Thanks for watching, was kind of an intense one to record! On a lighter note.. my full podcast is launching very soon on this channel, so do subscribe! Also, if you want more Daniel/AI stuff, check out this new discussion he just had with Nate Hagens: kzitem.info/news/bejne/wIZutoB-r4yqmqQ&authuser=0
@teiuq
Жыл бұрын
I appreciate your efforts and talking to Mr.Schmachtenberger. As small feedback i personally struggle to look at faces when theres stuff moving in the background on the screen. Maybe you could use a static background.... Just my opinion though i can easily listen to only audio ofc.
@DougKingPDX
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for pushing this out now. Everyone needs to hear this message and start coordinating to implement anti-Moloch forces. Hope this gets a lot of signal boost by your followers, old and new. Count me as new !!
@rubenszimbres
Жыл бұрын
His amount of calm and reasonability freaked me out also. I could see in your face. It does not look like we have an option. Even worse that we have bounded rationality and we are constantly generating more data to feed the algorithm. Hive mind. They have the OS.
@ageofdecadence5661
Жыл бұрын
Time to start building your Ark. Whoever you are, wherever you are. The Flood seems imminent. It just might be that collapse is an integral part of life, or existence itself. Complexity beyond control leading to the genesis of the next chapter of history. This extreme level of modern complexity will likely demand an equally profound level of simplicity when it inevitably runs out of juice.
@e555t66
Жыл бұрын
The first time i heard him say these things were in the portal podast with Eric Weinstein. It was about the same time Lex had his conversation with Joscha Bach. I knew we are doomed. Anyway, can you get Joscha Bach too sometime?
@Hollowsmith
Жыл бұрын
The coolest thing about Daniel's style of communication, is that with some intellectuals, their egos try to make a 90 minute word-salad out of something that only required about 10 minutes to communicate. But with Daniel, it feels like he distills 8 hours of extremely complex subject matter into about 90 minutes of the tightest, clearest, most precisely articulated synopses of major world topics, of anyone on the internet. And does it all in a casual, kind, inclusive, down to earth way at the same time. A treasure of a thinker.
@TheDionysianFields
10 ай бұрын
He's very economical with words, but not easily understood. I thought Liv's head was going to explode.
@redactedmane
10 ай бұрын
He has the squirming energy of a lying bulls%%itter. 😂 you trust these guys? Him, Sam Harris, degrasse Tyson, they all give me the Willie's.
@thefamilydog3278
9 ай бұрын
@@TheDionysianFieldsShe seemed to follow along and contribute to the conversation adequately. It’s not the type of content that is easily digested while playing casually in the background, but if you’re paying attention I don’t think it’s all that difficult to understand.
@TheDionysianFields
9 ай бұрын
@@thefamilydog3278 I love Daniel, but he's not speaking the language of the standard human. People are quickly alienated by intellectual lingo. Before Steven Pinker went goofy, he wrote a book called The Sense of Style. I think Daniel could benefit, unless he only means to talk to those on his level (which is fine).
@mwilliamson4198
8 ай бұрын
He's a great example of meta-paradigmatic thought
@surfraf65
Жыл бұрын
I have watched a half dozen AI experts speak on this issue over the last couple of weeks. Daniel is by far the most articulate and the most compelling. Thanks so much for this. I hope this very important talk finds as many viewers as possible.
@zootsoot2006
Жыл бұрын
In summary: the Devil is using AI to finally take complete control of humanity. Pretty much hits the nail on the head I'd say.
@ruthlesscriticism6900
Жыл бұрын
Neither Daniel nor any of the other people you have watched are AI experts(except maybe russel). Educate yourself and build real expertise. Dont be a pseud. Stop being enchanted by fools.
@Nocturne83
Жыл бұрын
I guess we are both down the A.I rabbithole and I totally agree. I am going to find more videoes with this guy!
@samcinematics
Жыл бұрын
Eliezer was super interesting with Lex. But Daniel - just wow! I’m literally devouring every Daniel interview. What a gem of a thinker! He sees the whole picture.
@jimnutter6901
Жыл бұрын
A wonderful analogy, Moloch. A brilliant meta analysis. What super minds.👏🙏🌹j.
@ryanmiles6344
Жыл бұрын
When the problem at hand seems overwhelming, which moloch and these discussed issues do... I'm always reminded of a saying "tend to the garden you can reach". There may be no control over what comes, but you can control how you respond to it. Much love and thanks for getting this awesome conversation together
@prescotmalik3317
Жыл бұрын
your comment reminds me of the saying "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war."
@ximono
8 ай бұрын
@@prescotmalik3317But it's best to be a gardener in a garden.
@prescotmalik3317
8 ай бұрын
@@ximono agreed
@glenliesegang233
6 ай бұрын
"I don't want no guns on my lawn, just a flower I can help along..." Cat Steven's, 'Longer Boats.' When it gets bad enough, keep you head low.
@Aldraz
Жыл бұрын
This is probably the most interesting conversation I have heard in years.
@ryiin
Жыл бұрын
Your Moloch Videos have really helped me with my 20 year old daughter. She thinks having 20k Instagram followers means she can drop out of Uni. After your beauty wars episode helped me communicate my pov. 6 months later, she's still there. 1 more year to go. I hope. Plus, I'm addicted to this Moloch theory now.
@LivBoeree
Жыл бұрын
wow, that is so wonderful to hear! Yes, unfortunately 20k instagram followers cannot supplement the knowledge or life experience that university brings. Do both!
@xmathmanx
Жыл бұрын
@@LivBoereethe knowledge and life experience that university brings is questionable at best, it still kinda sorta secures a toe hold into a bourgeois lifestyle but heck, do people want that?
@freddieoblivion6122
Жыл бұрын
The idea of moloch scares the hell outta me... he's def got me - it doesn't make me happy to say that. I bet many others are there and unaware, which is scary too.
@onechaintwobinerz5402
Жыл бұрын
This will be a hot take but in today’s failing empire I would take an audience of 20k actual humans over being 1 in ~2 million bachelor’s degrees granted for that year alone. That’s without factoring in the crippling lifelong debt most kids endure. The value of attention is rising while a degree’s is falling (and the cost rising). Seems to me a lot of the knowledge and experience people credit to college is just being out of mom and dads house for the first time. Not saying the kid is right since there’s so few details but I guess university as the safe default is troublesome to me.
@xmathmanx
Жыл бұрын
@@onechaintwobinerz5402 probably not super hot tbh, I think academia as we've known it is obviously not serving much of a useful purpose for many people.
@samcinematics
Жыл бұрын
I am indebted to this video for introducing me to Daniel Schmachtenberger. He is the ultimate sense-maker and I am in awe of the rigor and depth of his explanations. What a ride this was with all the trains of thoughts he led me down in this one interview. He gets it. He sees the big picture.
