I can't believe there is a controversy. Joseph Smith said Zarahemla was across the river from Nauvoo, Ill. He said the BofM city of Manti was in Huntsville, MO, and the hill Cumorah in New York, and Zelph Mound in Illinois. He sent first run copies of the BofM to American Indian Chiefs and members of tribes around the Great Lakes and said the BofM was a record of their fathers. He also NEVER SPECIFIED ANY BOOK OF MORMON CITY OR LAND IN S. AMERICA. ZERO. He also NEVER sent missionaries or BofM's anywhere in S. America and never said any S. American was a Lamanite or that the record of their fathers was there.
@byronofcalgary6985
5 жыл бұрын
we also forget the LDS built a Visitors Center at Hill Cumorrah NY - we can google it and look - you can even get a "street side view " of the buildings etc - and a clear view of the hill with the wagon loads of treasure still in it
@antoniocorleone3986
Жыл бұрын
Where are the documents were it Joseph smiths says Zarahemla and Manti where in nauvoo and Huntsville respectively
@jamesmuir8747
3 ай бұрын
We know that Joseph Smith said that the Lehites landed in 20-22 South Latitude Serena, Chile. If you follow the story it fits perfectly SA and it is utter nonsense up in North America. You cannot make geographical sense of the BoM in North or Central America .....PERIOD! 'Narrow neck of land between Sea West and Sea East and it is half-way from the South and the North of their land.....That is the Gulf of Guayakil to the filled Azazon BASIN...ya know like a bowl...holding water until the destruction at the time of Christ and never is Sea East mentioned again. It drained out.
@GeorgeDemetz
3 ай бұрын
That is false!@@jamesmuir8747
@GeorgeDemetz
3 ай бұрын
Many schools are moron apostates! Where was the hill Joseph Smith found the plates in fools?!? In Zions camp march, Joseph Stated that they were crossing the plains of the Nephites, fools!!! Where did the Lord send Joseph Smith to the Lamanites, fools?!?
@danmcritchie1755
2 жыл бұрын
The biggest problem I have is; winter is not talked about at all. No where do they mention cold weather; quite the opposite in fact. Battles fought in what we would call winter, or colder months that they wore only loin cloths. Teancum Killed Amalickiah in his tent as the heat of the day caused exhaustion; on the last day of the year in a great battle. The fact that Nephi described the arrival of Columbus in the " Promised Land", he ( Columbus) never ever landed on continental US. They distinctly describe seas and lakes, they know the difference, and as it relates to the narrow neck of land between the two. Hagoth departs from the west sea traveling north from the narrow neck of land. And later voyages never heard from again. If you read the book and take note of what happens and where, you will find that it could not have occurred in the north eastern US. These are just a few of what I have over 30 things that suggest central or south America. Mexico city is built on an ancient city; where have I read that before? Possibly 3rd and 4th Nephi. What about those Prophets? Ones who were there.
@nailpolishqueen1919
2 жыл бұрын
Bro give up. Joseph smith made it clear where everything was because he knew. He knew because he wrote it all himself. Stop trying to make it true. Give up
@kohler62
Жыл бұрын
I must agree
@davus4242
Жыл бұрын
Excellent points Dan! You've got it. The heartlanders selling their books and DVD's always seem to discount or ignore these details when promoting their mis and disinformation to sell more books and videos, and now youtube clicks. As you say there are many examples; a few additional big ones, for the readers, are, in the BOM, Zarahemla is south of where the New Jerusalem will be built. Not east or northeast of it, and certainly not across the river from Nauvoo, seeing as New Jerusalem will be at Independence Missouri. It's comical. buhh, buhh, buht wait, "the great earthquake of destruction at the time of Christ crucifixion changed everything", uhhhh, nope, Mormon is narrating the story 400 years after that event, and knows what the geography is after the earthquake, according to Mormon, Zarahemla is still in the same place. Further, Mormon, still uses the major landmarks that were used before the storm. The narrow neck is still the narrow neck and is near or in the land of Zarahemla, as is Cumorah. Thus, Cumorah is also south of the land of the New Jerusalem. There is also a sea between the land of Zarahemla and the land of the New Jerusalem (Alme 63 & Hel.3). buh, buh, buht, "the Mississippi use to be wider". To all readers, Mormon knew the difference between a sea and a river, no matter how wide the river. Mormon is the one writing the story, he never mixes the terms sea and river. Also, in Hel 3, we read many thousands of Nephites migrate to this choice land of the north, some of them even traveled a great distance further only to discover large bodies of water. Notice Mormon doesn't use the term sea; why, because they are freshwater (aka lakes to us). These migrating Nephites who left FROM the land of Zarahemla and Bountiful, and traveled a great distance north, just so happened to have discovered the Great Lakes and settled the region around them. Want to guess what the places are called today, you guessed it, OHIO, NY, Indiana, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Wisconsin, So yes there will be evidence of Nephite cultures even from BC, in Ohio and the rest; But remember everyone, that's where some migrators settled, the left from From the lands of Zarahenla & Bountiful, sail across a sea and traveled a great distance north to these lakes. Zarahemla & Bountiful are in the southern part of the continent. Question, if, as some heartlanders claim, the narrow neck of land is one of the land necks between any of the Great Lakes, and one of the Great Lakes is the sea they sailed across to get to the land where the new Jerusalem will be built, where does that place where the New Jerusalem will be built? (Canada, oopsies) Okay, okay, okay, here's the kicker; did Joseph ever claim in what region of the continent Zarahemla is at? And if he did, would you be more believe Joseph or some researcher who discounts and ignores Joseph's opinion on the matter? As a matter of important fact, as Joseph called it, he did declare where on the continent Zarahemla was, not the exact location and actual ruins, but he did tell us in what region of the continent to look, and no scholars or researchers are necessary to establish where we will find Zarahemla; Joseph spelled it out as an "important fact" and put it in writing. Take heed, for this information will create heart-burn for some, yet delight the honest seekers. If you can handle the truth, hang on to your seat and proceed with humility...Because the Church's main focus and mission is to proclaim and teach the Gospel of Christ; BOM & Biblical geography are not topics the Church dwells on, thus many latter-day saints are unaware, Joseph claimed and declared Zarahemla was in Central America; he even put it in writing and published it. If you're interested to know this, google - Times and Seasons October 1, 1842 Zarahemla. Joseph as Editor, along with his assistant editors, Apostles John Taylor & Wilford Woodruff (both of whom would become presidents of the Church themselves), boldly declare as an "important fact" - Zarahemla was in Central America, in the land of Guatemala. To substantiate the claim and declaration, Joseph, being very familiar with the details of the BOM, quotes and rehearses Alma 22 describing the region where Zarahemla was. This is what Joseph felt and believed, and he printed it in the Church newspaper, there's no hearsay about it. The editors then went on to clarify, they weren't necessarily declaring an exact or specific city, mentioned in an explorer's book, which they had previously named and discussed, in a previous edition of the T&S as the city of Zarahemla. They didn't feel impressed to declare that specific city Zarahemla, only that Zarahemla was somewhere in Central America. However, they (Joseph, John, & Wolford) are of the opinion that the previously named city, was a city of the Book of Mormon. Read the T&S article for the full details. Keep in mind, this secondary clarification of a specific city previously named not being Zarahemla, does not remove or dissolve the declared important fact, that Zarahemla was in Central America. Zarahemla being in Central America collaborates with the BOM narrative. You either trust Joseph or you don't. To attempt to speculate this declaration away is futile. Because, also know, in the same T&S Oct 1, 1842 edition, the editors (Joseph, John, & Wilford) refute the conspiring claims of other publications in the region, suggesting Joseph had fled the area of Nauvoo and is on the run. Truth is, Joseph was still in the area and still very much editor of what was printed in the T&S Oct 1, 1842; while at the same time avoiding false arrest of conspiring men. Read the full edition, Joseph was still around and still very much in charge, as represented & substantiated by the T&S article itself. So a very special thanks, to the editors(Joseph, John, & Wilford), for documenting this conspiracy so long ago and clearing it up for future generations. Keep in mind, earlier that year, when Joseph took over as editor of the T&S, he declared, and assured the readers, that he alone was responsible for what was printed in the T&S while he was editor. Fast forward to November 15, 1842, a full six weeks after Joseph makes the declaration, Zarahemla is in Central America, Joseph steps aside as Editor and calls John Taylor as the new Editor of the Times and Season to replace himself. Logic and common sense dictate if John Taylor had published the Zarahemla claim all on his own, without Joseph's knowledge and consent, and if Joseph didn't agree with it, would Joseph have promoted John to Editor six weeks after such declaration?? The thought makes reason stare. Further, "if" Joseph didn't oversee the publication of the October 1, 1842 edition, and he disagreed with the bold declaration, know this, Joseph would have had it retracted, as he assured his readers he was responsible. Joseph never had it retracted; Joseph is the one who published it. Truth is, Joseph was Editor and owns the declaration, Zarahemla is in Central America. You either trust Joseph or you don't. Next, go to the Church's website and search - Book of Mormon Geography. Notice, the church takes no stance on the exact location of BOM cities, because no exact locations have been revealed. However, in the same statement on the Church's website, the Church does acknowledge Joseph's beliefs on the subject, and further confirms and substantiates Joseph as Editor of the Times & Seasons in 1842 for the articles referring to Book of Mormon lands and Central America (aka Mesoamerica). Very interesting indeed. Kinda clears up any speculation. Joseph, states Zarahemla, is in Central America, within the borders of Guatemala, as he would have known it on the maps of his day. For additional & interesting collaboration on what Joseph would have known Guatemala to be in his day, google - "map of Guatemala 1825" (or 1835, it doesn't matter) open a properly labeled map and notice Guatemala's borders back in Joseph's day extended as far north to include the Chiapas & Palenque areas of modern-day Mexico. Say what! A very interesting area indeed! Long before any scholar pronounce their own theory as to the location of the land of Zarahemla, Joseph had already declared it to be Central America. No scholars or theories needed to narrow down the general area, Joseph did it for us. All things considered, it all fits. If Zarahemla is in Central America, does the BOM narrative accommodate Joseph's claims of "walking the plains of the Nephites" and the Zelph stories? Could both be plausible? Yes, in fact, these stories actually collaborate the BOM narrative precisely. Alma 63 and Helaman 3:3-5,12-16 states many groups of Nephites left the land of Zarahemla & Bountiful and migrated to the north country, both by land and by sea. This also accounts for how a Zelph type character and other descendants of converted Lamanites being in the northern country during the last struggles. Remember these Nephites departed FROM the lands of Zarahenla and Bountiful. Also note, there is a sea, not just land, between Zarahemla and the New Jerusalem in the north country. So yes, there are plains of Nephites in the heartland of the north country, There are no contradictions by Joseph, and no mental gymnastics are required. There are even statements in the BOM narrative that signal there was commerce trade happening between the Nephites in the land of Zarahemla/Bountiful and the migrant Nephites groups in the north country. It's all in the book. The book itself, says we will find evidence of Nephite cultures in the heartland of North America; only the evidence found is that of Nephite groups that left the lands of Zarahemla & Bountiful where the prophets Nephi through Mormon dwelt, which is in Central America.
@andrewjackson7785
Жыл бұрын
Wayne May has said that lots of parrot bones have been found around the Great Lakes area which indicates that the weather was much warmer. The same parrots now just live in Florida.
@danmcritchie1755
Жыл бұрын
@@andrewjackson7785 Well the Jaredites did travel beyond their landing point, but Nephites did not. and yet their lands were close together as Limhi's people found the plates. Also J.S. when learning about the discoveries in Central America noted that they represented the Lehi family cultures.
@simon_carrick8198
2 жыл бұрын
The Hill from which Joseph Smith found the gold-colored plates was not the actual hill Cumorah. Let me explain why: Firstly, why does the general populace believe that Cumorah is the area of which the gold colored plates were buried? This comes from a reading of Mormon 6, which reads: “therefore I made this record out of the plates of Nephi, and hid up in the hill Cumorah all the records which had been entrusted to me by the hand of the Lord…” If you stop reading there, it seems to pretty clearly indicate Mormon buried the plates in the Hill Cumorah, the site of the Nephite last stand against the Lamanites, however, the next sentence is the most crucial detail, picking up where I left off: “…save it were these few plates which I gave unto my son Moroni.” (Mormon 6:6) Mormon 6:6 does not say where the Gold colored plates that would eventually be found by Joseph Smith are, but explicitly where they are not. Moroni, as the story continues, would wander for years before eventually burying them in a place presumably very far from the Hill Cumorah. So this begs the question, if Mormon buried a completely different set of plates in the Hill Cumorah, and Moroni buried the actual plates used for the BoM in a location most likely far from it, why do LDS leadership and members refer to the Hill that Smith retrieved the plates from as the Hill Cumorah when the scriptures clearly state that they are not present in that hill? The answer? Culture. It should be noted that the Hill was not called Cumorah until at the very earliest into the mid 1830’s, by anyone. This is long after Smith retrieved the plates, and even finished translating the BoM. Smith never referred to the hill in New York as the Hill Cumorah until 1842, and by then it had already been popularly called ‘Hill Cumorah’ for years by the general congregation. Smith pre-1842 simply referred to it as “the hill” or “hill” until he referred to it as Cumorah in the Doctrine and Covenants in the last few years of his life before being murdered. So if Joseph Smith did not start calling it the Hill Cumorah, who started the tradition? That is debatable and unclear as to who the absolute first was, but we do have records from the mid 1830’s from Oliver Cowdery and William Phelps referring to the Hill in New York as ‘Cumorah’, so it is likely those two that started the tradition. In conclusion, the Hill in New York that Joseph Smith retrieved the gold colored plates from was not the Hill Cumorah, and scripture from the BoM completely agrees with that. It most likely began to be called that from a misreading of the BoM by the general congregation, propagated by Cowdery and Phelps. All in all, it is referred to as Cumorah more because of LDS popular culture, rather than based on scripture. kzitem.info/news/bejne/lq9mrW2KgqSafX4
@davus4242
Жыл бұрын
correct!! Additionally for the honest seekers reading this, who may not know: There is ample evidence in the narrative of the Book of Mormon, that allows for, and describes, how there was a populous of Nephites and Lamanites in the north country (modern day USA), here's few. Around 200 BC, Mosiah, opened the flood gates of migration to the north country, when he proclaimed there was this wonderful land on the other side of the land of desolation where a New Jerusalem would be built. And, we have record, that many did go north into this new wonderful north country; when word got out, Nephites, Mulekites, and even Lamanites would have been migrating to this north country for two hundred years before Christ appeared. And, in fact we read, in time, they covered the entire face of the north land from coast to coast. (we're not talking about the Jaredited). Hel 3:3-5, sounds like those migrating folks discovered the Great Lakes! Thank you Mormon, for including that golden nugget and tidbit. That explains why they are plains of the Nephites in the area according to Joseph. Not to mention the groups that built boats and sailed north, just a couple of examples. This is only a snippet of the migrations that were going on. There's much, much more going on outside of what's specifically mentioned in the condensed Book we have. However, Mormon and Moroni gave us enough to paint and see the big picture of the continent, not just the area of the main story-line where Nephi, Mosiah, Benjamin, Alma, Ammon, Capt Moroni, Helaman, 3-Nephi all lived. We read, in Mormon 6:2-3 that all the Nephites where Moroni lived were killed, wiped out, he says he's the last Nephite in his home land, he's alone. Then we read in Moroni ch1, that as he wanders for his safety over the years, he see and tells us that the Lamanites are now at war between themselves, and they continue to kill Nephites who won't deny the Christ. There's so much more.... it's all there in the Book of Mormon! So, you see just by the examples above, Joseph's statements of the plains of the Nephites, the story of Zelph, and great battles in the heartland, all fit, when applying the over-all seen of the continent, as depicted in the Book of Mormon. There were Nephites and Lamanites all across the north country long before and after Christ arrived; we just don't have their full history (yet), only glimpses provided by Mormon, Moroni, and Joseph. More to come folks. The Book of Mormon is clear, that there were Nephites and Lamanites all across the continent. So, there would be evidence of the peoples all across the continent, and there are. However, when it comes to the main story-line of the Book of Mormon and where it takes place; where Nephi, Mosiah, Benjamin, Alma, Ammon, Capt Moroni, Helaman, 3-Nephi all lived; there is a contained geographical area where it happened. Mormon, lays it all out for us with his detailed descriptions of the geography. There is such a place in North America's geography, where the book's description and narrative nicely all fit. Where the Sidon river still flows north. (where Zarahemla is) Where the New Jerusalem is north of Zarahemla and Cumroah. Where the narrow neck of land is South of the hill Cumorah. Where Laman's land is south of the narrow neck of land. Where the seas, are all, where they're suppose to be. Where the mountainous wilderness is where it suppose to be. Where there are mountains that spew ash of destruction. (volcanoes) Where there are sunken, under water, stone city ruins in the area. say what! It's true! It all adds up, it all fits! Best wishes to everyone in your hunt. *Hint: it's not Ohio, New York, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, nor anywhere in current day USA or Canada.
@jonathann3d
4 ай бұрын
"Culture" did not invent the New York Cumorah/Ramah. It's the other way around. The idea that the New York hill is not Cumorah/Ramah is an invention by scholars in the early 1900s and has nothing to do with the text of the Book of Mormon. While it's true that Moroni did not write in his record that he was depositing the abridged records in the Hill Cumorah (which would have been a weird thing to do anyway, from a practical perspective), he did tell Joseph Smith that the record was "written and deposited not far from" Joseph's home near Palmyra. Look up that phrase in the Joseph Smith Papers and see for yourself. The record was written by Mormon and Moroni, which means they both lived in western New York, not somewhere thousands of miles away. Joseph, Oliver, and their contemporaries and successors were not speculating about the New York Cumorah/Ramah (even though modern scholars said they were). Lucy Mack Smith explained that it was Moroni who first identified the hill as Cumorah, as anyone can see in the Joseph Smith Papers here. www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1844-1845/41 . Apostle Orson Pratt explained this over a hundred years ago. He said there were "two departments" in the hill: the repository of Nephite records, and Moroni's stone box. It's all very simple and clear. For more references, visit www.mobom.org/church-history-issues
@TalesfromVirginia
4 жыл бұрын
This really comes down to: Do you believe God, Jesus Christ, Holy Ghost, the Spirit of truth and light, and His prophets and apostles or do you believe learned men who rely on theory and carnal understanding and theories? Be very careful before you answer this. It could lead you down the road to apostasy which some never return from. For me personally, I will always side with God our Heavenly Father, and Jesus Christ. Christ is the source of all truth and light.
@jetcitysinatra7300
4 жыл бұрын
*John Patrick Rako* why would one want to believe in something that is clearly a fraud? Joseph Smith made this all up but people still want to believe in a falsehood . . .
@TalesfromVirginia
4 жыл бұрын
@@jetcitysinatra7300 Let me ask a question: One man's testimony can be a lie. (like you testifying alone this is fraud). As the bible says by the testimony of two or more witness truth is established. The book of Mormon has 12 witness to the reality of the book of Mormon. Your testimony is just one so therefore the Falsehood remains with you and your statement and you have to bare the condemnation of just God for lack of faith and denying Truth or in plain English Denying the Holy Ghost. Who testifies That the Bible and the Book of Mormon are the Word of God.
