Most quote Heb 11:3 for creatio ex nihilo which is a misreading of what‘s going on
@benjamintrevino325
6 ай бұрын
I still don't get why Jesus would withhold Himself for centuries while He (God the Father) cultivates the Israelite religion, only to appear later and start the new religion that bears His name (leaving out the other two aspects of the Trinity). Throughout the OT, God through His prophets continually warns about false prophets/Messiah. Is it any wonder that JC was rejected? It would be like asking Christians to reject JC because there's a new guy named Muhammad who has the real and final word of God.
@kennethswenson6214
2 ай бұрын
This is the second time I have had comments scrubbed from the AiG, CMI or ICR page; when I have tried to offer a contrasting view on Creation "ex nihilo" It's like they don't want people to know otherwise.
@translucentbricksky2086
2 жыл бұрын
Interesting, great explanation!
@RyanTafolla
2 жыл бұрын
Seen you on Tik tok and love what you do! What kind of camera did you use for this video?
@maklelan
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much, Ryan! I filmed this on my iPhone in its 4K 24fps setting.
@secondjeff
Жыл бұрын
Dan you should do a collaboration video with Ben Spackman. That would be awesome.
@SimonDaumMusic
8 ай бұрын
How are we to understand that nothing was made that was not made by Jesus? Does it rather referre to orgaizing pre-existing matter?
@glenwillson5073
4 ай бұрын
Here's a radical thought. Why not start with checking in with what the Bible actually claims first? There is more than one death, a person may undergo. There are different resurrections at different times, a person may experience. A person may be resurrected with a new body made of spirit. A person may be resurrected with a new replica (not original) physical body made of flesh, bones & blood etc.. Biblical resurrection does not mean reanimation & reassembling of the original atoms of the original physical body, it means putting the same mind back into a new physical or new spirit body.
@tulpas93
2 ай бұрын
"The Bible" ?!? I get such a kick out of people who think there is a "the bible." There are hundreds of variations and translations, and for each of these, there are millions of interpretations of the texts. The statement "what the bible claims" is a rather silly one and should be treated as such. Perhaps you meant: "my preferred interpretation of my favorite version of the bible." Now that's something I could at least try to take seriously!
@glenwillson5073
2 ай бұрын
@@tulpas93 Not all variations are genuine translations however, so scratch those off the reading list. But that still leaves many translations, for sure. When it comes to, "... my favorite version of the bible", scholars recommend a limited number for study. Am I just picking "my favourite" if I use their recommended translations? The claim of "millions of interpretations", is just atheist Kool-Aid. If there were millions of interpretations there would be millions of doctrinal differences between denominations. There isn't. There are different and contradictory beliefs for sure, but the count between different denominations is small. Also, the differences in interpretation (doctrinal belief) are rarely based upon there being different translations but are usually different interpretations of the same translation. In other words, it's rare to get belief A from reading Bible X, and belief B from Bible Y. If you think this is untrue, find me 10 major differing doctrinal beliefs, that result from reading 10 different translations, find 5. Why there are different interpretations coming from reading the same translation is another story, but it's got virtually zero to do with there being different translations or using a "favourite" translation.
@tulpas93
2 ай бұрын
@@glenwillson5073 Sorry, you're too of the rails to be worth engaging with. Good luck!
@CMVMic
4 ай бұрын
Distinct existents are not emergent, they are eternal.
@tulpas93
2 ай бұрын
Please demonstrate. I like the idea, but it would be weak minded to accept an assertion without some evidence. 😊
@CMVMic
2 ай бұрын
@@tulpas93 fair enough. Would a valid and sound argument suffice?
