To me a cameo is a glimpse at a character. A first appearance you get to see who that character is and learn their name and some of what they can do. A first full appearance they are part of the story. Now the first appearance of Gambit and like characters when dealing with publication dates consider continuity. Great job in breaking it down.
@chrisingram5777
3 жыл бұрын
Well said.
@AidenHackley
3 жыл бұрын
I've never even really thought about the distinction tbh, typically I just go off if what Key Collector says
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Hahaha Key Collector is pretty accurate out of all the apps I will say
@paulholloway9760
3 жыл бұрын
Key Collector makes a lot of mistakes on appearances, I don't trust them at all.
@ironspiderman100
3 жыл бұрын
I feel a first appearance is a first appearance. No cameo, no "oh they were only in one panel etc." The first time the character is seen is their first appearance. Hulk 180, ASM 299, etc. should just be strict first appearances in my opinion
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Our definition tends to agree with you! we're a little stricter with ours but your opinion is valid!
@ironspiderman100
3 жыл бұрын
@@MintHunterComics Nothing wrong with be strict on comic books!
@ColsonsComics
3 жыл бұрын
I think cameos are smaller appearances with a few panels like you said in the beginning. First appearances may feature the character in the cover and have a large presence in the comic. Just what I thought.
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
That aligns with our definition! Cheers DK League!
@joelatorre
3 жыл бұрын
Your getting that Carnage issue signed and getting that awesome yellow signature series label yes!!! 😆👍
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Can't wait!
@frogartti
Жыл бұрын
If you’re slabbing comics, the most important thing should be 1st cover appearances.
@PreservingSweetness
3 жыл бұрын
Looking forward to more of this type of content. Thanks.
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
More to come!
@MrDeathstar69
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for covering this topic. I really enjoyed you explaining the difference.
@davebratton1702
3 жыл бұрын
I think the Superman: MoS arm shot of Doomsday, although in a few panels with the character being named, falls into the cameo category given that it really shows about half of one arm of the character. My two cents. Terrific video!
@fanglord13
3 жыл бұрын
On Darkseid, and following your rules, Jimmy Olsen 135 is his first appearance. Appears on two panels, dialogue across two panels, plus has a look closer to what we know today. Another odd is Grail (Darkseid’s daughter). Justice League 40 is a cameo (one panel only, face concealed), FCBD divergence is her first appearance (multiple panels, dialogue), and Justice League 41 is first full
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Good catch Rob - I missed that one! I agree with Grail
@mikegonzalez503
3 жыл бұрын
Hulk 181, to me, is the comic that truly matters for Wolverine.
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Most would agree BUT 180 meets all of our criteria!
@azb-comics
3 жыл бұрын
Agree
@jorgeflores5522
3 жыл бұрын
Great video as always! Thanks for the info.
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching!
@travisscharf5322
3 жыл бұрын
As a collector I just get both. So I don't miss out.
@mtgtribalnation4845
3 жыл бұрын
I like both. Because it puts a spotlight on 2 or 3 books not just one. And it makes good conversation, witch is a healthy thing.
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Amen to this
@andrewcai5042
3 жыл бұрын
Yay discussing comic book language/terminology!
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Woot woot!
@MPScrimshaw
3 жыл бұрын
The weirdest cameo that I am aware of is Hawkeye versus Deadpool 0, which is the first cameo appearance of Jane Foster Thor and Spider-Gwen, which is so random.
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
AWWWW! I should have added that one in here! Doi.... I think that's a cameo for sure: no dialogue, no name drop, just one (it was just one right?) panel of them in halloween costumes
@MPScrimshaw
3 жыл бұрын
@@MintHunterComics it's actually three or four panels but they're all the same because they're in the background and there is no dialogue
@luxraylogan
3 жыл бұрын
For me if they are shown in full(like wolverine in 180) it's a first appearance. The only time I consider it a cameo is if it's like a shadow or a piece of an arm or something like that(unless it's throughout the book like killer crock). I think the 181/300 FA crowd are just salty that they paid a lot for not a first appearance.
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Hahaha thats what I think as well, just a bit of salty peeps unable to let it go!
