Absolutely honored to help with this monumental project by having my Eberron copy appear for 46 frames, incredible video and honestly hope there's more to come!
@dragonflight2468
4 күн бұрын
> Tried to make their own VTT > Tried to revoke ogl Man, the more things change the more they stay the same.
@StanNotSoSaint
2 күн бұрын
Expect now everybody are actually playing in VTTs, so they have great chance of success
@InsightCheck
4 күн бұрын
A 5 hour video about my favourite game? Sign me up. The longest video I’ve ever made is barely over 30 minutes and that took forever. Honestly dude, just the length of this alone is worth congratulating you on before I’ve even seen it! Sub number 92! Let’s go :)
@starpencil
4 күн бұрын
The script was created May 23rd of 2023 so over a year to create this absolute beast. Hope you enjoy was was an absolute labor of love
@InsightCheck
4 күн бұрын
@@starpencil absolutely incredible. Well done!
@CopiHuman
4 күн бұрын
I had to do a double take when I read that comment, and again when I saw how many subscribers they have. Just over 100, with this quality of a video? I'm damn glad the algorithm served me this, criminally underrated.
@appleseed8282
4 күн бұрын
10:30 Quick correction: the common wisdom that Pathfinder outsold 4e is actually a (fairly recently debunked) myth. Theres an article going over it on Alphastream, but essentially: the metric was based off a survey that didn't really cover all the places RPGs get bought, focusing more on brick and morter Hobby shops. But former employees from WotC and Paizo have come out in recent years expressing that 4e had _always_ sold better, Pathfinder just kept a better reputation among the TTRPG Hardcore and gathered more third party support (primarily due to the GSL just not being good to Third Party for).
@appleseed8282
4 күн бұрын
26:30 Also... the shear irony of placing these statements next to each other (powers were _never_ as bad when it came to overcomplexity as it was with Vancian spells. Like the worst I can think of is Flurry of Blows, but thats just to do with term confusion)
@andya5456
Күн бұрын
D&D fell the the #2 spot in two years: 1995, when TSR was going bankrupt and was unable to produce books to sell, and 2011, when they put a dead stop to 4th edition and made no new products. Both times, it did not fall in popularity, but in sales because there was nothing to sell.
@matel4692
5 күн бұрын
Dang, talk about a high-effort video. This deserves way more views! Great stuff man
@starpencil
5 күн бұрын
Thanks a ton! This was an absolute labor of love that took so much time. Happy you enjoyed!
@Pobafett
Күн бұрын
“5th edition failed the DM”. 100% agree. I found the materials at hand in 4th edition much more comprehensive to build and run encounters and adventures. 5th edition focuses on making the characters super heroes and gives DMs little in the way to build encounters and adventures that keep players interested. There’s so many KZitem videos for DMs that help them run games, despite the lack of detailed rules in the DMG. And there’s an equal amount of videos showing players how to exploit the rules and deliver knock out attacks. But then I am an exasperated DM, so take what I say with a pinch of salt. 3:48:30
@HI-kb2cg
Күн бұрын
5e tools and there are auto combat arenas that ai battle w.e u setup in the fight.
@CatkinsonGD
4 күн бұрын
what the fuck good long-form content on my home page by someone with 106 subs we eatin good tonight
@jimb3566
2 күн бұрын
i know 😭 bro put more work into this video than most 100k+ DnD KZitemrs
@LikeTheBirb
Күн бұрын
Up to nearly 300 now Mans earned it
@Golbleen
4 күн бұрын
One thing I'll point out is that in oldschool style games, combat goes even faster than in 5e. Low health pools and group initiative make it a snappy punctuation to exploration, which has many more rules
@starpencil
4 күн бұрын
I've recently been getting into more OSR games (as you might be able to tell in the conclusion) and I've absolutely loved how fast and often more cinematic combat can be when health pools are only 1 or 3 hits big. Does it scratch that tactical game itch I'll often get? No but if I know that going In it's a nonissue.
@elementzero3379
4 күн бұрын
Epic undertaking! Well done, sir! I don't agree with every single take across 5 hours, and it would be weird if I did. However, your reasoning and balanced presentation are unimpeachable. I have a feeling people will be sharing this video far into the future, years from now when we're looking back on 5e.
@starpencil
4 күн бұрын
Thank you, and that's absolutely what I was hoping for. Everyone is gonna have a different take and opinion on this game. Just to open the discussion and actually get people talking about 5e as a system instead of builds or stories was my ultimate goal. Thanks for watching!
@alvynlifts
3 күн бұрын
Such a good video, and now that I think about it it’s shocking that for as much D&D content is out there there isn’t really a “retrospective” style video like you see with so many video game series. Plenty of vids that take a more historical approach for older editions, but what about the version that’s been out for a decade and we’re still playing? Thanks for putting in the effort!
@starpencil
3 күн бұрын
Exactly why I wanted to make this! After getting into long form videos and listening to so many about games I wanted to do one for D&D, something I've never seen anyone do or attempt. I'd like to say I pulled it off
@09philj
4 күн бұрын
The word I'd go to for describing how 5E combat can often end up is "Slapfight". Very few things have as much value as dealing direct damage and there's usually one or two best ways to deal direct damage so you have to do them a lot but in a genuinely balanced fight you may still have to do them a lot to kill the enemies. It feels very weird that it's the most developed system yet still feels so off. I've played games with far more emphasis on their combat system that feel better because combat and character building for combat is deeper and better designed (Lancer), and I've played games with simpler combat that feels better because it goes more quickly (Troika), or allow for more freeform approaches to dealing with enemies based on imaginative use of abilities (Vampire: The Masquerade), with 5E stuck sort of awkwardly in the middle.
@rubyriches
3 күн бұрын
5E streamlined D&D by the maxim of "Just do it" . Swap your one handed weapon from your left hand to right without an action, etc?. Just do it. Friendly for new payers by basic mechanics the DM will add to if needed?(I'm looking at you 1st iteration of 5E Ranger) Just do it. Want a quick reference for X monster easily translated back into other editions? 5E can do it. The success of this maxim another conversation entirely.
