Possibly the best video I've seen that explains all this clearly. So easy to follow, and you won't break your boiler. Thanks Jo. It worked for me.
@andypepper1983
2 жыл бұрын
This is so useful thank you. I was definitely told when I moved in (new house) to keep it on MAX! I have had the hot water low around 55c for a while only because it burns on the kitchen sink! I thought I was being inefficient and all along I was doing the right thing. I will now turn down the heating to the same level. The amount of flues you see on this estate what I now know as excessive heat being pumped out! Be worth a leaflet drop just to educate as I didn't know.
@TheHeatingHub
2 жыл бұрын
Wonderful work and thank you! You can put the link on Facebook and the word might get round, but working on a leaflet too. In a new build you can probably run it 50degC
@RichardNutman
2 жыл бұрын
I have my hot water at 43c, which by the time it reaches upstairs is perfect for shower. No point heating hotter and having to mix cold water back in.
@elmando3434
Жыл бұрын
@@RichardNutman hot water must be at 60°C This is so bacteria in the water doesn’t grow, and cause nasty things like Legionella.
@markjones1337
Жыл бұрын
What you were told is correct. What Heating hub don't seem to understand is that the 'condensing mode' is not what took boilers from 78% to above 90%. The main efficiency increase was achieved by a modular fan and the boiler using a larger volume of gas at the start heating cycle to get the system HOT quicker. Keeping it set to a lower flow temp will keep the boiler on for longer, and likely use more gas.
@ched999uk
2 жыл бұрын
It's amazing that plumbers are still designing systems using an 80degC flow temp so it keeps radiators smaller and thus cheaper. Some even think the 'steam' from the flu is the boiler condensing!!!! I wonder why boiler manufacturers are allowed to have factory settings that are not at the most efficient rating that the boiler can run at!!! Great video and all very well explained.
@firsteerr
2 жыл бұрын
tell me what is the "steam from the flu ?
@ched999uk
2 жыл бұрын
@@firsteerr I believe it's water vapour. The flu gasses are cooler than a non condensing boiler so the gas coolers quicker and thus condenses the outside air quicker than non condensing boiler flu. All that said I am not a gas engineer so just what I have researched.
@copperskills3973
Жыл бұрын
This is for systems using a hot water storage cylinder with motorised valves and on/off controls. They are designed at 80c to give a sensible reheat time of the hot water for 60c at the taps. These controls are massively outdated now and any heating engineer worth his salt would choose priority domestic hot water nowadays for fast reheat times of the fast recovery hot water cylinder (unvented type usually )at an 80c flow temperature at maximum gas rate. Whilst simultaneously switching off central heating during hot water regeneration. Reheat times of 10-15mins are standard and then the boiler switches back to central heating mode on weather or load compensation saving gas and excess carbon dioxide into the atmosphere
@markjones1337
Жыл бұрын
@@ched999uk I am a Gas Engineer, and you don't know what your talking about.
@ched999uk
Жыл бұрын
@@markjones1337 No problem, could you explain what I have wrong? I am interested in learning.
@jobooth1507
2 жыл бұрын
Great explanation and easy to follow steps. I've been trying to fo this for weeks. Thank you Jo finally managed it after watching your video.
@TheHeatingHub
2 жыл бұрын
So glad it helped!
@tbonetone1
Жыл бұрын
Thank you, very helpful. When my boiler was fitted the engineer left both dials at full so ive never touched them since, this advice helps alot.
@dougmullinger3240
2 жыл бұрын
Great video! Many people don't understand the direct relationship between running costs and operating temperatures.
@TheHeatingHub
2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely!
@martinbingle5074
2 жыл бұрын
People are obviously a bit thick then.
@robhargraves3805
Жыл бұрын
@@martinbingle5074definitely!
@simonmatthews6253
2 жыл бұрын
Fantastic. Who wouldn't want to save money and emissions at the same time.
@aaronanstey354
Жыл бұрын
Thank you very much. I will be using this as a helpful resource for those I know who are trying to save energy at home. Finally somewhere to go that explains condensing boilers so simply. A breath of fresh air.
@michaelcoffey5655
Жыл бұрын
Thank you to Jo and Richard, very interesting.Now that I live on my own, it is even more important to save. 10/10
@richardlewis5316
6 ай бұрын
I enjoyed your easy to follow message. I have been using gas boilers for 40 years and I have tried to explain to my friends that using the wireless thermostat to control the house is not ideal especially if it is in the main room or kitchen so it switches off and the rest of the house is cold!! Based on my own house I keep the water temperature at 50 -55 and the wall stat at anything above the outside temperature. This explanation is usually not understood! My smart meter tells me that my daily cost is about £3.00 (less than a pint of beer!).
@ursulahatton3591
Жыл бұрын
EXCELLENT VIDEO Guys! THANKU SO MUCH!! Simple, clear, concise . PERFECT
@roberthuntley1090
2 жыл бұрын
There is a trade off to consider - low flow temperature raises efficiency by increasing condensation, but means that the house takes longer to warm up from cold since the radiators give off less heat (especially true if the radiators were sized used an 80deg flow temperature). My compromise is to run it at 55 between spring and autumn, but be prepared to increase it in the depths of winter. It takes a bit of trial and error experimenting to see how low you can get away with in relation to the outside temperature. Its surprising how noticeable a small 1 or 2 degree increase makes to the warm up rate, so only raise it in small steps. After a few weeks you will get a feel for the best relationship between flow and outside temperatures for your house. Ideal world you would emulate the OpenTherm methodology in which the boiler runs continuously, with the low flow temperature ensuring that the radiators only give enough heat to balance the loss from the house.
@johnw2758
Жыл бұрын
Yeah I noticed the increase in condensation when I had my flow at 55. This last couple of weeks or so with the freezing temperatures I started at 75 degrees and am currently down to 67, the rads are getting the room to temperature but there is way less condensation. I reckon about 65 in winter will be spot on for us.
@allanb2906
Жыл бұрын
@@johnw2758 Yes you're absolutely right. My new install was set to have a return flow temp of 55deg. However with the temperature plummeting to -8 in mid Dec 22 the system was running continuously without raising the room temp much above 16deg. So I've had to resort to pushing the return temp up quite considerably (75 deg) which has resulted in the rads being able to meet the required room temp in a reasonable time. The sweet spot is yet to be found but hopefully the outside temperature will pop above zero soon.