@marioch4259
3 жыл бұрын
For Me if you can see the character in full, has dialogue its a first appearance, even more if he shows his abilities or powers
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Powers should be an extra category I agree
@naureennaqvi8442
3 жыл бұрын
I love shadow of the bat I have 22 copies of issue 19 first appearance of tally man . My aunt was trying to get me more then one book but she just bought a lot of the same copies I don’t mind tho it’s a good book
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Tally man! what an underrated DC character for sure
@dougcowley6592
3 жыл бұрын
Was hoping you'd discuss Trigon's 1st appearance. That's a tough one..
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
New teen titans 2, he has dialogue with Raven
@gman-ts8bf
3 жыл бұрын
Great video, really enjoying your videos, keep it up
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks my man!
@KThayerart
3 жыл бұрын
Excellent work!
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Ayyyy thank you!
@MrStinkycableguy
3 жыл бұрын
Excellent video and certainly a good topic of discussion. Thanks James!
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Glad it was helpful!
@timfinney9468
3 жыл бұрын
Love the videos and your candid comments!
@Supertomscustoms
3 жыл бұрын
There's only one way to settle this debate and that's to eliminate the "cameo" distinction completely. If they appear in a comic for the first time, regardless of numbers of panels or dialogue, then that's their "First appearance" and there's nothing to argue about. Now that doesn't mean the market can't still favor their second appearance, which honestly is almost always determined by which cover is better.
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
I like the distinction of cameo. I don't look at it so literally as the "first app" the majority of collectors use cameos to describe a soft 1st app
@cardsandcomics
3 жыл бұрын
I think most people's opinion are heavily influenced by how many copies of each comic they have
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Hahaha I think that's what got us into this mislabeling habit in the first place!
@MrMav42
3 жыл бұрын
For me I reckon the name drop is a must
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
That a pretty big one for me personally - most are saying it's preferred not required
@stevewhite4533
3 жыл бұрын
These distinctions will be argued for the rest of history, but I like your take on this. For me, I am OG and when a character appears, it is a first appearance
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Appreciate your take Steve!
@maverick1973131313
3 жыл бұрын
Nice attempt to put structure to the discussion. Ultimately, though, because comics are a form of art, people will add their own bias and subjectivity. Thus, usually the book that is more well liked or has better cover appeal wins the discussion....even when it clearly is not the "technically" correct option.
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Technically speaking these issues to our definition are the 1st apps. -a lot of time it's the first FULL apps that people go nuts for
@migueljuan5374
3 жыл бұрын
This is similar to Bishop's first appearance on Uncanny X-Men 282 and 283. Regardless, I would still buy both cameo and full appearances. Maybe it's just me completing the set Good video as well. Informative.
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Miguel!
@jimidunlap8919
3 жыл бұрын
Ha, i just found the first ratcetcher in shadow of the bat like 2 days ago. #43 i think it was. Looking for the next one now. I get first appearances but def kills me when i just wanna full run of what im reading.
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
There ya go! you've now got an entry!
@azb-comics
3 жыл бұрын
Great vid! I think a first appearance is if you see the caracter for the very first time and he is actually in the storry. I only think you can say it's a first cameo if you see the caracter just quick and a littel nothing more the caracter is not in the storry at all. Like ASM 360 and 361. A perfect example
@williamsantana6594
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for sharing your knowledge I really appreciate it.
@devonscalf3786
3 жыл бұрын
They there they appear
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Hahahah you're not wrong!
@jerrydwallace7040
3 жыл бұрын
I enjoyed your cameo in this video. Newer subscriber. Thanks for the videos. Curious on your thoughts on that Miles Morales previews sale for like $9000
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
I think its a bit silly! But I see the perspective on it
@RobinComics
3 жыл бұрын
Great video; killer Croc's and Jason's first appearance/cameo is interesting alright. Lots of confusion around this one. Still love my Batman 357 though :)
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Still a great book!
@fergushalliday9662
3 жыл бұрын
Cameos Vs full appearances is such a hard thing to define however I would lean on the side of a canoe being up to 1 or 2 panels and not really integral to that particular comics story and anything more than this a first appearance.
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Interesting definition! not too far from what we came up with!
@MoneyballComics
3 жыл бұрын
To be considered a "First Appearance," you need to see the character's face. Therefore, I would consider your Doomsday example to still be a "(First) Cameo." On the other hand, Miracle Molly's first appearance would be Batman #106 because of the criteria you used, along with her face being shown.
