Re-looks are sooo important. We see so many hyped "save the world" technology announcements that it gets very easy to start ignoring them. Kind of like this food is good, this food is now bad. Don't abandon this this approach! Love it.
@andynz7
Жыл бұрын
Yes, please make more of these!
@simonmasters3295
Жыл бұрын
Absolutely support revisiting stuff
@matthewbrightman3398
8 ай бұрын
Fully agree!
@benjaminnead8557
Жыл бұрын
I remember your first Form Energy overview video from 2022, David, and I was one of those who asked for an update at some point. And here it is today. Bravo. Worthy of upgrading from being one of your basic KZitem subscribers to an actual Patreon supporter, which I just did. Keep up the good work. Speaking of this big iron air battery, I think there are also installations occurring or underway in Colorado and Georgia.
@JustHaveaThink
Жыл бұрын
Bless you Benjamin. I appreciate your support. See you over at Patreon :-)
@nidodson
Жыл бұрын
I need more of this type of coverage in my life
@mnsawmill2904
Жыл бұрын
This was recently approved to be installed near my home in Minnesota, I'm an Xcel energy retiree that is glad to see the progress and advances in the technology.
@brianjonker510
Жыл бұрын
Any further information as to size and costs? Id assume this is mostly proof of concept at grid scale.
@mnsawmill2904
Жыл бұрын
@@brianjonker510 What's reported is 10 Megawatt expandible in Becker MN at the Sherco plant, Not sure about Cherokee plant in Texas or costs of either.
@brianjonker510
Жыл бұрын
@@mnsawmill2904 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherburne_County_Generating_Station 10 MW seems like a trial run at commercial scale. Do you know if that 460MW solar farm scheduled for 2024 has started?
@brianjonker510
Жыл бұрын
@@mnsawmill2904 Here is my other comment... Does this use DC to charge and discharge like I am guessing? Would it be wise to have distributed storage at most of the largest PV farms? There would be a small benefit to charging directly off the DC from photovoltaic and of course reinforce the benefits from distributed generation.
@madshorn5826
Жыл бұрын
@@brianjonker510 Anything chemical uses DC, unless you want to instantly undo any change. The main benefit of AC is easy stepping up and down voltage. I have heard rumors of Germany considering a parallel DC grid. It makes sense in order to avoid transformer losses. And yes, solar panels on top of a storage would make so much sense :-)
@patrickmckowen2999
Жыл бұрын
I love relooks. I would have like to have seen how their cost would hold up to Flow batteries. Cheers
@JustHaveaThink
Жыл бұрын
I'm doing a flow battery review in a few weeks. I will try to remember to build this in :-)
@robertkirchner7981
Жыл бұрын
@@JustHaveaThink Maybe revisit Ambri as well sometime?
@fostroggalf
Жыл бұрын
It's great to see you following up on some of the technologies that you've covered in the past to see how they're progressing. All too often we see videos about the next "game changing new technology" that then fades into obscurity because something just isn't feasible to bring it into production. Videos like this are invaluable. Keep up the great work!
@melissamybubbles6139
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the update. This iron air battery seems pretty cool to me, a lay person who still has trouble telling the difference between volts and amps.
@cyrilio
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for creating these update videos. Keep them coming.
@JustHaveaThink
Жыл бұрын
Cheers. Will do
@gordonellis3420
Жыл бұрын
Grid scale electrical storage is the key to all future technologies.
@joemccarthy7120
Жыл бұрын
That still won't solve the huge inefficiencies of wind/solar.
@fotoguru222
Жыл бұрын
@@joemccarthy7120 🤓That's not really a problem. The only generation efficiency metric that really counts is LCOE (Lifetime Cost of Energy). Wind and solar win on those metrics since 2017 and they are pulling ahead on these looking forward over everything else into the future.
@mr3745
Жыл бұрын
@@joemccarthy7120 Why not? We already have enough wind and solar potential in the US to replace all of our current electric generation and accommodate all new electric cars and building heating with heat pumps, and these renewables are already the lowest-cost energy sources in the generation mix. The LCOE of solar or wind + utility storage is basically at parity with NG CC now.
@joemccarthy7120
Жыл бұрын
@@mr3745 No, they are not the cheapest sources in the system. You, like so many others, are misusing levelized costs. Everywhere wind/solar are added into the system, the costs go up a lot in spite of massive subsidies. What do you mean by potential? There are a lot of problems with that idea.
@mr3745
Жыл бұрын
@@joemccarthy7120 LCOE is misused for intermittent sources if you don't include storage, but I am saying even including utility scale storage the combined cost is now favorable. Enough potential means, there is enough useful land area for solar and enough untapped onshore and offshore wind to meet the entire electrical demand of the USA from renewables, especially after factoring existing hydro and existing and some limited new nuclear, geothermal.
