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@ritswik
Ай бұрын
You didn't partner with them,you got a referral link just like everyone else 😅
@AlexDuvall
Ай бұрын
@@ritswik had to meet them and make sure this was something I’d want to promote. I’d consider that partnering
@PissyKnish
Ай бұрын
@@AlexDuvall LOL Are you partnered with Raid Shadow Legends too?
@PissyKnish
Ай бұрын
LOL Are you partnered with Raid Shadow Legends too?
@TSM-908
Ай бұрын
Is your poker code 100% honest if real cash is being wagered. All gambling sites and even high street bookmakers have started to occasionally NOT pay out on their bets, this has happened numerous times in the past few years in the U.K.
@michaelnemet9004
Ай бұрын
I'm a chess player. The rules in the playing hall is NO cell phones. You pull out your cell in the hall? INSTANT DISQUALIFICATION! Poker needs to do the same.
@tommaertz5597
Ай бұрын
Same as strip clubs!
@kagepoker
Ай бұрын
Talking should not be allowed either, just like in chess.
@geraltofrivia2570
Ай бұрын
it's way worse in chess
@stevenkurniawan6521
Ай бұрын
Uh... In my country bringing phone is fine But it need to be turned off or else instant disqualification
@mememus499
Ай бұрын
Yeah, they should also check if the players are wearing any beads!
@stigmazzta
Ай бұрын
100% on the floor for not enforcing rules
@PIGGEBANK
Ай бұрын
uhhhh and the cheaters themselves obviously.
@davep7176
Ай бұрын
Is it really cheating if the tournament organisers are actively allowing it?
@CantForgetNow
Ай бұрын
@@davep7176 yes, because it's against state law.
@davep7176
Ай бұрын
@@CantForgetNow Then the organisers are in breach of the law.
@CilettiSpaghetti
Ай бұрын
Yeah I don’t get how they see it going on and didn’t intervene
@nobodyhere22500
Ай бұрын
$40 buy in tournament at your local casino: "One player to a hand." WSOP main event heads up for 10 million dollars: "Do whatever you want, it's fine."
@aaronyoung2807
Ай бұрын
😂😂😂 facts
@cj7139
Ай бұрын
Good job, you got the Heart emoji from click-baiting Alex!
@AlienationIsReal
Ай бұрын
You can't talk about your hand heads up...but you can goto the rail and ask pros and have them run computer simulations for you. Wtf.
@hm09235nd
Ай бұрын
I'm not a pokey guy, but this right here is ridiculous beyond belief. How could it even occur in the first place, let alone the guy defending it on twitter!? What a joke!
@scottyP1672
Ай бұрын
Lmao. It’s because they’ve made it a spectacle, and it kind of is. Watching the final table doesn’t feel like poker anymore
@billybegood466
Ай бұрын
They announced at the start of the tournament that solvers would get people kicked out. There's no question that they cheated.
@Flowerz__
Ай бұрын
Why werent they kicked out?
@Kenneth2413
26 күн бұрын
@@Flowerz__now that is the big question!
@CosmicAeon
25 күн бұрын
I also love the idea that "But...but .... I promised my fwiend I'd help him win!" is somehow a valid justification for cheating. But yeah, wtf are the tournament organisers doing?
@DubYuhGChoppa
Ай бұрын
Imagine if Chess players just had a laptop next to them lol what a joke.
@anonymousXXXX619
Ай бұрын
Chess tournaments are super strict about computer assistance. Poker is a joke
@danielbecker9257
Ай бұрын
But wasn't this between hands? It would be the equivalent of performing analysis of moves in between games, right?
@traviscoates6878
Ай бұрын
@@danielbecker9257It was not between hands. It would be a non story if it was between hands
@EternalCreator
Ай бұрын
He never left mid hand wtf
@kevinmclain6741
Ай бұрын
Chess and games like poker with imperfect information have zero relation.
@ronb8052
Ай бұрын
There's nothing "unbecoming" about losing four million dollars to a cheater. I think any jury would see the winner repeatedly going from his chair to the rail and eventually winning the tournament. If Doug is correct and Nevada law prohibits getting advice from another source, this case should be a slam dunk for the second place winner. I'd demand the WSOP declare me the winner or it will be lawsuit time.
@armando.visuals
Ай бұрын
100%
@nicwatkins1737
Ай бұрын
Alan Keating believes it is feminine behavior to sue people when they have committed crimes
@PSOnoni
Ай бұрын
He had such a weird take like just accept you lost $4 mil to a cheater? What is the manly way? Go beat people up? Give me a break lmao
@storminnormanddick2484
Ай бұрын
Its not losing 4 mil for ending up 2nd, all the other players there got screwed by this, if tamayo is DQ,d or gets ko,d earlier without the help griff doesnt necessarily win, the ten mill should be forfeited and probly split at least between the other 8 players
@YouGotHousesWeGotMahomes
Ай бұрын
Drama queen. Go take a nap you dork
@jamesralph8970
Ай бұрын
Tournaments should be run straight up. No cell phones. No rails birds. Disqualify that cheater.
@relicdad88
Ай бұрын
I think cell phone is ok 2 have on u but only 4 like family emergencys calls. If ur playing poker then play the game not be distracted by whatever on ur phone and yea ppl on the rails no advice should be given period strategize on ur own time not while tourney is going on.
@bigbaggy
Ай бұрын
which rule did he break....
@bender6316
Ай бұрын
@@relicdad88 if you can't give up your phone to play in a poker tournament. Then don't play.
@allancouceiro9255
Ай бұрын
If you're expecting family emergencies, go home.Phones can be used to cheat at poker, so ban phones for players in the poker room.
@jamesveaudry5151
Ай бұрын
He didn't beat him, straight up, don't pay that man his money!
