This one was interesting. It got into some uncomfortable territory! We ended up chatting quite a bit after this as well, good to meet you Joe. Support my work here: www.joeycarbstrong.com/supportourwork 🌱 For free help going vegan 👉🏻 Start here: bit.ly/JoeyVegan22
@LouisGedo
Жыл бұрын
👋 Thank you Joey for all the amazing things you do on behalf of the animals! 🫂
@LouisGedo
Жыл бұрын
19:03 Zzzzzzzzzzzactly
@LouisGedo
Жыл бұрын
22:40 🎤 DROP 💥
@LouisGedo
Жыл бұрын
24:01 The young man still is stuck in his Utilitarianism framework 😔 Advocating to exploit and needlessly harm innocent sentient individuals less is a sure fire recipe to further entrench the conditioning of people to always view animals as commodities. 😡 It's a horrible approach ( to merely advocate to reduce participating in the unjustified exploitation and harming of animals) if the goal is to achieve justice for animals.
@PrivarisYT
Жыл бұрын
@David Wishengrad Exorcist, 1st class Elaborate please.
@oliverhaiste7173
Жыл бұрын
A very high level cerebral debate. I'm a philosophy graduate myself, and it is virtually impossible for anyone who studies ethics at an academic level to not at least have serious sympathy for the vegan position. Hope that this man comes on-board totally.
@joefennell6220
Жыл бұрын
Hi! I am the guy in the video, and I have!!!
@joelwatt7356
Жыл бұрын
@@linusgallagher1607 What?? Elaborate on that insult..
@Emanuelnx
Жыл бұрын
@@joefennell6220 awesome! ✌️🌱
@rmalde3268
Жыл бұрын
@@joefennell6220 Well done to you
@tankiebot704
Жыл бұрын
Fake news
@DebateCentrals
Жыл бұрын
Guy seems to be a pretty genuine dude. Love when someone can change their mind in real time.
@DecidedlyDonna
Жыл бұрын
The vegan messaging is simple. Animals have a right to live free from harm & exploitation just like us! Thanks Joey for working so hard to defend animals. 🌱🌎💯
@edwardsedwards796
Жыл бұрын
Do you agree that mask measures are against Human Rights?
@bluemeister22
Жыл бұрын
Wild animals don't live free from harm, so should we capture them all and put them in to sanctuaries?
@biancat.1873
Жыл бұрын
@@bluemeister22 *free from human harm as much as possible (We live in a society *lol)
@adorable3817
Жыл бұрын
@@edwardsedwards796 great question!! 😁👍 what are your views?
@rememberme3762
Жыл бұрын
Why do animals have the right to live free form harm?
@KellySmunt303
Жыл бұрын
Bro, I'm male, working class and work on building sites, you can't imagine the stick i get for being vegan.
@dangerfulmind
Жыл бұрын
I can, worked in a factory where I was the only Vegan, I was a source of amusement to the other men there, what they didn't understand was how stupid, immature and pathetic they made themselves look. Did it bother me, not at all as I don't care what anyone else thinks of me.
@paulbooth77
Жыл бұрын
Same. Working class in a factory; there's such a 'macho' must eat meat for protein in every meal mentality. It's laughable when their all eating white bread with dead flesh and joke about me having wholemeal with hummus & salad. People are so naive about their long term health....
@Dmarshall072
Жыл бұрын
Same but then I look at my body along with my health and I'm happy again 😅
@alison9189
Жыл бұрын
@paulbooth77 totally. Won't be so masculine for them when they need viagara 😂😂😂
@GarudaLegends
Жыл бұрын
Because you are probably annoying and a crappy low enery worker
@leviahimsa
Жыл бұрын
That's great he wants to reduce suffering as much as possible. He said "YOU'VE CHANGED MY MIND" multiple times - that is powerful and beautiful. 💖
@residentjess
Жыл бұрын
Until he tries the “vegan” diet and changes his mind again.
@brandonevans406
Жыл бұрын
@@residentjess oh look it’s another troll account from the same loser
@55749
Жыл бұрын
Well real meat is better and tastier.
@brandonevans406
Жыл бұрын
@@55749 ohhhh is it?
@rmac3217
Жыл бұрын
90% of ppl who try vegan fall off the bandwagon within 1 year, 99% of ppl who try veganuary eat meat, dairy or eggs in the month.
@quiteatinganimals
Жыл бұрын
everybody is against causing pain and suffering to animals. We are born this way. We are taught to care about certain animals and not others. Then when confronted, we do everything we can to try and justify it. when you listen closely, all the justifications are truly absurd. Great interview! Thank you 🙏🏼
@watch-Dominion-2018
Жыл бұрын
99% of people fund pain and suffering to animals tho, so clearly they're not against it.