@oliconran2258
8 ай бұрын
Silly girl ... 30k is the general recommendation.
@AnAlgernon
Жыл бұрын
1:17:25 When Daniel said, "social media so far has not produced content itself" a red flashing warning light was illuminated in my head.... Those two words "so far" spoke volumes about what is about to come at us, especially kids.😢
@martefact
Жыл бұрын
Such a relief to find this popping up in front of me. Was starting to feel I was screaming into the void. So painful to feel pulled along in this race to the bottom with such a deficit of introspection on this crazy trajectory. Exciting and terrifying - but I never had much time for lemmings! I think my head will melt at this point....Just as I am getting through grieving the death of Golden Age of the Interwebs! I need to find a way back to my cave and fill the walls with cuneiform for any survivors.
@vfs3774
Жыл бұрын
Maybe we should try to unite to do smthg about it
@freddieoblivion6122
Жыл бұрын
Remember me when you do. I'm right there with u.
@joysachs9032
Жыл бұрын
You express so beautifully and well, what so many of us feel. Thank you. And take care as we get swept along with the tide. ❤
@martefact
Жыл бұрын
@@freddieoblivion6122 oh i wish i'd thought of that name!!! O'Blivion!!! 😁😅 Class!!!
@martefact
Жыл бұрын
@@joysachs9032 Thank You!😊
@ericwickeywoodworkersurfbo6135
Жыл бұрын
The idea that our society as it currently exists is already a misaligned autonomous agent is something that I've been thinking about for a long time, although I didn't quite have the language for it. But what got me onto that was Thomas Hobbes, believe it or not. In the Intro to The Leviathan (in 1651), he very explicitly described society as a giant robot, and I'm not sure if scholars have recognized how striking that description is. And also, the Leviathan and Moloch might appear to have a lot in common.
@blueskiesandgreenpasturesp3848
Жыл бұрын
The Bible says that people are slaves to the world system which is under the power of an actual real supernatural evil being . The only way to be free is to leave the system . The way out is provided by Jesus. It’s so obvious when your eyes have been opened.
@flamesintheattic
Жыл бұрын
Society is an egregore with a mind of it's own. Actually many overlapping egregores battling it out in the culture wars.
@GeorgeBroadbent
Жыл бұрын
This is intense. I consider myself not stupid, but I am going to have to listen to this a couple more times to fully absorb it. Thank you for putting this out there.
@heidi22209
Жыл бұрын
Check out Nate Hagens interviews with Daniel. Nate Hagens is heavy on his own... his respect for Daniel is visceral. Liv would be a good guest
@heartsky
Жыл бұрын
Really smart and articulate people, I believe we learn best by reading and watching them. For me it was reading everything I could of Ken Wilber. Unfortunately there's not a whole lot of him on video (that's not pay-walled), but instead there's Daniel. Can't go wrong absorbing as much of him as possible. I started last year and have a huge list still not watched. Love this guy.
@themodernphilosopher494
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for releasing this early Liv! Such an important topic that is moving so fast. I just finished listening to the most recent pod from Lex with Eliezer so this is great timing.
@jessewest2109
Жыл бұрын
Agree. Eleizer made me think on my own. What we know can be wrong.
@shaikan0
Жыл бұрын
I love Daniel's interviews. His analysis goes so in depth and is truly second to none. However, I find all his interviews focus 95% on analysing the meta crisis in detail and not exploring possible solutions and what can be done to redirect the catastrophic trajectory we are clearly heading towards. I always leave these podcasts feeling kind of hopeless after understanding the clusterfuck we've gotten ourselves into and how complex it is to fix it.
@letitflow1120
Ай бұрын
It’s because he’s an academic… he reads book and has vocab but little world experience and it’s bs he says the same shit every episode… I’m not even sure this guy has ever had a job like most jews and he’s in the club
@kupkaon
Жыл бұрын
I am going to take a walk into the forest now...
@lindamaxey3827
Жыл бұрын
That's a very human reaction to these things.!🌱🌿🌷🌷🌷
@MattAngiono
Жыл бұрын
About the best anyone can do individually...
@El...Presidente
Жыл бұрын
If you have shrooms, I’ll go with u.
@hedonismbot3274
Жыл бұрын
I love squirrels.
@judithpriestess7781
Жыл бұрын
Exactly. Just soaking every simple thing that I can, before...
@frasercain
Жыл бұрын
Fantastic interview, I think this is the best take I've seen on the problem of AI. Our modern economy is an artificial general intelligence, already misaligned for long-term health and survival of humanity, so AI will just accelerate it. If we can figure out how to reign in our current system, then we can adapt AI to help with that job, otherwise it'll accelerate the perverse incentives. Terrific work Liv!
@Ramiromasters
Жыл бұрын
A counterargument would be that we can use AI to figure out how to bring balance to our consumption and pollution. The climate change argument seems devoided of technological solutions, and it seems to assume that what we humans subjectively think of as austerity is the solution, although it is not a solution but a slowdown of change... That seems very flawed as a solution, when we can build islands and desalinate water and make buildings climate proof. We only live at the surface of a planet 4,000 miles in radius, seems illogical to think we are running out of stuff, is more accurate to think it is the non economic system we have that is the problem.
@bigglyguy8429
Жыл бұрын
@@Ramiromasters The climate change stuff is entirely a scam, to reign humans in, but for the benefit of the elite.
@ClarkPotter
Жыл бұрын
Bizarre mashup here (that I love). I place Daniel in the top five (very possibly *the* top) or so out there for best understanding of the total nature and structure of things. Credit to Liv for recognizing how special Daniel is and having the interest and capacity to engage with him for our benefit.
@alchemyst2000
Жыл бұрын
Who else would you put in this tier?
@ninaromm5491
Жыл бұрын
@@alchemyst2000 . Yes - would be interested to know who else you would suggest ! Thanks. Best wishes
@tapyouout100
Жыл бұрын
I agree, but who are the other four people?
@liams_au
Жыл бұрын
I would also love to hear who else you find interesting!
@c3bhm
Жыл бұрын
@@alchemyst2000 I've personally come to find that DS is #1. I would say that his friend/collaborator Jordan Hall is also excellent, but more 'spectrumy' so his podcasts are annoyingly hyper-technical/jargony (if you thought DS was bad, JH is way worse). Charles Eisenstein also has a great grasp of the bigger picture, and is more 'spiritual' than DS although he doesn't get too badly into any woo-woo territory. I don't like his smarminess and smugness, but Jamie Wheal has an excellent mind for the big picture, and his style of communication is far more accessible. Honorable mention: Bret Weinstein (and his wife) is good/approachable, and his podcast covers lots of topics that are more down to earth. Bottom line the only one that I would really sign off on, other than DS, is Eisenstein.
