James, I've been following you and your lovely wife for years. This is the first time making a comment on ANY KZitem video but could not resist. Thanks so much for an awesome and comprehensive video on these two battery systems. I had no problem understanding everything you said, which was a big relief. You should feel very pleased with yourself. Job well done. Thanks again.
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Wow, thank you!
@30AndAWakeUp
3 жыл бұрын
This was really great James. I enjoyed nerding out watching it. I must admit, I am a Volta fanboy but you've definitely knocked it down a few pegs in my mind compared to the Lithionics system. And I agree that the inverter is a beast and I forget all the time! I can't wait to see what you guys do to your Ekko.
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it!
@sharonhughes6741
3 жыл бұрын
Me too!
@lindajoplin8054
3 жыл бұрын
So, excellent video, but let's talk $$$. If upgrading a van from AGM to lithium, why go with Lithionics over, say, Battleborn batteries? 600 ah of Lithionics runs about $9,300. 600 ah of Battle Born runs about $5,400. Do other parts of the system even out the cost? Any thoughts on Battleborn batteries or other options.
@mikesabiking
3 жыл бұрын
Couple things to note about nmc. You can't make a NMC battery run at 12 volts. The cells can't be configured to match a 12v (lead acid voltage range). The best match is 24 volt (7S). That is a big reason Volta is 48 (14s). Second thing. NMC is much more dangerous. If they catch on fire (damage, charging too cold/hot, etc...) it is almost impossible to extinguish the fire. They produce their own oxygen. Water will actually fuel the fire. I've build diy batteries with both chemistries, and will alway opt for lifepo4 in a house or RV/Van.
@stevetag6572
3 жыл бұрын
It would be a cost savings for Lithionics to use NMC cells...but, we would not pass UL and could not install inside like we do on the Revel and the Galleria
@HumbleRoad
3 жыл бұрын
Very thorough and comprehensive explanation. Bravo! Just for the record, I'm a Lithionics fan for all the reasons you stated.
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Wow, thank you! Glad you liked it!
@RollosReviews
3 жыл бұрын
4 hrs of running the AC on Li3 does not sound that great. Definitely seems to limit you in warm weather if you are boon docking overnight or having to leave your pet for 4+ hours (especially if you have a pet that can over heat). 9+ hrs on the Volta in the heat seems much more palatable (again especially with a furry friend). I really want the Nova 20C Li3 but am worried the lithium system will fall short for my pup and I.
@cwheremonster8870
2 жыл бұрын
Great presentation. I too have now experienced both systems. I had the same Travato w/Volta system, and now moved on to Nova 20c (Coachmen). My decision to move on to another rig had little to do with the lithium power system… But I did want to continue the propane free experience. James is 100% on the money with his assessment. After only two months with the Lithionics system, I am convinced it better suits my needs. Thankfully my system came with a 3000 watt inverter. I have found that both systems give me the same ability to have power on demand. However the Lithionics system allows me to re-charge when camping for multiple days much easier. High idle is a deal breaker for me. I like charging when driving through local towns and low idle… or just sitting at a stop light. I’ve never had an issue running the air conditioning for multiple hours with either system. And I’m still able to run the air through the evening when I go to bed. Like I said, both systems are more than adequate. But the Volta has limitations that aren’t as optimal for my uses.
@tomh465
3 жыл бұрын
FYI the Coachman’s “Beyond Li3” Ford Transit B class model uses the Lithionics battery with the Zantrex 3000w inverter/charger, standard option.
@aliciabrowndocken4660
2 жыл бұрын
At 12:21 your slide shows "Usable Capacity" is around 10% of total. I think that you meant to illustrate the Usable Capacity is around 90% of Total Capacity with Reserve Capacity being about 10% of the Total Capacity.
@dankarau2307
2 жыл бұрын
Lithionics now offer 12v, 24v, 48v and higher voltages.