@guydunn8259
3 күн бұрын
Rocket tag starts at level 11
@PuritanProdcutions
7 күн бұрын
This is so surreal to listen to a video essay like this by someone I know in real life and am close friends with, because it’s the same quality as all those other ones. Boy did a damn good job
@coltsfan354
4 күн бұрын
It's hard to get this across, but for an almost 5 hour video, it was incredibly concise. No waffling or reiterating, just kept the train moving. This video was fantastic. 5e to me was a great starting point, but my group has almost exclusively moved on to Starfinder. It still has its issues, but it just feels a lot better.
@starpencil
4 күн бұрын
Let's GOOOO starfinder rocks
@xolotltolox7626
3 күн бұрын
I kinda disagree. the preamble could have been cut entirely, this is a critique not a history. But then again, video essay preambles are my arch nemesis, and this isn't even as close to as bad as they come
@coltsfan354
3 күн бұрын
@@xolotltolox7626 nah, context is necessary.
@xolotltolox7626
3 күн бұрын
@@coltsfan354 It really is not, you can just skip that part and the video is perfectly understandable You don't need to summarize the development history of a game in order to Review it
@Stopdressur
4 күн бұрын
Came here from Insight Checks post and wow this is amazing!!!!!!
@InsightCheck
4 күн бұрын
Hype! So glad people are finding this gem
@Stopdressur
4 күн бұрын
@@InsightCheck so glad you have led me to it :)
@jimb3566
3 күн бұрын
ah yes, it’s about time my KZitem recommendations got their shit together
@brycejordan8987
4 күн бұрын
This is a minor quibble as the broader picture is fair but races are a bit messier than even that. V. Human is still considered one of the best races in the game even after all the other races came out (most of the races that surpass it are races that gain access to flight) and while subsequent races are as a rule of thumb power creep over the base PHB races on average, you certainly still get some weak options such as kenku. Edit: You are right that in many ways custom lineage muddies things. It's mostly a better version of V. Human with the only times you might opt for V. Human being because the +1/+1 at times can be better than the +2/+0. I do think there is something to be said about the popularity of V. Humans. You do touch on the flaw of relying on the gms or players not to pick things but while V. Human does feel characterful all said and done, C. Lineage is a strangely cryptic race that never feels like it has particularly strong flavor. All tables will vary but at my table V. Humans pop up a lot, C. Lineage doesn't likely for that reason but I'm aware at optimizer tables that might not be the case.
@JaxiPaxified
2 күн бұрын
I think I agree with Brennan Lee Mulligan a lot on the missing rules on roleplay. You want to have complete freedom with it, the rules are there to support you on the things you need help with. Like combat.
@JaxiPaxified
Күн бұрын
I made this comment before you got around to the same conclusion
@Linpuff
Күн бұрын
I'm happy the algorithm brought me this. I'm absolutely a listener of long multi-hour documentary style videos. They get me through the workday. I've subscribed and you deserve way more subs!
@agilemonk6305
3 күн бұрын
I’ve been in the hobby for 50 years and I very much enjoyed this video. Excellent quality, solid data analysis, and reasonable objective information and assessment. A very thorough and professional and mature discussion on what can be such a crazy and convoluted topic of epic proportions. ❤😊👍
@ragsthedoll378
4 күн бұрын
This is good stuff! I hope you keep the traction, I appreiciate how you've laid out your arguments without droning, but where still through and well explained. Sub 120
@cavalcojj
Күн бұрын
So I've been playing a version of D&D for 28 years, I really appreciate your deep dive into 5e. In truth I haven't really played much of it. When 4e dropped my group jumped to Pathfinder 1e. That is a very flawed game. I know cause I've played it for 15 years. So I've been looking for something else and I found that in Shadowdark. My wife and I love the D&D board games, which funnily enough are based on 4e, for the dungeon crawler that it is. Shadowdark really brings that back in my opinion. I have of course changed things. I added in many BECMI rules that work really well with Shadowdark's core philosophy. But none of that would be possible with 5e. So if nothing else 5th edition is the reason why I have scaffold my favorite D&D ruleset together. My friends are having a blast. So much so that my one friend seems content putting his Pathfinder game that he runs on opposite weeks on hold to play more Shadowdark. I as the DM am have a blast as well, and I look forward to every session. Something that I found myself floundering with when it comes to Pathfinder, 5th, and 3rd editions. So I'm really glad that you made this video. It has helped me put into words the bloat that many editions contain as they get long in the tooth. I truly hope that those that read this find a system that they can love, that fits their group. Because at the end of the day D&D is a great way to get friends together play some games and enjoy each others company in a hobby we all enjoy. :)
@starpencil
Күн бұрын
I'm super excited to try out Shadowdark finally. I recently had the chance to try out White Box by Charlie Mason and wasn't massively impressed (I enjoyed Forbidden Lands' more fleshed-out mechanics) and from what I was reading SD seemed to be a middle ground of OSR with enough modern design choices to fit what 've been looking for. I'm happy to hear you enjoyed this massive video. P.S. I've heard a lot of those D&D board games are actually really good and where the 4e system shines.
@thecarpenter6420
4 күн бұрын
I'm so confused by the metrics of this video and channel compared to the quality, wtf. It'' an amazing video! Hope this'll pop-off. I'm actually recently introduced to D&D and TTRPG, like, not even 3 months ago, and am already working on some programs and such to help myself with DM'ing and the rules, as well as homebrew stuff. But even as a beginner, I started to quickly notice how disappointing some of the systems were. I want to challenge the players with survival, keeping score of food and water? though luck, the system doesn't support it with such surface level rules, and I had to make a ruleset from scratch and hope to god it's balanced for my players. Want to use any setting that doesn't use magic?; absolutely not, that's a no go, as the few interesting mechanics are lost if we take away the spells and magic items. I've started to realize very early that I'll need to get my head into other TTRPG's in order to get the systems and rulesets needed to create the game that I want my players to experience. The problem with that is of course, I have to buy multiple books, I have to learn completely new rules as a novice, I have to take the time to build my campaign around these rules, and I have to teach my players how these other rules work. I'm already starting to make steps away from WOTC and DND, learning of the pitfalls the system and especially its publisher are making.