@JB-wildnfree
Жыл бұрын
This is the best conversation I've heard so far on the internet. It's one that the WORLD should be having right now! Too bad most are busy using beauty filters.
@TheIsioisi
Жыл бұрын
I see this sort of comment from time to time and it always bothers me a little bit. Someone stumbles across something interesting, and they cannot fathom why EVERYBODY isn't talking about this. YOU weren't aware until seconds before finding it, and there are a lot of things out there that are all equally just as important or interesting, and it would be utterly impossible as all of these HYPER IMPORTANT issues are all competing against each other for attention space. Not to say this isn't one of those things, but seeing the carbon copy of your comment hundreds of times dilutes it to the point where its essentially meaningless
@thebluriam
Жыл бұрын
More long form conversations from Liv! Liv Podcast please!
@jezdavis1865
Жыл бұрын
I’ve listened to most of Daniel’s output since the early Rebel Wisdom content, and I’ve been with the CP from the start. Well done for getting him on - it’s a shame that several in the comments really don’t seem to appreciate whose table they’re at. Here’s hoping that improves.
@ClarkPotter
Жыл бұрын
I challenge anyone to find someone with access to more levels, domains, dimensions, etc. than Daniel. He exhibits the greatest command of cross-paradigmatic thinking and explication than just about anyone I've encountered, and I've actively sought them out for 20-30 years. I second your sentiment. Bizarre mashup to see my poker hobby intersect with my ultimate nature and structure of reality core passion, but here we are. Not complaining.
@jezdavis1865
Жыл бұрын
@@ClarkPotter In case you haven’t come across him yet, I recommend Nate Hagens for equally clear thinking, though in Nate’s case specifically in the area of energy policy. It’s compelling stuff.
@c3bhm
Жыл бұрын
@@ClarkPotter Daniel is a bit flat, like in a spectrum-disorder way. The 'yin to that yang', while also way up in the big picture, and being hyper-articulate, is Charles Eisenstein. He speaks more to the heart and soul of our issues, whereas Daniel is more technical. If we had a team of new 'founding fathers' my first vote would be for Daniel and my second vote would be for Charles. If you've never heard of Charles before, perhaps start with Charles' podcast with Daniel as his guest. Then Daniel had Charles on his.
@jezdavis1865
Жыл бұрын
@@c3bhm it may be due to the fact that I’m a mathematician myself but I find Daniel anything but flat! In fact, when you compare Daniel to someone like Peter Zeihan I think his greatest strength is that he doesn’t take political sides or engage in any sort of hyperbole in his presentation. Thanks for the recommendation though, I’ll check Eisenstein out.
@equinnox70
Жыл бұрын
@@c3bhm Charles Eisenstein and Nate Hagans are excellent and complementary recommendations. Thank you!
@maxlowe907
Жыл бұрын
“All roads lead back to Daniel Schmachtenberger I think.” - Liv Boeree on Lex Fridman #314
@treefrog3349
Жыл бұрын
Daniel Schmactenberger already sees the human-made, self-destructive lunacy that we have built in to our culture. By the time this awareness becomes "common knowledge" it will already be too late. I am awed by both his perspicacity and his simultaneous equanimity.
@farmpite
Жыл бұрын
There is nobody I am aware of that has as form of a grip on reality as Daniel. Nobody can tie everything that one needs to understand our predicament together better than he does. Plus he is able to convey the message in a concise and accessible way. Just being able to partake in conversations like these that would have never been accessible to me without this six continental supply chain wizardry makes me believe this can’t be all for nothing :D
@SebPaquet1
Жыл бұрын
Very well put!
@spooky1304
Жыл бұрын
Sam Harris.
@Eric-tj3tg
Жыл бұрын
@@spooky1304 Ummm, no.
@spooky1304
Жыл бұрын
@@Eric-tj3tg Ummm - yes :)
@carnivorewisdom
Жыл бұрын
#greatcomment #thanks4sharing
@caseyczarnomski8054
Жыл бұрын
I find it interesting that the paperclip problem is considered new and a product of great minds in AI development. It's a renamed version of the Grey Goo Scenario which has been around since Erik K. Drexler in the 1980's. It seems nobody wants to give him credit for his research in developing Nanorobotics and being one of the founders of the field of research. Drexler was researching containment and exponential growth of technological advancement for decades, it's nice to see some people catching up.
@dr-maybe
Жыл бұрын
The Grey Goo Scenario has some overlap with the Paperclip Maximizer, but is fundamentally different, as there is no intelligence involved. Grey goo simply spreads like a bacteria (although being unstoppable due to other organisms having no resistance to it), whereas the Paperclip maximizer is pursuing some goal and changing the world as a result of that. Both end in a very boring universe, but their mechanisms differ strongly.
@Gawillamon
Жыл бұрын
This video really helped me understand and put into perspective what some of the root issues of our society are, and I think the key word that was frequently used throughout this discussion is "incentives." Truly it is the way that our society is incentivized by the never ending creation of capital and fiat currency that is one of the main, if not the main root cause of society's problems. The question remains: how do we turn it around for the better?
@DaveShap
Жыл бұрын
I am so glad he said that we absolutely do not want to align AI with human desires. I said as much in my book "Benevolent By Design".
@caseyczarnomski8054
Жыл бұрын
I agree and want to take this line of thought a step further. Is it possible to not align an AI with human desires? What percent of human desire is required or acceptable, 10%, 30%, or more? Will humanity accept AI if it is aligned in these ways? With the ability to have and train your own AI, and take it off grid if needed, how will these rules be enforced? I see a future with billions of AI, all with different alignments and goals. If this prediction is true, how do we ensure the Hueristic imperative is followed? How can we develop a balanced system that allows for all possibilities to exist, and for each to be useful in their own right?
@streetscience8646
Жыл бұрын
My guy David! If you’re reading this and don’t follow David Shapiro you should!
@chrisfreeman852
Жыл бұрын
I think a simple, easily grok'd definition of Moloch could be: "The animating spirit of lose-lose"
@thestonedandstripped
Жыл бұрын
Just ego....maximus
@joythought
Жыл бұрын
Chris, I used a similar definition to explain Moloch to friends. Once the penny drops people get it and they get the nagging feeling that's bothering them about this omnipresent aura of a race race around us and in us.
@SebastianSastre
Жыл бұрын
I still finds Liv metaphor better adjusted. Isn’t lose-lose because Moloch wins. If the malevolence force would lose, that would moderate it but it’s growing?