@jetcitysinatra7300
4 жыл бұрын
@@TalesfromVirginia just because 12 people said it was true that doesn't make it so and it doesn't mean that they lied either. They might have thought deep down what Joseph was telling them was true. Joseph might have made it sound so good that they wanted it so real that it became real to them. Just like the book of gold plates. Now the LDS knows that if it were real gold plates and the size they say it was it would have been impossible for someone like Joseph to carry them all the way home while being chased by robbers and jumping over fences. If Joseph tried to pull off that incredible story today with all of our tech and news papers and TMZ do you think he would have been able to start up the LDS church or do you think he would be sitting next to Warren Jeffs in jail? Just curious.
@albertjgv17
3 жыл бұрын
@@TalesfromVirginia most of those such called witnesses did not keep being part of the Church. Does that say anything to you?; faith is good my good Jhon, blind faith is not that good.
@stephenkenney8290
3 жыл бұрын
I'll admit, even as a member I still have my doubts and there are times when I wonder if I have made the right choice. But at the end of the day I find that the Gospel offers me greater opportunities for personal and spiritual growth than anything else I have encountered in the world.
@neuzdotcom
2 жыл бұрын
The rabbit hole is alive and well.
@codetwoAJ
7 жыл бұрын
Excellent video. Keep them coming! Thanks for all your efforts in putting this information out there.
@fightingfortruth9806
Жыл бұрын
Anything anyone says must conform to Scripture. There is no narrow neck of land with a SEA east and SEA west in the Continental US. There is no statement in the Book of Mormon that Moroni buried the gold plates in the Hill Cumorah after the battle. Period. Joseph Fielding Smith states that if any church member, high or low, speaks something that goes against the standard works, we are "duty-bound to reject it".
@anamerican1138
3 жыл бұрын
I side with letting the Book of Mormon, and the Holy Spirit teach me what I need to do to draw nearer to Jesus. I am part native American; and am a faithful member of the Church. I side with the Prophets. Some of those in academia have let go of the rod and are in the mists. Some are already pointing the finger of scorn. I'm watching the Book of Mormon play out in my life. Thank you for this.
@JYDIVISN
2 жыл бұрын
Good luck with that. Let me know when you find the Garden of Eden in Missouri.
@MJScoutArchMar
2 жыл бұрын
Learn from the Bible. Not the book of Mormon.
@johncook8238
2 жыл бұрын
No steel arrowheads, spearheads, chariots, no bones. No evidence whatsoever. 2,000,000 dead Nephites and Lamenites. Wow moroni must have taken all that evidence back to the celestial kingdom with the plates.
@rconger24
Жыл бұрын
@@JYDIVISN Do you believe that God created life over the Earth and the best of LIFE was in The Garden of Eden? Do you think that Iraq is more green and growing with LIFE than Missouri? Is there any evidence that it was ever opposite? Do you know that the Clovis culture spear head was far in advance aerodynamically than the later tips in europe africa and asia? Do you know the Bible began in the Americas and went to the Middle East after the flood?
@rconger24
Жыл бұрын
@@MJScoutArchMar Do you know that no one here is saying you should not learn from The Bible? Do you know The Book of Mormon testifies of The Living Jesus? Have you ever actually read The Book of Mormon? Do you know that in terms of The Holy Spirit that The Book of Mormon is like triple-distilled fine Irish Whiskey?
@xrpirate536
5 жыл бұрын
Follow the Prophet!
@MrBeachbums5
4 жыл бұрын
Thank you Jonathan for all of your outstanding work and insight. I appreciate you so much!
@victormanuelsierra-garcia864
5 жыл бұрын
Joseph Smith stated that Moroni told him that there was an ancient record deposited in a hill. Moroni never told Joseph the name of the hill. Oliver Cowdery named the hill as Cumorah.
@kathryngriffiths2663
5 жыл бұрын
You are right, Moroni never mentioned it. However, you are apparently unfamiliar with the conversation that Joseph had with David Whitmer and Oliver while they were traveling from Pennsylvania to New York.
@davus4242
Жыл бұрын
@@kathryngriffiths2663 😃 The Book of Mormon is another volume of scripture, that testifies of Jesus Christ and His gospel. That's the message of the Book, and it's true! Among the writings of that message, are descriptions of where and when it took place. Mormon, Moroni, and Joseph included all the details necessary. Moroni never referred to the hill, where he buried the plates, as Cumorah. He met with Joseph many, many times for years and never once referred to it as Cumorah. Joseph never mentions Moroni mentioning the name of the hill where he got the plates. In Joseph's history, he names off all the scriptures, places, events, and previous prophets, Moroni mentioned during his visits, surely Moroni knows the name of the hill he knew as Cumorah. Moroni names everything else; why would he not refer to this hill by name?? Because the hill where he buried the plates in, he didn't know by name; he was led to it by the spirit after having wandered for 30+ years, so the plates would be in a constitutionally free country and where Joseph's family would be. Remember, Mormon gave the plates to Moroni at Cumorah and instructed Moroni to am-scram to protect the plates. Moroni carried the plates away from Cumorah, he didn't bury them in Cumorah. Also, keep in mind, Joseph wasn't the one who started calling the hill, Cumorah; other saints did. Nowhere in the BOM or Joseph's histories (pick a version, it doesn't matter) does Joseph or Moroni, ever call the hill in NY, Cumorah. It was Oliver Cowdery and other saints, who first called the hill in NY Cumorah, not Joseph, nor Moroni. Realize, it's a common practice for people to name places after other places. Much like the Saints who settled Utah, naming the predominant mountain South of Utah Lake, Mt. Nebo; it doesn't mean it's the same Mt. Nebo Moses stood upon overlooking the promised land. Good grief. It's an honorary name and it became common vernacular by the Saints to reference the hill where Joseph dug up the plates as Cumorah; they had to call the hill something in conversation. In Joseph's history written in 1838, years after the saints had been calling the hill in NY, the Hill Cumorah, Joseph still doesn't refer to the hill as Cumorah in his history, he has it recorded as 'a hill of considerable size', even though by this time, it had become the nomenclature of the saints to refer to the hill, where he got the plates, as Cumorah. The name Cumorah is mentioned in the Book of Mormon as where Moroni received the plates from his father, if the hill in NY is the real BOM Cumorah, the one where Mormon buried all the records, why would Joseph go out of his way to not have the "actual" known name of the hill referenced in his history?? Because Joseph and Moroni, both knew it was not the hill Mormon was at; accuracy matters for the recorded history. Again, the NY hill was originally referred to as Cumorah, first, by other Ladder-day Saints, not Moroni, nor Joseph. Once, the saint had adopted calling the hill in NY, Cumorah, Joseph was fine with the endearing and honorary name, of calling the hill Cumorah in conversations himself, as that's what the saints were used to, as identifying the hill where he received the plates. Thus there is the original BOM Cumorah, which Mormon and Moroni knew, and also an honorary Hill Cumorah in NY, named by the saints. Don't let some theorist inject another narrative other than what it recorded in the official history. It's important to make the distinction. According to the BOM, a New Jerusalem will be built upon this Continent, in the land north of Zarahemla, we know by modern-day revelation, as being more specifically within the current borders of the United States of America, in the current borders of the state of Missouri, at a location currently known as Independence. We also know from the BOM narrative that the Hill called Cumorah by Mormon was north (not east) of the narrow neck of land and in the region of Zarahemla. It's important to remember this when placing Cumorah. Also remember, the New Jerusalem is north of Zarahelma (not west or southwest of Zarahemla) Because the Church's main focus and mission is to proclaim and teach the Gospel of Christ; the BOM & Biblical geography are not topics the Church dwells on, thus many latter-day saints are unaware, Joseph claimed and declared Zarahemla was in Central America; he even put it in writing and published it. If you're interested to know this, google - Times and Seasons October 1, 1842 Zarahemla. Joseph as Editor, along with his assistant editors, Apostles John Taylor & Wilford Woodruff (both would become presidents of the Church themselves), boldly declare as an "important fact" - Zarahemla was in Central America, in the land of Guatemala. That's what Joseph believed, and he printed it, there's no hearsay about it, he printed it. The editors then went on to clarify, they weren't necessarily declaring a specific city, that was previously named and mentioned in a previous edition of the T&S was the city of Zarahemla. But that they are, however, of the opinion that the previously named city was a city mentioned in the Book of Mormon. The name of the city comes from a book by an explorer of Central America. Read the T&S article for the full details. Keep in mind, this secondary clarification of a specific city previously named, does not refute the declared important fact, that Zarahemla was in Central America. Nor does Zarahemla being in Central America diminish there, being Nephites in the heartland of the north country. In fact, it actually collaborates with the BOM narrative perfectly. Also, know, in the same T&S Oct 1, 1842 edition, the editors (Joseph, John, & Wilford) refute the conspiring claims of other publications in the region, suggesting Joseph had fled the area of Nauvoo and is on the run. Truth is, Joseph was still in the area and still very much editor of what was printed in the T&S Oct 1, 1842; while at the same time avoiding false arrest of conspiring men. Joseph was still around and still very much in charge, as represented & substantiated by the T&S article itself. So a very special thank you, to the editors(Joseph, John, & Wilford), for documenting this, so long ago, and clearing it up for future generations. Joseph knew dissenters would arise! Six weeks later, Joseph, calls John Taylor to replace himself as the new Editor of the Times and Season on November 15, 1842. Logic and common sense dictate, if John Taylor published the Zarahemla claim on his own, without Joseph's consent, and Joseph didn't agree with it, would Joseph have promoted John to Editor? Further, if Joseph didn't oversee the publication of the October 1, 1842 edition, and disagreed with the bold declaration, Joseph would have had it retracted. Joseph did not have it retracted, as he is the one who published it. Truth is, Joseph was Editor and owns the declaration, that Zarahemla is in Central America. You either trust Joseph or you don't. Next, go to the Church's website and search - Book of Mormon Geography. The church takes no stance on the exact location of BOM cities because no exact locations have been revealed. However, in the same statement, they do acknowledge Joseph's beliefs on the subject, and further, confirm and substantiate Joseph as Editor of the Times & Seasons in 1842 for the articles referring to Book of Mormon lands and Central America. Very interesting indeed. Don't let anyone try and trick you into thinking Joseph wasn't editor and in charge of the T&S in Oct of 1842. Joseph, never provided the exact location of Zarahemla, only the general area of it being in Central America, within the borders of Guatemala as he would have known it in his day, via widely available published maps. For additional & interesting collaboration on what Joseph would have known Guatemala to be in his day, google - "map of Guatemala 1825" (or 1835) open a properly labeled map, and notice Guatemala's borders back in Joseph's day, extended as far north to include the Chiapas & Palenque areas of modern-day Mexico. Say what! A very interesting area indeed! Long before any scholar pronounce their own theory as to the location of BOM lands, Joseph had already declared it to be Central America. No scholars or theories needed to narrow down the general area, Joseph did it for us. All things considered, it all fits. Does the BOM accommodate Joseph's comment of "plains of the Nephites" and the Zelph stories? Yes, in fact, these stories actually collaborate the BOM narrative masterfully. In Alma 63 and Helaman 3:3-5,12-16 it states many groups of Nephites left Zarahemla/Bountiful and migrated to the north country, both by land and by sea. This also accounts for how Zelph and other descendants of converted Lamanites were in the north country during the last struggles. Remember these Nephites departed FROM the lands of Zarahenla and Bountiful, aka the main storyline of the Book of Mormon land. Also note, there is a sea, not just land, between Zarahemla, and the New Jerusalem in the north country. So yes, there are plains of Nephites in the heartland of the north country, since before Christ. It's all accounted for in the BOM. There are no contradictions by Joseph, and no mental gymnastics are required to see that it all fits the book's narrative. Joseph's plains of the Nephites comment, along with the Zelph story all collaborate with the BOM account. There are even statements in the BOM narrative that signal there was commerce trade happening between the main storyline Book of Mormon land Nephites of Zarahemla/Bountiful and the migrant Nephites groups in the north country. It's all in the book. The book itself, says we will find evidence of Nephite cultures in the heartland of North America, no surprise there, however, the northern Nephite evidence we find, is not evidence of the main BOM Nephite lands of Zarahemla.
@1pt21jigawatt
5 жыл бұрын
The BoM is to be a book of faith and not to be convinced via archaeological findings. When the Lord reveals it to us all I'm sure we'll have a good chuckle.
@dannyd7426
5 жыл бұрын
1pt21jigawatt - We are not meant to live by faith alone. Faith precedes knowledge. And it is by the power of the Holy Ghost that we may KNOW the truth of all things, not believe in them. Follow the steps laid out in Alma 32 to know the truth of all things. It is because we believe things that so many outside the church laugh at us and call us sheeple. I’m tired of that.. and want that stigma to be fixed. Good luck, either way!
@dante04srt
Ай бұрын
Yeah, see the problem with that kind of logic is that the book literally claims to be a literal record of people who lived here in america. You can't start off by calling it literal and then say that you have to take everything on faith and people are silly for looking for archaeological evidence of it. We all know, the reality is, that the entire book is written by Old Joe and does not hold up under the scrutiny of any kind of objective analysis. It is literally just this one religion that claims the entire truth of humanities reason for existence, where it started, where it went, battles that never actually happened, etcetera. If it was some kind of universal truth, you'd think that Scholars of numerous fields of study, outside of the church, would unanimously agree that there is something to it. It's been almost 200 years and no one is doing that. In fact, it's doing quite the opposite. Joseph Smith wasn't prepared for the information age.
@1pt21jigawatt
Ай бұрын
@@dante04srt Here’s the thing; when the BoM came out there were a ton of anachronisms (things that couldn’t be proven). Since then, all but 25% of the anachronisms have been proven to be as JS said. I’m guessing you’re waiting for a 100% of them to be proven. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but that still wouldn’t convert you. You’re either on the ark with the faith that someday it will rain or you’ll be standing outside pounding on the door screaming to let you in when it starts raining. I’m afraid it might be too late for you my friend.
@dante04srt
Ай бұрын
@1pt21jigawatt you said a lot of things there, but none of it was actually evidence. Prove to me that 75% of the Book of Mormon has been proven true. Where are the ruins from ancient civilizations that blanketed this continent? Where is the evidence that steel existed in bom times? DNA science and severe lack of archaeological evidence as well as the Rosetta Stone witch made the book of Abraham an obvious fabrication all seem to be in stark contrast to your faith. There's far too much evidence against the BOM than there is for it.
@jaydee8864
4 ай бұрын
I always questioned the central america idea as the plates were found in NY but had no idea that so much evidence existed in the US. It now makes perfect sense that the Book of Mormon would occur where Adam first walked and the land the gospel was restored.
@ralphmiller2620
4 жыл бұрын
Hi Jonathan. I too have studied and researched these two locations and have compared them both extensively, including noting that ramps to alters in Mesoamerica are steps, whereas in the Heartland the ramps leading up to alters are actually ramps. At first I thought this to be no big deal but then I found in the book of Leviticus that the Lord stated specifically that ramps should be used going up to ramps rather than steps because of modesty issues. So to be compliant with the Law of Moses, all ramps up to alters had to be just that, ramps, no steps. Also, the type of animals necessary for Mosaic law sacrifice and use are not found in south America but were in the Heartland. There are tons and tons of evidence coming to light seeming to prove the Heartland to be the ancient lands of the Nephites, Mulekites, Lamanites (Hopewell) and the much older Jaredites (Adena). I now do feel very strongly that the Heartland is the place and not Mesoamerica even though those nations were great civilizations as well and co-existed with the BoM peoples. No doubt there was some trade between these ancient peoples.
@lancedelano9001
4 жыл бұрын
Yes, I think caution is the right word of the day. But, there is enough here that is interesting. For instance, one of the reasons people reject the heartland model is that they say the Hill Cumorah couldn't sustain the number of people mentioned in the final battles. Yet, I believe the reported book of Mormon numbers are much higher than the way we'd count today. 10,000 is easily simply ten big groups. I remember reading (don't ask me where) that middle eastern archeologists think the Old Testament numbers were off by at least double. I don't think this strange -- different cultures have much different counting systems. And, I think - at least - the BoM people took the Old Testament ways of counting with them into the new world. But, these are just guesses. And, I think to reject, say the heartland model, because the numbers are "off" is to make a strong statement about the accuracy of the numbers -- which I don't think we know. All said, the heartland model seems to fit many other dimensions much better. And, I agree with the other sentiments that these were neighboring cultures. I'm sure they knew about each other and that elements of each other's cultures were adopted. Perhaps people even migrated (e.g., the Aztecs which came from the north.) But, the other statement I like is that one can waste too much time on this. There are much better ways to spend our time.
@ralphmiller2620
4 жыл бұрын
@@lancedelano9001 Yep. The more I get into a study of the archaeology of the Book of Mormon, the more I too believe it to be in the American heartland. The Nephites were mound builders, they didn't build grand stone structures, that was for the Mayans and Aztecs to do. As more and more evidence begins to come to light, it definitely supports the heartland as the place where it all happened.
@rethamoore4282
5 жыл бұрын
I'll believe my prophets over any scholars.
@albertjgv17
3 жыл бұрын
What about prophets from the Bible?; do you beleave more in your prophets than in them?
@theephraimite
3 жыл бұрын
@@albertjgv17 we believe them, too.
@albertjgv17
3 жыл бұрын
@@theephraimite except when a livibg prophet says something which contradict or changes something a Bible prophet said before. Then, acording to Mormon doctrine, you supose to listen more to the living prophet than the prophet in the Bible. I am not making this of, search in your doctrine
@theephraimite
3 жыл бұрын
@@albertjgv17 so, the bible says we should offer animal sacrifices. Does that mean we should should still offer animal sacrifices. Give me an example of what lds prophets have said that contradicts the bible.
@albertjgv17
3 жыл бұрын
@@theephraimite it is funny, is not that what you answer when you all get attack about poligamy?; that it is on the Bible and was given to the prophets in the old testament?; so that means to following up in the begining of the restored Church was ok?; do you want an example of that?; what about Brigam Young saying that Eternal Marriage (polygami) was necesary to get Eternal Life?; years later Wilford Woodrof, then Phrophet of the LDS Church gave the Revelation to stop practicing. So tell me, why did 't you obey what Young said and instead you followed the new commatment? Did you ever find in the Bible any example of God changing his mind just because law of man told Him so?
@hijetoffroad4757
3 жыл бұрын
There are three scriptural statements which place the Book of Mormon story right in the center of the USA. The Lord told the Jaredites that Zion would be built upon their lands. The Lord told the Nephites that Zion would be built upon their lands. Then the Lord told Joseph Smith that Zion would be built in Jackson County Missouri. These three statements pretty much solidify where the Jaredite and Nephite land were/are.