@amirrhodesve791
Жыл бұрын
@@watch-Dominion-2018 I'd say most are against It but because they are sheltered from the truth and blind of what happens from their consumption of the products, they don't actually think about it most of the time.
@quiteatinganimals
Жыл бұрын
@@watch-Dominion-2018good points. the majority of people don’t look at it that way. they don’t realize or think about it happening - or they tell themselves that the animals live a good life and do not suffer and feel no pain.
@Cstil18
Жыл бұрын
Not true
@quiteatinganimals
Жыл бұрын
@@Cstil18 what do you mean?
@michaelfinn3885
Жыл бұрын
Been vegan for 12 months and will be for the rest of my life due to you Joey. thank you mate, i feel a lot better physically, way less brain fog and the best part is less animals are now senselessly murdered because of it
@55749
Жыл бұрын
Has someone ever been to jail for killing a cow or other farm animal?
@x-latetv-x6816
Жыл бұрын
@@55749 Gary yourofsky has been to jail for stealing animals but no never heard of someone going to jail for murdering animals
@LucyObi
Жыл бұрын
🎉 well done you should be proud
@mmhmm9271
Жыл бұрын
@@55749 get a life.
@DallePics
Жыл бұрын
@@55749 Yes. Slaughterhouse scumbags who have been caught abusing and torturing the animals before slaughter are jailed quite often. And you raise an interesting point which highlights the hypocrisy and bizzarity of the legal system and laws around animal welfare. It is fine to murder a pig with a hammer blow to the head or exposure to brutal gas asphyxiation. It's also fine to cut off a piglet's tail and balls with scissors and remove their teeth with pliers - but kick a pig when it's being herded to the killing floor and it's criminal behaviour. We really are a demonic and hopeless species.
@reedclippings8991
Жыл бұрын
I feel like I just watched my former self argue against veganism right before I went vegan.
@joefennell6220
Жыл бұрын
Hi! I’m Joe from the video (not Joey), and I wasn’t going to go on out of fear that I was not the sort of person Joey had in mind to talk to - but seeing your comment makes me really glad I did!
@isabellezablocki7447
Жыл бұрын
@@joefennell6220 Great job Joe!
@reedclippings8991
Жыл бұрын
@@joefennell6220 Thank you for making the discussion interesting and challenging! You represented consequentialism much better than I usually see it represented. Rooting for your vegan journey to be as good for you as mine is for me!
@the6ixthkind
Жыл бұрын
@@joefennell6220 Really appreciated your honesty in the discussion, Joe.
@joefennell6220
Жыл бұрын
@@reedclippings8991 Thank you mate!
@turbobhagwan
Жыл бұрын
This one was very nice and nuanced. Joey, you should do more philosophers and farmers, these are the gatekeepers for change!
@quiteatinganimals
Жыл бұрын
he’s doing so good at speaking with people.
@yanamclaughlin1644
Жыл бұрын
Agreed. I feel like his powers are charging up
@turbobhagwan
Жыл бұрын
"im a not disciplined freegan" hahaha, fancy philosophical way of saying I eat anything anytime.
@mkledits3679
Жыл бұрын
One of the best discussions you had Joey, this guy is very genuine and I have a feeling we’ll see more of him some time.
@joefennell6220
Жыл бұрын
Thanks man! I’m Joe ❤ and really am grateful to have had this conversation and get inspired again to stick to the real Vegan diet!
@snowdolphvov4193
Жыл бұрын
ok, it's worded this way @@katharinah.5759
@paulb8251
Жыл бұрын
@Katharina H. He never said veganism is a diet just he was going to eat a vegan diet which implies the food vegans eat.. why toss such a pointless comment out there at someone wanting to be vegan?
@michaelbrow1099
Жыл бұрын
@@katharinah.5759being a karen isn't needed
@jadejansen2417
10 ай бұрын
This was a great conversation between two intelligent guys. Also nice to see it was in Cambridge, I've lived there for 5 years.
@HazVegan
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for consistently advocating for the abolitionist vegan position Joey. 🌱 💚
@pacmanmcgavin5980
Жыл бұрын
Joey is hard at work saving the animals and I wish I could thank him in person
@quiteatinganimals
Жыл бұрын
true!
@PercivalBlakeney
Жыл бұрын
@Haz_Vegan Total abstinence IS immeasurably easier than any kind of moderation. - after St. Augustine. 😌
@pacmanmcgavin5980
Жыл бұрын
@@PercivalBlakeney I missed you.
@PercivalBlakeney
Жыл бұрын
@@pacmanmcgavin5980 Everyone says that until I start talking. 🤔
@Annibals
Жыл бұрын
One of the better interviewees. A conversation at a more sophisticated level but still the gaps were addressed by Joey, also successfully making conversions at those levels. It's great how you're well informed at advanced levels.