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
I appreciate your take on it! I know lots who would agree
@stephens4175
3 жыл бұрын
I would love to hear what you think about Fantastic Four 67 vs Thor 165 Adam Warlock as Him, they always call that issue 67 a cameo, but he has a full reveal and a lot of dialogue in a full conversation.
@mcewb726
3 жыл бұрын
I think if the character just appears in the background of a frame with no name or any mention then its not a first appearances but if they are part of the story then it counts. but i just go by key collector or the general consensus tbh. Great vid man! hope you smash that 8k subs soon!
@brickhunter9537
3 жыл бұрын
To me cameo app is like Stan Lee showing up in MCU movies. Cameo app should pass the test: if you remove Stan Lee camo that MCU movie is complete without it affecting the story line or hiccup in any way. For example if you remove wolverine and his dialogue from last panels of Hulk 180, nothing changes, Hulk 180 story would be complete. In contrast if you remove gambit and all dialogue from X-men annual, comic would not make any sense.
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Hahaha I appreciate and respect the analogy!
@jabezcreed
3 жыл бұрын
Only one I disagree with is the Doomsday case. I would call the punching hand panels a cameo as well.
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
I tend to agree - but if sticking to our definition it has to be (Plus it is an entire page)
@sirpuss5887
3 жыл бұрын
First appearance for me is 1 panel and dialogue with a name added so the character can’t be retcon. Jason Todd’s first appearance is... ehhhhh just a whole retcon. People should also talk about Mystique cameo more and Darkside.
@ComicKingpins
3 жыл бұрын
Awesome vid on a very controversial topic! I tend to agree with the majority of these.
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Face! yes this video was very fun to make (even if I was a bit intimidated making it lol)
@gusgoddin6316
2 жыл бұрын
Great video!
@patterparker8024
3 жыл бұрын
Sometimes I buy the cameos because they are a cheaper option
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Smart man! especially since some of them are the first appearance! like X men annual 14!
@davidweir9136
3 жыл бұрын
Great video
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the visit!
@dajikbatarang1
2 жыл бұрын
What about Batman 655, Damian had a couple of panels and dialogue. I think that issue is considered a cameo.
@comicjourney
3 жыл бұрын
Great breakdown, for me the most incorrect cameo vs first appearance is Conan 23 and 24. In 23 Red Sonja has a ton of panels action sequences but 24 has always been considered the first appearance because she's on the cover. Doesn't make any sense to me
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Ooh good choice, yeah there's no way that's a cameo but people.love the other cover!
@comicjourney
3 жыл бұрын
@@MintHunterComics You could make a whole video just on that controversy alone. Cover appearance or not, Conan 23 is absolutely the first Full Appearance
@philiparsenault1043
3 жыл бұрын
thor 363 vs 364. thor as a frog
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Good classic debates right there!
@ImperiusFlex
3 жыл бұрын
Still have to disagree on Gambit. If a tv series accidentally aired episode 4 before three and a character was introduced would you claim 4 was their first appearance? Awesome vid.
@stevenschaller1672
3 жыл бұрын
Your semi local to me.Before covid had you ever been to the Lehigh valley comic cons!? They were held at the LCCC in schnecksville!?every other month.
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Never been!
@stevenschaller1672
3 жыл бұрын
@@MintHunterComics If they are ever held again you must attend! It's a pretty good sized show with a large variety of vendors! Cosplay, artists,food,etc! Keep updated thru the website.Lehigh valley comic con .com
@rafmora3970
3 жыл бұрын
Brief appearance and not be part of the main story = to cameo to me
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
I appreciate your take!
@johncummings9621
3 жыл бұрын
First Appearance of Doomsday's Hand!!
