In the video, you'll see burnt pistons and valves, likely from blowby past the piston rings. It appears to be a sloppy fit between the pistons and cylinders resulting in that blowby as well as a lot of wear after only 245 miles before it seized. The valve shims were almost double the usual sizes after the head work that was done. While the valves were sticky in the guides, the cams were burnt, cracked, and the cam journals looked melted in one spot from what we're guessing is lack of oil pressure. The bike had sufficient oil, but it didn't appear to get where it needed.
@brandonrose4525
2 жыл бұрын
The cause of the failure is obvious. The cams heating up on the one side, is key to diagnosis. No piston slap will cause the cams to heat up, nor will gaps between the lobes and shims. This is a classic example of lack of oil pressure to the cams. Head gasket fitted incorrectly/upside down blocking the oil supply to the cams, or gasket sealant from the rebuild blocking the supply of oil to the cams, or it could be swarf/broken engine parts blocking the supply of oil to the cams.
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
2 жыл бұрын
agreed. piston slap is just more evidence of carelessness in addition to everything else i found wrong with the whole bike, not just the engine, but with proper oiling the cams should not have fried like that, even the other sloppy work.
@dougturner370
5 ай бұрын
I totally agree with this diagnosis.
@serialgolfer
3 жыл бұрын
It’s interesting you say that one of the cam shaft caps was replaced. It my understanding you generally can’t do this because the caps are machined together with that specific cylinder head. If they are worn or damaged you usually have to get a new cylinder head with it’s associated caps. Just putting some random cap on from a different head is likely to result in incorrect camshaft to journal clearance. It seems like too much of a coincidence seeing that the journals on the camshaft and cap on one particular side are buggered and the others don’t look too bad. It is strange that the journals look fine on the cap that you say was replaced but perhaps the interaction of the different clearances from the caps caused this?
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
3 жыл бұрын
You're absolutely correct in that the caps are included with the head not separately for absolutely precise shaft/journal clearance. With the cover bolt holes all messed up, it was a risk, but the shop that was trying to fix what the other one did checked the clearances to make sure that it was correct before putting back together. If that wouldn't have been acceptable, we would've had to recreate the threads in the original one to avoid buying a whole new head. What the 'good' shop said after seeing the video is that his guess is that the real cause of the damage is oil didn't seem to be getting to the cams, and the far end was starved worse where they were darker. In the spot where the journal was appearing melted, that was his guess where it actually did melt the metal and lock up from lack of oil. This doesn't excuse the sloppy piston fits, sticky valves, or high valve shim thicknesses, but lack of oil pressure does seem to be the ultimate cause. That make sense? pretty hard to pinpoint, but fun to try to determine what happened, just wish it wasn't such an expensive lesson!
@serialgolfer
3 жыл бұрын
@@NoLimitsNoRegrets yeah I’d be curious to know if their measurements of the clearances were accurate enough. It’s my understanding these engines usually have the oil travel through the internal of the camshaft out of holes in the to the respective journals! So if oil was getting to one of the cam caps then surely it should have been able to make it to the far side cap unless there was an internal blockage inside both the camshafts? It sounds like the general level of measurements were not very accurate as those pistons seems very sloppy indeed!
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
3 жыл бұрын
i of course have zero trust in the shop that rebuilt the engine, who also took out the fancy alpha cams and put in his own cams, so who knows what happened exactly, but the shop that replaced the one cam cap i trust to have measured and done everything by the book. The trusted shop did note some web postings of people that had problems with failures in the oil pressure relief valve in the bottom of the engine causing engine failure. I should note that i put 3000 miles on the engine when i built it, so the oiling was working fine then, but it the bike sat collecting dust in the untrusted shop that rebuilt it/swapped the cams for almost 2 years. When i got it back, the starter clutch failed after about 2 miles after receiving, and I thought maybe it had sat too long and wasn't oiled, but now i think something happened when it was getting rebuilt whether the pressure valve got sticky sitting there too long or something happened during the rebuild, or who knows what happened there.
@serialgolfer
3 жыл бұрын
@@NoLimitsNoRegrets yeah agreed there could be a multitude of reasons why it failed and the engine would require a thorough failure analysis process with all the parts and factors involved to know what caused the failure. They are complex machines and different factors affect other factors in many ways!