@mrSam3ooo
Жыл бұрын
I’m not sure you’ll read this but i hope you know how much of a legend you are bro. Literally making the world a better place! 👊🧡
@brandonevans406
Жыл бұрын
@@rondarkman. there you are again
@brandonevans406
Жыл бұрын
He truely is a legend 🙌🏻 he is doing good in this world unlike LOSER trolls with nothing better to do
@brandonevans406
Жыл бұрын
@@rondarkman. stop talking about yourself
@animalsarebeautifulpeople3094
Жыл бұрын
@@rondarkman. but you are a pro animal abuser directly responsible for untold number of innocent lives tortured in unwatchable ways
@rmac3217
Жыл бұрын
No mind was changed... Where do you vegans get this imagination from? He said he supports veganism but is a cheapskate right from the start...
@BeyondaThought
Жыл бұрын
What genuine guy, I have so much respect for this man for admitting his cognitive dissonance and changing his mind.
@GrumpyVeganGrandad
Жыл бұрын
Great that you put explanations of these different ideas and philosophies onscreen otherwise I wouldn't have known what you meant half the time
@pacmanmcgavin5980
Жыл бұрын
Neither would I. I’m a community college dropout
@Father_Veteran_Gamer_Artist
Жыл бұрын
"In the wild...." I could careless what happens in the wild, I want to be better than that.
@pacmanmcgavin5980
Жыл бұрын
Wild animals tho
@jonjonwp
Жыл бұрын
That was an incredible debate. Who wouldn't like honest Joe. Impressive debating skills from Joey, he knows all there is to know. Cosmic Skeptic could learn a lot from watching this. Is Joey the last street activist in GB now? There used to be so many.
@thomasjohnson308
Жыл бұрын
Much respect for that guy for examining his position and seeing the contradictions in it! I think this is a good example of how when you commit to consistency and logically engage with the facts that veganism is the only real answer. Every rationalization for eating meat can't escape the fundamental fact that we're talking about enslaving, torturing, and killing animals solely for our pleasure.
@cyberfunk3793
Жыл бұрын
Veganism is obviously not the only answer. The guilt tripping and empty claims don't work on most people because they simply don't share your moral views and don't accept them. Your own positions are contradictory where you advocate equal rights to all sentient beings but then don't start that "suffering prevention" in the animal kingdom where the level of suffering and methods used to kill prey cause much more of that suffering you claim to fight against. Why don't you stop the lions from biting the nuts of other animals first and then whine about the methods we use?
@Lucy-uv4hv
Жыл бұрын
Great conversation! I'm always impressed by people who sit down willing to listen, discuss their ideas and show that they're open about having their minds changed. Also really lovely moment when you stopped the debate to grab a coat for him! 😆
@martinacalcagno2126
Жыл бұрын
I'm vegan and antispeciesist, but I always found freeganism very interesting. Also things like buying second hand wool or leather (I mostly buy second hand stuff bcs I don't wanna support fast fashion)... I'm chosing not to do it because it makes me uncomfortable knowing that I'm wearing what should not be mine, but I wore my old leather boots to pieces (I'm not rich and when I became vegan I wasn't able to just go and buy new boots). I'm still wearing old wool (too consumed to be given away) and I don't feel good doing it, but ultimately I think this is a grey area and that I cannot do more than my best. I'm open to hearing other people's opinion on the subject
@pintw4379
Жыл бұрын
Agreed with you, I know someone who is freegan, he lives a fungal lifestyle ,does dumpster diving and hitch-hiking even he could have lived perfectly comfortable .actually I am kinda admire him but personally I can't no longer stand the taste of animals , it's funny because I used to love eating animals .
@martinacalcagno2126
Жыл бұрын
@@pintw4379 I get you on the taste thing! The fact is that now when I see meat, leather, wool, etc, I know what there is behind it and I just cannot see it as food/as materials I'm okay with using. I understand the ethics of freeganism, but in the long run it should lead to veganism (or veganism + freeganism), since scrap meat can only exist as long as meat consumption exists, etc... (for now, tho, it is probably something good (?))
@enabler2456
Жыл бұрын
@@pintw4379 fun·gal /ˈfəNGɡ(ə)l/ adjective of or caused by a fungus or fungi. "fungal diseases such as mildew" I guess spending time in dumpsters has its consequences!
@paulbooth77
Жыл бұрын
I've been vegan for a good few years now, but still wear leather & wool products I owned previously. I'm not going to ditch them as it would create the need to buy other items unnecessarily. I don't feel that using these items until the end of their life is ethically bad, just more sustainable.