@TheJohno95
Жыл бұрын
To me, as far as my own collecting, a cameo and a first appearance are the same thing. This is how I buy my books. As far the the crowd vote, I can see all sides of the issue. Just had a huge throwdown the other day with some people over the first appearance of the venom suit. To me, it's like the Gambit first appearance. Yes, it was intended to be X-Men #266, but the annual beat it to the punch. In this case, it's about publication time. So many people want Secret Wars #8 to be the first appearance of the suit. BUT, ASM #252 beat it to publication by about 8 months. There is no arguing that point. When a few tried, I had to ask: "So, is Wolverine Origins #1 Wolverine's first appearance because it's his origin?" Obviously not. The Hulk #180 vs. #181 fight has been going for decades now. At one point, it didn't seem like it was an issue. Hulk #180 is the FIRST CAMEO APPEARANCE of Wolverine. But, I think you nailed it when you said that people just want that pretty cover to #181 to be the first because he's on it and it's a big deal. Speaking personally, I want them both! I have #180 and I definitely want #181. The oddball thing with appearances, though, is the exact opposite seems to be true with Darkseid. No one seems to argue that Jimmy Olsen #134 is his first appearance, even though it's more of a cameo than Wolverine's first. Sometimes there is just no rhyme or reason to the formula. One thing that has become an issue with the advent of the online Fandom Databases is what some first appearances are now. I bring this up because I saw your video on First Cover Appearances right before this and Tomb of Dracula comes to mind. Dracula seemed like a safe bet. First appears in his own mag. Easy to keep up with. Now, since there is an issue of the ancient Marvel series Suspense that has a short story where a person reveals they are Dracula, that seems to be the first Dracula appearance in Marvel. Same with the villains from the Rom: Spaceknight comic, the Dire Wraiths. Rom #1 is the first appearance of Rom and his arch-enemies. Easy enough. Not so fast! Now they're saying some of the random monsters in Limbo in Avengers #10 are banished Dire Wraiths. Just when you think you have a full set, something drags you back in...
@buddyholmes08
3 жыл бұрын
I think the lesson to be learned from this video is. Just collect more comic books lol
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Sure! hahahaha
@BigRichfrank
3 жыл бұрын
Thor 229 has a add in it with wolverine. It came out the same month as hulk180 .the add is for hulk 181..What is that called?? Lol.
@joshindia4962
2 жыл бұрын
Mine is spiderman 2099 his first should be a cameo
@craixe1
2 ай бұрын
So gambit’s first appearance is x-men annual 14 then?
@MintHunterComics
2 ай бұрын
Oh yeah. Big time
@alexavani6165
3 жыл бұрын
your criteria for 1st appearance is flawed. For example Hulk 181 is 1st appearance because Hukk 180 is just letting you know next issue will be about Wolverine. So the story the character is in is 1st appearance not the last panel advertising the next issue.
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
I appreciate your take! this isn't my criteria though it's a communal criteria. and despite it previewing the next issue it meets our communal guidelines which objectively lists it as a first app
@robertweikel5796
3 жыл бұрын
I really think a lot of books are past the point of no return with books that have been heavily invested in already. Like Hulk 181 or Uncanny X-men 268 (6? Brain fart). Shadow of the Bat run please lol
@vintagegizmoscollection1282
3 жыл бұрын
I don't know why folks make a big issue of any comics.. Just enjoy the comic books.. and movies
@paulholloway9760
3 жыл бұрын
You managed to take an already contentious and convoluted discussion and complicate it even further. IH 180 is Wolverine's first appearance in a published comic book. Fact. It's also a cameo appearance by any *reasonable* definition of a cameo. You now seem to be creating a new argument by creating new definitions that simply aren't needed.
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
I didn't do squat actually I'm literally reporting on what the community considers guidelines for cameo vs. first appearance. That is the overwhelming majority's take on 180.
@paulholloway9760
3 жыл бұрын
@@MintHunterComics A poll of 327 people is the overwhelming majority? IH 180 is Wolverine's first appearance in a published comic book. I've never heard anybody dispute that. The distinction between IH 180 and IH 181 is that IH 181 is his first "full appearance", which is what you call it yourself. Which makes no sense at all because if IH 180 isn't a "full" appearance like IH 181, then it would go to follow that it's a "cameo" appearance, otherwise you don't need to use the word "full". So it seems to me that for some reason your only issue with the Wolverine appearance in IH 180 is you DON'T consider it a cameo appearance, although the vast majority of the community in my experience does. My issue is that you seem to be making the case that a cameo and a first appearance are two separate things when they can actually be one and the same thing, as in the case of Wolverine. In other words, a cameo can be a first appearance, yet you seem to be arguing against that; you're also the first person I've ever seen/heard make this argument. Out of curiosity, if I were to state that IH 182 is the third appearance of Wolverine, would you agree with that?
