Fantastic! Glad it doesn't need fuming nitric acid, it's so hard to get.
@finlaymartins272
6 ай бұрын
Finally a guide that knows what they are doing! Great results 👍
@pwarrow
6 ай бұрын
Happy to see you find it useful. Thank you for your support. It's made my day ☺️
@rsmrsm2000
7 ай бұрын
Congratulaions. Please more videos.
@pwarrow
7 ай бұрын
Thank you for the support, I look forward to sharing more videos in the future. cheers : )
@ColeL88
Жыл бұрын
For removing the die from the package, it is much easier to use a hotplate which can get up to ~450°C rather than a torch. Place the die facing the hotplate and wait for the crackling to stop before slowly peeling away the PCB until you can fit something underneath the die. You can also leave the die on the hotplate afterwards for ~10mins at 450°C with the solder balls facing down to get the upper layers to turn to ash as is done in this video. For most Intel chips from Prescott up to and including Haswell you can shave away the metal layers using utility razor blades to get down to the interesting bits. I find this gives much better results than glass etching paste but it takes practice. I made a video showing this technique: kzitem.info/news/bejne/2LCHmpyncYyAeqw This still works for Broadwell and Skylake but it is much more difficult and you are better off using acid or lapping film. This also seems to work for AMD and Nvidia chips, but they develop craters if you are not careful. Probably better off sticking to lapping film for them also. Anyway cool seeing other techniques for this, thanks for sharing :)
@pwarrow
Жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for sharing your video with me. I din't know a simple blade and some skills was so effective however, if you don't mind me asking. May I know what you meant by getting better results ? This is the first I have seen of someone using a razor blade and am very curios as to what difference it makes. I mean, I have long not been able to account for what the chemicals remove and have seen it make dies that are decapped from expoxy look super dull. Onces again, thanks for sharing this insight with me. I am sure to use the heatplate method when I can afford one. Never had liked the torch method ever to be honest. Just simply did it out of necessity.
@ColeL88
Жыл бұрын
@@pwarrowI replied, but it keeps getting hidden. I think KZitem automod is removing it...
@pwarrow
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for your response. I have checked the held for review section for comments on my KZitem studios app but din't see anything held up there. I have ran into this issue before and if your response happens to have off platform links, that might be the issue. If removing that does not solve it, and if you still feel like it. You can always drop me an email over at pwarrow99@gmail.com Once again, thank you for you interest / support and on behalf of KZitem. I am sorry for the inconvenience.
@ColeL88
Жыл бұрын
@@pwarrow Yes I had some links to a couple flickr photos. I'll email you instead!
@pwarrow
Жыл бұрын
Thanks, I have read and responded to it. I got a little carried away so yea... Sorry in advance 😅
@DomiaAbrWyrda
8 ай бұрын
I've always wanted to try this ever since I saw someone do a die shot with a gts 250 so many years ago as a kid And now I found someone giving away a G645 for free so I'm excited to try! Will that Pentium cpu work with your method? Or will I have to buy 3m finishing papers
@pwarrow
8 ай бұрын
Forgive me if you see multiple responses, KZitem keeps removing my comments for no good reason but, to answer your question yes, for both the GPU and CPU you picked, this method should work for it. No polishing paper required. I am really happy to see that you finally get the chance to try this out. Best of luck in your endeavours and feel free to share anything interesting you fine with us. Cheers : )
@DomiaAbrWyrda
8 ай бұрын
@pwarrow Thanks! I'll have to wait a few weeks for uni to start so I can try (new semester in March) but I am so excited! Thank you so much for the guide video too, I'll comment back in March hopefully :)
@pwarrow
8 ай бұрын
Haha, my new sem starts in a few days. Sigh, but anyhow, I look forward to your update. Best of luck and have fun ☺️
@ShaunJV12
5 ай бұрын
Hi, thank you very much for this tutorial. I have found this method works really well for exposing the die, however it always seems to leave some residue or seems to burnish the silicone, either way it doesn't remove the copper completely cleanly. What would you suggest please? If it's possible to email/pm you I can show you some pictures
@pwarrow
5 ай бұрын
Hey, I'm glad to hear you found this tutorial helpful. Regarding a better method, I discovered that after the glass etchant treatment, if some copper remains, you can dip the die in nitric acid to clean it up nicely. If that doesn't work, you can try using a mixture of nitric acid, hydrochloric acid, and hydrogen peroxide. Additionally, as an unrelated note, I found that a much better and cheaper alternative to glass etching cream is ammonium bifluoride. It's one of the main active ingredients in glass etching cream, but buying it in bulk is often cheaper and more effective. Oh, also, I would like to see some photos if it's not too much trouble. My email is pwarrow99 followed by @ Gmail . com. Sorry I have to write it in such a weird manner. KZitem will filter my comment otherwise. I am developing a new method that should be compatible with SOI chips, and the more data, the merrier. 😊
@ShaunJV12
3 ай бұрын
@@pwarrow Hi sorry for my late reply. Thank you very much for your reply. I have read online people use chemicals like nitric acid, hydrochloric acid etc but I was hoping to find something safter to use at home as they seem like scary chemicals and have to be disposed of properly haha. I did consider getting some Iron (III) Chloride as that's what they use to etch PCB's which makes sense as it's designed for removing copper and is probably a little safer, but again it has to be disposed of properly. Do you ever mechanically polish your die's, using like 2-5 micron lapping paper? I found it not to be very effective. I'd be more than happy to share my images with you, I did send you an email a while ago but didn't recieve a reply, I'm not sure if you saw it or not.
