In before copyright strike due to picture of ROM "showing the bits"
@PINKBOY1006
4 жыл бұрын
Were they the "Naughty bits"?
@TheBypasser
4 жыл бұрын
Also a lot of images we can use to reverse-engineer and replicate those ICs! Great, time to start routing... not :P
@vladomaimun
4 жыл бұрын
I just tried this and it works. I can't believe how easy it is! I have tried decapping before using nitric acid and couldn't get it to work. Thank you very much!
@geovani60624
4 жыл бұрын
i've actually done it with those blob chips on cheap boards, these ones are a lot more softer than these packages, they almost turn into a paste.
@Muonium1
4 жыл бұрын
This is an unbelievable revelation. The painstaking hours of hot acid digestion, sanding, etc. I've seen people go through...
@7wingsaseagles89
4 жыл бұрын
When I was a kid my parents owned a telecommunications business. When equipment would become obsolete or could not be repaired my dad would sometimes give me the circuit boards. My mom would have killed me if I did this in the kitchen so I would go outside and use a heat gun to remove the epoxy package off the board. My personal experience is with the right technique with a propane torch you can remove a manufacturers die from the epoxy package. I successfully removed some of Intel's dies as well as Motorola, national semiconductor, Texas instruments, NEC, Hitachi, and many others. I also collected an extensive number of eprom I like the fact they had a window and you could see the die without removing the package. I like watching these videos they bring back a lot of memories.
@adberco
4 жыл бұрын
Propane torch was my initial way but it damages the die significantly and produce very nasty fumes.
@ikocheratcr
4 жыл бұрын
Long time ago I tried "decapping" by just hammering the chips, and see if I was able to get the die within, with very little success. For the little pieces I was able to get, I look under my microscope and wondered. This is more than genius, I can decap again!!!
@TheWiseTorsk
4 жыл бұрын
I had to try it out even before the video was over. Went 2 out of three on some old Realtek audio chips. Awesome!
@adberco
4 жыл бұрын
When it fails, epoxy does not separate from the die surface... but at least you've removed the bulk of the package which will make chemical decaping a lot easier.
@andyaelenei7246
Жыл бұрын
same here ! :D
@waynestock300
4 жыл бұрын
Everyone's house is going to smell like hot epoxy now.
@youtubasoarus
4 жыл бұрын
3....2....1
@Xoferif
4 жыл бұрын
Wife: "Why does it smell of burnt plastic in here?", "Why are there dribbles of metal on my nice hob?" =)
@bitcoredotorg
4 жыл бұрын
I would have LOVED to see the main processor done in this way
@randomelectronicsanddispla1765
4 жыл бұрын
Awesome. I'm already taking photos of mysterious chips for which I can't find datasheets. I never thought just heat would be enough. I didn't have a heat gun so I put mine in a fan forced oven set on 260°C. It works a charm, putting them back in the oven a couple of times when they cool down too much.
@rkan2
4 жыл бұрын
It makes sense though... it is basically glass/sand packaged in organic stuff :D
@graemedavidson499
4 жыл бұрын
Little did the inventor of the vacuum tube know that the glass enclosure itself would be the basis of the transistor that later replaced it!
@colejohnson4941
4 жыл бұрын
Great video! I watched/listened to it while... ...annotating a completely different microchip!
@RaoulB.
4 жыл бұрын
As many have said in the last video, it would be amazing if Antoine uploaded the pictures of the chips on the internet !
@PilkScientist
4 жыл бұрын
I think they may fall under copyright, is the problem.
@RaoulB.
4 жыл бұрын
@@PilkScientist Really? Didn't even know that was a thing
@PilkScientist
4 жыл бұрын
@@RaoulB. some people were mentioning it, they contain ROM data which could be back-engineered from photos. He may also just not have thought about it, though, dunno
@paulpillau5858
4 жыл бұрын
Press X to pay respect to the PlayStation that donated its brains to this amazing demonstration!