@leojoseph6385
Ай бұрын
Poker is not a team sport. Getting help from others at the table or rail, clearly violates the rules of the game. There has to be an example made in order to deter future desperate players or investors. Banning players for a considerable time from tournaments should be an option.
@Foxtrot6624
Ай бұрын
This is completely untrue hahaha. You can talk to whoever the fuck you want, about whatever the fuck you want as long as it’s not interfering with the specific hand in play if you’re not in it.
@leojoseph6385
Ай бұрын
@@Foxtrot6624 As stated in WSOP 2024 Rule 20: No teams, substitutes, transfers, or Assisted Play will be permitted, except as allowed in the rules for designated “Tag Team” events.
@Foxtrot6624
Ай бұрын
@@leojoseph6385 Yeah, and that means exactly what I just said. You can’t fuck with a hand in progress. You can’t do team play meaning I can’t bring along a buddy to sit beside and help me and no subs means I can’t hand my chip stack off to my friend to take over for me when I’m bored. There is absolutely 0 rules against going over and talking to the rail between hand.
@leojoseph6385
Ай бұрын
@@Foxtrot6624 It states No Assisted Play will be permitted. That means you’re on your own during the tournament. It includes not getting helped by your rail buddy’s laptop & advice.
@Foxtrot6624
Ай бұрын
@@leojoseph6385 No, it literally doesn’t, hence this whole debacle. Everyone knows it’s morally incorrect to use live assistance, but it nowhere in the rules verbatim disallows it. There was a message put out over the intercom disallowing live aid, but that’s not good enough, there needs to be written rules clear from signup. Smuggling a laptop onto the rails of a final table would be completely impossible, casinos are as secure as some prisons. The guy was allowed stroll up, bring it in and sit down. This was a moral failure sure by the player, but it’s a far far bigger and more egregious logistical error by WSOP to ever even a allow this scenario to happen. There is a reason why every other serious game/sport etcs highest levels have incredibly long, complex and detailed rulings on individual scenarios, so there is as little vagueness and room for abuse as possible, but that is entirely different than talking to the rail which is absolutely allowed between hands.
@davidf8360
Ай бұрын
Not just $4M. Potential brand deals, fame, prestige, a VERY nice bracelet, etc... I'd be talking to lawyers
@AlexDuvall
Ай бұрын
True
@OneOut1
Ай бұрын
I imagine hs is.
@cj7139
Ай бұрын
Alex, quit pandering to these losers. FFS, you know better.
@lordtraxx4217
Ай бұрын
@@OneOut1 I doubt it or he wouldn’t have done the Doug Polk podcast. If you’re talking to lawyers the #1 thing they will say is don’t talk to anyone about the case
@michaelmoore-realestateage176
Ай бұрын
I agree I would absolutely seek legal counsel over this
@NOREMAC007
Ай бұрын
As an outsider who knows very little about poker, it seems absolutely insane that players can go meet with a group of people with laptops/software DURING a hand. How tf is that not an instant DQ? What am I missing here?
@geoffreyedwards3425
Ай бұрын
He's not being accused of that. He's being accused of consulting on best strategy between hands. "Did I play that hand right?" "What hands should open raise in these table conditions?" etc. etc.
@NOREMAC007
Ай бұрын
@@geoffreyedwards3425I see. Thanks for the explanation. That’s not quite as bad but still seems wrong. What’s the general consensus amongst players? Are most ok with this or against it?
@geoffreyedwards3425
Ай бұрын
@@NOREMAC007 I should also have said that you are explicitly not allowed to stand up and move around during a hand you are (unless there is no possibility of more action). Nobody will care much if you just stretch your legs and sit down, of course, but going to the rail wouldn't be tolerated. I have no particular insight into the consensus in this case but I think most poker players think what was done was wrong. The question is really whether it was in a legal gray area or not. My guess that 50% think it's outright cheating and most of the rest think it is morally suspect but could be defended in court.
@nitthegrit7544
Ай бұрын
Griff should absolutely sue. Not necessarily for the purposes of garnering any kind of monetary settlement, but to keep this issue in the limelight, and force the gaming organizations to improve their security & integrity procedures for these live events.
@DreadX10
Ай бұрын
Yep, sue, just to have a ruling on this matter so we can move forward. WSOP promises to do better in the future simply wouldn't be enough.
@nitthegrit7544
Ай бұрын
@@DreadX10 Exactly. This kind of thing can't rely on empty promises. There needs to be mandated action.
@ChokeslamToHell
Ай бұрын
You wanna pay those legal bills?
@brightestfuture
Ай бұрын
i dont want to play vs a team of pros with laptops.
@nitthegrit7544
Ай бұрын
@@ChokeslamToHell These guys have millions. Lawyers fees are chump change for them.
@knowafrank5522
Ай бұрын
The real fault here lies with the WSOP. They should have at the very least, not have the laptop visible on the fucking live stream. Jesus fucking Christ who is in charge over there? What a terrible look for the game in what is supposed to be the greatest event in all of poker. Unbelievably terrible management.
@videosmurf
Ай бұрын
Did the commentators say anything?
@hw2508
Ай бұрын
Maybe it was intentional to have it visible because someone wanted this to be a topic and be taking care of.
@TonyEnglandUK
19 күн бұрын
Daniel is 100% right, it's such a self-evident corruption of the entire game of poker.
@Franko-eg6iu
Ай бұрын
9 laptops ( on ) a final table. 2 guys on the rails Guy 1 - is that player stalling? Guy 2 - Nah , he’s running solvers………😂🤠
@willy_lime
Ай бұрын
"He's just using his time wisely"
@arcadion448
20 күн бұрын
@@willy_lime - No, it's Martin Kabhrel playing solitaire. He'll eventually fold after tanking with 2-7 pre-plop.