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
3 жыл бұрын
@@serialgolfer There really are, and after observing so much apathy and carelessness in the work done on it by that shop, there's no telling. It wasn't worth spending probably even the time i did to diagnose a dead boat anchor, but figured after spending close to $40K on said anchor, i might as well see if i can learn anything from my very expensive lesson in trust. They are SO complex. after working on HD's/choppers my whole life, it was a very different experience building this engine, but my build made it 3000 miles and was still running vs. this "expert" build making it 245 miles haha.
@pizzaparty-r1c
5 ай бұрын
Uhmm...and why did the builder not bear the responsibility of replacing the engine?
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
5 ай бұрын
that's what he does. unfortunately, i didn't know his reputation when i first started working with him, but i learned the hard way. once he saw i'd replaced the junk engine and had the bike working, he told me to ship him the engine back so he could fix it and i could sell it. i told him ethically i would never sell anything he worked on to anyone else after seeing how atrocious his work was. very expensive lesson learned.
@tonychettleburgh8953
3 ай бұрын
Oil starvation for sure but I don't like the look of the gasket surfaces on that block/head etc. Looks to me like someone cleaned off the old gaskets and sealant with a stiff wire brush.
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
3 ай бұрын
the amount of incompetence throughout the whole bike when i got i back was atrocious. kzitem.info/news/bejne/0H19zmuign-Lm4osi=Y9gpGdXzfcX3j_oL goes through how bad the work was that guy did.
@brandonrose4525
2 жыл бұрын
Ive just rebuilt 2 of these engines and am sure what caused this engine to fail. The problem is if you give too much torque when tightening the cam cradles down, it locks up the cams. Hence, too much friction, lack of supply of oil to the camshafts causes the engine to seize.
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
2 жыл бұрын
ahh, that's a good point as those cams were toast. As much as i'd like to say it's unlikely something like that could've happened, if you saw all the other disasters and sloppy work on this bike, you'd believe it too.
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
2 жыл бұрын
wait though, if you did that, the cam cradles can only be as tight as their two mating surfaces touching, right? if you over tighten them how does that make the tolerance between the cam and journal any tighter. doesn't it just put more tension on the bolts and threads?
@pizzaparty-r1c
5 ай бұрын
@@NoLimitsNoRegrets Aluminum compresses quite easily if over torqued.
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
5 ай бұрын
@@pizzaparty-r1c agreed.
@chrismoody1342
2 жыл бұрын
Is shooting the fly by night shop to severe of a reaction. Man that top end and those piston clearances are a tragedy. 247 miles..... I’d be livid.
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
2 жыл бұрын
i cannot begin to describe my rage over that whole deal. It became so bad, that i had to accept i was never going to get a dime or ounce of satisfaction out of it, and just had to put it in the past as one expensive, painful lesson like the exwife. Sucks that ppl like that continue to get away with this horrible behavior and nothing can be done about it...legally.
@joaosoares3719
3 жыл бұрын
So, what did we learn, kids? Repeat after me: always take your x brand motorcycle to an x brand service center and not to a random idiot who fancies himself as a mechanic...
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
3 жыл бұрын
super painful, super expensive lesson :(
@serialgolfer
11 ай бұрын
this video was suggested in my watch lost again and something occurred to me that this engine seems to be an older gen1 or 2 engine. And apparently the older engines had a known fault with the oil pressure regulating valve. They had been known to stick open at times and bmw changed that part number with redesigned part to correct it. Either that or the oil clearance was insufficient or oil was blocked to the head for some reason. Fundamentally oil wasn’t getting to the cams in sufficient quantities or pressure to lubricate things.
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
11 ай бұрын
correct, this build was based on the original 2010 engine, but new pistons, rods, heads, cams, etc. i hadn't heard of that specific fail you mention. there was obvious failure at the cam journals, and someone else had a comment about the cams being a failure, but i don't recall the detail of that offhand. most of the parts were the same as when i built it with the parts from the same individual, and it didn't have this problem (although the set of parts he sold me had valves hitting pistons), but this fail was after that shop rebuilt it.
@anthonycavalliotis8736
5 ай бұрын
Low oil pressure.
