If I recall, Lege wasn't even playing optimally by the halfway point in that match. He was trying to do a funny by pulling off both a science and culture victory on the same turn.
@Moros311
3 ай бұрын
Holy hell that's based
@wile123456
2 ай бұрын
swag% speedrun
@zer0her058
2 ай бұрын
@@Moros311sigma based
@loopuleasa
3 ай бұрын
This is like putting nobles that lived in peace time with grapes and wine against a spartan that lived inside practical war for all his life.
@RocketPropelledMexican
3 ай бұрын
Unsupervised pitbull inside a preschool
@Cropak_Napeik
3 ай бұрын
Hydrogen bomb vs Coughing Baby
@oliver1784
3 ай бұрын
@@Cropak_Napeikthis sentence never fails to make me laugh
@ProtonCannon
3 ай бұрын
Not true, they are coming fro ma different game environment playing against different opponents. Plus, as the video said, the game did not Use BBG mod and without that Hojo's Japan is the number one top strongest civ in the game when it come to MP and Lege knew this.
@alco2459
3 ай бұрын
@@ProtonCannonno it isn't. Hojo has barely been changed in BBG. Gaul, Babylon, Russia are way stronger in vanilla
@johnk620
3 ай бұрын
i got into an discussion with Potato like a year ago cause i said comms before campus is better. He said campus scale better into late game, this video validates a lot of stuff i figuerd out after 1000+ hours in this game
@nigerianprinceajani
3 ай бұрын
The only thing I dislike about this is that I don't always want a Holy Site / Encampment but I always want the boost for State Workforce (Idk what the Civic is called in english, is this correct?). In general I came to the same conclusion, I often find myself even building an IZ before my first Campus.
@brandonedwards6119
3 ай бұрын
In AI games he's right though. It's way too easy to get gold from the ai to prioritize over tech trees.
@nigerianprinceajani
3 ай бұрын
@@brandonedwards6119 It's not just the gold, it's the trade route. You can easily get +2 F +4 P on trade routes ~turn 100 on standard game speed. That's a Grassland Hills Mine that doesn't need pop to be worked and this is before bonusses from Isolationism/Civs.
@thenazzarow5789
3 ай бұрын
@@brandonedwards6119 You build the commercial hubs for the trade route slot, not for the gold generated.
@alexandrunicolae1054
3 ай бұрын
it's like the meme where decent up average players only do commercial first, while singleplayer plebs say campus is better, and multiplayer good players also go campus first (this is not true in all scenarios, you need a good spawn, couple 3 food tiles and decent adjecency) to do triple/double discount.
@ramirodesouza37
3 ай бұрын
I was one of the people who just did civ 6 against deity, then against deity++. By just watching some of your videos, I have already transformed the way I play into something way closer to multiplayer, with better stats and 10 cities by turn 50/250. Thanks!
@scritch9549
3 ай бұрын
This strat work for diety?
@PlankShard
3 ай бұрын
@@scritch9549 Yeah? It's literally the most optimal strat to play the game. The non-competitive streamers that can beat deity with little trouble are simply being more efficient than the ai. Competitive players have to be more efficient that other humans which leads to them finding better and better ways to play the game way past what the ai can do.
@scritch9549
3 ай бұрын
@@PlankShard dont know How I fucked it up, but I fucked it up… first diety win is a pain in the ass. Immortal I got first try without a planned strat T_T
@frogvie3624
3 ай бұрын
the general strategy yeah, but you have to adjust things a bit to be prepared for early war/be able to prevent early war, since some of the diety AI can be quite aggressive.
@nhs.14
3 ай бұрын
@@frogvie3624 this. I play with friends and because most of the time we only play with 4/5 people so we fill it with AI, but the strat i use is really depend on whether i start close to AI or not, because deity AI really love to grieve you, yet making military unit that early is suboptimal for MP games
@ttx2202
3 ай бұрын
I'm a single player gamer myself but I often wonder why so many single player streamers tend to rusch the science while I refuses to finish techs (with district cost's in mind) - I have began to questoning my own strategy and understanding of the meta but this video confirmed alot om my own earky assumptions, thank you!
@shivaramoutar5333
3 ай бұрын
On deity if you get attacked and are significantly behind in tech you just insta lose. The ai just has to many ways to cheat
@ttx2202
3 ай бұрын
@@shivaramoutar5333 Sure, I agree on the first part but you rarely fall that behind in the early game (with or without campuses and even with the bonuses the cpu get). Your archers and warriors can defend for a while you build some economy/grow. I wouldn't call the cpu bonuses cheating, it's just a setting of your choice...
@krityaan
3 ай бұрын
@@ttx2202 That's just wrong. The CPU benefits on Deity are cheating by definition. They get a 40% boost on science, culture. 100% boost on production / gold, +4 CS, 5 free techs and 3 settlers at start. The Deity AI will reach Renaissance before you hit Medieval. Its just expected. No amount of archers is defending Cuirassiers with +4. You get gold by cheesing the AI, and focus on keeping up best you can.