@sussybaka4276
2 жыл бұрын
Spot on
@davus4242
Жыл бұрын
There's much more than three scriptural statements that paint a larger picture in understanding of how it all fits together with The Book of Mormon narrative and descriptions. The Book of Mormon is spot on! For the honest seekers reading this, who may not know: There is ample evidence in the narrative of the Book of Mormon, that allows for, and describes how, there was a populous of Nephites and Lamanites in the north country (modern day USA), long before Christ, here's few. Around 200 BC, Mosiah, opened the flood gates of migration to the north country, when he proclaimed there was this wonderful land on the other side of the land of desolation where a New Jerusalem would be built. And, we have record, that many did go north into this new wonderful north country; when word got out, Nephites, Mulekites, and even Lamanites would have been migrating to this north country for two hundred years before Christ appeared. And, in fact we read, in time, they covered the entire face of the north land. We're not talking about the Jaredited, we're talking Nephites, Mulekites, Lamanites. Read Hel 3:3-5, Look it up! It sounds like those migrating folks discovered the Great Lakes! Long before Christ arrived, not after. Thank you Mormon, for including that golden nugget and tidbit. That explains why there are plains of the Nephites in the area according to Joseph. Not to mention the groups that built boats and sailed north, just a couple of examples. This is only a snippet of the migrations that were going on. There's much, much more going on outside of what's specifically mentioned in the condensed book we have. However, Mormon and Moroni gave us enough to paint and see the big picture of the continent, not just the area of the main story-line where Nephi, Mosiah, Benjamin, Alma, Ammon, Capt Moroni, Helaman, 3-Nephi all lived. We read, in Mormon 6:2-3 that all the Nephites, where Moroni lived, were killed, wiped out, he says he's the last Nephite in his home land, he's alone. Then we read in Moroni ch1, that as he wanders for his safety over the years, he see and tells us that the Lamanites are now at war between themselves, and they continue to kill Nephites who won't deny the Christ. There's so much more.... it's all there in the Book of Mormon folks! So, you see just by the examples above, Joseph's statements of Zion, New Jerusalem, the plains of the Nephites, the story of Zelph, and great battles within the heartland, ALL fit; when you apply the over-all picture of the seen of the continent, as depicted in the Book of Mormon. There were Nephites and Lamanites all across the north country long before and after Christ arrived; we just don't have their full history (yet), only glimpses provided by Mormon, Moroni, and Joseph. More to come folks. The Book of Mormon is clear, that there were Nephites and Lamanites all across the continent. So, there would be evidence of the peoples all across the continent, and there are. All of Joseph's statements are a counted for in the book. There are is no need for mental gymnastics to get things to fit. It's all there, and accommodates everything Joseph said. However, when it comes to the main story-line of the Book of Mormon and where it takes place; where Nephi, Mosiah, Benjamin, Alma, Ammon, Capt Moroni, Helaman, 3-Nephi all lived; there is a contained geographical area where it happened. Mormon, lays it all out for us with his detailed descriptions of the geography. The book is clear on its geography. There is such a place in North America's geography, where the book's description and narrative nicely all fit. Where the Sidon river still flows north. (where Zarahemla is) Where the New Jerusalem is north of Zarahemla and Cumorah. Where the narrow neck of land is South of the hill Cumorah. Where Laman's land is south of the narrow neck of land. Where the seas, are all where, they're suppose to be. Where the mountainous wilderness is where it suppose to be. Where there are mountains that spew ash of destruction. (volcanoes) Where there are sunken, under water, stone city ruins in the area. say what! It's true! It all adds up, it all fits! Best wishes to everyone in their hunt. *Hint: it's not Ohio, New York, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Missouri, Mississippi, nor anywhere in current day USA or Canada.
@bookofmormonheartland
7 жыл бұрын
This is about as plain and simple as you could make it. Thanks.
@whothinksforme
5 жыл бұрын
This is brilliant! More members of the church need to see this video! I would say easily 99% of all church members accept the Mesoamerican theory.
@vendingdudes
4 жыл бұрын
I would guess the number is much lower, but still a handy majority. Would love to see stats, or some survey taken.
@davus4242
Жыл бұрын
To all readers and seekers: The Book of Mormon is another volume of scripture, that testifies of Jesus Christ and His gospel. That's the message of the Book, and it's true! Among the writings of that message, are descriptions of where and when it took place. Moroni never referred to the hill, where he buried the plates, as Cumorah. He met with Joseph many, many times for years and never once referred to it as Cumorah. Joseph never mentions Moroni mentioning the name of the hill where he got the plates. In Joseph's history, he names off all the scriptures, places, events, and previous prophets, Moroni mentioned during his visits, surely Moroni knows the name of the hill he knew as Cumorah. Moroni names everything else; why would he not refer to this hill by a name?? Because the hill where he buried the plates, he didn't know by name; he was led to it by the spirit after having wandered for 30+ years, so the plates would be in a constitutionally free country and where Joseph's family would be. Remember, Mormon gave the plates to Moroni at Cumorah and instructed Moroni to am-scram to protect the plates. Moroni carried the plates away from Cumorah, he didn't bury them in Cumorah. Also, keep in mind, that Joseph wasn't the one who started calling the hill in NY, Cumorah; other saints did. Nowhere in the BOM or Joseph's histories (pick a version, it doesn't matter) does Joseph or Moroni, ever call the hill in NY, Cumorah. It was Oliver Cowdery and other saints, who first called the hill in NY Cumorah, not Joseph, not Moroni. Realize, it's a common practice for people to name places after other places. Much like the Saints who settled Utah, naming the predominant mountain South of Utah Lake, Mt. Nebo; it doesn't mean it's the same Mt. Nebo Moses stood upon overlooking the promised land. Good grief. It's an honorary name and it became common vernacular by the Saints to reference the hill where Joseph dug up the plates as Cumorah; they had to call the hill something in conversation. In Joseph's history written in 1838, years after the saints had been calling the hill in NY, the Hill Cumorah, Joseph still doesn't refer to the hill as Cumorah in his history, he has it recorded as 'a hill of considerable size', even though by this time, it had become the nomenclature of the saints to refer to the hill, where he got the plates, as Cumorah. The name Cumorah is mentioned in the Book of Mormon as where Moroni received the plates from his father, if the hill in NY is the real BOM Cumorah, the one where Mormon buried all the records, why would Joseph go out of his way to not have the "actual" known name of the hill referenced in his history?? Because Joseph and Moroni, both knew it was not the hill Mormon was at; accuracy matters for the recorded history. Again, the NY hill was first referred to as Cumorah, by other Latter-day Saints, not Moroni, not Joseph. Once, the saints had adopted calling the hill in NY, Cumorah, Joseph was fine with the endearing and honorary name of calling the hill Cumorah in conversations himself, as that's what the saints were used to, as identifying the hill where he received the plates. Thus there is the original BOM Cumorah, which Mormon and Moroni knew, and also an honorary Hill Cumorah in NY, named by the saints. Don't let some theorist inject another narrative other than what is recorded in the official history. It's important to make the distinction. According to the BOM, a New Jerusalem will be built upon this Continent, in the land north of Zarahemla, as we know by modern-day revelation, as it being more specifically within the current borders of the United States of America, in the current borders of the state of Missouri, at a location currently known as Independence. We also know from the BOM narrative that the Hill called Cumorah by Mormon was north (not east) of the narrow neck of land and in the region of Zarahemla. It's important to remember this when placing Cumorah. Also remember, the New Jerusalem is north of Zarahelma (not west or southwest of Zarahemla) Because the Church's main focus and mission is to proclaim and teach the Gospel of Christ; the BOM & Biblical geography are not topics the Church dwells on, thus many latter-day saints are unaware, that Joseph claimed and declared Zarahemla was in Central America; he even put it in writing and published it. If you're interested to know this, google - Times and Seasons October 1, 1842 Zarahemla. Joseph as Editor, along with his assistant editors, Apostles John Taylor & Wilford Woodruff (both would become presidents of the Church themselves), boldly declare as an "important fact" - Zarahemla was in Central America, in the land of Guatemala. That's what Joseph believed, and he printed it, there's no hearsay about it, he printed it. The editors then went on to clarify, they weren't necessarily declaring a specific city, that was previously named and mentioned in a previous edition of the T&S as the city of Zarahemla. They are, however, of the opinion that the previously named city was a city mentioned in the Book of Mormon. The name of the city comes from a book of an explorer of Central America. Read the T&S article for the full details. Keep in mind, this secondary clarification of a specific city previously named, does not refute the declared important fact, that Zarahemla was in Central America. Nor does Zarahemla being in Central America diminish there being Nephites in the heartland of the north country. In fact, it actually collaborates with the BOM narrative perfectly. Also, know, in the same T&S Oct 1, 1842 edition, the editors (Joseph, John, & Wilford) refute the conspiring claims of other publications in the region, suggesting Joseph had fled the area of Nauvoo and is on the run. Truth is, Joseph was still in the area and still very much editor of what was printed in the T&S Oct 1, 1842; while at the same time avoiding false arrest of conspiring men. Joseph was still around and still very much in charge, as represented & substantiated by the T&S article itself. So a very special thank you, to the editors(Joseph, John, & Wilford), for documenting this, so long ago, and clearing it up for future generations. Joseph knew dissenters would arise! Six weeks later, Joseph, calls John Taylor to replace himself as the new Editor of the Times and Season on November 15, 1842. Logic and common sense dictate, if John Taylor published the Zarahemla claim on his own, without Joseph's consent, and Joseph didn't agree with it, would Joseph have promoted John to Editor? Further, if Joseph didn't oversee the publication of the October 1, 1842 edition, and disagreed with the bold declaration, Joseph would have had it retracted. Joseph did not have it retracted, as he is the one who published it. Truth is, Joseph was Editor and owns the declaration, that Zarahemla is in Central America. You either trust Joseph or you don't. Next, go to the Church's website and search - Book of Mormon Geography. The church takes no stance on the exact location of BOM cities because no exact locations have been revealed. However, in the same statement, they do acknowledge Joseph's beliefs on the subject, and further, confirm and substantiate Joseph as Editor of the Times & Seasons in 1842 for the articles referring to Book of Mormon lands and Central America (aka today, as Mesoamerica). Very interesting indeed. Don't let anyone trick you into thinking Joseph wasn't Editor and in charge of the T&S in Oct of 1842. Joseph, never provided the exact location of Zarahemla, only the general area of it being in Central America, within the borders of Guatemala as he would have known it in his day, via widely available published maps. For additional & interesting collaboration on what Joseph would have known Guatemala to be in his day, google - "map of Guatemala 1825" (or 1835) open a properly labeled map and notice Guatemala's borders back in Joseph's day, extended as far north to include the Chiapas & Palenque areas of modern-day Mexico. Say what! A very interesting area indeed! Long before any scholar pronounced their own theory as to the location of BOM lands, Joseph had already declared it to be Central America. No scholars or theories needed to narrow down the general area, Joseph did it for us. All things considered, it all fits. Does the BOM accommodate Joseph's comment of "plains of the Nephites" and the Zelph stories? Yes, in fact, these stories actually collaborate the BOM narrative masterfully. In Alma 63 and Helaman 3:3-5,12-16 it states many groups of Nephites left Zarahemla/Bountiful and migrated to the north country, both by land and by sea. This also accounts for how Zelph and other descendants of converted Lamanites were in the northern country during the last struggles. Remember these Nephites departed FROM the lands of Zarahenla and Bountiful, aka the main storyline of the Book of Mormon land. Also note, there is a sea, not just land, between Zarahemla, and the New Jerusalem in the north country. So yes, there are plains of Nephites in the heartland of the north country, since before Christ. It's all accounted for in the BOM. There are no contradictions by Joseph, and no mental gymnastics are required to see that it all fits the book's narrative. Joseph's plains of the Nephites comment, along with the Zelph story all collaborate with the BOM account. There are even statements in the BOM narrative that signal there was commerce trade happening between the main storyline Book of Mormon land Nephites of Zarahemla/Bountiful and the migrant Nephites groups in the north country. It's all in the book. The book itself, says we will find evidence of Nephite cultures in the heartland of North America, no surprise there, however, the northern Nephite evidence we find, is not evidence of the main BOM Nephite lands of Zarahemla or Bountiful, where the prophets Nephi through Mormon dwelt.
@garry-es2jh
Жыл бұрын
Simple question to ask when discussing this issue: when did Joseph Smith go to mess-America to receive the golden plate from Moronl?
@d.jensen5153
4 жыл бұрын
Confession: I didn't watch the video. All I did is look at the drawing at 6:52 and try to imagine how such vast distances were covered in such brief intervals. While I have no 'facts' to present, my gut instinct is that the majority of the BofM took place in an area considerably smaller than what is shown there. One thing I've done in my life is walk a lot. I have an idea of the limits of human endurance - how far one can walk in a day and how far one can walk day-after-day.
@TheShinyDog
4 жыл бұрын
At about 6:43 in this video, there is a map showing Zarahemla in present-day Iowa. Where would places like the land of Bountiful or the land of Desolation be if overlaid on the same map?
@roberthutton7240
6 жыл бұрын
I came to the USA in Feb 2001. I have met so many "scholarly" saints of God., pioneers, returned missionaries and smart as a whip. Trust m they will NOT whip me into submission from their rameumptom.
@vendingdudes
4 жыл бұрын
Into submission to what? Or from what?
@tanyas.3812
5 жыл бұрын
Could you please have someone work on the audio of your videos? It's very difficult to clearly hear all your words and in some cases there is a terrible background noise going on......
@rickbowman21
4 жыл бұрын
I was going to make the same comment. A lot of muttering.
@GospelOfTimothy
3 жыл бұрын
What's a terrible music playing in the background
@janetmariehuff7647
5 жыл бұрын
LDS scholars should know to follow the prophet.
@mikeluck4342
3 жыл бұрын
They dont
@philandrews2860
4 ай бұрын
Most of the LDS scholars do, at least the ones I am aware of. They follow our current prophet and apostles, who are completely neutral on this topic. They tend not to take as literal 'Gospel truth', various obscure sayings of earlier church leaders who were merely giving their opinions, strongly though some of them may have held such views. Church leaders, past and present, can speak purely as men rather than be always expected to speak under direct revelation from God, especially when it pertains to matters such as the location of Mormon's Cumorah and other Book of Mormon places, a knowledge of which are not at all essential to our salvation. Folks such as Jonathan Neville and Rod Meldrum seem to think otherwise, which to me borders on falsely accusing faithful members of either being apostate or on the road to such. I'm disappointed with folks who make such insinuations.
@jeffreysmith7542
5 жыл бұрын
If the book of mormon took place in North America. Where than was the narraow neck of land with the sea east and the sea west. It seams like a bit of a stretch to say that fresh water lakes were considered to be seas. Plus the geography just doesn't seem to fit the Book of Mormon descriptions as well in the North as it does in central America.
@kathryngriffiths2663
5 жыл бұрын
Yes, It may appear that way but remember that the freshwater body of water in Galilee is called the "Sea of Galilee. The large body of water that the Sea of Galilee drains into is called the "Dead Sea" In the book of Mormon the ocean is called the "Great Deep". The freshwater lakes in the US are so large you cannot see across them. Taking the fact that the writers of the B of M came from the Middleast they would certainly identify large bodies, whether fresh or salty, seas. When you read the B of M you will find that the first time the narrow neck of land is mentioned is 100 years before Christ. If they landed in Central America, don't you think it would have been mentioned 500 years earlier? Hang in there and follow Moroni's America videos. Jonathan Nevelle's research is outstanding. There is no doubt that it took place in the USA... the promised land. Keep investigating and I believe you will become a believer also.
@jeffreysmith7542
5 жыл бұрын
@@kathryngriffiths2663 I am not completely a believer yet but I will admit that was a great answer. Thanks for the info.
@davus4242
Жыл бұрын
@@kathryngriffiths2663 Part one: To speculate that Mormon (or Joseph) mixed the terminology within the confines of the Book of Mormon is nonsensical. First and foremost, Mormon, knew the difference and never mixed the terms he used when writing and compiling the Book, which is all you need to know. No previous historical use of the word is relevant, period! But, to speak to your misappropriation; if one does a little research on the historical use of sea in relation to Galilee, it paints a clearer understanding. Keeping things in the context of the authors and sources can help. For one example, in the King James version of the Bible, the name or term "Sea of Galilee" does not appear anywhere in the Old Testament, it's not there, which is the time frame Lehi leaves the Middle East; it's not there. It's also not used in the Book of Mormon. The Galilee body of water has had many names for different reasons, at one point, the Romans called it the sea of Tiberius to honor the Emperor, the term sea was synonymous with a roar, noise, dangerous, or power; the term sea was not commonly used for freshwater bodies of water, even in Roman times. Further, the name Sea of Galilee is used for the first time in the New Testament. The New Testament is written many years after the Roman influence, and long after Christ had left, and is produced from many questionable translations of manuscripts that provide different nomenclature. For instance, the author of the Book of Luke refers to it as the Lake of Gennesaret, not the "Sea of Galilee". We could play this game all day. We shouldn't conflate different uses, from different authors, from different time periods, from different sources and translations, all into it meaning a body of water. The chain of custody, the lens of translation, and the compilation arrangement of the New Testament vary. The beauty of the Book of Mormon, is the chain of custody, consisting of Mormon (and his son Moroni), and Joseph. Basically, one author/compiler & one translator into English, both empowered by the same gift of God. Mormon is the author, he compiles the record, it's his narrative, in his terminology. Yes, he does provide actual quotes from some of the records he is in possession of, but it is his him telling the story, from over a thousand years worth of history. You either believe what he claims or you don't. You don't have to wonder when he uses the term sea what he means, he is consistent in his use of the term and never mixes the term with bodies of freshwater; such as the waters of Mormon or the large bodies of water migrating Nephites discovered in the far north of the continent. Mormon, also never conflates the terms he uses for rivers, as seas; he knows the difference and is consistent. Mormon, did not get confused or forget what he called a certain type of body of water, nor did he interchange the terms used for other features of water. He knew a freshwater body of water was not a sea. (ie: waters of Mormon, large bodies of water), He knew a river was a river, no matter how wide it was. Conflating the term "Great deep" with the term sea, to somehow suggest, Mormon wasn't consistent in differentiating his descriptions of sea is ludicrous. He was simply providing additional characteristics of a more unique body of water. For example in Helaman 3, he refers to the Great Lakes as large bodies of water, not seas; he knew the difference, and guess what he was correct, they are not saltwater. Further, Mormon would not mistake a river for a sea; Mormon, knew the difference. He's the one telling the story. Good Grief!! Now in regards to the Narrow neck timeline appearing in the story about 100 BC, are you serious? You do realize, we also don't hear about the land of Zarahemla until about that time. Know why? The Nephites haven't found them yet. Wake up! We don't hear about either of them until King Mosiah 1 sends out explorers and discovers the Mulekites in a place they called the land of Zarahemla, which is where the narrow neck of land is or near. Good grief!! Now, not to anger you, or be contentious, but, Jonathan Nevelle's research, is inaccurate, incomplete, and misleading? Keep in mind, he is selling books!! So there's that. I refer you to the Church's website; research the definition of priestcraft. If you are a humble, honest seeker you will come to realize what Jonathan is doing. If one is a prideful or stiffnecked person or if they've already been bamboozled by his convincing smooth-talking style (that all great con-men have), then one will continue to follow Jonathon at any cost and will keep their head buried in the sands of his mis & disinformation. Ever heard the saying "the very elect will believe a lie". or " It's easier to con someone, than it is to convince them they've been con'd" If one continues to trust and believe Jonathan Nevelle, over Joseph Smith, John Taylor, and Wilford Woodruff (all three presidents), who were there from the beginning of the restoration, then that person has been con'd. I'm not attacking Jonathan as a person, only the mis & dis information he is disseminating and selling, causing good people like yourself to believe a lie. Again remember he is telling a story to sell books. He is good at his craft. Please read part two below, for information you may not have, or what Jonathan may have neglected to mention or clarify. For now, please know, that Jonathan, misrepresents what the Oliver letters are; he hangs his entire belief and theory on a secondhand, uninspired, misrepresentation of history. If you read ALL the letters written by Oliver, you will come to realize how egocentric and uninspired he was. Joseph asked him to write some history, assuming Oliver could handle it, you know since Oliver had been his scribe for the translation and was there for some of the visions. However, like many servants before, Oliver let his pride, ego, and own opinions get in the way; Oliver dropped the ball so to speak. After, hearing of and reading what Oliver had written, it became painfully obvious to Joseph, that Oliver was inept and not up to the task. Case in point, in one letter, Oliver misrepresented and conflates the dates of the first vision and Moroni's visits. When Joseph finds out Oliver had misrepresented the dates and timeline, Joseph has to correct him yet again, to which Oliver retracts the mistake in the next letter. It's a huge debacle, one that anti-Mormons use to this day as propaganda that the story is all made up; "they couldn't get their story straight" or "the story changed and evolved". The truth is, it was a mistake by an inept man. Joseph quickly replaces Oliver for having a history written. The Oliver letters are rife with inaccuracies, some of which Jonathan chooses to use as his basis of misinformation to sell books. Joseph washed his hands of Oliver's letters as they were not an accurate representation of the true history. Another example; in one letter, Oliver, places himself as equal in authority to Joseph and refers to Joseph as "one" of the presidents of the Church. Hello!!! Joseph wasn't one of the presidents, Joseph was the President! Oliver was only an assistant president, not a president, big difference. There are many other inept issues with the letters. Joseph was appalled by what Oliver was producing as a history, and finally had enough, and thus gave the task of writing the history to someone else, and also became more involved himself to make sure it got done correctly, which shows that Joseph was not actually meeting with Oliver and dictating the letters as Jonathon alludes to. When you read the briefly used Oliver contribution attached after Joseph's history in the Pearl of Great Price, it's missing something, it just doesn't have the same spirit to it as Joseph's story and history. If you insist on blindly accepting Jonathon's misrepresentation of misrepresented letters, I encourage you to carefully read all of the letters for yourself, to get a better picture of what went down, and not rely on Jonathan Nevelle's interpretation of the letters. Oliver makes huge mistakes and blunders, which is why Joseph replaces him and why the Church doesn't use the letters, the letters are of no worth, they're junk. Further, keep in mind, not too long after these letters, Oliver became so estranged from Joseph, he was excommunicated for dissension & sedition. Beware of Pride! Part two to follow.