@mvemerson
Жыл бұрын
Just wanted to mention, ...it is absolutely necessary to upgrade. ;-)
@stevetag6572
3 жыл бұрын
Comment directed to Stef: when I asked Melissa to marry me, her response was: I could spend a lifetime with you to explore your mind. You must feel the same way about James....his mind defies physics....it's the size of a football field in there! But, when he speaks, it's always down to earth and he makes everyone feel good about themselves. Steve
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks, Steve! We're especially glad you liked this one.
@HumperMKB
2 жыл бұрын
Is turning on high idle to charge really more annoying than power management all the time ?
@lyfandeth
3 жыл бұрын
Whether an alternator will charge at idle is mainly a choice of which one is selected. There are, for example, some "detroit" alternators that can put out 100A at 1000 shaft rpm, and run forever at 15,000 rpm. A very wide range, compared to others thst need 2000 rpm to put out full power, but will also burn out if run continously at 10,000 rpm. Guess which one costs more? And by changing the size of thd alternator pulley (in proportion to the engine crank pulley) you can change the idle speed of the alternator easily. The drawback is that you don't want to exceed the max rpm at max engine speed. Regardless of the voltage.
@jmw_vn2463
3 жыл бұрын
Excellent presentation. Extremely informative and useful. Thank you !
@waynebersch9150
3 жыл бұрын
40 minutes!!!! Forty? Really? I watched every second of it! Thank you for keeping my attention that long, Professor.
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it!
@steveworsfold4518
3 жыл бұрын
Excellent presentation, James! I agree with your comments and assertions regarding the two systems - I think I prefer the lithionics for the reasons you stated. I too am very excited about the Ekko and the "shift" it represents in the industry. I.e., I can't wait to be driving a Yeti cooler down the road. We have a 2015 Roadtrek Adventurous on the Sprinter chassis - I really like many things about it. However, the total lack of insulation is a ridiculous omission that drives me crazy! That van gets wicked hot in the sun in the summer. One thing I really liked about your video is the way you present the difference between PERCEIVED needs from the battery system, versus ACTUAL needs. As an engineer, I often get caught up TOO much in the specs and data. In reality, I am learning I simply need to utilize the equipment and experience the situation so I can determine if it ACTUALLY provides what I need versus what I THOUGHT I needed. WELL DONE, and can't wait to see your future EKKO videos!
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks, Steve, appreciate the thoughts!
@nbragtop
3 жыл бұрын
Wow, my mind is blown ! I actually understood what you taught me. Congratulations for a job well done. Thank you for preparing such a detailed presentation, it had to be such a chore to do so.
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
You're very welcome!
@CleanPowerAuto
3 жыл бұрын
If you need more than 2kW inverter and a larger battery, an aftermarket installer can swap it with 3kW Xantrex XC Pro, which is almost the same footprint, while also adding a 2nd battery for longer runtime.
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
That inverter/charger is the one I refer to in the video. I'd have to check the cable sizes, but swapping to a 50% more powerful inverter might require a cable upgrade for safety's sake.
@Grumpy_Old_Van_Man
2 жыл бұрын
You tried hard but are still obviously pushing the Lithionics for some reason.
@BarryandKaren
Жыл бұрын
He was very clear as to why the Lithionics system suits him better. For me, the much higher safety of LFP chemistry and the double to triple life cycle longevity advantage of the LFP (Lithionics) over the NMC (Volta) system is key. Everyone has different preferences. He explained the differences very well, IMO.
@gosman949
3 жыл бұрын
One of the most informative videos on Lithium systems I have seen! Thanks so much for the work you did to bring this to us!
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Glad it was helpful!
@Freds_mom
3 жыл бұрын
This was VERY helpful, thank you!
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
So glad!
@HabitualButtonPusher
3 жыл бұрын
This was like watching a clinic. Glad you posted this.
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
I did a dry run for a friend, and he said it was like a seminar. Guess it's got that vibe... Thanks!
@comegowithMEE
3 жыл бұрын
Very good video James! When you and Stephanie get the Ekko and start the mods you have to keep us up to date. I, like you guys, am eyeing an Ekko also for a boondocking rig in the mountains and an all summer trip to alaska as soon as this virus gets out of our way. Again, very good video. You had some info on the Ekko I didn't know. Take care.
