The messenger is a damn masterpiece. When playing through it I couldn't help but be happy every time I started it up. The intro to the game is so deliciously classic feeling it gives me chills every time. Gameplay is an easy 8/10 but the true shining star of the game is the writing and how the story unfolds. Easily one of my favorite games of all time. I can't wait for some more time to go by so I can play it again without it being fresh in my memory. Seriously if you enjoy ninja gaiden and the SNES era of games go ahead and pick it up, it's worth it at full price but if you can get it on sale you will not regret it.
@ryublade8184
3 ай бұрын
Cyber Shadow is a masterpeice and the best 2d ninja game ever made. The messenger is a very good game, but not a masterpeice (close though). The messenger had some beautiful levels especially that jungle level. But cyber shadow was a boderline spiritual experience and an excellent ode to 80's and 90's cyber punk anime, and videogames.
@GameBoyGuru
3 жыл бұрын
I really enjoyed The Messenger, and it was actually the first game I streamed. I get what you're saying, though, it doesn't quite feel like Ninja Gaiden, particularly when it opens up. I will say, though, you may not have reached the point where you can transition between the past and the future, which is a lot of fun to play with, and really does some creative things, so I would encourage you to go back with fresh eyes later, and give it another go. I haven't played Cybershadow yet, but I followed the development, and it looks awesome. Looking forward to digging into it, at some point.
@ishtiaqueahmed3623
2 жыл бұрын
Cyber shadow is more enjoyable.
@rafael060
2 жыл бұрын
The Messenger simply plays better. It is a natural evolution to the genre, while Cyber Shadow tries too much to be faithful to Ninja Gaiden. Parrying and dashing feels terrible in Cyber Shadow, as does the downward thrust. The Messenger on the other hand has perfect controls. I understand that many are put off by the fact that The Messenger becomes a Metroidvania mid-game, but overrall, it is by far the best game of the two.
@TheElectricUnderground
2 жыл бұрын
I think the style difference between the two is interesting, the messenger does play a lot more like a modern platformer, so I can see what you mean if you find the newer style more appealing :-)
@space.pirate481
Жыл бұрын
The Messenger is too much backtrack and the plot is too comedy
@nesoukkefka1741
2 жыл бұрын
I'd say The Messenger is a more versatile game, the first half feels very like a Ninja Gaiden, albeit you have more options for movement, but it does have the same feeling of Ninja Gaiden in the sense when you master the movement and level design, you can go through the Stages without ever stopping and constantly going forward and breeze through them very fast. I'll agree however that it's not a straight up Ninja Gaiden especially when we enter the Metroidvania part, you can still go through the Level very fast like a Ninja Gaiden, but it gives more puzzle element with it's time travel mechanic, and some level are giant puzzle, and focus more on exploration. All in all The Messenger is just a more diverse game, it borroms from Ninja Gaiden, but also from other licenses, and swap genre going from plateformer to Metroidvania and one section is even a Shmup, which I think is great personnaly but yeah if you're looking for a full plateformer like Ninja Gaiden, I can see why you would be disappointed.
@TheElectricUnderground
2 жыл бұрын
For me the messenger feels a lot like a Mario game, since it tends to emphasize environmental hazards vs enemies
@nesoukkefka1741
2 жыл бұрын
@@TheElectricUnderground I guess that's one way to see it. In any case thanks for the Cyber Shadow discovery, completly missed that game, once my backlog has reduce a but I'll give this game a try ^^
@nesoukkefka1741
Жыл бұрын
@@TheElectricUnderground So in the end I picked Cyber Shadow and recently finish it. I really liked it despite some minor grip. I have a hard time calling it a true Ninja Gaiden successor tough, the way the game is designed is very different. In fact funny enough I actually see more similarities with the Mega Man series than the than Ninja Gaiden specifically with the Mega Man X and Zero series between the cyberpunk setting, the villain being a mad scientist, the Ninja Clan having the same role as the Maverick Hunter in Mega Man X, some similar ennemies, the bike section (God I hated it tough), heck even the way you control Shadow is not so far of the way you control Zero Jump, Slash, Dash, Wall Jump, Charged attacks, no crouching and the upgrade you get aren't to far of the EX Skills you unlock for Zero are the additionnal chips he gets in the Zero series, I dunno this game was screaming Mega Man to me XD. But while it has similarities it does manage to be it's own thing, and compare to Ninja Gaiden I think it's less fast pace overall, it does have the "die and retry until you master the gameplay" aspect tough, it's also much more fair, no Life system, no ennemies respawn and almost no RNG it's all in the learning. As for comparing to The Messenger I just think at the end of the day they are both great games, but with different game-design philosophy in mind, Cyber Shadow has definitly more diversity on ennemies and they play a bigger roles in the game, it's overall definitly more "Arcade" compare to The Messenger. One downside to Cyber Shadow in my eyes compare to Messenger is while Messenger mechanic became progressivly more fun and diverse, in other word the progression is more consistent I'll say, in the meanwhile Cyber Shadow's most important movements are only gotten at about Half the game, the Sprint, Sprint Dash and Double Jump are complete game changer they completly change the experience and after you get it it's almost like you're playing a completly different game, and once you get to that point the gameplay become freaking amazing and satisfying as fuck, but it's unfortunate that to get that point you have to go through than half of the game and until that point the game, while still pretty fun to play, is pretty basic and does nothing outstanding, also doesn't help that a section after you finally get all your moveset force you into a bike section follow by another section in a mech, which were my least favorite part of the game.
@pjsaltwaster6809
3 жыл бұрын
Any BambooBois in chat? ShazBotstix
@ShmupJunkie
3 жыл бұрын
Cyber Shadow looks like a game I'd enjoy playing so thanks for showing it. Fundamentally it does seem more like NG. The original Ninja Gaiden gameplay is all about forward momentum and timing, and your precision with it, which is why I always loved it and it's been my favorite NES series, especially the first two. The moment you backtrack you get overwhelmed by respawning enemies, the designers specifically wanted you to keep moving and get into a flow. That's why it's so fun to run through any time. And you can always tell within a few seconds of someone playing it if they've mastered it or are floundering or figuring it out. A lot of early NES games were like that, even Contra or the first Vania, most stages you're always moving forward to stay in the flow and there's always a way to run through the level perfectly without a break in your movement. It ends up spawning all the enemies exactly where you want them to be. In NG you hesitate, you die, it throws everything off and the flow of the level. Your route is very pre-planned, just like a shmup actually. 😬
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
Yes ninja gaiden nes has some real arcade roots, no doubt about it! I think shadow is much more along the same lines but with a dash of snes stuff like mega man x and super metroid. The difficulty gets real too!