@davus4242
Жыл бұрын
Part Two: The Book of Mormon is another volume of scripture, that testifies of Jesus Christ and His gospel. That's the message of the Book, and it's true! Among the writings of that message, are descriptions of where and when it took place. Mormon, Moroni, and Joseph included all the details necessary. Moroni never referred to the hill, where he buried the plates, as Cumorah. He met with Joseph many, many times for years and never once referred to it as Cumorah. Joseph never mentions Moroni mentioning the name of the hill where he got the plates. In Joseph's history, he names off all the scriptures, places, events, and previous prophets, Moroni mentioned during his visits, surely Moroni knows the name of the hill he knew as Cumorah. Moroni names everything else; why would he not refer to this hill by name?? Because the hill where he buried the plates in, he didn't know by name; he was led to it by the spirit after having wandered for 30+ years, so the plates would be in a constitutionally free country and where Joseph's family would be. Remember, Mormon gave the plates to Moroni at Cumorah and instructed Moroni to am-scram to protect the plates. Moroni carried the plates away from Cumorah, he didn't bury them in Cumorah. Also, keep in mind, Joseph wasn't the one who started calling the hill, Cumorah; other saints did. Nowhere in the BOM or Joseph's histories (pick a version, it doesn't matter) does Joseph or Moroni, ever call the hill in NY, Cumorah. It was Oliver Cowdery and other saints, who first called the hill in NY Cumorah, not Joseph, nor Moroni. Realize, it's a common practice for people to name places after other places. Much like the Saints who settled Utah, naming the predominant mountain South of Utah Lake, Mt. Nebo; it doesn't mean it's the same Mt. Nebo Moses stood upon overlooking the promised land. Good grief. It's an honorary name and it became common vernacular by the Saints to reference the hill where Joseph dug up the plates as Cumorah; they had to call the hill something in conversation. In Joseph's history written in 1838, years after the saints had been calling the hill in NY, the Hill Cumorah, Joseph still doesn't refer to the hill as Cumorah in his history, he has it recorded as "a hill of considerable size", even though by this time, it had become the nomenclature of the saints to refer to the hill, where he got the plates, as Cumorah. The name Cumorah is mentioned in the Book of Mormon as where Moroni received the plates from his father, if the hill in NY is the real BOM Cumorah, the one where Mormon buried all the records, why would Joseph go out of his way to not have the "actual" known name of the hill referenced in his history?? Because Joseph and Moroni, both knew it was not the hill Mormon was at; accuracy matters for the recorded history. Again, the NY hill was originally referred to as Cumorah, first, by other Ladder-day Saints, not Moroni, nor Joseph. Once, the saint had adopted calling the hill in NY, Cumorah, Joseph was fine with the endearing and honorary name, of calling the hill Cumorah in conversations himself, as that's what the saints were used to, as identifying the hill where he received the plates. Thus there is the original BOM Cumorah, which Mormon and Moroni knew, and also an honorary Hill Cumorah in NY, named by the saints. Don't let some theorist inject another narrative other than what is recorded in the official history. It's important to make the distinction. According to the BOM, a New Jerusalem will be built upon this Continent, in the land north of Zarahemla, we know by modern-day revelation, as being more specifically within the current borders of the United States of America, in the current borders of the state of Missouri, at a location currently known as Independence. We also know from the BOM narrative that the Hill called Cumorah by Mormon was north (not east) of the narrow neck of land and in the region of Zarahemla. It's important to remember this when placing Cumorah. Also remember, the New Jerusalem is north of Zarahelma (not west or southwest of Zarahemla) Because the Church's main focus and mission is to proclaim and teach the Gospel of Christ; the BOM & Biblical geography are not topics the Church dwells on, thus many latter-day saints are unaware, Joseph claimed and declared Zarahemla was in Central America; he even put it in writing and published it. If you're interested to know this, google - Times and Seasons October 1, 1842 Zarahemla. Joseph as Editor, along with his assistant editors, Apostles John Taylor & Wilford Woodruff (both would become presidents of the Church themselves), boldly declare as an "important fact" - Zarahemla was in Central America, in the land of Guatemala. That's what Joseph believed, and he printed it, there's no hearsay about it, he printed it. The editors then went on to clarify, they weren't necessarily declaring a specific city, that was previously named and mentioned in a previous edition of the T&S was the city of Zarahemla. But that they are, however, of the opinion that the previously named city was a city mentioned in the Book of Mormon. The name of the city comes from a book of an explorer of Central America. Read the T&S article for the full details. Keep in mind, this secondary clarification of a specific city previously named, does not refute the declared important fact, that Zarahemla was in Central America. Nor does Zarahemla being in Central America diminish Nephites being in the heartland of the north country. In fact, it actually collaborates with the BOM narrative perfectly. Also, know, in the same T&S Oct 1, 1842 edition, the editors (Joseph, John, & Wilford) refute the conspiring claims of other publications in the region, suggesting Joseph had fled the area of Nauvoo and is on the run. Truth is, Joseph was still in the area and still very much editor of what was printed in the T&S Oct 1, 1842; while at the same time avoiding false arrest of conspiring men. Joseph was still around and still very much in charge, as represented & substantiated by the T&S article itself. So a very special thank you, to the editors(Joseph, John, & Wilford), for documenting this, so long ago, and clearing it up for future generations. Joseph knew dissenters would arise! Six weeks later, Joseph, calls John Taylor to replace himself as the new Editor of the Times and Season on November 15, 1842. Logic and common sense dictate, if John Taylor published the Zarahemla claim on his own, without Joseph's consent, and Joseph didn't agree with it, would Joseph have promoted John to Editor? Further, if Joseph didn't oversee the publication of the October 1, 1842 edition, and disagreed with the bold declaration, Joseph would have had it retracted. Joseph did not have it retracted, as he is the one who published it. Truth is, Joseph was Editor and owns the declaration, that Zarahemla is in Central America. You either trust Joseph or you don't. Next, go to the Church's website and search - Book of Mormon Geography. The church takes no stance on the exact location of BOM cities because no exact locations have been revealed. However, in the same statement, they do acknowledge Joseph's beliefs on the subject, and further, confirm and substantiate Joseph as Editor of the Times & Seasons in 1842 for the articles referring to Book of Mormon lands and Central America. Very interesting indeed. Don't let anyone trick you into thinking Joseph wasn't Editor and in charge of the T&S in Oct of 1842. Joseph, never provided the exact location of Zarahemla, only the general area of it being in Central America, within the borders of Guatemala as he would have known it in his day, via widely available published maps. For additional & interesting collaboration on what Joseph would have known Guatemala to be in his day, google - "map of Guatemala 1825" (or 1835) open a properly labeled map, and notice Guatemala's borders back in Joseph's day, extended as far north to include the Chiapas & Palenque areas of modern-day Mexico. Say what! A very interesting area indeed! Long before any scholar pronounce their own theory as to the location of BOM lands, Joseph had already declared it to be Central America. No scholars or theories needed to narrow down the general area, Joseph did it for us. All things considered, it all fits. Does the BOM accommodate Joseph's comment of "plains of the Nephites" and the Zelph stories? Yes, in fact, these stories actually collaborate with the BOM narrative masterfully. In Alma 63 and Helaman 3:3-5,12-16 it states many groups of Nephites left Zarahemla/Bountiful and migrated to the north country, both by land and by sea. This also accounts for how Zelph and other descendants of converted Lamanites were in the northern country during the last struggles. Remember these Nephites departed FROM the lands of Zarahenla and Bountiful, aka the main storyline of the Book of Mormon land. Also note, there is a sea, not just land, between Zarahemla, and the New Jerusalem in the north country. So yes, there are plains of Nephites in the heartland of the north country, since before Christ. It's all accounted for in the BOM. There are no contradictions by Joseph, and no mental gymnastics are required to see that it all fits the book's narrative. Joseph's plains of the Nephites comment, along with the Zelph story all collaborate with the BOM account. There are even statements in the BOM narrative that signal there was commerce trade happening between the main storyline Book of Mormon land Nephites of Zarahemla/Bountiful and the migrant Nephites groups in the north country. It's all in the book. The book itself, says we will find evidence of Nephite cultures in the heartland of North America, no surprise there, however, the northern Nephite evidence we find, is not evidence of the main BOM Nephite lands of Zarahemla and Bountiful where the prophets Nephi through Mormon dwelt. Now you know! You can't say you weren't informed.
@rayrichey527
3 жыл бұрын
i can not understand the narrator. he is speaking to softly. is there a transcript?
@BMTPotatohead314
2 жыл бұрын
How do you reconcile that nephi’s records were buried at hill cumorah while the Book of Mormon was buried afterwards elsewhere by moroni
@gregseljestad2793
6 жыл бұрын
Nice job. I’m thinking attrition is the only way the mesoamerica model will go away. Not sure why the mean responses, I love this church.
@ForgivenessGuide
6 жыл бұрын
I've personally visited mounds in the eastern U.S. that seemed to be crafted after descriptions of Nephite communities in Alma 48-50, including protective mounds of dirt and pickets of timbers on top. In the visitor center of at least one state park (Etowah Mounds in Tennessee), is a thin plate of brass discovered at the site, indicating the abilities and practices of the inhabitants who knew how to create thin sheets of metal for decoration and for writing. I'm just saying, look around. Don't just repeat what others say. Do your own investigation. There is PLENTY of evidence.
@oliverdownunder9397
6 жыл бұрын
Chuck Chamberlain This is COMPLETELY dismissed by the Smithsonian Institute... if you want to believe something you’re going to believe it regardless of all the evidence to the contrary and common sense. The mormon religion is complete junk
@SmoothRuffian
6 жыл бұрын
Oliver Downunder You can't just dismiss evidence you don't like. It doesn't matter what the Smithsonian says. American archeologists are proving to be a disgrace to their own science as they are dismissing many pieces of evidence that doesn't fit their traditional narrative of a land bridge, and the racist belief that the white man graced the Native Americans with things like horses. Hebrew artifacts existed here before Columbus. Same with Vikings. These are not fake, so find another way to dismiss the evidences other than the Smithsonian doesn't recognize...
@oliverdownunder9397
6 жыл бұрын
More Mormon mumbo jumbo…you trying to provide evidence to back the book of mormon is like trying to back Goldie Locks and the Three bears. What are YOUR credentials to dismiss the Smithsonian one of the worlds most respected scientific organizations? You mormons live in your little bubble mumbling to each other that you Know de church is twoo and having your children bear their brainwashed induced testimony from the womb. The only 'Evidence' exists inside the mormon bubble where you can all sit around and believe the complete fantasy of mormonism and the charlatan and pedophile joseph smith. To the rest of the world you are the laughing stock….you don't have one piece of credible archeological, anthropological, linguistic or DNA evidence to support the silliest 'religion' on earth. You discredit the bible and use it as a prop so that you can sell mormonism arguably the biggest religious hoax of the modern age. For those of you reading this exchange I've included a link to a video below on DNA evidence that provides some reality to this mormon twaddle kzitem.info/news/bejne/16SwwH-lhn2piG0
@SmoothRuffian
6 жыл бұрын
Sure is too bad you can't seem to shake the Church.
@oliverdownunder9397
6 жыл бұрын
riingram I have never been a mormon...never been that gullible or prepared to ignore the intellect God gave me (and everyone else).
@millardhixson7217
5 жыл бұрын
The background noise is very distracting.
@larryanderson7217
6 жыл бұрын
Any past battlefield where 200,000 people fought , even today there would have been artifact, I don't know what he dreamed.....
@utahbac9882
6 жыл бұрын
Larry Anderson if that many died proof would be found all over the place.
@michaelgrey7854
5 жыл бұрын
No bones, no nothing. But i guess God could have whisked them up to heaven :)
@davidstout6051
6 жыл бұрын
The Mexican/Central America theory is clearly based on the presence of Mayan ruins, not any continuity with Smith's clear understanding of things. The North American idea is the only one that really does Justice to even the most basic rules of historical research. I say this as someone well schooled in history and as a non Mormon who has no horse in this race. Your prophet was more scholarly than your scholar.
@anonb4632
6 жыл бұрын
David Stout The Mayans are from North America. North America finishes in Panama, not at the Rio Grande.
@davidstout6051
6 жыл бұрын
Anon B Of course. My mistake.
@KevlarX2
6 жыл бұрын
Wow, really showing everyone how "Christian" you are with such language.
@KevlarX2
6 жыл бұрын
Okay, showing everyone what a angry small brained atheist you are. Either way.
@joseesparza5616
5 жыл бұрын
I'm still looking for the artifacts of this huge civilization such as the kind you find in present day Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, Iraq, and Iran. Not to mention the rest of the world in which great civilizations existed.
@KensOfficeUSA
7 жыл бұрын
Thanks. Just what I was looking for.
@artheis1342
5 жыл бұрын
I have been to Cumorah I have seen the battle in my mind as I prayed there, It was Cumorah. The scholars are rebuked by Joseph Smith and these men need to re-examine from what source their "witness" came from.
@michaelgrey7854
5 жыл бұрын
Did you find any evidence of the massive battle that took place there with Millions dying? Any bones?
@kkdoc7864
5 жыл бұрын
A final BATTLE. LOL. where is the evidence?
@haidermann1
5 жыл бұрын
all over that place
@MormonFacts
5 жыл бұрын
@@haidermann1 Do you have a link to a source showing archaeological evidence of a battle surrounding the Hill Cumorah?
@haidermann1
5 жыл бұрын
@@MormonFacts yes I can put some together for you
@citizenreporter_nate
4 жыл бұрын
In the Book of Mormon.
@darrisellis8810
4 жыл бұрын
It is all over or was all over the Eastern States! The Beaker, Hopewell and Adena Cultures are all proof. Tens of thousands of artifacts were submitted to the Smithsonian Institute in the 18th and 19th centuries and either destroyed or suppressed. E.G. Squire surveyed thousands of ancient fort structures before they were lost to farmers clearing the land for crops. If you are willing to do some research and your heart and mind are open and sincere you will find all the evidence one might ask for. However without faith you will never believe regardless of indisputable evidence!
@GAILandROD
7 жыл бұрын
Thank you! Well done.
@travismoffat5594
3 жыл бұрын
Really interesting! Wish the audio were clearer, though 😕 someone give him a budget so he can make this viral 😁👍
@deskjockie4948
5 жыл бұрын
Why doesn't the "Prophet, Seer, and Revelator" simply ask the Lord where the Book of Mormon lands were located and then tell the church? All the controversy and conflict among the scholars would be put to rest.
@kathryngriffiths2663
5 жыл бұрын
I wonder the same thing. Now they have basically said: No Comment. Hmmmmm.
@goanddo2371
4 жыл бұрын
There have always been those who ask why the prophet doesn't do this? Why doesn't God do that, or why does He allow... ? In my mind, WHERE the Book of Mormon happened matters as much as where did the dinosaurs go? If someone REALLY wants to know maybe they can build a close enough relationship with God and ask Him themselves =o) It's too bad how many people strain at a gnat... is that the term? If all problems were solved for us and all questions were easily given to us there would be little room for growth. Jesus teaching in parables so that people would also learn at their own level and speed also comes to mind, but so do a lot of other things =o)
@deniset8981
4 жыл бұрын
@@kathryngriffiths2663 Because the book is not about geography its about obtaining a testimony of the Savior. If knowing whether this is the true Cumorah or not will make all the difference about the Book of Mormon or the Church then you probably should move on. Cause your probably going to have to take it to the Lord yourself and your going to need faith for that.
@philandrews2860
4 ай бұрын
Because that kind of information is not meant to be revealed, as the Book of Mormon is meant primarily to be a matter of faith, not physical evidence, in the same way that a knowledge of God and God's true attributes is also meant to be a personal matter of faith. However, if such a revelation was ever given, I'm afraid that many folks would leave the church, including much of the current Heartlander movement, as they seem to believe more in past statements of earlier church leaders rather than in much more recent statements from our current church leadership, who they seem to think have been led astray. So if the current church leadership comes out with something the Heartlanders think disagrees with what they 'know' from previous church leaders, they will likely not believe it and think that the current church leadership has apostatized.
@johntresize202
5 жыл бұрын
I totally believed the S.+central American theory. My eyes are open now...thanks
@johntresize202
5 жыл бұрын
The biggest 'Proof' for me is that all of the Temples and bldgs. in Central/South America ALL have steps to the altar AND were hewn, Ie; cut, Shaped by man, Which was forbidden by the Lord But if you look at all the 'mound builders' Temples, You'll see Ramps...NO steps. The ramps leading to a large rock or pile of... Ex 20; 25-26
@raminazimi4978
4 жыл бұрын
@@johntresize202 I was about to mention this. Also they have found temple alters with ramps here in the United states. The Hopewell mounds are showing that there were Hebrew artifacts, Smelted Iron and Copper, and places are being uncovered that match events taken place in the BoM.
@jerrodwertman9494
3 жыл бұрын
@@johntresize202 YES!! What a breath of fresh air to see your comment here! I have shared this scripture many times over the years, and have never seen anyone able to refute this. In fact, I have seen a lot of "aha!" moments when other LDS read this scripture. This scripture, in and of itself, shows ALL Central & South American Mayan, Incan, Aztec, Olmec, take your pick, to be PAGAN. Period. End of story. Also, in Ex 20:24, you will see God's preferred building material for an altar unto him: Earth. What's curious is that you will find almost NO stone altars. It seems that they were purists, and strictly adhered to the law. Since the first recommendation was to build an "altar of earth", it only makes sense that They would choose earth over stone. The Nephites, who repeatedly claim in the Book of Mormon to strictly observe the Law of Moses, Could not worship in such Pagan, ritually unclean temples. Also, there's the problem of no pre-conquistador grapes, sheep, wheat and barley in MesoAmerica. The is no possible way the Nephites could "strictly observe" the Law of Moses in MesoAmerica. The Law of Moses is the smoking gun that completely disproves the Mesoamerican Book of Mormon location, and also points the finger toward the only portion of the Americas that could allow for a strict and complete observance of Mosaic law: North America, specifically the geographic regions in and directly around the borders of the United States. There very well could have been a post-genocidal migration (After the Battle at Cumorah) of the mixture of seed of Lehi into the west and Southwest of the US, and into Mexico and even parts of Central America. It seems not only plausible, but probable.