@KeyserSoze5421
Жыл бұрын
Not finished watching all the video but I suspect possibly that when the compression rings and oil rings were fitted they weren’t spaced out correctly as the manual would state, rings 120° apart and oil control rings 30° apart with regards to the gaps, I also wonder if the piston rings themselves were not properly gapped. Definitely looks like oil starvation on the cam shafts, whoever built it has clearly made an arse of it.
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
Жыл бұрын
can't remember if i checked the indexing or not, but the slop and scoring in the cylinders was awful. yes, oil starvation for sure somehow. Don't know if you saw the part 2 of the decade of owning the bike, but the list of unacceptable fckups that guy did to the bike was awful. it wasn't just the engine fail, but just pure carelessness and stupidity on the whole project. case bolts sticking out, loose, radiator hoses, wouldn't even start cuz he had the starter wires backwards. he should never be allowed to touch a wrench again after seeing what he did to that poor bike.
@adzventurerider
2 жыл бұрын
The ultimate fear of getting a rebuild. 2 years... Still couldn't find the right piston. Better luck with the new engine
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
2 жыл бұрын
once the exorcism was done on it and removed everything that guy touched, the new 18 engine and electronics has been solid and awesome. hit 193.3 mph in the TX Mile last March, now prepping it for the TX Mile in Mar this year. leaving the engine alone though!
@sl0f1n93
Жыл бұрын
@@NoLimitsNoRegrets do you know how much approximately what was the cost of the new engine? Tnx
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
Жыл бұрын
@@sl0f1n93 i don't know just that cost. mine was used out of a donor bike a shop north of me had, but i paid about $12k to get the engine, electronics, and have it all custom installed in my bike, but a quick check on ebay would give you an idea on a used engine price. a new one from the dealer...wouldn't be surprised if they're $8-9k?
@april3745
Жыл бұрын
lack of oil to the camshafts, but just about everything else in the engine is about to fail anyway. dont take the RSV4 to that shop!
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
Жыл бұрын
yes, there was just so much wrong with the bike beyond the engine failure too. No, i wouldn't trust that clown with a playskool tool kit to wind my watch!
@KGRR-us9ie
3 жыл бұрын
So what were you able to salvage/sell? Did you install a totally new engine? I have a May 2010 model and am about to replace the cam chain now (45,000 kilometres) running strong just a bit of rattling. When the timing was checked last year my tech said I should change the cam timing chain sooner then later.
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
3 жыл бұрын
all i was able to save/sell was the stm clutch and the fancy alpha rods. the guy that bought them said he could clean the pistons and use them too. everything else was fcked. i ended up installing a solid 2018 engine and electronics, so i got rid of everything that guy up north touched to make sure nothing else he screwed up was gonna show up. super happy with it now. for the timing change, bmw makes a kit to make sure you get everything adjusted perfectly, get the valve adjustments right, etc. the factory service cd was really good about walking through the whole process i thought when i did it.
@jameswan670
3 жыл бұрын
Change cam chain at 45000km? What a poor quality...
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
3 жыл бұрын
@@jameswan670 i changed the cam chain when i did the rebuild at 20K miles or so, i don't know if the shop up that fcked it all up replaced the chain or not. obviously there was way bigger problems than the chain on this.
@jameswan670
3 жыл бұрын
@@NoLimitsNoRegrets connecting road, metal bearing defect is well know on s1000rr...very poor quality and design fault..
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
3 жыл бұрын
@@jameswan670 that's disappointing to hear. these are the bearings between the crank and the conrod, right? i.e. not the wrist pin at the piston end i assume?
@Bladerunner954
8 ай бұрын
How can it run up to $40,000 to have the engine rebuilt. That's more than a new bike costs??
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
8 ай бұрын
painful, i know. it's technically the whole amount of waste to end up back at a stock engine from my whole build with all the parts the conshop sold me that had interference, the conshop's charges to 'fix' it which blew up right away, and having to replace the engine/electronics to do an exorcism on the bike and get it tip-top again. Full history on it in the mods videos: Part 1 mods: kzitem.info/news/bejne/tXx4mIOLaqqZh4I Part 2 mods: kzitem.info/news/bejne/0H19zmuign-Lm4o Part 3 mods: kzitem.info/news/bejne/mo5s3J6LrF-XZqw
@Zircon10
5 ай бұрын
I thought a new engine was about $15K?
