Start with the cheapest DAC you can afford and then after upgrading everything else Including room treatment and DSP correction if you are still unhappy - maybe it’s the DAC Maybe
@SJ-eu7em
2 жыл бұрын
Exactly, OPamps in DAC have much bigger influence on sound. and the biggest is always reproduction so headphones, speakers
@adamyelle4901
2 жыл бұрын
Very interesting perspective. I think everyone's goal when all is said and done is to land at the best setup that their budget allows. So many different ways to try to justify "best" and measurements make it seem like a more simple task than achieving that can be. Personally I feel a little lost in this war between measurements and trusting your ears. It's expensive to toss money around trying so many different products. The battle between the two makes it hard to get excited about investing in expensive products at this point, because one side will always be there to put down what you invested in. I feel like I have stopped caring and just learned to love the more budget friendly options I own already. I've dropped put of the purchasing side of the hobby for the time being.
@toddrhodes7311
2 жыл бұрын
I think you're spot on, and the only real "counter" to plunking down cash for lots of different DACs - which isn't feasible for many - is to "network" within the hobby as best you can, to try and meet others with different gear who you could potentially hear their stuff in your setup. Beyond that, I think the overlap between "audiophiles" and "people who overthink things to an insane degree" is very high, so... try not to let it bother you and it won't. Happy listening!
@veniceog
2 жыл бұрын
@@toddrhodes7311 People go into hobbies in varying degrees. The over thinking part, to some is the appeal as it is a form of escape from work, life and a form of self satisfaction. Aint nothing wrong with that. One doesnt become an olympic level cyclist by not overthinking the sport of cycling. James B Lansing built multi-billion dollar company over thinking electronics as a hobby.
@cheapaudioman
2 жыл бұрын
Your record player is nice. And your music is fun
@Newrecordday2013
2 жыл бұрын
I like you!
@34332
2 жыл бұрын
I like both of you 😄
@ufarkingicehole
2 жыл бұрын
We have cheese
@veniceog
2 жыл бұрын
I like turtles.
@kosta27
2 жыл бұрын
pay heed, their fingers smell of books.
@shitsandwich1983
2 жыл бұрын
"i'm not here to pimp amazon affiliates". 🤣 shots fired. this is why i love ron.
@Newrecordday2013
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Jason!
@veniceog
2 жыл бұрын
Zing! I wouldn’t be surprised if that guy who has long standing consumer electronics industry experience, has a connection to those very same Amazon affiliates.
@BruceCross
2 жыл бұрын
Ron, tell us what do you really think. Ha.
@DrCalebHk
2 жыл бұрын
I agreed with what you said. The time domain is the hardest part to make it right, and many cheap DACs fail on it. That being said, I also have Loxjie D50 and like it. I used it in my bedroom system. For the price and sound, I think it is very good. I had Topping D90 before. After I got Loxjie D50, I sold it D90 right away.
@ShareHobby
2 жыл бұрын
I took a chance purchased the Loxjie D50 since the availability of all other DACs utilizing AKMs top of the line AK4499EQ chip was far and in between. After trying other $300- $500 SMSL DACs using ESS chips, I feel the Loxjie D50 sound is definitely a league above most. Yes I’m talking attack, sustain, decay, release, subtleties, imaging, and black-ground is better than all the other mid-tier Chinese units I’ve tried. I feel the D50 is an absolute bargain for budget minded audiophiles. Yes the soundstage of most chip based DACs will not compete with Holo May R2R topology, but at 1/4 the price, what does one expect? The D50 does better than most. If you’re looking for a great sounding, smooth, articulate, non-fatiguing front end DAC that you can listen to for hours upon tie tapping hours, I highly recommend finding one of these secondhand for as little as $350. It truly cannot be beat. The AKM 4499EQ chip is objectively the best measuring chip on the market, and no longer available. The balanced outputs are the best sounding and the USB input of the Loxjie D50s best. SPDIF coaxial sounds great and optical Toslink is good. There are other AKM AK4499EQ chipped DACs available from other manufacturers. But be ready to spend $1k or more for those units, new and used.🙂
@caseyodonnell6621
2 жыл бұрын
I really appreciate this review. I’ve bought several DACs over the years and from a detail perspective even the bargain models really do a great job. I’ll have to think about your time domain observations as I listen now and see if that helps make differences more apparent.