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks, Mike! Glad you learned a thing or two... and best of luck on your RV hunt and Alaska adventures!
@kero-oke9300
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you James. This is exactly what we need to know. The senarios are great.
@blakeplissken2314
3 жыл бұрын
I wasn't even interested in Winnebago battery systems but I could not stop watching this video as you made it so interesting while adding a little humor in at times. I didn't zone out like I do with other technical videos. I'm not sure what you do for a living but you would make a wonderful teacher.
@randyneely1898
3 жыл бұрын
When I can’t sleep I just watch this video lol thanks great information.
@MarkVJenkins
3 жыл бұрын
TY James. You make the best videos. I am 52 and starting to think about my post corporate life. Your content is really foundational as I contemplate getting a rig of my own in the future. i also like to bicycle and having a rig to support my bicycle adventures is a top priority. I thought the Revel might be perfect solution but now I have the Ekko to evaluate as well. Keep up the great content and Thank You!
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
The main advantages of the Revel would be the smaller size, ground clearance, and 4WD. But if you're mostly a roadie (like us), the AWD EKKO should get you most anywhere you'd want to go.
@gregghumphries8101
2 жыл бұрын
Hi just watched your recent video and noticed the mod on the window by the table window. Don't remember seeing a video on that cover/screen. Where did you get it ,why is it there and are they on all the windows. We have been waiting for our ekko for 19 months. Hopefully getting in Oct. Thanks you are fun to watch but more work for me in the future. Can't wait to get out to have fun.
@CleanPowerAuto
3 жыл бұрын
Speaking of “automotive grade” NMC battery. It was a disaster for Nissan Leaf program and recently GM issued a recall for their Bolt EV due to NMC battery problems during charging. On the other hand LFP type batteries are used in over 100,000 electric busses worldwide and even Tesla has switched their China factory to LFP batteries due to their unmatched safety and extremely long cycle life.
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Interesting stuff. Our LFP batteries aren't really showing any signs of slowing down after 4 years, so we're on board!
@stuartstuart866
3 жыл бұрын
Wow, a lot of considerations the average consumer wouldn’t even think of. Thanks James
@Dave-gf3kd
3 жыл бұрын
Wow. You put a LOT of work into this, and it's incredibly well done. Thank You!
@jimfranklin9770
3 жыл бұрын
while I don’t RV, this a very good and very informative video. Well done, James.
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it!
@cryptopappy6408
3 жыл бұрын
Oh! And first time I payed attention for 40 minutes in about 5 years. Injuries suck!
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Glad you found it valuable enough to stick with it to the end!
@ravenm.
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you James, excellent presentation!
@hackman88
3 жыл бұрын
19:10 could you change the pulley to a smaller size on the alternator to a smaller one to make it work at regular idle? alternatorparts.com/alternator-pulley-size.html#:~:text=The%20most%20common%20pulleys%20on,boulevard%20or%20on%20the%20highway.
@done.t.732
3 жыл бұрын
Excellent video James! I wish I had you as a physics teacher in high school physics when we studied electricity. First, you made it easier to understand and second you make it fun and not make me go to sleep like I did in high school! Keep up the great work.
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Wow, thanks!
@jamesmartin568
3 жыл бұрын
James you did an excellent job on explaining the differences between the Volta and Lithionics systems using end user, real world scenarios.
@goose-F16
Жыл бұрын
I went back and listened to this video again after having the ekko for awhile.. there is alot of excellent nuggets of info here... I watched the installation of the 20k after this, but thank you.. systems management section solid gold.. see you out there, and on your ekko forums.. I appreciate you all pushing the edge of the envelope..
@jamesbryan4373
3 жыл бұрын
Excellent comparative video, thank you. I can't wait to see your actual use videos on the new EKKO as this is my current "dream" RV.
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
We can't wait either! Except of course, we have to. Because they're not on sale yet! We're hoping to get a loaner to "test camp" with soon.
@michaelyates3424
3 жыл бұрын
As always, great and informative video. Can't wait to see the many videos of you modding you Ekko. You've giving me the courage to extensively mod our '19 70B Era including adding two Lion Energy 105 AH batteries. But I have one critique, you should be wearing your lab coat or at least a high school chemistry teacher costume...