@danniculescu4512
3 жыл бұрын
If a cameo has 1-2 panels, sorry but for me it s not the first appearance
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
That's why we say 2 or more and dialogue preferred. I go even further and I say it needs a name drop!
@geekimusprime
3 жыл бұрын
lol the market will always dictate
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Not if we stick to our defenition!
@chrisingram5777
3 жыл бұрын
Gambit for sure is wrong, in my opinion.
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Agreed
@Lindsey_Lockwood
10 ай бұрын
So here's where the problem with the word "cameo" actually lies and why it should be eventually be eliminated for usage in comic collecting. It's completely arbitrary... Lets say I sued someone in court for telling me they were selling me a first full appearance of wolverine and they sold me a 180. Would a jury find my arguement compelling if I said "well most collectors agree that to be a full appearance you need more than one panel". No of course not. I wouldn't even be allowed to make that arguement because it would be considered hearsay. Also the opposition could hire a "comic expert" who disagrees with "most collectors" to say yes obviously any full visual appearance of the character at all is by definition a "full appearance". Simply feeling like a "full appearance" means more than one panel is also completely arbitrary and also does not correspond to the actual definition of the word cameo meaning "a small part" which could mean multiple frames as the word small is arbitrary. Legally speaking the wording of cameo vs full appearance should eventually be replaced with single frame vs multiple frame appearance if it's going to hold up in a civil suit.
@MintHunterComics
10 ай бұрын
Well said!
@naureennaqvi8442
3 жыл бұрын
And I apologize for all the comments I made 😂
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Never apologize! hahaha
@scott6261
3 жыл бұрын
Cameo doesn't have to be a first appearance as well
@RobRoyR8R
3 жыл бұрын
What you think of this is fine, but what is accepted matters. If we have to answer to you, that's fine. I say that you should have both. Just in case.
@naureennaqvi8442
3 жыл бұрын
Good news I’m going to upgrade my membership the comic book I was gonna get sold out so I figured I’ll just upgrade
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Oh hell yeah! Welcome to the extended club!
@FascinatingFlounder
3 жыл бұрын
Wolverines “cameo” feels more like a first appearance to me
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
It still may to many people! but by our criteria it's bumped up
@brickhunter9537
3 жыл бұрын
@@MintHunterComics in that case Using the same criteria, isn’t Venoms 1st app ASM 299 not 300?
@JernosComicsPopCulture
3 жыл бұрын
It is both. It is a first appearance, in cameo.
@e2comiccollector101
3 жыл бұрын
A first appearance, is a first appearance. It doesn't matter if it's only one panel. A couple of 1st appearances to consider: Yelena Belova's first appearance in Inhumans #5 is another book that is being overlooked in favor of Black Widow #1, particularly the 1 in 4 variant. Catalina Chavez actually appears in one panel in America Cavez: Made in America #1, and she appears in multiple panels/pages in issue #2. However, speculators were jumping on issue #3.
@MadPunky
3 жыл бұрын
@8:55 I agree. I'd like to see a viewer poll vote on X-Men Annual #14 vs Uncanny X-men #266 and see what the overall census is for Gambit's cameo vs 1st appearance. To me X-men Annual #14 is the most obvious to be titled as 1st Gambit first appearance. Uncanny X-men #266 should be retitled as first cover appearance.
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Ooooh I should totally do that
@UserNameClassifed
3 жыл бұрын
I think it's because chronologically, #266 came before X-Men Annual #14 judging by how it's written. Which is why even the CGC considers #266 his first full appearance and the former a cameo. It's all a mess either way, but at this point, I don't think it's going to change.
@rashadarizmendi871
3 жыл бұрын
The problem is not if it is cameo or first appearance, the problem is that people who already invested a lot of money in their first appearances will never accept that the number before the one they say cameo will never become first appearance. The most tangible sample is that of X-men 266, when it became known that X-MEN annual 4 is really the first Gambit release, immediately many influencers in the comics environment sent it to cameo, obviously they were not going to accept that this number that It is cheaper to gain ground to 266, of course, they were not going to lose all their investment. X-men annual is the clear example that it is the first appraisal, whoever likes it. Thats the reality. And I'm not going to get into the Hulk 180-181 or AMS 299 - 300 is wasting time. Greetings and thanks for exposing the reality on this issue. Greetings.