@veniceog
2 жыл бұрын
What am I listening for? I listen for audio cues that elicit emotional reactions. Some examples being: Pianos that sound real, robust and reverberant, violins reproduced in the manner that floats in the air and makes your heart flutter, just like when they are heard live, echo and reverb effects that impart space and depth, spatial cues that provide believable placements in space of recorded elements. Trumpets that can be soft and also shrill, when they are supposed to. Dynamic range and headroom that can surprise and make you jump. Triangle strikes that suspend in air like an angels whisper. Synthesizer sounds that believably sound like metal bending in front of your face. An ability to hear every element clearly enough to deconstruct it vs an audio soup that only provides a vague idea of what each instrument really sounds like. Well produced electronic dance music that makes your brain melt in awe. Resolution to the point of hearing a sax reed, a guitar body a bass cabinet, even the wood on an oboe vibrate. These characteristics can be achieved in varying degrees at a wide range of price levels with a well thought out combination of equipment. If you are after an experience, vs. a science experiment, then subjective audio gear evaluation and curation might be for you. When it all comes together, it will be very hard to stop listening to your music :)
@mikecees2230
2 жыл бұрын
@John Trinity What DAC would YOU recommend then?
@veniceog
2 жыл бұрын
@@mikecees2230 I don’t consider myself to have the breadth of experience with various DAC’s as NRD and other reviewers. I also had a finite budget when I was shopping for one some 3 years ago. My opinion is limited by my own capabilities and ia highly dependent on what else Ive used with the DAC, from the digital source, to the speakers. At the time, I found the Denafrips Ares II to be outstanding at $750 dollars landed in the US. I had considered the RME ADI-2 but it was over budget. Currently, my digital stack composed of CD’s, Qobuz streaming, a Blusound Node 2i, NAS drive, Sony disc transport and the Ares Ii does a good job for the money. If I had some sort of music server, I’d be looking at higher end units. Personally, I believe in having leveled gear aspirations. I wouldnt put graphite brake rotors on a Camry, and thats were I am :)
@mikecees2230
2 жыл бұрын
@@veniceog I really don't get why the Ares didn't work for me. It sounded skeletal in my system. Maybe my system has compatibility problems. The guy I sold it to told me he had bought one, sold it, bought a Bifrost 2, regretted it and sold it to finally buy another Ares (mine). I had pretty much the same experience with the Chord Mojo that everybody seemed to rave about. It was ''OK'' but lacked weight and the headphone output was barely better than the one on my phone yet they sold a sh*t load of them. Must have been those colored buttons that people fell for.
@veniceog
2 жыл бұрын
@@mikecees2230 the real test of any component is in your system and in your room. If enough factors form a confluence, component impedance matching, component impedance frequency response, speaker frequency response, room reflections and cancellations, decent gear can underperform. I’d be interested to hear what worked for you. In tricky situations, sometimes, something as simple as moving speaker placement can do the trick.
@mikecees2230
2 жыл бұрын
@@veniceog I've tried about 10 DACs in the $500-1000 range over a period of 10 years. I think the D50 has been the least offensive in my current setup with my 10 year old modded MiniMax running a close second. As for speaker placement and the rest of the gear, I moved recently so it's still full of compromises but I just retired and will be getting around to that shortly. The important/easiest thing was to get the front end sorted out first. I think it's ''good enough'' for now.
@alfonsodelafreg259
2 жыл бұрын
I have a stand a lone DAC. Bought it about 15 years ago to listen to stuff off my computer. It sounds real nice. It is a little black plastic box that has a USB connector on one side and a headphone connector with 2 RCAs on the other. It also has a little red light that lights up when the USB cable is connected to the computer. Nice touch. I opened it up and it appears to have $5.00 worth of parts on a little circuit board. Didn't bother to see what the DAC chip is. Drives my headphones just fine and sounds really good. I listened to a bunch of others over the years and many sounded better than my little plastic black box but not by much. I bought another one to have around in case this one breaks but like many things I buy just in case, I can't find it. I got it from ebay from some guy in Canada that makes them in his garage. It cost $39.95 USD. Perhaps I should send it to that measurement guy we all know that thinks he"s the shit to see how it measures. I'll tell him it cost $2.00K and it has that new delta smegma DAC chip! I built me a music server and had the little DAC feeding my main system for awhile until I let the majic smoke out of the server. I never did fix it. Now I just use it on my laptop with headphones. The headphones make the difference, not the DAC so much. But I digress. Time for some shots of tequila, plug in the little box, make sure the little red light is on, and plug the Audeze LCD3's into the box. It don't get much better. Good night.
@mrpositronia
2 жыл бұрын
I love George Costanza promoting McDonalds.
@maniacaudiophile
2 жыл бұрын
Just a small suggestion... normalize the volume of those meme/joke video clip that you insert into your conversation... It can be somewhat painful if something loud and sharp suddenly cut in, especially when listening in an environment that's quiet.
@mikehuntington4440
2 жыл бұрын
I liked the review but, it did seem strange to compare it to the May DAC. Maybe you should think about getting a couple more "reference" DACs at different price points. Not sure if it's possible, but that would be my humble suggestion.
@Newrecordday2013
2 жыл бұрын
Totally fair Mike.