@Eaton_Beaver-jy8lp
Ай бұрын
Could you imagine if Hellmuth was the other player? I bet that shit would have been shut down immediately after he noticed.
@garylucier6817
Ай бұрын
We hVe not seen the Poker Brat Helmuth's eyes in decades. He wears sunglasses constantly.
@SethRadius1
Ай бұрын
1000% he would have shit that shit down. Without question it would have been brought up and attention would be on it every time it was used.
@Corndadthepop
Ай бұрын
He might have had a coronary. It would literally be dangerous if he were in the room.
@cheetah219
Ай бұрын
Honestly, given helmuths behavior and years of bad performance, I wouldn't be surprised if he is trying to find a way to use these same tools himself but still admonish others. Best recent example I have - at pokergo (see Doug polks most recent video) his repeated use of attack language and insulting players, during live play. He's not mad at the situation, he is mad at the player for not playing in a way that guarantees Phil to win. But, then, the second a player talks the same way back to him, Phil goes back to insult language and walks off stage. If Helmuth respected the game, he wouldn't act the way he does. I don't care how many WSOP bracelets he has, they mean nothing when an adult doesn't have integrity and self control
@jsahkljdhkashvbosild
Ай бұрын
Hellmuth would believe he could just beat the computer
@FractionalMateo
Ай бұрын
Let's not forget it is against the law - not just a rule or an ordinance or a preference!
@stefanharris659
Ай бұрын
Thank you
@eightinnn
Ай бұрын
What is the law? Just curious
@JohnS-il1dr
Ай бұрын
Since when does the law matter anymore? We have politicians ignoring it like no arrests for 2020 Summer of Love riots.
@YouGotHousesWeGotMahomes
Ай бұрын
What law? Reference it dork. Otherwise go take a nap.
@climbon3157
Ай бұрын
@@JohnS-il1dr give me ONE riot in which nobody was arrested. Go ahead, I'll wait.
@davecothran
Ай бұрын
You're not suing to 'not be a man,' you're suing to make a precedent for the future of poker.
@geoffreyedwards3425
Ай бұрын
Sure. Sue the casino, get a huge judgement, and then see if they ever host the WSOP again after that precedent is set.
@pepkep
Ай бұрын
I will never ever play online again for this reason. Honestly this is it. There is money to be stolen.
@williamgates2404
Ай бұрын
It's why I quit playing online
@Dzaandry
Ай бұрын
I'm a reg on GG, and I can assure you there are almost no cheaters mid stakes and high stakes. How I do know it? I review all of my final tables in a solver and I can see that everyone is making horrendous mistakes. Constantly. So... Just play on stars/gg, cheaters don't live long there. If you have to play in some subpar shady American room, then yeah, you might have a problem.
@WhiteS4NL
Ай бұрын
@andreydzyuba9122 Almost is not 0. It only takes 1 at your table. Pls its like saying because U dont know anyone who drinks and drive u can ALMOST asure us there are no drunk drivers. Ofc there are cheaters online also on mid and high stakes. There are less on higher stakes but more then u will find out about. U think they copy the exact data of the Solver non stop? Stop being this naive!
@dipdo7675
Ай бұрын
If you’re playing online and not using a solver, or expecting the other players aren’t, then you’re a fool!
@id10t98
Ай бұрын
Online poker has been rigged since day 1. A computer program CANNOT randomly generate hands because it already knows what cards it burned and dealt. Also it's little more than an algorithm to funnel money to the sites sponsored players.
@MrZola1234
Ай бұрын
The penalty should be disqualification and permanent ban.
@relativetimeworx8459
Ай бұрын
It's not the 2nd place guy who should file legal action - it's anybody at a pay jump line who was significantly impacted.
@scottsharp1763
Ай бұрын
As a first time WSOP participant this year it was ABSOLUTELY offensive and ridiculous that the first thing announced before the cards went in the air was “and remember players no problem solvers at the table during play!” ?????? Everyone who didn’t already have a problem solver app downloaded immediately pulled oot the phone and downloaded one?! The only tournament I’ve ever played in that I KNEW PLAYERS were factually cheating was this year at the wsop, easiest place to cheat period, trying to listen to IDIOTS SPEAK OM SOMETHING THEY COULDVE STOPPED BEFORE NOW IS PATHETIC.,. hey u wanna cheat, play in the wsop, easiest tourney to do so period
@id10t98
Ай бұрын
The wsop became a joke when Negreanu and others were allowed to spend unlimited amounts buying in repeatedly.
@TSM-908
Ай бұрын
@@scottsharp1763 the Nevada gaming commission defers many ruling decisions to the actual location where the game is being played. As I said the commission has never outlawed card counting on blackjack games and this is just human brain power, they leave it up to the individual casino to determine the level of counting that they will allow. It is not a legally unlawful act in a casino to card count it’s just a local casino rule that each casino applies for their own establishment.
@derekrice5203
Ай бұрын
Everyone focused on the laptop but why is no one talking about the ear piece and how it was quickly handed off twice after the victory? Super shady
@JohnnyAppleseed-yl6fo
Ай бұрын
I remember the good ol' days when cell phones and laptops just weren't allowed at the table.
@justinbing8730
Ай бұрын
Get rid of the rail. Problem solved.
@Thanks-bj1fo
Ай бұрын
Creates more problems. Without the show, well there is no show.
@infiniteregress8032
Ай бұрын
@@Thanks-bj1foget rid of players being able to leave their seat to check the rail every single fuckkn hand there you go show goes on
@Thanks-bj1fo
Ай бұрын
@@infiniteregress8032 that makes sense, unlike the original suggestion
@snerdterguson
Ай бұрын
Isn't the show the actual.poker players playing poker? I've never turned on the WSOP because I wanted to see people on the rail. I want to watch some poker.
@peterkerr4019
29 күн бұрын
put the crowd in a different room where they can watch but not interact with the players.