@TrumpSC
3 ай бұрын
I'm going to win one of these novice lobbies one of these days >:)
@2Links
3 ай бұрын
damn, remember watching your heartstone stuff many years ago
@EnormousApplePie
3 ай бұрын
Damn, I remember your civ 5 NQ day stuff many, many years ago
@clappanoia9970
3 ай бұрын
The goat
@loopuleasa
3 ай бұрын
post vids
@swaggyjimmy
3 ай бұрын
TRUMP!!! ❤
@xXYellowFlash
3 ай бұрын
As someone who recently picked up civ when it was on sale. I have found your videos really helpful in learning multiplayer civ!! Thanks!
@Gusthebusisreal
3 ай бұрын
Me too. I had freinds to play with so it’s going to be fun :3
@becomeunreasonable7508
29 күн бұрын
This is a very good video, i actually understood the strategy piece by piece instead of trying to follow along, you’ve got an excellent way of coupling thoughts and decisions together top notch
@MrWill830
3 ай бұрын
I've only played Civ6 a handful of times with the lads. I'm a super competitive person, but Civ6 would not scratch my itch for victory well enough for me to truly be interested in both playing it and becoming good at it. That being said, holy shit that is a HIGH quality video.
@Rycidex
3 ай бұрын
0:39 "no fresh water" yeah what about that great big lake over there?
@scarletrobin
3 ай бұрын
Wow this video was awesome. I had no idea about the mechanics behind district costs so the numbers breakdown on that was super helpful. I'm kind of pleasantly surprised at how many mechanics I have been able to figure out by myself though like not spamming workers until feudalism and rushing that civic. My friends ask me how I'd get so far ahead in games and I honestly didn't have a good explanation for it beyond "it just seems good". Sending them this will be a lot more helpful for them
@bernieclinton9572
27 күн бұрын
I don’t understand how people find playing like this fun
@chucknorris3752
6 күн бұрын
skill issue tbh.
@GOLDENCHEESE34
4 күн бұрын
You can think of it like driving. Some people enjoy just being behind the wheel and others enjoy racing F1 cars or Rally racing. They all appreciate cars and any skills learning the harder stuff still transfer to them when they wanna just drive on the road.
@Cless84
3 ай бұрын
I like how you used the sigma function XD. Really thanks for your vids and advice, I have learnt a lot.
@JMaximusIX
22 күн бұрын
Little Gauß would not be amused
@swingforgame7229
3 ай бұрын
I have 3k hours in Civ 6, 1.5k in civ 5 and about 10k between Civ 3, rev, BE & 4. Last night I jumped into Multiplayer for the first time, downloaded BBG, and found out I'm a NOVICE!!! 😭Time to learn all over again
@giancarlocafaro6734
2 ай бұрын
Yo I just gotta add to the chorus of voices praising this video. Best video about general civ strategy bar none. Very well organized, clear and concise, explains the strat and why it’s optimal, just masterclass all around. Thank you
@Mortyst
3 ай бұрын
This video was a great introduction to your channel, thanks!
@Vlad.Kr.Iv.
Ай бұрын
Man, you are a genius! I searched such a research for a very long time. Now I armed not only with experience and practice, but a theory.
@Zondagskind.Gaming
3 ай бұрын
Going to leave a mixed review here. The actual info on the multiplayer meta is great and it's no wonder your channel has blown up: you present your info really well in a space that is sparsely populated on KZitem. It's a concise three-stage approach and it's overall a good recruitment ad for the CPL community and centrepiece tutorial for your channel. The cold open about the CivGive doesn't mention that the point of the CivGive isn't competition but charity - people have donation goals to make actively bad plays and just generally goof around. But that's fine, it works as a cold open and it is valid that Lege was likely to stomp the rest no matter the spawn, although again, presenting that unequal line-up as a "problem" misses the point of a charity event. The part at 7:47 just feels vindictive however. Saying "a common noob-trap" whilst singling out one of the most seasoned singleplayer creators out there is plain rude. Potato isn't playing multiplayer there. Singleplayer creators just have different goals from CPL contestants. In the video you clipped, Potato isn't speedrunning the science victory. He's showcasing a newly-released civ by playing around Lincoln's ability. Part of that is prioritising IZs, which he places right after the clip you show. That's a pretty deceptive edit. There's so much good info and editing in this video, that it's a shame that it also suggests that we're "noobs" who need to "learn how to play", dividing the SP and MP communities. It's unnecessary and uncalled for, so it's too bad that it wasn't edited out of what would otherwise have been a five-star video.