@dazagrt
Жыл бұрын
Yay, follow up videos! I wish KZitemrs would do this more often instead of the usual “hit & run” type content.
@petewright4640
Жыл бұрын
Dave, a request: Would it be possible to compare the various new tech grid scale batteries with each other. Its always against Li-ion which we know isn't the future for grid scale storage except perhaps for very short duration use. So iron/air verses Na-ion, vanadium flow, liquid metal, liquid air etc etc. Just to get an idea of which are likely to come out on top. Probably s bit too complicated for a short video 🤔
@RobertSander
Жыл бұрын
I am very much encouraged by this report of energy storage moving forward. I love the idea of renewables instead of fossil fuels. Great report.
@daedalusdreamjournal5925
Жыл бұрын
A short but excellent video that brings some good news to boost. Do update us when the storage facility will be online. Also, I am curious about combining this type of energy storage with construction of ziggurat style buildings to maximize the amount of storage per unit of space to reduce land usage. Something to think about :)
@MichaelRada-INDUSTRY50
Жыл бұрын
Thank you David
@JustHaveaThink
Жыл бұрын
Cheers Michael
@brettyallop6018
10 ай бұрын
Great video, keen to see you re-visiting future technologies to see how they have progressed!
@arinasan247
Жыл бұрын
Great video. Been wondering where all those promising energy storage concepts went. Would be nice to see another video of the top 3 most "promising" energy storage technologies, from lets say 5 years ago, and where they are now. Also maybe the top 3 most successful storage systems, the ones that are currently prevailing in the open market.
@DanEVSolar7
Жыл бұрын
Thought that was a pack of blueberries at first when I saw the thumbnail. 😂 Love the videos, always really informative and easy to understand. 👍
@christophermahon1851
Жыл бұрын
This one looks promising. Thanks for sharing. It's nice to see that the company is more than slick p.r. unlike some others. It would be interesting to compare startups that are mostly hype to the ones that have, or may, pan out.
@floydbertagnolli944
Жыл бұрын
Great news!!! Thank you for an episode about SOLUTIONS. 👍😀
@digiryde
Жыл бұрын
I see the chance to stack your solar on top of the batteries as a strong plus for the cost effectiveness of the units (land costs is once, now twice). Another thought is stacking wind and solar on top. In another video, "Just Have a Think" covered a wind based power system that is for rooftops and is intended to be used in conjunction with solar. Combining these, your batteries are basement level (they are heavy), and your wind and solar are on top. Side transparent solar can then be used as windows for more energy collection. As well, use geothermal for building temperature control. The up front costs will be more, but the long term costs will be much less. I am amazed at how much progress has been made on electric (by any form) energy storage has progressed in the past 50 years as compared to all previous progress. Now, as society rediscovers old construction methods to regulate internal building temperatures more effectively and less expensively (as money or power), this aspect of our abuse of natural systems may actual start slowing down.
@geirmyrvagnes8718
Жыл бұрын
Building solar up high off the ground costs money as well, so it is a trade-off as always.
@digiryde
Жыл бұрын
@@geirmyrvagnes8718 "so it is a trade-off as always" Agreed. I am looking at it from the perspective of city dwelling. Rural may have more land they can play with.
@geirmyrvagnes8718
Жыл бұрын
@@digiryde Yes, this looks like it needs some land. In an urban setting, the higher energy density of Lithium-based batteries actually becomes an advantage again.
@iandavies4853
Жыл бұрын
Scale. One Megapack stores 3 MWh, a MW solar farm takes 2-3 ha of land (single pivot, spaced for efficiency). Solar PV on roofs helps shade house, but it’s fixed, inefficient use of PV.
@digiryde
Жыл бұрын
@@iandavies4853 "Solar PV on roofs helps shade house, but it’s fixed, inefficient use of PV." I am not referring to a house. Most large business buildings are flat roofs, which allow adjustable solar panel angles throughout the day.
@raysouth1952
Жыл бұрын
Great channel. I really enjoy the content, especially when there’s positive news like in this video. Thanks.
@extraincomesuz
Жыл бұрын
Yaay I am so happy this is moving forward!
@lavoieeric
Жыл бұрын
good idea to pick-up in the archive
@punditgi
Жыл бұрын
Excellent video! 😊
@mikeiver
Жыл бұрын
Nice basic information there. Thanks
@rh9280
Жыл бұрын
The costs of storage are just an additional overhead needed to deal with the problems of intermittent generation. The costs of the combined generation/storage system is what will actually affect the actual costs to energy users.
@RedBatteryHead
Жыл бұрын
Happy Days for battery development.