@randolphbrandelli5633
Ай бұрын
I am an attorney. I would be shocked if a lawsuit is not filed. Seems like an easy win against the cheaters and the host for negligence. Plus the amount at issue is big enough to pursue. A case will be filed and the WSOP will be forced to address this issue and make changes
@DixiePokerAce
Ай бұрын
I get all that but "proving" this case to jurors won't be easy.
@randolphbrandelli5633
Ай бұрын
@@DixiePokerAce I’m not positive, but it sounded like this behavior was against Nevada state law. So even if it wasn’t against the rules of the game exactly, if they can show they violated the law, that should be enough
@YouGotHousesWeGotMahomes
Ай бұрын
You are a lawyer and see it as an easy win. You spent all that time in law school to be this shitty? Brutal. The university you graduated from is hoping you don't list them on your LinkedIn profile. You should find another profession.
@YouGotHousesWeGotMahomes
Ай бұрын
@@randolphbrandelli5633 Sad that you spent all that time in law school to land here.
@matthewcortecero703
Ай бұрын
@@YouGotHousesWeGotMahomespeople with an education shouldn’t comment on hobbies videos they enjoy? let me hop out of here then and leave the insightful comments to you 😅
@TimC887
Ай бұрын
The whole earbud thing after the win looked soooooo sketchy. lol
@buffalohed1
Ай бұрын
the wearing of the ear bud and the sketchy actions is not discussed enough...that is also cheating
@George_Taylor_
Ай бұрын
If laptops are allowed on the rail, there WILL sooner or later be teams who will use electronic signaling to pass along real time assistance in the middle of hands. Just need to rig a way to communicate what the player's hand is, and it's only 2 hole cards. The flop, turn and river are there for everyone to see, so no need for signaling on that part, just need the guy with the laptop to be able to see the cards on the board from the rail. Then a simple, Morse Code-style signal system as to whether to bet, raise, fold, how much to bet, etc. Somewhat difficult, to be sure, but hardly impossible, and for millions people WILL lick the necessary problems to make it work. This shit has to be stopped like YESTERDAY. Laptops and cell phones on the rail at these tournaments need to be banned. If you take your cell phone out of your pocket, you get ejected. Period.
@jamesomara3361
Ай бұрын
you don't even need to do all that to give a pro player a MASSIVE advantage. You can give them exact GTO ranges and percentages with the right information. I'm sure a clever person could develop a system where they give a percentage call raise fold based on ranges with some sort of zapper or clicker. It's just silly what's possible now.
@mjh8492
Ай бұрын
@George_Taylor_ bone conducting head set things are getting smaller and sleeker. You can literally get voice communication with zero sound leak out. One well placed camera that can gather and transmit the cards on the table. Could be on a player or spectator, or somebody who has control of their casino or area can rig it up easily overhead. If there's enough money to be won people will try to cheat.
@burtgalore
Ай бұрын
@@mjh8492 no voice needed. 1 buzz fold, 2 buzz call, 3 buzz raise. Put it in a hat like in the MLB.
@ijustwannaleaveacommentony6511
Ай бұрын
they were communicating. tomayo had an earpiece.
@maries.6758
Ай бұрын
He had an earpiece, which explains why he had to pull his hoodie up over his ears while at the table/while playing and not up when he was standing at the rail. Next, one guy at the rail was only wearing one earbud which fell out at the end, but where was the other earbud? Inside the hoodie to communicate.
@KrackinAA
Ай бұрын
I actually have a video of a guy beside me at the WSOP in Toronto a few months ago using his phone while in hands with the charts pulled up. And even during the hands he was inputting his cards to see what it tells him to do. When I called him out on it, he acted like it was normal and ok to do. I was pissed. About an hour later I took him out with my KK vs his K 10 shove. He was SB and I was BB (74 BB shove I called) He had the audacity to tell me that was a standard shove on his part and because his battery was low on his phone he couldn't use his tracker.
@bayareaaa
Ай бұрын
I’m just really curious as to WHY no one, even WSOP officials scrutinize this until after the fact? It’s not like they were secretive about it.
@southerncharity7928
28 күн бұрын
Too much soy. Lack of male role models. Seriously, clearly there is something wrong society.
@EricLussier-no5no
Ай бұрын
Im a dealer..in vegas..this is crazy..i would not deal a card till it was put away..daniel..youre a pro .i have watched you for 20 years..nothing but respect on and off the table..gl..eric😊
@Raskolnikov32
Ай бұрын
Every new poker controversy exposes us to a new load of scumbags while also reminding us of scumbags we'd forgotten and revealing scumbaggery we'd never heard of. Cesspool of a game.
@jbmhsv
Ай бұрын
I think that one of the worst parts that no one is saying directly is that with what they were doing, they could do range isolation in real time. THAT is pretty much cheating; rules or not.
@ijustwannaleaveacommentony6511
Ай бұрын
tomayo was wearing an earpiece. they tried to remove it on the sly but got caught on camera. 100 percent cheating
@jamespearson00
Ай бұрын
That's exactly what they're doing. Range isolation at the micro level, 12bb, 15bb, 20bb, 24bb, 28bb, 30bb. It's insane.
@GJT-w3y
Ай бұрын
The problem with not suing is there is no other real recourse. In the old days, Tamayo and Dom would already have been physically dealt with, but now, you can't do that as easily.
@schwamforfreedom
Ай бұрын
6:10 Daniel is right, with one exception. If the Nevada Gaming Control Board were to bring charges and convict anyone on Tomato, a civil lawsuit to follow would not have to prove the cheating part, just the damages caused and would probably make suing a financially sound decision. Regardless of criminal charges, you most likely sue the player, his team members, the operator and anyone they hired to provide cheating oversight if it wasn't all in house.
