great tip. and yeah, those old editors were insanely clunky just based on WinDEU..
@JustAthel
5 жыл бұрын
I'm having flashbacks of using DMapEdit. ...sheesh those were some dark times-
@JediMB
3 жыл бұрын
Back in the 90's, my clueless ass got its hands on some Doom map editor... probably through one of those Doom Explosion discs. Can't even remember what it was called, but I had no idea what to do with it. No GUI to speak of, and through trial and error (mashing buttons?) I only got as far as being able to edit "things" and possibly drag around nodes or vertices. It's a world of difference now that I'm working with Doom Builder 2 a few decades later.
@NinjaNezumi
3 жыл бұрын
I remember trying to use doom editors back in 93/94... I managed to make a square box on the screen.... that was it.
@xxxvertigoxxx
6 жыл бұрын
*Attempting to Run: Old DOOM Editors! ;p
@DoomKid
6 жыл бұрын
**Failing to Run: Old DOOM Editors!
@freddoomer3515
4 жыл бұрын
@@DoomKid question what is your opinion about Doom 2016's snap map editor.
@HardwareFahrrad
4 жыл бұрын
@@freddoomer3515 I wanna know that too
@gurg2671
3 жыл бұрын
@@DoomKid sir answer his question
@DoomKid
3 жыл бұрын
@@freddoomer3515 lol YT randomly decides what comments I get notifications for! I think snapmap is a fun way to kill an hour here or there, but it isn't even comparable to the customization of the original Doom and D2.
@AIIICH
6 жыл бұрын
Hey DoomKid! Long time no see! It's me, Baphomet from the Skulltag forums! I just want to say you forgot a super cool DOS editor named DMapEdit. The problem with the DOS editors is that you will need a machine that can run Windows 98 and below since that version of Windows has TRUE DOS. Most of those editors are programmed to run on those DOS system files that DOSBOX cannot support. Cheers Mate!
@DoomKid
6 жыл бұрын
Great to hear from you Baphomet! Thanks for commenting man, one of my friends has an old computer, I might see if they'll let me abduct it and install win98 on it, then I could just use a capture card to get the footage.
@shockwave1993attack
6 жыл бұрын
Try using XWE to make maps lol
@DoomKid
6 жыл бұрын
Jesus man, do you want to see me die?! lol
@DoomVideoVault
6 жыл бұрын
Or making a small mod with SlumpEd lol
@TDRR_Gamez
5 жыл бұрын
@@DoomVideoVault I have made a few revisions of one of my mods using SlumpEd, and it's pretty easy to use tbh.
@mrcowboyzombie
4 жыл бұрын
Me i used XWE... is really easy to use, bad is modify the iwads and you must redownload them... but i like it. Another good but hard is wintex... i just used it twice xd
@42percenthealth
6 жыл бұрын
DosBox is missing a LOT of the features of actual DOS, so some things don't run on it. It's just an emulator, and it was pretty much just made for games. I've tried hacking on it a bit, and it seems like a lot of file viewing/editing features are broken. (Yeah, I'm a nerd.) Good vid mate! This was entertaining! :-)
@DoomKid
6 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the info 42! I think the fact that I didn't CD to the proper dirs didn't help, but if I still get issues in part2, I'll know why
@mrcowboyzombie
4 жыл бұрын
For that edmap or another old map editors dont work me!
@judgegroovyman
2 жыл бұрын
There are several other dosbox forks like dosbox-x that might work better fyi
@Freddie_R
4 жыл бұрын
DCK was a good dos doom mapper. But u could not edit hexen maps
@il2-hsfx
3 жыл бұрын
I have deep pity for the pain you felt making this video because when watching this I had a dark emotional flashback watching a linedef light up in yellow again for the first time in 25+ years.
@TDRR_Gamez
5 жыл бұрын
DMapEdit was one you forgot, and it's pretty good for DOS, even including an untextured 3D preview and actually functions in DOSBOX (Heck i once made a couple maps on my Wii with it!)
@Ashurion-Neonix
3 жыл бұрын
My dad made his wads in deu. They actually weren't that bad visually. The only issue is that he didn't really care about the gameplay, making his maps confusing and unfair. There were certainly a lot of pitch black rooms filled with barons and no ammo. However they were quite good looking for a map made in the 90s. They weren't great, but they didn't have any major flaws aside from every room looking similar. I'm going to try to get him to use udb to see what he can make in that.
@pentagramofprotection
2 жыл бұрын
were they ever released to the internet?
@lambda-m1676
Жыл бұрын
@@pentagramofprotectionProbably not
@RaymondTracer
4 жыл бұрын
You should run a Windows 98 VM and try the map editors again.