@youxkio
Жыл бұрын
European countries have eyes on this, Dave. Thank you for bringing this solution pairing with renewables.
@janschoice3855
Жыл бұрын
Another great video! It's great to hear that energy can now be stored more efficiently! I'm just not sure about the tsunami of waste that awaits us from wind turbines, electric cars and solar panels? Keep up the good work and Just have a think! Kind regards from the Netherlands ❤️
@Lewis_Standing
Жыл бұрын
He's covered blade recycling, solar panels and batteries from cars I think
@daniadejonghe4980
Жыл бұрын
Good for them!!!
@stevegreen2839
Жыл бұрын
The idea Iron Air cold ever compete on cost with storing energy in e-chemicals in simple big tanks for big scale multi day seasonal storage is amusing to chemical engineers
@witherbossbros1157
Жыл бұрын
Sometimes it takes a practical, successful demonstration on a large scale to convince others that a technology is worth the investment - someone else has proven it is safe to leap. Let's hope they are successful.
@wayneyeo186
Жыл бұрын
I woke up in the wee hours this morning thinking about this one. What if a home had one of these batteries, charged during the night, and released electricity during the day, oh say, as supplementary to the grid when ever I exceed median usage over some historical average, or a setpoint I control. This has the potential to even grid demand out over a 24 hour period. It allows me to buy electricity when it is cheap (at night), and use it during the day when it is expensive. My only requirement is that ROI be about 7 years or less. That makes this a personally good deal ! It would reduce peak demand requirements on the grid. It could be a win for everyone. The number of charge cycles this battery has, make it very good for a long term, frequent charge discharge situation.
@lynseylancaster7244
Жыл бұрын
Very interesting video as usual.
@Moskuito2222
Жыл бұрын
Cant wait for concrete block energy storage towers and sodium batteries news.
@philipoakley5498
Жыл бұрын
Some of the "Renewables beats Coal" is because they've retired the coal plants and substituted gas plants. It'll take a while to complete the transitions ;-) And there will be hiccups and knockbacks and folks being dragged screaming into new and wonderful future.. The other aspect is the 'reconfiguration of the grid' which is currently far too reliant of switching, sensing and protective measures that assume large rotating masses that provide ride through for faults and large surge currents. It'll take a while but there are lots of potential technologies to re-engineer that part of the grid, such as M3C (connection isolation), and Synaptec (remote monitoring).
@cinemaipswich4636
Жыл бұрын
People fail to realise that energy storage need not be near where it is produced. Storage can be scattered anywhere on the network, but near major trunk routes would be optimal, as land is cheap there.
@privateerburrows
Жыл бұрын
Actually, this technology should be packaged together with lithium battery storage. The company should try to make a deal with Tesla. The advantage of the Tesla Megapack is the precision and speed of its electronics, that can respond to voltage variations in sub-millisecond time, effectively cleaning up the AC wave-form from glitches and harmonics. The Tesla Megapack is the Masseratti of energy storage; but it could use something like Iron-Air storage for bulk storage. In my gut guesstimate, a good balance of the two could be say three megawatt-hours of iron-air to each megawatt-hour of Megapacks, side by side, effectively making the Megapacks the precision front-end to the bulk iron-air. This would immediately quadruple the amount of energy storage Tesla could supply to the world, and accelerate renewables adoption by a factor of 4, and/or reduce the lithium demand pressure.
@jamesh1017
Жыл бұрын
Reg FormEnergy locating to Minnesota, at the site of a coal fire energy generation plant, multiple good reasons to locate at this site were provided, but might the readily available high power transmission line have been a consideration. Almost a plug n play situation, just scaled up some.....
@phillbrewer4880
Жыл бұрын
Great, I like it when people go back to find out how things have been going for new (or re-visited) technology. I would like to know the comparisons of iron/air batteries to flow batteries, such as vanadium redox or zinc bromide types of batteries. Can you add the all in capital costs of these to the table, as these flow batteries should be good for long duration discharge.
@scubabrister
Жыл бұрын
I love the renderings of these large-scale storage buildings... but why oh why do we NEVER see the solar panels on TOP of the structure? They are always on land off to the side. Perhaps the logo is more important.
@stanislavjaracz
Жыл бұрын
I am a chemist with an advanced degree and recently looked into electrical potentials of Fe/Fe2+/Fe3+ to see whether electrolytic reduction of iron from its ore is possible to solve the enormous CO2 footprint of steel producers. The science told me that any protic solvent will always result in H2 production instead of Fe. I then looked into liquified gases. No dice. If I found something, it would suggest a massive opportunity for iron makers. I didn't think of a battery. And here someone is commercializing Fe-air battery? Am I missing something?