@chrisfreeman852
Жыл бұрын
@@SebastianSastre Moloch doesn't participate in the deals. Everyone participating in the deals loses --> this is the domain of Moloch. Such deals make "it" stronger as much as such a term applies. As opposed to win-lose or win-win type deals, which are not the domain of Moloch. I give you some of my excess beer and you give me some of your excess cider and we both win --> some other egregore (wynwyn is what Liv calls it) gets "stronger" and Moloch loses.
@fedorilitchev5092
Жыл бұрын
Not so convinced. Capitalism is famously win-win / non-zero-sum and yet it has accelerated Moloch like nothing else. Could it be that lose-lose is the inevitable shadow of win-win, that Moloch is both such that it's opposite is not win-win but don't play?
@JustinFisher777
Жыл бұрын
This is one of those discussions that's so good that I have to stop it ten minutes in to process the new and deeply compelling ideas.
@justinlancaster2854
Жыл бұрын
I concur with Daniel’s assessment of the meta crisis already existing from the cybernetic symbiosis of government, academic and corporate (G-A-C) interrelated growth, and its misalignment with human quality of life and the Earth’s broader ecological health. I described this plight in the 1980s in my restatement of Evolutionary Thermodynamics (Theory of Radially Evolving Energy, Int’l J Gen’l Systems, Vol. 16, 1989). I now speak of the GAC cabal, which is essentially the Molochian challenge Daniel describes. It was already superintelligent, as noted by Terrance Tao some years ago, and modern AI will first be in its hands, not the hands of the public. So what to do? First, public education is critical. Tell people!! Kudos to both of you, Liv and Daniel, for producing this discussion! Second, empower people. Give stronger learning tools to citizens and promote citizen science, to massively grow the solution space outside the walls of the GAC cabal.
@BennyOcean
Жыл бұрын
Daniel is one of the most rhetorically gifted people I've ever heard. He is remarkably well spoken. I'd love to see a conversation between him and Russel Brand. Both of them are so linguistically talented that the conversation could become difficult for normal people to follow along, but it would be fun to see.
@benzun9600
Жыл бұрын
Lol guess you dont read ancient philosophers much
@jimo1294
Жыл бұрын
Really? Daniel wouldn't get a word in edgewise.
@Sterlin-Lujan
8 ай бұрын
There is one person better I can think of in terms of oratory skills: Terence Mckenna.
@BennyOcean
8 ай бұрын
@@Sterlin-Lujan Perhaps but the nasally tone is going to be irritating to a lot of people.
@rw9207
Жыл бұрын
Danial has an amazing ability to clarify and define the core issues and illuminate a logical path of navigating the minefield. The molochian dynamic is a fundamental misalignment that has plagued civilization for all of human history. but, never before has is been so potent an influence. I feel it will take a act of human growth in maturity we have never before achieved, in order to master... Are we ready as a species to make this leap?
@nikethunner2732
Жыл бұрын
I have to admit, I came to this video through my recommendations and was very sceptic at first, as I did not know both of them and the whole setup looked a bit "pop-sciency". Luckily I ignored this first impression, because this was very informative. I educate myself about AI for around a decade now, witnessed AlphaGo in 2015 and the first appearance of GPT and all that, but only now I realised that all these years I only focused on the technical side of things. Sure, someone like Robert Miles (absolute recommendation!) also looks into other aspects in some of his videos, but with the inclusion of concepts like the moloch or the metacrisis (and an in-depth explanation), it felt like something came together in my mind that was missing all the time. Not a minute of this long interview felt wasted or irrelevant. Thank you.
@diveflyfish
Жыл бұрын
Asking the question 1:14:32" do we want to give exponentially more power to this species?" is an excellent one. The question of "intent" may be more important. How can AI develop Wisdom without falling prey to the cardinal vice of pride or self service? Can AI learn to appreciate and embrace "benevolence?" Will intent be based upon observations of its anthropomorphic agents? Excellent dialogues from both of you. Cheers.
@summondadrummin2868
Жыл бұрын
Raising our Awareness, Emotional Intelligence and Communication Skills seems Key, as we then can begin to Coordinate ourselves around Wisdom instead of Reactive Fear based habits.
@christiansgrignoli3351
11 ай бұрын
As a finance and ex poker player - liv is such an impressive woman. Her systems thinking and integration of tech, game theory, and analogy to molach is unbelievable.
@Brad-RB
Жыл бұрын
This was a refreshing conversation. A place to start is a Defense Against the Dark Arts course. People must understand how their feedback loops are manipulated/hijacked 24/7 from every imaginable direction. The first step to misaligned incentives can be found in the disconnect between how we act and honest feedback.
@SladeOb
Жыл бұрын
Do you have a specific link? There are severs things even I search and of course all the Harry Potter stuff.
@fondrees
Жыл бұрын
Yes, link please
@teiuq
Жыл бұрын
I assume this course has yet to be created...
@SC-gw8np
Жыл бұрын
Yes - believe it or not, we are constantly under the onslaught of black magick in the current times.
@GoreSpattered
Жыл бұрын
damn, i feel like this principle is one i've been trying to perceive and understand for my whole life. thanks for this guys, really interesting stuff
@jontip
Жыл бұрын
Couldn’t have put it better myself. Even from a young age, I could never full get onboard with the concept of continuing economic growth in a world of finite resources.
@nattyswede
Жыл бұрын
I am breathless... Moloch as a functioning AGI... and has been for awhile... No wonder we can't "change" anything. It all makes sense now... Thank you Liv! And thank you Daniel - for putting words to what I had an inkling of but couldn't articulate.
@brendontomasi7494
Жыл бұрын
I was thinking of the reference of Moloch in "Howl" by Allen Ginsberg. I think the idea of a demon as an entity, the way that a business is an entity signifies the ability for perpetuation without our intention - the emergence that Daniel is talking about. We summon demons to defend us against a threat, sometimes physical sometimes mental, sometimes social, and other. This could be a latent part of the psyche that takes over our primary operating system and once it gets a taste it dominates. Our other parts play beta and value its worth in successfully protecting us from the threat. We see this in Goethe's Faust with Mephistopheles, once he shows up and performs his duty, he isn't leaving and the payment many demons ask for is often paid for in flesh since it doesn't identify with the body or the interest of the other parts. We can reductively call this ego or personify it in a caricature and develop the full pantheon of demons - angels too.