@pieterpan
2 жыл бұрын
I do not think it is a very fair comment. This isn't an A - B comparison. This is evaluating how close to the reference sound a budget option will get. The answer is "pretty close, but not totally there". Seems logical for the price difference, so no surprise there. It think this type of review gives good insight into where one makes sacrifices in choosing a budget option.
@lanx0003
2 жыл бұрын
You were comparing $580 dac to a over $4k dac. Orange to apple. In addition, I am not sure the "harmonic structure" and decay effect of the music you were listening is an add-on effect of the May dac or the original recording. I happen to know several R2R dacs artificially add decay time to the music notes to sound more pleasing to many audiophile. Whether that artificial effect is commandable I am not really sure. Really! I have been cynical here... Maybe some day if I become a guy spending $4k like a dime, I will become as cynical as well.
@mikecees2230
2 жыл бұрын
I own the D50. I agree with everything you said. No it doesn't do anything wrong just like a Honda Civic doesn't do anything wrong other than not being a BMW or a Porsche. Did it change my life? No. I almost sold it thinking my old DAC was just as good but after going back and forth about 50 times I finally started to notice the high frequencies on my old DAC sounded a bit more aggressive than on the D50. So I decided that was enough to justify keeping it. What am I looking for in a DAC? I won't really know until I hear it. It surely wasn't what the much lauded Denafrips Ares II had to offer because I sold that one 2 days after receiving it. I might be willing to spend 2-3 times as much on DAC but the improvement would have to be substantial. Edit: It bothers me too that I ended up buying a DAC from a generic, anonymous (soulless) Chinese company with no Hi-Fi lineage. Would buying a Bifrost 2 or Border Patrol instead be all about goose bumps, air, decay, etc or just about supporting a made in USA product as opposed to sending yet more hard earned North American wages to the Chinese? If it's the latter, I think we've already lost that battle.
@isaacsykes3
2 жыл бұрын
@RON I have a serious question; how is it possible to do a review of a product in this case the D50, and give an assessment of its value and performance, without testing out all of its features and limiting the information provided to basically what you do with it, rather than what can/could be done with it. Would it not be of value to viewers who may have DSD files, yet also value your opinion that if you have a product that decodes them to have a few tracks to "test" the product, even if you yourself may not indulge in your off time? And I'm asking you as one of the seemingly more reasonable reviewers because I'm seeing this a lot, where someone's personal preference limits the information we as viewers actually get about the products. I apologize, but I can't help but feel that If you're going to bring a product in for review, give a strong opinion of it, you should at least be able to speak to everything that product claims. I feel like that is fair to us and quite frankly to the products and manufacturers as well, which I'm sure attached some of their value claims to features that get ignored depending on the preference of the reviewer. To which I'd ask did you review for US or for you? That said I am a patron, I recognize that this is YOUR channel and can do with it what you want, and I appreciate what you do, but I feel compelled to ask this.
@Newrecordday2013
2 жыл бұрын
Totally fair! I actually plan on trying DSD very soon so I can share that experience and walk you guys through that part of the review as well. Thanks!
@isaacsykes3
2 жыл бұрын
@@Newrecordday2013You're more than welcome, and I thank you, and all the KZitem reviewers for all you do. Despite my rant you and your ilk are greatly appreciated...and to be clear I have no dog in this fight as it pertains to this product, I just want to see any product that reviewed put through its paces when brought to our attention. Because as it stands now in a lot of cases you guy(and gals) are the closest thing to a dealer that most of us will have. Once again thank you for your work, and your civility, and I pray that you and your family are well. Be safe and I look forward to the next video.
@hifiman4562
2 жыл бұрын
I'm happy with my khadas tone board dac. I declare it good enough for mid-fi and hi-fi. I'm not really an audiophile so I won't worry over about extracting more from my system. Would I be happier with more expensive dacs? Sure, if you give it to me. Spending huge sums on equipment would not make me happy.
@philschack9937
2 жыл бұрын
Best thing about this review Ron is the question you asked, What are you Listening for?. Currently it is transparency that I would sum as I am sitting at the mixing board at the studio. To get there currently it is a Marantz dv9600, coax digital to Lexicon MC-8 (using its DAC), with Adcom GFA-545 and Dunlavy SC-II Speakers with stereo Gallo Tr-1 subs. Next, to mix it up when I care more about atmosphere or a sense of being in the room, I am experimenting with taking the RCA out of the Marantz with its built in DAC and sending it through a Pangea HP-201 tube buffer then to the Lexicon Analog direct flowing once again to the Adcom and speakers. That is work in progress, but the goal is to have two options based on mood or recording. I think more folks should do the the two way approach and maybe the audiophile community can see the beauty in both worlds. Peace.