@gharbadthewhoa2315
Жыл бұрын
@@pintw4379 what is fungal lifestyle? 🤩did you mean frugal?😁
@tarionp
Жыл бұрын
Great discussion ❤
@pacmanmcgavin5980
Жыл бұрын
It was as per usual. Joey is great at communicating
@brandonevans406
Жыл бұрын
Fantastic discussion, intelligent humans will get it 👍🏻
@pacmanmcgavin5980
Жыл бұрын
@Pacman McGavin you will not steal my husband, Lara.
@pacmanmcgavin5980
Жыл бұрын
@Pacman McGavin I own you, Lara.
@brandonevans406
Жыл бұрын
@Pacman McGavin pretty odd
@evelynschlosser8088
Жыл бұрын
This is how it's done! 💚 I love it. A respectful and open minded discussion and a change of mind because of being true and consistent with their own values. Thank you for that conversation. I really enjoyed it a lot.
@joefennell6220
Жыл бұрын
Thrilled you liked listening to it!
@wordsmithmofo
Жыл бұрын
So many ppl you have on I dislike because I don’t think they’re good ppl. They make all the excuses and they don’t seem to consider the idea of veganism as a viable choice for them. This guy was different I got a good feeling from him and I think there’s hope with him that he’ll make the change
@glkglkglkglk9193
Жыл бұрын
I wanna be this guy .....his transparency is what i aspire for
@GandalfTheSilver
Жыл бұрын
Very nice to see a productive discussion with someone knowledgeable on philosophy. Great video Joey.
@mcel6551
Жыл бұрын
Honest discussion of grey areas. Glad I listened to this one.
@BrentVis
Жыл бұрын
Big applause to Joe! Very honest conversation. We're looking at a future vegan here.
@mcc5295
Жыл бұрын
loving the outreach . great debate. awesome stuff. a step in the right direction to free more animals from suffering in the world
@pacmanmcgavin5980
Жыл бұрын
You said it, brother!
@yanamclaughlin1644
Жыл бұрын
Joey engaging with these philosophy and ethics students is glorious. A perfect moment in time to use logic aligned with love to break through dry dead end logic. They'll never forget these conversations.
@parameshnat
Жыл бұрын
Genuinely your most interesting conversation. Need more like this fella who have more than 2 brain cells to knock together...I'm still uncertain about where I stand between the two of your views, although definitely would never be fregan as I don't think it holds up from a consequentialist perspective.
@MrMking1991
Жыл бұрын
Your philosophical arguments have gotten so good in these recent debate videos. Excellent stuff 👍 I saw your videos almost 5 years ago now and they (and similar ones from Earthling Ed stand out in memory) are the reason I am vegan today. Will be 5 years in May ✊🥦 Keep it up!
@veryveganmom
Жыл бұрын
What a beautiful, intellectually honest conversation. Joey, your work is amazing.
@leviahimsa
Жыл бұрын
"Other animals". Humans and "other animals". Humans are just one type of animal. 👦🐵🐷 🐮🐰🐶🐻🐺🐹🐸
@MustardSkaven
Жыл бұрын
Maybe you've lived under a rock but when people say "animals" outside of a scientific context, they usually mean non-humans.
@leviahimsa
Жыл бұрын
@@MustardSkaven It sounds a bit odd to me, and I think words are important to have a better understanding of who we are defending from oppression. Like if I said "whites and races" or if I called females, "non-males", it's drawing an unusual line between humans and other animals. Many humans think they are not an animal and follow human supremacists beliefs. So using better words to describe other animals, will get us closer to reducing suffering. ✌️
@MustardSkaven
Жыл бұрын
@@leviahimsa It shouldn't sound odd to you. If it sounds odd to you, you definitely live under a rock. "animal" is commonly used to refer to non-humans, even by vegans.
@MustardSkaven
Жыл бұрын
@@leviahimsa That's all very great but it doesn't change the fact of the matter.
@leviahimsa
Жыл бұрын
@@MustardSkaven Some humans, including some vegans, still call other animals "it" too. It sounds odd still, I understand what they're saying. It doesn't mean I live under a rock. ✌️
@adorable3817
Жыл бұрын
You're so wonderful Joey 🥰🙏 I admire you, and love you for all you do. Keep it up 💞🤗
@anthonydude
Жыл бұрын
This interview highlights a very important point IMO: veganism is the anti-speciesism movement. Like racism, sexism, homophobia etc, it's just another stupid cognitive bias that we humans are prone to suffer from. It's great to see someone who is willing and able to self-reflect on this instead of become defensive.
@Soint
Жыл бұрын
One of your best ones Joey, bravo 👏
@JwalinBhatt
Жыл бұрын
This was an awesome debate Joey. Really like the wikipedia definition popups and summarizations in between. It was delighting to see you getting an upper hand over even a philosopher. I think anyone who is a true philosopher would have to be a vegan for sure. Alex has just fallen in my eyes.