@tulpas93
2 ай бұрын
@@CMVMic Well, I sure don't have time to wait around for eternal! 😊
@CMVMic
2 ай бұрын
@@tulpas93 eternal does not mean an infinite amount of time. Eternal refers to that which has no beginning or end, that which cannot come into or go out of existence. Sempiternal refers to an infinite process or number of events. Here's the argument. P1. Matter is a wholly distinct existent. To exist means to be spatial, empirically verifiable and grounds change. P2. Anything that is not matter refers to the activity of matter. This is justified by non-inferential immediate experience. P3. The impossibility of an alternative existent entails there is only one existent that grounds changes P4. The emergence of any new wholly distinct existent contradicts ex nihilo nihilfit and the law of identity. A distinct existent cannot come from that which it has nothing in common with. C1. There is only one existent and it is eternal, not emergent Defense of P1 All conceivabilities are cognitive events, and all cognitive events refer to transitions between static states and only that which is spatial can be static. Defining anything else into existence is guilty of an existential and reification fallacy and a category mistake.
@davidjay4373
2 жыл бұрын
I don't think you did a good job explaining Gen 1:1, which does seem to imply creation ex nihilo
@tulpas93
2 ай бұрын
That's what you are reading into it, not what it implies. ... but that's okay! You get to believe whatever you want! 😊
@kamilfrompoland7
Жыл бұрын
God created the world out of nothing, first He created the heavens and the earth, but then the earth was flooded. God restored the earth to an inhabited state to put man on earth. Obedient people replace the rebels. Jesus, the morning star replaces Satan. For thus says the Lord, Creator of the heavens. He is God, Shaper of the earth. He founded it. He did not create it a ruin *(tohu)* . Rather He formed it to be inhabited. Isaiah 45:18 And He shall stretch over it the line of desolation *(tohu)* and the plumb line of emptiness *(bhohu)* Isaiah 34:11 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form and void *(tohu wa-bhohu)* ; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains and , lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all its cities were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger. Jeremiah 4:23-26
@davidmcnaughty4889
2 ай бұрын
Gotta love a god that can't explain things clearly. It's almost as if people made this shit up as they went along, no god required.
@sleepforeveryone
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for sharing your knowledge of the Bible and ancient worldviews. I never really have thought about this before. 🤔 Very interesting! 👍
@J.T.Stillwell3
2 ай бұрын
This doctrine is incoherent. You cannot ascribe the property “can be created out of” to an absolute negation (nothing). A=A, not -A = A.
@gritch66
Ай бұрын
Indeep my new boyfriend in the begining told me that after his genetic test he seems pretty close 100% basque. Does this mean something?
@achildofthelight4725
2 ай бұрын
First there is a thought that comes from somewhere, in which it is manifested into being. Where do my thoughts come from, and how long were my thoughts in existence. I own nothing in this world, I owe it all to who, made everything from nothing.
@johnobryan2293
Жыл бұрын
In the Tanakh it say , when God began to create heaven and earth the earth being unformed and void It does not say in the beginning.
@Jim-Mc
2 жыл бұрын
How do you feel about the idea that the Logos served as a Demiurge (i.e. John1:1) and arranged the formless matter that God the Father initially created?
@MatthewM217
Жыл бұрын
Logos is just an idea with no vessel. God gave vessel to that which was already idea/logos
@MatthewM217
Жыл бұрын
I have a concept I am thinking of- a character I WANT to draw. I then have to perform the act of drawing to create it. It does not require I take a formed part of me, but I am giving form to the for less to convey concept.
@user-po3sv3gj1r
Жыл бұрын
우리는 하나님이 왜 창조하셨는 지를 생각해야 합니다. 창조는 무질서에 대한 질서의 부여가 아닌, 무에 대한 유의 부여입니다. 그것은 유의 하나님의 무에 대한 투쟁입니다. 이때에 무의 성격은 분명해지며, 하나님의 작업도 분명해집니다.
@user-po3sv3gj1r
Жыл бұрын
at the first, we must define that we can know, understand, talk about God with physical idea..
@user-po3sv3gj1r
Жыл бұрын
the perfect nothing(nihilo) can exclude the God.
@user-po3sv3gj1r
Жыл бұрын
Physically, they can be together. nothing has no neighbor.
