Another great video. Lots of history, not just about Clintonville, but the whole system. Thanks again for your effort in sharing your knowledge with us.
@BeHistoric
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks very much for watching and for the support, Charlie! We are learning quite a bit as we do our research on each of these topics - and so these videos are a good way to share what we're learning.
@thomasmackowiak
2 жыл бұрын
This was an interesting video on why the Clintonville Substation existed and how it fit into the Aurora, Elgin & Chicago Railroad system. You did a lot of research for this episode!
@BeHistoric
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks very much! We very much enjoyed researching the history of the Clintonville station - and sorting out exactly how it worked. And thank you again for the continued support!
@stevetalkstoomuch
2 ай бұрын
I read in one article that the original power line used glass insulators from Fred Locke in Victor NY. Most failed and caused fires in the first year, and all the insulators were changed to larger porcelain insulators also by Fred Locke. This happened on other early power lines as well. They really didn't know how to design or make safe quality insulators until the late 1910s. I have found pieces of both types of insulators. It was significantly upgraded in subsequent years.
@BeHistoric
2 ай бұрын
Thanks for the thoughtful comment and observation! That's very interesting. As we mentioned, there was indeed evidence of a fire in the Clintonville station, on the south end of the building, extending from the basement up into the wire tower. We have scoured area newspapers for any mention of this fire without success - so it's not clear when it might have occured as yet. Being on the south side of the building suggests that it may have come in from the entrance power line from the south. Thanks again - and thanks for watching!
@joestupar827
3 ай бұрын
I just watched this series today and I have to say you did an amazing job of putting this together. There were a couple of comments I wanted to add: 1) While not impossible, the idea of tanks or a chiller on the roof seems kind of unlikely for a substation like this. My suspicion is that what was up there was really a steel structure to support the high voltage lines. You notice that even today a high voltage power line runs over the building rather than across the tracks. I suspect that Public Service put that new line in while the substation was still operating and had to have a way to get the lines into the existing building. 2) This kind of construction where everything is inside the building and there are brick channels for high voltage lines was fairly common for early substations like this. I think you have done an amazing job of piecing together what went where. If you are up for a bit of a road trip and interested you might want to visit East Troy, Wisconsin. Their museum is based out of a former substation, and some of the wiring and equipment inside is still in place. More modern designs had the transformer yards outside and just the conversion equipment inside the building. 3) The rotary converter in barn 6 at IRM came from the CA&E, if I remember correctly it was from Maywood. The museum acquired a 'substation kit' from Edison after the CA&E quit with the intention of using it to power the new site at Union, but never ended up using it. Along with it was the large transformer outside barn 6, an oil circuit breaker set out in the material yard, and a number of cables and other components stored in a boxcar. 4) Most interurban substations had the positive DC feeders coming out of the building with 2-3 parallel cables going to the overhead structure. Being 3rd rail it's quite likely the DC feeders and returns came out of the basement on the track side. In that photo of 415 in front of the substation it looks like some wires may be attached to the 3rd rail near one of the wheels. The other kind of odd thing in that photo is that it looks like one of the 3 phase inputs on the tower has two wires going across to what appears to be a single transformer. In addition to feeding 600 out some substations would sometimes also feed out 2400v (or other similar voltages) to support signal systems and other auxiliary loads along the railway. I'm not sure if this substation was retrofitted to handle that at some point? 5) A lot of early electric railroads were constructed before any sort of grid existed and had to generate their own electricity. The idea of transmitting high voltage electricity and stepping it down to 600 every couple of miles avoided the voltage drop of pure DC and allowed them to expand much farther. At the time it was believed 25 cycle power was the most efficient for this purpose as the speed of a rotary converter is related to the frequency of the AC, so a 25 cycle converter spins slower than a 60 cycle converter. A traditional light bulb on 25 cycle power will have a noticeable flicker, since the voltage is at 0 25 times a second vs 60. As commercial power expanded in the US, it tended to be at 60 cycles, leaving many interurbans with a lot of infrastructure that was incompatible. Insull owned both the CA&E and Public Service, and so brokered the deal for them to not just purchase their electricity, but turn over maintenance of the substations and distribution infrastructure. The Public Service company had motivation to simplify the infrastructure and replace 25 cycle equipment with 60 to fit with their distribution grid, but this did not always happen overnight. In some cases, you might have parallel 25 and 60 cycle transmission lines as substations were upgraded. Some of the upgraded stations had rotary converters replaced with rectifiers during upgrades. The Public Service Company handled this work for the Rapid Transit and North Shore Line as well so they had a lot of equipment available that they could move around to the various substations to handle demand.
@joestupar827
3 ай бұрын
This photo of the Prince Crossing substation (i0.wp.com/thetrolleydodger.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/aaf307a.jpg) shows a steel structure on the roof and a reconfiguration to take power from a new line over the building rather than the original across the tracks.