@easiestcc6451
4 күн бұрын
Bro you deserve more subs man! I hope your channel takes off! Also, I kinda agree with your take on Eldritch Blast being OP. If you wanna prevent that kind of playstyle, you could change all ranged spell attacks to where the character takes psychic damage equal to the spell's level (minimum of 2) times character level plus proficiency bonus and have the character not be able to cast spells until the end of their next turn if they use the same spell twice within the span of 4 rounds.
@StarWarsBuddy
2 күн бұрын
Holy moly. That's a KZitem masterpiece right there. I am around 30 minutes and totally soaked in. Thx!
@rowanshield5813
5 күн бұрын
here before this inevitably blows up and gets a million views. Great stuff, my guy
@ScorpionID7
4 күн бұрын
YOU DESERVE MORE VIEWS, MY FRIEND 😭 ❤️
@hendriklobe577
3 күн бұрын
Dude! I'm blown away. My respect fpr creating this video. I'm ill atm and took today to watch all your 5h. And I don't know where to start since I got so much input from your vid that I may just start rambling it all out. (Disclamer: A few years ago and as a non-noob jet still on low experience in the hobby I played one shorter DnD campaign and 3 or so oneshots. They where fun and all, and I played BG3 quite an amount too but DnD5e never really clicked with me. Most of the time I felt limited by the game system to be good in anything other than combat while combat was boring yet the most important aspect of the game. And I felt limited by the class-fantasies and meta-gaming tips on "the best build" or "the best use of my character" by players on table and content creators. So the claim, that i can play whatever I want to in 5E always appeared to me as a lie.) 1. Thx for the introduction on where 5E came from and what the circumstances and design philosophy of 5E where. It realy put a new perspective on the game for me. I now understand where the claim comes from to be easy and accessable as well as suitet for deep character play. 2. I now fully understand why the lack of DMs is so severe and a real issue. And i see now why so much content on YT is centered around running the game and providing user-paches for the system. 3. I guess I now can appreciate the strengths of 5E a litttle bit more but they are still surrounded by things I do not look for. 4. You concluding an identity crisis and calling out 5E as a flawed system that's not up to date anymore. You give me words for what I could only speak vaguely about, and I feel confirmed that 5E (and maybe the 2024 update as well) is overhyped. Big thanks for your well based and indepth analysis of the game. I'll share your vid with some other folks I know. Have a great day!
@starpencil
3 күн бұрын
Thanks so much for spending the time to watch through the whole thing (hopefully you'll start to feel better). I'm super happy I could provide some insight into how crazy this system is in a world where most of the content on this game is dominated but exactly what you said, guides or running the game videos. Hearing experiences like yours is exactly why I wanted to make this video.
@matthew_setzer4136
4 күн бұрын
To be honest, the one time I played an Artificer was my favorite character (of course you know that Art), and yes, there is so much to do with it that it's hard to remember everything constantly. (and guns with the infusion, never having to reload it, ever)
@Pomlithe
4 күн бұрын
Me out here at Level 17 consistently forgetting about my Spell-Storing Item.
@SeldonnHari
3 күн бұрын
3:22:37 Roll under systems like Dragon Bane or Black Hack provide an interesting reframing for thinking about difficulty, rolling the dice, and bounded accuracy. Rather than looking at modifiers, you are always just sliding the dial on a d20 you need to roll to succeed. This is true regardless the system, you can always calculate before the roll what number you need to surpass on a d20. I would be curious not to see the math but to see the d20 number characters need to roll at different levels of play.
@raylyeh6083
3 күн бұрын
On the Paladin: My various groups started playing late 2e and 3.5 we, and the vast majority of people we’ve talked to refuse to play them because of their previous hardlined codes. They not only limited the player’s role playing options but did so for the entire party as they then usually babysat the party. And it’s not like we play murder hobo games. The looser oaths in 5e were very welcome imo. I applaud you in finding stricter oaths appealing for role playing though even if I disagree. I’m only 1/3 the way through the video and so far I’m enjoying it. I’ll update this post if necessary when I finish.
@raylyeh6083
3 күн бұрын
Okay, finished the video, very solid. I appreciate your conclusion. I look back and feel very lucky that my introduction to TTRPGs was with Shadowrun and the Old World of Darkness games with DnD being the 3rd system I learned. I feel pretty bad for people that started with and often only know DnD. Whenever we find a new player, my group tries to make sure that their first game they play with us isn’t DnD.
@nkozi
4 күн бұрын
Only an hour in so far; Some (very) minor gripes as a 4e-Head, but so far so good. One thing I will mention: Adv/DisAdv was ripped wholecloth from the Avenger, a 4e class that got reflavored into a Paladin subclass. It wasn't even a Mearls original 🤫
@norandomnumbers
3 күн бұрын
5e has more like semi-Vancian casting. You don't need to prepare a spell for each slot like in earlier editions or pathfinder, which is the proper Vancian method. If you want to cast three fireballs a day, you don't need to prepare three fireballs, preparing it once is enough. Couple of other observations. If you think playing a warlock is boring, I'm surprised you didn't repeat the same sentiment with any ranged martials. An EBing Warlock is basically a fighter with a crossbow, but instead of getting second wind and action surge per short rest, they get two spell slots. You also got surprise rounds wrong. Initiative is always rolled at the start of combat. Always. Surprise "round" or no. Initiative order matters a whole lot for a whole bunch of stuff, like the assassin rogue's entire kit, or for characters who might have reactions like the shield spell, or an NPC with parry. Even if a character misses their turn, they might still be able to use their reaction if they roll high enough in initiative.