@linmal2242
Жыл бұрын
Redflow zinc bromine flow batteries to capture wind and solar power, already microgrid scale !
@stevesmith-sb2df
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video. I wonder what the ROI is for renewable + battery compared to gas power plants. It’s like trying to hit a moving target.
@JohnClulow
Жыл бұрын
I've read efficiency of the Fe/O technology is 50% versus 99% for Li-Ion, 90% for Pb/Acid and 88% for Ni based. So I would think this may mean significant additional cost on the input/generation infrastructure for this Fe/O technology, not to mention the additional costs on the storage side?
@AnimilesYT
Жыл бұрын
A square peg in a round hole? It's time to update this phrase to fit with the meme. After all, the round peg goes into the square hole xD
@cad4246
Жыл бұрын
I'd love to hear thoughts on how a wholesale market with overbuilt renewables and mass storage would work. With the current system the hydro storage folks are paid to consume and to discharge. I guess low efficiency and high maintenance costs means they would go out of business without this "double dipping". And their upfront costs must be enormous. Are we still going to build wind and solar if 10% if the energy isn't paid for on average? What % overbuild do we need to hit? At what % does it become economically unviable to keep building? Does the wholesale market need to change to pay the producer more when energy is being stored, not just used? Do the producers and "storers" have to become one financial entity for the finances to stack up? How do we stop "storers" making production less profitable, thus removing the incentive to overbuild production? Is there a risk we reach the top of the s curve before we reach the necessary overbuild as the financial incentives shrink?
@richardereed9205
8 ай бұрын
You are wrong about the cost of battery storage. Tesla's first plant in Australia saved about $60 million the first year and had an ROI of under two years. That is an outcome any investor would love.
@xlgoldfish
Жыл бұрын
LFP is close to 4000, the 2000 is for lithium ion batteries.
@ericjohnson6665
Жыл бұрын
Have you ever done any pieces on zero point energy? The patents are all classified, to protect the fossil fuel industry.
@4_Science
Жыл бұрын
I wonder if anything bad would happen to a technician standing in the center of the warehouse when all the batteries start consuming oxygen out of the air at once...
@Marko-qy5eg
Жыл бұрын
PowerBarn is a company that’s combining solar and ranching. Why? Massive synergies. Zero carbon emissions beef and 24/7 power. Solar delivers the power needed during the day but the cows produce methane which is a powerful greenhouse gas but also a fuel which is burned at night for power generation. The exhaust gasses are then filtered and the co2 fertilizes the cow feed fields under the solar panels in a process called agrivoltaics. A high co2 concentration isn’t a problem for an alfalfa field it’s a benefit. The field produces oxygen too which means it’s a closed system. This turns nimby around because suddenly people won’t smell cattle ranches for miles. People can eat beef again and use the renewable energy of cow farts to charg electric cars. No expensive batteries needed.
@artlewellan2294
Жыл бұрын
Jimmy Carter's (successful stimulus) Home Weatherization Tax Credit program reduced household energy consumption enough to cancel a Washington State plan to build 4 nuclear (pronounced new-klee-ur) power plants and decommission the aging Trojan plant in Oregon. Average homes today are cleaner, more comfortable, healthier, safer and more sturdily built to last as well as more energy efficient. The next big tech step I see is adapting EVs (small battery BEV & PHEV) to rooftop solar and neighborhood mini-grids which do not require long-distance transmission lines nor complex regional utility grids which remain vulnerable to power outage. Also, the Tesla road lizard sedan is so over-rated you wouldn't believe it; a cliche on wheels, a rolling anachronism, a latent embarrassment.
@thewatersavior
Жыл бұрын
When are we going to see them sit the solar farm on top of the battery farm. This land usage (albeit on disturbed lands) is to be watched
@johnbirk843
Жыл бұрын
There are national security issues centrally generated electricity. In the 1960s I was living in Canada, a transformer in a grid distribution site in Buffalo failed. and most of easteri Canada and the eastern US went dark. And there were only two these transformers available at the time and would take many months to manufacture more. A security analysis pointed out that there is just a dozen spots around the US with this type of transformer, sabotaged it would take months if not years to get the US electrical grid back up again now consider millions of businesses and homes with solar and energy storage,as well as electric vehicles, damn near impossible to shut it all down and this would be serious National security issue. Unfortunately I rarely ever hear this brought up as the big advantage of distributed power generation and use. Scientia Habet Non Domus, (Knowledge Has No Home) antiguajohn😢
@mrwonderfullgj
Жыл бұрын
Whatever happened to the Vanadium Redox Flow technology that we had years ago? I think it was sold to China and never heard from again. What a pity.😮
@MR-backup
Жыл бұрын
The idea to reduce the energy consumption by every day people (despite the fact that making energy available to everyone in amounts equal to what they could afford is what opened the gates for everyday people to make advancements in technology, information, and human progress on this planet AND get us to where we are today), is the in lock step with opening up & keeping in place a planetary social class system where some people are more "qualified' to use energy than others, i.e. an elitist dystopian master & sl/\\/e humanity. Having said that, I would have not known about this new battery without this video.