@huevonesunltd
3 жыл бұрын
Castlevania, Ninja gaiden and Contra are games that get much easier if you go forward without stopping, that or they become much harder if you move to the opposite direction at all, if you wanted you can learn how to speedrun the whole game in 1 day the same way you would practice or learn the route of 1 stage in a shmup. The only "disadvantage" with this game design that i can think of is that there's little room to express yourself like there is in Super Metroid. In Super Metroid, just as an example, you can tell who is playing just by looking at their movement. The messenger is more similar to super metroid in that regard so i would say Cyber Shadow is the one that feels more like Ninja gaiden. You guys should try Rabi-Ribi, Shmup junkies love that game but not many of them have played it, similar to Super Metroid, Megaman and Touhou, it speaks to fighting game players too if you play on the Harder difficulties, sometimes it feels like you are playing against someone online instead of playing against a script like in Cuphead for example. Just don't let how it looks fool you, most misleading hardcore game ever.
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
@@huevonesunltd in case you haven't seen my super metroid vid kzitem.info/news/bejne/yqur2ZpnbHWmY5g :-)
@ashsherman
3 жыл бұрын
Castlevania 3 really was the beat og style . It had part 1 gameplay but the fact we had all those characters. Simons quest was a rpg but i dug it. Hardest Castlevania ever. Imagine a remake. I loved the messenger still. It wasnt a Ninja gaiden clone, it was a kick ass indie platformer iver a crazy fast action game. There's a really upgraded Ninja platformer , maybe even HD but a remaster for sure. Anyone know which Ninja platformer that was. Like a shinobi rip off.
@dantepatel
2 жыл бұрын
What I love about Ninja Gaiden compared to the other NES games though is how fast it is. I wanted to get into the Castlevania games, but the walk speed is just much too slow for my level of patience. EDIT: Also, you made a VERY good point about the backtracking thing, I never thought about it like that. I think I like how they encourage forward momentum and punish moving back, it gets you to adapt to the flow.
@petercap2398
3 жыл бұрын
mark its really obvious at this point that you have great things to say about a lot more than just shmups. keep it up.
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
I m really happy to hear that :-) yes this vid was really fun to put together ❤
@scienceandmatter8739
3 жыл бұрын
Another cavern part of THE "elektrische untergrund"
@reecealdo3707
3 жыл бұрын
i realize I am kinda randomly asking but do anyone know of a good place to watch newly released series online?
@needleman08
2 жыл бұрын
7:24 "The Metroidvania is basically like the 2D version of open world games." I like how that is phrased, it is the 100% truth
@TheElectricUnderground
2 жыл бұрын
Oh thank you! Yes I think that s a great way to describe the genre ha
@blueshot333
11 ай бұрын
But i thought metroidvania is only open world only when the specific conditions in-game are satisfied Like finding weapons or keys to unlock another area
@ChromeKong
10 ай бұрын
I‘d argue that Metroidvanias often are tighter crafted and while having some backtracking they don‘t waste your time with the emptiness and randomness of many open world games.
@UToobUsername01
8 ай бұрын
There are two types of these games: 1. RPG ones with stats and gear. You kill a monster and it drops some equipment like RPG game. Symphony of the Night pioneered this. 2. adventure (the emphasis is on exploration and puzzles and it feels like an action adventure platformer like Pitfall or Tombraider where you still need skill with your jumps and movement. Combat is important but you don't level things up through experience points)
@MagnetGenocide
3 жыл бұрын
You forgot the most important thing about The Messenger. All the tracks are bangers!! best OST I've heard in years!!!
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
Oh yeah both are fantastic ost :-)
@censoredterminalautism4073
3 жыл бұрын
Absolutely essential for something that wants to be like Ninja Gaiden to any extent. Even more important for difficult games, an OST that gives you UNBREAKABLE DETERMINATION, if you get the reference.
@ingobauer6144
3 жыл бұрын
What turned me off of the Messanger was the dreadful, self-aware writing.
@schlarptarf3675
3 жыл бұрын
Right! And not to forget that the soundtrack exists in 8-bit and 16-bit style. Transitioning in sync with the graphics. I loved that feature
@H-TownGamer
8 ай бұрын
I actually preferred CS music !
@jeantoor7103
2 жыл бұрын
Great video. It really saddens me to see how much negative feedback Cyber Shadow have got, mainly because it was not "Messenger". Will never understand this logic. " Both games are about ninjas so they must be pretty similar, duh." As you pointed out, they are waaay different from each other at the core gameplay process.
@TheElectricUnderground
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah especially since cyber shadow is better than the Messenger :-)
@nolankuffner3573
Жыл бұрын
@@TheElectricUnderground a better poor man's NG maybe. If it did literally anything new, it would be worth more people playing it. But let me be blunt: if Yacht Club wasn't involved, 90% of it's fans wouldn't care. At all. Cyber Shadow is a game for people too simple to travel 5 miles without GPS leading them by the nose. It's a fast Castlevania and insulting to mention Ninja Gaiden in the same breath.
@mannyomega713
Жыл бұрын
@@nolankuffner3573 cyber shadow was too hard for you
@toekneemart5597
11 ай бұрын
@@nolankuffner3573dude, I prefer the messenger and I still think this take is bad
@Jockolantern
2 жыл бұрын
Cyber Shadow is the clear victor. And it's not close.
@TheElectricUnderground
2 жыл бұрын
Indeed!
@H-TownGamer
8 ай бұрын
I agree too much better game
@boghogSTG
3 жыл бұрын
Bloodstained Curse of the Moon is really similar to Ninja Gaiden if you never recruit/kill any characters and just play as Zangetsu solo
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
Oh that s cool! I remember hearing about that game
@neondagger
3 жыл бұрын
@@TheElectricUnderground It's excellent! Maybe a bit too easy but really fun. It came to mind for me as well.
@boghogSTG
3 жыл бұрын
@@TheElectricUnderground Would def recommend the first one, and while I haven't played 2 it looks like more of the same which is great
@nesoukkefka1741
2 жыл бұрын
Actually IMO with Zangetsu solo and all his power it reminds me more of Shinobi 3 than Ninja Gaiden.
@digitalworms
Жыл бұрын
Ya bloodstained is really solid! Feels like playing Castlevania 3 again!
@ILikebread70
2 жыл бұрын
I’m actually playing both of these games simultaneously, loving both of them so far, the messenger has better dialogue though cause it’s so funny 🤣
@philmason9653
3 жыл бұрын
It's so weird to me that NES Ninja Gaiden & Shadow of the Ninja laid down the template for exactly how a ninja game should handle, but game designers still spent most of the 16-bit era having their ninjas idly strolling through life. It's so weird going back & playing Shadow Dancer, and your character won't even break into a light jog to get out of the way of certain death. I'm not sure a 16-bit game ever improved on those 8-bit games until Shinobi III, which feels a lot more like these modern indie titles. (Speaking of, that cloud step mechanic in Messenger reminds me a lot of how PS2 Shinobi plays).