@johnw2758
Жыл бұрын
@@allanb2906 yep, although my wife now says the radiators are too hot to touch ??.....You just can't win 🙂
@essanjay8604
Жыл бұрын
@@johnw2758 Before all this 60 degree flow temp advice started being bandied around I always started the season on 65, upped this to 70 in the depths of Winter then turned it back down to 65 again as the weather got warmer. I don't think most homes warm up quickly enough to keep it at 60.
@johnw2758
Жыл бұрын
@@essanjay8604 yep I agree....we are currently at 54 flow and, to me, it takes far too long to heat up to 19 degrees (it does get there eventually). I've decided to up it to 62 as I feel the boiler (and pump) will be running far less, and equalising the 'saving' we would (maybe) be making with the boiler being in condensing mode. I think a better way of saving is on the DHW, having that set so we don't have to waste heat by having to cool the water down. We have it on 48 and that, with the initial cold water at the start of filling the sink, enables us (me) to wash up at a comfortable level. It also at the ideal level for a shower.
@trb10
2 жыл бұрын
I'm doing this to my boiler as soon as I get home. Thanks for the tip!
@markjones1337
Жыл бұрын
Lowering your flow temp does NOT save you money. It's likely to cost you more better your boiler will be on for longer. Condensating boilers are designed to heat up as far as possible, they do this by using a larger volume of gas at the start of the heating cycle and then modulates downs to min. This is why all condensate boiler have to have a 22mm Min gas pipe running to then, older SEDBUK D boilers could have a 15mm gas pipe.
@sustainabledittisham13
2 жыл бұрын
Brilliant. An easy way to save £££'s and reduce CO2 emissions. Thanks for making this Jo. :)
@markjones1337
Жыл бұрын
Lowering the flow temp doesn't save you money nor does it lower CO2. Neither you or these clowns in this totally useless video understand how a condensing boiler works.
@peterlanephotography
Жыл бұрын
We had an argument with the last 2 technicians who inspected the boiler. First said: You should keep the dial on max, as this will quickly warm the radiators very hot and switch off the boiler for a long time, and reduce energy bill. Otherwise, it will trigger ignitions so often, which will keep the pump running constantly and use electricity, which is expensive now. Also on every ignition he said, there is a loss that goes in the chimney. The second technician said, keep it on 50 degrees and leave it. You should be able to touch the radiator and not burn your hand. From what I see by following the second advice is, the electricity bill goes on 20% higher. Please comment on this.
@sayers1984
Жыл бұрын
This was brilliant advice, very informative, lowering my boiler tomorrow morning!
@florentinBlueyes
Жыл бұрын
Condensation it's an auxiliary function similar with Egr (exhaust gas recirculation) on diesel engines, basically,when the boiler goes in condensation mode, boiler exhaust gases are recirculated and used too for heating the water, and the boiler,even if we don't see, lowers the gas usage to minimum, like you would keep your stove on minimum,instead of maximum!
@paulpro2010
2 жыл бұрын
A helpful tip, if you have Worcester combi boiler make sure you have no electrical appliances underneath, as the inevitable leak from plastic manifolds will cost you enough money as it is.
@James-zu1ij
2 жыл бұрын
My Potterton Promax He Store is at 45C, I tried 35C, but it complains and starts to sound like a T-Rex. I was trying to simulate an ASHP. So far 45C is fantastic with the outside temp between 2 to 6C and the thermostat set to 17C. My house glows with warmth, and it doesn't cycle a great deal. I have mine switch on at 2200 to 2400 and 0700 - 0900 (when am in) When I get home (2230)I turn on a fan heater and IR panel for my TV room, once it gets up to 18C (3 minutes) I turn them off and let the radiators take over. Seems comfy doing this. Hot water is set to 80ish C. Every now and again I will do a high temperature cycle. I don't want bugs in the water. They love it at these low temps.
@TheHeatingHub
2 жыл бұрын
Excellent work!
@stewstube70
Жыл бұрын
Very well put together video. I have an identical looking Worcester boiler with the hot water pre-heat function and have not noticed any difference in time to get hot water at the taps since turning the pre-heat off, so it was kind of pointless anyway. An easy win for energy saving . As I also have the same water timing controls as in your video I found I had to turn the timer to "off" instead of "auto" for hot water in order for the ECO button to remain lit.
@rawdah786
2 жыл бұрын
Fantastic video 👍🏼
@TheHeatingHub
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much!
@petrskapa793
Жыл бұрын
This is an excellent video! There are, also, room thermostats that will do the flow temperature adjustments for you, thermostatic radiator valves that will turn off radiators when you open window that room, etc. Shame we didn't start doing this 20 years ago when we learned about the need to decarbonize.
@markjones1337
Жыл бұрын
The room stat you are referring to is call 'open-therm'. And they are very frustrating for the customer to use and save you £7 a year. I have no idea what rad valve turns the rad off if you open a window.
@tonylee-UK
2 жыл бұрын
Superbly explained and easy to follow- thank you.
@rebeccalg
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for this really valuable video!!
@essanjay8604
Жыл бұрын
Turning down the flow temp has only ever worked for me at the beginning and end of Winter. When it gets really cold as it is now (Dec '22) I find I need to turn it up otherwise it just takes too long to bring the main rooms up to a comfortable temperature particularly in the evenings.
@johnw2758
Жыл бұрын
Even with the flow temp at 75c you should still (probably) get the boiler condensing in freezing temperatures. I'd try and work the temp down a couple of degrees at a time until you find the rooms are taking a long while to heat up. a trick I have is not to tell my wife and then go off her reaction i.e " the bloody radiators were hot this morning"......I then know I've set the temp too high and turn it down a little 🙂
@johntaylor3450
Жыл бұрын
Correct. If you turn the boiler temp down, you lower the temp of the water to the rads. Therefore must take longer to get the temp up. As you say, not so bad when milder, but very noticeable when very cold. And it doesn't save anything. You use less gas per minute, but it takes more minutes to get the required heat from the rads. It's a myth. Turn the boiler down and then look outside. It still plumes as before. I've had this confirmed by a heating engineer. He also confirmed it makes the boiler work longer to produce the same heat level in the house. So your boiler wears out a lot quicker. It's not even false economy, because there is no saving to start with ! I don't know why they peddle this gargage.