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Lol! That would have been a good add!
@7heRedBaron
3 жыл бұрын
My high school chemistry teacher was bald. The similarities are eerie.
@lyfandeth
3 жыл бұрын
There can be one advantage to a 48 volt alternator. It is much simpler to feed hungry lithium batteries from the 48 volt alternator, than from a 12v alternator which is running incredibly hot, trying to put out 4x the amperage to put out the same power. So if you plan to recharge from the engine instead of a big solar array...a 48v system has some advantage. For a solar charged system, the opposite.
@selimibnalkazahan
Ай бұрын
So, it seems that: One is easy upgradable, les powerful, and more accessible..... The other one is more powerful, not upgradable by user, and kind of less accessible. It sounds to me that Volta is Apple and Lithionics is Android. (People who likes to mess with their stock gadgets and find solace in "improving" them, may like a Lithionics system..... While people that likes a finish product not to be mess with but ready to use in the stocked way that comes from the factory line, well, they may prefer a Volta system).
@UrdaMan3rd
3 жыл бұрын
James, loved this video very informative. We are awaiting delivery of a new Coachman Nova 20C/Li3 with the Litionnics systems. we are cosidering a future upgrade ( not necessarily by ourself rather by a Lithionics certified 3rd party dealer or van builder). But in reading the various literature on Lithionics it appears that their system is more of a plug and paly ( ie pay $$) upgrade. If I am reading the literature correctly if I wanted an upgrade our current 600 AmpH system, I would need a : * 2-Port Paraller Combiner Box used for Expansion * Newer Die Lithionics Battery ( would I have to get a similar 12V 600 AmpH for simplicity sake ???) * Cabling??? Since I would have an existing Xantrex 3000 Freedom XC Invetor can you think of any other possible equipment upgrades. Granted I might not do the upgrade until I am out of warranty and /or have the additional cash once I found a certified tech!! Much regards, PS loved you videos with both Coachment and Lithionics Joe
@shusaien
3 жыл бұрын
You've mentioned in your composting toilet video, that the exhaust fan in your van can suck 900 million cft air per minute. Do you realize what will happen if it sucks at that rate? Its 72630000 lbs of air. Yop will be sucked through that whole.
@dustylaredo
3 жыл бұрын
james is such a dadgum good teacher; i always learn a lot from y’all... -thanks- 🚐💨
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Why thanks! Glad you found it useful. :)
@VarosVapor
2 жыл бұрын
Incredibly informative! This was a brilliant explanation of the 2 systems. Thank you James!
@mtbgo7860
3 жыл бұрын
Love this! The video must have been hard to organize and taken so much time. Really appreciate it!
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
It has to be like 12 pages of talking!
@robertrisk93
3 жыл бұрын
This video is great beyond words. At the beginning, I thought you were pitching for Lithionics, however I must admit that you sounded pretty fair on you detailed (but not complicated) explanations. I would like to point out that at 12:01 a slide appears on screen and it has an error, where it says that the usable capacity is around 10% of the total capacity. You did however make it clear that 10% is the reserve capacity. You might want to add a written correction on your video, since that slide stays on screen for half a minute. I would like to comment (probably beyond your interest in this video), that the Lithionics 630 Amp/hr battery, used to upgrade the capacity in RV's that use it, carries an OUTRAGEOUS price tag of slighty over USD$17,000.00!!!
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
I don't think the option for the second battery is that much when you add it to the EKKO.
@robertrisk93
3 жыл бұрын
@@Thefitrv sure thing, you dont have to buy the 315 Amp/hr battery nor the generator. I beleive you are right about upgrading. It's the way to go. Mike Neundorfer proved it. By the way, I liked knowing about the large parasitic loss of the Volta system.
@dgaston
3 жыл бұрын
40 minute video, ugh, let's see how far I get. 40 minutes later... wow that was a great video. Thinking about doing a build and it sounds like the Lithionics would be my choice!