@user-po3sv3gj1r
Жыл бұрын
physically, nothing is impossible. and thing is more impossible.
@davidthurman3963
Жыл бұрын
No it's delusional has zero to do with anything.
@tulpas93
2 ай бұрын
Not sure what language your comment was translated from, but it does a crap job with English!
@timh6475
Жыл бұрын
Thank You! 💖🐇🦄💖🐰💯
@Christus-totalis
7 ай бұрын
"as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”-in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist" Romans 4:17
@tytrib
Жыл бұрын
William Lane Craig going to just sidestep these arguments like they don’t “matter”but I suggest folks like him need to take a deeper look like what the James Webb is doing for Hubble ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@MalachiMarvin
Жыл бұрын
If the first verse in Genesis is rendered, "In the beginning when...", then the first creation event becomes, "Let there be light." That makes the whole poetic structure of the Genesis account fit together better. The way Christians render it makes it awkward and clumsy.
@jaypandya9661
Жыл бұрын
Well spoken
@danstoian7721
Жыл бұрын
I agree with you those verses are no good. But did you consider Romans 4:17? Please take a look at the NET Bible footnot d on that verse. Curious what you think about it! Cheers! Dan
@maklelan
Жыл бұрын
This is the same Aristotelian distinction of matter that has being from matter that is non-being.
@Wiley799
2 жыл бұрын
Do you know if any god legends suggest a creation out of nothing?
@jwjbros7926
Жыл бұрын
Can you provide the greek literature source and example that shows "creation out of nothing " used in conjunction with human procreation?
@googolplex1
8 ай бұрын
"Creatio" (no "n")
@goldenalt3166
Жыл бұрын
Romans 4:17 literally says "out of nothing" in some Bible versions. Is this translation accurate?
@maklelan
Жыл бұрын
No, this is precisely one of those verses that refers to material moving from the real of "non-being" to "being" by having form and function imposed upon it. The material exists in the realm of "non-being" in the sense that it doesn't have form or function, not in the sense that it doesn't exist.
@goldenalt3166
Жыл бұрын
@@maklelan So you think this is not really "nothing" as the theists like to say? Is there support for this in the surrounding verses?
@maklelan
Жыл бұрын
@@goldenalt3166 The academic consensus is that that passage is not about creation out of nothing. Grammatical it matches the earlier Greek notions of material existing in realms of "being" and "non-being," and as far as we can tell, every last passage of the Bible presupposes creation out of chaotic matter. We don't find any clear indication of creation out of nothing until the second century CE.
@kpbattlesword6062
Жыл бұрын
I don’t buy it. It would seem you are reading your assumption into it as much if not more than the historical reading of it. With all respect to your degrees. 😊
@markchristiansen9611
Жыл бұрын
Ironically, modern Big Bang physics says it was all basically created out of nothing.
@tulpas93
2 ай бұрын
Nope, not even remotely. Anyone making such an assertion is demonstrating how little they understand the science. That's pretty much headline fodder and nothing more. Good health to you!
@umatveg
Жыл бұрын
Good thing Christianity didn't start with the Bible and the Church, which came first and was founded by Jesus himself and brought the Bible taught this through out the centuries. So I'm not putting my money on modern scholars and their modern interpretations of things that have been settled for ages.
@tulpas93
2 ай бұрын
Jesus was Jewish and likely had no idea people would be practicing a new religion based on fragments of documents written long after his death. He'd likely be utterly baffled by what was done in his name!
@umatveg
2 ай бұрын
@@tulpas93 my friend, I see you are well versed in popular misinformation, I would like to invite you to the truth and leave behinds the lies of antichristian rethoric. So please, allow me to correct your errors. Let me commend on the first part, which you got right, Christ was indeed Jewish. Now, he was not only that but He IS God in the flesh. So he did know people would be practicing the religion He himself started and invited people to follow. Yes, he started a Church, with a visible head and hierarchy and not just that He gave it authority and promised it was going to last until his second coming, and what do you know, after 2000 years, that Church is still here teaching what the apostles taught. What you didn't get right was scriptures. You see we don't have fragments, we have entire copies dating to the first century, in fact, the writings about Jesus are so early, that no other historical figure compares to what we have of Him and how early all writings are. Just to give you an example, the first writings about Buddha are from 450 years after his death, mohammed 200 years after his death. Jesus 15 to 30 years after His Resurrection. It's ridiculous how early it is, and what's more, they are written by eyewitnesses. The teachings of Christianity are the real teachings of Jesus, specially the ones coming from the Church He himself founded.