@RaymondTracer
4 жыл бұрын
And for the programs saying they're missing stuff and can't start, it might be because your current directory isn't the same as the directory those programs are in.
@saidts
3 жыл бұрын
DCK was my favorite editor
@alexeyvlasenko6622
3 жыл бұрын
It would be interesting to make a port of one of these old editors (perhaps DoomEd, for historical reasons) that runs on modern systems, maybe using SDL or something. These aren't huge programs, so it might be a fun project for a few weekends
@XCenturionX
4 жыл бұрын
Doom Builder 1.68 still works on Windows 10, which was the editor I used to make a Doom 2 Megawad back in the day. I still use it just to export map images; a feature that GZDoom Builder doesn't have...
@CarrowMind
3 жыл бұрын
I want to see you try to use the actually in-house map editor id used when making DOOM, I wonder if its ever been released publically?
@samuelfreeman5483
3 жыл бұрын
Ask John Romero. He programmed and designed it, I believe.
@NinjaRunningWild
2 жыл бұрын
Yes, it's been released with the source code. _However!_ It's purely a NeXTSTEP app, so unless you own a NeXT (I used to) or can run it through a VM, you can't even run it.
@clarencerandall5044
4 жыл бұрын
What about waded
@petroidau
4 жыл бұрын
I spent so much time in DCK 2.2, it was really easy to work with (actually prefered it to 3)
@nukem6
4 жыл бұрын
For a while now I've wanted see how Doom maps are made but never got around to it and I'm always interested in how technology and software evolves, so thanks for this video.
@sosu6227
6 жыл бұрын
Thankfully we are now in the age of quick and easy mapping with GZDoom Builder =]:''')
@MMMMMMMMM2
4 жыл бұрын
I was always interesed in how modding was back in 90s the early days where many features we have today weren't present or werent easy to get or run.
@lemagreengreen
4 жыл бұрын
Man this takes me back... used to make maps in the 90s. I have been looking for my copy of the Doom Hackers Guide book, it came with a bunch of these old tools on a CD.
@Dondlo46
4 жыл бұрын
Try using real Dos computer if u have one
@The_Nametag
3 жыл бұрын
First editor I used was DEU - Doom Editing Utility, DOS version, which didn't properly register my mouse. Things have come a long way since.
@DoomVideoVault
6 жыл бұрын
DCK was my editor of choice before Doom Builder 1 & 2 because of the line building feature for the sectors.
@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan
4 жыл бұрын
DoomEd :(
@zulc22
4 жыл бұрын
why won't this man fucking cd into the directory I'm gonna cry
@DoomKid
4 жыл бұрын
I was being such a dummy when I made this 😂 desperately need to make a better version..
@zulc22
4 жыл бұрын
@@DoomKid do you need help using DOS still
@Sparkette
4 жыл бұрын
You're forgetting a certain NeXTSTEP-based editor, likely the most historically-important one of all.
@DoomKid
4 жыл бұрын
Oh yeah, I'd like to give DoomEd a try. This is nowhere near a comprehensive list, and hell, I only got WinDEU working anyway, so I'm definitely long overdue to make an updated version of this.
@stefanm.734
4 жыл бұрын
18:29 You can begin a sentence with "and". It is a stylistic guideline, not a grammar rule. It was developed to encourage children to vary up their sentence structure, since it is very easy for beginning writers to just start every sentence with words like "and", "or", "because", etc. However, it was never meant to be something you just never used. It's kind of like how you are told to not use the first-person when making an argument while in highschool, but by the time you get to college they tell you that it is perfectly fine to do so. It was just so that you would start thinking more objectively and in more complex ways. What _is_ weird is that "and" in this case is being used at the beginning of a paragraph. By definition a paragraph is the introduction of a new theme or idea, so it rarely makes sense to start with "and", which is used as the extension of an idea.
@DoomKid
4 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the lesson, this is news to me. I was told "don't start sentences with and" in 3rd grade and simply never questioned it again until now. And it's great to know it's grammatically legal!
@stefanm.734
4 жыл бұрын
@@DoomKid You must be the first person I've met that has actually shown appreciation for my garrulous discussions on language.
@criticscooby
6 жыл бұрын
Try maybe next time on virtual box with installed freedos or something likethat...
@cosmicrdt
3 жыл бұрын
This was painful to watch. You're supposed to run the executables from the folder it's contained in! You should so a follow up and try that.
@MrThejoshmon
6 жыл бұрын
Interesting watch, it certainly explains a lot of old map design.
@DoomKid
6 жыл бұрын
Agreed, you can really see how simply constructing some basic rooms would have felt like such an achievement. It's so easy to take the easy modern tools for granted, not just for mapping but for all aspects of modding!