@pwarrow
3 ай бұрын
Hi, no worries. I appreciate your insight as always. I've just checked both my inbox and spam folder, but unfortunately, I didn't receive it. Would you mind sending it again? I'll try adding my email to the About section of this channel; you can also check there if you need my email. KZitem doesn't seem to like it when I put my email here. Regarding your question about using mechanical methods for die delayering, I haven't tried them yet. When I started this project, I was determined to use only chemicals because I considered sanding too unpredictable and unreproducible. My goal is to make the process as accessible as possible, which is why I didn't consider mechanical methods initially. However, I've been reconsidering this approach. Based on my testing, after burning off the underfill of the chip and exposing the copper layer, there's usually another transparent silicon dioxide layer on top. Considering this, I think it's quite likely that if you start sanding there until you begin to see some copper particles on your sandpaper, and then proceed with ferric chloride to finish, it should yield comparable results. Something you could perhaps try out. As for the disposal of chemicals, particularly acids, I typically neutralize them and pour them into my backyard. It's probably not the best practice, but most of the byproducts are inert, and the amount of metal salts produced from each use is minimal. After all, we are dealing with layers measured in microns. If you do plan to use ferric chloride, the only other method aside from giving it to a chemical disposal company that I can think of is mixing in sodium hydroxide. This should form ferric hydroxide, copper hydroxide, and sodium chloride. Both ferric hydroxide and copper hydroxide are solids, so you can filter them out. The remaining solution should only contain sodium chloride, which is safe enough to pour down the drain. As for the solids that remain, you will need to decompose them at 300 degrees to form iron oxide and copper oxide. These are now inert enough to be disposed of in the regular garbage. I must note that I'm not a chemist, and I haven't personally tested this disposal method, so I can't guarantee its effectiveness. it's probably the best to consult proper disposal guidelines. Personally, I store most of my waste in a bucket, which I refer to as "future me's problem"! Dumb, I know. Apologies for the lengthy response. I understand you're exploring chemical-free methods, which I haven't delved into extensively due to time and resource constraints in university. Looking forward to your response tho, and I'll update you with any progress when I conduct further tests or experiments, possibly in another video. In the meantime, feel free to share anything interesting you find. Cheers : )
@ShaunJV12
3 ай бұрын
@@pwarrow Hi, yeah sure, I'll email you again later today. I agree with your comment about sanding, it is difficult to do and hard to repeat as I found out so I think your chemical methods are definately a better way of doing it. You seem to know a more about chemistry than me haha, but if you're able to neutralize them then that's great. I have thought about posting this on a r/Chrmistry subreddit to see what actual chemists would suggest. What was it like using the Ammonium Bifluoride? Did you have to neutralise that or prepare it in any particular way? Im perfectly open to methods that involve chemicals, I was just wondering if there was a safer alternative to the scary acids haha. Thank you very much for your replies, good luck in University and yes please do make another video with your progress when you feel the time is right :D
@pwarrow
3 ай бұрын
Hey Shaun, Thanks for your reply and kind wishes. Just to let you know, I've received your email and reviewed the images you sent. It's mighty impressive what you achieved with sanding. Also, haha, quite a coincidence that we both use the same Nikon D5300 camera. Did you get a zoom lens or macro lens? I was never able to afford one, and the limited focal distance made it difficult for me to capture good images. Regarding preparing ammonium bifluoride, there are a few precautions you should be aware of: Firstly, it's obvious but important: only use plastic for anything that will come into contact with ammonium bifluoride. It etches glass, which could be problematic. Secondly, I doubt they sell ammonium bifluoride in liquid form, but if they do, I recommend against receiving it that way. Only buy it in solid crystalline form-it's safer to store and reduces the risk of chemical spills. Thirdly, use proper PPE. Neoprene or nitrile gloves should be worn when handling the chemical. Safety goggles and a lab coat are also essential. I strongly recommend