What I like about Mcnamara is that unlike most people who come out of office he constantly went back and reviewed and criticised his decisions rather than simply moving on. Hindsight is a hell of a thing and many people on here are probably too full of hubris to realise that the decisions that were made were not exactly simple and clear.
@davideaton6733
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I too like how he's comfortable living on a world he knows he's burned down.
@hossp2365
3 жыл бұрын
@@davideaton6733 He is clearly not comfortable.
@suryarrrr
3 жыл бұрын
Very few people have the humility to admit their mistakes. Respect for Mcnamara, despite all the things that happened. The world still keeps repeating the same mistakes
@feddomeijerwiersma6955
3 жыл бұрын
@@davideaton6733 He is clearly uncomfortable, and he FREELY admits mistakes, something literally no other politician has ever done.
@yahiryellow1
Жыл бұрын
@@davideaton6733 what?
@coreyadams1982
8 жыл бұрын
I watched this on a deployment. THis is an amazing documentary.
@feddomeijerwiersma6955
3 жыл бұрын
Truly amazing.
@cynthiahamil9801
9 жыл бұрын
One of the BEST documentary films that I've EVER seen! This ROCKS!!! Everyone should see this one!
@cynthiahamil9801
9 жыл бұрын
If people would watch this video and really listen to what he is saying, we would never fight another war again. Listen to what he says about WWIII.
@NewLondonNewLondon
9 жыл бұрын
Cynthia Hamil If you mean WWII, that was a defensive war. I don't believe that wars should be fought. As in US involvement in Iraq - huge mistake. Only fought for corporate enrichment.
@GetToDaChoppa-k5r
9 жыл бұрын
Cynthia Hamil Actually war makes a lot of money. These kind of people don't give a fuck about WW3. In fact I am sure they want it.
@cynthiahamil9801
8 жыл бұрын
Oh yeah... WWIII will definitely be on the Menu, probably soon. With Agenda 21 in place - and their goal to depopulate the planet, this is going to be a very rough war. Can we stop it? Possibly. We could definitely prolong peace... But they really enjoy their ability to continue the false flag hoaxes that allow them to push through draconian legislation that moves us closer to war.
@wildmercuryfilms
3 жыл бұрын
@@cynthiahamil9801 It’s so funny: “Depopulate The Planet.” 5 years after your comment, it came true: Not by war, but by China creating a virus, then unleashing it into the world.
@davidsmith-hb1jx
2 жыл бұрын
For me..... This was the most powerful six minutes of film I've ever viewed. I knew ww2 history forward and back and I was still deeply moved by this. I've watched it multiple times.
@Pdids01
14 жыл бұрын
This is one of the most frightening and powerful scenes I've ever witnessed in any film - documentary or otherwise. It's too bad it doesn't continue to where McNamara talks about the % of people killed and the dropping of the nuclear bombs being disproportionate (in the minds of some people) to the objectives we were trying to achieve.
@GoldeneyePwner
12 жыл бұрын
As evidence provided on this discussion board, Mr. McNamara is right about one thing. Rationality will not save us.
@RadicalAwesomeness
10 жыл бұрын
This is by far the best documentary I have ever seen. It's almost like a Greek tragedy, or more likely like some old medieval Germanic fable. It's watching Dr. Faustus seeking redemption from his pact with the devil but finding none.
@sirscribs1150
9 жыл бұрын
Exactly dude. I heard him compared to the flying Dutchman, because he sought redemption he could never have.
@neilrafferty2097
3 жыл бұрын
You put that so eloquently .
@Nominay
3 жыл бұрын
I guess that's why it's horrifying and chilling.
@legolas199
13 жыл бұрын
incredibly and brutally honest. RIP Robert McNamara.
@neilrafferty2097
3 жыл бұрын
This is an amazing piece of work .
@saxondog2001
13 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this clip. Yes, it's easy to be critical in retrospect. People who knew McNamara said he was so brainy he was scary.
@mercury11043
14 жыл бұрын
an absolutely brilliant movie about a complex subject. no judgements here and that is to morris' and ultimately mcnamara's credit.
@davidsmith-hb1jx
2 жыл бұрын
Notice at around 3:10 when talking about the dead B-29 crew McNamara almost burst into tears? 1945 was long past but he still felt it.
@jhardycarroll
3 жыл бұрын
Let's not forget that firebombing Japan was just a "warm-up" act for LeMay; between 1950-53 he dropped more ordnance on North Korea than was used in both theaters of WW2. Some 90% of their buildings were burnt to the ground.
@100cjkennedy
12 жыл бұрын
Best doc ever.