@HersonCiv
3 ай бұрын
Your criticisms are fair enough. I definitely did a bit of editorializing with the CivGive 2022 bit at the beginning, largely just because I was too lazy to actually watch the whole thing. The central thesis still works - Lege is the only one with a strong grasp of multiplayer build orders and so dominated the event - but there are still three things that I think I might want to clear up if I could redo this video: 1. The people involved in the event all knew Lege was a stronger player than everyone else there, so he was expected to win (I imply his dominance came as a shock) 2. As the event was a charity stream, the goal was to prolong the game while keeping it entertaining, not to win as quickly as possible. Most players in the event still played pretty normally, but there were plenty of instances of messing around as well, the most egregious example of which is Boesthius setting & fulfilling a $500 charity donation goal to delete one of his settlers. I thought that viewers could infer that this game was more casual in nature simply given the facts that I give in the video: it was a charity stream filled mostly with content creators without much multiplayer experience. Perhaps I should've stated this explicitly instead of relying on implication. 3. I say Lege is the only player with multiplayer experience, when in reality OnSpotTV was also playing. OnSpotTV doesn't really play competitively himself, but he does a lot of work helping to organize some of the competitive multiplayer leagues and casts a lot of their games. Saying Lege is the only player in the lobby with multiplayer experience is inaccurate, but I'd stand by the statement that Lege was the only one in the game who actually had a firm grasp of the meta strategies that I outlined in this video.
@user-dc5ti1is1s
3 ай бұрын
I exclusively play multiplayer with friends on civ, playing with someone that has only played singleplayer can be very interesting. Even just playing with friends, Gold, Production/Faith were almost always rushed because it is just what gets u going first
@rouvey
3 ай бұрын
Really enjoyed this video, sent me on a binge through a bunch of your videos. The intro is a great hook. I think maybe you should put something about this (i.e. how multiplayer players can beat even veteran singleplayer players easily) into the title maybe, though I have no experience with this, and you probably have more metrics on what kind of titles work (I think the thumbnail is already pretty perfect on the other hand, it's what got me to watch at least).
@deeznoots6241
2 ай бұрын
Real chads play multiplayer civ 3
@pablocamposmora3277
3 ай бұрын
Very nice tutorial. I saw one recomending Corea for beginners and it almost took me the ilusion to play the game, I struggled with the production issues. I havn't played many FFA games, but I have learned some lessons: players tend to play as if they were alone in the map, only focusing on developing and late game (this is always better if no war happens with the neigbours). But I love early and mid-game war, so I learned how to put in practice the Gorgo, Trajan and Alexander power spikes. You start conquering the closest cities (usually city states) and the closest neigbour player usually melts to all this violence, problem is, I end up falling behind compared with the players that are simming and chilling all game. So, I consider more useful early wars in team games, as any victory upon enemy beneffits your whole team and vice versa. Also consider the fact, in online speed, many war focused civs with ancient unique units will find it difficult to hit with their power strike unless you are close enouph to enemy. The more experienced player you are, the eassier you adapt to different situations you can find in the game. My recommendation for new players: learn to play Gorgo. Even in deity level (you will probably get early agresion), hoplites packed together are very solid and culture is always useful to get better policy cards. And as Bruce Lee said "I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times". Traduced to CIV games, if you get to know really well the strength and weaknesses of one particular civ, you can beat strong enemies with it.
@akshatmaheshwari5633
3 ай бұрын
Hey Onspottv's Michael is also well versed in mp meta both as a player and caster. 😤
@Vis_Electra
3 ай бұрын
Michael is a good caster, yes. But calling him well versed in the meta as a player is a sentiment that the 'cool kids' in CPL certainly won't share.
@jonaselbers8906
3 ай бұрын
@@Vis_Electra bro i cant watch him, he cant stop talking, even if its bs
@naturessilentobserver2397
3 ай бұрын
Yea he’s a better caster than player 10/10 lol
@akshatmaheshwari5633
3 ай бұрын
@@Vis_Electra Michael may not be a top player like Lege, but he obviously knows the MP meta. His commentary and insights show he’s got a good handle on it. He's been contributing to the MP community for a long time, not just farming Deity AI for content like some other creators. Do you think Michael isn't aware of the strategies Herson shares on his channel?
@Comereal
3 ай бұрын
Awesome video, Ive been struggling in mp games for a while now because I play the same way as I would play against AI, Ill definitely be checking out your other videos for more information about how I should change my playstyle in mp.
@KasumiRINA
Ай бұрын
4:00 I rarely finished Civ games before, either ending in a stalemate war early on, or getting to the boring part and restarting, but recently decided to finally get achievements knocked out for all victory conditions and no matter what I played, I found that Monumentality is SO BROKEN, and it synergizes with Serfdom (and the governor that adds 1 charge to city that poops out builders) in insane way. I also focused on either religion or harbors instead of production like before, AND found feed the world sensible (I usually did religious settlements but AI keeps taking it)... Oh and yeah, more trade routes via market or lighthouse spam is what makes sense with how roads function... SO, most of these tips for early game are no brainers, but I didn't use them myself until recently... I wonder what stops people from getting that in Civ 6, experience with older games?