using gloves that extend up to your upper arm to prevent skin contact, as fluorine poisoning can occur if enough is absorbed through your skin. Fourthly, have a solution of calcium hydroxide nearby along with a tube of calcium gluconate. If any Amonium Bifloride gets on your skin, quickly wash it off and treat any burns with the Calcium Gluconate gel. Any leftover solution should then be neutralized with calcium hydroxide. Finally, try to use it outdoors. It may not produce as much fumes as hydrofluoric acid (HF), but it's better to be safe than sorry. As for posting on r/chemistry and conducting your own research, I strongly encourage it. I am no chemist, and sometimes I do question my own practices. Plus, who knows what we might learn. Do keep me updated if you find anything interesting on both the die shot and safety fronts. Another important thing I wish to share is concentration. I haven't done extensive tests to find the optimal concentration for using ammonium bifluoride for etching, but from my experience, a 30 percent solution should work fine. I've mostly been adding an arbitrary amount, and it hasn't failed me yet. I do admit, it's something I should investigate further, perhaps a topic for a future video. In terms of alternatives to acids, I'm not sure if I already mentioned this, but a method I've been thinking a lot about is the possible use of cerium oxide as a mechanical etchant. It's just a theory, but I think that if we are able to spray a high-pressure stream of water and cerium oxide mix on the die after the burning step, we might be able to slowly remove the top glass layer without using ammonium bifluoride. If we can achieve this, the only actual etchant we would need is ferric chloride to remove the copper layer. This would probably be the safest way to perform a die shot if it works. The only issue is that I don't have the time or resources to conduct this test. University has taken up both my time and resources since moving to Taiwan to study. My parents weren't thrilled when I started experimenting with chemicals, and I can't imagine what my roommates would think if I turned my dorm room into a lab. A modified version of this test could be the one I proposed to you yesterday: partially sanding the top layer until the copper is exposed and then using ferric chloride to complete the rest of the etching process. Theoretically, if this works, we might have just found a novel chemical method to tackle SOI dies too. It's frustrating to think I've been sitting on this idea for almost two years. I mean heck, I even drawn up and entire 3D model in fusion 360 of what a prototype device would look like. I really want to do the test so badly :(. Perhaps you can consider giving it a try ? Anyhow, I think that's really all I have for now. Again, I must apologise for such a drawn-out response. I really just don't wanna leave anything out. Do feel free to contact me if you have anything else you wish to ask or share. These kinds of discussions are as close to what life used to be before things started flying off the rails for me lol. Anyhow, Cheers and have a fantastic day ahead : )
@ItsAkile
9 ай бұрын
Hmm wonder how this method works work on the PS3 die, wanted to make a display piece with the die and a necklace
@BlackXGamer1202
Жыл бұрын
Thank you very much for this video ! How do you store the CPU afterwards? I don't know much about this and I am scared of storing it in open air as it may create an oxydation layer so I wanted to know how you are storing it
@pwarrow
Жыл бұрын
Hi, thank you very much for your support in these videos. As for storage, you don't have to worry about it forming an oxide Layer as it won't do that in open air at normal temperatures. Even In extreme temperatures the oxide that forms is silicon dioxide, which is glass and is clear. Tho, if you do wish to remove it. Some glass etching cream can help with that. Personally, I have just resorted to keeping my dies in individual zip lock bags then storing those bags in a structurally sound box. It's worked well for me and is very cost effective. Tho, for my more important dies I have kept them inside of a harder plastic case with some foam in it, which when closed will sandwich the dies between the case and the foam. Unfortunately tho, I got that case from my scrap drawer so I am not sure where to source such a box but since die thickness can be an issue with such a method of storage, I still suggest you go with the zip lock bag and box method. Just make sure 1 die 1 zip lock bag to keep them from scratching each other.
@BGTech1
Жыл бұрын
What kind of camera and setting did you use to get the close up shot on your website? I bought over a hundred CPUs I’m going to start over holiday break.