@earlygenesistherevealedcos1982
10 ай бұрын
1st John chapter one. "1 In the beginning [before all time] was the Word ([a]Christ), and the Word was with God, and [b]the Word was God Himself. 2 He was [continually existing] in the beginning [co-eternally] with God. 3 All things were made and came into existence through Him; and without Him not even one thing was made that has come into being. 4 In Him was life [and the power to bestow life], and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines on in the [c]darkness, and the darkness did not understand it or overpower it or appropriate it or absorb it [and is unreceptive to it]." AMP version
@Imaginathor-1k0
3 ай бұрын
'In the beginning' means 'inside of time' not outside of time
@earlygenesistherevealedcos1982
3 ай бұрын
@@Imaginathor-1k0 not according the the translators of the AMP version.
@Imaginathor-1k0
3 ай бұрын
I don't find where it says that, but "in the beginning" doesn't implies outside of time.
@goinggoinggone535
2 ай бұрын
This is a mistranslation. John 1 actually starts with, "When God began to create the heavens and the Earth..." It's not "In the beginning". "When" means time, not timeless.
@earlygenesistherevealedcos1982
2 ай бұрын
@@goinggoinggone535 ??? I think you mean Genesis starts that way? And I know many many scholars, including our host here, are pushing that retranslation of Genesis, but it is almost certainly wrong. I have two vids on my channel about this which apply. One of them shows the textual steps they have to do to get this in detail. When you see it, you realize how absurd it is. The other delves into the question of how Genesis 1 should be translated if not in the traditional mannar (taking the molehill they turn into a mountain and finding other ways to deal with it that are simpler.)
@umatveg
Жыл бұрын
So I guess OP using C.E. instead of A.D. means he is not Christian
@Catholictomherbert
Жыл бұрын
I really think Dan mclelan needs to work on his vocal range to make it sound lower and a bit rough.
@soundimpact4633
2 жыл бұрын
Christ is the firstfruit of the NEW creation.
@Gavriel-og6jv
2 жыл бұрын
4:12 So then the original Hebrew should be obtained and considered instead of the Greek.
@maklelan
2 жыл бұрын
2 Maccabees was originally written in Greek.
@tulpas93
2 ай бұрын
That's what I do when I have questions about interpreting the US Constitution! 😊
@downenout8705
2 жыл бұрын
What intellectually dishonest nonsense, just read John 1: 1-3. The Christian God supposedly "created" everything and all that existed for god to "create" everything from was a "word". You can't get much more "ex nihilo" than that.
@Aldrnari
2 жыл бұрын
No. Look back at Genesis 1. The Deep, the tohu, was present before creation began, and God brought forth order out of disorder (which is also mirrored later in the Biblical references to Jehovah's battle with Leviathan). The word "created" in Genesis 1:1 is a Hebrew word related to carving or shaping something out of a block of raw material. It's similar to how we might say, "I created this table," even though we didn't create the wood out of nothing. Even in John 1, note that it says, "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made THAT WAS MADE." That qualifier, "That was made" indicates that the "all things" that the Word (that is, Jesus) created does NOT include things that were NOT made, ie, pre-existing materials.
@maklelan
2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely nothing in the text indicates the creating mentioned in that text was ex nihilo.
@downenout8705
2 жыл бұрын
@@maklelan What part of "everything" are you having difficulty understanding? You can deny that Bible claims that the Christian God is the creator of "everything" if you wish, but that simply leaves you with the unanswered question as to what "created" that which the Christian God didn't.