@DirtyAstronaut
12 жыл бұрын
I stand corrected. (first time you'll hear someone say that on KZitem)
@Roneified
13 жыл бұрын
To those that think McNamara is chiefly responsible for Vietnam, read up on Capt. Herrick during the gulf of tonkin and what he reported to McNamara.To say that McNamara worked for the elite and didn't give a hoot for the lower class americans, read up on the World Bank organization, which he headed after his pentagon tenure.THIS man unlike some that we know today, is willing to admit his faults and his mistakes in his handling of the war. Have we done that with Iraq? or is it still right?
@darthmix
11 жыл бұрын
the music is so good
@kleenbeats
2 жыл бұрын
One of the greatest movies ever made!
@purposedivine2493
9 жыл бұрын
Good Documentary !!!
@MiXueLe
13 жыл бұрын
@Londonhibs88 Oh, absolutely. That's what I mean, really. The documentary is the safeguard, even if he waffles a bit at times. I have a great respect for McNamara, particularly as he is trying to teach us lessons he feels are essential to humanity.
@MartiniEnvenenado
12 жыл бұрын
i love The Fog of War
@amattchronism
9 жыл бұрын
everyone's a little angel in the comments section but i bet if any one of you were in the war room we would be calling you the devil too
@derdriui
13 жыл бұрын
@legolas199 ... RIP victims of Robert McNamara.
@mirazusta2002
3 жыл бұрын
I admire your loyalty to this man, and, moreover, your understanding with regard to the atrocities and disaster derived from McNamara's terrible decisions as Secretary of Defence during the Vietnam War, which makes for his failed and deadly political legacy. If I may say; Unbefuckinglievable!!!
@71soulfly
13 жыл бұрын
War is about attrition, how many enemy can you kill and how quickly, war is unlikely to ever end simply bc we're human and intelligent enough to kill very well. imagine a world where countries had no boundaries like it used to have when ppl werent here, animals went where they liked and no-one/animal felt aggrieved by it, how come we havent adopted that world without boundaries, it would be a nicer world without territory lines.
@ladyofnewroses
12 жыл бұрын
In hell, efficiency experts will be trying to figure out how to raise the temperature of the flames.
@MiXueLe
13 жыл бұрын
@seovideo24 Yes, but when he slips that way the documentary highlights the inconsistency. I believe that's why, as he says 'I don't want to accept full responsibility', the film keeps showing his signature on all those war documents.
@gard751
14 жыл бұрын
I know. Thanks.
@FalconKPD
14 жыл бұрын
@gard751 Well put. Besides, high explosives were ineffective on the Japanese factories from those heights, so incendiaries were the only option, collateral damage was unavoidable.
@Wadzymodo
14 жыл бұрын
"If it be possible, so much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men." ~Romans, 12:18
@derdriui
13 жыл бұрын
'And when you die, all anyone will say is, "Better that he had never lived at all."'
@nancybl
14 жыл бұрын
This is the clip! Watch his mouth right at the start. He doesn't say 100,000. He says 80,000. I MUST know the story behind this dub. I think it is hands-down one of the most powerful moments in this film. Morris could have covered that slip with an image but he didn't. Did he have McNamara say 100,000 over and over until it fit? I find it to be significant that McN. just slipped and forgot 20,000. Imagine a such a slip. Oops, 80,000, 100,000, no matter. Yes, 20,000 people matter.
@WaffleShortage
Жыл бұрын
80,000 may have been one of the other 3 times or however many more they firebombed tokyo following Op Meetinghouse. that first night was only the first of several times that tokyo was set ablaze.
@SamSullyV
Жыл бұрын
McNamara's point, which seems beyond most people to get, is not that the firebombing was right or wrong. It's that the US as a culture and as a study of our history never really grappled with it. We never decided what was necessary in war. We collectively just decided not to think about it. I dont think knows himself. It's in the freaking title of the film, the Fog of War. And he worries, rightly so, that this could have implications if the US is in a struggle like WWII again. This isnt about the actions of Imperial Japan which of course committed many war crimes. But thats irrelevant to what he is really getting at. Do the ends justify the means? If you CAN do something in war does that mean you SHOULD? Is it justified to let innocent people die to reduce the number of soldiers killed? Conversely is it okay to kill more of your own soldiers to lower the rate of civilian death? We are humans and even in a necessary war, as WWII obviously was it, doesnt mean that everything done in the war was necessary. And all these years later we still cant talk about it honestly
@GuitarraMiguel
9 жыл бұрын
Slaughterhouse-Five or the Children's Crusade Kurt Vonnegut, 1969
@manusmleon
14 жыл бұрын
Eichmann anyone? Part of "a system"
@v-22
12 жыл бұрын
"Necessary evil" is just a catch-phrase to justify evil.
