*JUMP IN ON THE CONVERSATION! Do you like or hate playing to click tracks on stage or in church? I didn't hold back on my own thoughts on the matter* 😏
@blakecurtis7809
5 жыл бұрын
I would never see me using a click track live. A few things to add, I play extreme metal and grindcore primarily. 200+ BPM, blast beats, double bass, technical playing at blistering speed. I love jazz, funk , hip hop, big band, rasta, jungle, industrial etc.... BEATS. If I am in a project where I am playing beats, not going wild at blistering speeds start to finish, I would consider using a click track. Example: I love Ska. And if I had the chance to play in a ska band I totally would. And I could see myself using a click live. Might not need one yet some of those Ska bands have over 10 Musicians on stage. For me that is a lot of potential disasters of people getting off time. Everyone spread out on the stage, no proper monitoring for all, some less experienced musicians etc. Drummer gots to keep everyone in check. Yet it could kill the vibe or sound, impact etc of having a perfect click going on in the drummer. Is it robotic drumming? Soul less drumming? Hard to say. Some of my favorite bands and musicians do not use a click at all. They just have it locked in and know what THEY WANT. How they want the music to project to the audience, listener and themselves. You being a drummer in a church band, I imagine there are many elements to a live performance, as you mentioned a bit. That is a lot of cogs in the gears to work together well. But they got BEATDOWN BROWN backing everyone up. WIN. Sorry for the long post, I am drinking coffee and working on laptop. Thanks, peace, love, Death Metal!
@stephenholton782
5 жыл бұрын
Hate them!! Just give me a bass player with feel and get the hell out of the way. Live click tracks are a C block to a live groove. Drummers don't just play in time, we are time........your videos rock, i've been drumming for 40+ years and my 14yr old son is juat starting out. I'ml so grateful that he has a resource in your channel that beats the crap out of playing along to an over dubbed cassette tape and reading modern drummer. You're straght up way of breaking things down is a blessing. Thank you!!
@jantorsteinklaussen6158
5 жыл бұрын
I play in a big band and a marching band. In the big band I do both. We have a show where we do party music, pop, rock, soul, funk grooves.n feel that it's important to keep the time and groove locked in. Also I try to make the click my friend and kind of play around it and to make it groove with it. Now, I'm the only one hearing the click in my IEM's, so the rest of the band has to listen to the drums. I've got a lot cred from the others in the band on good tempo and steady groove and it feels nice to controll 20 people that way. We also have the audience dancing so good and steady time is important. in other situations I don't use click. I've tried to use a click in consert situations with my marching band, but that doesn't work. but then again we have a conductor. Out in the street we play show music wih swing, disco, samba etc grooves and the tunes have different tempos. I have a list of songs that we with the tempo on my snare, but I don't have anywhere to put a metronome, so in this case I have to sing a part of the song to myself to get the tempo right. Also we have baton twirlers in front of the band, so for their sake it needs to be right as well.
@bhaveshsolanki6485
5 жыл бұрын
Great advise/ conversation regarding playing with a click! I started playing in a pop punk covers band this year, but I think the tempos are all over the place not just from me but also from our guitarists sometimes! Have you ever used a click in band rehearsals? If so what is the best way to go about this? Click and headphones? I think it would really improve my band me included!
@terrenceredmond4377
5 жыл бұрын
I've played in church's with and without. I like it for the accountability. But people who are really practicing and giving an honest effort before the worship encounter, it's not needed. I like how engaged you have to be w/o. It's like having a conversation with friends. It's all feel.
@mikejames-drummerreginacan1386
5 жыл бұрын
I use a Tama RW 200 Metronome onstage with volume off...I watch the light.....starts song off correctly then hardly look at it.
@glennracoma7481
5 жыл бұрын
But do you actually maintain that temp perfectly? I'm sure there's variations, but subtle. So what's the use of it.
@mikejames-drummerreginacan1386
5 жыл бұрын
It ensures you count the song is counted in at the correct temp....that stops the phrase..."I think that tune was a little fast "..lol....the tempo is what the original recording was played at....no guess work.
@Skooh2000
5 жыл бұрын
As a sound engineer I have experienced some positive and negative situations where click tracks have been utilized. One experience with was with an artist who used a hand clap that played thru the PA as a “click”. It elevated the funk of the show when the band was cued to drop out while the clap kept the time until the band was cued back in. Also a Latin band once used a clave programmed beat loop the same way. I think if a ‘click’ is needed for sync reasons, an effort should be made to use a clap or shaker percussion loop instead. Maybe an arpeggiated chord progression loop that can be used instead of a boring click sounding click that’s only in the drummers ear. Sent out for all to hear sense it’s everyone in the bands job to keep time.
@Clodhopping
2 жыл бұрын
I like the idea of a natural percussive sound - clap or shaker etc - but really dislike the digital click. On live gigs, for me, I prefer the flow of the drummer - clicks induce a bit of panic somehow.
@jbentley70
3 жыл бұрын
Very well explained!! The human element is what makes live music so great!!
@johnschweiger6486
5 жыл бұрын
Couldn’t agree more. I’m old school as well!. Having an internal tempo, or being a “human metronome” is what a drummer’s supposed to be. At times the drummer will need to move with the other musicians on stage. Great video Rob!
@MiUnited
5 жыл бұрын
I started using click on stage and even rehearsals couple years ago and here is why. Playing on time has always been my problem and as a hired musician I want to make sure the tempo is right and always the same. Playing without a click didn’t teach me to play in time. It had an opposite effect, I got used to speed up and slow down. Now I consider playing to a click as a practice and yes it feels safe knowing that the tempo is right
@Joshholbrook2024
4 жыл бұрын
Use clicks during practice and studio and live if they make me. Can’t stand to use one during worship. It’s not worship to me anymore.