@biologicalhazard552
3 күн бұрын
I would love to spend one day at work with Antoine and learn more recipes!
@noelj62
4 жыл бұрын
Interesting de-capping method. Good remark on the entrapped moisture in the chips. Didn't know that.
@Starchface
4 жыл бұрын
Another brilliant video. You never go wrong Marc. I can't thank you enough for all your hard work.
@gooseknack
4 жыл бұрын
That is fascinating! Its like looking in on a tiny, hidden world. Which if course, it is! I've seen close ups of ic internals in the past(many years ago, in electronics magazines, of the 90's).. they were nothing like the clarity here!
@DonnyHooterHoot
4 жыл бұрын
Thank you! I have been searching for a good way to do this for YEARS!
@graemedavidson499
4 жыл бұрын
Amazing! The final zoom in views were reminiscent of Google Earth zooming into a city!
@WolfgangMahringer
4 жыл бұрын
Well that's how the "Matrix" looks like if you look closely :-)
@digiowl9599
4 жыл бұрын
Or the infinite zoom of the Mandelbrot set as new "cores" emerge as one zoom in and in and in.
@rerewewrwrwrw
2 жыл бұрын
Koyaanisqatsi used dies like this for that effect.
@lloydtshare
4 жыл бұрын
That's so simple i had no idea, i thought everyone was using hot acid, very cool thank guys 👍
@mnemonic6502
2 жыл бұрын
always amazes me the amount of engineering in these little packages that makes all the cool stuff work, yet are totally anonymous and ignored in the beauty of the design, just disposable items which would otherwise never been seen, who depts of engineers who would have worked on their designs, for some one of those tiny chips they worked on was the epoch of their careers.
@PaulFisher
4 жыл бұрын
This is a cool process and the results are spectacular!
@inyo56
4 жыл бұрын
Thank you, its been maddening to find the solution to this problem!
@scowell
4 жыл бұрын
Normally fuming nitric acid is used... requires a fume hood, protective gear, safety squints etc. How you convert OTP chips to MTP!
@talesmaschio
Жыл бұрын
I just tried with a Zilog Z80180, coincidently using the exact same dessoldering gun as Marc’s. I was easily able to reach the die, but it was covered by a layer of packaging material that just wouldn’t come off. RIP Z80Z180…
@leozendo3500
4 жыл бұрын
Beautiful!! Exact what I have been looking for for a long while
@stephendavies923
4 жыл бұрын
One word, even being an electronics techy myself... Amazing! Thank you for sharing.
@davidhunt240
3 жыл бұрын
Funny, we used to reclaim ICs from boards by putting them on the hob, turned down low and with an IC extractor, then yank those suckers out. That was over 30 years ago and we were utterly destitute electronics students that hadn't turned to crime or paid work to get components from reputable suppliers 🤪 We noticed that if we held an IC in the burner, it would often crack and a simple twist would reveal the innards. Unfortuately, we didn't have access to a decent microscope at the time, so the best we could see was around 50x I think, I did crack open a Sinclair Spectrum ULA back in the day and had a look at, nothing interesting on it as far as I recall. I just wanted the Z80 and the RAM (sacrilege I know!) for a shoestring microcontroller build. The last IC die I looked at was a T805 Transputer (of INMOS fame) a ceramic package that I put into a board then hit sideways on with a sharp chisel, the cap popped off to reveal the glory inside 🙂
@Sir_Uncle_Ned
4 жыл бұрын
It's amazing just how little of the package is actually the chip
@redoverdrivetheunstoppable4637
4 жыл бұрын
and these are from '94... now the miniaturization would make the equivalent of all the PS1 in a 2x2 mm die
@MobCat_
4 жыл бұрын
These high resolution pictures of dies that Antoine makes, are they available online anywhere?