@plumfun6750
2 жыл бұрын
Late to the party, but my "go-to" editors were WadAuthor, DOOMCad and DeepSea (from before it was called that)... in that order. The WAVP (WadAuthor Value Pack) made some nice improvements to WA, and yes, I did pay for all of the above. In fact, I think I even paid for WA three times...on purpose, because I loved it so much (I think Mr.Williston refunded my fourth attempt because he was pretty much 'done' doing DOOM editing stuff and the death of his father kinda hit him hard, iirc). .. Now? Ultimate DOOM Builder (when it works) and trying to get used to mapping in SLADE 3. DeepSea is...nice, powerful...and quirky as hell.
@AngelloProduct
6 жыл бұрын
So are you busy with any doom projects?
@DoomKid
6 жыл бұрын
I'm not currently making any wads, but I'm working hard on a video about the Doom movie and on fixing some issues with doomshack. More stuff is definitely on the way though!
@AngelloProduct
6 жыл бұрын
DoomKid I just want to ask if you want to work on our mod. Cause we need mappers for our campaign
@tj71520
4 жыл бұрын
EdMap for MS-DOS still gives me nightmares to this day
@byprdev5528
3 жыл бұрын
I used that. Better than DoomCad and WinDEU. It had texture alignment
@tj71520
3 жыл бұрын
@@byprdev5528 if it did then I never found it or perhaps I used an early version
@byprdev5528
3 жыл бұрын
@@tj71520 I used 1.41, dont ask me why I remember that lol
@pcorf
2 жыл бұрын
I started with Doomcad 5.1 and 6.1 and a bit of Edmap. Then I recall first using Doom Builder in 2003. Once I got Windows XP it was Doom Builder all the way. There were still some great maps made during the pre Doom Builder era (DEU, Doomcad, DCK, Wadauthor the most popular choices).
@kevinedward6132
4 жыл бұрын
DCad is the old one I used to make levels... really old version and you had to launch the game to see what it looked like, you literally looked at the level from a DooM minimap style view, so it took me ages to get anything done figuring out heights etc... Levels my friends enjoyed playing but to be honest... nothing spectacular. Wish I could find my old disks with those crappy old levels I made, would be fun to see again.
@Zulk_RS
6 жыл бұрын
Just watched this. This was a pretty neat video.
@olzhas1one755
5 жыл бұрын
God, if this is how hard it was to make Doom maps, imagine how hard it would be to make mods... holy crap
@XCenturionX
4 жыл бұрын
For Doom3, you may have to go to College because nothing comes pre-built like Doom 2016
@Shanjaq
6 жыл бұрын
if an app complains that it can't find files that are right there next to it, you probably must cd to the app directory to run it. it's looking in "current directory" and you're in root, not the app dir
@KVNfromNDT
3 жыл бұрын
My editor to go to in the 90's was Doomcad. Good times!
@BoingotheClown
3 жыл бұрын
DooMCAD used to be my workhorse for DooM editing for years.
@GTAManRCR
3 жыл бұрын
5:28 It's IOGW.wad music
@n11n12
2 жыл бұрын
Man, this takes me back. I got that big book Tricks of the Doom Programming Gurus when I was fourteen, and it came with a CD-Rom with all these editors on it. The simple act of aligning textures was such a pain in the ass back then. I think the book even had a lengthy chapter devoted to nothing but that, complete with all kinds of formulas and equations to do for each wall and vertex. So when I see mid nineties maps like Betray, I can't really hold it against them. I was blown away when I first downloaded Ultimate Doom Builder, and saw its 3D mode for the first time.
@DoomKid
2 жыл бұрын
The difference in tools back then and now really is huge.. I think modern mappers seriously take all the convenience for granted!
@tobbyhappy3572
4 жыл бұрын
Yes.
@heavyswomern
2 жыл бұрын
i just realized that the song at the beginning was soundgarden
@DoomKid
2 жыл бұрын
Yep, there was meant to be a few Soundgarden tracks in Doom, a real shame they weren’t used
@snoosmumrick5059
6 жыл бұрын
О, нихуя себе, новый обзор!
@AzzBoekie
3 жыл бұрын
Did you not find WadEd??
@_Thred_
3 жыл бұрын
This is the one i was gonna comment on. I used WadED to make my maps.
@borpothewizard
3 жыл бұрын
Good Lord.. those old editors look like hell. Glad I found GZDoom Builder. Mad respekt for those who made wads with them. Jesus...
@DoomKid
3 жыл бұрын
Couldn't agree more!