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
Ohhhh I need to get after shenobi next
@philmason9653
3 жыл бұрын
@@TheElectricUnderground Shinobi III is one of the absolute best 16-bit action games there is (Shadow Dancer's great too, just very deliberate in how it plays). Unfortunately PS2 Shinobi was a game with some absolutely awesome gameplay ideas that the developers just couldn't quite pull off.
@simonebernacchia5724
2 жыл бұрын
@@TheElectricUnderground Surprise Attack is a Shinobi in orbit, included dual plane action and trivias(!)
@HeavyMetalSonicRM
Жыл бұрын
Cyber Shadow is more in line with Ninja Gaiden and it's great, but The Messenger is the better game. The writing, alone, is incredible.
@H-TownGamer
8 ай бұрын
I honestly couldn’t get into it, I think cyber shadow is the better game with a much more consistent design
@censoredterminalautism4073
3 жыл бұрын
I didn't know about these games at all, but just by looking at Cyber Shadow for a second or two I could tell that it's the real deal because of the movement. The character moves a lot like Ryu, and that's what makes Ninja Gaiden what it is. It does look worth playing for sure.
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
Gonna stream it tonight
@danieljacks2988
3 жыл бұрын
You have become my favorite channel. Hopefully you can pick up some momentum and cross that youtube poverty line soon.
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
I m really happy to hear that! Yes that is the goal!
@theconsolekiller7113
2 жыл бұрын
Great breakdown. Cyber Shadow was great. Enjoyed that one. The Messenger I stopped playing since there was some exploration required but would like to go back and kill it off. It seems very cool too. Raizon EX is also great. Appreciate the review of that.
@TheElectricUnderground
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah the 2nd half of the messenger was a bummer
@theconsolekiller7113
2 жыл бұрын
@@TheElectricUnderground Yea. Similiar to you, even the slightest bit of exploration can kill the flow of the game for me. Im horrible with navigation and dont really want to be looking up directions all the time. I enjoy linear super challenging gameplay. Some exploration can be fun if Im playing Dark Souls or some modern games but alot of games dont do it in a way I find satisfying. Its rare for me. I liked Cyber Shadow much more for that reason alone. Great gameplay too. I dont know if I even made it to the second half of messenger but I remember there was something I didnt feel like figuring out very early on. ha ha.
@BBrecht
3 жыл бұрын
The game Cyber Shadow reminded me most of was the Sunsoft NES Batman game - this is a good thing!
@salvatoredidio9424
3 жыл бұрын
It's Strange Cyber Shadow reminds me of Blue Shadow from Natsume on the NES.
@rushiosan
3 жыл бұрын
I really loved every bit of The Messenger (DLC included), but after playing both, I'd say Cyber Shadow is the better "Ninja Gaiden" game when it comes to consistency and tone. It's a shame its achievements are a bit frustrating and the replay value isn't in the same league as Shovel Knight.
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
Yes! I do wish Cyber shadow was a bit more condensed, I think it would add to the replay value.
@MomockDamock
Жыл бұрын
The "merchant" dialogue is the best part of The Messenger. The metroidesque part was pretty lame, the transdimensional portals were severely underused and the level design was boring (I guess in part because it also needed to work as levels). Well, at least they tried something. Now they know that the main appeal of the metroid genre is to slowly reveal and own the map, not coming back to disjointed parts of it through TP to collect some shit...
@NESADDICT
2 жыл бұрын
My last name is Crouch. If there is no crouch this game isn’t for me. 🤣 jk looks great!
@TheElectricUnderground
2 жыл бұрын
crouch is an under-rated mechanic for sure, it often ends up being much more powerful then people expect.
@lob5645
3 жыл бұрын
You should check out Oniken. Oniken was released before either of these games and is more like NES Ninja Gaiden than both of them. That said, as someone who also prefers combat and setpieces over platforming, Cyber Shadow looks neat and I'll get around to playing it sometime.
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
oh very cool! I'll check it out :-D
@H-TownGamer
8 ай бұрын
Cyber shadow is more true to Ninja Gaiden. Messenger is like a Metroidvania/adventure tale that’s just not retro ninja Gaiden.
@aarter2913
2 жыл бұрын
As someone that did have a decent time with ninja gaiden a while back despite being unfamiliar with most older games like it, I think I enjoyed the messenger more for not being that lol. While I did like how ninja giaden had sometimes more methodical gameplay with dealing with enemy placement and managing more interesting powerups, i think I enjoyed the flow and mobility of the messenger more, especially when you had the all the major abilities at the end. Ironically tho, the supposed "metroidvania" part i had already been spoiled on and expected the game to get bogged down like I heard some people say, hardly felt like a metroidvania at all. I guess it still is technically, but there wasnt much more upgrades really and the levels you were asked to go back to were still mostly the same linear levels with just a extra couple of passages at most, and were just a remixed linear level at least. And if you did find the completely new levels through the bit of exploration and fetch quests there was to do, each new level ended up being 100% linear self contained experiences. There was still a pacing issue for this part where it felt a bit long at a couple points, but it did feel like the game still made an effort to keep that straightforward platforming feel. I am interested in cyber shadow from your description tho cuz a ninja gaiden-esque game with some combat abilities from platformers I enjoy more than the more arcadey ones ninja giaden offered sounds really up my alley.
@TheAgentAPM
2 жыл бұрын
*plays music from Cyber Shadow for the entire video* Yeah, I wonder who will win...
@TheElectricUnderground
2 жыл бұрын
I do like the music better :-)
@simonebernacchia5724
2 жыл бұрын
@@TheElectricUnderground Has a mixed NES/samples styles that am using in some of my own protracker soundtracks - it also use less RAM
@CrocvsGator
3 жыл бұрын
I have to say, as someone who has played Shadow of the Ninja, Strider, Shadow of The Ninja, and has played Cyber Shadow and The Messenger, I actually prefer The Messenger. I kind of view The Messenger as more in line with the recent Metroidvania Strider than Ninja Gaiden, actually. To explain my tastes, my top 3 games are Megaman 2 , Xenoblade 1, and Golden Sun. I will say that also, story is something I enjoy, and I was enthralled by The Messenger's story, and I couldn't really care about Cyber Shadow's story. I would recommend even if you don't like the Metroidvania part of the Messenger, I would really recommend the dlc of the The Messenger. It tones down the Metroidvania parts and just goes into more arcade like action. Edit: I meant to say Ninja Gaiden Trilogy instead of Shadow of The Ninja twice, my bad.
@LimitedEye
3 жыл бұрын
Man Megaman 2? That’s definitely nostalgia talking. But I agree with what you’re saying
@CrocvsGator
3 жыл бұрын
@@LimitedEye It's funny, because while I do have an NES, I don't have a cart of Megaman 2. I have played it on wii first (I was born in the mid 90s) btw. I will say I think it's the soundtrack that elevates it for me.