@Joshholbrook2024
4 жыл бұрын
I’m going to give an update. After going back and listening to the service on video, I’m changing my attitude about it. It sounded great.
@high-poweredwellness1172
5 жыл бұрын
I played without one for years, and hated it when I had to start when I started playing at a bigger church. It made my finished product so much more polished and I'm a better drummer for it. So now if there isn't one, I'm still light years ahead of where I used to be. No matter how long you've played, it's still natural to speed up as the song gets louder and builds. I still hate hearing it but I think it's worth it.
@mrrominemr
Жыл бұрын
If the song sounds just like it Did on the album save the money And listen to the Album. If the loves live shows. Halestorm for example
@vihro
5 жыл бұрын
First of all - every musician thinks he can play drums! Every single one of them. This being true everyone is trying to tell the drummer what and how to play. It takes time to earn their trust so that they stop messing with you. Drummer is the one others blame for everything. But I have no time to fool around though. You either respect people for what they are and do or you don't. Second - everyone has different feel about time. A lot of the other musicians never even learned to play using click so that their time is all over the place. Combine both and you'll see how much of a problem playing without a click might be. Click is my best friend! It makes my life simple. And leave no arguments in my opponents minds against my timing. Lesson learned the hard way - I always play with a click. I have a list with all the tempos and it takes a few seconds to set the exact tempo in my Tama Rhythm Watch.
@gmoney1592
5 жыл бұрын
This is a good topic . There is no right or wrong answer . I think timing is one of the most important things about being a drummer . I practice with a metronome. To develop timing and a inner clock. A hate playing live with a click track. I think it takes away from our ability to improv. And it personally distracts me sometimes. Thanks for this discussion Rob you are the man!!!
@blakecurtis7809
5 жыл бұрын
Yeah I am with ya. It's also a matter of preference: would you prefer a GOOD drummer with GREAT natural timing or a GREAT click track drummer that plays like a robot? Pretty deep yo. 22 years of drumming has made me confident in my skills and inner clock, as you mentioned. Cheers man.
@tubular167
5 жыл бұрын
@@blakecurtis7809 inner clock beats robotic click track drumming.. hands down
@rontoriussmith6047
5 жыл бұрын
I don't like clicktracks but I get why they are used but it takes away from the feel of the songs
@rontoriussmith6047
5 жыл бұрын
The way I see it is that it takes the percussionist's job but makes it feel robotic
@NoelMay
5 жыл бұрын
Everyone has their own click track, ........ it's called a heart
@rjsal246
5 жыл бұрын
Noel May beat
@TupDigital
3 жыл бұрын
True- yet this isn't helpful for drumming, because heartbeat varies by activity...thus a more physically involved part would inadvertantly increase your tempo; avoiding thus is the whole point of a click. 👍
@NoelMay
3 жыл бұрын
@@TupDigital I was referring not to heart beat but more to heart and soul, feeling the emotion of the music 😍
@TupDigital
3 жыл бұрын
@@NoelMay haha right on then! I didn't mean to overly serious your statement, was just the thoughts ot provoked in me!
@7319Drummer
5 жыл бұрын
I can’t imagine what Bonham would sound like playing to a click.
@AngusMac1987
5 жыл бұрын
He's the First Drummer I saw Live. 13 years old at the Old Atlanta Civic Center. One might would ask if Mom and Dad knew I went? Lol
@funkdrummer
5 жыл бұрын
@@AngusMac1987 There's actually a great video called "HOW WOULD BONHAM SOUND TODAY? (Quantized)" by Rick Beato that talks about a somewhat related topic. Worth a watch.
@AngusMac1987
5 жыл бұрын
@@funkdrummer Thanks I'll check it out.
@brookiestorer5231
3 жыл бұрын
I never tried to line up a click to Led Zeppelin...
@stangodsey1168
5 жыл бұрын
I just groove dont need either
@DavidKemp
5 жыл бұрын
If there a sequencer, or quantized loops in the song, it’s going to be sloppy without a click for the drummer. A good drummer can still push and pull the tempo, even with a click. (They just need to resolve the tempo back to the original. Cymbals are good for covering that shortened measure; if you sped up.) Also, you can anticipate a tempo change and write a tempo map for the click. So, Rob your points aren’t valid in a lot of different music types. In my experience, drummers usually say they don’t like click tracks because they can’t play along with them.
@radiokaos6266
5 жыл бұрын
Hey Rob great drum channel! I've played to clicks for years due to having backing tracks in some of the bands. It's an interesting question, sometimes you run into band where you have another player who constantly complains about the tempo but they themselves can't even play to a metronome, I'm still surprised how many musicians of other instruments today still do not dedicate a portion of their practice regiment to developing this skill. Drummers will always take the blame for tempo problems in any band, sometimes rightfully so and sometimes not. If you play with good solid musicians it makes our job a whole lot easier, but that is not always the case.
@BANJMO
2 жыл бұрын
Love this topic, i think it depends alot on the style, you are on a blues gig, or jazz or New Orleans feel type of gig, i would say no...but for modern pop stuff? I think its better, because lets face it, a lot of that type of music was recorded on the grid, and its important to stay true to the style of music that you are performing. But at the end of the day, you have to be good at both, with or without.
@DavesKustoms
5 жыл бұрын
I don't like it live, I get distracted.