@QuotePilgrim
4 ай бұрын
I'm still waiting for that update that you promised 😆 I have made a map in every DOS editor that I could get my hands on like two years ago, so I know it can be done. There is one thing you should know before you try: not all editors have a built-in node builder. After you save a map from the editor, you'll need to build the nodes yourself with a node builder of your choice before you can run it. Also, DeeP does come with a node builder, but you need to explicitly tell it to build the nodes. If you get a segmentation violation error, one of the causes is that you didn't build the nodes for your map. It could also be that you forgot to place a player 1 start thing. You can build the nodes outside of DOSBox, of course, but for the authentic DOS experience I recommend downloading version 0.98a of ZenNode (you also need to get the 32RTM executable from the 0.98 version), which is the latest one that still runs on DOS. You can presumably also use the node builder from DeeP on maps made with other editors because it's a separate executable from the editor itself. I haven't tried doing that but there's no reason why it shouldn't work.
@DoomKid
Ай бұрын
Thank you, I'm definitely going to reference this comment if I ever get around to a sequel.. Hopefully it will be less than a decade between them.. 😆
@DrPeeper
Жыл бұрын
Where is new version? It doesn't seem to exist anywhere
@NinjaRunningWild
2 жыл бұрын
You had me at old Doom editors (been there many years back. DEU. DEEP. Edmap. DoomCad. Renegade Map Editor. WadAuthor. I used them all. I even paid for DEEP, HEEP, & DEEPSea.), a Slayer flag, & a picture of Worf (😂🤣. I love TNG!). Proceed! BTW - There's a good book that'd show you a LOT called : Instant Doom Levels - Create Your Own Carnage for DOOM, DOOM2, HERETIC. There's a PDF of it available. BTW 2 : Yes, as you've noted in the comments, you _need_ to CD (change DIR) into the program DIR. Otherwise, it won't be able to find its data & other files as most programs by default only look in the DIR they're currently in (IE - Local), unless programmed otherwise (and the people programming these editors just assumed you'd go to that DIR).
@DoomKid
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks a lot for the comment, I’ll definitely be grabbing a PDF of that book! (I love old mapping books in general)
@NinjaRunningWild
2 жыл бұрын
@@DoomKid Its on archive as Instant Doom Levels Level Master II. There's an ebook DIR on the CD. It's in there.
@vaclavgembala6773
2 жыл бұрын
Hey, I created my high school as a DM map in Wadauthor back in 2001 :D too shame the wad is lost
@DoomKid
2 жыл бұрын
Another person using WadAuthor in 2001 who lost their maps?? Very relatable!
@vrenlyet2174
3 жыл бұрын
The music in the background sounds like it's based on classic DOOM tracks - what is it and where can I get it? :)
@DoomKid
3 жыл бұрын
Here you are, they come from the unused Doom music mostly: www.mediafire.com/file/6u8gg6368o66z5o/doommidi.zip/file
@cbnewham5633
Жыл бұрын
Setting the PATH for DEU might have worked.
@DoomKid
Жыл бұрын
I was way too much of a noob here in general
@haywoodyoudome
3 жыл бұрын
The good ol' days before you could watch a video tutorial or search Google. Read the text files, take notes, and just keep at it until it works. Who cares if your map's just four walls, you and an imp.....it's your map!!!
@BusinessZeus
10 ай бұрын
20:30 Chuck Rock!
@armyman-ig7qs
Жыл бұрын
666 like nice
@amaruqlonewolf3350
4 ай бұрын
Will there be a follow up to this? xD
@DoomKid
Ай бұрын
Maybe one day.. I genuinely do want to make one.
@kiler1411
3 жыл бұрын
Was there ever a re-tread of this video, where he gets the dos ones he couldn't figure out working?
@DoomKid
3 жыл бұрын
I’m due to make a new one for sure
@kiler1411
3 жыл бұрын
@@DoomKid fuck yeah, can't wait to see it.
@VoidloniXaarii
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you. Fascinating stuff
@DoomKid
3 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it
@XaneMyers
6 жыл бұрын
Wow… I only have used the three Doom Builders and looking at those older editors, good thing I did! Wow, what would it have been like if CodeImp didn't make Doom Builder?
@DoomKid
6 жыл бұрын
I think it definitely would have had an impact on mapping for the last 15 years!
@besusbb
Жыл бұрын
Hey Doomkid! I know this is a 4yrs old video, but I found one editor that works on DOSBox without any setup whatsoever (except having to have doom2.wad in D:/doom2/) which is Amazing Doom Editor or ADE 2, a DEU 5.21 derivative, link is there on idgames. I was able to create a simple test map with it and holy jesus is it hard to use, which I ran with Boom 2.02 exe; it also builds nodes and all that. This made me appreciate the effort that went into GZDB/UDB much more. Just wanted to let you know about this if you're still interested in trying out old editors. Cheers.
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