@09philj
2 күн бұрын
Fighter I think still has better options than Warlock. As a Battlemaster, which realistically you are because it's the most interesting of the options, most of your Manoeuvrers can be applied to ranged attacks in the same way as they can to melee attacks, and they generally function like normal attacks with an additional effect. This means Fighter can both deal damage and do something else interesting on their turn, and of course as a Fighter can also switch to fighting in melee if it seems appropriate. Eldritch Knight kind of doesn't work mechanically but you do get a few spell slots to play with, more than Warlock does. The problem with Warlock is that Eldritch Blast is *too* good so you will almost never have a better choice than just casting Eldritch Blast, and because combats go on for a long time you have to do it a lot.
@sjwarhammer4039
4 күн бұрын
For me, 4e is the best version of D&D. I really disliked 3e, Pathfinder, and 5e. It wasn't until Pathfinder 2nd Edition that brought me back into the genre especially as a GM. For years I was certain that the only fantasy I'd be running would be like Warhammer and outside of that it'd be games in other genres like Call of Cthulhu. It saddens me that 4e is considered a failure, but with how much people loved the versions of D&D that I don't enjoy, I've made peace that what I enjoy in a heroic fantasy game isn't what the majority enjoys and that my issues with these games aren't being ignored by a lot of players, they are considered a feature.
@Lexi-lf2si
5 күн бұрын
Yo this is like really well made & SO FUCKING LONG really really really hope this kicks off mate
@starpencil
5 күн бұрын
Thank you so much! you really don't wanna know how long this took to make...
@harrysarso
4 күн бұрын
Lack roleplay features feels even more applicable to the fighter if you ask me
@Zythryl
2 күн бұрын
Idk. In my experience, my best characters were Fighters, *because* the class is so “blank-slate” that I didn’t need to worry about logical limitations for what a character could end up being.
@GaaMacgfx
5 күн бұрын
Saying the Monster Manual was good really took me by surprise, even when you compare to something like the MM from 4e. Having only 2 goblins to fight instead of 7 types present in 4e was 100% a downgrade and made combat really boring not only on the player side like you said but also for the DM. Add that the broken CR system and you basically have a broken pillar of play which only got better in later books but was really fixed by 3rd party publishers like MCDM and Sly Flourish revised monster encounter rules.
@starpencil
5 күн бұрын
I really wish I spent more time digging into the monster design. At one point I had planned on diving deeper into how 5e's monsters lead to some of the issues I have with combat feeling so bland and samey (at one point I had a segment planned on how monsters encourage you to just hit things till they die and offer little to change up strategy).
@Unormalism
4 күн бұрын
I'd say one big issue with the original monster manual is how uninspired some of the most iconic monsters are, leading to Driders who merely attack and a Tarrasque that isn't nearly as impressive as it's supposed to be.
@GaaMacgfx
4 күн бұрын
@@Unormalism 100%
@WalkOnNick
3 күн бұрын
I think the issue with proficiency dice is that it's just very cumbersome in play. Players need to look if they are proficient than grab the relevant die and then roll, add the D20 to the Proficiency die and then add the ability score compared to simply rolling the D20 and adding a bonus. I don't think the added randomnes would stop optimization either. Look at poker. It's just about doing the statistically optimal decision at any time. It's not about wether or not the randomness actually works out at any given time. Human Variant is actually the best race in the game if you are optimizing. The extra feat is just that strong. Standard Human is however very underpowered.
@brycejordan8987
3 күн бұрын
Yeah, the added randomness chiefly would lead to a distribution curve and much like any other dice rolls would be factored in as it's presumed average roll. I do think it should be noted that V. Human isn't the best race. It is the best race for optimization in the PHB esp before Tasha's let all races swap their asi improvements. Now, Custom Lineage probably beats V. Human on average for general optimization (V. Human still remains an excellent option) and flying races are a great pick for any PC that is a ranged caster or ranged weapon martial.
@questocd174
4 күн бұрын
Quite the undertaking. Very impressive.
@ISpyDeli
4 күн бұрын
Around @1:00:50 or so there's a comment about how people playing Dnd5e might not prefer a "rules heavy system like Pathfinder" that irks me *so* much. Dnd5e *IS* a rules heavy system. It boggles my mind that people claim it isn't, though I suppose that idea is largely because of the "rulings not rules" bullshit the devs pushed to shove the responsibility of making their game work onto the GMs. People choosing to ignore half of the rulebook does not make it a rules lite game. Dnd5e is *easily* just as complex a game as Pathfinder 2e, if not *more so* because of how their "natural language" approach to writing them makes for an inconsistently worded mess that leads to all sorts of confusion over RAW vs. RUI, the necessity of (often contradictory) "Crawford Tweets", etc. Plus there's the fact that 5e effectively tells its players "don't worry about knowing the rules, that's the GM's job! :)", just making it all worse. I hate that that narrative is always getting pushed, because it's just so dishonest. If you prefer 5e over PF2e because you can ignore the rules, that's all well and fine, but don't sell that as 5e being a less complex game with easy rules, because it isn't. (As an aside, it also kind of annoys me that you seem to use 1e constantly as the comparison point, despite 2e having been out for 5 years now and being a completely different game from 1e. 2e's math is also far from difficult or requiring a calculator; if you can do basic addition and subtraction you can do the game's math.)
@starpencil
4 күн бұрын
This was definitely a realization I had far later into the videos production and one I couldn't really go back and change. D&D is most definitely not rules lite. However for the players I'd argue it is. Most rules and expectations just like OSR's fall on the GM to use, even if the system itself is not rules lite it's definitely lighter then it's contemporaries, especially for time of release. A note on why I use PFe1 over 2? It's simply the edition I actually have playtime with. I do give a shout-out to 2 far later on and personally what I've read of it believe it's probably the single most impressive jump in d20 roleplaying in awhile.
@ewabrzakaa6395
3 күн бұрын
@@starpencil well, players don't need to know the rules when entire burden of rules is left on DM to make them... so for your average player Pathfinder (and 2e) are much more rule heavy than 5e DnD [I ended up running 5e game with Pathfinder rulebook open to just patch in everything that system lacks rules for. and it's not hard, eg: 1e Pathfinder has pricing of magic items fitting in with DnD monetary system. Crafting rules! (especially since artificer became a class, there were so many players who wanted to make real magic items) It's not even hard to borrow monsters on the fly, just few simple adjustments and you finally have something with interesting abilities.]