@DJChol
4 жыл бұрын
You can get such pictures from siliconpr0n.org/map/ - It would be nice if Antoine submits his pictures there, too
@TheBypasser
4 жыл бұрын
@@DJChol Is there a chance on the release dates on those chips there? I recently dug in our junk box and found two DIP (lol) atMega8's which were a neat choice for a quick build, as I utterly needed a digital thermometer with a remote sensor. Got all my ASM prefabs close-by so an hour's work, what could go wrong? This: one of the chips, a brand new it seems, just didn't flash, and before you ask I long figured all those tricks like jumpstarting your chips by external clock etc (had to use on the second one, which was a used IC fused for external crystal which I didn't need nor want in this tool). So, looking at how the chip in question was paint-marked, not lased, I guess it was some fake junk I want to find the origins of and do some ass-kicking - though I wanted to X-Ray it first, and compare to the photos (as those things have additional marking on the chip itself too).
@winstonsmith478
4 жыл бұрын
There is also a large collection of die photos taken by an individual to be found somewhere on commons.wikimedia.org, but I can't find the right keywords to find it.
@pdu0lab578
4 жыл бұрын
@@winstonsmith478 I don't know if this the one you are talking about, but there is this user: commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Epop&ilshowall=1
@michal_king478
Жыл бұрын
how have I not thought of this. This is so much better than using dangerous chemicals. Guess its time to finally make some cool jewelery out of some old chips
@MaledictGaming
2 жыл бұрын
The only issue I have with this method is that once the Die is exposed all the heat will cause it to start growing oxide layers. If you do this method too slowly you might get some optical alterations on the die because of this. Which could make your Reverse-engineering efforts a bit of a pain.
@bborkzilla
4 жыл бұрын
The ultimate "Don't turn it on! Take it apart!"
@frogz
4 жыл бұрын
.....yes but dave as well as ave will put it back together and try it afterwards, anyone good with manually bonding wires to a die?
@michaelcherry8952
4 жыл бұрын
2:44 Looks like one of the chips has a premonition of what's about to happen. "Well, I'm out of here!" :-)
@PilotPlater
4 жыл бұрын
wow, I had no idea this could be so simple!
@dykodesigns
4 жыл бұрын
It’s just like breaking a chocolate bar and it’s a very fancy looking gas stove. Antoine is a proper chef de cuisine.
@GameTechRefuge
4 жыл бұрын
Part of me was saying "No not a Playstation". On the other hand, if any one is allowed to decap it's you guys. Considering all the hardware you restore and curate. It's also not like there's shortage of Playstation ones .
@pdrg
4 жыл бұрын
For anyone who likes decapsulation videos, may I suggest ElectronUpdate channel, where the guy gives a bit of a tour of what the different structures and patterns are likely to be - ROM, gate array, etc.
@shifter65
4 жыл бұрын
This is really neat! All of a sudden decapping has become something I can do!
@cartonpride7738
Жыл бұрын
Это на столько невероятно, что даже начинаешь сомневаться в том, что это создал человек )
@GoldSrc_
4 жыл бұрын
Wow, this method is way easier than using acid, might have to try it out.
@msylvain59
4 жыл бұрын
I tried this recipe and I failed perfectly: each time, the chip ended in several pieces, still solidly attached to the epoxy. What did I do wrong ? (the carrier plates came out quite nicely, however)
@adasdasdasdasdasd9678
4 жыл бұрын
in the video, those are older chips. modern chips are typically thinner, so you have to be very very careful.
@CuriousMarc
4 жыл бұрын
Antoine tells me it is due to the particular epoxy used in the package. On some packages the epoxy sticks to the die and he observes the same failure as you do. He is developing other promising methods to get around this right now.