@Aldrnari
2 жыл бұрын
@@downenout8705 Again, "everything that was made." Not just "everything."
@maklelan
2 жыл бұрын
@@downenout8705 Creator of everything doesn't mean creator of everything out of nothing. "Creation" was often conceptualized anciently as a reference to giving form and function to material that didn't have form and function. In fact, no one suggested "creation" ever referred to creation from non-existence until the second century CE. Can you show your understanding of what "create" meant was current prior to the second century CE, or is one just required to presuppose your understanding.
@indigatorveritatis219
2 жыл бұрын
So the assertion this guy is making is that Genesis 1:1 refers to creation of the heavens and earth from existing heavens (at least) and existing material formed into the earth?
@maklelan
2 жыл бұрын
Well, from an existing empty and featureless earth and from the waters of chaos. The heavens were created by dividing the waters of chaos.
@indigatorveritatis219
2 жыл бұрын
@@maklelan How do you get a pre-existing heavens and earth from Genesis 1:1? I mean, without assuming it?
@maklelan
2 жыл бұрын
@@indigatorveritatis219 By observing that the earth was already there amidst the depths in a specific state described by the text "when God began to create the heavens and the earth." In other words, God's creating involved changing the state of an earth that was already there, albeit featureless and empty. That creation primarily involved manipulating the waters of chaos, which makes Genesis 1's creation account very closely related to those of other ancient Southwest Asian societies, only with the opposing divine forces neutralized.
@indigatorveritatis219
2 жыл бұрын
@@maklelan So you're begging the question. Not convincing.
@indigatorveritatis219
2 жыл бұрын
@@maklelan It doesn't say "when God began to create" and you're assuming the heavens and earth were already there before they were created, in which case you're assuming your conclusion
@Needlestolearn
Жыл бұрын
God is made of nothing, and by nothing comes everything. As he creates through his word. “How can He have a offspring when He has no consort? He created all things, and He hath full knowledge of all things. Quran 6:101 God does not eject nor emit anything from himself, as he isn’t made of materials and substances . 1. Say, “He is God, the One. 2. God, the Absolute. 3. He begets not, nor was He begotten. 4. And there is none comparable to Him.” there is none comparable to Him.” This is why we reject Jesus as being god’s offspring, and all other polytheistic ideologies. For god cannot produce another, as you cannot divide up nothing, as zero divided by zero gives error. nor can you extract something out of nothing, but by nothing, comes everything.
@russelltate3703
Жыл бұрын
How does a human alive in 2023 CE know these happenings?
@Needlestolearn
Жыл бұрын
@@russelltate3703 “Indeed, We sent down to you the Book for the people in truth. So whoever is guided - it is for [the benefit of] his soul; and whoever goes astray only goes astray to its detriment. And you are not a manager over them.” Quran 39:41
@burkholdst.rudderberg3574
2 жыл бұрын
Dan your GOD IS TOO SMALL! The god that cannot create something out of nothing ( Ex Nihilo ), is not the omnipotent God of the Hebrew/Christian scriptures. Have you not known? Have you not heard? The Lord is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary; his understanding is unsearchable. ( Isaiah 40:28 ) Moreover, If God created everything out of existing matter, who created the existing matter? Condemnant quo non intellegunt.
@abaddon2148
Жыл бұрын
it's not saying that god *can't* create out of nothing... rather in this instance he *didn't* . pretty important distinction
@Imaginathor-1k0
3 ай бұрын
Thats a childish thing to say😁.
@Imaginathor-1k0
3 ай бұрын
The bible also says God rested on the 7th day
@tulpas93
2 ай бұрын
Oooh! I want a pocket god! Most gods are way too big, makes it difficult when camping or on the road. If you know where to get a pocket god, please let me know!
@tulpas93
2 ай бұрын
@@Imaginathor-1k0Childish as in what one must be to enter the kingdom of heaven? Hmmm...
Пікірлер: 139