@Orionrobots
Жыл бұрын
This might have been said, but with that large storage factory roof, and then the solar farm next to it, why wouldn't they put the solar farm onto the roof of that warehouse? Or is that going to be too expensive/complicated?
@dkdisme
Жыл бұрын
Electricity from iron, air and water. Why wasn't this tech developed long ago? Of course, it has to do with the relative costs of the available materials and means in the marketplace at any given point in time. And how they change relative to each other. Is it too early to do a history of the development of alternative energies? It seems like a fascinating story to be told how we went from not caring about how dirty things were or how much we used. through all the efficiencies. social pressures, corporate and government influences and available technologies. To arrive at where we are today and to project where we will be going tomorrow. There is a book to be written here.
@jamesgrover2005
Жыл бұрын
It's storage, a battery.
@dkdisme
Жыл бұрын
@@jamesgrover2005 And we are just getting around to it now?
@jamesgrover2005
Жыл бұрын
@@dkdisme it'll be about cost & profit margins no doubt, and probably hegemony.
@SanePerson1
Жыл бұрын
It's been clear all along that since energy density and low mass are low priorities for energy storage, so Li ion batteries for storage aren't at all optimal except for temporary recycling of, say, EV batteries that have only partially degraded. Let's hope that Form Energy pans out!
@geirmyrvagnes8718
Жыл бұрын
Energy density may not be that important, but it is not a disadvantage, just a smaller advantage. So you can not go directly from that to "not at all optimal". In fact, they work quite well. But if we can come up with something better/cheaper I am all for it.
@steveyountz9184
Жыл бұрын
Isn't there a Scandinavian company that wants to build something like group of elevator shafts, and when there is excess energy, lift heavy weights up-shaft, and then turn the motors into generators and lower the weights to feed the grid? Pretty sure I saw something but can't seem to find it now. Any thoughts?
@simongross3122
Жыл бұрын
Why don't we do this in Australia? We have tons of iron
@bugabateinc971
Жыл бұрын
Seems like a good idea. Using iron and oxygen to pass electrons, just like the human body.
@maxvandenberk7506
Жыл бұрын
I do wonder if large scale iron air batteries have negative impacts on ambient oxygen levels, but as always this is preferable to burning stuff so exciting news
@aliasgharkhoyee9501
Жыл бұрын
My takeaway was that the overall oxygen usage over time will be zero or insignificant, as the battery uses and releases the same oxygen in a cycle.
@DiThi
Жыл бұрын
I don't see why it would, oxygen is not consumed or transformed into something else at the end of a discharge/charge cycle.
@maxvandenberk7506
Жыл бұрын
@@DiThi yea I agree partially. On a cycle basis it's going to be zero, but as it stores oxygen from the air as rust to generate power it will cause a dip in oxygen and a spike in oxygen during the other part of the cycle. How much oxygen do we need for 10Wh for instance?
@DiThi
Жыл бұрын
@@maxvandenberk7506 unless you're an enclosed space with those batteries, I don't think that's cause for concern: it's like worrying about sea water levels due to pumped hydro storage.
@DonLovell-xl3sk
Жыл бұрын
The statement that American wind and solar generated produced more energy than coal for a 5 month period is a red herring. Coal use has been diminishing due to nat gas. And then there is the question "What is to cost for coal vs wind and solar.
@russho4099
Жыл бұрын
Just an idea Just have a think What goes down the sink.
@MrGottaQuestion
Жыл бұрын
A four day discharge seems like a major deal breaker. It looks like you are trying to solve the ills of renewables (intermittency or non-dispachability) with something that's barely dispatchable. And you just glossed over this! How long does it take to recharge?
@EleanorPeterson
Жыл бұрын
I know I keep banging the same old drum on this fine channel (I can play all day, an' I won't go 'way...😁), but I ask again, "Cheap for whom?" Cheap energy is worthless (ho ho) if potential customers are to be charged a cripplingly high standing charge to access it. As usual, supposedly cheap energy proves to be impractically expensive, and the people in the most desperate need of it can't afford to use it.😞 So... 30% yay, but 70% boo until proven otherwise.
@Burnrate
Жыл бұрын
I hate when you can't get the details about a project. For one of those batteries what is the capacity and the sustainable output. Just the basic specs would be so nice
@pa6552
Жыл бұрын
I realize my question is not related to the iron/air battery, but perhaps it is at least in the same general theme of renewables. Wind generation takes energy from the wind. Are there studies done that can confirm that this does not have a negative effect on global weather patterns?