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
5 ай бұрын
@@Zircon10 not sure if you're referencing the $40k waste or the $12k for the '18 engine. The tragic details of the $40k are in kzitem.info/news/bejne/tXx4mIOLaqqZh4I and kzitem.info/news/bejne/0H19zmuign-Lm4osi=eELrcKSb1_O8u4bE . Details of the $12k '18 engine and electronics are in the kzitem.info/news/bejne/mo5s3J6LrF-XZqw but that was a used '18 engine, not new.
@Zircon10
5 ай бұрын
@@NoLimitsNoRegrets I had heard that was the price of a fresh engine from the BM folks?
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
5 ай бұрын
@@Zircon10could be, i never got a quote, just got the used one.
@CubanRider
3 жыл бұрын
Man, brutal, that's a lot of money down the drain.
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
3 жыл бұрын
for dang sure. about $40K i could've saved if i never met that con between me building it with parts he sold me and his holding it hostage 2 years to fck it all up. trying to focus on how much i'm enjoying it now. just did a couple weekends in CO rockies on it, and rides like a wet dream!
@bryceg6412
2 жыл бұрын
Would you be willing to sell any engine parts. Since you won’t be reassembling your engine.
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
2 жыл бұрын
sorry, but the engine was in such bad condition inside, i didn't want to sell anything except the fancy alpha rods and stm clutch, so sold the rod/piston assy's /clutch to one guy after making sure he saw the video and understood the situation, and everything else i threw in the dumpster. the only thing i think i have left is some carbon fiber covers and the throttle body assy that i thought would be safely uneffected from the engine failure. if you're interested in either of those, let me know, but that's all that's left.
@StreetMotoZ
4 ай бұрын
BMW motos just kind of scare me. I would have to buy one new with a warranty instead of used. So, I will probably stick to my Japanese motos.
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
4 ай бұрын
i had virtually no issues that weren't because i didn't leave it stock. in almost 14 years, the only factory issues i've had was a tip sensor replacement and there was a recall on one of the handlebar switch housings, but other than that, the bike has been rock solid. Gotta remember this thing has done years of texas mile events, drag strip, COTA track days, and is what i rode coast to coast hard in 33 hours w/o using a drop of oil.
@MRR-qv3bw
3 жыл бұрын
@6:32 WHO ELSE HAS MADE IT THIS FAR AND IS DISGUSTED BY THE WORKMANSHIP THAT WENT INTO THIS MOTOR? I LITERALLY MAD FOR YOU.... I HOPE YOU DON'T SAY WHO DID THIS TO YOUR MOTOR LOL
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
3 жыл бұрын
dude you have no idea. that was the engine of the bike that has the record for fastest ride across America, i trusted that guy with it, and I wasted close to $40K total to have my engine molested like this. This video doesn't even include all the atrocities external. i think the mods part 2 video show more of it. case bolts having 3/8" exposed threads, loose coolant hoses, wouldn't even start when i got the bike back as the starter wires were reversed. So happy with it now, but it's horrible seeing someone like this in business. terrible.
@MRR-qv3bw
3 жыл бұрын
I HONESTLY can't imagine how upsettrng this had to be for you! I'm really OCD when it comes to my bikes also and this video simply blew my mind! How bad did it smoke when you started the break in or were you able to get that far before you realized how bad things were? I can't see this motor running and not only burning oil but spitting it out the exhaust. The blow by had to be insane!
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
3 жыл бұрын
@@MRR-qv3bw can't begin to describe how furious i am to have been so patient with him through his health, family health, all the excuses, to get it back in such horrible shape, and then to just blame everyone else for his horrible excuse for work. surprisingly, i didn't notice any smoke, but that may have been because i was already worried what else i'd find up front after all the other disasters i'd seen, so i never really paid attention to look backward. no point spending more time/$/stress suing him as i'd never get a dime anyway, so no choice but to be happy it's solid now and chalk it up with the ex-wife as a rotten lesson in trusting the wrong person. this was more expensive than divorce by a long ways though.
@DrIoannis
3 жыл бұрын
It smells like human error...