@TheWanderingDukes
Ай бұрын
Yup.. I concur in your counsel
@danlorett2184
Ай бұрын
Definitely go to the Gaming Commission at least. This was a flagrant felony live on national television!
@grutopsy
Ай бұрын
Its a mistake of the floors and everyone present there. I wonder what can be done now, probably nothing.
@stefanharris659
Ай бұрын
They need to sue the casino and the wsop
@gfresh6
Ай бұрын
How did no one complain and call the floor and get this shit stopped. Getting an advantage by help from other players or people on the rail should not be allowed period.
@arnaud4588
Ай бұрын
@@gfresh6 true although its though to blame the runner up, your are playing for a bracelet I bet he thought his best shot was to not entertain it and play his most focused game. Its a shame, I hope he gets the bracelet and the "winner" get disqualified like it often happens after the race is finished in F1 or even Atlheticism
@boasirowen
Ай бұрын
There's a very easy logical way to determine if it deserves suing. If the use of solvers is now used against the casino instead of other players, do you not think the casino will be suing the player using the solver? This path of thinking will be much more straightforward
@xancypillosi
Ай бұрын
Phil Ivey edge sorting
@jamespearson00
Ай бұрын
@xancypillosi The difference in Iveys edge sorting was the casino agreed to it, and it was all within gaming commission rules. And even though he won, the casino still made money, they promoted it.
@Hakushodemon
Ай бұрын
makes me wonder if my poker opponents are using sims against me now too
@AlexDuvall
Ай бұрын
Live no. Never a worry. Online it’s getting easier
@dr.hairbrain1486
Ай бұрын
if youre playing online, ofc they are
@cj7139
Ай бұрын
You don't know what "using sims" even means, so don't worry about it.
@lordtraxx4217
Ай бұрын
If you’re playing online they 100% are
@skinovtheperineum1208
Ай бұрын
Anyone who gambles online gets EXACTLY what he or she deserves.
@bustertn2014
Ай бұрын
I grew up in Vegas. I have seen people walked out for playing on their phones or trying to while it's on their thigh playing on the cheap tables. It's just NOT done. Not sure why ANY electronics would be allowed in any type of tourney. No cell's, no laptops, no observers within 25 feet. Something that will cancel cell signals also needs to be used to make sure NOBODY can get any communications. Just the players, the dealers and camera's to cover the game. Nobody should be close enough to signal or tip or pass any type of info.
@anonymousXXXX619
Ай бұрын
Suing is not necessary. The winner guy's name will be tainted and he'll forever be known as the poker pro that needed a whole team of other poker pros with RTA software, in real time, to beat an amateur. Hopefully it causes real changes in WSOP though
@nobodyhere22500
Ай бұрын
Which would you rather have - 4 million dollars, poker sponsorship deals, and a bracelet, or... *checks notes* "the other guy's reputation is tainted."
@anonymousXXXX619
Ай бұрын
6 million won honestly the way poker was intended to be played > 10 million won by a team of poker scammer nerds
@OneOut1
Ай бұрын
@anonymousXXXX6tell you banker that19
@tanthony298
Ай бұрын
@anonymousXXXX619 I feel like most people are looking at Griff as the winner anyways regardless of the solvers Tamaywho?
@DreadX10
Ай бұрын
Suing is necessary (no settlements though!). It forces a ruling that WSOP allowed breaking of the rules set by the Nevada gaming comity. Next tournament/opportunity, the floor will walk up to the laptop user and check if no rules are being broken.
@andrewmcfarlane4724
Ай бұрын
it's kind of like playing in a basketball game and one guy is allowed to travel over and over.. and no one says anything until after the guy has already won the title and is off with the trophy... "wait a minute... that guy was travelling the whole time"..
@sugarnads
Ай бұрын
So lebron james entire career.
@andrewmcfarlane4724
Ай бұрын
@@sugarnads lol
@timmyp34
Ай бұрын
Alan Keating wants to make someone an offer he can't refuse!
@DreadX10
Ай бұрын
And if he's not then he is making an offer they can't accept. Alan Keating does make a cash-game more entertaining to watch and I applaud him for it.
@simonvh7092
Ай бұрын
7:30 for anyone just joining calc is short for calculator guys, he's just using slang
@M8E1
Ай бұрын
Great edit! Commentary was smooth and the video wasn't about you, but you added continuity and gave us shorter format listeners the gist. I wanted to watch that Doug, keaton, Daniel pod. No time
@AlexDuvall
Ай бұрын
Great comment, thanks a lot
@markcossman200
Ай бұрын
Is it just me or isn't there a simple solution....just make a rule players can't go to the rail.....what am I missing?
@NrthrnKnght
Ай бұрын
no phones or laptops in playing room end of story
@markcossman200
Ай бұрын
@@NrthrnKnght right!!
@KyleKnoblauch
Ай бұрын
Remember the good old days when we weren’t even allowed to get our cell phones out in the poker room?
@ccdxdhk1575
Ай бұрын
7:07 exceedingly awful take by keating
@simonglancy7070
Ай бұрын
a so called poker pro making a bad take what a shocker that is. The nuber of time Negraou had mis read or played extremely badly and gotten luck is untrue. Yet he is hialed as a poker genius nope just very lucky.
@ccdxdhk1575
Ай бұрын
@@simonglancy7070 what
@cbghbvgm1962
Ай бұрын
Hes under the impression they can solve it as men or poker players or as a prop. But this is pure scum. A guy doing this wouldnt be up for solving it like that.
@MrZola1234
Ай бұрын
Correction of Daniel's statement at the 10:30 when he said you can't play with any aids according to the gaming commission rules, which are directed at the house games, but applies to poker as well. This is incorrect, you can't use computers or digital aids, but you can use paper aids, such as the basic strategy charts in the giftshop for BJ. Not a big deal in this case, but the gaming rules would not cover the use of preflop decision charts written down or printed out.