@johntresize202
3 жыл бұрын
@@jerrodwertman9494 and vice-versa, The Aztecs migrating up.
@jerrodwertman9494
3 жыл бұрын
@@johntresize202 Like you, I believed in Mesoamerican BOM geography because it's in so much church artwork, taught by church scholars, and in Church produced media. I even went out of my way to get my hands on rare, expensive treatises on links between Central America, Mayans and the Book of Mormon. A turning point for me actually came when I visited the ruins on the Yucatan peninsula, and got the opposite of a spiritual confirmation - I got a horrible feeling that awful things had happened in these ruins, and throughout those places. Not what I'd expected. But still, I dismissed it until recently. I have Cherokee and Choctaw Ancestry, as well as ancient tidewater Algonquin, from a recent DNA test. I started checking out Native oral histories. What the Seneca, Cree, Cherokee, Cheyenne, Shawnee, Navajo and Hopi tribes have to say in the oral traditions would just about blow your mind. Many of those can be found in Michael P's youtube channel, but a missionary - a traveling 70, commissioned by President Kimball, also uncovered some accounts that should lay all arguments to rest. F. Murray Rawson was his name, I believe.
@karenaller9234
3 жыл бұрын
It's too bad the narrator is so boring and speaks so low that I can barely hear him. The presentation needs to be more interesting. Too many unneeded comments are distracting. Other than that I'm sure the subject matter is probably very good. I'd take a public speaking class if I were you.
@MustangWriter
7 жыл бұрын
In my previous postings I came across rather flippant as if we are just sitting in my living room and I was just carrying on a conversation. NOW I will get scholarly. One last thing... and then I'll be quiet and leave everyone to their own opinion. (It's hard for me to let serious errors go by) After Hagoth sailed up to today's Guatemala (Hagoth built MANY shipS as in plural; Helaman 3;14 ) Some of his people settled that area (Central America; ruins) and others migrated up thru Mexico. Since sailing records were not kept, we must study archeological discoveries (The Inscribed Stone, Nephite Altar, and Zelph the white "Nephite" ) we see that more of Hagoth's ships continued across the Gulf of Mexico to the mouth of the Mississippi River. By following this river northward the descendants of these South American peoples would've found new land in the North American Continent (re; The Hopewell civilization) Evidence has been found in land sections not far from the Miss. River; an example being the an inscribed stone found in Bat Creek, Tennessee. Cyrus H. Gordon Professor of Mediterranean Studies at Brandeis University said the writing on that stone was like that of ancient Canaan; the Israelite's 'promised land'. Note Nephi said "I make a record in the language of my father..." (1 Nephi 1:2). The inscribed stone is strong evidence of the origin of the people who buried it. Nephite Altar or Tower is more archeological evidence of migration further up the Mississippi and west of Davies County. Zelph: Wars and contentions plagued the N. American inhabitants. The remains of Zelph were found by members of Zion's Camp on a trek from Ohio to Missouri. THIS IS THE REASON YOU ERR: The story of Zelph is worded differently in the current edition of The Documentary History of the Church. A careful examination of a microfilm copy of the ORIGINAL entry in the Prophet's journal, which indicates that the 1904 edition correctly reproduces the prophets words WHEREAS SUBSEQUENT AND CURRENT EDITIONS DO NOT. The words "Hill Cumorah" and "the last great struggle of the Lamanites and Nephites" in the current edition ARE NOT IN THE ORIGINAL text by the Prophet Joseph. Zelp was killed during "a" great struggle with the Lamanites. This does NOT convey that he was killed in the FINAL struggle with the Lamanites. Now, this is where the premise of this video SCHOLARS VS PROPHETS is correct: CHURCH SCHOLARS MADE A GREVIOUS MISTAKE. And by following those scholars YOU have made a serious mistake. Notice too that in the Prophet's words... Onandagus was known from the EastERN sea to the Rockies., not from Nephi's EAST SEA to the WEST SEA. A major geographical difference. Traditions state that the ancient home of Mexicans is Aztlan or "Place of the Reeds" This would indicate the area that Hagoth built his reed ships. Mexicans or rather Aztecs may very well be the decendants of the Anti-Lehi-Nephis and later the people of Ammon. Matthew Crowley the apostle, while serving his mission among the Maori people asked them where did they come from? Their response: "From the land where the sweet potato grows wild" Sweet potatoes were cultivated by the Incas of S. America; the native home of the sweet potato. Everything I have 'scholarly' written is in completely in line with the words of the Prophets and has been submitted for discernment reading to the education of my brethren. Other opinions here are BASED on church SCHOLARS who interpreted Joseph Smith's diary in error. As for me... I go with the Prophets.
@woolbe-x5y
6 жыл бұрын
It's sad to know that the LDS church is sending people to hell. The church knows this but tradition is a hard egg to crack. Has anyone considered the fact that the prophet of the church never, ever says anything about world events? Why would his god only be the god of the LDS? Cognitive dissonance runs abound in the LDS church.
@rmhutchins7
6 жыл бұрын
and the DNA shows that the Aztecs, Incas, Peruvians, Mexicans, etc. are from Asia -- not Jerusalem! The truth is that the Hill Cumorah never existed -- anywhere. Wait, . . . I take that back, I think they found a Hill Cumorah on the moon!
@byronofcalgary6985
6 жыл бұрын
WOW - you can get "scholarly" AND comment on "Zelph, the white Lamanite" ? ? - white as in he didn't "change color" ? or he "changed back" ? ? - let's settle that before we go looking for Lamanites...
@MustangWriter
5 жыл бұрын
@@woolbe-x5y Actually A LOT is said about world events by ancient and modern prophets of the Church of Jesus Christ. You just don't know where to look. Adam-Ondi-Ahman comes immediately to mind; something you gentiles would never know.
@byronofcalgary6985
5 жыл бұрын
@@MustangWriter - just what Mormonism needs - - comedy - - you are actually going to put in print your bizarre remark "you gentiles..." - - oh man - go get a DNA test - you ain't Jewish - you ain't even a Lamanite
@MrArtist7777
6 жыл бұрын
Great video, thanks! No doubt, the Book of Mormon lands are primarily in the heartland of the U.S. as Joseph Smith testified and ample evidence proves. The U.S. is not perfect but it is the land of liberty and the nation for the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. The only reason we have the Book of Mormon is from revelation from God, which same revelation testified that the U.S. is the ancient Nephite, Lamanite and Jaredite land.
@oliverdownunder9397
6 жыл бұрын
Russell Fine Arts Hahahahahahahaha....ample evidence ......you’re cracking us up...such as ? You people are staggeringly gullible....
@KevlarX2
6 жыл бұрын
I'm with ya Russell Fine Arts.
@byronofcalgary6985
6 жыл бұрын
Russel - it's far easier to find the site of the barn where Smith banged Fanny Alger after sending her parents away - why not invite them to the "wedding" and let them give away their 15 year old daughter ? - why not invite wife Emma to the Nuptials ? - why does LDS declare war on America's Gov't ? because it banned Polygamy - no love of USA in Utah is there ?
@oliverdownunder9397
6 жыл бұрын
byronofcalgary Brilliant! Hahahahahahahaha
@richardholmes7199
5 жыл бұрын
@@oliverdownunder9397 Typical uncalled for anti-Mormon.
@SuperDuppydoo
3 жыл бұрын
TY for your information. However it’s very difficult to hear you at times, it gets muffled and slurred as it sounds like you may be moving away from the mike, and or running out of breath. It’s very difficult to do research on the items you list as there is only a slight moment, short photo, and run on sentences, that are not very clear. Your soft spoken and rapid speech makes this very hard to hear and follow. Slow down, speak into the Mike, and post references please! Thank you!
@byronofcalgary6985
3 жыл бұрын
does it seem odd.... that a Seer who gets paid to look for Treasure... but never finds any... comes up with a book that puts more treasure in his neighborhood than anywhere else on Earth ? ...a little retirement scheme ? ?
@3dfymyworld484
2 жыл бұрын
About the real location of the battle Cumorah and the hiding plates Cumorah, there are many arguments, but I find it funny that people from the US wants to appropriate BoM history that CLEARLY happened in Mexico and South America. Not only from hundreds of ancient ruins, of which there are virtually NONE in US territory, to Apostles confirming the landing location of Lehi's party in west South America. Good try, but any person that studies the maps and ruins can clearly see that 99.99% of the events in the BoM happened OUTSIDE the US.
@michaelcolley7660
5 жыл бұрын
I have felt very uncomfortable for many years with the concept of the Book of Mormon lands being in Mesoamerica. I have a firm testimony that central America is where it all happened. However, there is a strong possibility that portions of both Lamanites and to a smaller degree that the Nephites migrated south. Also, after Christ visited the people in central America did He not state that "Other sheep I have which are not of the fold ..........." would he not have also visited those in Mesoamerica and South America? In addition, when Lehi and his family left the shores to go to the promised land the ocean currents would have carried them down the East coast of Africa, round Cape of Good Hope and upwards towards the southern part of Central America. Going eastward would have been impossible (look up ocean currents on the internet). It goes much deeper but not enough time/room to explain here.
@copisetic1104
3 жыл бұрын
Always learning and never coming to the truth. Scholar’s sometimes are over educated idiots.
@BenMcrea61
Жыл бұрын
Joseph Smith knew where the Book of Mormon history took place - and he said it took place in North America. End of argument.
@philandrews2860
4 ай бұрын
Show me where there is a unequivocal direct revelation in this regard, to Joseph Smith, and you might have a point. Our current church leadership is completely neutral on this topic. Would that really be the case if such information had actually been revealed to Joseph Smith? Or perhaps you think our current church leadership is deluded in that regard? I would hope that is not the case. Also, I don't believe the Lord will reveal this type of information until His 2nd coming, as the Book of Mormon is meant primarily a matter of faith in God and in personal revelation from God as to its veracity. We can (and do) find supporting evidences from archaeological findings, but we are misguided if we think we can find absolute proof in these kinds of evidences, including interpretations of past statements of earlier church leaders, including Joseph Smith, by interpreting them in such a way to suppose there was a direct revelation in such matters that are supposed to be primarily a matter faith in God, between ourselves and God.
@iconacy
6 жыл бұрын
Nephites and Lamanites were always American not Mexican. I have always had a hard time convincing myself that the book of Mormon took place in central and south america just didnt make any sense.
@herlysarmiento9863
5 жыл бұрын
12 minutes of full video proof to arrive the same conclusion kids sing in primary in 5 seconds: “ Follow the prophet, he knows the way”.
@nathandalley318
Жыл бұрын
The Book of Mormon is the word of God along with The Holy Bible. Good video.
@richarner3856
Күн бұрын
The Book of Mormon is a fraud authored by Pedophile Peepstone Joe
@georgeking6356
6 жыл бұрын
I am fascinated by any investigation of Book of Mormon sites etc. but, please my friends, do not make this a point of contention. Such things are so destructive of testimony and civility. Eventually we will know the answers to these things. When thought necessary official statements will come from the Lord Himself via the church leadership. Anything that divides us pleases the adversary. Let us not use subjects like this one to create division.
@MrArtist7777
6 жыл бұрын
There shouldn't be any division or confusion on this matter of Book of Mormon geography. That's exactly what this video shows--that revelation from God to his prophet marked exactly where the Book of Mormon lands were. It's John L. Sorenson and others who have tried to force a false narrative of Mesoamerica geography. Similar to skeptics denying Jesus every lived, they deny the truth from God's prophets. John Sorenson and other Mesoamerican theorists just need to repent and come to the truth and we can move away from this false Mesoamerican theory.
@oliverdownunder9397
6 жыл бұрын
George King You sound just like that mormon stooge Cheri Dew! Hahahahahahahaha.
@SmoothRuffian
6 жыл бұрын
Oliver DampUnderpants, you are one serious troll. So sad. Get a job.
@oliverdownunder9397
6 жыл бұрын
riingram No ...they’re quite dry though I do want to pee myself laughing when you try to prop up any credible evidence that backs the ridiculous book of mormon. (Notice no capital letters there..it doesn’t deserve them). Mormonism is a culturally entrenched hoax. I’f I’m a troll for trying to lead people away from a bogus religion that pilfers 10% of people’s money and belongings so they can get a ticket to those absurd temples and therefore be with God then I’ll be happy to feature as the head troll in the next lord of the rings instalment!
@philandrews2860
4 ай бұрын
@@MrArtist7777 - The main reason for this division is caused by the main Heartland proponents/authors who subtly accuse those who don't believe their theory of Book of Mormon geography, of apostasy. They won't say it outright, but they insinuate it subtly, and knowingly fail to correct their fans when they are blatantly open and frank about expressing such an opinion. How can there be lack of contention when one side makes such an accusation (or insinuation)? And yet, ironically, these same folks accuse the ones they accuse of apostasy of being the ones starting and maintaining the contention? Hypocritical? In my readings of scholars who comment on the Heartland Model, the number one problem is this false accusation/insinuation of apostasy, and all the rhetoric that attends it, not so much the Heartland theory in and of itself, though 'pseudo science' also plays a major part (probably the 2nd biggest problem they have with it).
@richardbarrow4620
Жыл бұрын
The hill Cumorah may not be the Hill Cumorah unless there is a layer of arrow heads and food preparation stones. I suppose subsequent generations could have recycled them. As an example, the largest find of "Nephite" era stone artifacts ever recovered came out of a swamp in I believe Georgia. Thousands of food preparation stones and a layer of arrow heads. I don't think these people were indigenous to that swamp or left countless thousands of arrowheads and stone kitchen utenciles laying around. Look for another hill in the area with the requisite layer of arrow heads and other stone implements.
@richardchristianson2823
4 жыл бұрын
Scholars -- ever learning and never coming to a knowledge of the truth.
@chaotickreg7024
3 жыл бұрын
Evangelicals: having faith but never learning
@heberfrank8664
4 жыл бұрын
As I understand it, here are a few of the MAJOR problems with the North American models: 1. its Hill Cumorah is SOUTH of the narrow neck of land. Every "internal model" of BoM lands (just based on the text) ALWAYS has the hill Cumorah at the North end of the land northward. 2. Its Niagara isthmus narrow neck has seas to North and South of it -- not to East and West as the BoM clearly says. 3. Its narrow strip of wilderness does not have seas with seashores at the two ends of it as the BoM clearly says. 4 Its Sea West is more than 300 miles over land from its narrow neck. So Hagoth could not build ships at its narrow neck of land and launch them directly into the Sea West as the BoM clearly says. 5. If one can believe that the seed of Lehi is among the Polynesians there is no way that a ship built at their narrow neck of land could go to Polynesia before locks were built on the St Lawrence river in our day. www.2bc.info/Misc/Evidences.pdf
@nicholasgailey1486
4 жыл бұрын
While I have recently also come to the conclusion the Hill Cumorah is THE Hill Cumorah of the Book of Mormon. In the end we don't need to know the exact locations to know if Book of Mormon(or any scriptures for that matter) is true. And it is definitely not pertinent to our salvation.
@petrisalonen4893
2 жыл бұрын
So why doesn't BOM mention SNOW ❄️ not even once? Where are the many huge cities and temples and churches and synagogues mentioned multiple times in BOM and cities built with cement? Where are the battlefields where up to at least 2 million people or more were killed according to BOM? Why did the horses get extinct in 400 AD if Americas were full of horses? Horses came after Columbus found America. Where are the remains of sheep and pig farming and remains of cows and oxens etc.? Indians loved horses instantly when introduced to them about 1600, se if they had horses for 1000 years 600BC to 400 AD why no remains of them and no depictions in art or sculpture in that 1000 years period?
@richarner3856
Күн бұрын
Because the Book of Mormon itself is a snow job
@GarySaint-xm6tr
Жыл бұрын
Amazingly the exact geographic explaination of the war for Zarahemla only exits at mile 369.5 of the Mississippi River. See battle for Zarahemla BC 87.