@Kervan21
5 жыл бұрын
I'm with you Rob. I'm an OG where all the bands I came up to (Dave Matthews Band being a big influence on my playing and loving music) and hard rock/metal bands like Tool and Metallica, it didn't seem to me like they were playing to a click. I think there's something unique and special to a live performance where there is a unique relationship between the musicians, and then musicians to the audience. I don't even like hearing tracks that have some kind of music playing that someone on stage isn't actively creating. My church is using clicks and tracks, and I'm having to get used to them. I get the rationale. But I also feel like I am losing the relational aspect to the performance and my connection to the other musicians when playing to the click. It doesn't feel organic to me. I never have understood the idea that the performance has to be perfect, or exactly like a recording. If I want to hear a recording, I'll listen to the recording. Live, I want to see what each of the musicians bring to the table. And as a Christian, I believe that we are supposed to be playing to our best and with excellence - but that doesn't mean perfection. That's a big difference for me. Strive for the best, but God doesn't expect us to be perfect, even in our musicianship. He wants to connect with us, and that's a relationship, not something that is programmed. So I definitely share your sentiment on them. I can learn to work with them, but it's not my ideal. My new vision for whenever I form my own band is that we'll buck the trend and not use clicks or music tracks at all in our performance. Practice? Yes! Recording? Absolutely! But live? Nope.
@tubular167
5 жыл бұрын
This is one of the most important videos you have posted..100 percent agree with everything you just said..click track equal dehumaniser.. metronome when practicing..but not always.the clock needs to operate without aids as well..brilliant video..did Mozart or Beethoven orchestra use a click track...nuff said 😁😁
@JS45678
5 жыл бұрын
I didn’t know Mozart and Beethoven were drummers??? 🤔
@tubular167
5 жыл бұрын
@@JS45678 they were not drummers.but the orchestra did not have any click track
@art5
5 жыл бұрын
Must be able to play to a click/metronome if its there/required? Yes. Must be able to hold down the groove and carry on if its not there? Yes. All musicians should learn to have good internal meter.
@RobBeatdownBrown
5 жыл бұрын
Yup
@willsgotrythm42
5 жыл бұрын
I'm with you Rob, I understand and will use one if necessary but I like the flow of the natural feel. I feel as very experienced drummer that I have pretty darn good time anyway!!! In case people dont really know what it sounds like or feels like there is a video on here with a comparison of Steven Adler and Matt Sorum from Guns and Roses. Matt Sorum being the more "polished" drummer. You can really hear and feel the difference.
@Ricochetmex
5 жыл бұрын
I honestly like it, but it needs to be very well rehearsed, otherwise it kills the vibe. But when all the musicians can play to a click track effortlessly it makes everything feels super solid and it doest bother me, most of the time I don’t even notice it. And I think that is because rehearsals are on small rooms and on stage is a very different scenario, everyone is far from each other, most of the time as a drummer you are waay on the back, and if the monitoring is not on point you cannot hear well to your bandmates, so without a click track everything can feel very disconnected.
@RobBeatdownBrown
5 жыл бұрын
Valid point at the end there
@chrispriaulx2566
5 жыл бұрын
Hi Rob coincidence you have raised this question, have just watched Tony Coleman (BB King) talking about the same thing as he says drumming is NOT about beats BPM its about FPM (feel).Your job as a drummer in a live situation is to move the people. The only click he ever heard was a gun being cocked if you weren't doing your Job right.. All you drummers out there do yourself a favor and go and look up the youtube clip of him on Drumeo on his views on this subject. Love your work Rob
@jettaylor1286
5 жыл бұрын
Agree with this recommendation 100%. Been playing over 50 years and I listen to the band, not a click.
@jedidrummerjake
5 жыл бұрын
In my church choir, I love it. Also if I'm in a group where the keyboard player uses a sequencer.
@terrylynn7103
2 жыл бұрын
Time is supposed to float sometimes.
@MrDaymee
5 жыл бұрын
Hi Rob, Keys player and music director here. Thanks for bringing up a really interesting topic. I totally agree with your comments on click tracks. What I’ve discovered in my little experience is that the decision sometimes boils down to circumstances you cannot change. Those that sticks out the most is the quality of the band/choir, the size of the occasion and even the acoustics of the hall/venue. Overall, I tend to gravitate towards it for the reasons of: Discipline & Background Dynamics. So for example I don’t just use a clicktrack for the sake of it. There will most definitely be other sounds layered with it to bring in the effect/feel/dynamic required for that song. If I had the numbers to replace those elements in person, I’d definitely prefer humans to a machine but I think there’s a loss on both sides if you don’t have the human replacements and also do without the backing track. I’m not sure if I’ve taken the discourse from click track to backing track now but this is how I’m seeing it from a musician point of view.
@chasthompson7390
5 жыл бұрын
great for beginner drummers and general practicing but if you NEED and can't play without a metronome on stage there is a problem
@jaredm2988
5 жыл бұрын
I really like playing to a click track live. I do it in both groups I play with. It keeps all changes crisp and tight, odd meters included.
@zucalignacio
5 жыл бұрын
MASTER 🙌🙌🙌 I am always concerded about mantaining the exact tempo through all the song...you are absolutely true...nobody cares if we play +/- 3 or 4 bpms out of time....very good comparison between time and heart beat....
@saltysaltine
5 жыл бұрын
I don’t mind clicks right up to the point I wanna “hit the gas”.... then I get bummed out. But I see both sides. Solution, just be great at playing with and without a click.
@Peaceful_Days
Жыл бұрын
Ideally you want to play without a click track and backing tracks. But sometimes you don't have enough people in the band to play everything, so you need backing tracks and to use a looper which doesn't work well without a click track.
@DolkkarToyznstuff
5 жыл бұрын
I hated it at first, but as I got more comfortable using it, I actually love it now. However, as you said, I love the human element that comes from playing without one. I've actually played with bands live that didn't allow a click track because they said, they didn't allow the music to breathe. As far as a metronome goes, I have always enjoyed playing along with one.