@halecarter7041
Ай бұрын
Nope. Paper notes are banned.
@MrZola1234
Ай бұрын
@halecarter7041 no, you can track decisions at house games all you want, and people use those basic strategy cards all the time.
@halecarter7041
Ай бұрын
@@MrZola1234House games perhaps. But not the WSOP.
@MrZola1234
Ай бұрын
@halecarter7041 my original comment was directed at his statement regarding gaming commission general gaming rules, not WSOP announcements or written rules that may be more restrictive. I covered that destinction very clearly in my original comment.
@SFreedberg1
Ай бұрын
You're 100% right on what you said - of course you can use basic strategy charts, paper and pencil at baccarat, roulette etc. Without knowing, I assumed the gaming rules only applied to house games, but you clarified poker also.
@pepkep
Ай бұрын
Suing is not embarrassing. Sometimes it’s needed. Lawyers will let you know if there is a case. Discovery would be awesome if it went that far.
@MashaRistova
9 күн бұрын
Alan Keating is such a lame for that take. I can’t believe he said that. He must care way too much about people think about him. He’s super insecure and goes to ridiculous lengths to try to look “cool” and like he DoEsNt CaRe
@kakalis2323
Ай бұрын
It doesn't matter how much was gained from using a solver. Or how hard that is to prove. It gives SOME advantage. It is illegal to do. You should give up the prize money and split it among the table
@uchibenkei
14 күн бұрын
I've never been at a casino poker table where electronics were allowed. You even pull your phone out to check the time and the dealer will say something.
@sup3rshe3p20
Ай бұрын
We had an old saying back in the day. "Don't tap the tank"
@TomH...
Ай бұрын
How does 'don't tap the aquarium ' apply here?
@sup3rshe3p20
Ай бұрын
@@TomH... recreationals see this and don't want to play
@chad0x
16 күн бұрын
Its not in the written rules bevause noone ever thought it would need to be included. Like you cant flip over your opponents cards before making a call, it doesnt need to be written down.
@cbjungle68
Ай бұрын
Should be no laptops, no cell phones, no music, no anything. Should be players and cards only...not even help from the sidelines. You play at the table. If you are the best (or have the most luck), then you win. Anything else is a joke.
@aaronmullet8960
Ай бұрын
This is like flopping in basketball to get the ref to call a charge when it’s not. It deception and trickery to get an incorrect call. Is flopping illegal? No. Is it frowned upon? By some yes. By other it’s part of the game. Some ppl do it some ppl don’t. It’s an unwritten rule and takes away from the integrity of the game. Like hitting a player in baseball with a pitch after they hit your guy. Is that assault with a weapon? All these situations depend on where you draw the line. Everyone is gonna say the line is right after what they’re doing. Daniel included. He said his notes during play are fine. But if someone wrote down every solver how is that different?
@aloha270999
Ай бұрын
Embarrassing to sue for 4 million? Not for me. So what's 30% for the lawyer. Dom is a biachy
@danlorett2184
Ай бұрын
Yeah weird insecurity for that guy "it's not manly". It's not manly to lose $4m to a cheater on national TV and then roll over and do nothing, buddy.
@williamneitzel2249
Ай бұрын
Has anyone looked into the reasoning that the WSOP rules for the Main Event were NOT in accordance with the Nevada Gaming Commission where devices are concerned ? Something banned in one set of rules should be covered without any ambiguity.
@PazmanBC
Ай бұрын
Very easy to solve in the future. This is no different that using a performance enhancing drug. Simply no contact with the audience during play of the final table & the players should sequestered during breaks like a jury. Also no electronic devices at the tables & players should be scanned for any listening devices. Obviously you can't do much with the early stages of a tournament. However players are jumping around & changing tables, etc so it would be much harder to gain a significant advantage.
@calumhughes2778
Ай бұрын
The rule “one player to a hand” clarifies this i think. It should be the mind and knowledge of one player vs the mind and knowledge of another player. The line for me between a hand sheet and this is collecting and referring to past information VS utilising up to date new information.
@finalben7
Ай бұрын
No reason for anyone in the room, playing or watching, to have a phone. Millions of dollars are on the line, put your phone away for 8 hours and pay attention.
@tux1968
13 күн бұрын
All the poker bloggers, like Brad Owen, will hate that.
@finalben7
12 күн бұрын
Plenty of ways to film something without a phone. GoPro for example.
@kioplqwerty
8 күн бұрын
ok hitler, keep telling people what to do
@mannyguagliardo8765
Ай бұрын
Sueing is not to receive a monetary compensation but to set legal precedent so there is no grey area next time.
@methuseluh1
Ай бұрын
Why was there no talk of the ear piece in the Polk 3 way video?
@cincinnattitude
Ай бұрын
"I find it unbecoming for people to use the legal processes available to them to right wrongs" is certainly a take. Not one many people with brains would agree with, but it's a take.
@Molurus73
Ай бұрын
The poker world seems a bit late to the party when it comes to cheating. In chess we've had this for decades, and the poker world can learn from what they do there. Cheating in online chess has become really, really hard. And in real life chess, you're not allowed to have a phone, or even a watch. Not even a normal analogue watch.
@TrickTrades
Ай бұрын
What Alan said about suing...........I love this guy even more.
@williamgates2404
Ай бұрын
How many millions is he worth? Easy for him to say...
@xancypillosi
Ай бұрын
Yes yes, it’s the lawsuit that’s “unbecoming”, NOT the cheating teams colliding in tournaments
@nicwatkins1737
Ай бұрын
Yeah bro if you sue people you are not a man you are a pussy. As a man, you are supposed to just let people cheat and steal from you and do nothing about it.