@BDpartnercoJM
8 жыл бұрын
He looks exactly like Walter White would as an old man.
@zsedcftglkjh
8 жыл бұрын
Interesting historical fact: even after the atom bombs (plural) were dropped, the Japanese high command still wanted to fight on. Only the intervention of the Emperor, Hirohito, stopped the war from continuing.
@sranney1
Жыл бұрын
We were attacked by Japan
@QwidgyboMan
11 жыл бұрын
And there's a difference between looking at your own war crimes honestly, and shifting the subject to the other mob.
@The90089
13 жыл бұрын
@gard751 My dad would have agreed with you. He was asssigned to be one of the first to land if we did invade nad the H-Bomb not been dropped. He was also on mainland after the war and no one really understood state-side or maybe even world wide that Japan had been fire bombed even more so than what people were shocked with in Europe. People knew about Dresden. Not what went on in Japan. No idea if he would have agreed with McNamara, but he would have supported the candor.
@steveoranges1960
Жыл бұрын
People don't know about Dresden today. It's not taught in schools, discussed on mainstream television shows, movies, etc
@ViperRob
11 жыл бұрын
Wonder if we see Rumsfield do this in 20yrs saying 'we were wrong' and take responsibility for HIS war crimes
@kalevraa
15 жыл бұрын
i bet satan is doing some very serious bob ripping right now...
@gard751
13 жыл бұрын
@derdriui You misunderstand the issue. Though bombing civilians is wrong, nobody considers what the alternative would have been. Namely, the cost of allied lives had the war continued. The casualty estimates of a landing on the Japanese mainland were in the hundreds of thousands. But I suppose Japanese civilian lives are worth more than Allied soldiers lives. How does one force a belligerent into surrender when his code (Bushido) essentially forbids it?
@kalevraa
15 жыл бұрын
how, people often quote this saying, but the actually only mean it when they are the one doing it. if your lover cuts YOUR balls off, or if your enemy incinerates YOUR cities, suddenly you are the victim being treated unfairly. after all, pearl harbor was "a day that will live in infamy"; i don't think americans were saying "oh well, all is fair in love and war". were they?
@jasonmaves9365
12 жыл бұрын
Phillip Glass is amazing but metamorphus i think was better by a hair
@fartboxer22
8 жыл бұрын
wow....
@danboone5321
11 жыл бұрын
Well, that is "officially" the reason that we cut them off. I'm not talking about what should or shouldn't have been done during any other conflict. I'm talking about the immediate events leading up to the attack on pearl harbor. Isn't that what the last few sentences in your post were about?
@fleury150
14 жыл бұрын
i watched this whole movie once and i was wondering did he not talk about the liberty or did i miss it?
@gard751
13 жыл бұрын
@derdriui For fighting the Japanese? The Japanese who orchestrated the Bataan Death March? The Japanese who starved and executed thousands of Allied POWs? Those Japanese? You're goddam right! I RESPECT the fuck out of him.
@blitzk782
12 жыл бұрын
@Blueshirts07 oh, so that makes it ok then.
@harvey20c
8 жыл бұрын
this doc showed how unfair it was for McNamara to be saddled with the blame of Vietnam. It was Johnson's baby all the way. Mac was doing his job and taking orders from his boss.
@danprice5466
8 жыл бұрын
Isn't this is Eichmann said? "I was only following orders!"
@californiaslastgasp6847
2 жыл бұрын
Vietnam would have happened no matter the President. The question is how bad would it have been.
@nancybl
13 жыл бұрын
@thewritingwriterof89 Exactly!
@brians2808
2 жыл бұрын
The scene where they just keep rattling off the destroyed Japanese cities and it goes on and on. Shakes me when I see this every time.
@purecorkboi
11 жыл бұрын
He's talking about the fact that Japan's cities were near total ruin and that dropping the A-bombs did nothing that conventional weapons didn't already do. More akin to people talking nowadays talking about WMDs when the AK-47, glocks etc have killed more people than nuclear/bio weapons ever could
@nancybl
13 жыл бұрын
@Olafandlafandlaf Thanks for responding! I can't confirm anything. Believe me, I have written to Morris so many times via his website and I've heard nothing. I also haven't seen anything in the published criticism about the film. Help?
@lsdmadman
11 жыл бұрын
why is always rich old men butchering like there's no tomorrow...??
@fleury150
14 жыл бұрын
@28steve13 watch the movie both lemay and mcnamara agree w/ u..