@glkglkglkglk9193
Жыл бұрын
Man , he is so transparent wow ...
@empresscirilla7309
Жыл бұрын
Beautifully articulated Joey, keep spreading the message 💚
@JustJamey
Жыл бұрын
This was one of my faves that J Carbs has done! Kudus to the freegan for being so laid back. He had some interesting points! We need more conversations; less debate for the sake of winning for a certain tribe! Thank you. Keep on keeping on man! 🥦😁🥔💪🏼
@nolow_life
Жыл бұрын
One of my favorite recent discussions. Both Joe's have a great head on their shoulders
@_Crumpet
Жыл бұрын
Around the 20 minute mark the comparison between politics and veganism came up, and I think there's a very important difference - if you tell someone they should go vegan, they can make as little or as much of a change as they like. A 'middle ground' appproach makes more sense in politics because when you're voting you either take it or leave it with the policies that the party wants to put in place (somewhat, at least). With veganism the only middle ground is how much someone decides to implement things themselves, so you should advocate truthfully and completely. Great video as always, Joey :)
@Masilya111
Жыл бұрын
Very interesting talk, especially what you said about reductionism.
@ryker4549
Жыл бұрын
AWESOME very intelligent discussion HOPE THE GUY GOES VEGAN 🌱🌱🌱🌱🌱
@bazza5699
Жыл бұрын
such a honest and frank exchange rarely seen in these kind of debates.. great work joe and joey.
@MosesMode
Жыл бұрын
The problem with eating roadkill or any other meat that you've acquired without paying for it is that it normalizes eating flesh. Even on the utilitarian point of view, this will surely lead to more suffering. Imagine if as a society we adopted the view that it's okay to eat human flesh as long as you didn't contribute to the person's death. To me it's blatantly obvious that a world like this would place far less value on human lives, which would lead to more suffering. The moral taboo on cannibalism teaches us that human life is sacred and human death is a tragic thing that should not be used to derive sensory pleasure. The same taboo should be extended to animals, and by violating this you are signaling to others that animals lives don't matter, their death isn't tragic, so it's okay to eat their corpses. Edit: I should have finished the video before writing this. Joey makes essentially the same point at the end. Amazing conversation.
@MosesMode
Жыл бұрын
@@rondarkman. It's normal in that it's a widely practiced behavior, but it's also normal for people to say that they are against animal abuse. These two things contradict each other.
@CptBumFlufff
Жыл бұрын
Really like both of those Joes
@Comfy_Salmon
Жыл бұрын
Class as always Joey! 👌 🙌
@pacmanmcgavin5980
Жыл бұрын
Joey is a very classy man
@WhyArentYouVegan
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for speaking up against animal cruelty.
@Akash_Vegan
Жыл бұрын
Thank you Joey! And Joey too. Great conversation.
@terkfranks1538
Жыл бұрын
Seems like the 1st step is making the connection. Even though we all know fundamentally that a steak or a hamburger or wings come from animals or more accurately IS/WAS AN ANIMAL, the meat industry products have become accepted in society and disconnected from the actual killing of a sentient life. We need to help everyone make the connection. 🙃
@lilyveg2649
Жыл бұрын
I liked this guy! He was so honest and he looked kind. Thank Joey for that conversation!
@etincardiaego
Жыл бұрын
A consequentialist can say that death is bad even if it doesnt cause you suffering for a number of reasons (1) deprives you of the rest of your life (2) violates preferences of a psychologically continuous being (3) rights, yeah, rights, you can easily include rights in a consequentialist framework, like Mill or Sidgwick. Once you ground them on utility, you can just appeal to the right, you dont need to always appeal to your criterion of goodness, utility, if you have justified a rule or right based decision procedure.
@meinekeman161
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, I always get a bit frustrated when fellow consequentialists don’t mention the deprivation of future utility. Even if you could hypothetically unalive someone without any suffering, it’s almost always wrong, as you’re preventing them from experiencing future happiness. I think this fits pretty well with our moral intuitions, too. We would be against doing the suffering-free unaliving UNLESS the being would experience a net negative utility for the rest of their life. In practice, this means we would advocate for the Platonic ideal of mercy unalivings: no harm in the act, and the prevention of major suffering in the future. I find this very palatable.
@etincardiaego
Жыл бұрын
@@meinekeman161 I completely agree
@adinasarvari2934
Жыл бұрын
We need this human in the movement! He would be such a good advocate for the animals. He has charisma and he’s so smart. 🙌🏼
@natexxi
Жыл бұрын
This conversation was a superb example of two intellectual individuals philosophising in its raw form to reach an final view point that makes sense without letting ego interfere with the objective. A class act from both men 👏 👏👏 love to see it.