@saeidk736
2 жыл бұрын
I LEARNT SO MUCH ! I LOVE YOU ! you explained it so well and you know exactly ! i loved that point about the elephant in the room LOL its true thats is all we are really asking lol
@johndoody1492
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks James. As Gary Larson said through one of his Far Side characters, “teacher, my brain is full”. And I agree with your assessment. Cheers
@dr.freddyb.wilson4541
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much for this video! I've watched your videos for many years. Lately I needed information on using the Lithium batteries since one RV I was interested in had a diesel generator but a later version had a 3000 watt inverter system, which I wondered about. I've been wanting an RV for years and finally decided to go with a B+ but could not find anyone to discuss the abilities of a lithium system over a generator. After listening to you I think going with a lithium system should fit my needs! You two keep up the good work!
@vincedoss4230
3 жыл бұрын
You are indeed, the man! This was a great video. Thank you, as always for taking the time to distill complex topics. 🤘🏽AC⚡️DC 🤘🏽
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
I had a whole bunch of AC/DC puns... "For those about to charge, we salute you", that kind of thing, but Stef made me take them out.
@liveworklive5715
3 жыл бұрын
Sooo... Volta = Mac and Lithionics = PC? ;)
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Interesting way to look at it, and not totally inaccurate, either! (I'm a PC guy... in case you hadn't guessed.)
@bobk381
3 жыл бұрын
Excellent comparison. I admit to being a battery and chemistry nerd. I appreciate your insight and experience using both systems.
@craignels
3 жыл бұрын
My 2021 KL National Parks Edition still defaults to inverter on when the coach is powered up.
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Good to know!
@cindygaffney1094
3 жыл бұрын
Super informative! I was a bit reluctant to commit to listening to the entire video but so glad I did. I learned a lot!! Thank you!
@Adiscretefirm
3 жыл бұрын
You certainly have the background and experience for me to be inclined to believe you when say it is easy to DIY improve a Lithionics system, but to be sure you need to actually try it, you know, for science! Besides it'll make great content and you will be able to resell a 2000 watt inverter with only 10 hours at a higher price than one with 1000 duty hours.
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Yes! For the sake of SCIENCE, I must upgrade!
@RoadsofLife
3 жыл бұрын
There seems to be a big hullabaloo about your video and commentary on KZitem and RV forums. The Volta fanatics are crying foul, the Lithionics fanatics are screaming "told ya so". Find it rather disheartening. Some are comparing Travato to Ekko, as they have different battery systems, but are not taking into account total amperage. As I understand it, Travato has more battery power to begin with... the Ekko begins with less. So it isn't much of a fair comparison to say "my Travato batteries last longer, therefore Volta is better". It's like saying my red bucket of oranges is better than your blue bucket since I have more oranges in mine, so obviously red is a better color than blue. As I see it (admittedly as someone with no idea how batteries work, unless it's magic, in which case, I know exactly how they work!), the whole argument is comparing apples to oranges. Yes... both fruit, but obviously apples are better. Or maybe it's oranges are better... or maybe it depends what you need the fruit for and how you eat them. Apples may make a great pie, but oranges have more vitamins. What do you need more? My concerns regarding Volta vs. Lithionics are: 1. Redundancy. What happens if the DC/DC converter fails? Does the system work or is it dead in the water? I suppose you could carry a spare, but I for one would have no idea how to attach it or make it work. Are there similar issues with a Lithionics system... if a part goes bad, does the entire system fail or can you limp by and replace it later? 2. Repair. What if a battery in the enclosed Volta system (which you can't open, touch or possibly breath on!) goes bad? Does the entire system shut down? Now what are you supposed to do? Does the entire van have to go back to the Volta factory? Will a Lithionics system still work if there is an issue with a battery... and could you conceivably just replace it without having to take it to a Lithionics factory? 3. Volta batteries (NMC) should theoretically have a greater energy density over Lithionics batteries (LFP), but LFP batteries should have greater specific power, so would that be advantageous in an RV? Would running an A/C for instance benefit from LFP over NMC? Since Winnebago is now using both systems in different RVs, it would seem, at least on the surface, that there are advantages based on style of travel or build issues or some other hidden requirements I can't think of. So what's the argument? If you like oranges more than apples, how does that affect my tastes or my needs? It doesn't. Gee... this is a long comment! Be seeing you!