@pa6552
Жыл бұрын
Correct, but those are now well known and well studied side effects - I cannot find any definitive studies that show that removing the energy from wind will not effect down-stream weather. in simpler terms, how big is the proverbial butterfly effect?@@Flumstead
@Froggability
Жыл бұрын
And lower flammability risk than Lipo?
@jhwheuer
Жыл бұрын
Never understood why the pylons wind turbines are housed upon are not actually full of batteries…
@laker6943
Жыл бұрын
Well yes, it is unfortunately true, that if you follow enough You Tube channels about green energy, then you know that almost every single day there is a breakthrough invention that will make an enormous difference in our lives. So far, they are all pipe dreams. But a lot of fun to fantasize about! It’s called “science fiction “. 😀😀😀
@stepup898
Жыл бұрын
If it is scaled up could I fit my fiat in one and convert all the rust back to iron?
@petestransit
Жыл бұрын
where do you get the electricity to recharge the battery for 4 days? another rusty battery?
@hg60justice
Жыл бұрын
are they commercially available at all yet? any installations yet that aren't test ones?
@MrAdopado
Жыл бұрын
watch the video!
@inigoromon1937
Жыл бұрын
If this were to become true, it would help us get rid of fossil fuels muc easily and sooner.
@georgesos
Жыл бұрын
Cant they stack these iron air batteries or built a multistory building to house them? Why do they need so much space?
@NIGGAdatCooks
Жыл бұрын
Only 1 question why is it spread out like that on a whole land? why not build a Multi storey Building for it ? (going by the graphics)
@BillHartCooks.
Жыл бұрын
Iron Air batteries would be really cool if the were scaled down for off grid storage at the small compound scale. 3 to 5 house holds. Or for that matter for decentralized storage. Lets say one lot in a residential neighborhood for every 20 regular lots. If you have solar, wind etc on your house. You charge your local grid before you send the extra back to the big grid. De-centralization should make the overall grid much more resilient.
@adamkohalmi7180
Жыл бұрын
Just posted a similar comment before seeing yours. I am amazed that we are even still talking about distributed power, when we should be talking distributed generation and storage. And this technology already looks to be unitised enough for this to take place.
@timogul
Жыл бұрын
I'm not _sure_ that would work. My concern is that these systems are slow to start up and slow to discharge, so I'm thinking that in a small neighborhood, energy needs would rise and fall quickly as one house's air conditioner came on and another house's toaster turned off, and I don't think that this sort of device could be that agile. On the other hand, if you have hundreds of homes being served, and they all _generally_ need a certain amount of power at a given time, then a large facility of these can rise up to _mostly_ cover that, with Lithium batteries or capacitors or other things handling the small "blips" along the edges of that massive wave. Now, maybe if each home _also_ had their own Li-ion battery to handle the spikes, that could work, there are options.
@kingmasterlord
Жыл бұрын
nah man redundancy if it can support 3 to 5 homes you have it in each home
@kingmasterlord
Жыл бұрын
you shouldn't be surprised, The primitives want you dependent on their system so of course they're going to go for centralized everything, they're too simple to control anything else.
@bernhardschmalhofer855
Жыл бұрын
I'm sceptical of all that wishes for tiny scale. As electric energy is easily moved around, I think it makes more sense to have large installations.
@bradallen1443
Жыл бұрын
I really like the fact that you aren’t just putting out videos about the next great thing and then forgetting about them when they don’t materialize like all the recent LK-99 hype on KZitem
@lukeskywalker7457
Жыл бұрын
Does this chemistry have a chance of releasing Hydrogen?
@incognitotorpedo42
Жыл бұрын
@@lukeskywalker7457 There would be no hydrogen evolved from the main reaction between oxygen and iron. Since it's run in an aqueous electrolyte, the evolution of hydrogen is a conceivable side reaction, which would represent an inefficient loss of energy. It should be possible to suppress such a side reaction through appropriate selection of pH, temperature, and presence of other compounds such that any hydrogen produced would be in negligible quantities.
@dirkvornholt2507
Жыл бұрын
@lukeskywalker7457 Probably, like an overcharged NiMH battery. Thus, without additional expensive catalysts the efficiency is probably low.