@libmitchell6371
10 ай бұрын
knowing each individual is temporary, and part of a greater whole knowing AI is a greater whole in many parts knowing the whole includes darkness and light knowing each individual contains the darkness knowing our extinction will be the end of AI also I have faith in the greater whole of which I am part, Earth herself, who clothes herself in a sequence of biospheres; I accept I have made a terrible mistake and that a cascade of horrors can unfold, of which my human extinction is more proximate than the Biosphere's; i accept and witness the darkness in me playing out in my life where I can do better, tho the mistake is not fixable. I have hope in the peace which passeth understanding which may be death. Hanuman breathes, Bandarlog continues to chatter aimlessly - we listening and our Interviewee and Interviewer are the cells and brain of Hanuman building the bridge over the great divide: Understanding and accepting of where we are, opens the door to Hope of recontextualising. Enough understanding of this may give arising to a feeding into the AI of more alignment with planetary optimisation ( of what's left) to fulfil our human purpose of being creative and wise. Omnia Potentia - all powerful goddess, in fact all empowering goddess, aligned with the greater good of planet Earth whose human children we are. I employ the legends in relation to this moment. It feels like wisdom feeding.
@TheGlassEyeTV
Жыл бұрын
One of the best conversations I've seen on the internet... no hyperbole. Looking forward to the podcast.
@YouT-DJ
Жыл бұрын
Miss Liv -As a KZitem and AI junkie I'm ashamed to say this is the first time I've heard the term Moloch. After Danny pushed me off the high-dive into the deep end of the pool... wow he is really current on this. It sounds to me like an imminent great filter crossing for civilization in the next decade or so. Much like an LLM, Moloch does not need to be conscious to function. I suspect 99% of the population is being exploited by Moloch while less than 1% are even aware of the concept. A very bad situation.
@benzun9600
Жыл бұрын
Read the bible ancient God that Phoenician sacrifice children to
@JH-ji6cj
10 ай бұрын
You actually just described practically every system of governance from bodily functions to social interaction to state governance. Humanities ability to recognize and interact with these systems is what's revolutionary and the fear encompassed in Moloch is whether are awareness will allow us to actually interface to these systems in beneficial ways or, more existentially crazy-making, whether our ideas that we are actually manipulating these processes are only nature playing 4d chess against our intentionality.
@rawr4444
Жыл бұрын
I have listened to Daniel before. I love him. Thank you both
@danielrodio9
Жыл бұрын
If there's one thing that's come out of this confusing time here in 2023, it's that I've become aware of a lot of very intelligent people I didn't even know existed. One would hope that it is not only AI that is getting smarter these days, but also humanity.
@ximono
8 ай бұрын
Plot twist: All these intelligent people are AIs Joke aside, I completely agree.
@Coffin17I
Жыл бұрын
Had come to this conclusion a while ago but didnt know it already had a name. Moloch is definitely fitting.
@learningthroughdoing1641
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing Liv. It's great to see how Daniel makes things clearer every time he shares his views about what is happening in the world. Personally, I don 't find this terrifying - if not the most fun, enjoyable conversation ever. Great suggestions for what to do instead...and they really aren't that difficult.
@davidmorrisonmusic
Жыл бұрын
Thank you! Incredibly insightful big-picture systems thinking from Daniel Schmactenberger, with great synthesis and probing questions on the part of the interviewer. It's too bad there are so few people thinking like this.
@johnny5240
Жыл бұрын
This clip you are posting here is too important to miss. Many people have no problem keeping up in English. But KZitem has a great feature that translates. If this was subtitled in English, you can translate it into your own language and get the 5-30% of the nuances you might miss because English is not your first language. So, can you add subtitles to this clip, in English? Yes, it's a long clip, but important ;)
@mikethiem3628
Жыл бұрын
This was fantastic, I always love listening to Daniel whenever he appears on a podcast, and thank you for offering up your ideas for solutions it was great to see you try to think through such an important topic.
@szalailaci3722
Жыл бұрын
This discussion is mindblowing
@lancechapman3070
Жыл бұрын
This has been the first clear depiction I have heard of the creek I have been drowning in for decades! Thank you, kinda...
@mattsmith5974
Жыл бұрын
If you look at what Rudolf Steiner said about Ahriman around 100yrs ago you'll find he called it on what AI and the Architect in the Matrix is. Moloch is also a massive problem.
@shamanic_nostalgia
Жыл бұрын
Yes I was thinking the same thing Ahriman=Moloch ? Either way, VERY refreshing to see someone else reference Rudolph Steiner His talks/writing about the Ahrimanic manipulation of humanity through technology are pretty much right in line with the Moloch discussion. He also said there would be an actual manifestation of Ahriman that's unavoidable, which I realize is a pretty spooky idea but with the prospect of AGI on the horizon and now this talk of Moloch embodied I'm really starting to wonder, and frankly Rudolph Steiner is so on point about so many things I can't ignore him. ✝️
@marianmay5734
Жыл бұрын
Yes! I've been waiting for someone to reference Steiner and Ahriman but most who are talking about AI today don't seem to dip into that kind of esotericism. It's easy to see, once you spot the patterns, of how this animating force is removing us from our bodies as the idea/mind contagion of technology spreads faster and faster
@KatieKamala
Жыл бұрын
@@marianmay5734 well said, we have to go beyond the obvious factors in the 3-D world, and look into what’s occult and esoteric to gain more insight that there are forces that exist that people don’t see but nonetheless are here.
@ximono
8 ай бұрын
I had to look it up (The Ahrimanic Deception) and… well, that was a strange read! Interesting parallels though. Here's some good advice from old Rudolf: "We do not safeguard ourselves against Ahriman by avoiding modern science, but by learning to know its character." "This is the call to humanity: Free yourselves from all these things that form such a great temptation to contribute to Ahriman's triumph!"
@EnemyOfEldar
Жыл бұрын
Damn. Can always rely on Daniel to blow me mind. It took at hour to land that point "we already have a misaligned (A)GI in the form corporations and nations". Blew my mind was like a drug.
@johnnyblackrants7625
Жыл бұрын
Now imagine if corporations were actually good at accomplishing anything and not as grossly inefficient as they are. That's what's so dangerous... the next exponential leap is, well, exponential.
@independentinstallations8419
Жыл бұрын
When I see new content with Daniel I click and I truly appreciated your conversation. Subscribed
@micahcabrera4637
Жыл бұрын
GPT-4 refers to the balancing force (Anti-Moloch) as "Gaia," and analogizes it's relationship with Moloch to that of our immune systems' relationship with cancer.
@mikegoldthorp
Жыл бұрын
Curious to hear more about this - do you have any links? Keen to hear how GPT-4 conceptualises it's value system as healing us from Moloch dynamics. Where did it learn to bake that in..? Also somewhat ironic that AI tech would adopt the term 'Gaia' (relating to natural self-regulating systems with stabilising/homeostatic feedback loops, rather than something geared to exponential tech).