@MarkRVillano
3 жыл бұрын
James: I'd be interested in knowing the total weight of all the components in each system. Just looking at the battery and inverter, my guess is that the Volta components outweigh the Lithionics by at least 100 pounds, which is no small change in a Class B RV.
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Neither of them publish weights for the whole system. That's another one of those "you shouldn't care" things, because Winnebago has already worked all that out for you and included those weights when calculating the OCCC.
@larrygee5090
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for your great explanation comparing the two lithium systems. It is the best fair comparison of the two systems. I too like the ability to modify things. Keep releasing your videos.
@NewAgeDIY
3 жыл бұрын
James love the details. Lots of background information. Noticed that solar wasn’t talked about. I guess if your main charging source is off the engine it’s not that important. Question: what ever system you pick would it be a good idea to keep a spare alternator on hand. Depending on your travels it could be hard to find a replacement unit in a emergency situation. What is your opinion.
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Oddly enough, we had an alternator failure in Lance's second alternator once. We don't carry a dedicated spare. But because they are both 12 volt systems, when our alternator failed, I flipped a switch I had installed, and connected the vehicle and second electrical systems. SO since both our alternators are 12v, it's kind of like we do carry a spare!
@raideriam
3 жыл бұрын
So well done! Thank you for distilling some fairly difficult information into easily digestible useful data elements. Though your bias is clear I assume your bottom line is that both systems will serve you.
@richkurtz6053
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this clarification of the difference between the 2 lithium systems. If I read the components pricing correctly, the Lithionics system (other than the heavier DC cables), should be less expensive. It also uses off-the-shelf components. I agree that this should be easier to upgrade.
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
We're looking forward to our next Lithionics system (and the upgrades) in our new EKKO!
@quint57
3 жыл бұрын
This comment may have already been made but in my Volta powered 2021 STO Mode there is now a button under the main, big green button, is a second, smaller button that controls the inverter. You can also set it in the panel to always end one of you so choose. Also, in my experience, when the system is off, it’s off.
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
We didn't have that button. Would have been good to have!
@winstonian88
Жыл бұрын
Not sure why there’s a compatibility advantage when everything in the 48v system is stepped down to 12v anyway.
@johnarnold6847
Жыл бұрын
Depends on what upgrade you might want 3 years down the road. Bigger Inverter? Add battery capacity?
@danleonard3600
3 жыл бұрын
Hands down this is the best explanation I have seen about how lithium battery systems work. I like the fact that you can add battery capacity fairly simply if needed. My question. What’s so bad about generators. They serve they’ve the same purpose as the second alternator without starting up the vehicle and with the quieter ones now probably less bothersome to others than an idling van.
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Generators are loud, require monthly maintenance, and you shouldn't run them for just the 120 seconds it takes to make toast. (among other issues.)
@doug3596
3 жыл бұрын
That's great. If we don't stop at naming the RV, and instead also name our battery systems, our battery will definitely be named James. That's an incredibly clarifying and helpful video to someone sorting through a choice of RV!!
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
I'd be honored to have your battery - either one of these - named after me. :-)
@joanmcerlean7158
3 жыл бұрын
Steph, it is my duty to inform you that it is absolutely necessary for James to upgrade the inverter charger. James, this was a fantastic tutorial. Thanks so much for translating your knowledge and expertise into layman’s terms.
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, Stef!
@grantclarke3937
3 жыл бұрын
Great presentation & battery systems insight!
@sailorcto
3 жыл бұрын
Very informative (and humorous) video, thank you. What about pricing?
@michaelmcconnell7294
3 жыл бұрын
Excellent presentation.
@PaDutchRunner
3 жыл бұрын
On the 12v vs 48v issue, keep in mind that a native 12v lifepo4 system STILL needs a regulator for the voltage which functions in a fashion very similar to the 48v to 12v converter. The end result is that this minimizes the benefit of being native 12v. If you fail to regulate that voltage, a lifepo4 will send 13-14 Volta in some situations to sensitive 12v electronics in the rig, potentially damaging them. Specifically, the control board of the maxxair fan has been documented to fail with those voltages.