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Exactly - how do you tell someone that's known for years a book is a first appearance only to tell them it's not actually the first appearance?! it's tough. and hard to swallow! but nonetheless true
@MATTisRUTHLESS
3 жыл бұрын
Batman Beyond (Batman/Superman 22) vs Superman/Batman Annual 4 Should be its own video
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Seriously lol
@hassanbukhari843
3 жыл бұрын
Damn a entire run I thought you would have wanted to keep that cuz you really seem to like the knightfall series and shows of the bat is right after it
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
True but I want to make sure I take care of the comic community first and foremost!
@CallenLowe
3 жыл бұрын
For me, the debate of cameo vs first full doesnt really matter, I will just do my best to get both (or more) of the books. I can see both sides of the coin really, I just want all the books and let the market dictate which is the most valuable lol, excellent video and topic as always!!
@markleneker9923
3 жыл бұрын
I'd like to jettison the cameo/first appearance vs full appearance insanity. IMO it should be 1) Teaser -- and Hulk 180, and ASM 25 are PERFECT examples of that, and 2) Full Appearance. A teaser allows some flexibility. But the market will do what the market will do.
@johnmuse6626
3 жыл бұрын
The most frustrating thing to me is that it's never been consistent. I blame Overstreet to be honest. They were the first ones I saw doing that years ago. They were the ones who called Jimmy Olsen the 1st Darkseid but called Hulk 180 a cameo. It's silly, the first time a character appears is the first appearance. You'd never do that in the movies for example. Nick Fury joined the MCU in Iron Man 1, period.
@JernosComicsPopCulture
3 жыл бұрын
First off, I absolutely love what you do. So please don't take this as a slight in any way! (Like you said, merely differences of opinion to provoke critical thinking). I think this video in totality is extremely problematic simply because you decided to pin "cameo" against a "first appearance." The problem is that they are not inherently two separate things. By saying this, it's as if you are insinuating that a "true first appearance" means simply a "first FULL appearance," and that a cameo appearance in which we see the character for the first time isn't an appearance at all. Hulk 180 is still the FIRST appearance of Wolverine.... IN CAMEO. Hulk 181 is still the first FULL appearance of Wolverine. So from pinning cameo vs. first appearance, we're now trying to twist the definition of not only "cameo," but what makes a first appearance "true." Really, we need to throw the term "true" out the window, because it's not about "true," it's about cameo vs. full. A "TRUE" first appearance would be a cameo if indeed the character showed up in a cameo prior to a full. Why? Because they STILL appear. Therefore, it is the first, and it is an appearance, and it is IN CAMEO. That makes it a true first appearance. Stating Hulk 180 is Wolverine's first "true" appearance does not change the fact that HUlk 181 is STILL Wolverine's first FULL appearance. Ultimately, I agree with your end result labels for each book. You said it yourself Hulk 180 is truly Wolverine's first appearance, and 181 is his first FULL. Because 180 is indeed his first.... in cameo. Every other book that you deemed a "first appearance" and not cameo is half right, and every book you deemed a "cameo" and not a first appearance is half right. So again, any time you see a character for the first time, it's an appearance. From there, we have to add context ON TOP of "1st app," and that is where we add cameo or full... or for some people, brief, or sneak. I believe big heads in the community and industry really need to have a round table debate and put together a "label accords." lol. I love discussing this topic and I always appreciate your ability to clearly convey your thoughts in a way that is also extremely respectful. Keep up the great work!
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Hi there! Appreciate your take man! Like I said I DO like the distinction of a cameo vs first app because of course technically speaking any time a character first appears no matter how small its a first appearance. But I belive a cameo is a term that isn't traditionally defined nor do I take it so technically or literally, that's why I like the definition we've come up with as a community. That being said I see where you stand! Cheers man
@richardriedle8877
3 жыл бұрын
Hulk 181 cameo wolverine appreance
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
now we're calling 181 the cameo? hahaha that might turn some heads!
@thecommondude
3 жыл бұрын
I just recently got into comic books and honestly I have never really understood why there is a distinction between first appearance and first full appearance. This vid really cleared it up for me! I do however consider any sort of a reveal of the character (even if it's a shadow) as a cameo :) congrats on 8000 subs btw! And keep up the good work!
@zingpulse4138
3 жыл бұрын
Hulk 180 is a first appearance but the consensus says it's 181. The consensus is wrong in this case and Punchlines case as well.