@ashcliffeable
3 жыл бұрын
Have you played Golden Sun lately? The gameplay holds up but the writing is atrocious. The story is really held back by dumbed-down writing. I felt like I personally attacked my childhood when I discovered that. Would love to know what you (a random internet stranger) thinks of it because I feel like a lot of Golden Sun fans, who grew up with the game, refuse to reevaluate it.
@CrocvsGator
3 жыл бұрын
@@ashcliffeable I mean I've heard that a lot. I actually replay it bi-annually. And thing is, the gameplay does hold up, (although if we take The Lost Age into account, some of the dungeons are a little longer than they should be) Also before I get into what I thought of the story, I never said Golden Sun is the BEST game, more that it is my favorite game (part of that has to do with the fact that my Dad, who knows next to nothing about video games, did research and tried to find a game I enjoyed) As for my story thoughts, I will say I have seen WAY worse. My personal philosophy, which is admittedly uncommon, is when someone tells you writing doesn't hold up in something you enjoy, don't compare it to something better, compare it to something completely terrible. Like I have seen a game where the final boss is the ghost of the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs. Anyway, I'm going to summarize my thoughts on the story in the next post, I feel this is too much of a wall of text.
@CrocvsGator
3 жыл бұрын
As for my thoughts on Golden Sun's story itself, I will say it's nowhere near the best story I've played in a game. Admittedly, I've played games with zero dialogue that have made me cry (linelight, journey, Unravel 1) but here's the thing about Golden Sun. It's trying to convey an early JRPG story, it's plot is literally based on early FF games, revolving around 4 elemental crystals and whatnot. And for that, I think it carries the plot ok for what it is. I should also say, I don't know what problems you have with the writing and story exactly, I'd need some examples to address. Because there are some accurate complaints I've heard and some inaccurate complaints. But as for complaints I've commonly heard, people sometimes say that the party is constantly going and fixing problems in towns they come across instead of focusing on the antagonists. That's kinda addressed in story though, the antagonists are either causing chaos with the express interest in slowing pursuers down, or hiring others to cause chaos. Yes, they could probably wipe the floor with the party up until later in the game, but the party isn't the only group they're concerned about. And also, because they're so powerful, the antagonists sometimes just blow past puzzles, which makes it more difficult for the party to traverse later. Another complaint I hear is that there's not much characterization or character development. I will give you that the idea to have Isaac be silent in the first game while Felix talks in the first game, only to have the reverse case in the second game, is really stupid. Yeah, I get it's almost early JRPG tradition, and it's supposed to be putting your shoes in the character and whatnot, but both Isaac and Felix already have defined goals, and it's super jarring when they do talk to try to put a personality on them. (Sidenote: I do think silent protagonists are lame trope in general, with one major exception being characters who actually are mute to some extent.) But I will say, some characters who get complaints don't really deserve it. My go to is Agatio from the Lost Age. Some complaints I've heard call him a big oafish brute, but in the story itself he says he knows Alex is manipulating him, but Agatio just can't really bring himself to care. Anyway, let me know if you have other particular problems with the story or writing, I'll let you know my thoughts. And if you were wondering my thoughts on Dark Dawn, I'll put those below this one.
@segatouringcar3738
2 жыл бұрын
I haven't played the Messenger yet (I guess one day I will), but from the videos and comments I've seen it gives me the impression that it's the typical indie game that rises to the skies for some unknown reason (I really think that by pure posture xD). And I'm not saying that it's a bad game or anything like that, but the media coverage sometimes makes you think badly xD In any case, Cyber Shadow is a WONDERFUL game, drinking heavily from the Famicom classic Blue Shadow, too. The timings in the platform sections are a pure work of art. And the maneuverability of the Ninja is simply amazing.
@TheElectricUnderground
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah I think the messenger had that marketing push but gameplay wise it is a typical Western indie shmup made in the Nintendo style
@lukelowe918
Жыл бұрын
I enjoyed both games, however I have only beaten Messanger 1 time and Cyber Shadow I have beaten multiple times. I think Cyber Shadow is more of NES style game and that's why I like it more.
@huevonesunltd
3 жыл бұрын
@The Electric Underground. If you haven't played Rabi-Ribi you are missing out a lot considering you like pretty much the exact combination of games that i like and share my opinions on games (Super metroid, Super Punch Out, Shmups,Touhou, classic beat em ups, fighting games) I am pretty sure you will love it, you might not like how it looks but it is the perfect example of don't judge a game by it's cover. There are few games i consider being "perfect" and that is one of them, eventhough Super Metroid,Ninja gaiden, Super Punch Out, Rosenkreuzstilette are among my favorite games i am aware of many flaws these games have that i cannot defend, but Rabi-Ribi and Celeste are among the few games that i know that i can consider perfect in every way (music, difficulty design, controls,movement, "express yourself factor" and "gameplay density") Shmup players who pick it up can't stop playing it pretty much, it might start slow but it slowly gets better and better up until the very end in the DLC which has the true final boss If you try it play it on Hard on the first playtrough, thats what i did and felt like an experience. (There are 4 more difficulties above hard so it's no unreasonably hard)
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
Yo this sounds super interesting, I 've never heard of this game before but I am looking it up right now! :-)
@huevonesunltd
3 жыл бұрын
@@TheElectricUnderground It is super metroid combined with a bullet hell with gravity involved, there's literally no game similar to it. If you're bored of Easy games you will feel right at home , it will challenge you, also your shmup fundamentals will carry over to that game you might want to try a harder difficulty for the first playtrough if you want to feel the difficulty right away. The bosses are the highlight of the game, every boss is a shmup also has beat em up elements I will tell you this, i have finished the game, doing achievements trying the other character and difficulties, i currently have 200 hours into the game and STILL i am not done with the stuff i have left to do in the game (and i doing it because i want to not because i have to), i am glad that even after 200 hours the game still keeps challenging me for more hours to come. You know you got a good game on your hands when the only bad thing the bad reviews on steam can say about the game is "it's too hard"
@arcimagogix9034
3 жыл бұрын
Celeste was an absurd surprise to me. There will never be greater satisfaction like finishing all the levels in that game (b, c side + chapter 9 are some of the coolest things I've ever played). I did not know the other title but given your excellent tastes I will certainly take a look too
@t.w.460
3 жыл бұрын
Hey Joe, wanna play a Ninja-Game.. !? :)
@tokyobassist
3 жыл бұрын
I feel like both are inspired by NG but play nothing like them for better or worse depending on your taste. I personally didn't like Messenger once it became a Metroidvania. Cyber Shadow was dope but it felt more like a Shadow of the Ninja but faster. The only thing that struck me as NG was the unforgiving ass checkpoints.