@AJourneyOfYourSoul
2 жыл бұрын
I have never seen an issue with this except for the maxxair. This is more of a maxxair issue than battery issue.
@dontworrybehappy5139
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks James! I think you did a fantastic job taking a very complicated subject and explaining things in a very accessible manner. I also really like how you qualified some of your assessments with your personal preferences and discussed how it might differ from others. Great job!
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Glad you found it useful!
@rvboondocker2559
3 жыл бұрын
I was one of the unfortunate people who accidentally had my 525 amp hr Lithionics battery pack run completely empty because of the incorrect programming that I had left it while in storage. That happened one year ago and, fortunately, it runs as good as new anyway, which is nearly 2 1/2 years now! Stephen and his team at Lithionics are truly amazing scientists and engineers! I feel very safe sleeping with this battery pack. Also, in all fairness, we have the Xantrex Freedom 3000 W inverter (absolutely necessary to always upgrade) and it does a pretty good job on sucking energy on standby as well. We just take the responsibility of turning it off planet is not in use and it keeps us from having any problems.
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
We've had great support from Lithionics over the years as well. Glad your battery was able to come "back from the dead". Does that make it a zombie battery?
@rvboondocker2559
3 жыл бұрын
@@Thefitrv More of a resurrection or second coming or maybe reincarnation? I’d say. Thanks!
@cnevle
3 жыл бұрын
Good stuff! Good job on de-mystifying some of this!
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it!
@brianjacobus722
3 жыл бұрын
I can’t wait to save our money and in a year or two buy the Ekko the second I saw it I knew it was the one for us ! I’m jealous as I know you guys will have yours before us lol
@spencerduncan
3 жыл бұрын
James, this episode was about as good as it gets for complete information and comparison on a topic. It was easy to understand, in great depth and detail. And not biased or judgmental on either system while noting all pluses and minuses of these two system. And, yes, it would be nice to have the option to get either system in any Winnebago coach. Keep the info coming. Thank you. DonW.
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks, Don! Glad you liked it. :)
@apollion888
3 жыл бұрын
One of the best videos you've done, great content and fun editing. Enjoy the Ekko! Looking forward to seeing your first video once the new baby arrives
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much!
@lynndelduca4399
3 жыл бұрын
Well done with the info , thank you!!!:🇨🇦🤗
@leetempel6076
3 жыл бұрын
Nice presentation. Did you happen to notice the mistake you made at 12:03? In the written summary of total, usable and reserve capacities, you stated that “usable” capacity was 10% when you meant “reserve” capacity.
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah... I caught that one too late. I said the right thing, at least. If I wanted to change it, I'd have to re-upload the video and we'd lose all the comments, views, discussion, and link mojo. If I find a second error, I'll think about it.
@Harp4Hand
3 жыл бұрын
Absolutely fantastic video, thank you so much for explaining in such entertaining detail.
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Cool. Glad you liked it!
@ournewseason
3 жыл бұрын
Great way to put all the system components together and list the Pros/Cons. Due to my research, I understood the concepts but this video really painted the complete picture. Thanks Rembrandt! 😉
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Glad you liked it!
@patriciahein2867
3 жыл бұрын
W? hy aren't these rv's using 12 volt air conditioners? Are they that bad? What do you know about it?
@tubedude3
2 жыл бұрын
air conditioning draws too much amperage for 12 volts. You need more voltage to carry the power even a small ac unit requires.
@greensavant2573
2 жыл бұрын
Roadtrek used to offer that on their XL body style. Also, it was under-chassis instead of on the roof. Never did talk to anyone who had one. This was before their ownership situation.
@michaelhardwick3505
3 жыл бұрын
Excellent. One of the best videos on lithium power I’ve ever seen.
@TerryPullen
3 жыл бұрын
I hate to be a safety Sally but do you think it's a good idea to leave your bicycle helmet setting on the burner like that?