@adamjj85
2 жыл бұрын
Interesting take Ron. Perhaps the goal of a DAC needs to be defined. My feeling is it is to re-produce music transparently with minimal noise and distortion. If a DAC measures well and provides a neutral response with no changes to the original sound, then of course it will sound "good". These super expensive DAC's change the sound, add harmonics, alter soundstage, etc. and if that is what someone is after that's fine, but that should not be the goal of good DAC design. A good DAC should just stay out of the way which most of these Loxjie, SMSL products do at very reasonable prices.
@massivemikeh
2 жыл бұрын
I disagree with this. I don't think expensive dacs ADD anything to the sound. I think affordable dacs don't extract ALL of the information. Just my 2c. Cheers.
@dungysphincter7974
2 жыл бұрын
I like the Loxjie D50, and the Topping D70s . I have my eye on the Denafrips Ares II, and the latest Bifrost from Schiit Audio. From what I gather from reviews I have seen between the both of these, they should work well for most types of music. To get something better than what these two could do, you would spend substantially more than the price of these two combined. Only my opinion.
@crankthetunes7989
2 жыл бұрын
I have the ares and I like it a lot. It seems bassy which is nice because I've got ls50's and it takes some of the edgy highs off them. Voices are pretty detailed as well. Overall better than the DAC in my Cambridge cxn v2. Not by leaps and bounds but enough that I'm very happy with my purchase hope this helps.
@davidlowland4618
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the review. Like others mentioned, it would be nice to hear other comparisons on the low-end - maybe some non-Chinese Schitt like the Modi3 or Modius.
@momtazularefin
2 жыл бұрын
No one understands that manufactures have to tackle several tradeoffs. As an engineer, I often face the dilemma. When listening to a DAC what do you look for? Imaging, soundstage, tonality, frequency extension, noise floor, dynamic range and what not. But I noticed very often the attributes counterbalance each other. Enhancing imaging and soundstage often hurts tonality. Extending frequency response often creates hollow midrange. Focusing too much on the sharp edges hurts music body and richness. Improving all parameters together often requires engineering trickery that increases price exorbitantly. We should be judicious about what to expect and be merciful on the products that we buy. Just my five cents as an engineer. This is why subjective listening is very important. The most expensive DAC may not be for you, even the DAC that measures the best may not be for you. What suits you can only be found by listening to the gear within your system. For those who doesn't have the opportunity to test gears, our KZitem reviewers are the only hope. DACs are the second most important component of a system after speakers. DACs create music, speakers amplify. DACs are no less important determining how a system sings.
@shitsandwich1983
2 жыл бұрын
well said. i recently upgraded dacs and was quite surprised how dramatic the change was.
@massivemikeh
2 жыл бұрын
I listen for depth. I need good depth but not huge width. I like airy, smooth highs and nice tonal density in the mids. Must have good separation. I need to hear the ROOM! Of course there must be bass, but not emphasised. Cheers.
@YitbosSwede
2 ай бұрын
You described exactly what I'm looking for. What is your current DAC that gets the closest?
@Diatonic5th
2 жыл бұрын
Great review!! Amir's zombie army will soon infect the comments section here😂
@veniceog
2 жыл бұрын
Those Gaslight Googans will have you believe youre crazy and that you dont enjoy what you enjoy. Theyll suck the fun out of you like that banana their high priest chews on in eternity on their channel kzitem.info/news/bejne/wKqhtpV_qp2Dqn4
@chrisvinicombe9947
2 жыл бұрын
Brains
@amb3cog
2 жыл бұрын
The Audio Cult! 🤣 🤣 🤣
@Michael-bj4sz
2 жыл бұрын
Since you asked, what listen for is voices that sound human, the sound of guitars that sound like their brand and non amplified instruments that sound real. Do you listen to live non amplified music? What I hear most from this channel is a discussion on hyper etched sound, superior decay and mostly audio equipment b.s.
@massivemikeh
2 жыл бұрын
Ooooh, that's brutal. Lol
@flashhog01
2 жыл бұрын
Great video. Looks to be another generic/bland DAC from overseas which measures and sounds like all the others. I am sure it will be a good addition to many people’s systems.
@1mctous
2 жыл бұрын
I pay attention to those who break away from the corporate herd. There are many great audio products that fly under the radar.
@Newrecordday2013
2 жыл бұрын
That’s so true
@apmihai82
2 жыл бұрын
Allow me to twist your words: the decay/soundstage/extension and whatever you decided to call "time domain" elements, is worth the extra 4 to 4.5k extra dollars, given that the May is your reference?. So all the sub 1k options, YOU, personally cannot recommend. Ah wait...maybe the Denafrips (because it is a R -2R design), that one may tickle your fancy? So what is it? is it R-2R only that gets a recommendation( you seem to recommend the Bifrost- but that's American made)? Or, do you only recommend something when you like the sound signature in the "time domain" irrespective of whether it is a good DAC over all or not (including extra features etc)? Feels to me that this is the last corner where a subjectivist may hide, the "subtleties", the Decay (be it intentional or un-intentional) the elements present only in the "time domain" - which would be pretty hard to measure; that may justify the 9x expenditure to reach the "reference" point. The whole review just sounded like "meh, its a good dac, same as many others coming from China(i am soooo tired of these guys..), nothing special ( oh wait the denafrips... nevermind, lets not mention those guys), buy it if you want it, buy it, i dont like it really, this is MY audiophile opinion, thanks for watching.". I don't even understand why you bothered to review it..