@ashsherman
3 жыл бұрын
I couldnt think if the name, that's it. Shadow of Ninja was the one with a fresh coat of paint, a remaster. I know iy's on Switch, not certain where else. Unfortunately messenger was removed from xbox gamepass while i was still in 8-bit mode but i loved it so far. Barely scratched the surface .
@xHanabiran
2 күн бұрын
Played the messenger for an hour or so. The game was the oposite of what i was looking for - a tight, classic arcade designed platformer. So many elements i dont enjoy in this game.
@kagemara277
Жыл бұрын
Man I gave up too when Messenger turned into a metroidvania LOL, but Cyber Shadow is the tighter experience overall, but Messenger has a great soundtrack and some good items but the focus on platforming is clear where Cyber Shadow is more about combat! I also like the comment how todays journalists judge games just for being metroidvania! Not every game is suitable for this. The same with Open World. I might be one of the few, but I didn’t like Elden Ring for being open world! I am not saying it’s a bad game, but I feel making a linear game often takes more effort to design it properly(thumbs up to Dark Souls and Bloodborne;). Open World if not made right can be a hit or miss and to me you just spend ages more just running around and searching-it’s an artificial game length extender( with the exception of Tears of the Kingdom-new love of mine-because the world is just too great). Anyway, great points as always on both games and the industry overall! I just ordered the Master collection- haven’t played it for ages and can’t wait to replay it:) If I can just ask you- could you make a comparison how you would rank some top hack and slash games on highest difficulty? Like DMC 3, Bayonetta 3, DMCV, Ninja Gaiden 2, W101, Astral Chain. I am curious how you would rank the combat and what challenges are brought to the player on the highest difficulty. Thanks a lot for amazing content!
@TheElectricUnderground
Жыл бұрын
Yeah they are really different games in the end, despite the premise of them being similar on paper ha. Goes to show you how much slight changes in game mechanics and level design shift a game's overall feel.
@kagemara277
Жыл бұрын
@@TheElectricUnderground is Ninja Gaiden 2 your most favourite hack and slash and most replayed? I am also currently searching for more games where not everything is served to the player on a silver platter, where you discover secret mechanics on your own and that’s where the gameplay opens up. For me I really loved Astral’s Chain combat, but the flow stutters during those story exploration missions-which makes sense they included it, it just made the game less replayable. But the combo pause, and juggling with multiple chimeras, starting a combo with one weapon, pausing that combo and going deeper with specials/aerial, etc-it was great to me. Now you got me hyped for NG2 because I remember how great the gameplay was when you master dodge and parry/ wall jumps, grabs and charges.
@petercap2398
3 жыл бұрын
just got to the point in the vid where you said you hadn't finished the messenger. do yourself a favor and play through it if only to get to the dlc. parts of the dlc are much more challenging and you might really enjoy it.
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
Ok I 'll check it out! Will have to grab a guide or something ha
@Pixel_Padre
3 жыл бұрын
Neither game really matches the original Ninja Gaiden trilogy, not that they need to, as both are great in their own right. That said, the NES games have tighter pacing than either of these new titles. Very few foes in NG 1-3 required multiple hits to take down. Combined with brief stages, the pacing was thus lightning fast, despite no dash ability. The real enemy was the bottomless pits.
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
Yes absolutely!
@censoredterminalautism4073
3 жыл бұрын
Yes, the way that Ninja Gaiden flows is incredible. You are constantly either moving forward (or jumping on walls), jumping over enemies and attacking while jumping, and everything you do feels just fast enough that it feels great and you never really have to stop for very long. Considering that it's a game that was kinda made to break your soul, the fact that it feels so nice is what really makes it addictive enough to not be too frustrating to be worth beating. By the time you beat it, your fingers are almost literally playing the game on their own, since the end of the game demands a level of execution that is pretty close to perfection. One of the most memorable experiences that you can have in gaming.
@ashsherman
3 жыл бұрын
@@censoredterminalautism4073 the OG Sould Borne genre in 2D withot a doubt. Any1 remember the shooter KARZOV? Sounded russian but you looked like a fat genie who shot all kinds of powers but sidescroll platformer shooter which had arcade game and NES cart It was awesome then, not sure if it holds up like R-type or Darius
@gjergjaurelius9798
3 жыл бұрын
@@ashsherman 🤔.... you mean karnov?🤣 Hell yeah I love the game data east classic! He's in a fighting game karnov's revenge and the 1st level boss in bad dudes!
@gcavrubio
3 жыл бұрын
The Messenger is practically perfect... until it reaches the metroidvania part. Still haven't played Cyber Shadow. Just waiting for a sale.
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah wish it stuck with the linear platforming
@Gmany01
3 жыл бұрын
I’m my opinion it’s the opposite, while I love linear platforming metroidvania is one of my favorite game genres
@theinvisibleskulk4563
3 жыл бұрын
You know, I didn't like when The Messenger opened up either but that's because (and bear with me here), it didn't really turn into a Metroidvania at all. You already gain all your mobility upgrades before this point, so you can tackle all the new challenges in basically any order, and all you gain at this point is gate key type of items that unlock passage in a single place. The low number of fast travel points also really hurts the game, not to mention that all the ones in previously accessible areas are down very difficult side paths. And other aspects of the game like the penalties for dying and the player's low life gauge don't sync well with Metroidvania gameplay.
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah I think it was a neat idea in concept but not practice
@flutebasket4294
2 жыл бұрын
The main problem with The Messenger is that it is too long. It's an old-school NES game jammed into the template of modern gaming -- still liked it enough to platinum it, though. Heck, I even found it superior to Shovel Knight!
@TheElectricUnderground
2 жыл бұрын
Agreed the whole Metroid section should have been cut and the game stick to the linear platforming, doing both is odd and not that well designed I don t think
@brya9681
2 жыл бұрын
Metroidvanias a re awesome damnit! Good lord you skip through story? Yuck
@TheElectricUnderground
2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely!! I agree the story is yuck :-)
@Friariello91
2 жыл бұрын
@@TheElectricUnderground The Messenger story is funny as hell! I was mad about that it hasn't been translated in my language (italian)... how can you skip the dialogs!? Seriously man, give it a chance. Maybe is not a pure NG style, but is high quality. It even has a free DLC!
@TheNameIsSR
Ай бұрын
Think it's a shame you dropped the Messenger when it introduced it's 'metroidvania map', as I'd argue the game still stays pretty linear even after opening up. At least, a lot more linear then other metroidvanias I've played.