@essanjay8604
Жыл бұрын
@@johntaylor3450 I did wonder if it's become the official 'narrative' to make people believe the government has given them good advice to help bring down their energy costs. I put the question to a British Gas engineer recently and I felt he was just spouting what he'd been told to say rather than what he really believed.
@johntaylor3450
Жыл бұрын
@@essanjay8604 I am sure you are right there. It's an established process to create a belief system. If you tell a lie often enough, it becomes accepted as the truth. There are various examples, such as 'microwaves cook from the inside' and 'wool carpets wear better than man mades'. So often propounded, and so easily disproved, but people believe it and repeat it ! The only parties standing to benefit are the boiler manufacturers, by selling more boilers as they wear out quicker. But the factory settings are invariably 75 degrees, and most boiler engineers are happy to leave that setting in place when they service the boiler.. Doesn't that say something !
@felixscamp
2 жыл бұрын
These infomercials are good advice, I just wish they would explain that the return water needs to get back around 50ish to get boilers to go into condense mode & the best thing you can add to a boiler is a device called Boiler Efficiency Manager. it cost me around 160£ fitted in about an hour I’ve never looked back,
@TheHeatingHub
2 жыл бұрын
Interesting, what does it do?
@felixscamp
2 жыл бұрын
It stops boilers from what is called Dry Cycling. Boilers are idiots by themselves & heat by its very nature starts to lose through the casing; flue etc. The B E M has 2 probes which are attached to the output/ return pipe, the system ( about the size of a large mobile phone) constantly monitors the temp out & back when it finds the absolute desired return temp, usually around 11degs than what left the boiler, it shuts the boiler down, as there is enough heat in the pipes to do the work, until the variable difference starts the boiler again. Boilers are by the very nature, constantly replacing lost heat, the device only lets the boiler fire when absolutely necessary, so the casing is getting cooler but the manager says, no way, the pipes are hot enough, you have no need to top up heat, I will turn you on when ready. I fitted my unit in a little under hour, having made extensive research on them, industry have had them for years, I’ve never looked back, boiler temp is lower & firing times are very small therefore saving money, & extending life of boiler as it’s off for so long, it completely takes over the boiler. Our boiler is now 12 yrs old so it’s getting on in boiler age. We have it serviced every year & it takes the engineer 1/2 hour. He’s always impressed how clean it is inside.
@eddyr3691
Жыл бұрын
@@felixscamp Modern boilers can modulate the burner output, so this is type of control mechanism is not so necessary on a new boiler - assuming its been setup correctly. A lot of new boilers have a traditional mode and when commissioned many installer just use that (sadly) as its easier simpler, and mimics the previous boiler operation to the customer and avoids potential call backs.
@normanboyes4983
2 жыл бұрын
This advice is not just for ‘combi’ condensing boilers but also some system boilers which have the facility to set DHW duty and heating duty. Weather compensation is king when it comes to efficiency as long as the right control curve is set to suit the house (intrinsic heat loss)
@TheHeatingHub
2 жыл бұрын
100% agree! Intervention is greater but it can be done
@skatergirlskatergirl2486
2 жыл бұрын
Quite. With much trepidation because it seemed such a radical thing to do, I started doing this back in 2014 (didn't know it was a thing then) with my ancient non-condensing combi boiler, keeping the flow temp at almost the lowest it will go on the dial. But I have never looked back. By keeping the heating on all day, but the dial very low, the house will get to 19decC and stay there, all day long and doesn't constantly have to heat up from cold, as it would if I only ran the boiler hot twice a day as most people do. Hot water still comes out at a good temperature. I did all this for comfort reasons but my gas bills dropped by two thirds which I hadn't expected, and, because the boiler didn't have to work so hard, I think it really has helped it keep going as long as it has. The house's building fabric also seems to prefer staying warm all day and there's almost no condensation now, even in winter. I really ought to get a modern, condensing boiler but was worried about how to lower the flow temp on a digital system. With this video I now know how to do it. Phew.
@eddyr3691
Жыл бұрын
@@skatergirlskatergirl2486 If you get a new boiler try one with weather compensation and it will handle it automatically. You can set the response curve so it is really low for early autumn and spring outside temperatures, and raises the flow temp to your desired temperature for the coldest days of winter. Great thing is that if you have a warm spell for a few days it will auto adjust to a lower flow temp, the raise it back up as the cold weather returns.
@michaelcollins7313
Жыл бұрын
Very clearly explained, thank you.
@richardc1983
2 жыл бұрын
Excellent video!
@TheHeatingHub
2 жыл бұрын
Glad you liked it!
@steverock4329
2 жыл бұрын
Great video, very clear and concise information, thank you for posting excellent content
@UrbanPlumbers
2 жыл бұрын
Good video Jo.
@TheHeatingHub
2 жыл бұрын
thanks Syzmon.
@jakerigby5935
2 жыл бұрын
Would be good to have more info on advise with hot water cylinders
@TheHeatingHub
2 жыл бұрын
I agree, we will do another video
@CrowdControl2K8
Жыл бұрын
How to reduce Gas heating bill... Reduce your hot water temp to an extent where you don't have to mix with cold water. Insulate as many pipes as you can see and access. Insulate any draghts coming from windows, doors, floors, ceilings. Have carpets where possible. Switch off heating to rooms where you do not go. Have weather compensation fitted to boilers. Stop using gas flame fires. If you are in a victorian type house with high ceilings then your bill will be massive regardless. If you have a really old system then upgrade now. BUT for our UK houses to function properly we need airflow through the house so you don't get damp and become sick. If youre in old single brick house, thanks to net zero your house will need about £75k in improvements by 2030.
@johntaylor3450
Жыл бұрын
Lowering the hot water temperature won't save anything. If the water is too hot, you run less of it and fill up with cold. If the temperature is just right then it all comes from the hot tap. You use the same amount of energy to heat half the water to a high temperature as you do to heat it all to the optimum temperature. That's exactly as it worked when washing machines filled from hot and cold pipes to get the right temperature. Now they are all cold fill of course, which is not very energy efficient ! One good tip is to fill the kettle from the hot tap.