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
3 жыл бұрын
the sloppy work on everything about what that shop did is just mind-blowing. i had a chopper shop in FL and would NEVER let something leave that looked like that. They're machines, and things go wrong, but there's a basic level of care and competence a mechanic should have before working on things. awful. very expensive, hard lesson.
@kostassamaras9263
3 жыл бұрын
Sorry for say that but the s1000rr brake their engines i work in a motorcycle workshop and i know that,i hope your bmw will be ok
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
3 жыл бұрын
BMW did a great job with it, the clown i let work on it was the problem. But i had a really good shop put an '18 engine and electronics in, so i get everything i loved about my old bike with upgrades and reliability of an '18. turned 197hp at the wheel too!
@JohnnyQPublic001
3 жыл бұрын
No assembly lube? That piston slap is nasty too. So the timing may have been off? Sorry about your luck bud. Honestly, you shouldn't have let shop 1 nor shop 2 touch it. You say you ran a shop before, you have the tools, next time do it yourself so you know it's right bud.
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
3 жыл бұрын
based on the poor work i saw, who knows if he even used it or not. the timing wasn't noticeably off as far as sounding/running rough, but who knows. that's what's so aggravating. i built the engine with parts from him initially, and it ran for several thousand miles, but when i did that build the shims all had to be special thicker ones from him, and he said it was fine, but that means the valves sat lower in the head. When he pulled it apart, he sent pics of where the valves had hit the pistons. when i questioned why he provided the head, head gasket, pistons, cams, etc. he sent me parts causing valve/piston interference, he told me i messed up the timing, even though i did it exactly per the BMW manual with the BMW tools. overall, you're exactly right though. lesson learned. painful, expensive lesson. important thing is i now have a nice '18 engine in it and am out in CO tearing up the rockies on it loving it, so focusing on the positive of today!
@Jon_B_Quick
2 жыл бұрын
Looks like idiots built the engine . Did the give you a build sheet. That would tell you what they did as far as machining.
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
2 жыл бұрын
Yes i completely agree, and took 2 years and a fortune to do it (more detail on the disaster experience at kzitem.info/news/bejne/0H19zmuign-Lm4o ). build sheet, hilarious. it wouldn't even start when i got it cuz the starter cables were backwards among a ton of other sloppy errors. $5K more to get it running, then 245 miles i think it was before it grenaded.
@BIBIWCICC
2 жыл бұрын
There are so many of these popping. Seriously bad design.
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
2 жыл бұрын
honestly the engine was rock solid until i hitched my trailer to the wrong horse. BMW did a good job, the shop i made the fatal error in trusting who bled me for a fortune did not.
@Gus-oq3el
2 жыл бұрын
hmmm.... have same bike for some repairs now (clutch and fr chasis), the bike is 2014, 65k km (!) on odometer, and try to imagine: i see this video, and i allso see, that someone allready put hands in bike's engine (for ex. incorrect installation of oil pump chain guide), an now i'm in some kind of deep warning... :DDD
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
2 жыл бұрын
hopefully the person's hands in your engine weren't the same hands that violated mine. they're a great engine, but if you get the wrong set of parts (attempt 1) or the wrong guy with the wrench (this attempt 2), things get real bad and real expensive!
@Gus-oq3el
2 жыл бұрын
@@NoLimitsNoRegrets you know, it is kind of danger - bike is from germany, but no service documents, and at dealership very little info about servicing. i can send you some photos, if you interested. i am from europe, chopper one (ok, tractor one, considering HD's :D ), but allso love these fast technological bikes.
@Gus-oq3el
2 жыл бұрын
as i see your engine - very looks like oil starvation. but this does not explain valve stuck. usually they r stuck when are bent. a little. they are made of bi or three metal composit, small and light, could be not right valve timing, and push starter button :D
@Gus-oq3el
2 жыл бұрын
about bmw prices here in europe: find bmwautodalys dot lt, enter your vin last 7 digits and... enjoy! :)))
@NoLimitsNoRegrets
2 жыл бұрын
@@Gus-oq3el oil starvation was what someone else suggested as a possibility, but the amount of horrible excuse for work on the bike when i got it back on everything that shopped touched, i can't trust that anything was done correctly. i used to have a shop and would NEVER let anything close to what i saw leave. atrocious.
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