@davus4242
Жыл бұрын
This video takes everything out of context, then slices and dices pieces to give the appearance of something it’s not. It’s deceptive in presentation and claim. It’s false. There are plenty of actual first-hand Joseph publications and statements; no need to use secondhand unreliable hearsay letters of Oliver, who is the one who started referring to the hill where Joseph received the plates as Cumorah. The Oliver letters are not a reliable source to locate anything; Oliver couldn't even keep the first vision and Moroni events and dates separate; he totally conflated the two into one event, Joseph had to point it out and correct him, to which Oliver had to write a correction in his next letter; which goes to show Joseph didn't dictate or approve the information for the letters before they were sent. Oliver made a huge debacle, one that antis use to this day as "proof" the story is all made up and just evolved as needed. Another, debacle of misinformation, In one of the letters Oliver put himself on the same level of authority, referring to Joesph as one of the presidents of the Church when Joesph was the president of the Church. Oliver was simply an assistant president. There was no co-presidency. Oliver is an unreliable source when it comes to the history of the Church or the location of BOM lands. Shortly after these atrocious Oliver letters of disinformation were written, Joseph comes to realize, that Oliver is inept and removes Oliver of writing the history, Oliver just couldn't handle the task. Not to mention not too long after that, Oliver was excommunicated for dissension and sedition. When locating the BOM lands, aka Zarahemla and Bountiful, I recommend sticking with the BOM narrative and Joseph's insights, as Joseph is the expert who met with many of the Prophets and had visions of the cities and cultures. A few things to consider, first and foremost, read the Book of Mormon and take notes of the geographical details given, especially some of the big cornerstone descriptions found in Alma 22, Alma 63, Helaman 3 to name a few. They are there for a reason, Mormon and Moroni, provide a plethora of descriptive details of the geography in the book's narrative. Why?? Mormon was condensing a thousand years of records, why did he use so precious & limited space of the plates, to describe landscape?? It’s to collaborate the story contained within the book. Regarding Cumorah, Moroni never refers to the hill where he buried the plates, as Cumorah, never! Why is that? Did he forget the name of the hill while wandering? Even his father Mormon, tells us where he hid all the other records (in Cumorah) all except the plates he gave Moroni. Why would Moroni; who gives us other geographical details; not mention where he hides the record like his father did the other records? Hint: He didn’t know the name of the hill; the hill was new to him. Over the course of 30+ years, he had wandered to the hill, far from his homeland. Further, Joseph didn't refer to the hill, where he found the plates, as Cumorah either; not until many years later and not until after other Latter-Day Saints such as Oliver first started calling it Cumorah. It's just that; a name applied to the hill by the early members, not by Moroni, not by Joseph. They needed to refer to the hill in conversation as something other than the hill, it was an endearing name to refer to the hill where Joseph got the plates. It became a permanent part of the Saint's vernacular. The Saints did the same type of thing when they developed a city across the river from Nauvoo and named it Zarahemla (and no it's not the Zarahemla location if the BOM, the one burnt at the Savior's crucifixion). They did the same type of thing when the arrived in Utah. Such as naming the Jordan River, City Bountiful, City Moab, City Nephi, City Lehi, City Moroni, City of Manti, City of Ephraim, City Goshen, City of Salem, and Mount Nebo, get the picture! The hill near Palmyra is no more the actual hill Cumorah, than, Mount Nebo, south of Utah lake, is the same Mount Nebo Moses stood upon looking over the promised land of Israel. Good grief! No, it's not a pin in a map as falsely claimed in the video. Just because the early saints started calling it Cumorah, doesn't mean it's the same Hill Cumorah where Mormon says he hid the rest of the records. Mormon 6:6 Remember, Moroni departed from Cumorah with the plates, he did not wander to Cumorah with the plates; he wandered to a place unknown to him (known today as a hill in up-state New York, near the town of Palmyra), where he buried the plates in the earth. He says in the BOM I bury them in the earth. He didn’t know where he would end up burying the plates, he was on the run for 30+ years, and tells us he writes more as he can. Mormon 8:4-8, then Moroni 1. The whole continent had become a war zone after Mormon died and after the battle at Cumorah, Cumorah was the last fight in the region of Zarahemla, not the entire continent. Read Moroni's updates on the seen all across the continent. There is so much more!! Any statement, made outside of the BOM, must align with the narrative of the book or the statement is either incomplete, false, or misunderstood. If a statement is valid, it must reconcile with the book’s narrative, not invalidate the book's narrative. Remember, since before 100 BC when Mosiah interpreted the record of the Jaredites and mentioned this wonderful choice land where a New Jerusalem will be built, many Nephites, Mulekites, Lamanites, departed out of the land and continued to migrate over the centuries to this choice north country, and then filled the whole face of the continent from coast to coast; this is what the BOM narrative tells us. Keep in mind they left from the BOM lands of Zarahemla & Bountiful to go to this new choice land in the north. Those migrators and their descendants, also have a history, which hasn’t been published at this time. However, we have been given glimpses of it (Helaman 3, & also collaborates Joseph's comments of "walking the plains of the Nephites" & Zelph story). The north country is not the land of Zarahemla & Bountiful where the prophets Nephi through Mormon dwelt. We know by the book's narrative that the hill of Cumorah is near the narrow neck of land and Zarahemla. If the hill in NY is the BOM Cumorah, where does that place the location of the New Jerusalem to be built? Canada?? See the problem yet? More on that later. Joseph’s authentic personal publications & statements, when viewed all together, and through the lens of the full narrative of the BOM, will fit and align with the BOM narrative. All pieces and details, need to be accurately accounted for, not discounted or ignored. Details such as the actual Hill Cumorah, is north of the narrow neck of land, not east of it. Further, details such as the Sidon River headwaters come from the mountainous wilderness between the lowlands of the Nephite and high lands of the Lamanite and thus flow north to the sea, not south. The Mississippi is not Sidon, it doesn't fit the BOM narrative. Now here’s a biggy; the north country where the New Jerusalem will be built (aka independence) is north of the narrow neck of land, we could even accept northward, but not south, not southward, not west, not westward, not east, not eastward. The BOM says north country, yes north of the land of Zarahemla, which is near the narrow neck of land. Question, if the narrow neck of land is between any of the Great Lakes (take your pick), and any one of the Great Lakes is the "sea" the migrating Nephites sailed away from Bountiful & Zarahemla on (Alma 63); where does that put the New Jerusalem?? Canada. There's a glaring huge problem with this video's claim. No amount of mental gymnastics can overcome this. These are just a few of the issues, there are many more. Using the incorrect narrative of this video, demolishes the actual narrative from the BOM itself. The Book of Mormon is true! Any statement outside the BOM must agree with the actual narrative in the book, or the outside statement is incomplete or inaccurate. The good news is, when you have all the information and facts of the big picture, all the pieces of the puzzle fit and are quite understandable. Continue in part two
@davus4242
Жыл бұрын
Part two: The Church's main focus and mission is to proclaim and teach the Gospel of Christ; BOM & Biblical geography are not topics the Church dwells on, thus many latter-day saints are unaware Joseph claimed and declared Zarahemla was in Central America; he even put it in writing and published it. If you're interested in historical facts, google - Times and Seasons October 1, 1842 Zarahemla. Joseph as Editor, along with his assistant editors, Apostles John Taylor & Wilford Woodruff (both of whom would become presidents of the Church), boldly declare as an "important fact" - Zarahemla was in Central America, in the land of Guatemala. To substantiate the claim and declaration, Joseph, being very familiar with the details of the BOM, quotes and rehearses Alma 22 describing the region where Zarahemla was. This is what Joseph felt and believed, and he published it, there's no hearsay about it. True story look it up. The editors, as a united group, then went on to clarify, they weren't declaring an exact or specific city mentioned in an explorer's book, that had previously been named and discussed in a previous edition of the T&S, as the city of Zarahemla. They didn't feel impressed to declare that specific city sited as the city Zarahemla, only that Zarahemla was somewhere in Central America. However, they (Joseph, John, & Wilford) are of the opinion that the previously named city, was a city of the Book of Mormon, just not Zarahemla. Read the T&S article for the full details. Keep in mind, this secondary clarification of a specific city previously named as not being Zarahemla, does not contradict or dissolve the declared important fact, that Zarahemla was in Central America. They don't provide the exact location but do narrow it down to the borders of Guatemala known at the time of publication. The important fact of Zarahemla being in Central America fits and collaborates with the BOM narrative. You either trust Joseph or you don't. To attempt to speculate this declaration away is futile. Also, know, in the same T&S Oct 1, 1842 edition, the editors (Joseph, John, & Wilford) refute the conspiring claims, suggesting Joseph had fled the area of Nauvoo and is on the run. Truth is, Joseph was still in the area and still very much editor of what was published in the T&S Oct 1, 1842; while at the same time avoiding false arrest of conspiring men. Read the full edition, Joseph was still around and still very much in charge, as represented & substantiated by the T&S article itself. So a very special thanks to the editors(Joseph, John, & Wilford), for documenting this conspiracy so long ago and clearing it up for future generations. Joseph was Editor until November 15, 1842, a full six weeks after Joseph makes the declaration that Zarahemla is in Central America; at which time Joseph steps aside as Editor and appoints John Taylor as the new Editor of the Times and Season. Logic and common sense dictate "if" John Taylor had published the Zarahemla claim on his own, without Joseph's knowledge and consent, and if Joseph disagreed agree with it; would Joseph have promoted John to Editor six weeks after such a bold declaration?? The thought makes reason stare. Further, "if" Joseph didn't oversee the publication of the October 1, 1842 edition, and he disagreed with the bold declaration, know this, Joseph would have had it retracted, as he assured his readers he was responsible earlier that year. Joseph never had it retracted. Truth is, Joseph is the one who published it; Joseph was Editor and owns the declaration, Zarahemla is in Central America. You either trust Joseph or you don't. Next, go to the Church's website and search - 'Book of Mormon Geography'. Notice, the church takes no stance on the exact location of BOM cities, because no exact locations have been revealed. However, in the same statement on the Church's website, the Church does acknowledge Joseph's beliefs on the subject, and further confirms and substantiates Joseph as Editor of the Times & Seasons in 1842 for the articles referring to Book of Mormon lands and Central America (aka Mesoamerica). Very interesting indeed. Kinda clears up any speculation. Joseph, states Zarahemla is in Central America, within the borders of Guatemala, as he would have known it on the maps of his day. For additional & interesting collaboration on what Joseph would have known Guatemala to be in his day, google - "map of Guatemala 1825" (or 1835, it doesn't matter) open a properly labeled map and notice Guatemala's borders back in Joseph's day extended as far north to include the Chiapas & Palenque areas of modern-day Mexico. Say what! A very interesting area indeed! Long before any scholar pronounce their own theory as to the location of the land of Zarahemla, Joseph had already declared it to be Central America. No scholars or theories needed to narrow down the general area, Joseph did it for us. All things considered, it all fits. With Zarahemla being in Central America, does the BOM narrative accommodate Joseph's claims of "walking the plains of the Nephites" and the Zelph stories? Could both be accurate and plausible? Yes, in fact, these stories actually collaborate with the BOM narrative precisely with no contradiction. Alma 63 and Helaman 3:3-5,12-16 states many groups of Nephites left the land of Zarahemla & Bountiful and migrated to the north country, both by land and by sea. This also accounts for how a Zelph-type character and other descendants of converted Lamanites were in the northern country during the last struggles. Remember these Nephites departed FROM the lands of Zarahenla and Bountiful sailing across a sea. Also note, there is a sea, not just land, between Zarahemla and the land of a New Jerusalem in the north country. So yes, there are plains of Nephites in the heartland of the north country, aka The United States of America. There are no contradictions by Joseph, and no mental gymnastics or exclusions are required to make things fit. There are even statements in the BOM narrative that signal there was commerce trade happening between the Nephites in the land of Zarahemla/Bountiful and the migrant Nephites groups in the north country. It's all in the book. The book itself, says we will find evidence of Nephite cultures in the heartland of North America; any evidence found collaborates these other Nephite groups that left the lands of Zarahemla & Bountiful where the prophets Nephi through Mormon dwelt, which is in Central America. No academics or scholars are needed to locate the region of the continent where the city of Zarahemla was; Joseph already took care of it in 1842; it's in Central America; to speculate this truth away is futile. After studying the Book of Mormon and all of Joseph's statements, I agree with what Joseph published, Zarahemla, is somewhere in Central America (aka Mesoamerica), and also, that there were other Nephite groups who left the lands of Zarahemla & Bountiful that settled all across the north country, known currently as the "heartland" of the United States of America, as we have a brief mention of them in Helaman 3. Thanks, Mormon for including such a wonderful detail of information. Any evidence found of Nephites in the "heartland" collaborates Mormon's narrative and Joseph's claims, plain and simple. With Zarahemla being in Central America, the southern region of this Continent, the narrative of the BOM fits perfectly, placing the New Jerusalem north in the "heartland" of the current United States of America. That makes sense and fits the narrative perfectly. This editorial is simply wonderful, notice how they clarify the city of Zarahemla as the one burnt at the time of the Lord's crucifixion; why would they need to specify the one burnt at the Savior's crucifixion; isn't there only one Zarahemla? Because, they knew there was a modern city, with the name of Zarahemla, developed by the Latter-day Saints across the river from Nauvoo. Joseph, John, & Wilford wanted to clarify so no one was confused by the two different cities of Zarahemla. No need for speculation, Joseph clears it all up in the same edition of the T&S. With all said, It all adds up and feels right. The Book of Mormon is another volume of scripture, that testifies of Jesus Christ and His gospel. That's the message of the Book, and it's true! Among the writings of that message, are descriptions of where and when it took place. I agree with what Joseph claimed and published, Zarahemla is in Central America. And, there are also plains of the Nephites in the "heartland" as the Book of Mormon mentions there should be. The Book of Mormon is correct and true! Now you know; take care!
@haidermann1
5 жыл бұрын
people Know the Choice land is America. Primarily North America, but all of the Americas are the land of Promise.) They know theres only one Cumorah. The Book of Mormon and D and C 128 state so. We know there is only one Zarahemla. We know where Joseph smith was as he walked over the plains and mounds of the Nephites. We know the Gadiantons lived in the Rocky Mountains. We know their relation to Mesa verde and other cliff dwellers. We know about the Hopi and the Zuni and the Navajo. We know about the uto- azteccan / Comanche. We know about the Map of Moroni's Journey. The list goes on. Believers need know proof, the unbelievers will never have enough proof. Great Video.
@brojangle9277
3 жыл бұрын
Where does the "narrow neck of land" fit into this?
@AGrimAwakening
3 жыл бұрын
I don’t worry too much about where the narrow neck of land fits in because when Christ came it says the WHOLE face of the land changed. Though Wayne May has an idea how he thinks it fits.
@philandrews2860
4 ай бұрын
It doesn't, at least not in any logical way :)
@The_Mister
6 жыл бұрын
When I first heard about the heartland theory I thought it seemed very credible. Then I started looking at the evidence and thought it was much less credible. Then I started noticing how heartland believers make their arguments by wresting the statements of past prophets, scripture, and reading meaning into words that aren’t there, and claiming current LDS scholars and even leaders are out of step with the revealed word. I am becoming convinced that this heartland theory is a pathway to apostasy for its most vocal proponents.
@vendingdudes
4 жыл бұрын
Leaders out of step? Wha?
@philandrews2860
4 ай бұрын
I am coming to similar conclusions, and have looked in great depth into all the various facets of the Heartland Model theory and the numerous statements of its leaders and fans, along with other Book of Mormon theories, including Sorenson's model which is the one I currently favor. I am convinced that even if it winds up not being a pathway to apostasy for them, it will very likely be for their children and descendants. I fear that once they learn real science in school and in our increasingly information oriented society, and find that the Heartland Model makes liberal use of pseudo-science in many of its key 'evidences', I see them being likely to 'throw the baby out with the bath water', after finding out that much of that theory is based on a faulty foundation of misplaced faith in cherry-picked past leaders' statements, misplaced doubt in current church leaders, and Book of Mormon 'evidences' steeped in pseudo-science such as young earth creationism, etc. I don't see this theory as enduring the test of time. It has set back Book of Mormon scholarship by over 100 years, unfortunately.
@randymichaelis3448
3 жыл бұрын
First of all, please remove the marbles and peanut butter so I can understand what you're saying. I had the volume on high with head phones and still had trouble understanding. Big question, if the hill Cumorah was in NY, or Guatemala...why have we not found A SINGLE BONE from the more than 2 million deaths that occurred here? We know the Jaredite battle was over a million and just reading Moroni's accounting of armies (who all died) we had more than 230,000. That's 1.23 Million skeletons laying around there...but we haven't found a single bone.
@gerryquinn5578
6 жыл бұрын
An honest presentation. Why do you think the scholars have been forced to look elsewhere? Could it be because they know that there is no evidence for Cumorah in NY, that it is historical and geographical nonsense. But then again, historians, archaeologists etc know something else, don't they?
@chadluke5454
2 жыл бұрын
WHAT???? You mean someone with a PhD behind their name could be wrong??!!?? NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
@karlshaner2453
6 жыл бұрын
Have you ever seen a hill that was familiar to you? As an explorer, you might choose to name it after your childhood memory? Just saying.
@l7846
4 жыл бұрын
Say, what?
@omar-uu8qo
6 жыл бұрын
At this point if u do your math the evidence is definitely enough to conclude that Joseph has been right all the way ..
@richardholmes7199
5 жыл бұрын
kzitem.info/news/bejne/lJijnIKmnWN5naw (video 1 of 14) proved that Joseph Smith was right the whole time on the translation of the Egyptian.
@saradale9028
4 жыл бұрын
My clan is the great tower of navajo nation. We r told we speak the first original language from the the great tower. God told this clan group to leave for a new land. The great tower clan had a record with them it was called the golden paper booklet, with this group we have salt clans with the mother turned into a salt standing somewhere today. The lady didnt listen to her husband. We have bitter water clans. A man hit a rock with his cane, water came fore bitterwater, there was 12 original clans came in 8 ships. With the twelve clans that left the old world n 8 ships they builder. Kayannie man was their leader. These people were will educated in the ways of God with direction and guidance. They were great writers in the golden paper booklet that was heavy to carry. Kayaanii's feet, hands and tongue were cut off by the enemies so they would teach and write no more. God told kayaanii that the golden paper booklet will come back to them. Where they will read, write and teach about God again with protection. It's a long story. There have alot long story of immigration language change but believe speech the original language, religious practices, doors to face east for the god coming back for them to deliver out of the earth, still today doors face east for his coming.
@cherylbiehn6592
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for your comments! Very interesting!
@saradale9028
3 жыл бұрын
The book of Ether in book of mormon, is where my Navajo clan came from, tower clan. The golden paper booklet was stolen by white young man. Of course they were all the same color of skin, religion, one language, writers. They lost the booklet were destroyed by tongues cut out, hand cut of to not write no more, feet cut of so they wouldn't carry messages of the coming of christ. All doors faceing east for the coming of Christ, waiting for him. Today it's still establishing all doors to face east. Sweatlogdes, corrals.
@henochparks
4 жыл бұрын
The Book of Mormon is mostly in North America. There is only one Cumorah . Yet the peoples of North to South America have the blood of Lehi. Why? There is evidence that the native peoples of all the Americas traveled great distances and traded and mixed thus are the children of Lehi. There is a possibility that Nephite and Lamanite were peoples who were politically and socially located in certain areas called after an ancient son of Lehi, and not necessarily blood descendants. I suspect some lands in the Book of Mormon maybe underwater. We will know the truth someday.
@douglasrowley2641
4 жыл бұрын
I've had the same concerns expressed here. The early brethren clearly believed and taught that Cumorah is where Joseph retrieved and returned the plates. However, I've heard little about the narrow neck of land relative to the North America position. In my mind, the Isthmus of Panama is still the spot that best fits the "day's journey" description, especially considering travel through mountainous jungle; and I don't think it impossible to conceive of ancient people migrating from there to North America, especially under the drastic circumstances of retreating from overwhelming Lamanite armies, which culminated in the final battle at Cumorah. The record also indicates that the land northward had become heavily populated by 400 AD; and we know that Mormon spent his childhood in the land northward and that a friend of the family or relative named Ammaron told Mormon about the hiding place of sacred Nephite records, and that hiding place was the hill Shim, which was the same as Cumorah. Based on these records, it's easy to conceive of Mormon living as a child in the area we now know as Western New York for he would have been familiar with the country Ammaron described to him. George Reynolds, who compiled and published around the year1900, his widely used concordance to the Book of Mormon, expressed his opinion that the River Sidon is the modern River Magdalena which is south of the Isthmus of Panama near the Panama/Columbia border (Concordance, p.633); and my feeling is that his theory reflected the thinking of the leading brethren of his day. If this be the case, then Zarahemla would be south as well, and Joseph's calling the settlement across from Nauvoo, "Zarahemla," was merely in honor of the ancient great city, and not the literal location. My final thought is a question relating to what I have understood to be the counsel of the brethren, that Latter-day Saints, especially teachers in Seminary and Institute, should not speculate on Book of Mormon geography. If that is the case, are we out of order in pursuing these discussions?
@markjolyn94
Жыл бұрын
Sorry,but I will believe an Apostle or a Prophet before a scholar. Just some of the statement's made by President Ezra Taft Benson that scholrs have denied
@nomadbrad6391
6 жыл бұрын
big thanks.
@ktiotns2008
3 жыл бұрын
Everyone needs to remember why they believe what they believe... in the book Jesus the Christ, Talmage designates that the Nephites landed in Argentina. That’s where they get the idea of 2 cumorahs
@earthrenew
5 жыл бұрын
sounds like there's been a bit of heresy taking place at BYU for quite some time!
@justinbosley692
Жыл бұрын
You have a lot of great content here, I just wish the audio was louder and clearer.
@remorselesscuckslayerii8276
3 жыл бұрын
Funny thing that Disneyland actually has Frontier Land, Tomorrow Land etc where you can actually visit. The BOM cannot produce as much as an arrowhead, a sliver of pottery... skeletal remains of the Battle of the Hill Cumorah.
@remorselesscuckslayerii8276
3 жыл бұрын
@Cyril Fletcher Oh yes? So give me verifiable proof like the remains of thousands of Nephites and Lamanites at the Hill Cumorah...
@remorselesscuckslayerii8276
3 жыл бұрын
@Cyril Fletcher Proof not hearsay
@LiveHappy76
2 жыл бұрын
I personally don't think God is going to allow much evidence to be found, because we're supposed to act on faith, not physical knowledge. He's plenty powerful enough to keep us guessing. Same reasons Noah's ark is not going to be found, certain proof of the great flood, etc.
@LiveHappy76
2 жыл бұрын
And by the time God reveals all with indisputable proof, guess what? The days to have repented and to have assisted in the work to save souls along with your own, based on the exercise of *faith* in Christ and His words and gospel taught by the prophets and recorded in scripture, the days to have repented and assisted others will be over! Now/today is the day to develop and act on faith, the day to repent, not tomorrow or some day after God shows the hidden physical proofs of His works. What else do you think it means to seek signs? Signs, essentially, are physical evidences of God or His words or prophets. Let actions based on faith be*your sign to God* that you sincerely believe in Him and desire to obey Him. And then, all of a sudden, what physical evidences there are of the Book of Mormon don't matter any more, just whether you have felt and had answer in your heart and spirit whether its words are true.