@veniceog
2 жыл бұрын
ASR goon having a conniption because someone has a different viewpoint. "Vee kennet have differing opinions! Vee must demand zem to meashure meashure meashure, and after zey meashure, Zey must blind test! Then and only then, when the the subjectivists have given up from the unreaslitic demands, vee can relax and sit in front of our systems vee dont listen too, coz it measures well anyway. I seen it on paper."
@veniceog
2 жыл бұрын
@@chutgowdingo-loon3212 hurt feewings.
@veniceog
2 жыл бұрын
@@chutgowdingo-loon3212 yet cared enough to reply. Lol. Bye!
@markkraft6675
2 жыл бұрын
Question: for your listening, was the DAC set for "fixed volume" or "variable volume"? And, do you use digital room correction for all your listening tests (i.e. was your convolver active during your listening)?
@Whenallwozkool
2 жыл бұрын
I think you're underestimating how great this DAC actually is.
@Wright00000
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for being honest.
@RCJP1008
2 жыл бұрын
Hello Ron- first timer in the comments section. Listen- I don't own an expensive DAC- I get by with Cambridge Dacmagic 100- entry level ($200 price point) for computer streaming. I brought in one of the Chinese brands ($700 price point)- it sounded fine- much better than either my onboard CD DAC or my Cambridge- not really. It was outfitted with the Saber chip. Had some nice features for sound changes-but I own tubes and I roll tubes to fiddle with sound. I do know that the Cambridge has a different chip than my transport. I listen to CD's (dating myself I guess) and recently bought a nice transport with a Saber DAC chip on board- it sounds really good.-revealing; airy blah blah. Yea- I guess I need to hear the May( or Hula-Hula whatever!) to really understand all the hype. Thanks for the great reviews. Keep up the good work.
@laranbrandt2962
2 жыл бұрын
I watched the review and thank you. I am shopping for a new DAC and my needs and expectations are inline with my modest budget. (500- 800$) I was considering the Loxjie D50 also the Topping D90. Wondering if you can suggest any others in this price range that have exceeded expectations. Thanks
@alvaius
2 жыл бұрын
I will put money on, with the right (equivalent filter settings), that you won't be able to tell them apart blind level matched.
@EM-ke8is
2 жыл бұрын
Nice job while I don't agree with your complete perspective , I had been able to try out a Berkley DAC that used was going for 2500 and was amazing , I ended up after careful research buying a Gustard A22 from APOS and with its connections and streaming connectivity came pretty close in performance . NO NOT BETTER by a long shot but for my purposes and wallet checked all the boxes for less than half of the Berkley .Would love your take on the Gustard if at all possible in the future .Btw the Gustard has 6 filters which I barely switch but is more than enough .
@ThriftShopReviews
2 жыл бұрын
Good review. Loved it. I listen for the size of the room in Led Zeppelin albums and also to hear bonzo’s drum pedal squeak. Simple enough. Oh yea, how the cymbal hits last
@chrisvinicombe9947
2 жыл бұрын
Like the hat 😄 Some of difference you heard might be down to filters. The may has some serious custom engineering and the loxji has default chip filters.
@f1shb0n3d
2 жыл бұрын
Refreshing to hear some real DAC talk without tonality mumbo-jumbo.
@ginom407
2 жыл бұрын
Great Question! What Are we listening for...! Nice hat too.
@DomRivers67
2 жыл бұрын
DAC measurements and how pleasing it sounds I've sometimes found to be different things, the DAC in the Node and older 2i are a case in point, they don't measure that well...but are pleasing to listen to with plenty of detail and air with a wide range of music, I've also got an SMSL Sanskrit 10 V2 which is a bit of an abrasive thing...but measures lovely.
@greenman1282
2 жыл бұрын
Great video Ron! Really enjoyed it. The trope is 80% of the performance for 20% of the price. Would you consider that to be the case in this circumstance something the loxji and may dac?
@34332
2 жыл бұрын
5K buys you more decay. I get it. 😄
@veniceog
2 жыл бұрын
Show me on this doll where the May DAC touched you.
@JR-ho5qm
2 жыл бұрын
Would a DAC in this price range offer much more in sound quality over the DAC in my Bluesound node or Emotiva PT100? Thanks!