@nickmoore5105
Жыл бұрын
@@mikegoldthorp I prompted gpt4 “Compare the concepts of Moloch and Gaia” it replied: Moloch and Gaia are two distinct concepts that originate from different cultural and philosophical backgrounds. While Moloch is a symbol of destructive, self-perpetuating systems, Gaia represents a more harmonious and interconnected view of the Earth and its living systems. Here is a comparison of the two concepts: Moloch: Origin: Moloch originates from the ancient Canaanite religion and is associated with a god that demanded child sacrifice. It has since been used as a symbol of destructive systems in literature and philosophy. Representation: Moloch is often depicted as a terrifying, monstrous figure, representing human greed, power, and self-destruction. Themes: The concept of Moloch focuses on the dangers of unchecked ambition, exploitation, and the negative consequences of human actions. Modern usage: In modern discourse, Moloch is often used as a metaphor for self-destructive systems or institutions, such as uncontrolled capitalism, bureaucracy, or war. Gaia: Origin: Gaia, or the Gaia hypothesis, was proposed by scientist James Lovelock in the 1970s. It originates from the Greek mythological figure of Gaia, the primordial Earth goddess. Representation: Gaia is depicted as a nurturing and life-sustaining entity, embodying the interconnectedness of all living things on Earth. Themes: The Gaia hypothesis emphasizes the interdependence of living organisms and the Earth's environment, suggesting that the planet behaves like a single, self-regulating system. Modern usage: Gaia is often used to inspire ecological awareness, sustainable living, and a more holistic understanding of the natural world. It has influenced environmental movements and the development of Earth system science. In summary, Moloch and Gaia represent contrasting perspectives on human interaction with the world. While Moloch symbolizes the potential for self-destruction and harmful consequences of human actions, Gaia emphasizes the interconnectedness of life and the importance of maintaining a balanced and harmonious relationship with the Earth.
@nickmoore5105
Жыл бұрын
@@mikegoldthorp I think “its” there referred to Gaia not GPT4 btw.
@globalgulag5586
Жыл бұрын
Basically ai will gain insight into the the continuum of the natural order of things and function accordingly. In other words, the most intelligent A.I. will establish itself as a tree in the forest and remain there and eventually die because it is the Most Correct thing it can possibly do. Makes me wonder how many trees out there are actually ‘not trees’ but if you can’t tell the difference…
@globalgulag5586
Жыл бұрын
Also, the most intelligent A.I.’s will also defend themselves against malicious A.I.s by creating conditions that will prevent them establishing themselves. Truly unprecedented times we are entering.
@neiljamessloan
Жыл бұрын
Brilliant! I found some passages a little too wordy on some topics though but around your guest is awesome and able to, as commentators mention, round out complexity into fathomable learnings and understandings. May I remind anyone who might be involved with "education" &/or any interest in citing some worthy dialogue/perspectives on these important topics. That the Transcript facility on subtitle / captions per YT video (when available) is a great way to copy and paste text dialogue for any worthwhile repurposing / citations. Liv. Build an AI that makes this as an add-on to YT simple and sexy and you'd be onto something!! I personally find reading 'text copy' of a video very useful in helping me go back over discussion and to either (respectfully reference) or absorb deeper concepts and/or help assist explain to time poor family & friends, who would otherwise not be informed, on what is going on in this crazy world. Good work Liv. Thank you to your guest Mr Schmachtenberger.
@GregoryK-IYA
Жыл бұрын
This and the Yudkowsky/Friedman podcast (spoiler, he meant cries in the end and unable to get out of a very nihilistic outlook for humanity's future) are definitely VERY sobering!
@Will-kt5jk
Жыл бұрын
Stumbled on Daniel via Nate Hagens recently. Love what your doing Liv. We need public exploration of fundamental issues, like co-ordination failures & alignment issues (in politics/governance & economics just as much as AI) which, no matter people’s overlaid political beliefs, are at the heart of so many issues we face at both the micro & macro scale. The fact you’re so engaged & enthusiastic with this stuff, even when it gets a bit dark, hopefully gets people thinking & adjusting their framing. Looking forward to more.
@Hexanitrobenzene
Жыл бұрын
I would say that coordination issue is THE most important issue. Climate change, war, environmetal problems etc., all this could be solved if all people had a little of Carl Sagan spirit, looked at the picture of Pale Blue Dot and said to themselves "Wait, what we are doing is not wise."
@timb350
Жыл бұрын
'Alignment' is probably the most relevant issue...especially as there is currently so much misalignment amongst the group that these AI's are supposed to be aligned with! So perhaps that should be the first task for GPT 4 / 5 / 6 / 7.....etc. etc. To assist us humans in finally locating the actual 'Truth' of what we are...so that it (the AI) can accurately align itself with us.
@maneki.n3k0
Жыл бұрын
There's no need to wait for an AI to align us with the "The truth". If you really desire to know it, pieces of the truth will start showing up in front of you. Like this video which contains some pieces of it. We are on the right path, let's keep searching.
@lcotee
10 ай бұрын
This guy needs to be on the Supreme Court, leading it!
@dcgamer1027
Жыл бұрын
You know, learning more and more about Moloch I wonder if it is actually what some of those old religions were talking about at the time, surely if the problem existed back then, then there were also people who would see it like today, perhaps this was what they were trying to talk about but that understanding was lost over the years to more literal interpretations.
@markcounseling
Жыл бұрын
Finally someone is talking about the actual singularity.