@LionAndALamb
Ай бұрын
He would never be able to show his face on the polo field again if he sued.
@mr_sm0k3y60
Ай бұрын
Both Dominik and the winner should be permanently banned from all future WSOP events for this.
@robertwest4596
Ай бұрын
I totally totally agree about the headphones one. At one WSOP event, I had a girl with her headphones literally DANCING in her chair to her music, kicking me under the tables, moving her head constantly and it was SOOOOO fricking annoying.
@bannman
Ай бұрын
In case anyone is wondering imo this is the equivalent of playing a top level competitive game but you have a opening book of all forms as assistance to get u through the beginning part of the game
@nicholi2789
Ай бұрын
I also think Keating had a pretty tone deaf take here. His perspective as a billionaire playing against whales bears no resemblance to what it’s like to play as a normal low/mid stakes player. Some people don’t want to be social, they want to play cards and listen to their music. Some people like to wear sunglasses. Who cares. Maybe he wouldn’t allow it in his private $1000/$2000 game but that is not even in the same ballpark as your regular 2/5 game at your local casino.
@ffish6661
Ай бұрын
Whats even the point of playing live at that point ? Just play online if you wanna chill and listen to music. And I say that as a mainly online player.
@Montecitodesign
Ай бұрын
Yes, what does the Nevada Gaming Commission have to say about this? Suing is expensive to everyone except the lawyers.
@Prolific_Troll
Ай бұрын
RIP poker.
@AlexDuvall
Ай бұрын
Nooo long live
@barrywagoner5191
13 күн бұрын
Listened for only 5 minutes, and I can confidently say this: Just because you CAN do something (if within the rules) doesn't mean you SHOULD do it. I could find loopholes to get an advantage at almost anything. Cheating and doing something wrong aren't always one in the same.
@DANNYsosick
Ай бұрын
WAIT.... Polk and DNEGS both used PF charts when playing against each other HU on a Nevada regulated website (which Polk said is clearly against regulations)....
@andreinusko
Ай бұрын
well they had a gentlemens agreement on it
@davidicousgregorian
Ай бұрын
There was a guy playing with paper note at the table while he had a hand and the floor is call and told you can't use side notes so why did they allow computerized side notes
@tuzalolol3676
Ай бұрын
Its shady af but theres alot of money on the line. The floor could have stopped it. Sounds like a new rule is needed.
@howardtreesong4860
Ай бұрын
The fact that there's a lot of money on the line doesn't make it right. "Oh, it's for a lot of money, well then I guess we should give them access to a super computing facility then" It's supposed to be a problem you solve on your own and if you can't then you're just another in a long line of losers who aren't strong enough to get to the final table under their own power. If this is allowed to stand there's now going to be scores of people using solvers, or people standing next to them with solvers. At that point you can just pack up the tournament and go home.
@tuzalolol3676
Ай бұрын
@@howardtreesong4860 it apparently was allowed.
@jorgeherrera1074
Ай бұрын
"I feel like suing is embarrassing" Dumbest take ever. If you're both cheating, then it's shameful to sue. No honor among thieves. But if you are playing by the rules and your opponent is cheating the right thing for society is to sue.
@chuckjones7218
15 күн бұрын
"Using courts to solve your problems is unbecoming" - This is such a bad fucking take. Imagine giving up your right to due process because you think it's not manly
@bearatts
Ай бұрын
I hope that Keating is at his house, because that's like super chill if he has a cabin esq house that's not gaudy and cozy, while playing for nose bleed stakes where the swings are more valuable than his domain
@caral1257
Ай бұрын
They say it's not worth the lawyers. Easy if you're already wealthy. Imagine if they were against someone who got their seat by their home league members each contributing to the buy in. Yeah, people like that still play the main event. Try telling them $4 million isn't worth suing over. Cheating is cheating
@pheavey8768
21 күн бұрын
Regarding "it's a slippery slope in whom you would sue", legally, that's very straightforward - the defendants would be the player, the guy who helped him, the venue, and the WSOP. You don't have to sue only one defendant.
@TomVanPelt-j8o
Ай бұрын
The only issue I have about the idea of “no sunglasses” is that some players, me for example, have eyes that are extremely sensitive to bright lighting, as a result of botched eye surgery.I can’t go outside without shades because of the painful effects of, esp., overhead lighting. I always wear a cap when going out of doors but unfortunately it’s not enough. So I wear sunglasses whenever I go outside or when I have to deal with overhead lighting, like, e.g., the mall. This should be considered a legitimate medical need.
@NiteMoves2010
19 күн бұрын
I am so Old School that I do not want electronic devices at the table AT ALL! No phones, no leaving the table to call a friend. Even all these runs to coaches on the rail is absurd. One person on your hand: YOU! You play your cards, play the players seated. Study up on known players or those you are aware of before sitting down. Percentage cards etc. do not belong at the table in a tournament. Poker is a combination of skill, luck, and knowing how to play your position at the table.
@NickJones-n5y
Ай бұрын
After watching Alan in this video I know why teachers would ask me if I was thinking about poker hands from last night instead of school.
@Verlisify
9 күн бұрын
"Using courts to take money from people is unbecoming" WHAT??? THE DUDE CHEATED TO TAKE MONEY FROM OTHERS
@jamesjw0071
18 күн бұрын
a lawsuit should absolutely be filed if only to bring to light exactly what they were doing, subpoena this information and they have to explain in a court exactly what the algorithm did and does and is supposed to do.
@Vuurgeest
29 күн бұрын
I am a Magic: the Gathering tournament player and level 1 judge with only a casual interest in Poker. In our game we prohibit all use of digital devices unless to look up specific cards(which is obviously irrelevant to poker) and even then you need to do this in plain view of your opponent. That said, if such rules are not implemented (yet) in poker by your tournament organiser, there is little you can do about this for now except push for rules changes or use the same type of advantageous software.