@greggreg9677
2 жыл бұрын
Pre heat when using heating is virtually free, when not it stops you using full on heat to get you to temp. By all means turn off when on holiday etc, we were away for two weeks and forgot to switch off preheat, it used 0.15 of a unit ..at October's price cap of 15 p per kwh is 72p , less when heating is on , worth it for Instant hot water, just my opinion. The rest regarding ch flow temp is good advise, better longer lower if your warm enough
@bristolreiki
Жыл бұрын
If you only have one dial for for water and heating how do you guard against legionnaires risk while operating a low flow?
@rabhaw2327
Жыл бұрын
I did it and my radiators only ran warm and used the same amount of gas units so I reset it back to 70 and now they are hot again for the the same money it seems.
@wanderingfool6312
Жыл бұрын
Exactly what I needed, thank you.👍
@leandergloryheart7089
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@TheHeatingHub
2 жыл бұрын
You're welcome!
@johnriggs4929
2 жыл бұрын
Lowering the flow temp on my boiler (Glow-worm Betacom4) is a pain in the backside. I have the manual in front of me, and it may as well be written in Chinese. 18 months ago, during a cold spell, the condensate pipe froze, and the boiler shut down. I disconnected it inside, and allowed the pipe, temporarily, to drain into a bucket. The instructions say "Press the reset button..." I did - and the display simply said "No." I had to go onto youtube, to find a heating engineer's video on how to do it. You HOLD the button down for at least five seconds. I've managed to adjust the flow temp now. For anyone else who has one of these boilers - press the 'mode' button until the radiator symbol only shows, then press the - or + buttons to adjust the temp. Finally, press the mode button ... you should see a tick in the display, confirming the setting. Ditto, with the hot water temp.
@frankmurphy9356
2 жыл бұрын
This is a fantastic video, thanks so much for it!!
@Surfpixels
9 ай бұрын
Thanks for the video, however what is the lowest flow temperature you can use without bacteria ( legionella ) becoming a problem
@eldoradocraftsman3733
2 жыл бұрын
Excellent. Saved to favourites. 👍🏾
@TheHeatingHub
2 жыл бұрын
Great to hear! thanks so much
@Terrylambert7203
2 жыл бұрын
Great video guys, very informative 👍
@TheHeatingHub
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks! 👍
@luluthestargazer
Жыл бұрын
thank you so much, this was really helpful.
@fielding68
Жыл бұрын
That's everything I wanted to know. Thank you.
@markjones1337
Жыл бұрын
And it's completely wrong
@fielding68
Жыл бұрын
@@markjones1337 Please explain why
@markjones1337
Жыл бұрын
@@fielding68 I've posted a couple of explanations in the comments section which will can find and read. She clearly is trying to help but doesn't understand boilers. In the video she says that eco mode 'heat the water in your pipes that run to the hot taps, which is a waste especially if not insulated'. This is total rubbish, a combi does not do that. Eco mode keeps the boiler a warm so when there is a HW demand it doesn't take as long to get the water hot. Condensating boilers are designed to get the system hot as fast as possible then tick over on minimum. Turning the flow temp down slows the heating cycle down meaning the boiler runs for longer. Heating a house from say 17 to 21c will take x amount of gas. Running at a lower flow temp doesn't get extra energy out of x amount of gas.
@fielding68
Жыл бұрын
@@markjones1337 Thank you for that. Much appreciated.
@MM-rv5fd
Жыл бұрын
Does this not simply mean that you need to have your heating on for longer to achieve the desired temperature given that the boiler itself is working to a lower temperature?
@florentinBlueyes
Жыл бұрын
It means yes, but, condensation it's an auxiliary function similar with Egr (exhaust gas recirculation) on diesel engines, basically,when the boiler goes in condensation mode, boiler exhaust gases are recirculated and used too for heating the water, and the boiler,even if we don't see, lowers the gas usage to minimum, like you would keep your stove on minimum,instead of maximum!
@essanjay8604
Жыл бұрын
Yes - so when its really really cold you end up feeling not quite warm enough all evening then it just gets nice and toasty when it's time to go to bed! The only time I've ever found it comfortable to turn down the flow temp is early Autumn and Spring when the weather's just a little cool but not cold.
@Traumahawk007
2 жыл бұрын
If you have a cylinder it maybe possible to reconfigure the system so that it runs with hot water priority so that it can be set to lower flow temps for CH. Excellent video
@markjones1337
Жыл бұрын
How?
@markjones1337
Жыл бұрын
Omg. The pre-heat does NOT heat the pipes, it keeps the boiler warm so it's a little quicker to heat the HW. How can the boiler heat the pipes to the hot taps when there is no flow through the pipes?
@carlmonger9619
Жыл бұрын
You are banging your head against a brick wall Mark. These videos are a sales pitch and if you look at the other clips they are sending messages to those less informed and less able to question the technical advice. We are all useless but they can put you on to their experts who know much more than us who have been in the trade since the 80s. People who take advice like this are exactly the same as those who call us for a new boiler then insist on a Worcester bec the gas board used them and the which magazine recommends them. I know it’s frustrating but you just can’t win.
@markjones1337
Жыл бұрын
@@carlmonger9619 you are correct, it most likely is a sales pitch. As for Worcesters, I don't fit them, but replacing the Right hand Manifold (which leaks after 4 - 8 years) is currently a £350 repair. NEVER buy a WORCESTER.
@markjones1337
Жыл бұрын
@@carlmonger9619 the reason why Worcester make the 'most reliable' boiler list is because they don't fit and 'pump proving sensor' or 'low water pressure sensor'. I can only assume they did this because 1, their CDi ally block heat exchangers becomes porous, and leaks via the condensate pipe (so no fault code so no fault on the boiler) or 2, there's a leak on the plastic Rh or LH block, hopefully the customer hasn't noticed the leak, the boiler still fires up, ergo, not a boiler fault. Worcesters are rubbish.
@Bunter1815
2 жыл бұрын
Why is it not recommended to reduce the temperature on a condensing boiler which isn't a combi boiler ie where one has a hot water tank?
@stuartgammie1862
2 жыл бұрын
Whenever I install a boiler I always leave it set at 60 deg, however how do we tackle the fact that manufacturers are telling people on thier websites that the most efficient way to run the boiler is at 75 degrees (vaillant for example) 🤦♂️
@TheHeatingHub
2 жыл бұрын
IKR, I have written to a couple of manufacturers about that.