@ghrabi33
12 жыл бұрын
I'll skip 1 for lack of space. Let's get straight to 2: good to see you bothered to check it out. Yes, you do need to point out where in his career he willingly commanded or conducted destruction of civilians objects with none, or very little military necessity. If some of his decisions were in hindsight to mistaken and disproportional it only proves that point of the documentary: that it the midst of the fog of war such decisions are an imprecise art and bound to produce collateral damage.
@legolas199
13 жыл бұрын
@derdriui haha listen hippy, it was a WORLD war, he was acting in the best interest of his country at the time and the interests of saving as many lives as possible during the course of the war.
@Sigliry
9 жыл бұрын
Seriously, this was happening before or after Japan did Nanking Massacre? Does anyone knows?
@Frosmad
9 жыл бұрын
After, the USA was not in the WW2 until 1941, the Nanking massacre happened in 1937
@Sigliry
9 жыл бұрын
Frosmad thanks, that makes sense then
@derdriui
13 жыл бұрын
@gard751 Really? We should RESPECT him? A man who murdered hundreds of thousands of human beings? RESPECT him?
@Olafandlafandlaf
13 жыл бұрын
@nancybl Can you verify if the dub or edit is true?
@gard751
14 жыл бұрын
People here very quick to vilify this man but remember he was there and you arm chair historians weren't . He did this film to serve as a cautionary tale for the rest of us. He admits his errors and his "lessons" are an attempt to educate us. You have to respect that.
@DimiterStanev
11 жыл бұрын
Is he saying 80,000 or 100,000?
@fleury150
13 жыл бұрын
Here is what i dont get. If lemay wanted to blanket a city with fire bombs, why did he need to have the bombers @ 5,000 instead of 22,000. i undertand that the bombs were more accurate, but i dont understand y the accuracy was needed in a blanket fire bombing of a city.
@villaineparnell9871
8 жыл бұрын
I say earth eaters
@MultiUsername45
13 жыл бұрын
@kuinosenmonkey Then you are wrong.
@matiuBlog
11 жыл бұрын
How evil people can be.
@QwidgyboMan
13 жыл бұрын
@gard751 I respect it. Doesn't mean he wasn't a vulgar war criminal who should've been hanged for crimes that some Nazis (who were) would've blushed at.
@GetToDaChoppa-k5r
9 жыл бұрын
Robert McNamara. Former US Secretary of Defense, helped kill approximately 2-3 million, mostly poor Vietnamese, Cambodians and Laotians. Not to mention a sizeable portion of the 58,000 dead US servicemen pressed into that war. Not to mention that equal number of US veterans who committed suicide in the years to follow. McNamara is an Elder Statesman now, walking around freely today.
@6325returntosteam
Жыл бұрын
Again worst human to ever live. It's like for some reason people fond over history when one flaw that's destructive to human life like project 100k people and conscription can be swept under the rug by the people who view them as heroes. It's pretty sad that people defend this guy. Ever heard of gi junkies very sad video of the vets not getting anything. One big stain to earth.
@QwidgyboMan
12 жыл бұрын
No. It's "hanged". Oxford English dictionary my friend.
@danboone5321
11 жыл бұрын
That I don't know, but judging by your post I would guess not. Still not quite sure how that is directly relative to the topic. Sounds like a red herring.
@thewritingwriterof89
14 жыл бұрын
@nancybl HE DOES!!! wtf is that...
@FalconKPD
14 жыл бұрын
@kuinosenmonkey They were so high up that high explosives would simply miss their targets. Incindieries were used because, although they may miss their targets, they would cause fires that would spread to military targets, unfortunately, this had very bad consequences, as many civilians were caught in the crossfire. War is hell, and if they had the chance, the Japanese would've done the same.
@gard751
14 жыл бұрын
@erikinhawaii War criminal how? By serving in WW2 and waging war against Japan. A war that was forced onto the United States by the Japanese themselves? Was he a war criminal by being sucked into Vietnam and eventually sacked because he opposed the president.? Christ, he was the only one in the room who was lucid. He served his country the best way he could. Nothing more.
@Mrmusicvideoetc
11 жыл бұрын
The problem with this revisionist view of history is how many lives Americans had already lost, how dramatically costly, and more difficult, the Pacific theater was than the European front, and how the Japanese's pride simply wouldn't let them give up. Why did the U.S. ultimately go nuclear? Because of Japanese pride, arrogance, and indifference to their own civilians. If the Japanese would have given up after all these so called "fire bombs" that "killed so many" the US would have relented.