@watch-Dominion-2018
Жыл бұрын
15:20 - "abolishing raype is a less good outcome than allowing a little bit of raype"
@ineax7447
Жыл бұрын
He has a great philosophical mindset. He understood and admitted the real reason why he still eats animals.
@kalamg
Жыл бұрын
U r stupid btw
@ValeriaRossellini
Жыл бұрын
Great video, VFTA . Thanks 💗💗💗💗.
@melaniestatik2923
Жыл бұрын
Joey thank you! Until every cage is empty!!!
@Vegan4them
9 ай бұрын
I think this is the most intellectually stimulating vegan debate I’ve ever seen. WAY TO GO JOEY!!! The work you go does make activists (including myself.)
@bmanagement4657
Жыл бұрын
I dont support the 'all or nothing' view of a movement. When it comes to food we are a 'no meat' home, but we still buy dogfood and we get between 1-3 pizzas a month with dairy cheese. I haven't purchased leather in about 8 years, but if I have to because there isn't a proper non-leather substitute I won't feel too guilty because I take care of everything I purchase. I still have a 23 year old leather jacket and I'm still wearing the leather shoes I bought in 2015. I'm far from perfect, but my harm ratio on average stays pretty low.
@jackwilliamson1897
Жыл бұрын
Every time i finish watching these long chats I feel like I've strengthened my armour. Thank you Joey
@kaijuvegan
Жыл бұрын
That was a really good conversation. Your communication of the reasoning itself was on fire here. 👏
@absw6129
Жыл бұрын
Killing someone even if nobody suffers from it can still be anti-utilitarian, because we are not taking into account the potential wellbeing the one being killed could generate for themselves and others
@Narcissism-TheDarknessintheWor
Жыл бұрын
*This.* Utilitarianism is *soooo* inconsistent, it's unreal.
@absw6129
Жыл бұрын
@@Narcissism-TheDarknessintheWor I'm not a utilitarian, but how is that inconsistent?
@TheBroLuke
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the vid 💚 I like to think that for every antivegan who stands against you, there are millions of animals who stand with you.
@ryker4549
Жыл бұрын
Why does everyone say MEAT=== the ANIMALS are LIVING BREATHING CREATURES of a DIFFERENT SPECIES so I feel they say MEAT to make themselves FEEL GOOD instead of calling the ANIMALS what they TRULY ARE COW PIG CHICKEN SHEEP ETC.....
@watch-Dominion-2018
Жыл бұрын
to not think of the animals as living beings. They are cowards who can only stomach tortured dead animals if they refer to them as a thing rather than a being.
@pacmanmcgavin5980
Жыл бұрын
@@watch-Dominion-2018 yes, to make themselves feel better.
@watch-Dominion-2018
Жыл бұрын
@@pacmanmcgavin5980 are you the vegan Pacman McGavin or the carnist one? Can't often tell
@pacmanmcgavin5980
Жыл бұрын
@@watch-Dominion-2018 I am vegan. And I am the one and only McGavin!
@watch-Dominion-2018
Жыл бұрын
@@pacmanmcgavin5980 i keep seeing channels with your name trashing veganism tho
@BeyondaThought
Жыл бұрын
Joey would never go back to eating animals if he had a medical condition like IBS, he would do everything he can to stay vegan and not harm animals.
@pustekuchen2320
Жыл бұрын
I love you mate, thanks for your inspiration! ❤
@pacmanmcgavin5980
Жыл бұрын
And I love you!
@RIKSOUNDZ
Жыл бұрын
lol ive always wanted to meet joey and have this conversation. im a potwash in a kitchen and been vegan for 2 years. So much food gets wasted. Alot of dairy and egg product gets chucked from the fridge if it cant be sold to customers. I am fine with eating it. I ate it for 20 years. I wont eat meat being chucked though.
@bazza5699
Жыл бұрын
it's an interesting debate, where does it end.. if someone chucked away a leather jacket does it make it okay to wear it?
@RIKSOUNDZ
Жыл бұрын
@@bazza5699 ive bought a leathe r jacket from a chairty shop before i was vegan. Double whammy
@bazza5699
Жыл бұрын
@@RIKSOUNDZ lol not sure that counts.. haha
@planetofthevegans880
Жыл бұрын
SKETCHDABLZ Gee, that's so hilarious lol You know damn well that a vegan wouldn't be sticking eggs or dairy products in their mouth, it's something they'd vomit right back up and wouldn't consider as food. And don't lie, you eat the meat too, troll
@RIKSOUNDZ
Жыл бұрын
@Planet of the Vegans bro what is wrong with you I've been vegan for 2 years I ate meat egg and dairy for 20 years before it went vegan. I'm not exactly going to pretend to vomit over cake or icecream that's going to waste. It's called freeganism
@Hari-888
Жыл бұрын
You are doing god's work my friend. You have my highest level of respect.