@LevelRaisin
3 ай бұрын
I found this video very helpful, but found your explanation about why you delay techs confusing. This is because according to the Civ 6 wiki, the production cost of a district depends on the larger ratio of techs vs civics completed. This means that even if you're completing techs, as long as you're completing fewer techs than civics, it doesn't affect the cost of the districts. Didn't see this addressed in any comments either. So I understand why you don't build campuses immediately, but not why you should delay them once your civics are sufficiently far ahead, and why you would shift+enter to avoid researching techs.
@HondaSpaceship
3 ай бұрын
the wiki is correct, but he did address this when he said to skip unnecessary civics on the way to fuedalism. The answer is that it is generally easier and more common to get high science and complete more of the tech tree (and therefore raise district cost) than the civic tree because it is easier to have high campus adjacency than theatre. So yes, you want to keep both low while getting to key techs/ civics (trading district/apprenticeship/fuedalism) asap
@mubashir122000
2 ай бұрын
I have to be honest. I bought the game yesterday but it was still hard for me to apply what you said in practice. I am doing my best to practicing the steps you said and it will take a while to digest. Thank you for this Video.
@ctleans6326
3 ай бұрын
I needed this guide 3 years ago
@whisk8700
2 ай бұрын
Really cool video, I have always been curious about the difference between pvp and pve civ!
@lancearmada
3 ай бұрын
I wish a lot more of these strategy games had information like this out there.
@nathanaelsallhageriksson1719
3 ай бұрын
As an experianced civ5 player, in both single and multiplayer, hearing that science focus is detrimental is the most alien thing to me. But it really makes me want to play civ6 more, since it sounds like the wild west.
@GiggityxGamer
2 ай бұрын
I feel like the whole teaming up at the end if there is going to be a winner is fair and realistic. It should be part of diplomacy and tactics to put yourself in a position that you can either distract oppoonents or defend yourself if you are close to victory
@MadMage86
27 күн бұрын
This is all interesting.... I LOVE muiltiplayer Civ games, but strictly only play with friends. I don't know how relevant this is to you, but I've played Civ since Civ 2 and have loved the series for a while, and I don't even recall which iteration this happened with, but I dipped my toes into the online multiplayer community ONCE in all my years of playing Civ - a player spawned near me as Egypt and rushed me with Chariots within 30 turns, taking me out of the game entirely. I then declared the community a toxic place and have never even considered going back... it's an interesting phenomenon I see sometimes in the Magic community, as well: completely doming a new player removes that player permanently from your community.
@kingdomofthesaintful
3 ай бұрын
This video helped me understand why I don't like Civilization VI in comparison to its predecessors
@bryanbuster3295
3 ай бұрын
Do you still chop trees etc if they are on flat land that you don't plan on building districts on? I'm talking specifically about right after you get serfdom. Since you cannot build mines on flatland. This is assuming GS rules where lumbermills are actually competetive with mines
@HersonCiv
3 ай бұрын
It's true that chopping woods on a flat tile basically ruins the tile in a way that chopping woods on hills doesn't. So, to answer your question, whether or not you should chop flat woods really depends on the overall quality of land of the city it belongs to. Cities only need as many good tiles as they have population, after all. If a city is really low on hills & resources, it's often better to just build a lumber mill on flat woods instead of chopping. However, if a city already has an abundance of good tiles, it's better to just chop the flat woods. Also, if the city in question has the governor Magnus in it, you can just chop the flat woods - no need to think about it too hard. The 50% extra yields on feature harvesting from Magnus's ability makes chopping way too good to pass up
@Crowbar
3 ай бұрын
@@HersonCiv do you also chop woods on luxury resources, like silk for example? I asume yes.
@Cecilia-ky3uw
3 ай бұрын
@@HersonCiv huh, I've ruined cities by chopping once.
@zertyuz
Ай бұрын
wow really a great video, made me want to try civ multiplayer for the first time, thank you!