@JuicifugeSon
3 жыл бұрын
Could you do like a comic Collection Video, like a amazing Spider-Man comic collection or a Hulk or Captain America collection
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
I did a Batman comic collection vid! I'll have to do a Green Lantern and Spidey one soon
@JuicifugeSon
3 жыл бұрын
@@MintHunterComics Cool! Thanks for reading my comment and paying attention to ur fans.
@RetailSorcerer
2 жыл бұрын
As a new collector I like first appearance vs first full appearance
@naureennaqvi8442
3 жыл бұрын
And has your 125 green lantern books come back from cgc yet
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
It hasn't even been picked up by CGC yet! lololol
@naureennaqvi8442
3 жыл бұрын
@@MintHunterComics returns times r crazy n now that Jay z some how bought the place who knows what will happen 😂
@GTR_LOVER_08
3 жыл бұрын
James is always right…………………………
@FebaTalonsRedDragons
3 жыл бұрын
You are the Andy Rooney of comic book. Do you know who is Andy Rooney : ))
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Believe it or not I do actually know who that is! and thank you!
@new2vero2
3 жыл бұрын
As a GenXer who lived thru it… we all acted as if Spider-Man 299 was 1st Venom and 360 as 1st carnage.. I still have both . Even mcfarlane says that is 1sr venom.. I don’t get modern comic people .. listen to your elders .. lol
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Hahahaha the wisdom existed before! hopefully these youngins can remember it yet again lol
@AlexSzostak13
3 жыл бұрын
From Go Collect.... Amazing Spider-Man #298 in a 9.8: $700 Amazing Spider-Man #299 in a 9.8: $975 Amazing Spider-Man #300 in a 9.8: $10,000 “First Full Appearance” is what drives the market. Great video. Keep on Hunting!!!
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
First FULL app is usually the favorite anyway but it's still interesting to note that the 1st app was NOT the big famous issue! lol
@Misosgameroom
3 жыл бұрын
I feel like first appearance should include an identifiable Face shot as well.
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Face or partial face shot is pretty important for me
@josephsokolowski271
3 жыл бұрын
Well done video with some great examples my friend. I will throw one more monkey wrench out there for one big book. If you have ever read Marvel’s Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe #12 from December of 1983 then you should know that Marvel Comics officially listed Wolverine 1st appearance as Incredible Hulk #180. That’s right from the horse’s mouth and just starts a whole new conversation lol.
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
This is true! it was ONCE considered the 1st appearance and got lost a bit there. But now everything is coming full circle and folks are remembering it saying it IS once again the first app!
@michaelemond7315
3 жыл бұрын
It is weird how the market dictates a lot of these things. And sometimes you see the market changing its mind. I wonder if they ever would for Venom and make 299 the more desired comic book.
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Probably not - but the reality is - that's the first app!
@comicbookninja5268
3 жыл бұрын
The last page of 299 is classic though. I think 299 is way undervalued compared to 300.
@50TBRD
3 жыл бұрын
I think a lot of the cameo v full appearance debate is just about giving comic books significance when there wouldn’t otherwise be significance to them. First cameo, first appearance, first cover, first solo story, first fight between blank and blank, first silver age appearance (no one ever says first bronze or copper age appearance).
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
I say first bronze and copper appearance! lolol
@robertt9342
3 жыл бұрын
Isn’t Man of Steel 17 already considered the first cameo? The elevated price seems to indicate value to the otherwise generic book must be attributed to Doomsday.
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Ahhh but now we've concluded it's a first appearance!
@PaleRiderK
3 жыл бұрын
I have a copy of X-Men Annual 14 and get told all the time it's not Gambit's first appearance. I've always considered it one over 266, due to the very reasons you brought up.
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Don't let em tell ya otherwise!
@larrylar1189
3 жыл бұрын
FINALLY! Someone calls it right. Some of these are debatable but X-men 266 is definitely not a 1st appearance at all, its just a 1st cover.
@MintHunterComics
3 жыл бұрын
Agreed, there's so leeway with some of these but not with Gambit at all lol
@stevenschaller1672
3 жыл бұрын
To me a true cameo is no more than a shapely,shadow/outline of said figure.with no actual details.A first appearance is any actual panel containing said figure with identifiable features/colors/costume etc.
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