@BGTech1
2 жыл бұрын
Surprised to see you here. I am currently working with this technique with ic chips with lots of success
@BGTech1
2 жыл бұрын
Unfortunately I’ve had this failure a few times with more complex chips and it can be frustrating
@Dong_Harvey
4 жыл бұрын
You guys have the best lab
@petes_ventures
7 ай бұрын
cool, can't wait to do this
@MarcAntoine01
4 жыл бұрын
So you are Marc, the chef is Antoine and me? Marc-Antoine :D Great vid!
@soniclab-cnc
4 жыл бұрын
lol.... I guess I have been watching too many delid videos if I can spot a ROM as soon as I see a bare die. #electronupdate All the older lithography is easier to see too though... Always a cool video, thanks Marc!
@gusbert
4 жыл бұрын
Very interesting and seemingly simple method! Does Antoine have a public access site to see his collection of die photographs?
@bennylloyd-willner9667
4 жыл бұрын
Antoine - quickest die draw in the world. Not even autofocus can keep up 😊
@bournejsn
4 жыл бұрын
This was awesome, love looking at the nano world
@bend1483
4 жыл бұрын
Wow. I may have to try this.
@SteelSkin667
4 жыл бұрын
The Cell has a big beautiful die, but it's a flip chip so I don't know if that technique works as well.
@adberco
4 жыл бұрын
@@SteelSkin667 Will not work, and the beauty will be hidden by an intricate top metal layer on the die that needs to be removed.
@ifitsrusteditsmine
4 жыл бұрын
You are cooking microchips in the kitchen... Yes, your wife is a SAINT. Take her out for dinner, she deserves it.
@pulesjet
4 жыл бұрын
Think I'll leave mine in the Packages. They're much easier to solder. You guys are saving the Gold Wires, eaaaa?
@GrantWyness
4 жыл бұрын
In an alternative universe Wolf would advertise the versatility of their stoves like this. The image of Gordon Ramsey and your wife giving a big thumbs-up to it would be surreal...
@Kosackk
4 жыл бұрын
Its like a whole universe in there, looks like a city from the future!
@nrdesign1991
4 жыл бұрын
11:20 that sounds *magical!*
@miles4711
4 жыл бұрын
I'd really like to know the name of the song or where to get it from. Unfortunately it's not the one Marc put into the video description. :-( Edit: @Q-Set Oldskool mentioned it in another comment: "CXNXR - EON". :-)
@nrdesign1991
4 жыл бұрын
A friend found out it is: *CXNXR - Eon*
@bobl78
4 жыл бұрын
don´t worry, when you`re out your wife calls her girls to have a barbecue in your lab
@bonbonpony
4 жыл бұрын
Is there a way to reuse such a decapped chip by connecting wires to it directly? Or they don't work anymore after this procedure? I have an old motherboard from a vintage computer broken in half and the chip packages are cracked, but your video made me realize that the chips inside might still be intact, so if I could take them out from the plastic, maybe there's still a way to revive them somehow? :J
@lucysluckyday
Жыл бұрын
What's the technique when you have a die with bond wires, BUT the die and bond wires were encased and covered in ceramic cement? Some of the Intel BGA chip (mid 90s) were like this, where the die was on the underside (but not a flip chip die). They would cover the die and bond wires over with black/brown ceramic. Is chemical the only option to dissolve the die away without ruining its top layers?
@tedvanmatje
4 жыл бұрын
The close-ups look like pictures off of a future google earth......post borg invasion, of course :)
@staglomagnifico5711
4 жыл бұрын
Google Earth of the Google Earth
@buenaventuralife
4 жыл бұрын
Back a few decades we would use a revolving whewt stone in water in water to slowly grind away the casse. It was usefulk for multi-layers. The results were good enough for high power microscopes or electron scanning microscopes
@ketas
4 жыл бұрын
somewhere in a small sheet of note paper i have stored an ic from soviet elektronika wristwatch... it would be fun to know die of that, likely western-cloned-stolen-pirated ic, would look like i hope i still have it, i was only teen then, it was decades ago, someone's watch broke and i took it apart, eventually discarded everything but the die, which i'm not sure how i managed to decap then but it remained intact... i still don't have any microscope yet to look at it
@VegasCyclingFreak
4 жыл бұрын
Looking at those dies is like looking at a city from miles above... pretty cool stuff. BTW, how hot is the air coming out of that hot air desolderer?