@steparnicus
3 жыл бұрын
I also dropped The Messenger immediately after the Metroidvania elements came in! I hope the channel keeps going from strength to strength. It’s been so refreshing to see content that aligns so much with my own tastes. I’ve recently been getting back into shmups thanks to your channel and shmupjunkie. I hope you continue to cover shmup content but I definitely think you’ve got great things to say about games with “arcade dna”, which I think is a niche that is missing quality content like yours. (I picked up Fight N Rage on your recommendation and loved it!) Wishlisted Cyber Shadow based on this as well, looks like the Ninja game I was after too
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
hey what a great comment! Yes I am definitely going to mix in some arcade rooted stuff into the channel more, along with shmups :-D I'm really happy to hear you enjoyed the vid!
@steparnicus
3 жыл бұрын
@@TheElectricUnderground Also I definitely want to see a God Hand video from you 😁
@IBigDickI
11 ай бұрын
Damn the metroidvania aspect of the messenger is great. Sad to hear ya dropped it.
@flickering_wick
Ай бұрын
Cyber Shadow is one of the best 2D games ever, IMO. The Messenger I got so bored with it that I didn't even care to finish it.
@PaulGuzman-zk7kw
3 ай бұрын
Loved the OG No nja Gaiden trilogy but damn I hated those f'n birds thats would knock you off platforms, lost count how many I would rage quit on these games. Good times 😅
@jenskuhn3701
3 ай бұрын
Cyber Shadow wins definitively. But it has also some cons: 1. it is too hard, so not friendly with the new generation who play less with the hard games 2. tooooo short. I can image I will buy it with double price and double lenth.
@bryantnonya8704
6 ай бұрын
This game was inspired by the legendary shadow of the Ninja!! If you a real gamer from the '90s you know about Shadow of the ninja! Seriously though this game had a code that let you play co-op and it really is an overlooked classic from the NES library.
@thomasffrench3639
8 ай бұрын
Honestly I find Ninja Gaiden becoming a Metroidvania to be very fitting as Ninja Gaiden was pretty much a Castlevania clone with the same hud and buttons. Although I haven’t played any of these games. Although it sucks that it was a bait n switch for you. Like Ninja Gaiden but a Metroidvania makes me interested instead of playing a game Ive already played. I like the first Ninja Gaiden game, and if I want more Ninja Gaiden, I would just play the sequels
@AmazingOwnage
7 ай бұрын
Cyber Shadow is hard! I wish you had more of the movement options available in the beginning because I can see people dropping it before it gets “good” with all the movement and combat options. I was not a fan of the button inputs for special attacks though. Why is an upward fireball attack initiated by pressing down? No sense.
@The-Zer0th-Law
5 ай бұрын
Answering the title ahead of time: Neither. They both take ideas from multiple sources, like Ninja Gaiden, Strider, Shinobi, and none of them carries enough bullshit to be Ninja Gaiden through and through
@HerbieChuckNorris
9 ай бұрын
I'm with you on never beating the Messenger past the Metroidvania switch-up. I so, so, so wish that it remained a linear game! Was such a jarring change and i felt done with the game at that point, so having it turn around and says there's more, but nothing like the stuff I actually enjoyed was a major turn off but perhaps I'll return to it someday.
@thommccarthy1139
9 ай бұрын
I'm sure you talk about this in one of your vids but curious on your take regarding roguelikes/lites. I'd imagine you strongly prefer very manicured experiences but I'd appreciate a rant on roguelike action platformers like Dead Cells etc.
@Erk1234567
3 жыл бұрын
As someone who ALSO dropped The Messenger when the game opened up (I generally enjoy Metroidvanias, but when I play a NES throwback title, I want a game that's structured like an NES game lol), you just sold me on Cyber Shadow.
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
Glad to hear it!!
@Erk1234567
3 жыл бұрын
@@seanmcbay I know you know what I meant.
@LimitedEye
3 жыл бұрын
@@seanmcbay Metroid on the nes is nothing like super Metroid or other metroidvanias so his point stands
@timothykirby4406
Жыл бұрын
Agreed! I really enjoy Cyber Shadow.
@TheElectricUnderground
Жыл бұрын
Damn right
@Revz8bit
Жыл бұрын
The part in The Messenger when it becomes a Metroidvania is where the game goes from being kinda mid to being gaming gold. IMO anyway
@wc999
5 ай бұрын
wishlisted cyber shadow... thanks for your great video on these 2 games
@Squalid
Жыл бұрын
hahaha! I too dropped the game after the medtroidvania like part, that killed the game for me and I know you would feel something like that
@krosigrim
2 жыл бұрын
I learned from the WR holder of the NG Trilogy, that the trilogy will eat inputs. (ESPECIALLY 3) So it has that negative going for it, on top of music that is inferior. The ports were badly done. I played through The Messenger. Great game. I never heard of Cyber-Shadow... oddly enough LUL. Gonna have to pick that up. But considering I've never played it... the game that really felt in line with the challenge I seek... was Dead Cells. OK OK Apples n Oranges. But hear me out. Fast n percice execution. Frantic pace. Definitely requires sharp reflexes. And feels so swag pulling of ninja-ish movements. OK yea, by comparison the stages are random. Multiple paths yet linear progression. You got alot of weapons to choose from. Swords, Hammers & Bows... A slew of sub weapons that also don't compare to NG. Leveling up attributes. 3D assets with pixel filter (I think) But it feels so right. The Messenger is a great game but... it didn't beat me down like NG or Dead Cells does. Nor does it feel as awesome. I know this is a divergence from your comparison, but figured it's worth mentioning. And now I gotta go pick up this... Cyber-Shadow!
@TheElectricUnderground
2 жыл бұрын
Oh that s a bummer about trilogy!
@stolensentience
4 ай бұрын
Cyber shadow was an amazing little game, with a very big let down of a final boss
@MasterDecoy1W
4 ай бұрын
Damn, skipping all the dialogue in The Messenger? Based.
@greyrhebok
3 жыл бұрын
Pogo stick was probably inspired by Duck Tales or Shovel Knight I wish Cyber Shadow had duck though
@abubakarejaz5539
2 ай бұрын
Both are some pure gems for the people who've played retro games.
@gjergjaurelius9798
3 жыл бұрын
All this talk about shadow of the ninja, ninja gaiden but no love for ..... NINJA CRUSADERS! 🤯🤟🏻💯
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
Oh snap ha! I ve never played it
@NESADDICT
2 жыл бұрын
I got really lucky and got shadow of the ninja in the wild for $5 about 5 years ago.
@TheElectricUnderground
2 жыл бұрын
That's awesome! Yeah I bet the prices are crazy now.
@NESADDICT
2 жыл бұрын
@@TheElectricUnderground not terribly bad I’d guess between 60-100
@snake_eagle
Жыл бұрын
Idk these are the retro gaiden games old dudes like myself can put up with.
@davemcauley8181
3 ай бұрын
Why can’t you duck / crouch in cyber shadow whyyyy ?