@oscaracosta2697
4 жыл бұрын
Imaging Guns n Roses '92 using click tracks........ not as cool huh?....... but imaging being a cover band playing November Rain... you're not gonna have 8 instruments live are ya? less money for everyone.
@DrumSmithRich
3 ай бұрын
I’ve found playing at home I can keep time relatively easy but once playing with others that aren’t as concerned with tempo I’ve noticed I’m constantly having to adjust my playing to bring everyone back to the original tempo. I’ve started using a click during rehearsal to help everyone (especially myself) identify which parts want to speed up or slow down. Just being aware of what spots I need to watch out for or even what kinds of parts make me want to speed up or slow down, helps me keep the tempo steady during a live show without a click. More than that, I’m figuring out what kind of stuff I need to spend some more time on with a click. Thanks for your thoughts Rob. You’ve been a huge help and influence in my drum journey. Thank you for all you do!
@DaGretschguy
5 жыл бұрын
I play to a click and tracks live a lot, and love aspects of it, such as there is no question as to whether the song is too fast or too slow, and is a necessity as we sync to video. I play around the click, by playing behind, right on it, and ahead of the click depending on what part of a song we're in. It can be a huge challenge if there's a push and pull of time with the various band mates, but fortunately for me, the players I work with have great time. It hasn't always been this way and trying to get people to play in time with you can be like herding cats! It has made my ability to be "liquid" with the time and not be so rigid, and/or panic if the time slips away for some reason. Of course I prefer to not play live with it, but it's a necessary tool in some cases and has sharpened my ability to have more solid and fluid time.
@gerryjamesedwards1227
5 жыл бұрын
Did you see Rick Beato's video where he puts John Bonham through Beat Detective and utterly kills the feels? He shows how some true classic recordings had tempos that swung, and pushed and pulled. You can't 'hear' it, as such, but you definitely feel it.
@RobBeatdownBrown
5 жыл бұрын
That video was depressing, man. Just left me hoping that this whole thing is cyclical and that we’ll eventually get back to letting musicians be musicians. Most pop records these days are made by producers. Same three morons “writing” hits for everybody.
@gerryjamesedwards1227
5 жыл бұрын
@@RobBeatdownBrown I totally agree. In my more optimistic moments it feels like more, and younger, people are getting into making real music, or at least getting educated about what real music is and why the Human element is so essential. You're doing your part on the education side, and more power to you!
@nickfili9409
5 жыл бұрын
I play with a click and/or backing track/loop all the time on my worship gig, and always in the studio when tracking, and almost always when practicing. HOWEVER, I play a lot of jazz, and that's a NO CLICK ZONE! Time has to be able to breathe. On my rock gig, I have asked the leader if he would consider going to an in-ear monitoring system and using a click, but no go. The nice part of not having it is that if the guitarist starts the tune off too slow or too fast, I can rectify it easily.
@sallychappus4880
4 жыл бұрын
I've been using tracks for about 12 yrs....very used to it live and stops any arguments about tempos considering going back to playing with my own clock....
@mrrominemr
Жыл бұрын
If every performance is the same It takes a magic out because There's nothing memorable about the performance. Bands who love to play live music Are better and more creative Because they are trying to make magic Every night. Some times it works some times it doesn't. Hailstorm for example. If the absolute best performance A band could give is a 10. Every Halestorm album Was an 8, in concert is a 12. Halestorm every concert is different Every concert has its own magical moments My magical moment The song I Miss the Misery starts on the album with 6 sec rock screem. In concert it was a mind lasting 22 seconds.
@andreasbreitwieser1449
5 жыл бұрын
really good question. Without a click listening and reacting to my buddies (mainly guitar plys) we normally speed up while a song and during the concert....... plyng with the click needs more concentration to the time and less freedom for fooling and joking around, gives a little bit more seriousness to the whole thing. It begins to get relaxed and (a lot of) more fun if everybody in the band starts to really FEEL the leadership of the time and stops to fight or struggle. If this moment appears its getting great! And - most positive - after playing now for 5 YEARS every gig with click my timing REALLY got A LOT better and my playing has got so much more disciplined now, nice development ............
@fredlittle8127
5 жыл бұрын
Rob, I'm right there with you. I'm a ROG! However, since I am still playing, at times I am forced to play with the click. i.e. studio, Church, etc. Unfortunately we have a boat load of musicians that only know how to interact with a click, not other musicians. Back in the day, playing longer or shorter versions of a song was common. If it was going well, milk it. If not, cut it and go on. :) I understand that using backing tracks allows for reduced personnel. But the result isn't really live music. I would far rather play and hear minimal acoustic arrangements with live musicians than all the overproduced surround sound. Also, I sing (while playing drums) and remember the day not so long ago that all lyrics were memorized. Now too reliant on the iPad. However, at my age maybe this is the only hope now. :)
@artcorvolet
5 жыл бұрын
I did a top 40 country band back in 96, singer made all his own sequences. We played to a click, I didn't mind. the band was killing. If you'd like to check it out BeatDown...I could post a link.
@forestcreator6865
3 жыл бұрын
If it’s pop music or electronic music, it’s pretty ludicrous not to use it. But with rock music, your not playing rock music, your playing pop music with distortion. Even heavy bands it’s so obvious they’re using a click track, so I put those bands in my Justin Bieber playlist!