@Grogeous_Maximus
3 күн бұрын
Will check this out after work. But uh. The people sitting down for a 5 hour long video, aren't the people who need explained that you use dice in D&D lol
@zachdesota363
Күн бұрын
Yo Dustin from stranger things be looking real goofy
@3libras903
Күн бұрын
Variant human is very popular in optimized builds. Polearm master, crossbow expert, warcaster, lots of strong options level 1.
@OtterPirate
5 күн бұрын
Insane video, great piece of work! W me cameo (kinda)
@SomeRandomOldFatGuy
Күн бұрын
D&d has always been (and will always be) broken. But 5e had the most perfect balance of brokenness. Im an ad&d1e guy at heart, but 5e managed to steal away a large portion of my heart.
@em_ily
7 күн бұрын
Thank you, I can finally quit playing DND.
@joeyjohns9517
5 күн бұрын
5 hours??? holy shit
@starpencil
5 күн бұрын
Yeah sorry it's so short ...
@StanNotSoSaint
2 күн бұрын
Great video, and great summary of your experience! There is a boom going on right now of various authors making new systems both similar to dnd and different from it. Such as 2nd edition of 13th Age - system made by both lead designers of 3rd and 4th editions of dnd. It actually has quite a few narrative mechanics to intertwine each PC with the world. If you or any viewers are interested in dnd history and/or various other system I'd recommend to watch streams on Roll For Combat channel and Knights Of The Last Call channel. They both are created by veterans who were there when all the drama happened and are treasure troves of information related to TTRPGs.
@LucasDeziderio
2 күн бұрын
I think I disagree on the narrative that 5e is only as successful as it is due to Critical Role, Stranger Things and marketing. Mainly because WotC already had the same marketing machine before, on the 3e and 4e eras. And D&D has always been referenced in media, being an influence to various videogames and even showing up on TV shows such as Community. And even though CR is an undeniable success, there were already live-play podcasts before it, such as Acquisitions Inc. The crux of the issue is that marketing can only take you so far. In the past, such ads would bring potential new players to games that were not beginner friendly. 3e had so much complexity that new players couldn't figure it out themselves without the helping hand of more experienced gamers. And 4e was... 4e. Treating 5e's success as if it was some kind of lucky alignment of planets is somewhat disrespectful to the design and work that went into making sure it was as beginner friendly as possible while maintaining the key elements of past editions.
@SerifSansSerif
2 күн бұрын
And at 42 min. I agree that proficiency is... Interesting. Since the pb goes up, it is supposed to represent progression, but the bonuses are quick and head on, so with a 16 in a stat you already have about 2/3 chance of getting a dirty 20. If you remove the PB itself (which replaces the level bonus, so really they're much the same even if the progeession is not), and have "proficiency" letting you add your stat bonus, and you get points at each level more like 2/3e, and no asi, then it gives more customization and more impact. Since, say, you only get 2 points to assign to skills per level, you could also put a hard cap on the number of points you can add to a skill, you can still keep it all within a bounded accuracy.
@GoblinMinmaxer
3 күн бұрын
Absolutely incredible video, wow.
@richardrdotson
3 күн бұрын
Holy goodness. Damn well done.
@MasterKneeCap
6 күн бұрын
Haven’t watch it yet but I know this is going to be GAS
@ChandlerMakesVidya
4 күн бұрын
12 second tik tok: i sleep 5 hour long rambling about dice game: REAL
@CoffeeSipper555
4 күн бұрын
It does do something better, it's known and has a famous lore. That's it.
@archersfriend5900
Күн бұрын
Nah, 5e wrecked the lore.
@RoxiieReadsLore
4 күн бұрын
....was that...was that a Cosmonaut Variety Hour reference at 1:55:50? Honestly I'm getting huge Marcus vibes from this whole video (and I am here for it a+)
@starpencil
4 күн бұрын
Ha! definitely not intentionally but as a fan of Cosmonaut Variety Hour I will absolutely take it
@Killallmangahaters
3 күн бұрын
Wow this video is so well made, I didn't realise you only had 171 subscribers. You deserve way more to match your level of quality. Glad to be here, love it and your delivery
@lergof0202
3 күн бұрын
Iniative is rolled before the surprise round. Surprise is a condition that prevents the creature from acting. There is no “surprise round” in 5e.
@happy-kh4uk
Күн бұрын
I used to publish 5E third-party material. I know this game inside and out. So I speak from experience when I say that 5E, in spite of being “made easy for beginners” is one of the most complicated systems on the entire market, behind maybe Pathfinder. I think, and you seem to agree based on the title (I’m only 10 minutes in) the main issue is that 5E doesn’t know what it wants to be. It’s trying to be rules light and a tactical wargame. It wants to fit every genre of fantasy. And it’s a master at absolutely nothing because of that.
@austinhearn6111
3 күн бұрын
Awesome video
@dragonflight2468
2 күн бұрын
> Complain about how parties long rest too frequently > Literal sentence says they can only benefit from 1 every 24 hours. .... How.... How diid I not know that...
@matthewparker9276
2 күн бұрын
I disagree that the three aspects of rpgs are roleplay, combat, and exploration, and I think that this common understanding is a detriment to the hobby, misleading designers, game masters, and players alike. I think a more accurate assessment of rpgs reveals three aspects of conflict, exploration, and progression. Conflict is having player character goals in opposition with the goals of other characters (including the world itself as a character), and rules to resolve the conflict to determine whose goals get advanced. This can be combat, but it can also be social interactions, skill or ability actions, it can have coarse or fine granularity. Most things with a variable outcome fit under conflict. Exploration is learning about the world, solving mysteries, finding secrets, etc. It doesn't need to be location (e.g. wilderness) based, things like talking to npcs to gain knowledge are exploration. This is the aspect that is most in the hands of the adventure designer, you need both the information to be discovered and to invest the players into discovering it. Progression is having the players' choices impact the world and gameplay. Leveling up does count towards progression, but it tends to be quite bland compared to other forms of progression, such as aquiring equipment, allies, enemies, etc. or disrupting the balance of power in the game world. Progression is how you measure success. Note that none of these aspects require fighting monsters, talking to quest givers, or poking around in dungeons. An rpg about serving tea to diplomats still needs conflict, exploration, and progression.