@hakonatli
3 ай бұрын
Really interesting and well structured video 😊
@marcinfmpl3801
3 ай бұрын
Me somehow subconsciously doing this almost exactly when playing civ 6 from day 1 when not even trying to be competitive
@luisgutierrez8047
3 ай бұрын
My first dual MP. Was when i got into an argument that Byzanthium suuuuucks compared to Hungary. As it has better economy and bonuses can't be played around so easily. Would have won but dude spawned next to paitity, eventually that advantage was too overwhelming. Like.... imagine my shock when i find out dude made an unbalanced map in his favour 😑
@Quetzietse
Ай бұрын
As an offline player, I think that investing in science early game is useless in the offline meta (high difficulties) as well. The AI gets simply too strong of a buff to bother competing with them on that front. Additionally, there are various ways for players lagging behind to catch up, like reduced technology cost for tech of earlier era's. Being slow on tech can also delay eras a little buit, meaning the aI will now have to pay a penatly for trying to research tech of a future era, nerfing their buffs a bit. The Eureka system is also worth mentioning: fulfilling a certain condition reduces a specific techs costs by 40%, which is huge, and a lot of those conditions are just things you want to do anyway, like building three archers for self-defense, or creating a trade route. It has more payoff to use the early game and your production to gain eureka's (and invest in more production/spreading out in general). Once you actually have a competitive science factory built, you can just race through technologies to get the snowballing rolling in the middle game, at which point you can actually overtake the AI and their buffs. .
@ShOOmet
3 ай бұрын
Amazing videoooo! Please make more content ❤❤❤❤ I joined CPL thanks to youuu
@ldanielgelves5826
3 ай бұрын
thanks for this masterclass... 500 hours still a noob
@Kataang101
26 күн бұрын
Thanks for the info. I love learning strats and Multiplayer strategy sounds super fun (especially now I can hopefully crush my friends :D)
@Jack_Rakan
3 ай бұрын
I don't begrudge players that focus on multiplayer, and understand that their build orders are much better. It's just that, for me at least, that reaches 'optimizing the fun out of a game' levels of tryharding. Since the late game (which I count at turns 180+ on standard speed) is already extremely similar between games, I have to get my 'fun' out of the early to mid game. And on that note, I've recently started to REDUCE the difficulty from Deity to Emperor, so that I can use different and more unoptimized strategies early. Going to multiplayer seems rather counterproductive to that, since now all my early games will look very similar too (which is part of the reason I went down from Deity in the first place)
@HondaSpaceship
3 ай бұрын
To each their own, but to me the difference is that the mid/late game in sp is boring because you are going thru the motions of a won game you've done before, while the mid/late game in mp can be very fun because real players make it challenging, even more so imo in team games. If that makes sense don't hesitate to come play on CPL
@thups4636
3 ай бұрын
Link to the said lege video please.
@HersonCiv
3 ай бұрын
The game I reference is from Civ Give 2022, which you can find here: kzitem.info/news/bejne/yqqw1m2bmpqaf6Q
@thups4636
3 ай бұрын
@@HersonCiv you are amazing
@mickycreedon2103
3 ай бұрын
Just waiting for the Potato breakdown video now
@ItsMinoAgain
11 күн бұрын
How would the early game be played without DLC? Considering, without Magnus, internal trade routes are much less efficient and you cant rely on Pen Brush and Voice to supplement your early culture.
@tombratcher6938
Ай бұрын
Me, struggling to win on King:
@albroogy
3 ай бұрын
Really helpful video, subbed!
@lee-fc5bu
3 ай бұрын
potato def saw this video and started playing mp lol
@nhs.14
3 ай бұрын
like fr. i got rekted trying deity strat on MP. MP are different beast and feels like playing with deity is just a breeze
@OnyxZeroX
3 ай бұрын
This video explains why I do so well with Tokugawa and not so much with other civs 😂 he incentivizes commercial and harbors for trade routes so campus’ come last. Makes total sense now lol
@benismann
15 күн бұрын
While i didnt think of many of those nuances and never really played serious multiplayer, I, on my own, found that going for money-disctricts first resulted better games. It just felt way bettter to start with them than science or smth, turns out i was right!
@hundvd_7
3 ай бұрын
What the hell, Shift+Enter is a LIFECHANGER
@galador8089
2 ай бұрын
Hey, I absolutely love these videos, new subscriber :) how does the stuff you discussed here change without BBG? Unfortunately some friends and I have civ via epic so we can't install mods...
@imnotnotgameiacmaniac5327
2 ай бұрын
all of the core principals here asre still correct (1. what resources to prioritice in which sections of the game, dsitrict cost scaling feudalism builder smap etc,) but no mod commercial hubs and harbors are a fair bit weaker and holy site spam a lot stronger due to 30% discount from monumentality instead of 10 and stronger civs.
@frogvie3624
3 ай бұрын
I had never heard of CPL, the second place system is really smart. back in civ 5 days you just got banned from the community if you quit mid-game!
@defforadio6428
3 ай бұрын
Bets civ6 guides ever!
@Patton1944
3 ай бұрын
I recently got into Diplomacy, and it's interesting how, conpared to that game, it's seen as a taboo to just solve the problem of there being only a couple of viable winners by having the low power players team up on stronger ones. If someone is risking a solo victory in Diplomacy, two players that have been fighting all game will drop everything to support each other. Not saying that ganging up is a good thing or a bad thing, just reflecting on the cultural difference between two games.