@elanwebster3647
3 жыл бұрын
Nice vid, Mark, just a quick heads up tho, I seem to recall the reviews didnt like the metvania thing, seems it wasn't so popular. Even speedrunners avoid it, just focussing on the 8bit section:)
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
That s really interesting, I just recall the initial press and awards the game got, maybe they didn t make it to that section ha. Also I was speaking more generally with games like hollow knight and axiom verge
@ashsherman
3 жыл бұрын
@@TheElectricUnderground was Axiom any good? I remember initially it didnt review well, i mean compared to what was expected. I keep saying we need a remake of Simpn's Quest. Total remake but not openworld, keep it platformer and 2 or 2.5 D.
@samsukut3714
9 ай бұрын
Messenger was better for me. Both are the shiznit.
@reggielacey2235
3 жыл бұрын
They are both meh, compared to the ninja gaiden franchise
@emiliodiaz3927
2 жыл бұрын
.
@deuzdeuz8115
3 жыл бұрын
I was really hyper by The Messenger but finaly get bored by it. I really want to play Cyber Shadow though, which looks like one of my favorite Indie game: Oniken (you should try it 😉)
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
Oh cool I'll add it to the list!!
@truepatriot6657
2 жыл бұрын
I'd say everyone should play both, they are really great games , both tried to be like ninja gaiden but both feel very different from each other
@TheElectricUnderground
2 жыл бұрын
Yes I like cyber shadow more but the messenger is fun in a Mario bros style up until it goes open world, then it s lame ha
@Mingodough
3 жыл бұрын
Ahhhh okay. I guess yacht club never disappoints lol, me and my gf bonded over shovel knight so I guess we’ll bond with cyber shadow once one of us gets it. As for the messenger I guess you put the nail in the head. Other than 2d Metroid and the wonder boy games I never really liked Metroidvanias. Even tried hollow knight for 10 hours but I only got 2 upgrades in those 10 hours so I was like “cool it’s stretched out af” and you said Celeste bad meat boy. I also tried those games but for me I just really need to kill something in a game as messed up as that is, so despite trying those two as well, I never hooked and while the messenger you can kill things, like you said the enemies are there more so to platform rather than to actual annoy you. Makes me more hyped to try out cyber shadow eventually. Especially with that mega man x esc dash
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah I feel the same about metroidvania, it s kind of a one and done style genre for me other than super metroid. Even stuff that s solid like axiam verge doesn't feel all the repeatable to me since the core mechamics and level design are pretty low key and easy to master
@warrklownn1
3 жыл бұрын
Jesus...you were right about this blue revolver!!! That game makes a novice like myself feel powerful son. I like it a bit better than Zero ranger. Thanks man for the suggestion.
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
Glad you like it!
@70094kid
2 жыл бұрын
Cybershadow 2 let's go
@TheElectricUnderground
2 жыл бұрын
I d love to see it
@AdamCHowell
3 жыл бұрын
I played the NES Ninja Gaiden games a few of years ago on a handheld emulator console, shadow of the ninja as well. This lead me to buy the Massager shortly after. Like you say the messenger did seem more like a contemporary indie platformer than ninja gaiden but I did appreciate it wasn't a metroidvania. Though I do like metroidvanias almost every indie platformer is a metroidvania or superficially pretends to be one like Guacamelee. Didn't know this game turn into one until I saw this video. I played it for a just under 2 hours straight, according to steam, when I first got it. I did like what I played. Then it just disappeared into the depths of my steam library like many other good games after my first play. The other game here looks really good. But I'm getting a little fanatical about shmups recently and any aberration from the one true genre doesn't cut it for me right now.
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
That s awesome! Lots of great shmups to choose from too!
@BeadsArtBrasil
Жыл бұрын
Eu acho que está surgindo um novo gênero. Gaidenvania.
@nspades
3 жыл бұрын
Anyone have a list of games similar to this on ps4/ps5 that you would recommend
@ashsherman
3 жыл бұрын
I'd like to know too. Honestly,switch has all and more
@jakedaccord9571
3 жыл бұрын
I think cyber shadow was definitely more in line with ninja gaiden but I don’t think the messenger was really trying to be ninja gaiden
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
that's probably true about the messenger, but it was marketed as ninja gaiden style, with the og ng devs even doing a video where they play the game and stuff
@michielkroder4031
3 жыл бұрын
Great comparison video! I think in the end neither of the 2 are true Ninja Gaiden successors. You've already stated why The Messenger isn't it, but I get way heavier NES Natsume vibes from Cyber Shadow and its level designs and particular challenges are closer to those seen in Shadow of the Ninja or Shatterhand. Or maybe even Sunsoft's Batman. EDIT: oh you did mention Shadow of the Ninja. :D
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
:-D
@arcimagogix9034
3 жыл бұрын
Currently, the first Ninja Gaiden on Nes is among the few games of which I preferred the home console version over the arcade
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
Agreed!
@hardy3089
2 жыл бұрын
The messenger is the better game in my opinion
@andrews4731
3 жыл бұрын
I think with your interest in game design, it would be cool if you did in-depth analysis of game design decisions in the games you like. You do that anyway, but doing some episodes more focused on game mechanics and comparing them across games could be interesting. Oh yeah...and Monster Hunter Rise....what a game...
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
Yes I think I will do this in the future :-)
@vision697
2 жыл бұрын
Kage the shadow of ninja was a cult classic that never got much recogonition but it was a gem
@TheElectricUnderground
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah seems really cool!
@MetalFred1390
Жыл бұрын
Beat both of them fantastic games
@MegaDeth859
3 жыл бұрын
I love your videos. I like to play video games while listening to your vids. Great job!
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you!! ❤
@schlarptarf3675
3 жыл бұрын
Have you played The Messenger with auto fire, Mark?
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
Yep!
@elamriti
3 жыл бұрын
the messenger is the better game
@fuzzbear677
2 жыл бұрын
Cyber shadow looks really good what system is it on 🕹🎮😀👍🏾
@TheElectricUnderground
2 жыл бұрын
I like steam but I think it s on all the consoles as well :-)
@fuzzbear677
2 жыл бұрын
@@TheElectricUnderground it should have a CD physical release sooner or later🕹🎮😀👍🏾
@UnknownArtist1984
3 жыл бұрын
Skin redness is crazyyyyyy lol
@galaxyguy4522
10 ай бұрын
Thanks for the video 😯 I just got the messenger and was curious about Cyber Shadow 😄
@kairi85
3 жыл бұрын
great video
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks!!
@matthewfishgold4541
2 жыл бұрын
Wow, Cyber Shadow looks incredible. Buying.