@essanjay8604
Жыл бұрын
We just moved into a house where the boiler had been set at 60 but the previous owners clearly weren't very warm since every single radiator was turned up to max. We've turned the flow temp up to 70 now its really cold and set the individual room thermostats to max 3. It's much more comfortable.
@daverockhill760
2 жыл бұрын
What about legionnaires if hot water set too low ? Is this ok on combi boilers
@christophertaylor1944
Жыл бұрын
Good clear video thanks
@hvacdesignsolutions
2 жыл бұрын
The best way do this is to use a weather compensation program, if your boiler has one.
@TheHeatingHub
2 жыл бұрын
100%
@allanb2906
Жыл бұрын
@@TheHeatingHub Can you provide a bit mode detail about WCP settings. I have thw Bosch easy control which has a weather dependent control function but there is a host of additional settings with no explanation. Ta.
@carolehunt709
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this!
@janehamilton2145
2 жыл бұрын
I will try turning down my combi boiler to 60 degrees. But in the winter will this not mean running the heating system for longer and therefore costing more in electricity?
@ve2287
Жыл бұрын
I was wondering the same. @theheatinghub?
@essanjay8604
Жыл бұрын
In my experience that is indeed the case. 60 degrees is OK in October or April but not in December or January when there's frost on the ground.
@alexhartleyeco
2 жыл бұрын
What if you have a condensing boiler with a tank? What can you do then? Really nothing at all?
@philipbroggio9315
2 жыл бұрын
Have been able to go as low as 40 for much of the winter. I heat HW with off peak cheap electricity and solar PV so not worried about legionella. Combined effect during winter is a 42% reduction in gas compared to previous five years !!
@TheHeatingHub
2 жыл бұрын
Amazing! you are heat-pump ready!
@markjones1337
Жыл бұрын
You can't save 42% by turning your flow temp down. ALL condensating boiler run between 90-95% efficiency. If you have saved that must gas it isn't by turning your flow temp down to 40. This video is very misleading, they seem to think a condensing boiler takes heat out the flue gases (poc/products of combustion) and puts that heat into the rads/heating circuit. This is NOT what happens. All the condensate is formed in plastic flue duct and inner flue and runs back down to a trap, at no point does this luke warm water impart its layton heat back into the heating circuit. Just look at an parts diagram for say an Ideal logic. It's the fact that the fan can modulate down to a very low rate which took boilers from 78% SEDBUK D rated to 90-95% sedbuk A rated. The condensate is a byproduct of the design, not an energy saving feature.
@philipbroggio9315
Жыл бұрын
@@markjones1337 Didn't say that. 15750kWh average previous five years. Saved 3600kWh by heating hot water by immersion with Eddi solar diverter. The remaining 12150 reduced to around 7100 kWh by combination of reducing flow temperature and using 500w IR Panel in evenings in living room. Panel only used around 1-1.5 kWh per evening. We kept the thermostat at 20 deg in day with 16 deg set back. Have now ripped out boiler and gone for heat pump as proved that lower radiator temperatures would heat house ok .
@markjones1337
Жыл бұрын
@@philipbroggio9315 I see, and how many years will it take for the gas sayings to pay for the heat pump? About 35?
@philipbroggio9315
Жыл бұрын
@@markjones1337 I paid £6000 and a proportion if that was new radiators and a pressurised cylinder which I would have done as the old stuff was 30 years old and knackered. The savings depend on how much gas costs in future but electricity prices will fall relatively in coming years. My prime motivation is decarbonisation and improving the energy efficiency of my house etc.
@progtom7585
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video! Is the "no white plume from flue" rule a good indicator when temperatures are extremely low, i.e. low single digits or below zero, as the humidity will often be close to 100% in those circumstances
@johntaylor3450
Жыл бұрын
I think this may be something of an urban myth. I have tried it and reduced to 60 from 75. Saving was marginal. You still get a lot of plume, which is supposed to be the indicator. It's obvious that if you turn the boiler heat down, the boiler will have to work harder and fire for longer to produce the same level of heat in the house. Other things being equal, the boiler will wear out quicker, as it is working for longer to produce the same net result. Best way to optimise is to ensure the system balanced properly to get the right levels of heat in each room, use TRVs and keep doors closed.
@bleuargh7373
6 ай бұрын
What is a good temp for hot water from taps?
@jayess8233
2 жыл бұрын
So, the advice online is that combi boilers be set at 75C for heating and 60C for hot water, I've just turned heating down to 60C (which is way below where the 'e' for economy mark is). My question is, do I need to adjust the hot water temp at all? I'm in a rental property and feel very nervous about damaging the boiler, and this was not addressed. Thank you though, very helpful.
@TheHeatingHub
2 жыл бұрын
Excellent, don't worry you can always turn the heating flow temperature back up but I think you'll be fine, as it gets warmer outside lower it again. Leave the hot water at 60degC
@jayess8233
2 жыл бұрын
@@TheHeatingHub Much appreciated thank you :)
@smilernok
Жыл бұрын
just close the hot water tank ,,, and turn the temp down .. huge saving .. you can shower in spring
@davidbowie2046
Жыл бұрын
I always thought the steam coming out of the flue was a good thing, as it shows the boiler is working efficiently?
@keithmarsh8120
2 жыл бұрын
When you were showing the dial on the Ideal logic you faded out before we could see where to set it to?
@TheHeatingHub
2 жыл бұрын
Set it to '1 oclock', if you know what I mean
@chloetv1
2 жыл бұрын
Yes. Not a very helpful thing to do on a video which is meant to help.
@markjones1337
Жыл бұрын
@theheatinghub. Dear heating hub. The condensate saves you very little. Look at the SEDBUK rating, it quotes 90-95%. Most of the condensating happens in the flue duct running from the bottom of the heat exchanger to the flue. This condensate doesn't come into contact with and part of the internet boiler flow/return pipe. What took SEDBUK D boilers to SEDBUK A is the far more accurate modulating fan. There's very little energy to be saved when a A rated boiler is in condensating mode vs none condensating mode. Maybe 3% but probably less. Setting your flow temp will keep your boiler of for longer, offsetting the 1-3% saving. All condensating boilers are designed to uses a larger volume of gas at the start of the heating cycle, hence why 15mm pipe has to be upgraded to 22mm, or 28mm pipe. Getting the system hot quicker is more efficient and is a bigger part of the efficiency of the boiler than condensating mode.