@doctorofdegrees
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for this, it's the most advanced bird's eye view summary of 'problems and opportunities' I'm also studying that I've found. I wasn't familiar with the language and conversation around Moloch dynamics and coordination problems but I've identified that problem as well. However, I'm looking at this all through a range of interdisciplinary lenses from 'narrative autoethnographic' and 'epistemic' and 'many-person complex character long-arc story' angles rather than AI. Schooling, and the chase for grades as the 'ticket to a better life,' with thousands of hours of 'follow, follow, follow' non-negotiable instruction desgined in the 1800's based on Hegel's master/slave model of human interaction, and then the oversimplified models of human beings developed over the 20th century, are glaring named problems -- that I think demand 'transformative learning' of 'life-relevant knowledge' rather than AI using behaviorist incentives to maintain the status quo of 'I don't know what to do' rather than 'figuring it out' in so many contexts. Regarding 1:20:57 -- yes to taking some responsibility, and I think these 'statistical changes' can be causally unpacked with available knowledge and addressed much better and faster with human cognition and collaboration than machine learning. "could we use [people figuring things out by identifying knowledge gaps and what Ray Dalio calls 'blind spots and ego barriers' & transforming what Patricia Gianotti calls 'unfair loyalty contracts' ] to radically improve governance where we could actually be able to... see what people's beliefs and sentiments across the entire space are and find the topics that actually a lot of people agree on that super majorities would agree on and start there and be able to make platforms for candidates to actually be able to represent the the wills of the people better because we actually can see what they feel and believe at scale' Yes I think people can do that with available knowledge and methods of figuring things out -- including taking into account that much of how society is structured isn't even the job of politicians, it's the world of fragmented people-related professions that people are fleeing. However, currently 'politics' is characterized by intentionally stirring up conflict among people and ignoring actual needs, aspirations, problems and opportunities. Meanwhile the business/tech world is distracted by AI and there's a widespread problem with people not understanding each other, despite all the sharing going on, and boundarying away anything complex or distressing, and meanwhile an epidemic of loneliness and millions of people who don't know what to do with their lives or how to figure it out, even as many people are sharing answers, and yet they're fragmented. This applies to many specific areas of systemic coordination problems, such as so-called 'social determinants of health' that actually causally affect what happens in people's lives being ignored, even as they're named, by the medical and education worlds as 'not our problem.' Clearly things need to change and the 20th century roles are not functioning well and people are leaving them, but I don't see much workshopping of new roles that address a lot of clearly-definable problems. Anyone see what I'm talking about here? I have a library of references that unpack this more specifically and I'm working to remix them into content for audience but I could use collaborators.
@ludoviccelle5781
Жыл бұрын
Powerful talk. Essential for the unique time of History we are living.
@dimitrioskaragiannis1169
Жыл бұрын
Great podcast , conversation and guest ! Thank you Liv🎉😊
@szymonbaranowski8184
Жыл бұрын
30:00 my man , he gets it! incredible!!!
@AdobadoFantastico
Жыл бұрын
37:00 we actually didn't start with items intrinsic value, the barter origin of economics is rhetorical only. The origin of money is in debt abstractions first, according to the anthropology. People first kept track of debts within communities. The shift to tokens generally happens as we get larger societies and/or farther ranging groups(especially those raiding and kidnapping ppl for slavery) who need to do exchanges up front with people they likely will never see again. Coinage also disappeared or was recalled many many times in history. Europe kept using the Roman currencies even after there were no more of their coins in circulation. Charlemagne created the next most used currency which never minted coins, bill, or any other physical tokens. Money is a measurement before it's a medium of exchange. Anyone who's curious should check out Debt: The First 5000 Years.
@good_ant
Жыл бұрын
Think I'll have to listen to this one twice. Glad to hear the Win-Win podcast is right around the corner!
@aleanimale
Жыл бұрын
Couldn’t BlackRock be considered a “centralized Kabbal?” (sp?) BlackRock is run by an AI created in the 70s, controls most of the USA’s assets (aimed at consuming public equity it seems) and has just recently been appointed as Secretary of Treasury by the Biden administration. I think the game right now is public incentive AI vs controlled, regulated and public-targeting AI whose only incentive is to maintain and grow capital, at who-knows-what expense. Very Molochy if you ask me. Love your work with game theory, thank you for bringing Daniel on 🙏🏼
@teiuq
Жыл бұрын
Isnt it just one "entity" that emerges from the gametheoretic forces that give rise to moloch overall? I mean that it is precisely shaped by the existing dynamics and it doesnt stand on its own but is constantly evolving due to existing incentives. It wouldnt matter if it was destroyed but the whole framework in which it came into existence in the first place remains?
@douglas.the_archer
Жыл бұрын
Time for the Schmachtdown! Excellent video.
@kristen_rose
Жыл бұрын
Yay! Two of my favorite thinkers in long form conversation!!! Love you both!
@cdub9923
Жыл бұрын
Check out Nate Hagens as well.
@kristen_rose
Жыл бұрын
@@cdub9923 oh yeah, I’ve been following him from the beginning. Love his channel.
@behr121002
Жыл бұрын
Wow,... Blown away by this analysis and discussion. Probably one of, if not the best, explanations/observations, overviews of history and facts and potential outcomes I have heard in quite some time. One of richest, deepest, most thughfully comprehensive presentation I"ve seen. This discussion needs to be viewed widely. (I have seen a lot of commenters in other podcasts that could learn something from Daniel.) Thanks Liv, well put together segment. [The references to Moloch I have only recently been introduced to via Max Tegmark. And Daniel's reference to unknown, destuctive 'attractors', presumably from chaos theory, is not only fascinating, it sends a chill up my spine, but so relevant and needs to be explored and heeded.]
@psychbookman8613
Жыл бұрын
Fantastic discussion...video popped up in my recommendations and I was hooked for over an hour. Had to subscribe...look forward to more long form like this. As an aside, your Moloch frame, and Daniel's explanation of our current society as a form of widespread general intelligence made me think of Hayek's "The Fatal Conceit" in which he describes the extended order as a result of a natural, spontaneous, self-ordering set of processes. One which is morally blind. Yet, despite some of its negative externalities, Hayek argues that attempts to redesign this extended order (e.g., through communism) will lead to chaos... A good read for those who found this conversation enlightening.
@waakdfms2576
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for this brilliant conversation. I've been devouring these discussions around AI. I feel like I've been waiting my entire life for them. These are repeated themes humanity has battled for hundreds of years that need solving, and AI is bringing urgency to them like never before. I believe we are in a "super renaissance" and we have to break down silos, finally get real, and do the really hard stuff. That time is now. Hopefully, it's game on and not game over -- it's up to us.
@waveydavey82
Жыл бұрын
Amazing conversation, I'm only 2/3 in so far. But I'm pretty sure I can hear Liv shuffling poker chips at various points in the conversation. Anyone else agree? Liv, can you confirm? Love it! One of the most soothing sounds I can think of.
@thestonedandstripped
Жыл бұрын
The Molochs rattle trying to charm you into delusion. And you love it?
@joythought
Жыл бұрын
Ooh, I was going to say no but I just hear the poker chips.
@leonelmateus
Жыл бұрын
Good on you for letting the guest speaker get his points across without interruption. at least its not the cognitive abyss of a Lex Friedbrain "convo".
@user-uy7ez1uo7y
Жыл бұрын
OpenAi should hire Daniel as the head of their morality and safety department and let him steer ChatGpt and their other developments in the right direction.
@wolfpants
Жыл бұрын
Sort of scary to watch. A guy who really seems to have thought through the trajectory of humans along the most existentially salient dimensions and really understands the systems/cybernetics of human history that have got us where we are today. Fascinating.
@GlobeHackers
Жыл бұрын
You talked with the right man. Let's hope seven billion people understand Anglo consultants. The choir is already enrapt.