@BeHistoric
3 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching and for the interesting observations and additional information. This is most useful to us! Thanks too for the kind words and encouragement! We will attempt to address a few of your points. The chiller idea came from the contemporary reports of putting cooling systems into the substations. Most seem to have opted for large fans/vents in the ceiling - but we know too that chillers were popular for a period of time in the early 1910s/1920s - and this may have been an experiment that ultimately proved unsuccessful. The steel beams installed on the roof suggested carrying a substantial weight, also suggestive of something heavy, such as a chiller. Your idea, of a steel frame or small tower is also very possible - although the metalwork suggests something heavier. They seemed to have experimented with technologies at single locations, such as the first automated substation at Warrenville, before deploying to other locations. Again, we are not married to the idea of a chiller, but more evidence points to that scenario than any other at present. 2) Thanks for the kind words regarding our piecing together the building's infrastructure. We are confident of our interpretations, based upon all of the contemporary descriptions that we found. Many people have thought these brick structures to be battery compartments - but that makes very little sense, especially as you realize that they were mostly covered tunnels, with periodic openings along the tunnel. Further, there are no contemporary references to more than one or two lead acid batteries in these facilities from the 1900s to 1920s. However, we did find much discussion regarding busbar compartments. We will have to visit the substation in East Troy, Wisconsin, as that indeed sounds very interesting. 3) You are absolutely correct regarding the rotary converter in the barn at the Fox River Trolley Museum. We were fortunate enough to have been given a tour of that facility and were able to take a number of photographs. That specific rotary converter, however, was from the early 1920s, based on a stamped date on the cover. I remember thinking at the time that this was not one of the early rotary converters, which would have been substantially larger (and probably less efficient). Perhaps it was a later replacement or backup unit. 4) Very interesting comment regarding the power feed coming out of the front of the station (trackside). We very much agree with you, as it makes the most sense - and railroad civil engineers were eminently practical and thrifty. However, at Clintonville, these walls were covered in wood paneling - and so we could not thoroughly examine any possible openings trackside. However, we have been able to examine the same wall at Prince Crossing - which was unconvered. We found a few openings that may very well have been the trackside power feed. Excellent observation! 5) Thanks very much for this additional information. That helps to fill in many of the blanks for us! Thanks for watching and for the very thoughtful comments and observations! Very much appreciate it!
@joestupar827
2 ай бұрын
If you are interested in this technology and history, you might want to look at the book "New York's Forgotten Substations, the power behind the subway" by Christopher Payne. Some of the substations in New York were constructed around the same time as this one, and used similar designs and technologies. The book is mostly modern photos of abandoned substations (with equipment still in place), but also includes many drawings and historical details about how they worked. Some of these photos show things like the brick hutches and bus channels and might help give some more clues about the purpose of things.
@BeHistoric
2 ай бұрын
Thanks very much for watching this video series and for the tip regarding Christopher Payne's book. We will have to check that out. It took a lot of digging, but we did find quite a bit of period and contemporary information regarding the many structures evident at the Clintonville station. Recently, we have found even more evidence of these structures at the Prince Crossing station in West Chicago as well. But we will definitely look into Mr Payne's book - thanks again for that suggestion!
@boxryde382
3 жыл бұрын
Terrific job on a great video. The Elgin & Belvedere also had a substation in Gilberts. The building is still there as far as I know.
@WesternOhioInterurbanHistory
3 жыл бұрын
thank you, address or general location?
@BeHistoric
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks very much for watching and for the kind words! Thanks also about the observation regarding the Gilberts substation on the Elgin-Belvidere line. That was one of three originally, no?
@boxryde382
3 жыл бұрын
I’m not sure. It’s been a long time since I read the “Dairy Route” book, but I want to say also maybe Union and Garden Prairie had substations. The Gilberts building design gives it away after watching your video. maps.apple.com/?ll=42.106744,-88.377038&q=Marked%20Location&_ext=EiYpFDTS6BUNRUAxK7ky1YcYVsA5kgn4RDwORUBBA7UVc8EXVsBQAw%3D%3D&t=h
@WesternOhioInterurbanHistory
3 жыл бұрын
@@boxryde382 I assumed that was the building, after I saw this comment I went searching on Google Maps. Ibhad a feeling it was this one due to the location next to the right-of-way.
@WesternOhioInterurbanHistory
3 жыл бұрын
@@boxryde382 Union had a substation, you can see a model of it at IRM.
@jerryhund5630
3 жыл бұрын
Very nicely done. A lot of research put into this production. Do you think we can get a similar video of the Prince Crossing sub station #5?
@BeHistoric
3 жыл бұрын
Hi Jerry, thank your for watching and for the encouraging comments. We'll add your suggestion to our list. :-) It' would certainly be a worthwhile project. However, we have a few other projects lined up right now. We will also need to contact the current owners, the Wheaton Academy, to see whether we can have access to the building., so as to do it justice.
@WesternOhioInterurbanHistory
3 жыл бұрын
interesting note: The Bellwood substation still exists
@BeHistoric
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for that observation!
@WesternOhioInterurbanHistory
3 жыл бұрын
I have has trouble getting onto the Julie Johnson historical collection, it doesn't load. I think it either shut down or was deleted. Are you expriencing this problem?
@BeHistoric
3 жыл бұрын
Yes, we've noticed that as well. It seems to have been down for two weeks or more. Hoping that it comes back online soon as it's such a valuable resource of information.
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