@cornerstaraluminiumltd847
2 жыл бұрын
Great video thanks, seems to be a simple tip that was missed off for years! You pressed the Eco button on your WB boiler, what effect does that have?
@zenithnine
2 жыл бұрын
Its the preheat hot water function. With the Eco light on , this means economy mode , it means the hot water supply circuit does not use any gas until you turn a tap on thereby engaging the hot water to be heated. But this takes time and there is cold water in the pipes needed to be flushed out before you feel the temp diff. In my case , my kitchen sink which is furthest away from the boiler(in terms of pipes) and I need to run the tap at moderate speed for 50 seconds before the effects of heated water can be detected. If you switch eco mode off it means a small tank of water in the boiler is kept at or near the flow temp. To do this it has to fire a gas burn every say 70-90 mins. The benefit is when you demand water at a tap , its already got this smal amount (could be 2 litres but I'm guessing) heated so its quicker to supply it. In my case , I can feel diff at about 15 seconds at the kitchen tap. Going back 18 months before the gas prices , my preheat cost 8p a day or 2.70 a month so it was worth it to me. Now gas is 5 or 6 times more I'm going to adapt to not using it. The best way to use it is perhaps switch it off when late evening or when you go to bed and back on in the morning that way it's only activated for 12 to 14 hours a day instead of 24. However I never used it in May to Oct as I didn't feel it was necessary. Cold supply water in the pipes in summer is 20 degrees , but in winter that drops to 8 to 10 degrees.
@GrrMeister
2 жыл бұрын
*I have Underfloor Heating What's the best Boiler Temperature - have it set at 70c at present >*
@kojak2169
2 жыл бұрын
Are boilers still as efficient without a thermostat. Instead, just adjusting temp at boiler to 55°c when cold. Are they essential or just convenience. Plus boiler standing temps? My elderly parents went up x4 after new bosch boiler with digital thermostat and boiler set to eco 60°. Projected bills according to previous year usage is 6k for 2 OAP's. 🤯
@paulbailey5775
2 жыл бұрын
Is it not better to run your radiators in economy mode... which runs at 50°C ?
@mandydandy3738
Жыл бұрын
pressure needs to be good 1, 1.3 or 1.5 bar & bleed the rads
@rupertbeehsley1680
2 жыл бұрын
Does the diameter of the pipes around the house make any difference? We have the narrow ones.
@guyheather5765
2 жыл бұрын
Hi, a couple of comments - if the flow temperature has been reduced won’t the boiler then fire for longer in its efforts to reach the temperature required by the thermostat?? Also, my manual states the optimum temperature to be 65°….why would the manufacturers say this??
@TheHeatingHub
2 жыл бұрын
Depends on the size of your radiators and how well your home is insulated. In most cases you don't need to make any other adjustments. If you want to go ultra-low you will have to run for longer periods, but it will be at a more efficient setting, so the number of kWh you consumer reduces overall. Manufacturers' advice is near-universally awful. We and others have asked them to remove the word efficient when referring to high temperature settings.
@RichardNutman
2 жыл бұрын
Boilers don't burn gas at full rate all the while the thermostat is calling for heat. When it reaches the set flow temp, the gas and flame is reduced to just maintain flow temp. In essence it just burns gas at the rate of energy your rads are giving out, so boiler will be on for longer but burning less gas. If you have a lot of heat loss though, there is a point where boiler output isn't enough to cover the losses and the boiler will fire continuously. You want a balance between the lowest flow temp, while still getting the house upto thermostat temp in sensible time.
@ve2287
Жыл бұрын
Very helpful @Richard Nutman, thank you
@justin.trading
2 жыл бұрын
I have a indirect Range Tribune HE unvented hot water cylinder, there is option on here to turn down the temp below 60 degrees. Just had an annual service done and I asked about lowering it. Guy said I could and he turned it down to 50 degrees. Told that it's not copper and there is not a risk of legionella when I asked him - can you confirm same?, Also told I have 10mm microbore so air sourced heat pump will cost a fortune as they have to rip it out and put 15mm in and replace radiators is that right? - The boiler is on eco setting, and I have turned the radiators to setting 2 on the TRV in the rooms not being used. Am I set up for winter to be most economical with gas / electric.
@zillay313
2 жыл бұрын
We have system boiler set-up with a water tank that has dial on it set to 55°c. How do I adjust what is on the Viesmaan boiler to do something similar? Thanks
@philiponsolent7232
2 жыл бұрын
This may be an obvious question, but when the boiler is operating in the the hot water mode there is no return flow but the incoming water is cool. So why does my boiler, a Worcester Bosch that is supposed to condense on the HW side, produce clouds of condensation?
@dd5617
2 жыл бұрын
The cold main going through the plate heat exchanger sapps the heat from the short loop being recycled through the main heat exchanger, there is still a "return" but it's an internal flow return loop linking both heat exchangers. Different to the main heating pipework but using a small bit of the same heating water still in the boiler pipework
@tizzy73
Жыл бұрын
so if u set flow out of boiler for rads to 60 and room stat set at 70 its never going to switch off
@Andrew-hx6lm
Жыл бұрын
I have a system condensing boiler. Is it ok if I lower it to 60 °C? Hoping it will lower the plumes coming out of the the flue.
@suiteyousir
2 жыл бұрын
Is it worth reducing the temp of the tap water? What's the best setting for that?
@elmando3434
Жыл бұрын
tap water must be at 60°C at least. This is so bacteria in the water doesn’t grow, and cause nasty things like Legionella.
@roger2008100
Жыл бұрын
Excellent video. If you can access turbo then use it. You wouldn't think twice if it was a motor John.
@mikehopkins4040
2 жыл бұрын
If you turned off the boiler at night would that be safe would it save you money?
@johntaylor3450
Жыл бұрын
I always turn the thermo right down at night, then turn it up about 20 mins before I get up. It will certainly save you money. If you have the right tog value on your quilt, you really shouldn't need the heating on over night ! It is a myth that you save fuel by keeping the heat on when you don't need it to avoid starting up from stone cold.