@QwidgyboMan
12 жыл бұрын
How exactly does his being there and making the decision absolve him? By that standard Hitler and Stalin, who were also where I was not, and who also happen to be much older than I, are in the better position to judge whether what they did was legal or not. How convenient. To answer your question, yes I know what a war crime is. And so did Mr. McNamara. Which is why he admits in this documentary to committing crimes that constitute war crimes.
@freshlyBakedjay
8 жыл бұрын
this dude need some watteerrrr hardcore lmao
@michaelvoigtlander9721
9 ай бұрын
Please, help me understand how anybody can think of McNamara as a great Secretary of Defense? According to the Vietnamese, the US program resulted in 400,000 deaths caused due to a range of cancers and other ailments, and that approximately 4.8 million Vietnamese people were exposed to Agent Orange according to census data (source wikipedia). If Russia had no nuclear weapons, it would have faced the same as Japan in WW2 or Vietnam or Iraq.
@Nominay
9 ай бұрын
McNamara was only as good as the president he served. That's why he was aces under Kennedy and shit under Johnson.
@Blueshirts07
13 жыл бұрын
@sunragnarok and what the Japanese did to the Chinese, Phillipinos, Koreans, and allied POWs was far worse and they killed millions more people than the US did.
@derdriui
13 жыл бұрын
@michigan007 You realize that there is a difference between soldiers and people? Would you say to the Iraqis, Afghanis and Pakistanis who have had their villages bombed, their people caged and tortured and their children killed by American soldiers that it's okay to firebomb America? After all, invading Vietnam and dropping napalm on its people, as well as agent orange and agent blue that still kill people, that's EXACTLY what "ignoring the rules of humanity" mean.
@ruzz3ii
14 жыл бұрын
...and World War 2 was " a good war."
@fremenchips
11 жыл бұрын
that dichotomy is not quite right as more then 50 years of social and political change separate the two eras, i the 1880's American political cultural was much more isolationist then it was even in the 1930's and there was no effective way for an American protestation as we had neither an international forum or military to intervene. Also as to reason both I think hold true as Roosevelt said "You know I am a juggler, and I never let my right hand know what my left hand does".
@ghrabi33
12 жыл бұрын
Two things: 1- Godwin's law this soon in the game? Wow, I was kind of expecting two or three exchanges before we came to that. 2- If you do know what constitutes a war crime, then you obviously know that in and of itself killing civilians is not a war crime. Answer me this: what exact type of war crime did he commit and by which actions?
@QwidgyboMan
12 жыл бұрын
Much obliged. I apologise for the vulgarity and abuse. That was uncalled for. Just happen to feel strongly about it. And by "us" I was slightly dishonest. I'm actually an Australian, but I feel a certain degree of culpability too given that Australia sent troops to many of these places as well; particularly Vietnam and Korea. Not to mention that we sat by and did nothing for our East Timorese neighbours to the north when they were being massacred Pol Pot style (with American arms and support).
@MultiUsername45
13 жыл бұрын
@kuinosenmonkey You know my grandfather lived through the Japanese invasion of China maybe you should tell him there's no proof. Many of the Chinese do hate Japanese people that is true, but I don't because I do not hold grudges from history. Doing so I think would be ignorant. Maybe Japanese troops didn't use chemical weapons, but your denial as if the nothing happened offends me.
@invisiblebears
12 жыл бұрын
@amfmful Hail Satan, hail the Dark Lord.
@QwidgyboMan
12 жыл бұрын
1.That is not a counter-argument. It's a sheep-faced evasion of an utter refutation of a ridiculously simple-minded point you made. 2.A typical war crime - "The wanton destruction of cities, towns and villages, and any devastation not justified by military, or civilian necessity." Do I really need to point to an example of that throughout his career? Get serious.
@thechloromancer3310
2 жыл бұрын
Would sending US soldiers to the beaches of Tokyo have been more moral and wise than the firebombing of Tokyo? Of course. The answer is clearly yes. The choice to firebomb Tokyo was certainly good for military expedience. It certainly helped to minimize US troops losses. But it also helped to pave the way for the US' increasingly brutal and callous militarism post-WWII. The US could have gone down the path of being a global champion, with a hegemony that would last well beyond 2050. Instead, the US has lost so much good-will from its disastrous militarism from Vietnam onward that the Global South is now shifting away from the US-led West before our very eyes.
@villaineparnell9871
8 жыл бұрын
none and good at politics
@jdavis234
11 жыл бұрын
You clearly don't know much about the Nazi war crimes. Also, there's a difference between defending your country against people who want to destroy it, and invading countries while committing brutal genocide for power and treasure.
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