@lauratanln
Жыл бұрын
Very interesting indeed. It's always great conversations with people who are sensible, reasonable with intelligence. With people unable to think beyond tradition, holy books, it's often exasperating just to listen to.
@jonathanmitchell8698
Жыл бұрын
I don't think I quite agree with a rights based moral system. It feels like an attempt at applying post hoc reasoning to the complicated system of moral thinking that arises naturally in our minds. In other words, I think our morality is driven by non-logical emotional processing, and I don't think it's reducible to an axiomatically rooted logical system. It's not so much that I disagree with rights or with debating moral issues, but I think we should view the "logic" that we engage in as a tool for exploring the landscape of intuitive emotion driven morality. I think this is ultimately what we are doing anyways. Most people would not simply accept counterintuitive moral positions that are entailed by their preferred moral theory. Instead, they would view those counterintuitive results as challenges to their moral system; they would view these results as evidence that their moral theory is in need of refining. But this indicates to me that moral philosophy isn't really about discovering a true (or even internally consistent) moral theory, but instead, it is about getting really deeply engaged in the psychological/sociological rules that tend to guide our behavior, and thinking about how we feel about where these rules take us under the most extreme of circumstances. So in the context of veganism, I think the goal should be to get people to think about how they really feel about the consequences of living with a human-supremacist/carnist set of beliefs/values. It's not about proving a logical inconsistency in those beliefs and values. In other words, I think vegan activism is about doing basically what people like Joey Carbstrong and Earthling Ed are already doing, but I think we should be careful about how we present the moral philosophy of veganism because it's easy for people to hide their emotions on the topic under a layer of logical argumentation, and it's also easy to find logical inconsistencies or ambiguities in a strictly rights based approach to veganism (without reflecting on the inconsistencies that are also present in any moral system that attempts to justify animal exploitation).
@cleverestx
Жыл бұрын
Joey has really upgraded his higher intellectual debate chops. Awesome talk.
@mcc5295
Жыл бұрын
loved the video
@triptripp1873
Жыл бұрын
My mother is all about reducing. she firmly believes that if we made meat extremely expensive and much much less, then everything would be fine. There's so many problems with this, and the main one is that it continues to look at them as food. And realistically speaking, even if we end up reaching a point where there's only very high standard farms left, do we honestly think that they will stay strict? Never-mind the intrinsic rights that are being violated, as long as they are seen as property, the owners will find a way to get them to be more profitable. On another note, i do find myself in tricky social situations where i end up saying that reducing is better than not reducing, and that its better to take it slow rather than do nothing. Sadly, i cant seem to reach the point where i also discuss how just reducing is completely ridiculous when it comes to looking at animals as individuals. i try my best to advocate as much as i can, but i also have to pick and choose my battles, because it takes time for people to change their mind. i don't want to seem pushy, yet i also want to push them to think differently. its tricky, but if i keep at it, maybe one day they will understand my perspective. and hell even if they don't, at least they will reduce their animal consumption, which is better than nothing.
@skygardner9770
Жыл бұрын
Damn right u create activists joey one of yours right here
@BoCore
Жыл бұрын
ooo this was gooooood - now he is right there with the verbal agility and intellectuals, very nice questions, interesting thoughts, vibrant debate, loved that! Thanks for this!
@TFx2TV
Жыл бұрын
@25:56 the face of someone who's just turned vegan, he's realised the hypocrisy of his position. This was another great debate, keep it up!
@mcc5295
Жыл бұрын
great video joey
@pacmanmcgavin5980
Жыл бұрын
My husband and I watch Joeys videos together
@CaroAbebe
4 күн бұрын
That was an excellent conversation. Thanks, Joey. What an honest young man this other Joe appears to be! I hope he goes vegan. Once you know why it’s not hard at all ❤
@suchawolfy
Жыл бұрын
I love this convo. Great work as always Joey.
@Obez45
Жыл бұрын
But is someone dying naturally a good thing? It would imply a lot of suffering to slowly get sick, weak and breakdown? wouldn't it be better to just end it at some point? This applies to both human and animals?
@gorazdkp4903
Жыл бұрын
Not many have the capacity to change their mind and admit it publicly.