@kosta27
2 жыл бұрын
Sir Ron, I think this calls for video on: Everything you wanted to know but was afraid to ask, DAC synergy. Aka, my dac makes me feel things ;)
@rndm4642
2 жыл бұрын
Is the preamp section of these DACs any good? I’m using a similar SMSL DAC as a preamp/DAC and am generally curious how much is left on the table versus a standalone preamp.
@hamez01
2 жыл бұрын
Love your take on audio gear, however the cheap memes inserted in the video I find quite distracting
@infn
2 жыл бұрын
I look for a sense of clarity and transparency, where the sounds of the instruments and all their subtleties are reproduced in a natural and realistic way. You could call it analogue. I look for a convincing illusion that musicians are in the same room, playing a gig in front of me. For me, delta sigma dacs don't produce a realistic enough presentation - and as accomplished and technically impressive as they can become, they're ultimately not as engaging compared to R2R DACs.
@matthewhilty4209
2 жыл бұрын
I am listening for width and room boundaries when auditioning a DAC. How far can I hear the "room" . For example a good way to hear this is cymbals. Do the cymbals sound correct ? Do they sound crashy with no depth ? Can you hear it wobble ? Since I mostly listen to headphones soundstage sometimes gets truncated so narrowing it more with a flat not deep DAC makes it worse.
@geneb3870
11 ай бұрын
Interesting review, I would hope your 6 times more expensive DAC would out perform it!
@AbsoluteFidelity
2 жыл бұрын
Those that say break ins do not exist on speakers is caused by this exact reason and have definitely not compared before and after spectral decay charts. They look at the fr chart and say "Look! No difference! Break in is a myth!". Yeah, they are looking at the wrong charts and expect to find a difference at the wrong place. Decay matters and our hearing is very sensitive to decay. Bring on the blind test, double blind test, triple blind test, quadruple abcdefgx test, quite a few people would spot a difference if there are differences in decay because those differences are usually presented to us as a whole and not a single frequency that lasts for a split milisecond.
@humfreee
2 жыл бұрын
You right in saying that rigourous blind testing would dis/prove the "it's impossible for the human ear to differentiate between dacs that measure well" argument.
@humfreee
2 жыл бұрын
In fact it would be super interesting if a group of youtube reviewers who favor the more expensive dacs were the test subjects.Logistics could be tricky, but a gofundme account could be set up to cover costs and perhaps the tests could be conducted at one of the bigger US hifi shows?
@dajikbatarang1
2 жыл бұрын
Just to remind the measurement folks the Holo May measured incredibly well on ASR, I think its Sinad was in the range of 118. If all DACs that measure well sound the same why did Ron find differences between the d50 and the May DAC? Maybe because there are differences
@Newrecordday2013
2 жыл бұрын
That’s true
@fletchermunson6225
2 жыл бұрын
These DACS do a good job for those who only want or can spend so much on an audio product. Diminishing returns takes over. While I can spend more and have spent a lot more, my current system has a soft limit of $1500 per piece of equipment. My DAC, amps, and speakers are at the limit. The rest are less. I'm satisfied. The economic reality is, the market pyramidal, and the mass of the market is at the lower 2/3 of the pyramid and so are your viewers. Congratulations on your expensive DAC, next time try to not sound so elitist and snobby about it.
@duranarts
2 жыл бұрын
While I see the value in reviewing DACs and getting expert opinions from those who can get a hold of many, I'll never truly believe there are differences unless I hear it for myself. I'll forever be on the fence about this because there's just ZERO chance I'll purchase anything over 1k, especially when you read it is marginal differences. I get he may sound elitist to you (certainly not to me) but that's just the nature of explaining something so nebulous.
@fletchermunson6225
2 жыл бұрын
@@enjoshi-godrez8775 I agree with you. People make choices based on means. Utility varies between people. I just don't get the point in comparing a $600 DAC to something much more expensive. It's not exactly big news that most of the time expensive stuff is better than cheap stuff. Whats the point of comparing something like a super expensive DAC to an inexpensive one and hold your nose while you're doing it. How does that benefit people who are looking for under $1000 DACS?
@fletchermunson6225
2 жыл бұрын
@@duranarts I don't see the point in the condescension in the review. It's a reasonably priced product built to a budget and based on what Ron said about it, it sounds like performs very well for what it is, thats a good thing for most people. If you think reviewing budget gear, is beneath you then don't review budget gear. Viewers looking for that kind of information will go elsewhere.
@treyhorn5645
2 жыл бұрын
Nice Fedora dude. ❤️💪
@praetor47
2 жыл бұрын
i'd be willing to bet you wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a double blind AB test between a good 100$ DAC and your May DAC
@marcfoss7687
2 жыл бұрын
Love the hat, Ron, really suits you!
@Newrecordday2013
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Marc!
@randomtube8226
2 жыл бұрын
So it's basically just another DAC?