@jamesivie5717
25 күн бұрын
The evidence supports Cumorah in New York.
@buddhawebb1047
5 жыл бұрын
I chose prophets
@dante04srt
7 ай бұрын
Are you sure? Because it seems like yall just choose old white guys from Utah
@buddhawebb1047
7 ай бұрын
@@dante04srt well to be perfectly honest I also did choose your mom 😂😂😂😂
@dante04srt
7 ай бұрын
@@buddhawebb1047 Ya think the prophet would approve? 🤣
@buddhawebb1047
7 ай бұрын
@@dante04srt well he would want me to have multiple wives…….. do you have more moms 😂😂😂😂
@dante04srt
7 ай бұрын
@buddhawebb1047 well, they're all your spirit sisters so....
@dlbuckn
2 жыл бұрын
Men of God don’t lie.
@davidstout6051
3 жыл бұрын
Positing two Cumorahs is an obvious attempt to make up your own “facts” to fit your theory. NY is the one place that is a given. The rest involves some guesswork. And by the way, my educational background is in history and I also am not a member of any of the Smith based churches, so I have no horse in this race. (I am, however, sympathetic to both the LDS and Community of Christ. I think they both do a lot of good )
@koltoncrane3099
6 жыл бұрын
Sure there maybe no facts supporting a lot of things like battles. I’m fine with it because you have to have faith with the Book of Mormon. It irritates me that people simply have faith with the Bible and don’t need facts except for the Book of Mormon. There’s no facts concerning the great flood or Moses walking through the Red Sea. The greatest fact that we need to be Christians is did Jesus walk from the tomb resurrected? There’s no FACT no proof of this and yet people still believe in Jesus and the Bible. Why? If you still believe in Jesus being resurrected without facts and base you’re entire life on that and you’re mindset then you’re living in faith because you don’t have facts to rest on except for the Holy Ghost. Why then do you need facts for the Book of Mormon when you can have faith and use the Holy Ghost like you do for believing in Christ?
@SmoothRuffian
6 жыл бұрын
kolton crane, great comment.
@byronofcalgary6985
6 жыл бұрын
and if you don't believe in Christ then the Book of Mormon is a lie - however if you don't believe in the Book Of Mormon it has NO bearing on Christianity - none - note Matt 27:61 - 65 and 28:11 have a lie or rumor being spread to deter belief in the Empty Tomb - it even states Jews still believe it - your "point" was dealt with 2,000 years ago - move on...
@SmoothRuffian
6 жыл бұрын
The book of Mormon testifies of Jesus Christ. To say the Book of Mormon has no bearing on Christianity is kind of a non-sequitur thing to say. It is correct that no book can diminish or expand what Jesus did. You could say the same thing about the Bible. But the greater problem of the christian denominations is that they are missing some aspects of the whole Gospel that Jesus actually preached. The book of Mormon addresses some things that the Bible infers and recognizes, but doesn't clarify, such as Baptism, Priesthood authority, and Prophets and Apostles. So with the Bible, you can believe in Christ and that is great, but you are not able to practice the Gospel as Jesus meant. You can just believe. Now what most preachers among the Christian denominations have done, in order to justify not having Priesthood authority and sanctioning from Jesus, is to teach that all you need is the Bible. This is false. Yes, first is faith in Christ. But the ordinances of His church are real. And you and all other Bible worshipers don't have an answer for that. On the other hand, we don't worship the Bible OR the Book of Mormon. We worship Jesus and have faith in His grace and do the ordinances that he commanded. What is very immature is for you or any Christian to assume that just because you have a Bible, there is no more need for any other possible scripture to come to light. You have your Bible because of Emperor Constantine. Appreciate what you do have and thank God if He decides to give more light from Heaven. Don't dismiss because you thought you had all you needed, and Jesus then says, actually, you need to baptized with Priesthood authority. Instead of just taking your Pastors' teachings about members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as truth, do your own studying. Stop spewing rhetoric. The Book of Mormon teaches powerfully about the Atonement of Jesus Christ just like the Bible. It could not have been made up by an 18 year old boy in a 6 month period of time. More importantly, the Gospel taught in the Book of Mormon does NOT contradict anything the Bible teaches. It is not needed to freak out in a Bible-worshiping fit to dismiss the Book of Mormon. You should try reading it some time.
@byronofcalgary6985
6 жыл бұрын
actually... I just keep asking around which Ordinances, Doctrines and Covenants are found in the Book OF Mormon - - which of the "things Req'd" to go live with Heavenly Father were given to the Nephites by Jesus or by anyone ? - not being smart but maybe their Prophesied demise was from a complete lack of Mormon Doctrine ? ? it sure killed Lamanites
@SmoothRuffian
6 жыл бұрын
@@byronofcalgary6985 im not sure what you are getting at. But Baptism was taught in the Book of Mormon by the resurrected Lord himself in 3rd Nephi. God speed.
@besimarks3236
4 жыл бұрын
Need to know that our Ancestors for generations and generations have had no modern means of transportation except walking, running, riding animals or horses. Oral histories relate people running for long distances in a day, often times with a pebble in their mouth to generate moisture and or saliva if in the desert, they improvised the mode of traveling, trained animals, moved with their herds to greener pastures or in seasons per climate or weather changes, or per astronomical changes (my grandparents always knew how the day was going to be tomorrow) always being aware of enemies or wild animals; because they knew the landscapes and other people, they knew when, what, where, how, why did what they did, they didn't do anything on the spare of the moment; they needed reasons to do whatever. Moving families and livestock took planning, distances, directions and so forth. If involvement in wars, at times it may mean abandoning their possessions, maybe with plans to retrieve their possessions later. In these modern times we are not in shape to do what our ancestors did, we have vehicles to carry us further in one day. We don't walk for any distances, unless we are training for like marathons, but even with that, we are not any where our ancestors were. Traveling distances to pass information to relatives in running mode was the norm back in the day. Even as late as 1950s. Before vehicles came on the scenes. Keep these in mind when writing about our ancestors, plus keep in mind also of our lands/countries; stories of my ancestors did testified of Christ coming after his resurrection to Americas, visiting maybe visiting each tribes, that on the 4th day after 3 days of darkness; the sun came out and all of the people that survived the turmoil mother earth suffered, people saw all the changes that had taken placed, the landscapes, where the mountains were, were not, the flat lands were now mountainous or valleys appeared, the mountains had flattened out and so forth. Also when (Diyin Dine'..Holy People) 1st man/woman were created, we had one language and one land. Of course after the flood, our language and land changed. After every major catastrophe of our world, lands (world) as they knew it changed. Thx.
@Spaseebo
6 жыл бұрын
The naysayers who attack the Book of Mormon as purely fiction, will surely have their eyes opened when they see all the artefacts, weapons, chariot wheels, coins, writing plates, jewellery, remnants of clothing, pottery, etc from the ancient civilisations in the Book of Mormon, in the huge Mormon Museum in Cumorah !
@oliverdownunder9397
6 жыл бұрын
Spaseebo Hahahahahahahaha deluded.
@michaelgrey7854
5 жыл бұрын
Hahahahahahahahaha thats so funny.
@ChildePC
4 жыл бұрын
Cummorah and everyone in north america... Is where nephites ended up. Every city name past 3 nephi is almost completely new.
@TP-vu3tc
2 жыл бұрын
Archaeologist are now touching the tip of the iceberg in a newly found civilization dating before and after the time of Christ discovered deep below the Guatemalan jungle. The extroirinary thing is, it was occupied by a advanced civilization, complete with roads and fortifications. Population levels in the millions, millions. Like "Sands of the Sea". This newly discovered land seems to be "covered with buildings" of all sorts. Sure the Nephites lived in Land North (United States),and battled Laminates, after the time of peace of Christ's visit. With population levels much lower than, than Land South. Remember the young Mormon was carried, by his father, from Land North to Land South (Zarahemla). Iowa could not be Land South. That would make Mormon coming from Canada. Land Cumorah is east of Iowa, not North. Nephites fled North, not East. One could dig all over proposed Zarahemla Iowa and not find a population like "Sands of the Sea" with .illions of ancient inhabitants. The Lord said build a city, named Zarahemla, in Iowa. Not that is where ancient Zarahemla is located.
@davus4242
Жыл бұрын
Additionally for the honest seekers reading this, who may not know: There is ample evidence in the narrative of the Book of Mormon, that allows for, and describes, how there was a populous of Nephites and Lamanites in the north country (modern day USA), here's few. Around 200 BC, Mosiah, opened the flood gates of migration to the north country, when he proclaimed there was this wonderful land on the other side of the land of desolation where a New Jerusalem would be built. And, we have record, that many did go north into this new wonderful north country; when word got out, Nephites, Mulekites, and even Lamanites would have been migrating to this north country for two hundred years before Christ appeared. And, in fact we read, in time, they covered the entire face of the north land from coast to coast. (we're not talking about the Jaredited). Hel 3:3-5, sounds like those migrating folks discovered the Great Lakes! Thank you Mormon, for including that golden nugget and tidbit. That explains why they are plains of the Nephites in the area according to Joseph. Not to mention the groups that built boats and sailed north, just a couple of examples. This is only a snippet of the migrations that were going on. There's much, much more going on outside of what's specifically mentioned in the condensed Book we have. However, Mormon and Moroni gave us enough to paint and see the big picture of the continent, not just the area of the main story-line where Nephi, Mosiah, Benjamin, Alma, Ammon, Capt Moroni, Helaman, 3-Nephi all lived. We read, in Mormon 6:2-3 that all the Nephites where Moroni lived were killed, wiped out, he says he's the last Nephite in his home land, he's alone. Then we read in Moroni ch1, that as he wanders for his safety over the years, he see and tells us that the Lamanites are now at war between themselves, and they continue to kill Nephites who won't deny the Christ. There's so much more.... it's all there in the Book of Mormon! So, you see just by the examples above, Joseph's statements of the plains of the Nephites, the story of Zelph, and great battles in the heartland all fit, when applying the over-all seen of the continent, as depicted in the Book of Mormon. There were Nephites and Lamanites all across the north country, long before and after Christ arrived; we just don't have their full history (yet), only glimpses provided by Mormon, Moroni, and Joseph. More to come folks. The Book of Mormon is clear, that there were Nephites and Lamanites all across the continent. So, there would be evidence of the peoples all across the continent, and there are. However, when it comes to the main story-line of the Book of Mormon and where it takes place; where Nephi, Mosiah, Benjamin, Alma, Ammon, Capt Moroni, Helaman, 3-Nephi all lived; there is a contained geographical area where it happened. Mormon, lays it all out for us with his detailed descriptions of the geography. There is such a place in North America's geography, where the book's description and narrative nicely all fit. Where the Sidon river still flows north. (where Zarahemla is) Where the New Jerusalem is north of Zarahemla and Cumroah. Where the narrow neck of land is South of the hill Cumorah. Where Laman's land is south of the narrow neck of land. Where the seas, are all, where they're suppose to be. Where the mountainous wilderness is where it suppose to be. Where there are mountains that spew ash of destruction. (volcanoes) Where there are sunken, under water, stone city ruins in the area. say what! It's true! It all adds up, it all fits! Hint: it's not Ohio, New York, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, nor any where in current day USA or Canada. Best wishes to everyone in your hunt.
@davus4242
Жыл бұрын
This is interesting: The Church's main focus and mission is to proclaim and teach the Gospel of Christ; BOM & Biblical geography are not topics the Church dwells on, thus many latter-day saints are unaware, Joseph claimed and declared Zarahemla was in Central America; he even put it in writing and published it. If you're interested to know this, google - Times and Seasons October 1, 1842 Zarahemla. Joseph as Editor, along with his assistant editors, Apostles John Taylor & Wilford Woodruff (both of whom would become presidents of the Church themselves), boldly declare as an "important fact" - Zarahemla was in Central America, in the land of Guatemala. To substantiate the claim and declaration, Joseph, being very familiar with the details of the BOM, quotes and rehearses Alma 22 describing the region where Zarahemla was. This is what Joseph felt and believed, and he printed it in the Church's Times and Seasons paper, there's no hearsay about it. The editors then went on to clarify, they weren't declaring an exact or specific city, mentioned in an explorer's book they, which they had previously named and discussed, in a previous edition of the T&S was the city of Zarahemla. They didn't feel impressed to declare that specific city Zarahemla, only that Zarahemla was somewhere in Central America. However, they (Joseph, John, & Wilford) are of the opinion that the previously named city, was a city of the Book of Mormon. Read the T&S article for the full details. Keep in mind, this secondary clarification of a specific city previously named not being Zarahemla, does not remove or dissolve the declared important fact, that Zarahemla was in Central America. Zarahemla being in Central America collaborates with the BOM narrative. You either trust Joseph or you don't. To attempt to speculate this declaration away is futile. Also, know, in the same T&S Oct 1, 1842 edition, the editors (Joseph, John, & Wilford) refute the conspiring claims of other publications in the region, suggesting Joseph had fled the area of Nauvoo and is on the run. Truth is, Joseph was still in the area and still very much editor of what was printed in the T&S Oct 1, 1842; while at the same time avoiding false arrest of conspiring men. Read the full edition, Joseph was still around and still very much in charge, as represented & substantiated by the T&S article itself. So a very special thanks, to the editors(Joseph, John, & Wilford), for documenting this conspiracy so long ago and clearing it up for future generations. Keep in mind, earlier that year, when Joseph took over as editor of the T&S, he declared, and assured the readers, that he alone would be responsible for what was printed in the T&S while he was editor. Joseph was Editor until November 15, 1842, a full six weeks after Joseph makes the declaration that Zarahemla is in Central America, Joseph steps aside as Editor and appoints John Taylor as the new Editor of the Times and Season to replace himself. Logic and common sense dictate if John Taylor had published the Zarahemla claim all on his own, without Joseph's knowledge and consent, and if Joseph didn't agree with it, would Joseph have promoted John to Editor six weeks after such declaration?? The thought makes reason stare. Further, "if" Joseph didn't oversee the publication of the October 1, 1842 edition, and he disagreed with the bold declaration, know this, Joseph would have had it retracted, as he assured his readers he was responsible. Joseph never had it retracted; Joseph is the one who published it. Truth is, Joseph was Editor and owns the declaration, Zarahemla is in Central America. You either trust Joseph or you don't. Next, go to the Church's website and search - Book of Mormon Geography. Notice, the church takes no stance on the exact location of BOM cities, because no exact locations have been revealed. However, in the same statement on the Church's website, the Church does acknowledge Joseph's beliefs on the subject, and further confirms and substantiates Joseph as Editor of the Times & Seasons in 1842 for the articles referring to Book of Mormon lands and Central America (aka Mesoamerica). Very interesting indeed. Kinda clears up any speculation. Joseph, states Zarahemla, is in Central America, within the borders of Guatemala, as he would have known it on the maps of his day. For additional & interesting collaboration on what Joseph would have known Guatemala to be in his day, google - "map of Guatemala 1825" (or 1835, it doesn't matter) open a properly labeled map and notice Guatemala's borders back in Joseph's day extended as far north to include the Chiapas & Palenque areas of modern-day Mexico. Say what! A very interesting area indeed! Long before any scholar pronounce their own theory as to the location of the land of Zarahemla, Joseph had already declared it to be Central America. No scholars or theories needed to narrow down the general area, Joseph did it for us. All things considered, it all fits. If Zarahemla is in Central America, does the BOM narrative accommodate Joseph's claims of "walking the plains of the Nephites" and the Zelph stories? Could both be plausible? Yes, in fact, these stories actually collaborate with the BOM narrative precisely. Alma 63 and Helaman 3:3-5,12-16 states many groups of Nephites left the land of Zarahemla & Bountiful and migrated to the north country, both by land and by sea. This also accounts for how a Zelph type character and other descendants of converted Lamanites being in the northern country during the last struggles. Remember these Nephites departed FROM the lands of Zarahenla and Bountiful. Also note, there is a sea, not just land, between Zarahemla and the New Jerusalem in the north country. So yes, there are plains of Nephites in the heartland of the north country, There are no contradictions by Joseph, and no mental gymnastics are required. There are even statements in the BOM narrative that signal there was commerce trade happening between the Nephites in the land of Zarahemla/Bountiful and the migrant Nephites groups in the north country. It's all in the book. The book itself, says we will find evidence of Nephite cultures in the heartland of North America; only the evidence found is that of other Nephite groups that left the lands of Zarahemla & Bountiful where the prophets Nephi through Mormon dwelt, which is in Central America.
@TP-vu3tc
Жыл бұрын
@davus4242 I have my seminary Book of Mormon from the 70's published by the Church, and it is filled with pictures supporting the churches position that places the Land South (Zarahemla) in the Getamalala/Mexico border region. Some groups want to place it across the Mississippi from Nauvoo, but this is not what was officially preached to us in seminary.
@davus4242
Жыл бұрын
@@TP-vu3tc Very good. Though we all need to keep in mind, the borders of Guatemala have significantly shrunk since the maps published in 1825 & 1835 which Joseph would have had access to in his day. However, we do know as an "important fact" from Joseph, Zarahemla is in Central America. Wherever it is, (no matter which country occupies the actual spot) it will still be in Central America. (aka Mesoamerica for contemporary/eccentric readers). I know you know this, so I share it for those reading our comments. The BOM itself describes the setting and Central America fits the criteria to the 'T'. Everything aligns with Zarahemla being in Central America. The BOM Zarahemla, is definitely not across the river from Nauvoo. Because we know the BOM Zarahemla is south of the north country where the New Jerusalem will be built. Meaning, if Independence Missouri is where the New Jerusalem will be built, the BOM Zarahemla will be south of there, not east or northeast as is the Iowa honorary Zarahemla, across the river from Nauvoo. Also, the readers shouldn't forget, according to BOM narrative, that Mormon gives us in Alma 63:4-9 and Helaman 3, there is a sea (not a river, Mormon knew the difference) between the BOM Zarahemla and the north country where the new Jerusalem will be built. The Nephites built ships and sailed north from the lands Zarahemla & Bountiful to the north country. This sea between the north and south regions of the same continent is paramount in locating the lands of Zarahemla & Bountiful, where all the prophets, Nephi through Mormon dwelt. This sea is a key geographical feature in narrowing down the general location or region of the continent. If someone professes that one of the Great Lakes is this key sea feature, which Nephites sailed across, to get to the north country, where the New Jerusalem will be built, where would that place the New Jerusalem? (Canada??) The thought makes reason stare. Further, If one of the Great Lakes is this sea to cross and they launched their ships from the shores of Zarahenla & Bountiful, where would it place Zarahemla or Bountiful? Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York, Michigan, Wisconsin, Indiana? Certainly, not all the way over in Iowa, that's nowhere near a sea. it's comical, yet quite sad at the same time. They "can't see the forest for/through the trees". Yet they write a book or make a video of speculations and hearsay, convincing unsuspecting folks, of the mis & disinformation. And because the book & video sellers are so smooth and convincing in their language and presentation (as are all great con men), people believe the misinformation and buy their books. The only books you need are a set of scriptures (Bible, BOM, D&C, PoGP ) and the Church's website (which will link you to proper sources when necessary). Best wishes to all seekers of the truth. Be careful out there.
@russellricksbooks2579
2 ай бұрын
I prefer to trust a man who has seen angels vs. a scholar full of hot air and a piece of paper claiming his degree.