@Patton1944
3 ай бұрын
As a follow up, man, Civ 6 mp looks weird compared to Civ 5 mp lol. I guess there are less pivitol techs in Civ 6 overall? One big thing I think about regarding Civ 5 are how it actually sorta has timing attacks akin to rts games like Starcraft. There are a few mil techs that one can aim towards for their key timing tech, then the pump out a bunch of the unit that tech unlocked, and doing an all out offensive on a neighbor or two with that unit. If you're not doing that though, you're generally rushing the tech that gives universities.
@HondaSpaceship
3 ай бұрын
@@Patton1944 Herson here is talking about FFA where timing attacks before the late game basically don't work. In team games, it is very viable to go for timing attacks at horse, knight/courser, cavalry, heli/jet bomber etc
@nickpodliska7847
17 күн бұрын
I have 1500 hours on civ and still feel like I know nothing lol
@dreamscloser
3 ай бұрын
Herson you forgot to take into account +30% prod card for 3 charges builders (assuming that if we have selfdom card active we might have +30% prod card active before feu), so its not 1.7k prod, but instead 1.2k something which is extra 50-55% of 792 selfdom builders. So considering prod in case u went early science (teamers game for instance where sometimes u have to go civil service faster and have to unlock mili units for push/defence faster) and reached apprenticeship earlier you should just keep building builders. obv its not the case of monumentality/gold buying tho
@HersonCiv
3 ай бұрын
If we really want to get into the nitty-gritty, there's also the fact that you only need Serfdom active on the turn you complete builders to get the full value out of it, whereas you need the +30% prod card active for every turn where you're producing builders. Part of what makes Serfdom good is that you can just slot the card in, plop out a ton of builders over the span of 3-4 turns, and then slot the card out without wasting any value. Secondly, I want to caution against a common math mistake. It's easy to think "30% extra production towards builders" is equivalent to "30% discount on builders", but that's not the case. With a 30% discount, it'd require (1700 * 0.7) = 1190 production rather than 1700 to make those builders. With 30% extra production, though, it'd require (1700 / 1.3) = 1308 production instead. Neither number quite lines up with "1.2k something". Lastly, you can actually stack the +30% prod and serfdom cards early. At first, this seems impossible, as you lose access to the 30% prod towards builders card as soon as you unlock Serfdom. Let me explain. You see how, at 12:00, I had already prebuilt multiple builders until they were 1 turn from finishing, prior to unlocking feudalism? All of that pre-production was done with the policy card for +30% production towards builders active. So, we'd need to account for the fact that some of the serfdom builders also benefited from the 30% prod card. As for your last point, you're right, the teamers meta is very different from FFA. In FFA, your build order has to be self-sufficient, and it has to scale well. In Teamers, however, if you spawn next to someone on the enemy team and think the best play would be to kill them, you can go for a much more science-heavy build, make some early builders & chop out some heavy chariots, and then ask your teammates to trade you gold so you can upgrade them to knights as soon as you unlock them (a campus opener can't afford to upgrade their units as quickly as they unlock them w/o teammates to help). This is a great way to kill another player (always worth it in teamers!), but build orders like this come at the expense of getting completely out-scaled as the game continues, even if you win the war. Your production is gonna suck, and you'll eventually get overtaken in science by the players who opened com hubs & waited until serfdom to produce most of their builders.
@sircheese6217
3 ай бұрын
Maybe with all of the good work you are doing, the civ mp community will grow and the devs will bless us with better multiplayer infrastructure Perhaps then the Great Curse will be lifted.
@alfredv4724
3 ай бұрын
Gonna use this knowledge to merc my friends next time we play
@minmax38
2 ай бұрын
the GOAT dropped a whole thesis
@henrymason7910
3 ай бұрын
Is there any where for us to watch that?
@Crowbar
3 ай бұрын
the builder cost scaling calculation ignored the 30% production towards builders card, not that it changes the idea much
@danibeas9032
3 ай бұрын
say what you will about Potato but I wouldnt have found CPL or this channel without him
@ozymandias8523
3 ай бұрын
11:45 it seems that serfdom needs to be nerfed to +1 extra build charge +10% production towards builders, instead of +2 build charges. That would be a net 72% efficiency approx.
@ben-v1t7i
Ай бұрын
it'd be cool if you put the link for his channel or the others up. thank you
@nasseq
3 ай бұрын
so to win mp, you need to minmax by gaming the game's internal formulas? sounds like fun
@omfgacceptmyname
Ай бұрын
"playing for 2nd" this is just like playing for spread. i think it's a good system for a game like civ
@jplayer073
3 ай бұрын
So, uh, how many days does a multiplayer match last?