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Lol. That's actually an old saucepan full of sand! I use it to dry out dowels and such to shrink them a tiny bit when I assemble things. Makes it easier.
@cjmvejby
3 жыл бұрын
Hey. The Ekko salesman says I can't add batteries above the one [with generator] or the two with generator delete. I am not opting for the outside ”tailgater” kitchen; do you know if and how you could use that space to add battery capacity?
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
I haven't seen that space without the kitchen in it yet. The batteries can be heavy. That would be one concern. Another challenge is getting a battery cable safely over the midline of the vehicle and over or around the exhaust.
@CleanPowerAuto
3 жыл бұрын
You can add 2nd battery right next to the first one, regardless of generator. EKKO options restriction is not due to space, it's some weird Govt. regulation, which restricts OEMs on how much energy they can stuff in. Most customers will likely get one battery and a generator from WBGO and then buy 2nd battery from the dealer or Lithionics directly, along with possible inverter upgrade from 2kW to 3kW. Adding 2nd battery is super easy. Adding 3rd and 4th battery will require a bit of wiring, so James has some work to do, LOL.
@davesw357
3 жыл бұрын
Great presentation, very informative. Well done sir !!!!!!!
@gayegomila6285
3 жыл бұрын
I guess when you add solar panels it helps with having to have alternators charge the batteries… correct?
@kconatymd
3 жыл бұрын
The most awesome summary comparing the two systems that there will ever be! This should be required viewing for anyone considering Travato L models vs Ekko. Thanks for doing this! Very timely and relevant.
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
High praise, thanks so much!
@gerryc270
3 жыл бұрын
Very informative to a prospective buyer who has been trying to evaluate all of this with the rigs we are considering.. Do you use a teleprompter or something? It seemed like a straight lecture with no notes!!!
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks! I did have my notes bulleted out so I wouldn't forget anything!
@kevinmak8819
3 жыл бұрын
Great explanations! I learned a lot! Thanks:)
@randycurry
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you James! You have laid it out clearly for all to understand! Be Well!
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
You are very welcome!
@richardd.4421
3 жыл бұрын
Great video and explanation from a rocket scientist to the folks who think amps are for guitars. Very clear and concise, thanks.
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Rock on!
@terryharrigan6324
3 жыл бұрын
Lithionics offers batteries from 12V to 102V. You said they only over 12V.
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Winnebago only offers the 12v system from Lithionics now.
@lancealbrecht400
3 жыл бұрын
Great Video, we have a npe travato and find the same issues that you mentioned, still like the system but are looking at the echo for some of the same reasons. Nice job, very well done and I learned a lot. Thanks
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
It's been interesting to us to see how many Travato owners are interested in the EKKO. Glad you found the vid useful!
@DanielKuGoogle
3 жыл бұрын
What about Solar and MPPT used in both systems? Do they play any factor in terms of the longevity of the system?
@CleanPowerAuto
3 жыл бұрын
You can add solar easily to Lithionics system as the market is full of 12v compatible controllers and panels. It is more difficult with Volta due to closed system and different voltages.
@tringatringatringa
3 жыл бұрын
My electrical engineer husband was entirely entertained (I was too!). 😆
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
I'm glad to hear he approved! (And you, too!)
@oceanplanetenergy
3 жыл бұрын
FWIW, Lithionics can do 25V and 51V LiFePO4 systems as well. We do a lot of 25V systems on yachts with high-power alternators for fast charging.
@Thefitrv
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah. I imagine if the rest of the industry goes there, Lithionics could start making RV systems that way in a heartbeat.
@oceanplanetenergy
3 жыл бұрын
@@Thefitrv Actually can be done right now...using the same 28V or 56V alternators that Volta uses (American Power Systems). Those are the ones we use for the high-end marine applications. The 28V actually kicks in at lower rpm than the 56V, which is an issue with the Volta system that you noted in the video. So unless the loads are really high (making more kW charging necessary) the 28V works great.
@terryharrigan6324
3 жыл бұрын
@@Thefitrv If you check Lithionics web page, they show modules up to 102 volts.
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