@richarner3856
Күн бұрын
Charles Manson said he saw angels
@chaaruzuchibi
5 жыл бұрын
Nice work and yes there’s only one Hill Cumorah here in the USA.
@redr1150r
7 жыл бұрын
There is a good possibility that we don't have a glimmer of the story of the civilizations in Central and South America. The Nephites were destroyed as a Nation, but many of the people lingered on. As in all wars of those times , many of those survivors became slaves, or disarmed vassals of the victorious. Those that escaped and were in hiding eventually dwindled away and their descendants were absorbed into the Tribes of the victors. The best stories and oral histories come to us from the first colonists that spoke to the various Indian tribes. They recount great wars being fought because of religion and ethnic hatreds. Our outlook on these great events has been tainted by our own culture by making the great movie classics such as the "10 Commandments'', "The Robe", and "Cleopatra" etc.. I believe the Prophets.
@oliverdownunder9397
6 жыл бұрын
Ellef Tollefson Perhaps you could ask Humpty Dumpty....you mormons live in a dream world!
@aaronshinkle8308
6 жыл бұрын
Oliver Downunder, "Fools mock, but they shall mourn." Repentance is a gift of Jesus Christ, I suggest you use it before the canker that has developed on your soul grows too toxic to overcome...
@oliverdownunder9397
6 жыл бұрын
Aaron Shinkle Save your threats for your mormon 'brethren'. That's how your leaders control you...with fear. It's not hard to mock something that is an obvious hoax!
@larrycorett1032
6 жыл бұрын
Oliver Downunder It is not a hoax it's a pile of bullshit
@Cryptosifu
6 жыл бұрын
Cumorah is an Island off the coast of Madagascar. Capital City? Moroni. Many of JS favorite stories were those of Captain Kidd, treasure hunter/pirate. Yep, his stories were based on his many journeys, from Cumorah. What did Captain Kidd do when he buried treasure? He would kill one of his men and leave them in the hole to protect his treasures. Moroni was a “spirit” who had “protected” the treasure. “Gold plates, sword, breastplate and magic spectacles. JS was a treasure seeker, as was OC. Am I the only one who sees these parallels? The early 19th century era, were filled with gullible people. Our country, only 50-60 years earlier, just escaped European rule. Governance was an extremely difficult undertaking during this time. The War of 1812., and the continual executions of Native Americans, was primed for fear-based religions to emerge. LDS, Seventh-Day Adventist, JW and many many more were created to create a belonging and a hierarchical rule law, achieved through obedience. I suppose, we all search for the truth. Peace.
@SmoothRuffian
6 жыл бұрын
Rick McGhee Really? You're going with the argument that Joseph wrote a massively successful story that corroborates between Bible and Book of Mormon history, with serious complexities, and that he took ideas from a children's story book??? Maybe you are not aware that the Island is not called Cumorah. It's called Comoros. So Joseph went ahead and slightly changed one name, but not the other? So really, there is just one coincidental name here, among hundreds of made up names. The name Moroni from the Capital of Comoros happens to be Arabic in origin. If you want to discuss names in the Book of Mormon, how about the name Alma? Did Joseph Smith make a hugely lucky guess by using Alma as a male's name, when it was discovered that it was in fact a Hebrew male name from the dead sea scrolls?
@Cryptosifu
6 жыл бұрын
riingram your cognitive dissonance has robbed you of reason.
@SmoothRuffian
6 жыл бұрын
The settlement of "Moroni" did not become the capital city of the Comoros Islands until 1876 (32 years after Joseph's death and 47 years after the publication of the Book of Mormon). The possibility of Joseph seeing the names on a map is remote at best. It has not even been proved that Joseph ever saw the names, or that any source available to him linked them. Sorry you are so bent on proving the Church wrong that you will use any half-assed argument without doing your own research. Just spit out garbage that you have heard, including using the word "Cumorah" instead of the actual word. I guess it wouldn't fool as many people if you did that.
@Cryptosifu
6 жыл бұрын
@@SmoothRuffian after you read the1830 version, the Late War, the View of the Hebrews, Marco Polo and do some research on Manuscript Found, get back with me. Believe it or not, the BofM has had significant changes and plageries that it is proven to be a complete hoax.
@Cryptosifu
6 жыл бұрын
@@SmoothRuffian hey ringworm, the city of Moroni always existed. My point was that it is the capital now. How many American capitals have changed? I live in VA, our capital has not always been Richmond.
@MustangWriter
7 жыл бұрын
Ok...I'm one of those 'students' that believe there are many Hill Cumorahs. The one in New York I will call Hill #2 (for the sake of keeping things simple). Cumorah in reformed Egyptian/Hebrew simply means 'high hill', some interpret it as the 'highest hill in the area' (I don't, I just think it means high hill; ok...whatever). Signs directing traffic to he Golan Heights in Israel read in Hebrew: "Golan Rammah'. Phonetically... almost the same: cumoRAH/ RammAH. The Golan Heights are the highest hills in the area of Israel and a strategic military point. When Mormon handed off the ABRIDGED copy of the gold plates to Moroni, what did Mormon do with the UNABRIDGED plates? It says he hid them in the Hill Cumorah or by MY definition a high hill. Not Hill #2. But ANOTHER high hill. (Hill #1) How do I figure this? Because shortly after hiding the UNABRIDGED copy; 340,000 Nephite men, women, and children would be slaughtered by the Lamanites . 340,000 people IS A LOT of people. That's the approx. population of modern Oklahoma City. It had to be a BIG hill. Hill #2 is a relatively small hill altho perhaps one of the largest hills in that area. Also do you believe Moroni hid in a cave until it was all over with? Then exited having buried the plates there? Moroni would've NOT hung around that scene of carnage to bury the ABRIDGED copy as 340,000 dead Nephites rotting bodies would cause a stench that would have been absolutely unbearable. Besides...Mormon already buried the UNABRIDGED copy there. Why bury the ABRIDGED copy there as well? It doesn't make sense. So Moroni left and traveled north through the narrow neck of land. (NOT THE PANAMA CANAL) We read that when the Savior was crucified and died the American continent went through a great upheaval. I contend that the Amazon basin (which was known as the East Sea) was pushed up from this great upheaval. As well as ALL OF S. AMERICA. Scientists wonder how people grew crops at the terraces of Machu Pichu as Macho Pichu is TOO HIGH of elevation to grow crops. Well...it was pushed up 3.000 ft in the great upheaval. Also crabs typically found in the sea have been found in the middle of the Amazon (this is what led to my studies of this subject as one clue led to another). Also the BoM describes these people as inhabitants of the 'Islands'. I also contend South America was once two islands. The Iron Island (Brazil; as spoken of in many history books) the West Sea (Pacific Ocean) and the East Sea (Amazon Basin then underwater) and the Andes Mountain range the other island which contained modern day Chili, Peru, Ecuador and the SW border of Columbia. Central America (Panama and the Isthmus of Darius) also did not exist as it does today (having been pushed up). The 'narrow neck of land doesn't exist any more since the topographical land changes but would been in the land of desolation (called that because of the volcanic activity and soil). Also there are ruins in Chili. Peru, Ecuador... but none in Columbia, and Panama, until you get to Honduras & Guatemala. Why the gap of ruins? Because all of those lands were underwater until the upheaval. Well...If that is true... Then how are there ancient ruins in Honduras and Guatemala? HAGAR. We read Hagar built REED SHIPS and sailed off. The only place you can get the reeds descried is LAKE TITICACA, Peru. Where to this day inhabitants make boats out of reeds. Hagar sailed off (I'm thinkin' from Peru or there abouts via the East Sea or Amazon basin) and landed in Guatemala and built cities (now ruins). Moroni traveled north over the newly exposed Isthmus of Darius where he hooked up with Hagars peeps and eventually continued northward with many of hagars peeps in tow, creating many civilizations. I think this expains Onidas/Zelf and a white tribe of Indians found in Florida many moons ago (which secular thought was they were descendants of the lost colony of Roanoke; debatable) At anyrate... We know where MORONI's high hill (#2) is. I believe through my studies I have found hill #1 or rather MORMON's 'high hill' along with Zarahemla and other sites. Now that said... I had one seminary teacher ask me how do I explain when Moroni's Hill Cumorah (Hill #2) opened up and several persons saw golden scriptures piled high and the sword of Laban? I can't. Well that's not true...I kinda can. Here goes...and this may be hard to swallow, but if you can believe that a hill can open up, maybe you'll understand this: ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE WITH GOD. I could go deeper into treasure enchantments as pertaining to the Lord's purposes..but thats another discussion and I'm tired. LOL. Ok...So how do you compensate for Oliver Cowdery's letter 7? That Hill #2 IS THE ONE AND ONLY HILL CUMORAH. I personally believe that's in the interpretation of his wording. Which Hill is he ACTUALLY speaking about at which time? Hill #1 or Hill #2? Hill #2? You sure? If I said I saw wood. How would you interpret it? That I actively cut wood or that I in the past tense I seen wood? Whichever verb interpretation chosen were still speaking of wood. When speaking of the Death of Nephites I believe he is speaking of Hill #1. When speaking of Moroni's plates... I believe he is speaking of Hill #2. I believe BOTH Cumorahs are getting intertwined in the narrative without a distinct line of demarcation of understanding. I realize that's a lot to discern. However I feel strong enough to plan an expedition soon to the areas I have mentioned. I have the financial backing of prominent LDS as it is my intent to film my trek to Hill #1 for BYU TV. Then and only then once the Spirit has whispered to me the course I should take I will reveal the location of all I know... 'in due time... in reformed Egyptian.
@personalvideos213
7 жыл бұрын
The land is a land of liberty, and a land of gentiles, and the most choice in all the earth...
@bookofmormonheartland
7 жыл бұрын
1. Only one people in the archeological records begin about 500BC and disappear at 400AD - The Hopewell. 2. The Hopewell are considered by the Archeologist as being an advanced people compared to those around them. 3. Some scientists (LDS and Non LDS) claim the Hopewell (and Cherokee and Ojibwe) have Haplogroup Xtype 2 which ties them to Gallilee. 4. The Hopewell built mounds - lots of them which are after the manner of Captain Moroni. 5. Hebrew and Egyptian writings have been found in the ruins of the Hopewell. 6. Many mounds exist in the area mentioned in D&C 125 as the land Zerahemla. It is a major Hopewell ruin. 7. Mounds in Ohio have sacred markings such as the compass and the square built into the shape of the mounds. 8. One mound is in the shape of the Manora and oil lamp. 9. The lakes were higher 2000 years ago. The Great Black Swamp and Kakani Swamp existed in the days of the colonists. Indiana was 80 percent wetlands. This is the probable narrow pass 2000 years ago leading into Michigan. 10. Michigan relics have absolute reformed Egyptian writings on them. 11. New Mexico near Albequerque has a large boulder with the Ten Commandments chiseled on it in Paleo Hebrew. Egyptian is found further up the trail. 12. Florida is the early location of the Hopewell. 13. A temple ruins with Egyptian including hebrew style alters were found in Tennessee - Likely site of Nephi's Temple. 14. Tennessee contains all of the minerals mentioned in 2 Nephi that were contained in the land after they fled north to escape the brothers. 15. Go North again to get to Zerahemla (near Nauvoo), or Go to Ohio (Bountiful). 16. Center of the Lands during Lachoneos time has a matching center of the lands of the Hopewell with 42 connecting forts. It just goes on and on and on. Watch movies by Wayne May and Rod Meldrum. I know you have put a lot of thought into this. But the more I look, the more it all makes sense. Best wishes.
@MustangWriter
7 жыл бұрын
Ugh. Sorry Hagoth (not Hagar the Viking) LOL. I was tired and trying to give a hurried explanation. The land Bountiful was south of the Land of Desolation. The City Bountiful straddled the border just inside the Land Bountiful (Zarahemla was much further south. I've also found the City of Moroni, the River Sidon, the land of Jershon, Nephite war zones etc ). The Land of Desolation was called such because of why? Because of previous volcanic activity which made the land (back then) pretty much un-farmable and pretty much useless. I see no geographic activity that matches such a description in the United States (even 2,000 years ago) but I do see such land formations (Bountiful/Desolation) else where. And again... The BoM calls these people "people of the isles of the sea" Nephi 19: 10 (588-570 bc). As far as 'these islands' we have a probable reference to it in pre-Christian times: The historian Plutarch recorded a yarn of certain sailors who landed in Spain about 60 BC after visiting TWO large Atlantic Islands 10,000 stadia (approx. 1200 miles) from the west coast of Africa. (Robert Larson "Was America the Wonderful Land of Fusang?" American Heritage; April 1966, pg 43) The distance between the eastern coast of current day Brazil and the western coast of Africa is approx... 1600 miles. It would seem these sailors were referring to the South American continent as it appeared in B.C. An inscribed stone reportedly found on the banks of the Paraiba river about a hundreds miles north of Rio De Janeiro, Brazil, calls that B.C area IRON ISLAND. Cyrus Gordon Professor of Mediterranean Studies author of the book: Before Columbus translated the inscription as follows: "We are Sidonian Canaanites from the city of the Merchant King. We were cast up on this distant ISLAND... We sacrificed a youth to the celestial gods and goddesses in the 19th year of our King Hiram and embarked from Ezion-geber into the Red Sea. We voyaged with 10 ships and were at sea together for 2 years around Africa. Then we were separated by the hand of Baal and were no longer with our companions. So we have come here, 12 men and three women into the ISLAND of IRON. Am I. the admiral, a man who would flee? Nay! May the celestial gods and goddesses favor us well." Nearby there are many iron deposits. Twice the inscription refers to the land as a ISLAND. This rock inscription proves that present day Brazil... was once an ISLAND. We will call that THE EAST ISLAND. The Nephite Island stretched from todays Columbia to central Chile. The Nephite island established is a conclusion that Jacob knew whereof he spoke when he referred to the Nephites "isle of the sea" with the East Sea (Amazon Basin) separating both islands. These geographical island land masses also explain the "Land of the Jaradites" narrative much better than the Great Lakes region. I could go on and on. We already know HAGOTH made reed boats to sail from the Nephite Island. Reeds ONLY found in Lake Titicaca in Peru. Lake Titicaca reeds were the same reeds and balsa logs that Thor Heyerdal constructed the Kon Tiki with; proving in his day that a man could sail the oceans on such a craft. Also its obvious that Lake Titicaca was once a part of the East Sea; todays Amazon basin. I appreciate such a 'learned' DNA response, but its not warranted or needed since I too believe that the American Indian is of the tribe of Mannasah; never-the-less BoM locations are easily discerned by BoM clues, prayerful study and personal revelation. Good luck.
@MustangWriter
7 жыл бұрын
"When Mormon handed off the ABRIDGED copy of the gold plates to Moroni, what did Mormon do with the UNABRIDGED plates? It says he hid them in the Hill Cumorah or by MY definition a high hill. Not Hill #2. But ANOTHER high hill. (Hill #1)" Sorry another late night typo error... Mormon hid the plates in a hill called RAMMAH ( A Cumorah but NOT the Cumorah of Moroni & Joseph. ) Ether 15: 11
@bookofmormonheartland
7 жыл бұрын
MustangWriter well, it is not worth arguing over. The teachings in the Book are far more important than where it took place. The northern setting makes perfect sense to me. It does not to you. So be it. Have a great day.
@silvereagle4903
6 жыл бұрын
There is more truth to the Iliad than the Book of Mormon
@kimwilliams722
Жыл бұрын
Ii loved bcsorensons comment in a nutshell
@byronofcalgary6985
3 жыл бұрын
I would dig in NY.... can you imagine what it would be like to actually have evidence ?
@cherylbiehn6592
3 жыл бұрын
There is actual evidence. Study the Hopewell mounds and people.
@byronofcalgary6985
3 жыл бұрын
@@cherylbiehn6592 yeah but not millions of dead soldiers in one year of battles. No swords or shields in those mounds. No "wagon loads of treasure" in Hill Cumorrah "3 miles from my home " is there ? It was there 150 years ago... pretty easy to find.
@anisuthideyakoindu
4 жыл бұрын
Hill Cumorah was in Nieu Nederlandt ofte Nova Belgica. ;)
@l7846
4 жыл бұрын
Oh. Boy. ' Nother county heard from.
@anisuthideyakoindu
4 жыл бұрын
@@l7846 just take a map of 1640
@byronofcalgary6985
5 жыл бұрын
actually you can go to Google Maps and search " LDS Visitors Center - Hill Cumorrah " - guess where they take you ? to the Official LDS Hill Cumorrah in NY State "3 miles from my home" - yes the one with "wagon loads of treasure" - even if that treasure "slipped away" a bit, it's still there - WOWSER - wagon loads of evidence right where the Prophet said -
@binren3984
4 жыл бұрын
Good One. Mormons have no reasoning skills. There goes the narrow neck of land theory God only had one altar
@chesmisjared3558
4 жыл бұрын
@@binren3984 One altar? Someone is not very familiar with the old testament.
@boraboy4ever
6 жыл бұрын
The spirit teaches those who see and we know that the Nephite nation was on the North American continent as Joseph said.
@curtiscahoon2752
6 жыл бұрын
boraboy4ever News flash: Mesoamerica (Central America) is part of North America.
@boraboy4ever
6 жыл бұрын
The Father teaches all. There is nothing to learn when one has all within.
@moronibreitbart6055
4 жыл бұрын
Few things more entertaining than members who actually believe they have inside info, or are...scholars. A scholar has no more than a member with a Book of Mormon, and the Spirit. Period. Get over yourselves 'scholars'.
@thelion1944
3 жыл бұрын
Yea verily . . .
@arasethw
4 жыл бұрын
LOL I have contacted LDS , I have contacted archaeologist and anthropologist across the USA and World, Explaining we have found an Advanced Ancient City with Burials in Village of NEGLEY, Middleton twp. Columbiana County, Ohio. With the Largest oldest undocumented Mounds in North America with a triangulated connection to Hill Cumorah and NO ONE IS INTERESTED !!! LOL you are all full of crap until you check out these Burials with headstones LDS ! JUST A NOTE , Ohio Government is permitting the site destroyed for a landfill LOL !!! Pennsylvania has been permitting the Mounds defaced sense the 1960's ! Ohio is now Destroying Our Mounds and Sandstone Slab City with PERMITTED LANDFILLS AND GRAVEL PITS ! SOMEONE DOESN'T WANT YOU TO KNOW AND IS DESTROYING THE EVIDENCE ! HOW DO I KNOW ? I OWN A HUGE DESTROYED HIDDEN UNDER DAMS AND PONDS GRAVE SITE ,AND THE REAR ENTRANCE TO THE CITY WITH STONE LINED ROADS WITH WATER MANAGEMENT ! AND HAVE HAD 2 HOMES TORCHED ATTEMPTING TO LET EVERYONE KNOW !
@Rypaul5217
3 жыл бұрын
ok so if the scholars are right, then does this mean that Moroni marched some 3400 miles up into N. America to a remote hill in Manchester NY just to bury a book of gold in a stone box there some 1400 years ago, aimed conveniently for a man named Joe Smith to find them? seems rather subjective from the story to the author of such a story. Subsequently, it seems to beg the question as to why Moroni would march all that way after the loss of all his people in the Mexico area... But then again, there is not a hint, of weapons or bones, such that proves that there was a great huge battle that took place at the hill Cumorah located in up state NY. nothing, nada, zilch, zero, ...therefore there must be a vacuum in the story itself = fiction. ok that makes a lot more sense to me, seeing how there are no book of gold or stone box to speak of in the first place. Thank you.
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