@sebastienmessier5363
Ай бұрын
No sun glasses, no laptop or cell , no Hoddies , big Hat, get back classic suits
@CStrakes.2025.Goalie
Ай бұрын
Reminds me of 1981 Indy 500 where 2nd place sued because of rules violation by winner....also the Americas Cup back in '88/'89 I think where New Zealand sued San Diego Yacht Club after Dennis Connor built a catamaran to race against a monohull.
@getinvolvedliverpool
Ай бұрын
In the uk, if you leave the table during a live hand, your hand is dead. Just adopt that rule, an it stops people on the rail interfereing 🤷🏽♂️
@markusmolnar8701
Ай бұрын
Alan Keating got absolutely owned on Twitter 😂😂😂
@Whisper555
20 күн бұрын
Daniel Negreanu & Doug Polk in agreement is scary.
@goadamus
Ай бұрын
Bottom line ... in poker it's 1 player per hand, not 1 player+his rail+a solver running calcs... it's exactly what Negs said. A stain on the game. Hope in the future that the rail will be more heavily guarded and this kind of cheating/collusion can be prevented
@marklawrence3642
21 күн бұрын
imagine during the chess world championships a player would go through computer software after making his moves. Fine after an adjournment, back at home going through lines in the evening, but during the day no computers. I think it should be the same in wsop events
@vagabond197979
Ай бұрын
Just like in any high stakes venue, players have an incentive to push the boundaries of the rulebook. It's up to the tournament to have clear rules and enforce them appropriately.
@rodenmcmiles
Ай бұрын
For me, headphones or earphones are a necessity for softening (not cancelling) the noise amidst crowds of hundreds or thousands of people with loudspeaker announcements every 15 minutes. I see bigger delays from people holding up the game to order drinks and try to dig money out of their wallet while trying to chat up a waitress half their age. That said, at the end of the night when the crowd thins, they're not necessary. I think it makes the most sense to apply more restrictions as the tournament progresses. Cut down on the RTA from day 1, reduce face coverings on day 2s+, limit to 2 face coverings for day 3s+ and limit to masks only for ITM/FT.
@XtremiTeez
23 күн бұрын
Unless a tournament's rules soecifically allow it, min-raising utg before you see your cards in a tournament is not a straddle. When the action gets back to the button, and no one else has reraised, the round is over and the flop is dealt. Utg does not get the option to reraise.
@nicholi2789
Ай бұрын
There is no shot that the floor and Jack Effel weren’t aware of what’s going on. My assumption is they chose not to do anything about it because it’s been going on all summer at final tables. Krissy Foxen had her coach on the rail with a laptop during her main event run. It was clear on the stream. If they punished Nitmayo they’d have to punish all the other pros who did it all summer. Next year there will be a very clear rule.
@Peterlulu5
Ай бұрын
This. Basically Jack and the floor knows the pros more than amateurs. He was never going to punish the pros and have it backfire on him. Next year the rule will be written much more clear
@Mike-lp4iq
Ай бұрын
Pathetic coach on the floor to help ya unbelievable and 100 times worse when they got a laptop with problem solvers so what they see one doing then they gonna do it another thing wrong no respect for any of them at all that did this and polk used a program online to beat kid poker heads up I don't care what program it is you need one your weak and it's a crutch
@nicholi2789
Ай бұрын
@@Mike-lp4iq Use punctuation my guy. Your comment is very hard to read. That being said, using a solver doesn’t make you weak. It makes you studied. It’s just a different way of approaching the game than the traditional way.
@Mike-lp4iq
Ай бұрын
@nicholi2789 it's not that hard to read, and to me, it's garbage it is a weakness, and a crutch play the game without a solvers program, and help on the side is sad but then again this is what money does to people you wanna talk cheating pay attention to mike postle scandal polk Joey that did a thing on that Justin Kelly where he is and was and still is polk Joey support that room and him to me they are phonies all of them crupption at its finest and they are owned bye it
@Mike-lp4iq
Ай бұрын
@nicholi2789 lmao it is weakness crutch and pathetic polk win without out it playing kid poker heads up ? Even though we also believe he fed near the end, kid poker rant at the end online is garbage they support cuz they are owned all of them any site can cut you off like stars did to cates the best in the world he thinks it's bots it's more then that problem solvers is cheating thats my opinion that many will agree with just like it's your opinion it's not
@shawnburton1828
15 күн бұрын
Just remember, online poker is just like this except way worse. I know people that play in groups of 5 people and they all message hands to each other, they late register tournaments and a lot of the times they get 2 of them at the same table and they relay ever hand. They play 100nl cash tables and sometimes 3 of the 6 players are passing hand information to each other. I see it happen in the small town I live I can only imagine what it’s like in other cities or countries.
@TSM-908
Ай бұрын
This is 100% cheating, if I did the same in my chess matches I’d be tossed out. OK the rules in poker are grey, if this is not cheating then why is card counting classified as cheating? Card counting is just using your brain not a laptop. So in the higher stakes games like WSOP where the cash potential is even higher then what was done MUST be cheating. If it’s not then my next game of Blackjack I would used a mobile phone next to me to track the deck - I’m not card count I have an electronic real time advisor to help with advice. This guy with the laptop potential knew that he was cheating, he did not have to hide it because the Nevada Gaming Commission obviously wrote the rules many year ago and did not include or even understand the advantages of modern technology. Today I would not play ANY online game for cash as the program was written by someone else who had their own agenda.
@AlienationIsReal
Ай бұрын
People shouldn't have to rat out other players which can start fights and arguments. The floor should monitor this stuff. Think about "show one show all". The dealers should enforce this but THEY DONT. And if you call it out you have to deal w getting in a pissing match argument w someone which is why people say nothing.
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