@josher-ch6sf
4 күн бұрын
Dr dropping the sacred tomes on us
@SerifSansSerif
2 күн бұрын
And as a DM, the exploration and point to point crawl, there's an overabundance of lore in the modules that you CAN use and the stuff for the adventure you bought. Any more is 1. An unrealistic amount of DM mental load 2. Not in keeping with most players wants (I struggle to get my players to explore my cool stuff) 3. Improvisation anyway which is in fact, not planning or writing things down.
@LucasRibeiro-po4pb
5 күн бұрын
3:05:25 You got it, partially. It has been said by those that worked in D&DNext that the DMG and MM were rushed. They weren't given the time and money, and on top of that, they were too focused on bringing back the public they lost in 4e and never imagined the explosion of new players. As a consequence, those books were bad. Bad specially in the sense that they did not explain what 5e was and didn't provide the exploration and social systems they were meant to. The PHB is combat focused because that's the pillar of the game that is most tight; rules come before rulings usually to provide a level playing field. The social and exploration pillars are much more the purview of the DM, and they weren't given the resources to properly run them. I LOVE AD&D2e, the only reason I mainly play 5e is because pf my players and the wealth of great third party content. 5e tried to be 2e and it got quite close; with a few gritty house rules I use it has a very similar vibe. I greatly appreciate the streamlining of the "modern" style (hated 3e and 4e). However, thanks to being too easy on players and not teaching new DMs what to do with the system, it developed a commnity that pushed the game in the direction I didn't want to. I'm not playing the new "6e" edition, I think it's awful, and 5e, for me, will always be that edition that got really close to victory just to be stabbed in the back.
@starpencil
5 күн бұрын
That's crazy because the MM was actually delayed by a few months so they could add more stuff in. Hearing that the DMG was rushed makes perfect sense to me, it's a book that feels like it should've been in the PHB vs something for GMs. Thanks for the great comment and watching!
@LucasRibeiro-po4pb
5 күн бұрын
@@starpencil They basically had 3 years to make a whole edition with 3 books from scratch. The MM had months but it needed more time, specially because you can only trule playtest monsters in the context of 95% of the rules being finished. Then came the power creep to satisfy the increasingly powr hunger of a community that treated 5e as a super hero power trip (an edition where crying because your character died at level 1 became way more normalized). The DMG getting the shaft is not only public knowledge, in the most recent video about the 2024 DMG, Chris Perkins said explicitly, on camera, that last time they were short on money and time, and he took the task of making an actually good DMG personally because he felt so bad for 2014.
@starpencil
5 күн бұрын
The idea of a proper DMG for a new edition excites me. I'm sure I made my point more then clear while talking about 5e's DMing experience how important I think it is that wizards provides recourses for their community to make it worth while. Over the last year or so I've been reading a lot of older systems and advanced d&d material and blown away with how much better DM tools can be.
@LucasRibeiro-po4pb
5 күн бұрын
@@starpencil Gary Gygax was a DM and loved being so. AD&D was a DM centric system, and I think to great benefit because the reality is that good DMing is way more essential for a good game than good player. The 1e AD&D DMG is bedrock of game mastering I carry with me whatever TTRPG I'm playing, even of other genres of fantasy.
@LucasRibeiro-po4pb
5 күн бұрын
@@starpencil Addendum: But therein lied the problem with AD&D. DMs are a fraction of the playerbase, and that means limited revenue. Selling stuff to players turns out to be more profitable, but diminishes the lifespan of the game because of power creep and overindulgence of player desires. Soren Johnson was very wise in saying "players will optimize the fun out of a game"; to me that is what Jeremy Crawford did to 5e at the behest of Hasbro. (Don't hate on the guy, it's just a game, I just don't like his designs)
@ebonthefallen8184
4 күн бұрын
5 hour video on 5e looking forward to it.
@debtmaster
4 күн бұрын
The "proficiency die" mechanic reminds me of the Alternity system, an old d20-based sci-fi game, which I think had a licensed Starcraft setting(?). The core roll was a d20, and it was reminiscent of 3e, but modifiers came in levels which were combined and converted a single die. You could add a d12 to a roll, or even subtract if you had a penalty to your roll! Though clunky, it is novel to roll a 1d20 - 1d4 on a bad attack. Unfortunately novelty is the only real benefit.
@SerifSansSerif
2 күн бұрын
I know i'm only 35 minutes in, but point but sucks because the optimal choice is always going to reflect the same numbers as the standard array, especially when the lowest stat is an 8 and the highest you can buy is a 15. 2e had 6 methods including the old "roll 3d6 6 times and record the results under each stat as it falls" and i feel like somwhere between then and now there were other point buys that had greater ranges. In fact for earlier editions it was a common rue that you could boost your highest rolled stat for an 18, but you had to pay for it by taking your lowest stat down either an equal number of points, take the 3, (lowest possible roll), or pay by some sort of on the spot point buy. Point buy and standard array have killed a lot of the randomness, and the funny thing is players are adverse to rolls even though it's mathematically shown (and pointed out since 2e) that it's mostly going to give you above average characters (especially since the average roll is a 13 on a 4d6 drop the lowest). The new phb leans into point buy and standar areay even further.
@SerifSansSerif
2 күн бұрын
3:22 Bounded accuracy and unbounded accuracy.... You're fine with bounded accuracy as long as you have a large enough range and/or slow enough progression. Sticking to the d20 means they have a range of only about 10 on the dice without bonuses, and that in turn means your bonuses can only be so much until the bonuses matter more than the randomness of the dice. (Look at the truly broken builds with +20's and 40ac's) Dice pools Dice pools suck because it's never about the roll, just maximizing the math rocks. As for items....they're best when novelties and not necessities..... And the novelty part is the hardest to design. What you missed is that 5e is designed with class features at every level, and ones that are supposed to be impactful, not necessarily incremental, so you always feel like you're more powerful each level, but it screws with the low range of the bounded accuracy. CR is... Screwed. Mostly it's a matter of action economy and each attacks average damage, and their likelyhood to hit compared to the party's ability to soak that damage and how long it'll take to whittle the creature down and yes should be about encounter not 1v1.