@JustHaveaThink
Жыл бұрын
@bradallen1443. Thanks Brad. I appreciate your feedback :-)
@benjaminnead8557
Жыл бұрын
@@lukeskywalker7457 Since learning about iron air battery tech a couple years ago (its actually been around since the 1970s in one form or another,) I came a cross a few DIY videos here on KZitem where it's shown how to build a tabletop version of one, just for fun. If it's out of calibration or otherwise not optimized, there's a chance that an iron air battery will produce hydrogen peroxide as an unwelcome byproduct. Can't remember if it's this particular video, but I'm almost sure it was one on this fellow's channel . . . kzitem.info/news/bejne/22ysyZaOhX17hWU
@sagecoach
Жыл бұрын
Proud of my state for doing this, and we have iron ore mining. Thanks for the reporting follow-through.
@jamesgrover2005
Жыл бұрын
I'd like to see this do well 🤞
@MrNagafen
Жыл бұрын
Wonderfull idea to take another look at tech that has passed the hype-stage.
@cosmicseekin
Жыл бұрын
Great Dave. You are addressing what we should know about winners and losers. Just one key matter did not come out in this Iron-Air battery. It would be even greater information if you ranked IIron-Air against present known Battery Technologies beyond LiFeP04 such as Molten Salt, Pumped Hydro, Sand, Gravity, Compressed Air Batteries .....
@JustHaveaThink
Жыл бұрын
That may be something to consider for a future video
@jasper-laurensvandaele4953
Жыл бұрын
+1 that would be awesome
@DavidCoxDallas
Жыл бұрын
would be great to see more comparisons among the types of storage - energy dome & any others, too.
@istvantoppler5999
Жыл бұрын
Thank you, long overdue. The honesty and facts are totally overdue and absolutely refreshing. Thankyou
@JustHaveaThink
Жыл бұрын
You're very welcome
@TheLosamatic
Жыл бұрын
If only this kind of thing was subsidized for the benefit of the future instead of coming out so slow the petroleum industry gets another 25 years of destroying the atmosphere!
@mintakan003
Жыл бұрын
2024-2025 from start to finish. That is fast (relatively speaking)! (I'm thinking what it takes to build a nuclear power plant, or permit long distance transmission lines.)
@MrAdopado
Жыл бұрын
Indeed! It would take forever in the UK. Hopefully quicker in the USA and in this case it looks like the cabling infrastructure should be there already due to it being built on an old coal power station site.
@jamesgrover2005
Жыл бұрын
Yes, we should roll out everything we've got and at scale asap. .. you know.. like it's a crisis or something
@wiwipeepee
Жыл бұрын
In the Netherlands we (Technical University of Eindhoven / Metalot / Rift) are also working on using iron as an energy carrier. One difference is that we combust iron powder in a reactor, creating heat and iron oxides. These oxides are then converted back into iron using hydrogen that is generated from renewable energy sources. Might be interesting for you to also take a look at this implementation.
@markapplejohn4376
Жыл бұрын
I would really like to see a video on this!!
@incognitotorpedo42
Жыл бұрын
This doesn't sound very efficient, since it produces low quality heat energy but requires high quality electrical energy to regenerate the iron.
@iandavies4853
Жыл бұрын
Interesting. Would that use same sponge iron as produced by green technologies, like Twiggy Forrest / Sanjeev Gupta are proposing? That’d introduce tremendous production scale, cost efficiency, storage. Of course, simply turning off iron production saves twice as much electricity (given 50% cycle efficiency). Industrial demand curtailment.
@larslrs7234
Жыл бұрын
Well that's the difference between the US and good ol Europe. They are not working on that topic. They are actually building commercially. Also, hydrogen created from renewable energy sources is a myth. Will never make sense economically. Whenever the huge inefficiencies of creating and storing hydrogen become acceptable, you can go one step further and create synthetic fuel that is easy to stored longtime.
@thankyouforyourcompliance7386
Жыл бұрын
Is this reaction more effective in its use of precious green hydrogen than an FCEL?
@alberthartl8885
Жыл бұрын
In cold climates like Minnesota, flow batteries need to be kept warm in the winter. Red flow technology takes up half the space of Form's hence a much smaller building. Red flow is also available off the shelf right now. Also I want to second a return to Highview cryogenic air battery. They seem to have given up on a US project but started some in Spain.
@JustHaveaThink
Жыл бұрын
Both those will get their own review video
@mavericmorph5358
Жыл бұрын
Masses of storage batteries never made any sense, but batteries made with cheap, and readily available materials makes perfect sense.
@DunnickFayuro
Жыл бұрын
They *made* sense economically as they're mainly replacing coal peaker plants and are a *lot* cheaper than those. And batteries are readily available in somewhat large quantities, contrary to the other, more marginal alternative. But I'm happy this is changing though. If anything, more Form Energy and al. options will reduce the cost of batteries by reducing demand. It's gonna be an interesting market to watch.
@dkdisme
Жыл бұрын
@@DunnickFayuro I wonder when that balance tipped.