@esecallum
2 жыл бұрын
HOT WATER AT 43. max temp skin can tolerate.... HEATING AT 56. also prolongs life of boiler.
@TheHeatingHub
2 жыл бұрын
Excellent work on heating. Just be careful with hot water, you still need to be wary of dead legs in pipes and shower heads and cleanse with hot hot water.
@homejewson8943
2 жыл бұрын
Could you explain why turning down the flow temperature is not recommended for installations with a hot water cylinder? Is it simply because it would take more enrgy to heat the hot water sufficiently than would be saved?
@eddyr3691
Жыл бұрын
Legionella is a main reason along with boiler cycling and long cylinder reheat times. You need sustained temps above 55C to kill it, 60C is recommended. But you need your boiler flow temp to be higher than the target temp set on the cylinder, otherwise the cylinder will struggle or never reach your target temp. You need a temp gradient to transfer heat through the heat exchanger in the cylinder (boiler water with sludge and corrosion inhibitor chemicals does not mix with domestic hot water). If the cylinder doesn't hit the target temp, the cylinder will also not send the off signal to the boiler to say it reached its target and the boiler can stop. Instead the boiler will receive the heat on signal from the cylinder, and eventually the return temp from the Cylinder coil will be close to the boilers flow temp - here the boiler can run into bother as it may not be able to modulate down its burner enough to raise the return water coming into it by the small amount being asked of it, at say 54C return to the flow output target of 55C, so it cycles on and off. Start stop cycling is best avoided as much as possible (a small amount is unavoidable without a lot of effort) for the pump and burner. Hope that helps.
@robshaw3655
Жыл бұрын
What about the water temperature at the tap for washing up showers or baths...seems to me a bit odd if you have to add cold water to the running shower or bath water...
@vkman34
Жыл бұрын
I turned down the temperature on the hot water on my boiler by two notches on the dial. It's still perfectly hot enough, and with a combi boiler there's no hot water tank so no danger of legionella if the temperature is too low. Just try it and it it's too cold, adjust the temperature back up again.
@libbyhorsman6531
Жыл бұрын
Hi I have a Combi boiler and my max flow temperature is 35c is that ok and will it save me money thanks
@kimirap65
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks. I have turned my hot water down to 45 on the boiler, but when I run the tap fully open, I see there’s a lot of the thick smoke coming out of the external extractor pipe. The hot water now takes a bit longer to heat up but it still gets extremely hot.
@TheHeatingHub
2 жыл бұрын
We don't advise to turn the hot water down so low for safety reasons. Only turn down the heating flow temperature.
@RichardNutman
2 жыл бұрын
@@TheHeatingHub What safety reasons? Legionnaires is only an issue with a tank at low temps.
@eddyr3691
Жыл бұрын
@@RichardNutman Domestic hot water pipework can be just as susceptible, especially in dead legs left by anyone tinkering with the pipework, it will give them just the right temps to grow.
@Dirt-Diggler
2 жыл бұрын
I have a condenser boiler and a hot water tank 🤔 Just checked and it has the plastic pipe underneath and next to it is my water tank ? I have 2 dials, 1 for rads and one for taps, the tap dial does nothing, to lower the heat at the tap i had to turn the rad dial down ? Nothing i do lowers the rad temp 🤔 It's a vaillant by the way
@Andrew-hx6lm
Жыл бұрын
I have same boiler as you . System condensing boiler. The rad temp is the same as the hot water, it doesn't have heat setting for hot water. I've just adjusted mine from 75°C to 65°C still feels hot on water and rad.
@matthewwakeham2206
2 жыл бұрын
The boiler where I am is massively oversized for the radiators. That means if you turn down the flow temperature, it cycles on and off repeatedly. To avoid this the temperature is set at about 70. The reason for the mismatch is apparently because it's on LPG and only certain models could be converted.
@Swwils
2 жыл бұрын
Fit bigger radiators!
@matthewwakeham2206
2 жыл бұрын
@@Swwils That would help. There are a myriad of other issues with the system though.
@alexroberts8861
2 жыл бұрын
What boiler have you got? You may be able to drop the kw output
@matthewwakeham2206
2 жыл бұрын
@@alexroberts8861 I think it's a glowworm 30hxi. Pretty old now.
@alexroberts8861
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah don't think it's possible with that boiler
@ashoktewary4151
2 жыл бұрын
I had learnt this fact about a long plume being a sign of wasted energy from another KZitem video and had lowered the temperature of my boiler. Two weeks ago I had Worcester Bosch send their engineer for a repair. When I mentioned the long plume from my flue suggesting a high return temperature and thus heat wastage by not condensing the steam, he explained that when the boiler starts in the morning from completely cold with the lowest return temperature, the plume is the longest. A long plume therefore denotes an efficient boiler! Very confusing.
@TheHeatingHub
2 жыл бұрын
it will work harder during the start up phases of the boiler. The physics are clear however, if there is a plume to outside that is hot water vapor condensing into mist (or plume). At a lower return temperature, the condensing will take place within the boiler and there will be less vapor to condense into mist. In winter weather you will still see some plume.
@RichardNutman
2 жыл бұрын
Engineer sounds confused. Plume in the morning is due to it being colder outside. Even your breath makes visible plume when you get to freezing temps. 🙂
@edrobens5145
2 жыл бұрын
The risk here is that if we have a very cold snap, the boiler flow temperature will not be sufficient to heat the house. Also some boilers are now being installed in the loft and cannot be accessed by the householder. The boiler we had installed switches off the flow BEFORE desired set point is reached. This is designed to prevent the old problem of temperature overshoot in the house. Reducing boiler flow temperature could cause problems with this setting.
@stewstube70
Жыл бұрын
Fitting a load compensating room thermostat should cure the overshoot problem. Likewise fitting weather compensation controls should fix the lack of boiler access problem!
@superAweber
Жыл бұрын
I use my boiler with short timed bursts. So I want the radiators to be really hot quickly. I'm not sure this advice would apply to someone like me?
@essanjay8604
Жыл бұрын
Nope - if you turn the flow temp down you can be less than comfortable for hours as you wait for your rooms to reach your desired temperature.