@eumoria
4 жыл бұрын
WOW! Excited for the next episode :D
@SidneyCritic
4 жыл бұрын
I wonder if tile cutting nipper pliers would split the casing perfectly along the seam so the top pops off. They have 2 chisel type jaws that could cut precisely into the seam.
@gautamdamodaran
4 жыл бұрын
"What have you been cooking?" No simple answer for that
@thomasvlaskampiii6850
4 жыл бұрын
Yeah there is. Chips
@waldsteiger
4 жыл бұрын
antoine is a hidden gem! i understand the man in the labcoat is hopping from one foot to the other?
@G4t0c
4 жыл бұрын
Fascinating
@maicod
4 жыл бұрын
1:35 spotted a real Chef ;-)
@edgeeffect
4 жыл бұрын
That's not "Chef"..... It's "Shirriff" :D :D :D :D :D
@maicod
4 жыл бұрын
@@edgeeffect yea I spotted master Ken ofc :D
@KunoKnoedel
4 жыл бұрын
He need his own channel! Very smart...
@3zuli
4 жыл бұрын
I remember doing this a few times in my teen years, but I used a burner instead of a heat gun as I didn't have one back then. This generated tons of black toxic fumes, so I stopped doing it. I still have a drawer full of random chips that I wanted to decap. Somehow it never occurred to me that I can just use a heat gun!
@davidhunt240
3 жыл бұрын
...turn down the heat? 😝 I used to do in my teens too, heat up a board on the hob, extract ICs, found this die splitting technique from being bored and wondering what was inside, it wasn't all that interesting, but then I didn't know then what I know now 😎
@BGTech1
2 жыл бұрын
@@davidhunt240 I’m a current teen doing it in by basement lol
@davidhunt240
2 жыл бұрын
@@BGTech1 yup, we were all young once 😝 I often wonder how I'm still alive after those years 😂
@jayanthyk
4 жыл бұрын
This is beautiful!
@BGTech1
2 жыл бұрын
Mark, What do I do if some of the Resin packages does not separate from the top of the die?
@CuriousMarc
2 жыл бұрын
Then you can't use this simple technique. You have to thin it down then use some nasty acid to attack the remaining plastic.
4 жыл бұрын
As always, very interesting!
@plgDavid
4 жыл бұрын
I successfully decapped a lot of chips but now I have a new problem. Can’t find the best way to store the dies. Tried looking for concave microscope slides but can’t find the right kind with a flat cavity. Tips?
@CuriousMarc
4 жыл бұрын
I use Gel-Pak boxes, which is what we used for dies in the clean room.
@plgDavid
4 жыл бұрын
CuriousMarc very interesting. That would be ideal. Thank you.
@adberco
3 жыл бұрын
I buy 2x2" ziplock bags, they are very cheap and very light. I also take a photo of the chip markings and print it as a small label to store them in the zip lock with the die.
@download333
4 жыл бұрын
Watching the dies under the microscope makes me want to go play factorio
@davidfranzkoch9789
4 жыл бұрын
How does he get rid of the dust particles afterwards? Looked like there was some dust on the chip in the first microscope shot. Could not spot any dirt on the colour photos, though.
@adberco
4 жыл бұрын
Picking them up with a needle when possible, and a lot of photoshop clone tool
@BGTech1
Жыл бұрын
Does Antoine post is die shots somewhere on the internet? I would love to see them.
@CuriousMarc
Жыл бұрын
He posts them mainly on Twitter. He is @Siliconinsid
@absalomdraconis
4 жыл бұрын
0:52 : "No judge, I didn't realize that doing this in the kitchen would cause Marc's wife to kill him. It was totally unforeseeable." Also, I hope you dig around for a 555 die. Curious how small those are.