@THESLOWDEATHHOOKS
5 жыл бұрын
nice video
@johnryan3374
5 жыл бұрын
It all depends on the song you're playing; some songs need it, other's don't. Personally, I don't prefer playing to a click track, because I'm more focused on the click than enjoying the song being played. Whenever possible, I play without one! Having said that, some songs need them, because there are just too many parts going on at the same time. I've played songs to backing tracks that sound great, and were a big hit with the audience...
@BeauJustin
5 жыл бұрын
I can't stand click tracks either. However, I will say that certain songs just miss if they're too fast or too slow. Back in my heathen days, one of my favorite songs was Man in the Box by Alice in Chains. I have that song so internalized that I can barely listen to it if its off tempo. But it has such an off kilter timing that, live, it's almost never played at the right tempo. I mean it's a grunge metal song with almost the same BPM as Every Breath You Take by the Police. I think I read somewhere that Jerry Cantrell gets super frustrated if the drummer rushes it, and its one of the few songs they click track, the first few bars.
@nickbeesley6801
5 жыл бұрын
Hey Rob. Apart from the fact that at some stage (ho ho) it is just going to be what's necessary to get the job done, I think the most important thing you highlighted was the fact that nobody in the audience gives a shit about tempo (within reason) and by extension, reminds us to ask ourselves exactly who is it that we're playing our music for, and indeed why. One hopes we all answer that it is to entertain and uplift others (and ourselves), and not a masturbatory ego-fest where the fact that the 9th 16th of the third bar was fractionally late/early thus rendering the bass player's life entirely ruined forever and a crime never to be forgiven. "Time is the responsibility of every musician in the band." - quote taken from page 1 of the teaching notes I received from the legendary Bob Armstrong.
@glennracoma7481
5 жыл бұрын
Most people don't start playing drums in studios but more so in live situations be loose jam sessions or on gigs. And to strap a click on a beginner drummer has the potential to do more harm than good - meaning they become too reliant on clicks than in live situations where, most cases if not all, don't use clicks. I will always remember a statement by the great Omar Hakim regarding time...it needs to be established "internally" vs. externally. In other words it needs to be like an internal clock that's felt more than heard. I agree with you that they do have there rightful places (studio work, personal practice, rudiments etc.) but not in live situations where the human aspects are driven by feel/mood of musicians as well as how an audience can influence the excitement musicians feed off of. Yep, I use a click but only in environments mention above and not live playing. I once played with a group that were addicted to clicks just for sake of bringing up an argument with drummers that they were 2 - 3 bpm slow or fast! Although I was on it I chose not to continue. At that point, I excused myself out the exit door...lol. My take. Thanks for bringing up a topic of many opinions.
@ryanspeed4671
5 жыл бұрын
I played in my church 20 plus years ago & needless to say things are greatly different now. I recently returned to drumming two years ago & it's been fun. I'm not in favor of a click, it takes away from the authenticity & realness of the sound. Mistakes, flaws and all is a part of performing. Trying to obtain perfection with the aid of any kind of click or whatever isn't really a true authentic sound. This is just my view & opinion. I respect those that uses a click or any other device. It's your prerogative. 😊
@walkingdude87
5 жыл бұрын
I like them to practice and hear a new rhythm , however, I do not like when playing . First, it actually messes me up. If I hear it then my mind and body aren't one...which leads me to secondly, music is groove and feel for me. I like improv members and as humans don't always stay consistent .the drums and bass are the metronome. If there's chemistry between those two then all will work out. As originally a guitarist it makes jamming and soloing more fun. Music should flow..a famous quote, " the angle of the dangle is inversely purportional to the heat of the beat"
@woodypernell416
Жыл бұрын
The problem I run into with using a click track on stage is that I freelance a lot. Different bands, different tunes, some tunes the same but they approach them at different tempos. Most of the time a guitar player or a vocalist will want to set the tempo so I basically try to fall in as close as possible to where they want the time to be. I thought about using a Tama Rhythm Watch and just use the tap in feature for where they want the tempo but mostly I listen to who counts the tune off and zero in on that count the best I can. It can be frustrating sometimes, no doubt. I also play with bands who don't use any particular set list or pick songs off of 4 or 5 different set lists at random, makes searching for a bpm very tuff especially when the show is moving along at a fast clip or someone from the audience shouts out a request and we bust into the tune quickly. I wouldn't mind using a click but most of the time it's a lot easier using the old internal clock. Any ideas, tips or comments would be greatly appreciated!
@ajm.1138
5 жыл бұрын
I’m the main drummer in my church and we use click tracks and metronomes pretty often and I’m with in the case that it’s annoying. I’ve also played without them in other live situations. I don’t really have an opinion about them I’m like you, I can play with one or without one. I’ll say that it can stunt a musicians growth and become a crutch for them. I’ve witnessed the drummer that can stay with a metronome but once it’s gone it sounds like they got the father of 3 on the first row that can’t even spell “drums” to come up and play. They do get in the way because if the flow changes then we are stuck in the world of beep, beep, beep and we can’t go with what we feel. I’m a laid back type of drummer so if I go to a gig and they say hey man we use a click then I’ll shrug my shoulders and be like, “ok.” If they don’t have a click I’ll still shrug my shoulders and be like, “ok” 😂
@nickpov3y
5 жыл бұрын
I wholeheartedly agree for exactly the same reasons. I played in a djent band and not only was trying to sort it all out in practice a nightmare (we didn't have money for anyone to have ears apart from me) but it completely just sucks you out of the room. Yes, there were gigs where songs were ridiculously fast, but we learned from that and adjusted. Especially for that type of music people think its necessary. It's not if your tight, and people would comment on how tight we were without it. I know you like tesseract, if you ever go see them live you'll see they all are on click tracks and guess what, the music may be executed perfectly but their stage presence sucks. It's so odd
@TheDigitalMD
5 жыл бұрын
I am in total agreement with you Ron Brown. Hate click tracks but it's sometimes necessary. Certainly takes away from freedom and much of today's performances are way too orchestrated and sequenced. It's like robots on stage miming.