@stuartsinclair6269
Жыл бұрын
Ok but putting your boiler into eco mode turning it on, this allows no pre heated water from the boiler, where it should take between 4 to 7 seconds to the tap you turn on and the distance from the boiler to that tap, turning eco mode off, your boiler every 3 to 4 hours will kick in for 60seconds any time of the day, day or night, which pre heats water, but turning this eco mode on or pre heat on, remember you will have no heated water so when you run the tap, it will take 30 to 45 seconds to receive the hot water to that tap, so your running that boiler for longer, and more gas used, for me it always been left off, if you do switch eco mode on or the pre heat on, or off, I will save pence not pounds,
@tigerlion30
2 жыл бұрын
Forgot something important!?! Unfortunately, my flat is not insulated - should be. I was lied to by Housing Officer during first 2/3 years living in it that it was. Made in early 1970's.
@tigerlion30
2 жыл бұрын
I live in a social housing 1 bed flat. Water @ 50 degress/Heating at 44 degrees. Yet there is still heat coming out of boilder (flue). I have a combi Valiant ecoTECHpro ; this is about 5/6 years old. It gets checked religious every 12 months by City Council's contractors.. Can anyone explain why heat still coming out of the flue?
@pureplay7071
2 жыл бұрын
Because it's still on, even if you turn the heating off (which I do this time of year) it still has to turn on to heat the water.
@markgratton7361
2 жыл бұрын
By lowering the flow temperature will it take longer to heat up my home ? Therefore possibly using more gas ?
@johnf3326
2 жыл бұрын
Yes it will take longer but it will not use more gas. When replacing old radiators, put bigger ones in and they will hold less water as well. The ideal is underfloor heating
@markgratton7361
2 жыл бұрын
@@johnf3326 how will it use more gas ? So replace all my radiators or put in under floor heating to save money I haven’t got lol catch 22
@rebeccacleaves3307
2 жыл бұрын
Can someone please help me with my 18 yr old baxi combi? Not sure where the dial should be set??
@TheHeatingHub
2 жыл бұрын
are you sure it is condensing? does it have a plastic pipe under the boiler?
@rebeccacleaves3307
2 жыл бұрын
Hi, it's a baxi he 105 condensing combi boiler
@rebeccacleaves3307
2 жыл бұрын
Yes, has a white pipe under it
@rebeccacleaves3307
Жыл бұрын
Anyone??
@KenHeslip
2 жыл бұрын
Also...dust the radiators.
@markjones1337
Жыл бұрын
At 7.23 they claim its 'recycling most of its energy back into the heating system'. This is absolutely wrong. The condensate pipe/inner flue/sump (where the condensate runs) is NOT part of the heating circuit, is made of plastic, and does not transfer heat between each circuit. The reason why there was a 'plume' (which doesn't get above 65c at max running) is because the boiler has just fired/at the start of the heating cycle. If the flow temp is set to 55c and the boiler fires for the first time that day (circuit starting from cool) there will still be a plume. Don't listen to this video, it doesn't save you money.
@alistairnewton8898
2 жыл бұрын
Good information but no mention of flushing & cleaning your heating system 10-15% saving on your gas bill if you have never had your system flushed & cleaned in 5 years +.
@TheHeatingHub
2 жыл бұрын
it's a good point, I'll do another video :)
@markjones1337
Жыл бұрын
Lowering the flow temp doesn't lower the internal POC temps. The hottest I got my POC's was 65 running the hot water at max. No matter what temp the flow is set at, the burner is going to run on min as it reaches the set flow temp. You clearly don't understand how a condescending boiler works. Next time your in front of Worcester greenstar or idea logic. Test the poc temp in the sump, it will be well above condensating temp, probably over 95c. No where does any condensate water come into contact with either the flow or return pipe. Heat is NOT taken out of the pocs and put into the heating water. Condensate is an unfortunate by product of having a zero Gov gas valve, moduling fan and top down or sideways burner. Your advice in this video will most likely cost people more money in gas because they will have to run the boiler for a lot longer.
@carlmonger9619
Жыл бұрын
It’s already costing people money. I have site near my home in Northamptonshire which has approximately 200 boiler mate 2000 systems installed. As they are heat stores the store temperature has to reach 70 degrees + - 2 or 3 degrees on hot water priority to change over to heating mode. The units have 3 pumps, one to circulate the primary flow and return from the boiler and one to circulate around the heating circuit . The third pump circulates around the store heat exchanger on hot water demand. Customers are turning their boiler stats down and this is leading to costly call-out fees as the store will not reach temperature to achieve changeover. Also, I love the inference in these videos that those of us with 40 in the industry and hold domestic and commercial quals in gas, oil and steam are all useless but never fear people of the Uk, with their industry experts they can connect you with their own guys. By doing this you will be saved the indignity of having to deal with us Neanderthals who can only offer you the benefits of four decades in the trade.
@carlmonger9619
Жыл бұрын
@@Borderman47 The over use of the word old tradesmen would have a more cynical individual like myself believing you are trying to live in people's heads rent free with insults. I do not have any interest in agreeing or joining in with anyone's opinions here. The facts are plain and the engineer who your wrongly assuming to be a friend is very much correct in what he is saying. Those of us who moved into the technical side of our industry are simply pointing out that there are faults with some of the information provided. Sarcasm is not the issue here sir, its the fact that some people hit a brick wall when offered accurate facts because of their lack of knowledge. Once they hit the wall and arrive at the scene of the accident they have no option but to spout nonsense and offer derogatory remarks. The inference you're trying to project is that we are dinosaurs and you are quite entitled to do so but at least take the time to think about how much knowledge that anyone in any industry has gained after that much time in their career. I am not attempting to discredit anyone here but if this channel is going to offer advice and claim to be an expert then at least make the advice accurate. It may also be of some help to realise that those old tradesmen as you so eloquently put it spent six years attending technical colleges learning their trades so by the law of averages there must be some of us that got past the stage of learning to walk upright. Some gain their knowledge from Eric down the pub and the latest copy of the Which magazine but we did not. Thankfully, by ignoring such advice from the above and fortunately committed to the long but correct method of learning which in turn, blessed us with a very good living of which I will always be grateful for. It also taught us to respect which I have sadly learnt that others have not.
@LabRat6619
2 жыл бұрын
Just switch it off. I would rather have a hot meal than heating.
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