@HondaSpaceship
3 ай бұрын
generally 2-5 hours. they are always played in one session
@italy6434
3 ай бұрын
I never thought I would use sigma notation for civ 6 lol
@legegaming2839
3 ай бұрын
very good job, we are waiting u soloplayers👍
@igotbrenz
3 ай бұрын
😂
@noahkling2351
3 ай бұрын
Great video! I'm very new to civ and have been trying to improve my multiplayer strategy as I often find myself falling behind. I was curious as to what you recommend in terms of 2nd districts in the early to mid game. I have currently been rushing currency for comm hubs and running internal trade routes with magnus in my capital, but I often find my culture to be very behind. I have usually only been building monuments in terms of culture, should I be focusing more on building theater squares early? I'm pretty sure i've never been over 150 culture a turn and thats after turn 150+. I usually go for a gov plaza 2nd in my cap, and then campuses followed by IZ's. Also I was wondering how many IZ's I should be building, as recently I was told that its better to build one between multiple cities rather than building multiple in many cities. If so, do I build one in my capital and 2nd best city to maximize their production for future science/culture victories? Thanks!
@BenBenBenBenBenBenBenBenBenB
3 ай бұрын
So why isn't this the dominant strategy when playing against the AI as well? It seems like it would be optimal either way.
@R0BIN_
3 ай бұрын
He did it in the most recent video
@wordshurt2676
2 ай бұрын
KZitemrs rarely played competitive multiplayer, so there was never this evolutionary drive to min max to this degree. Also youtubers are trying to make interesting videos, min maxing all the time would hurt their views
@mutedknght
3 ай бұрын
Early-ish in the video but does Civ 6 not have aggression phases like civ 5? I remember tech breakpoints at crossbow, artillery (less so), and bombers being SUPER important because if you weren't building military when those techs came in your civ just exploded. Are the breakpoints just all based on total development instead?
@vincenturquhart1370
2 ай бұрын
I find it weird how he glossed over the possibility of teaming up with others to take down the winners because its "not the point of free for all". do people really not do this? Political play is the most fun element of every multilateral conflict games. Really wierd that anyone could think it is against the nature of free for alls. might as well play single player if you don't play politically
@davidanderegg1232
3 ай бұрын
I feel so validated. Seen so many streamers trashing on internal trade routes and spamming campus that I was starting to second guess my hours of crushing diety ai and even my friends
@Recline17
3 ай бұрын
This type of video is amazing. Couple of questions. Which improvement tiles are ok to chop and which ones should be inproved? And second, should you be moving magnus around to newer cities and have your trade routes start from the new city in order for that new city to gain more food and production early on?
@HersonCiv
3 ай бұрын
You generally want to chop most things that yield food or production, especially if they're located on a hill (as you can then build a mine on the tile). If your pantheon buffs a particular type of tile improvement, don't chop bonus resources that accept that improvement (for example, don't chop sheep if your pantheon is +1 culture on pastures). As for Magnus, BBG gives him a second promotion for buffing internal trade routes sent to the city he's assigned to, so commercial hub & harbor openers generally keep him stationary for more trade route value. On civs that open holy sites instead, roaming Magnus around from city to city for extra chop value is the norm. You can watch my other videos for more details
@Recline17
3 ай бұрын
@@HersonCiv you are the without a doubt my favorite civ content creator. Thank you for your response and your videos!
@Cecilia-ky3uw
3 ай бұрын
@@HersonCiv huh, presumably the holy site openers result in prioritising culture a lot more since you want to make the most value out of monumentality, or am I wrong?
@BigDaddyWes
2 ай бұрын
It's so crazy to me that mods are used in competitive play.
@noodleesnorter
Ай бұрын
do the builders granted by ancestral hall also inflate the production cost of builders. and if it does, does faith and gold purchasing also increase the cost?
@HersonCiv
Ай бұрын
Yes to all. Even getting a builder from a tribal village increases the cost of future builders. The only way to obtain a builder without increasing the cost of future builders is to capture one belonging to another civ, or obtain one through the unique ability of the Aztec Eagle Warrior.
@thomassabino13
2 ай бұрын
@Herson you do coaching?
@HersonCiv
2 ай бұрын
Not at the moment
@thomassabino13
2 ай бұрын
@HersonCiv if you are interested, would make good content, like with league of legends etc. And I think people could really get alot out of it. I know i would. Thanks man great videos
@mariogunawan5844
3 ай бұрын
This is so good! One question, when should you build monoliths? I think I have almost never built it
@HersonCiv
3 ай бұрын
Assuming there aren't any high-priority tile improvements to build, I'll just go a monument first in my 2nd and 3rd cities. My capital goes scout -> scout -> settler -> settler -> monument at the start of the game most of the time, too. You need the two scouts ASAP as they're often essential for generating enough era score to secure your first golden age. Beyond that, however, I don't often build that many monuments. The Better Balanced Game mod buffs the Pen, Brush & Voice golden age dedication to grant +2 culture per district instead of +1, so if you're running that dedication, there's no reason to go for a monument when you could just build a commercial hub in a new city right away instead.