@duddust
5 жыл бұрын
Slipknot is a nine piece metal band with all types of pyro and shit and they don’t use a click
@RobBeatdownBrown
5 жыл бұрын
YUP 🤘🏽
@zacdrake
5 жыл бұрын
For me, it depends on the other musicians in the band. If they have good time, then I don't want the click. On the other hand, if they don't, then it helps keep everybody honest. It's too fast!!! It's too slow!! Fact is: it's exactly the same as last time!!! Not enough sleep or too much coffee... getting old sucks, LOL
@ckr430
5 жыл бұрын
Great topic... I’ve played in situations that used backing tracks because 1 consistency there was never an issue with the tempo. and 2 the track was playing parts that couldn’t be covered by the players on stage. I found that from performance to performance how the tempo may have seemed faster or slower. Or one of the other members would question is that the right tempo? Low and behold the machine is not going to deviate from the time and you can confidently know it’s not you. I presently work with a band that has a lead singer (who doesn’t play an instrument) this group doesn’t use a click. We don’t use a set list either, the singer calls out the next song just before the one we’re playing is ending.. This transition is to be instant, no real break between songs to think about the tempo. So it’s always a guess as to where the tempo is going to be for the next song. I may think it’s just a bit slower than the song we’re presently playing but the singer may think it’s a lot slower than what I think. It does get frustrating because trying to guess. I’ve tried to get a click involved but the singer says he doesn’t want to locked into that. One example, I programmed a simple percussion loop to use on a song. We rehearsed with it set the tempo. Which I knew wasn’t going to be right but I put it were he said he wanted it. All good right. Well that night the dance floor is packed the energy is up and he calls the “song”. I set the loop hit start and the tempo isn’t even close to were he thought it was going to be. He turns and says in a panic “that’s not right it’s to slow “ it was were we agreed to set it earlier though. He argued saying that the machine played the wrong tempo. All I could say is no the loop is not at fault it’s still at 127bpm. I just said your human I’m human. Playing with a click or track which ever, is good because of consistency it takes the pressure off because of the human factor. Everyone has to have solid time in a band if your not going to use a time reference. Because I’m not using one at the moment I have to be able to go with the flow, we’ve agreed that the tempo is going to change possibly from night to night depending on how the vibe is. The person singing has to feel comfortable they’re the one that most everyone is paying attention to. So i watch them to see if there giving any signals to speed it up or slow it down. It’s not the most comfortable thing but it’s what is working for us.
@djb510
5 жыл бұрын
Never in my life played with a click. With good ears, who needs them! Thanks bra for your great videos! I'm old school too!
@geoffmasondrums
5 жыл бұрын
I liked using a click track live when it was necessary to play with backing tracks; if there are no backing tracks a click is just another thing to set up so I don't use it. Also, if other players rush/drag while the drummer stays on click it doesn't feel good to the audience.
@davidolbum3484
5 жыл бұрын
The only time that I've used a click is during recording. I would not want to use one live because I'm a big believer in on-stage communication between players. A song can ebb and flow a bit and still be great. Great for practicing though.
@keiththehawk6512
5 жыл бұрын
I agree with Mr.brown I am in projects that use both clicks live and others don’t . For the bands with backing tracks it’s obvious I have to . The others have a human element and I just try to keep it reigned in .
@alessandro2933
5 жыл бұрын
I use the clicks on the stage for every songs. Android app "Metronome Beats Pro" with an external amps and inear headphones.
@blakenunndrums
5 жыл бұрын
Practicing to a metronome to develop "relative perfect time" is a great skill to hone. When playing in worship, with all different skill levels, sometimes a click is also crucial in order that other band members can stay on time. Especially when the pocket drops out from behind a choir/lead instrument. I personally hated working with clicks at first, and I took it as a personal "slight" against my ability to keep the band and flow going, after burying the metronome. After rehearsing many times with individuals that have poor time, I see the benefit! We use P-16s and in-ears, and every band member is listening to the click. So after awhile, I realised the positive aspects of using the click to keep those who are "time challenged" on course. Lol Worship is a special kind of "difficult", it's simple, but has to be done perfect to sound right and lead the congregation. When playing gigs that have a lot of give and take, call and response, flow, rushing and dragging, etc., I feel the click can ruin the feel of certain players and the general "conversation". I will say, after playing week after week with different skill sets and relative perfect times (we have a rotation at our church, so no 1 band is ever the same), I can see the benefit! However, that doesn't mean it can't still be "annoying" or a skill that doesn't need special attention to develop. I don't use it much for my own personal benefit any longer, or when playing tunes I know well. We all know that really good players, who play with the click often, make it so the click "disappears" into the background. Great topic, and distinguishing between practicing for personal relative perfect time vs. playing live on a gig with a click track!
@geraldjacobs6710
5 жыл бұрын
I think a click track on stage is fine if you are part of a complex show and need to stay in time with elements that you can't otherwise see or hear.
@meshuggah434
5 жыл бұрын
I want to start. I don’t know how to go about it. Where do I need to start? What am I looking for? How do you use it? Are they used with ear buds/headphones? Fill me in please. Which one is the best to buy?
@tristanblerf8356
5 жыл бұрын
What in tarnation is a click OR a stage?