@kayakMike1000
Жыл бұрын
Ambri batteries probably looked at this and decided against this chemistry, went with a different chemistry that's probably way better. They have nearly infinite cycle time;
@occamraiser
Жыл бұрын
yes, but not if they soak up and release power on a 200hour cycle time.
@linmal2242
Жыл бұрын
So, you are talking about Redflow readily available batteries now. Up and running !
@stuart940
Жыл бұрын
glad to hear your gonna give us updates on tech. so many things are talked about then never heard of again. keep up the good work
@JoeyBlogs007
Жыл бұрын
6:20 That's Insane. Perfect for grid storage.
@autohmae
Жыл бұрын
yes, but the price is still a projection at 7:11
@Tsnafu
Жыл бұрын
While this is good news from a global perspective, what I want is a palletised version of this for home use, stick it in a shed and use 2am cheap charging electricity all day.
@Gusski84
Жыл бұрын
Would be interested to know where things are with the amazingly simplistic - yet brilliant - Highview Power liquid air battery. Ambri liquid metal battery is another; developer Prof Shadoway promised his team had the battery equivalent of the holy grail in storage terms so curious to know where this project has gone.
@JustHaveaThink
Жыл бұрын
They will both be getting their own review videos this year.
@howarthgreenoak4257
Жыл бұрын
Hi, love that you're going through the archive and seeing how they're getting on! I did have a question; 06:00 - you say that "they're just far to heavy", but then the next slide at 06:13 states that the (theoretical) energy density is much higher that LiFePO4. Surely batter density is the main factor in overall batter weight (although cooling and other ancillary support systems will affect this too)?
@NdxtremePro
Жыл бұрын
This looks like a much better bet for home use and much better for apartment buildings and skyscrapers, especially those built in the future. It also looks like a better tech for farm use and wilderness application. I can't imagine these are as flammable as any of the lithium based batteries, and commercializing to the smaller installations should help reduce the costs for all.
@marcusnichols5595
Жыл бұрын
Using former power station sites for new build renewables locations likely means a much easier grid connection.
@zapfanzapfan
Жыл бұрын
Probably less NIMBYism too from the neighbors so it doesn't take years of legal wrangling to build.
@MooseOnEarth
Жыл бұрын
But it also means: power plant operators (a few large companies) stay in *control* of energy supply and therefore prices.
@marcusnichols5595
Жыл бұрын
@@MooseOnEarth Well, that wasn't where I was going. A decommissioned fossil fuel power plant is sold on for scrapping and any residual land value (minus site pollution remediation costs). I presume the grid tie in is forfeit. Buyers presumably used to price the site for its land value for future redevelopment. Little value was ever assigned to a defunct grid tie in. Many new build renewable sites can be erected/deployed in ~2 years, but have to wait ~10 years for a grid connection. My point was that retired ff power plants legacy grid connection might be worth more than the site land value. Renewables operators, or grid storage providers might consider setting up or laying transmission lines to former ff sites, or just buying the grid tie in that already exists.
@marcusnichols5595
Жыл бұрын
@@zapfanzapfan I agree, but think it may be more complicated than simply NIMBYism. Grids are fiendishly complicated. Historically, power stations took decades to build and bring online, so grids had a time window and a process to accommodate each new supplier. If new build renewables or deep grid storage can be deployed and onstream in
@MooseOnEarth
Жыл бұрын
@@marcusnichols5595 I was aware of this idea, and I am pretty confident, a high MW grid connection had always been appreciated financially, in contrast to what you think. Some projects even take it a bit further. They say that there is not only value in the grid connection itself (HV lines), but they keep the turbine and turbine shaft. This is a large rotating mass (rotating at net frequency speed such as 50 Hz or 60 Hz) that stores a certain amount of rotational energy by itself, and has a certain inertia as well as all the frequency transformation and control/stabilization aspects built-in to feed the grid. However they drive this rotating mass from renewable energy. Thus, they can make use of even more parts of the former coal-fired power plant. My point is to put risks and benefits into perspective: if you take over "too much" of the power plants, then you take over the need for power distribution as well. You may be faster to connect your renewable energy source, but it will be connected essentially at places, where there was coal. This is not necessarily, where consumers are, which are in cities, or electric power is needed near heavy industry. In addition, the location of the former coal-fired power plant can be a place with low renewable energy sources (like wind energy, hydro energy, biomass energy, sunlight). So, even if there is a good grid connection, it may still not be appropriate for several forms of renewable energy facilities. In essence good grid connection is only one property of a particular site. Your renewable ennergy sources should be nearby and strong. And your consumers should be nearby in order to not put billions and billions of dollars/euros in power distribution networks. Decentralizing power supply as well as decentralized storage and peak shaving have their own properties: risks and chances.
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