@FurryTailor
Жыл бұрын
Re: the Labour Party there's no evidence for what he claims that being centrist is more successful. It seems to me like being centrist just allows the right to move the while political spectrum slowly further right. The right wing media has a lot of power over UK politics and will allow a centrist Labour candidate to not be criticised while going hard against any left wing politician. The system is also constrained by the first past the post voting, if more parties were represented with alternative voting or proportional representation then both main parties would need to do more for the citizens in order to maintain their position. It stops people voting with their hearts e.g. for the green party because they know they are just making it more likely for the conservatives to get in if they do. This isn't translatable to animal rights really. Joey though -- careful, studies have been done by faunalytics / effective altruism which does look like it proves this guys position that advocating for veganism vs reducitarianism is less effective. Stay radical Joey. Politics needs true principled leftists, animals need vegan animal rights activists, the world wants us to confirm to the centre average view but the center is artificially awful and favours bad ethical outcomes due to capitalist unregulated free markets. It's impossible to measure the good that you do by being principled just like it would have been impossible to measure the good that individual abolitionists did.
@bazza5699
Жыл бұрын
couldn't have worded it better myself.. although i tried.. lol
@brookie_cuqui
Жыл бұрын
Moral consistency and vulnerability through honesty are very attractive qualities, Joes!
@JaromEubanks
Жыл бұрын
I actually agree with him. I've always been a consequentialist vegan.
@Daz19
Жыл бұрын
I always see this missrepresention of consequentlaism by Vegans and non vegans. Granting rights is essesntial in a consequentilasists ethical frame work as rights have significant utilty. Rights are not some magical abstract object, they're a social construct we grant for it's utilty and instrumental value. The consequnece of perpetuating and enforcing rights is that it helps create a world with the least suffering and greatest wellbeing for ALL the individual affected. The consequence of not doing so is suffering. If cruel acts could occur on a secret island, then people would suffer knowing that could occur. A consequentialait society would seek to prevent such a causes of suffering, rights being the justification.
@vegtalk8920
Жыл бұрын
This was an amazing debate. Cleared up some thoughts of mine too. I still don't feel comfortable when people try to be better by eating less meat or becoming vegetarian for example and they get harassed by some vegans for not being perfect enough. Wouldn't being supportive towards people that try be more efficient?
@isabellezablocki7447
Жыл бұрын
Indeed people are addicted to meat and animal products. That's the whole difficulty for people to go vegan. And that's why people go at length to defend their consumption of animals. We need to appeal to their sense of morality and inspire them.
@MrDRPARNASSUS
Жыл бұрын
Hey joey that solidifies it... Your outreach has certainly reached, covered & superceded what even the highest philosophically articulate animal butchering human carnivore wannabe can through at you sir... that's next level advocacy at its finest sir... You're indeed saluted joey. Outstanding stuff sir !
@VegViking
Жыл бұрын
Food for thought book recommendations relevant to the philosophy and advocacy arguments here: Moral Tribes - by Joshua Green (especially to counter the misunderstandings around utilitarianism but much more of value in it as well) Change of Heart - by Nick Cooney (not perfect, but some useful knowledge and strategies from a veteran activist. Best to go into it knowing he's more of a reductionist so be forewarned.)
@fergusologhlen8426
Жыл бұрын
Joey I get your interviewee’s view point … my friends are rugby players and I spent a weekend in Yorkshire recently with them .. staying at a friend’s house I’ve known for 35 years ..however topics changed after many beers as I was eating different food and I nearly got kicked out of the house for bringing up my lifestyle choice of veganism and suggesting they should watch Conspiracy and Game Changers.. they took it very personally..it got quite nasty as they don’t get the philosophical view point at all and don’t understand it at all!
@willkenway
Жыл бұрын
Why does Joey always look around when the other person is talking. It's annoying and distracting, and clearly he's not completely focused on what the other person is saying. I enjoy his work, but this is a common theme in his videos.
@GreenVegan816
Жыл бұрын
Highly enjoyed this debate. Joey, you are a king!
@parameshnat
Жыл бұрын
I think a good way to advocate for reducitarianism which doesn't feel like it's done animals a huge dirty is to say cut your animal product consumption by 20% each month, rather than something nebulous like "reduce overall". That way, the limit tends to zero regardless of where you start from. It also gives people time to get used to the new diet. They're far less likely to mess it up and blame it on veganism... It's kinda how I got to 0%, although when I started, I didn't make that cut due to animal suffering, more for environmentalism. Once I had reduced to like once a month (after about 4 years), I was already more amenable to changing, and when the moral argument was made to me, the switch was instantaneous. But I guess what worked for me won't work for everyone else. Your point at the end of eating meat reinforcing stereotypes of animal objectification is absolutely right, and is what is making me uncertain of the approach I laid out above...
@planetofthevegans880
Жыл бұрын
No.
@mattpastro3247
Жыл бұрын
Love this series Joey. This discussion is right up there with my favourites.
@thegratefulsteve
Жыл бұрын
This was my absolute favorite conversation I've seen of yours Joey. Very well done comrade. Peace be with you.
@sentientbean9853
Жыл бұрын
I'm vegan. Oh, are you vegan? No, I'm freegan. So you're freegan? Nah, I'm a carnist.
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