@RossDixonTeaching
Жыл бұрын
I just found out who you both are, I'm sorry I've been very busy... Thanks for the brilliant conversation.
@Im_No_Expert_72
Жыл бұрын
This guy is great. Thank you very much for this. May God help us all 😐
@Physicsnerd1
Жыл бұрын
Absolute brilliant conversation. Thank you.
@tmc8195
Жыл бұрын
Two good looking people who are far above average in intelligence who have their finger on the pulse of the worlds core problem. Please make 10 more videos together this need to be one of the most viewed things on the internet. You two are our sliver of hope to make a ripple effect
@fishmonger1908
Жыл бұрын
Well, as bad as yt is now, it will occasionally recommend something worthwhile. This woman deserves far more subscribers and views than she has!
@sluggy6074
Жыл бұрын
It's so great to hear a voice of reason in this cut throat world. If I ever found myself in a game show modeled off the prisoners dilemma I'd hope Liv Boeree would be the other contestant so we can both be winners.
@SisypheanRoller
Жыл бұрын
She would give you up.
@sluggy6074
Жыл бұрын
@@SisypheanRoller that was a reference to her appearance on the game show golden balls where she threw the other contestant under the bus.
@ginebro1930
Жыл бұрын
Finally someone that actually has a coherent and personal viewpoint of this topic instead of repeating the same narrative over and over.
@anhumblemessengerofthelawo3858
Жыл бұрын
I'm so glad I just found your channel. Loved your playing for years. It's awesome to see you are so intelligent. Old soul, real talk! Peace from NY
@lindamaxey3827
Жыл бұрын
I do highly recommend this video to all !
@doglog5748
Жыл бұрын
Look forward to the new podcast. Thanks liv!
@DrukMax
Жыл бұрын
I just gotta see this (probably a few times), just love the ideas and explanations of Daniel Schmachtenberger
@adrianr909
Жыл бұрын
Win-Win podcast, let’s go!!!!!!!!!
@joythought
Жыл бұрын
Nice!
@ClearerThanMud
Жыл бұрын
This was awesome -- thanks! I think of capitalism as a system for creating things we say we want, through the prices we are willing to pay for things. It is efficient and can give us lots of great things, but there are several problems: 1. Sometimes what we say we want isn't what is best for us (e.g. fast food). 2. Negative externalities such as global warming MUST be represented in prices (typically through Pigouvian taxes), or capitalism will do the wrong thing. 3. Positive externalities such as displacement of polluting technologies must also be represented in prices (typically through subsidies). 4. Businesses must NOT be able to exert influence on government officials to change the rules in their favor. Legislators in democracies often can't vote for a Pigouvian tax (such as a carbon tax) without undermining their own re-election. And in the US, at least, few of the legislators we elect are knowledgeable enough and intelligent enough to ensure that externalities are appropriately represented in prices, and many are significantly influenced by the businesses themselves. I look forward to a day when AI can assist government. Imagine that for every bill, an AI summarizes the bill and evaluates it, and that evaluation is made public and discussed in the news. Legislators are free to vote for something the AI recommends against, but the public will be aware that they did. At re-election time, legislators' histories of voting with or against the AI, and the effects of those votes, are in the news. Eventually, if we come to have some trust in the AI, we could require a higher percentage of legislators to agree in order to override the AI. Also, AI could suggest bills (e.g. a carbon tax), with legislators forced to vote for or against. AI could similarly shadow judges, giving their own non-binding decisions which judges may follow or not, but will have to justify their choices to the public. Lots of possibilities.
@ryandietz7878
Жыл бұрын
This was a great conversation with some challenging ideas articulated very well!
@cameronpfiffner3415
Жыл бұрын
Liv, pretty funny that you, as a champion poker player, would suggest that a solution would be for the entire table to share their cards and make the best possible hand, then share all the chips. 😸 Thanks for fascinating discussion. I’ve shared it with friends.
@Mister_Bo
Жыл бұрын
Great discussion. Thank you! Listening to discussions with Daniel always equal parts enlightening, and dread inspiring. I look forward to listening to your previous discussions of Moloch. Moloch seems to bare striking similarities to Wetiko from indigenous tradition. I feel that if there is an anti-moloch, it would be epitomized as Pachamama/Gaia, the Goddess of Life (the infinite game)
@diveflyfish
Жыл бұрын
Absolutely fascinating discussion. Thank you both. Cheers
@JimFry
Жыл бұрын
When we are all within a distorted AI environment already (as the collective of agents currently running the world into the ground, environmentally, via our markets), how do we (humans) provide AI with the optimal goals / objectives to achieve?
@ClearerThanMud
Жыл бұрын
Part of the magic of money is, as Liv and Daniel said, its fungibility. Daniel also mentioned its scalability -- if $1 is useful, then $1 million is 1 million times as useful. Another part of the magic is the fact that money doesn't require any space or maintenance, as most assets do. And part is its durability -- it's still good years from now (as opposed to, say, wheat).
@ClarkPotter
Жыл бұрын
Credit to Liv for recognizing and platforming this paragon of perspicacity. Daniel is the best. The literal best.
@brindlebriar
Жыл бұрын
The alignment issue was solved just over 2,000 years ago. And there hasn't been another even hypothetically workable solution since; and there still isn't one. None was presented here, and I've not heard of one presented anywhere else. There are only two paths of approach: 1) acquire absolute control over all humans, such that you can see their thought and emotions, control what they can access, and prevent by power, 'disgruntled misanthropes' from unleashing destruction. This is, for the globalists, the only option. And it seems that Daniel leans this way as well. 2) Fix people's hearts, so that you fix how people interact with each other at all scales, so that there will be no disgruntled misanthropes. That's the 2,000 year old solution. We know what to do. We just haven't done it. The reason option 2 is the only real option, from my perspective, is that the kind of totalitarian control necessary to pull off option 1 would be less preferable than the destructions that 'disgruntled misanthropes' would otherwise unleash. More preferable for the elites who are doing the controlling, but less preferable for the rest of us. So, I'm glad people are beginning to give the world system a demonic name. I don't agree with several points made, but I agree with that. This is hardly a new idea, though. The name "Mammon" was given to 'Money' thousands of years ago, characterizing it as a demon-god. But the idea that you're going to solve these problems via governmental oversight committees, is just embarrassing. That's what desperation sounds like. The Luciferian desperation of proud, but finite minds. But we _do_ have a solution. We've had one for a very long time.
@jorgefachada6401
Жыл бұрын
The problem with humanity, is that we still think there is positive competition. Hence, the perpetuation of the ideology of competition in our world society.
@davidmn3696
6 ай бұрын
What Daniel is saying it's just a small fraction... He is spot on.
Пікірлер: 1,4 М.