@mrpositronia
2 жыл бұрын
I remember watching a reviewer tackle the Holo May DAC and completely missed the point of it, by reviewing it only over headphones. I find these SMSL and Loxjie DACs to be clones of each other, nothing wrong with that, I guess, if you just want a DAC, for DAC's sake.
@bryanbassett2110
2 жыл бұрын
Do a review of the Topping Pre90!
@ericsunbacon745
2 жыл бұрын
The world of DACs are super confusing for me. I run a simple tube integrated amp with the source being a Bluesound Node 2i (Burr-Brown dac). To date, I've only tried a stand-alone DAC once and hated it (Schiit Modius). For me, it was too bright/fatiguing to my ears. I boxed it up and sent it back. I'm still searching for something that sounds "warm/rich" that's not too forward. Budget would be
@asplmn
2 жыл бұрын
Why didn't you go with the Bifrost 2 if you wanted a more rich/warm presentation? Most of the Delta Sigma DACs under $1000 (like the Modius) tend to be a bit more bright sounding in my experience. BF2 is seriously good for the money.
@ericsunbacon745
2 жыл бұрын
@@asplmn Again, the Modius was my 1st, and to date, only stand-alone DAC experience. I originally thought that any DAC would be better than the internal DAC contained in the Node. Obviously I was wrong and now I'm under the impression that I need to spend more to get the results I'm looking for. After going thru the return policy with Schiit, I was looking more for a company that you can actually speak to a human, so I basically blackballed them from future purchase considerations. Had I been able to actually speak with someone at Schiit, I probably would have asked them to trade-up to the Bifrost. For me, their customer service is built into their name, so the search starts anew. I appreciate your input!
@asplmn
2 жыл бұрын
@@ericsunbacon745 oh, that's interesting. I've always been able to get ahold of a human quite easily. Tho, I know they've been absolutely swamped over this past year and the supply chain issues made things worse. It's too bad to hear your experience was less than stellar with them, they do make some really great products at a fair value. And yeah, honestly, you need to jump up quite a bit to start noticing any real difference in my experience. First time I noticed any difference was with the BF2. I've tried several cheaper DACs and they all sound the same to me. And the biggest difference I've heard is with the Yggdrasil ($2k). I've had two Delta sigma DACs over $1k and they sounded the same to me.
@ericsunbacon745
2 жыл бұрын
@@asplmn maybe I will reconsider, given your testimony. I should probably try an R2R configuration and see if that's where my preference lies. To close out my experiences with their preferred communication style, the only way I had any luck was via email. Again, I really do appreciate your input...thank you!
@asplmn
2 жыл бұрын
@@ericsunbacon745 yeah, R2R has been my preference. There's a couple other R2R DACs worth checking out aside from Schiit. I know Denafrips received a lot of attention. I'd be curious to know what you eventually settled on. Good luck!
@pennfootball71
2 жыл бұрын
Holo Spring 3 with preamp built in more interesting
@Nightjar726
2 жыл бұрын
I got the Topping D90SE to see what they hype was about. And it sucked. Period. A tad thin sounding, and timbre was horrible. Instruments didn’t sound real at all Cheap Chinese DACs that just measure well for some measurements
@Newrecordday2013
2 жыл бұрын
I am not surprised at all.
@Nightjar726
2 жыл бұрын
@@Newrecordday2013 funny thing is that I get attacked for that from ‘ some people ‘ of the hardcore measurements army’ for not liking it at all. And I’ve been a musician for over 40 years. Not saying my opinion is better than anyone else’s. And I don’t care. But I do know not only the sound of a violin, piano and guitar, but I am intimate with their tactile response. Look at any pro musician. Now notice how amazingly well they can tune their instrument. That is one sign of a good experienced musician and a beginner. And you know why? Because over the years your ears get tuned and develop very good relative pitch. Pardon for the long rant but it would be great if the people who do measurements start investigating what other measurements are they not quantifying yet. Science evolves. You don’t just stick with measurements of yesterday. You explore why people are hearing and experiencing what they are. Why audio gear with similar measurements will sound different. Cheers
@ShareHobby
2 жыл бұрын
The D90SE seems to be a step down from their D90 MQA with AK4499 chip. It looks like it sounds bad going by the board.
@michaelmityok1001
2 жыл бұрын
Hey love the pointed question to the ASR cultists just don't expect anything other than the stock "you can't measure subtleties therefore they don't exist" answer.
@humfreee
2 жыл бұрын
This theory could easily be dis/proved with blind testing. I'm not sure how many of the "expensive dacs are better" proponents would step forward and participate though?