@ovalteen4404
4 жыл бұрын
It's already been done. www.righto.com/2016/02/555-timer-teardown-inside-worlds-most.html
@stephenbeets00001
4 жыл бұрын
Can somebody tell me the artist and name of the song of the music that plays at 11:20? The credit in the video description is for Kevin MacLeod's "Fire Prelude", but that isn't the song playing starting at 11:20. If someone can help me with this, I would appreciate it greatly. Thank you.
@rogerlow9107
4 жыл бұрын
i think someone commented see the comments
@rogerlow9107
4 жыл бұрын
its CNXNR - EON
@thetaleteller4692
4 жыл бұрын
Cool, is there a way to get those hires photos of the dies? Would be a great poster :-D
@thdotaku
4 жыл бұрын
great trick, going to decap my chips now...
@jagardina
4 жыл бұрын
Well done
@BGTech1
2 жыл бұрын
What do you do if the die has a metallization layer on it?
@shifter65
4 жыл бұрын
Oh wow! That is cool
@dragonheadthing
4 жыл бұрын
That seems a lot safer than when I was just sticking chips in a fire as a kid.
@simonstergaard
4 жыл бұрын
Please tell me what glue he uses for glueing the dies on the microscope slides.
@redoverdrivetheunstoppable4637
4 жыл бұрын
i don't have an hot air gun, just an hair dryer and a blow torch, but i'm curious if it would be possible to hook some needles on the dies and see if they still respond, of course big digital ones may be a bit out of hand
@CuriousMarc
4 жыл бұрын
Yes, you should be able to make IC dies work by probing them. I don't have good probes in the lab for that, but have been trying to acquire some reasonably priced used ones for quite a while now. Not easy.
@adberco
4 жыл бұрын
If you want to do this, buy a paint removal hot air gun at the hardware store: hair dryer is not hot enough, while torch is too hot and leaves much damages on the die
@redoverdrivetheunstoppable4637
4 жыл бұрын
@@CuriousMarc AH... i simply turned on a 1W white LED without the phosphor (so the bonding wires were off) to let the blue light come out, i used a pair of regular needles and a 7$ USB microscope
@rationalactor
8 ай бұрын
FWIW a friend of mine uses old-fashioned methylene chloride Nitromors paint stripper to dissolve the epoxy packaging. Not tried it myself however, so your mileage may vary 😅
@electrofan7180
4 жыл бұрын
Wow, truly geek stuff. I wish I had a microscope some day...
@robk5969
4 жыл бұрын
does antoine upload photos from this to anywhere?
@jurek-zz3un
4 жыл бұрын
Is it possible to decap Desfire Ev1 chip and read data?
@Kalumbatsch
4 жыл бұрын
I've done this to a few broken ICs to test a cheap microscope I bought. Just cracked them open with a wire cutter.
@totolastico
4 жыл бұрын
Génial, vite la suite ! :-)
@SteelSkin667
4 жыл бұрын
"We're going to cook some chips and look at some dies" So, snacks and D&D? Sounds like a great time.
@TheLavadiver
4 жыл бұрын
fascinating
@casultaser
Ай бұрын
I want to see this done to CPUs, RAM, ROM, and other chips of stuff like Fisher- Price toys, flip phones, and POP Stationy LCD electronic games
@frogz
4 жыл бұрын
i've done this, fire works but if you take it too far, the die is discolored, still fully readable but clearly burnt :D
@frogz
4 жыл бұрын
also, try clamping the entire thing down and just hit the edge with a utlity knife once it is heated, you can usually pop the entire top off in 1 go, it is a bad idea to bend it in the middle as silicon is so fragile, a pair of side cutters off to the side and even diagnally in form the corner tends to snap it right at the egde of the lead frame and the die so you dont break the die as easily
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