@brookiestorer5231
3 жыл бұрын
Most people lose or gain time on the 4th beat of the measure in 4/4/ or the last beat in any time signature...if noone in the band cares about the time or the feel the drummer is gonna have a long nite/tough day...every musician should be able to bury the click or play reasonably steady without one. When I sit in for a nite because the band can't keep a drummer it's over the rest of the bands perception of the drummers all had bad time...in fact, the rest of the band is off on the feel and the time graph. I embrace the click and also the freedom without one but in any case you the drummer have to be able to hang and that's just the start of it.
@mikesdrumshop2887
5 жыл бұрын
I like them because they keep me in time and I hate them because it shows how badly I get off of time
@Emmemus
5 жыл бұрын
I personally think that click tracks are really convenient for specific types of genres live. Examples would be subgenres of metal where the music gotta sit really tight, also genres where you would implement some type of electronic sounds to the mix which wouldn't sound complete without those specific sounds live. Otherwise, the click tracks will just make the band sound soulless and the overall tightness and chemistry between the band members would just disappear.
@terrylynn7103
2 жыл бұрын
I love your take on this subject. I feel exactly the same way. I love your videos.
@Rijo31000
5 жыл бұрын
My cover band is just as inexpierenced as I am and can not follow. A click track live will be a train wreck in 1 minute with us 😱😂🙏
@shuterobin
4 жыл бұрын
So I'm on the same page as you buddy but our manager has told our band we now need to play to one live, the other members love it but I'm really upset I Gota do it, some help and advice plz
@jordanparrish6302
5 жыл бұрын
In a church setting I like to have the click going with everyone because timing becomes a factor I don't really have to worry about. As for like jazz groups or less formal settings, I'd ditch the click and let the band control itself how it feels
@HBuk
5 жыл бұрын
Very interesting topic Rob! One that has been playing on my mind recently. I play to a click live and I think I put it down to not trusting my ability to not speed up / slow down beyond acceptable margins (whatever that is) in a song. We did a demo a while back and I didn’t play to click, it’s a full on song that builds to the end and I sped up by almost 10 bpm from start to finish. It’s haunted me somewhat and I don’t want to deviate that much again which I think is partly why I always play with a click now. I perhaps don’t trust myself. I probably need to practice more and feel more confident. Back in the day I never played live to a click. Keep up the good work Rob!
@malcspring448
5 жыл бұрын
I have no preference either way. I can play to clicks and sequences through my IEM's and do exactly that in my band on certain songs. I am pretty new to the concept, but am doing ok. It also gives me quite a good feeling knowing I can do it. My bandmates sometimes start heading off at a fast pace, but I have to concentrate and stay locked to the click and the other guys have to reign it in as I am the only one with the click. They have to lock onto me.
@RoeShamBoe
5 жыл бұрын
keep your click low and only worry about it if you actually start to hear it. i rarely actually hear my click except for the count-off. once i'm in, i'm on top of the beat and my drums absolutely drown the click out.... if i start to hear it, i know i'm drifting. voice prompts in ableton must drive you insane lol
@funkdrummer
5 жыл бұрын
Exactly, never use it as a crutch. Always burry the click, that's the correct way to use it, imo.
@drummerwarrior1
5 жыл бұрын
I use the Tempo app so I don’t have to “pull a tempo out of the air” with some bands I play with. It takes away the debate as to whether the song is at the right tempo. I haven’t done any live playing to a click. I have played to backing tracks which included a simple drum pattern which I played on top of. I always practice to a metronome. If someone offered me a click track gig I would have to shed it to get it right but that’s homework.
@ivanoliver9532
3 жыл бұрын
Metallica definitively doesn't use click track.
@peterhermanvideo
5 жыл бұрын
Could not agree more. First the singer(s) should be comfortable with the tempo of any song. And guess what comfortability changes from one performance to another. Second performers (soloists) should have some freedom to move with whatever emotions they feel. Third any song should have the agreed tempo to start out with. Fourth variations in tempo are ok as long as musically it makes sense. Fifth agree audience could not care less. One day we started out “Take it easy” at 138 bpm. The singer went crazy and pushed it up to 145, the roof came of the audience was screaming and yelling for an encore. But than when practicing a click track could work. Question for Mr Cool Dude Rob: click for everybody or just the drummer. If only the drummer I always feel like a policeman everybody hates 😂.
@RobBeatdownBrown
5 жыл бұрын
A click in just the drummer’s ear can help train the other musicians to listen and lock in. But it can also be super frustrating when a few people start rushing without listening and you’re forced to decide what to follow. You have the click in your ear, but the stage is a couple bpms ahead of you.
@aggelossamaras7849
5 жыл бұрын
when you have 2ond and 3rd voices on playback o keys ....you have to use metro
@tommyp7547
5 жыл бұрын
Sometimes it’s not whether you like it or hate it, it’s do you want the gig, or not.
@sonorpaisteguy
5 жыл бұрын
I played to a click track in rehearsal and live performance from 1995 to 2013. I didn't mind it but in retrospect would have preferred not to use it. My band had a lot of sequenced synths and samples going off. It was necessary to have a click track in my ear while drumming. The key for me was to have the click track just barely loud enough to hear in my ear. But I often yearned for some actual free for all jam out sessions where we could improvise live and bounce the tempo's up and down and just have fun. I grew up in the mid 70's and 80's and enjoyed being the primary timekeeper as the drummer for bands. Rob Brown is right with what he speaks about in this video. There used to be a time when the drummer just had to know what a 120 bpm tempo was or 90bpm or whatever. Rock music these days sounds too mechanical, quantized out in the studio and just sterile. That's my opinion on playing with a click track live, etc...
@RobBeatdownBrown
5 жыл бұрын
STERILE, man. Seriously. I listen to modern pop these days and feel nothing whatsoever. Sonically perfect. Completely soulless. Every tune on any billboard chart is completely forgettable after a few weeks. Nobody’s writing Roxanne anymore.