@humanbass
2 жыл бұрын
Lol calling cultists the people who unveiled plenty of bullshit like PSaudio. Many audiophiles seem to want some sort of "flavor" to a dac that is achieved much more easily by EQing, dsp, speaker type and placement, etc. I have a topping stack and all my headphones sound different on it, because they are different, I don't rely on the dac to impose some kind of signature. Many seem actually annoyed that dacs seems to be a mostly solved issue, they want the thrill of something exotic, be it paying more for R2R or some old chip that does nothing beyond 44.1/16.
@mariodrv
2 жыл бұрын
@@humanbass Ahahahahahah LOL just no. xD HAhahahaha
@veniceog
2 жыл бұрын
@@humfreee Sure. Do you have the results from the tests that allowed you to conclude the statement you made as fact? Opinions not based on observation is simply prejudice.
@humfreee
2 жыл бұрын
@@veniceog Well, blind testing is a recognised standard in science. If testers can't discern an audible difference then there isn't one. Conversely if there is an audible difference then the test would show it. TBH, I'm not sure why you want proof that blind testing is valid when you are willing to accept subjective opinions...
@cheapaudioman
2 жыл бұрын
Fedora!
@net_news
2 жыл бұрын
Ubuntu!
@hinrek
2 жыл бұрын
btw i use Arch
@net_news
2 жыл бұрын
@@hinrek oh l33t
@johnnixon2504
2 жыл бұрын
Yoo! Shots fired. The audio reviewer guys are getting riled up.
@69texaseyes
2 жыл бұрын
Audio equipment can measure and sound good. Unfortunately it seems a bunch of "audiophile" brands sell crap. CHORD as an example.
@veniceog
2 жыл бұрын
It's about time someone called out the fun suckers.
@milosevicbojan07
2 жыл бұрын
Nice Moljac je iz sesira presao u bradu..
@riccitone
2 жыл бұрын
Music stops..."What are you listening for?!?".....Epic. Says it all right there.
@endrizo
Жыл бұрын
loxjie ??? thats an SMSL rebadged
@bluerising1162
2 жыл бұрын
Hey Ron, i think people who listened a lot carefully to high end gear, get what your talking about. Unfortunatly many people never experienced what soundstage, depth, timing, harmonics, realness, dynamics and so on are. When i listen to a dac, i ask myself. Does it sound realistic (Acoustic Instruments, Timbre), is it smooth or grainy (analog or digital), is it halographic 3D or flat, is the backround black, how are the transients, is it dynamic, does it have texture, detail, depth. Problem with measurents is i think, we dont know what to measure. Traditional measurements THD and so on dont tell us a lot about how something sounds.
@Newrecordday2013
2 жыл бұрын
That’s true
@mlb3164
2 жыл бұрын
First if you are buying a $600 DAC then probably the rest of your system is of the same level. If you can’t hear the difference you just can’t hear the difference. Don’t blame the objectivists, they just can’t hear any difference.
@jeffkelly4329
2 жыл бұрын
Hey man relax…it’s just a DAC.
@lextr3110
2 жыл бұрын
so what would you buy instead of the costly may dac?
@Newrecordday2013
2 жыл бұрын
Schiit Bifrost 2
@lextr3110
2 жыл бұрын
@@Newrecordday2013 would you buy 3 bifrost 2 for a 3way digital crossover? i wonder if the reclocking mechanism can affect time alignment
@Newrecordday2013
2 жыл бұрын
I don’t know about that, I don’t mess with digital crossovers at all.
@lextr3110
2 жыл бұрын
@@johnm3544 its just the internal reclocking that bothers me..
@net_news
2 жыл бұрын
what are they listening for? They are not listening and they are proud of it!
@Newrecordday2013
2 жыл бұрын
In many cases, that’s true.
@NemoPropaganda
2 жыл бұрын
Like
@markpenland
2 жыл бұрын
Miss your chin, love the Toadies.
@KindredGh0st
2 жыл бұрын
LoL... I thought it was a smsl
@chrisloveshifi2873
2 жыл бұрын
Hiii
@DrJum
2 жыл бұрын
Love you Ron please have my babies
@edmundzed9870
2 жыл бұрын
No measurements at all, so measurement are so bad you don't even dare to show it?
@julianridi6014
2 жыл бұрын
air in the time domain.....LMFAO...unsubscribe
@Newrecordday2013
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for letting us all know Julian. We were all wondering what your next move would be.
@1mctous
2 жыл бұрын
See you later.
@plcamp1
2 жыл бұрын
Measurements tell you the truth, and can resolve performance far better than the human ear. If you want truth about products and other audio topics I would encourage you to join ASR and learn what matters. Many top end manufacturers comment, and any myths are quickly dispelled. And there’s no associated advertising there.
@veniceog
2 жыл бұрын
Then just read your measurements. Whats the point of listening to music? lol ASR is a circle jerk of self absorb absolutists who can't accept that there are different strokes for different folks. A cesspool of fun sucking negativity. You can have it. ASR saving the world economy from collapse one audiophile product at a time. Hahahahahaha.
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