@Vanessa80808
4 күн бұрын
5e for me was a great way to get into the hobby, but ever since playing pathfinder 1e I haven't looked back.
@PuritanProdcutions
6 күн бұрын
Wow Yoz cameo
@_knightsbane_3615
5 күн бұрын
Ima watch this all
@imn0tbrit1sh
7 күн бұрын
good shit
@maksimsmirnov6500
7 минут бұрын
Thank you for the video, nice essay. However, I've left DnD for DC20, it feels much better!
@Funkin_Disher
3 күн бұрын
Insight Check sent me here
@telgore2561
2 күн бұрын
Commenting to boost in the algorithm
@SerifSansSerif
2 күн бұрын
I'd also argue that other game rulebooks are too light. The DMG there's no real excuse for nor reason to buy it, but the phb is equivalent to most games core rules. And the SRD for D&D is far more robust/generous than most other games "free to try" content. Prices and lack of digital for free or lower priced digital sucks monkey balls.
@thewholesomecultist6702
5 күн бұрын
I have no idea who you are but this is great ^^
@vemu333
4 сағат бұрын
If you want to pick locks, just take a feat. Are you unaware of feats?
@thewholesomecultist6702
5 күн бұрын
Also unrelated from my last comment but great music choices
@HI-kb2cg
4 сағат бұрын
I think it shines with a few small fixes honestly and every dm has different wants allowing for simple mods to bring the game to a higher lvl for w.e type of campaign they want to run. weapons can be fixed easily I added modifiers back and fits like a glove which is why ppl like 5e it's easy to just put stuff back into the slot that they forgot to fill out. Also I do want to mention I learned 5e and dm'd 5e before I ever played as a player I learned just by watching cr and the community does welcome ppl very easily into homebrew and rule of cool because everyone wants to have fun. That's how simple it is and it did work the boom of 5e proves it more then anything which leads to tons of 3rd party content as another pro. The I'm 100 perc digital so rip book stuff and yeah they suck. there is a auto battle website that helps and cr does ok. I noticed the lack of dm help but 3rd party has carried that weight but that's not fair to the dms. I feel this is the skyrim of dnd editions ..... i wrote the conclusion before watching it hehe
@WolforNuva
2 күн бұрын
IMO you lingered on Warlocks way too long there. Having issues with the class is completely fine, but you don't need to say "I get why people like it, but it's not for me" 3 times in a row (and it felt like way more) with nothing added each time it was repeated. I quickly went from understanding that you get the merits of the class even if it's not for you to wishing I was at my computer so I could skip the chapter because yeah I get it already, you can move on now. I have a few other nitpicks, but honestly I'd have to rewatch the chapters to reprompt my memory and they were nothing so major. Enjoying the video so far on the whole, but have to pause for now and will have to watch the rest later.
@ITeaMorning
4 күн бұрын
I haven't watched your whole video, I am enyoing it so far. There is one point I want to address after watching a section: Around 41:00-45:00 - Skill points vs. Proficiency. My heart misses the skill point system from DND 3, but at the same time, the only reason I ever put points into something other than my starting selection was because I wanted one of three things: - Better bonuses from Fighting Defensively (I think it required 3 ranks in Acrobatics for an additional +1 to AC) - Prestige Class required some points in a skill. - Skill Synergies. And here's the thing: Only Fighting - better bonuses from Fighting Defensively (I think it required 3 ranks in Acrobatics for an additional +1 to AC) - saw regular usage. Skill Synergies - most of them were so situational that most rule lawyers didn't remember them (or they were house-ruled to be generic bonuses). Prestige class - this, in most cases, felt like flavor text. So, the simplification of skill point removal doesn't bother me (but I agree it's one of the symptoms of a greater problem). What I actually hate is that they went a step further by removing the dependence of skill count on intelligence and reducing the rogue to only 4 skill proficiencies instead of 36 skill points (8 full skills at level 1 - so kind of 8 proficiencies). And yes I know there is much fewer skills in DND 5. (around 2 times less) This is especially sad for me because I enjoy playing skill monkeys - characters that in combat were mostly flank bonus providers but shined outside of combat as the team handler/steward.
@Cynidecia
2 күн бұрын
2:48:24 DMs are not, i repeat, *ARE NOT STORYTELLERS.* The DM is a referee.
@09philj
2 күн бұрын
If that's your preference for the role of the gamemaster I would strongly suggest you try not playing DnD and play one of the many other games which are more designed for the gamemaster to take a less overarching role in the development of the overall events. Vampire: The Masquerade is a great one.
@Cynidecia
Күн бұрын
@@09philj Take a look at 1st edition and Basic D&D, it becomes wildly evident that d&d was not intended to have the DM as a storyteller. the *players* are the storytellers, and the story is created through play, the DM is a referee and someone who sets out an environment for a story to emerge. also VTM is entirely focussed around the GM as a storyteller.
@felixeisenhower8999
17 сағат бұрын
I'd argue that both players and DM's are story tellers, I'd also argue that maybe you shouldn't be so rude about it.
@karakaaa3371
4 күн бұрын
Saying "he died in a tragic murder suicide" is misleading when he threatened, stalked, and murdered his ex-wife, smh.
@starpencil
4 күн бұрын
I purposely choose to omit certain things from historical events for the sake of maintaining the video's tone, not to mislead. Both the full intense details of joseph batten and drama behind Mearl's ultimate exit from d&d were left purposely vague, other people are much more suited to tell those stories then I believe I am.