@sonorpaisteguy
5 жыл бұрын
@@RobBeatdownBrown Thanks for all the great videos you put up on your channel. I enjoy listening and learning from them. :)
@lpeterson2336
2 жыл бұрын
This!! You should have it in your earpiece as a musician but I should never hear it as listener. I have come to hate it with a passion because I lived with someone that used it as an audible instrument...it becomes torture to the ear and makes the music unpalatable.
@pauljb07
5 жыл бұрын
As a volunteer drummer at a church with volunteer worship team members, I love click tracks.
@RobBeatdownBrown
5 жыл бұрын
I’ll bet. Haha
@MatthewParsonsDrumsAndAudio
5 жыл бұрын
I’m kind of with you here. There are situations where a click is absolutely necessary to keeping the whole production together, where as other situations where a click isn’t needed and just let the music breathe. A lot of churches are going towards the click track and backing track route, and it can be useful to help musicians learn music and know where they’re at in the song. But it shouldn’t be used as a crutch.
@RobBeatdownBrown
5 жыл бұрын
I have a whole other set of grievances with backing tracks in church, man 🙄
@thebouncinghearts
5 жыл бұрын
Always a divisive topic, but an interesting one. There are drummers who have been 'born' into the click era, they don't have any perception of life without it, these days it is a given that a drummer is able to play with a click in both live and studio situations. However I am a very, very O.G. when I first recorded (early 80s) we didn't even use a click in the studio....imagine!!!! and as the 80s progressed studio technology advanced(?) so rapidly, and to such an extent, that NOTHING was recorded WITHOUT a click...If a producer was to suggest recording without a click theses days he would probably be sectioned.....Of course it is now part of the job, and all good drummers should be able to work with a click, but the click/grid IMO has become a security blanket, it is also coming very close to erasing the human dynamic completely from recorded music (and live music to an extent)....listen to any of the 60s hits, Motown, The Beatles etc or the 70s Bowie, Free, Zeppelin, even the poppier stuff, ABBA for example, the musicianship isn't always 'excellent' by any means, but it has something which is not present these days, it has FEEL, the human dynamic......I'm with Rob here, 100%
@RobBeatdownBrown
5 жыл бұрын
One of the best examples is Van Halen’s show from New Haven, which you can find on KZitem. Four guys having INSANE amounts of fun just being a band. The 5150 video from that show could cure depression
@scottwest8806
2 жыл бұрын
Hate them..for live performances..
@beandrums1stickmanroland547
2 жыл бұрын
What board and direct box do you use in the video ?
@mdrumjack
5 жыл бұрын
When you have to play along with additional voices triggered from a computer or keyboard (eg industrial rock, electro pop, etc), the click track is a must.
@RobBeatdownBrown
5 жыл бұрын
It’s definitely necessary in certain genres. I can’t hate on backing tracks in every situation. My favourite band on the planet is Depeche Mode. Saw them twice last year and the shows were incredible. And they’re running click and all KINDS of tracks up there. The other side to it, of course, is that Never Let Me Down will sound pretty much the same every single night. But it’s Depeche Mode, so who cares!
@golfandvinyl
5 жыл бұрын
I have no beef with click tracks. I get it. But I’ve said it before, the search for perfection has kinda wrecked music. I personally prefer the natural feel of musicians feelin it out up there.
@RobBeatdownBrown
5 жыл бұрын
Me too, man. All DAY 💯
@Jimbotheknight
5 жыл бұрын
I mean. I find the click gives me confidence especially after being ripped to shreds by my band director for the tempo wavering
@funkdrummer
5 жыл бұрын
It's everyone's responsibility in the band to keep good time. If you are talking about marching band, that's a totally different animal when it comes to "who has the time in any given moment"
@nickfili9409
5 жыл бұрын
P.S.; You did a video where you played along with a live bpm app, which app were you using?
@RobBeatdownBrown
5 жыл бұрын
LiveBPM
@jimbarcelona1078
5 жыл бұрын
I still havent got the slightest idea what a click track is but doesnt sound like i would give a crap about it....especially if you dont
@FacsTwo
5 жыл бұрын
It's a track, like a song, but with the metronome going on. For each song you got the tempo the way you want it (like 4th, 8th) You then got your setlist in a metronome
@lonewolfmgtow7187
Жыл бұрын
I love using click tracks ❤
@areaboy777
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you for sharing another lesson and you're correct about the audience, they rarely know what the musicians are thinking while they are performing. The only ones that would notice are the musicians in the audience listening.
@funkdrummer
5 жыл бұрын
And those musician audience members are likely a VERY small % of the crowd. Often times, I have to remind myself to stop being so critical and just enjoy.
@gildevanalves3813
5 жыл бұрын
thank yuo mam valeu!!!!
@drumteacher43
5 жыл бұрын
I use both click track and metronome live for almost all the gigs I do! I use the click to play super steady time but only I hear it! The click tracks are used when there is a backing track of any kind! I have been doing this for a long time and have grown used to it. So I have no problem playing with click/metronome live. Keeps Everything tight!
@AtTheSourceStudios
5 жыл бұрын
LOVE click track! I hate guessing the tempo and risk being too fast or slow or changing even slightly during a performance. At the end of the day IF we happen to have too much adrenaline and botch the performance by ruining the tempo it's our fault entirely and WILL throw the rest of the musicians off because of it. It is just soooo much more professional IMO to use a click. The band plays better as well when everyone can feel the same tempo.
@forestcreator6865
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah click track, gtfoh!
@chv307
5 жыл бұрын
I never really played to a click track, but I know its necessary nowadays.
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