@mariogunawan5844
3 ай бұрын
@@HersonCiv Thanks a lot!
@orcamaster985
Ай бұрын
Does the builder production scale with builders purchased with faith or given for free like capturing, villages, and pyramid?
@codetime01
Ай бұрын
Yes if you are producing them (through prod, faith or gold), no if you take them from someone else
@ben-v1t7i
Ай бұрын
im at 12;13 in and im loving this
@martinscholz499
Ай бұрын
does this also work in other time setting games? like standard time etc.
@ABru2011
3 ай бұрын
Thank you! Very helpful indeed
@blatantmoose454
3 ай бұрын
This video has been extreme helpful. I will not roll my civ discord in future games lol
@villekorpi714
2 ай бұрын
Very illuminating.
@simsom4343
Ай бұрын
Huh, so my strategy of always going Germany and _rushing_ for Commercial hubs + Hansa combo wouldn't be so bad in mp games... interesting
@0oSCHMILLENo0
2 ай бұрын
Honestly, knowing the stuff you just said....kind of ruined the game for me..idk why, I just don't want to play it any more. Everything got turned upside down
@TCCL227
3 ай бұрын
Thanks!
@jamespetersen212
3 ай бұрын
Regarding district cost scaling in the early game: seeing as we have to research something, with the multiplayer helper mod, would it be more valuable to research the more expensive techs in the early game, after getting the few required techs?
@HersonCiv
3 ай бұрын
You're on the right track, but you can get fancier. After grabbing all of the techs you need for your early districts and tile improvements, you can just keep switching between a bunch of different techs, leaving them all half-finished so you don't unlock anything for a while. Importantly, however, you'll want to get the Apprenticeship technology for the passive +1 production it grants on all mines around the same time as you unlock Feudalism, so that your builders have something useful to build. If you have around twice as much culture as you have science, rushing straight for apprenticeship w/o delay should have you completing the technology around the same time as you unlock feudalism, so if you have stats like 20 sci / 40 culture, there's no need to do any of the fancy tech switching stuff I mentioned - just rush feudalism and apprenticeship (and don't forget to trigger the apprenticeship eureka for building 3 mines!)
@Quiczor
Ай бұрын
Also how is multiple people teaming up to attack the strongest player against the FFA format. That is to my understanding the cornerstone of a FFA format is the diplomacy and balancing the aggression of the other players against your power?
@txoumin707
Ай бұрын
often the lead makes it that unless said players all manage to get units relevant enough they'll just destroyed by bombers and jet fighters or simplye GDRs. tech lead is no joke and a lot of min maxing techs and their optimisation goes into differentiating a regular mp player and a top mp player. so then the question for the players is if we team up, maybe we can get units in to pillage but we'll lose a lot for little actual impact, is it worth? Or worse : who's gonna get to face the counter attack? which would be basically gambling that you're not gonna be razed for the attempt. (tends to makes the closest players to the game leader(s) not willing to get in the line of fire) if players are close enough to be militarily able to impact game leaders they also usually are able to contest said victories conditions that the main lead might be going for.
@Quiczor
Ай бұрын
@@txoumin707 Ahhh yeah that final point makes sense and is the biggest problem of FFA formats, since it basically takes away the FFA aspect of the FFA due to the vulnerability that attacking gives. Though the first point you made makes it sound like Civ 6 isn't balanced very well militarily, since if someone is running away with the score, then even two people aiming to attack them should have a pretty solid impact on them unless they are multiple tech tiers ahead of them.
@skoub3466
3 ай бұрын
Question how would you suggest to train to play mutiplayer civ?
@nonevahed5559
2 ай бұрын
17:30 I... don't understand the issue with teaming up on the leader? that's a fully accepted part of most free-for-all strategy games, people are supposed to gang up on leaders.
@devononeseven
Ай бұрын
May be salty
@georgreichel
3 ай бұрын
very good summary
@MetDaan2912
3 ай бұрын
Just a quick question: how would you defend your empire if someone else has way more science and better units in the early game?
@txoumin707
Ай бұрын
in general defense is very strong in civ 6. fortify is an instant +3 that gets doubled up. the following turn to a max of +6 support between units also increase combat strength. being behind a river crossing reduces by 3 the power of the crossing unit. being on a hill is +3 being on a forest is +3 with the ideal position its already a +15 differential of combat strength in your favor, factor in the support bonus, and the fact of staying fortified in your borders if you don't get os means you get extra regen. you can usually hold the ai with barely a couple archer and horseman or swords till you get better stuff.
@havefaith4382
2 ай бұрын
how do you force skip turns on console whats the equivalent to shift enter on console?
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