@danieldosso2455
5 күн бұрын
5e is definitely bloated for content
@Jescribano1
7 сағат бұрын
Nowadays I only play dnd becouse people ask me to DM it. If i am the one asked to come up with a game then OSR all the way
@harrysarso
4 күн бұрын
I must say before critical roll and stranger rhings had been watching plenty of other dnd and other ttrpg "shows" for me Critical roll was the declinen, i thik those accumilated into critical roll like a snowball effect gathering people from all over watching different shows
@devinthunderstrike
4 күн бұрын
I think your timeline is wrong
@xolotltolox7626
3 күн бұрын
I think so far my biggest contention with your video is the "marketing speak" when describign the classes, and that your assessment of what is good or bad seems very off kilter. Barbarian as one of the best martials for one is a pretty poor take, although they are a top 3 martial at least by the virtue that there are only 4 martial classes, but they are still second worst class in the game I would say the ranking goes 1) Wizard by a country mile 2) Druid 3) Cleric 4) Paladin 5) Bard 6) Sorcerer 7) Warlock 8) Artificer 9) Ranger ---------(Gap)----------- 10) Fighter -(small gap)- 11) Rogue 12) Barbarian 13) Monk edit: I do think you are probably confalting too many different definitons of "good" and "bad". Monk definitely has more interesting gameplay and is thus "better" in that sense than other classes, it is incredibly poor in terms of a balance discussion of good and bad. Having to spend resources to deal less damage than other classes can do without spending resources is simply not good. You also simply cannot comapre ki to spell slots, because spell slots letyou create actually imapctful effects and you don't run out of them after 2 turns tops also taht assessment of ranger was awful, as expected. Ranger was never the worst class, peopel just gaslit themselves into thinking it was becasue ti many features that did nothing and hyperfixated on those, instead of looking on what ranger does well. Also focusing too hard on beastmaster, when hunter ranger was actualyl a fantastic damage dealer. Skills may ahve been in theory worse than rogue, but skills suck in this game, and they have spells to supplement their abilities. With pass without trace they can give +10 to the entire party's stealth, rogue can at best have +11 to himself at the level where ranger can do that. and let's not forget that pretty much all of a rogue's use except lockpicking, can be covered by 10g and 1 hour of time spent casting Find Familiar
@austinhearn6111
3 күн бұрын
12:51
@swadbando3639
3 күн бұрын
Eh. Not a bad video at all, but there's a serious lack in mentioning the other, genuine massive issue with 5e - it's too homogenous. People flooded to 5e but never moved past it, so you had ridiculous things like people trying to backport several other systems - specially heavily skill based ones - into 5e instead of just...playing systems that fit what they actually want far more, resulting in considerable stagnation in more niche games, as opposed to having a new flow of players due to 5e's popularity. Due to just how genuinely braindead simple 5e is, I've grown tired of seeing so many people refusing to learn something that is even just a tiny bit more complex, and due to it, I've seen a ton of genuinely miserable gaming groups that aren't getting what they want, but refuse to move away from D&D regardless. To me, that is genuinely the greatest issue with it right now. It is marketed, spoken of and sold as a "Do everything" system, when what it actually does is high-fantasy dungeon crawling in a standard setting and...not actually much else. As a guy that's been around and played dozens upon dozens of systems, I really think 5e has been far more of an overall detriment to the TTRPG scene than a boon. Despite the scene truly exploding, I've never felt more restricted when looking for games outside my own group. Though thank god said group plays a wide variety of systems. Edit : Oh god fucking damnit, of course this is at least mentioned and ellaborated on in the very last ten minutes of the five hour video in the closing statements when I write my comment with fifteen minutes remaining to the end. My point still stands, granted.
@09philj
2 күн бұрын
Pedantry corner: I'd suggest that DnD forces a standard *cosmology* rather than a standard *setting*. For example Forgotten Realms, Planescape, and Ravenloft all have quite a different feel to them in terms of tone, however what you can't get away from is that the classes all have to work in a certain way which means unless you write new rules for them, you have to still work with a somewhat fixed suite of ideas about the nature of magic and the divine and things like that in order for the classes to function. I think this chafes pretty badly with the weirder settings like Ravenloft and especially Planescape.
@starpencil
2 күн бұрын
At one point I planned on talking about who modular and moddable 5e is and how that is genuinely a strength of the system but I feel like it's the equivalent of saying. "Skyrim is saved because you can mod it" sure, the system has tons of amazing homebrew out there, and it is super easy for anyone with at least some experience to "fix" any issues. But that's an element of subjective praise based on whether you enjoy creating and designing your own mechanics. That being said... Since such a large population of TTRPG gamers knows how to play 5e if you want players especially for more niche settings or stories (I.E anything sci-fi or horror) you're kinda just left having to mod the system, and then the results of said game are gonna be all over
@swadbando3639
Күн бұрын
@@09philj That's pedantry, sure, but also not really untrue. I definitelyl do not think Ravenloft or Planescape work at ALL with how 5e is structured, specially Ravenloft, which is meant to be so gritty, which...5e is not.
@swadbando3639
Күн бұрын
@@starpencil That's exactly it. Can you "mod" 5e? Sure. I'm actually extremely experienced in homebrewing (Though I do it for PF and Battletech). But at the end of the day, you're still stacking layers atop of a very bad foundation. I feel many of the issues with 5e are structural, which is why it never ends up tasting well for a lot of the people I've interacted with. Sci-Fi and specially horror 5e genuinely feels like an absolute joke. God knows it was hard to get people to try out Battletech or Traveller. That's also why I feel one of the points you brought up as being the strongest part of 5e...isn't. You said that 5e brings a ton of new players into the hobby- but I really don't think it does. 5e brings a lot of players into 5e. From casual observation, a very smal percentage of players that got into TTRPGs because of 5e actually branch out for anything. They just remain attached to 5e forever, or just leave the the hobby entirely after a few months. Also, for clarity, as I feel like I may have come off a bit dismissive - this video is good, and deserves more views. I disagree with a LOT of points you've raised (I really can't agree with any of the praise you gave to class design), but this is well-researched and put together, and I respect the opinions put forth.
@SerifSansSerif
2 күн бұрын
Food and encumbrance rules have been there since day 1 and it's just there because the odd jackass is going to request it.
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