@TheElectricUnderground
2 жыл бұрын
Cyber shadow is awesome! I still play it
@FarnhamTheDrunk1
3 жыл бұрын
Imo Cyber Shadow is too much of a flawed game to be even be considered a "great" game... I could not bring myself to finish it... The Messenger on the other hand is a masterpiece if u ask me... perfect in every way... Now if u want to ask the question what is the true NG successor? none of those 2... they are too different in gameplay philosophy... Cyber Shadow is not even close to having ANYTHING to do with NG, i do not know where that weird comparison comes from lol just because u play as a ninja? (btw, i get really triggered by you swinging the sword the WHOLE TIME hahaha...) Great video tho, as always ;-)
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
I agree cyber shadow isn't 1:1 with Ninja Gaiden, but the purpose of the video was to analyze which of the two games are closer to NG because both games have evoked NG in their marketing, and of the two I think Cyber Shadow is much closer. It was fun to compare and contrast the games and talk about the NG level design.
@FarnhamTheDrunk1
3 жыл бұрын
@@TheElectricUnderground yeah i totally understand... I just wanted to put in my own two cents, nothing else haha... i would like to see more videos like this actually, very entertaining ;-)
@H-TownGamer
8 ай бұрын
IMO it’s extremely similar to NG on the NES. It’s ninja gaiden nes with a futuristic look
@FarnhamTheDrunk1
8 ай бұрын
i honestly cannot possibly imagine why anyone would say that... thats like saying DMC is exactly like 3D ninja gaiden... the 2 games have absolutely nothing at all to do with each other gameplay wise the only common thing is that ur a ninja @@H-TownGamer
@H-TownGamer
8 ай бұрын
@@FarnhamTheDrunk1 no it’s not just that he’s a ninja. The platforming style and enemy patterns are almost exactly the same. That combined with its brutal difficulty like the original ninja Gaiden it’s a very similar game at its core.
@censoredterminalautism4073
3 жыл бұрын
I really like Metroidvanias, but only actual Metroid and the Castlevania games. Barely played the genre that formed around that beyond the originals, but with the open world statement, it seems like people aren't doing it right because games in that genre should have a very different appeal from that. I don't see a reason to not make games like that more challenging. Maybe it's a generic thing to say, but I see a game like Dark Souls as the 3D equivalent of that, and that's a decently challenging game (though it being super hard is a total meme) that is very satisfying to play and still has the item collection elements and multiple difficulties. Maybe the game systems could be better as well. The Castlevania games in that category have a bunch of abilities and different weapons to collect (and Alucard's spells in SotN, that I really enjoyed using) and that's what makes them so fun, including those abilities that give you insane mobility, that are always satisfying to use (like Alucard's ↓↑ jump that other characters get as well, and the one that makes you run super fast that Soma gets in Aria of Sorrow, that keeps returning after that). And they have higher difficulties as well. I don't know, if people think that this is kind of a bland genre now it's probably not being done right considering how much I enjoyed those old games (and I played literally all of them to 100% completion, in every difficulty, and with the extra characters as well). To me, exploration is fun and all, but the gameplay is the main appeal, and that's why those games have so much replay value. Once I know the map, I know the map and exploration isn't much of a factor anymore, but they are still fun and I played all of them way too many times.
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
So I have played a bunch of vanias and I don t dislike the genre or anything. The issue that I have with them is that they are generally designed to emphasize traversal and if the game doesn t have really really good movement options (like super metroid speed booster and wall jumps) the game gets really stale very quickly because they typically don't emphasize enemy layouts and things like that since they need to be more open.
@censoredterminalautism4073
3 жыл бұрын
@@TheElectricUnderground If you think that the mobility is too limited (which kinda stops being the case once you get the crazy skills that I mentioned, but admittedly that comes later in the games), I assume that you like (or would like) the mobility that the extra characters have more, like Richter in SotN (Maria in the Saturn version has the super jump and cool spells, but not so much horizontal mobility). Julius in Aria of Sorrow is also great, and the others are good too, but Richter is the most extreme. If you're not familiar with that, look for speedruns of the games with those characters (the Richter run takes like, five minutes). They are absolutely insane and maybe devs should take elements from that. Maybe people should make Metroidvanias based on that absurd level of mobility and not on the slower-paced regular gameplay, with open maps, but with insane level design that makes them not overpowered. It would be like digital caffeine. Maybe with motions kinda like fighting game moves, just like Richter had. Funnily enough, SotN having moves like that makes it WAY better to play on stick even though not many people do it. Once I played that on stick I could never go back to pad. Same thing for the Mega Man games with the dash as well, because dashing, jumping and attacking (or charging a shot) on pad, only with your thumb, is torture when you're used to sticks. Especially in the PS1 games, that let you hold the dash button and jump around really fast.
@Sasha-ux6xe
3 жыл бұрын
I also quit the messenger when it became metroidvania that was a huge disappointment for me. up until that point it was a fun linear action platformer with great pixel art. They should have ended the game where it went open world. I think they wanted players to be like "wow its metroidvania now and the game just begun!" but for me it did the opposite :/ it ended at that point
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah I really wish they kept it the same style throughout
@marufranco5281
3 жыл бұрын
I second the comment about playing Rabi-Ribi, that game is made for people who like a really hard challenge without being cheap, rewarding actual skills instead of pure memorization, it does offer optional accessibility options aswell. Seriously, that game makes Bloodstained (The 3D one) look like a school project in terms of game design. The developer of rabi-ribi (GemaYue) is a pretty hardcore videogame player and really knows what he is doing when designing difficult bosses. The level design might be a little bit lacking at first, then when you increase the difficulty it all comes together. The DLC fixed the few issues the game has so it's recommended to play the DLC aswell, the DLC has so much content you could consider it as an expansion, worth playing every minute of it, if you sort platformers and metroidvania games by steam score, RabiRibi will be upthere with Hollow Knight
@TheElectricUnderground
3 жыл бұрын
Yes I am going to check it out!
@RetasAF
3 жыл бұрын
@@TheElectricUnderground when you do make sure to be patient with it, metroidvanias might turn you off but the appeal of rabiribi is on the bosses, there are many of them, try finishing the game before criticizing it, i mean it,you will do yourself a favor, its a trip and has shmup sections, looks like waifu bait but if you look past that you have a great game that is criminally underrated
@Largentina.
2 жыл бұрын
Great video. In my opinion, Katana Zero is better than both these games.
@TheElectricUnderground
2 жыл бұрын
I need to try it!!
@RayTheProducer
7 ай бұрын
Both are masterpieces. Had these come out back in the 16 bit days, they’d be considering GOATS. Great video.
@scienceandmatter8739
3 жыл бұрын
I really must say Messenger got me more coming BACK completin it ...TRIBVTES from GERMANY
@scienceandmatter8739
3 жыл бұрын
PLUS THE LOVE going in TO THE DLC pink picnic somerhing...dont THINK cyber shadow WILL get a DLC.....just LIKE cuphead never WILL haha
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