@pwarrow
Жыл бұрын
Oh, I din't really use anything special l had a Nikon D5300 with the stalk lense. I was operating the camera in manual mode while keeping the aperture number as big as possible. The focus distance of the stalk lense dint allow me to be very close up with the die, so I had to move my camera back and forth to find the closest distance I could possible place my camera while maintaining focus. If you wish to photograph the dies. I suggest you get a macro lense as it would be of huge help.
@BGTech1
Жыл бұрын
@@pwarrow thanks, if things go well I might buy a macro lens for the cannon camera I use. It’s pretty similar to the one you have. But for now I will just use without it
@pwarrow
Жыл бұрын
@@BGTech1 Alrighty, hope all goes well. Do let me know if I can aid you in anyway. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out if you do make a video about it. Again thanks for the support.
@BGTech1
Жыл бұрын
@@pwarrow did you see this video I made a few weeks ago? kzitem.info/news/bejne/u4WivYaFipyih4I
@pwarrow
Жыл бұрын
@BGTech1 yes, I have and great video btw. Logic chips are just damn beautiful aren't they. I have also tried this method before. When working I found it produces the best quality dies however, sometimes it might be rather inconsistent and get stuck in the epoxy package. When that occurs unfortunately, I have resorted to controlled burning or boiling sulphuric acid. The lather of which is better for detail preservation however, far more dangerous. Do you perhaps know of any way to make it more consistent through your test runs ?
@alessandrocarinelli4200
Жыл бұрын
Will ferric chloride or hydrochloric acid+hydrogen peroxide work for removing the copper?
@pwarrow
Жыл бұрын
In a bath of warm ferric chloride it might however, I think this would be excruciatingly slow. I have seen a video where this method was used and it took them in orders of days to I think a week to make an intel Itanium die shot. The reason is due to the fact that there is a thin layer of glass above it. The glass ends up protecting the copper from etching and the only path is, and this is only my theory. The holes that were left behind by the near microscopic interconnects that connect the transistor layer to the microbumps above. Inadition to that, I think some dies use metals that are hard for Hcl to dissolve alone. If you happen to encounter this. Then you can try a mix of Hcl, nitric acid and some peroxide if you have it. I found that it helps clean up the dies better. I have never tried soaking the dies in a warm mix of this for extended periods of time but I suspect, over a long enough period, it might work. Finally, if you are asking this because glass etching cream is hard to find or a little too pricy. Then you can subsitude it for a solution of Amonium bifloride. I found it works well and it's rather cheap to obtain by the kilo. Sorry for writing so much however, I really do hope you will be successful in your experiments. Don't hesitate to let me know if I can help you with anything and if you can, let me know if you find anything out that is interesting. Oh yea also, don't forget, anything that can dissolve glass will definitely not be compatible for exposing SOI based dies. If you try it, you will end up with a blank ruined die. An example of this would be Amd A6 3400M Cpu. So yea, do be careful.
@BGTech1
2 жыл бұрын
Does this work for silicon on insulator Chips? Or just Cmos? I've been wanting to do this for a long time but it looks like every chip type requires its own method. With that said, what specific chips will this method work on?
@pwarrow
2 жыл бұрын
Unfortunately, it doesn't work for Soi chips I tried it on multiple older AMD CPUs and it just left me with a blank die. It seems like the only way for those for now is manual lapping unfortunately. I am working on a way so that manual lapping is not required. Will update you when I can figure a way out.
@BGTech1
2 жыл бұрын
@@pwarrow that would be great! I would love to get more into it but college has me occupied at the moment. I guess the only way to go forward is to experiment with the different methods you and a few other channels have posted. I'd have already mastered the technique of using a hot air gun to decap small epoxy ICs but they are definitely not as interesting, but it's a good start.
@pwarrow
2 жыл бұрын
Oh haha I am in a similar predicament tho I am just going to start college soon. Tho a quick note about decapping epoxy chips. RF related chips are from my experience the most beautiful and interesting looking and oh yea, if you get the chance to try to decap phone SOC you should definitely cook it in sulphuric acid. Tho, please please be very very careful when doing so. Anyways I think I said a little too much. Happy to see your enthusiasm and good luck !
@filiplaskovski9993
2 жыл бұрын
Greta vid dude
@pwarrow
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the support : )
@MrGlitchDogePE
7 ай бұрын
I'd want to make a die shot of a dead MX130 GPU chip that died on my Dell Latitude 5490 just for fun
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