Thank you David, if you and Smokey say it is so, then fact it is.
@PredaFran
3 жыл бұрын
well tbh Smokey did say some things that were wrong but were accepted as right. But vizard is THE engine buy. cant question a man that has spent more time on a dyno cell than some of us have spent driving
@DodgyBrothersEngineering
3 жыл бұрын
@@PredaFran true even the greats can get it wrong, but when you have two of them agreeing, it can't be too far from right...
@doomman700
3 жыл бұрын
If it made more power custom pistons would come that way, and they don’t.
@shelbyavant5081
3 жыл бұрын
Vizard=best in the business. Uncle Tony keepin it real! 💪🏻🤘🏻🚘
@thegreatkimber3777
3 жыл бұрын
So this question is finally answered! Thank you! So Uncle Tony was right and Steve D. somewhat too. UTG said reversing the pistons increases the engine performance slightly, Steve D. said that it does not make a difference. If it is a 5 to 10 hp performance increase on a 300 hp engine Steve D. is right, you won´t feel the difference. But an increase is an increase and in the end all the small increases sum up.
@wheelieking71
3 жыл бұрын
The laws of physics are what they are, a guy can not argue, he would be a fool. This is entirely a matter of leverage and geometry. Nothing more, nothing less. And, as Tony has stated from the beginning: it can bring an advantage (a mechanical advantage). He never put a value on it. This is where Tony earns the respect. His only claim is "it can provide an advantage". So he does it (reverses the pistons). Tony is a (the?) master of doing the most with the least! He accomplishes this with experience. I can only laugh when I see guys trolling UT! Like that brian farkwit! Too funny! I'm no expert. But, I have been around long enough, and seen enough (my Dad has deep roots, even a stint with Sox&Martin) to know: Uncle Tony is the real deal! I also have tons of respect for Dulcich! Steve knows his shit! Friedburger on the other hand? Not so much. He is no dummy. Quite the historian. Definite motor-head. But, he is too damn corporate for me! Sure, he knows what to do when the budget is bankrolled by somebody else. But, Tony is the real deal!
@troymecey
3 жыл бұрын
I agree on all points except DF being Corporate. It's just that he has figured out how to play the game. He does what he does to keep his hobbies going, lol. I'm not a Mopar guy ,but I really enjoy Uncle Tony's show. Mopar is close enough to a Chevrolet, that I can relate to it, unlike Ford. My Uncle is a major Mopar guy and I used to help him spec parts. Dulcich is one of my favorites also.
@crazycoffee
3 жыл бұрын
@@troymecey Freiburger has been corpaerate for a long time. Why do you think he hardly pays for parts? Hes lost a good bit of my respect. Hes blocked me on instagram for asking "If flipping the offset makes piston slap is louder but it creates less friction overall. Wouldnt that technically make the engine slide smoother making it snappier?" Didnt mention power at all. Instant block. If my comment is still there its under a picture of a big piston.
@WesternReloader
3 жыл бұрын
A gain is a gain. Over the life of the engine, the gain could shorten parts life, or increase parts life, but even motor oils fight for gains in the fractional realm.
@wheelieking71
3 жыл бұрын
A lot of people would probably be very surprised to learn about the different oils actually used in different max effort racing arenas.
@BBBILLY86
3 жыл бұрын
Agree 100%. This was also a time when average motors made 200 HP and 500 HP was still impressive. A few 7 HP gains hear and there separated the boys from the men. In a World of 395 HP pick up motors and 1,000 HP boosted motors, most people would consider 7 HP gain nothing.
@ZEPRATGERNODT
3 жыл бұрын
UTG getting the nod from a legend…
@nadronnocojr
3 жыл бұрын
Love these videos , and that y’all talk to each other , have a debate , discuss it and educate , wonderful experience
@howabouthetruth2157
3 жыл бұрын
And there we have it: If Mr. Vizard, Smokey Yunick, and engineers at Chrysler and F1 racing found proof that there are power gains to be had with reversing the pistons, then we can take it to the bank. THANK YOU DAVID!!! SUBSCRIBED!!! Also, I distinctly remember Bud Moore stating on camera that back in the day, Smokey's engines often had around 30 more hp than the rest of the competition. Not always......but quite often.
@V8Lenny
3 жыл бұрын
Smokey won nothing in modern days , I think that tells a lot.
@hotrodray6802
3 жыл бұрын
V8Lenny.... THAT indicates that the others were catching on and catching up....not that Smokey was digressing.
@V8Lenny
3 жыл бұрын
@@hotrodray6802 racing got professional , Smokey was not , he could only cheat. His best result after -63 win was 4th , with car built by others , they told him not to mess with it because they knew he knew nothing about racecars.
@shootermcgavin2819
Жыл бұрын
@@V8Lenny and Smoky was still smarter than you..
@V8Lenny
Жыл бұрын
@@shootermcgavin2819 dont know, at least he had bigger mouth.
@cam3002
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for your insight. Related topic, what are your thoughts on longer connecting rods, all else being equal, meaning that the wrist pin is moved up into the piston?
@pookysdad4884
3 жыл бұрын
In his video on rods, he highly recommends going from the stock 5.7 inch SBC rod, to a 6.0 inch rod from Scat. Also, in Smokey Yunick's book "Power Secrets", he said "put the longest damn rods you can fit" into an engine.
@craigbenz4835
2 жыл бұрын
@@pookysdad4884 : That's the great thing about the Mopar LA, it's already built in with the 9.6" deck height and 6.123" rods.
@GapSauceYoutube
3 жыл бұрын
I always thought Steve Dulcich was underrated, glad I know for sure now 👍
@superkillr
3 жыл бұрын
I read from some other people he's quite smart and talented. IN fact he should be in charge of that whole operation over there. Frieburger is a hack.
@strattuner
Жыл бұрын
I'VE READ everything he has offered since he started,he's beyond smart,he just can't drive worth a damn
@mikedeal8659
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks David. When I first heard of this I thought, I wonder what David Vizard thinks? Now we know.
@needmetal3221
3 жыл бұрын
One dislike from a utg troll
@bobmopar2587
3 жыл бұрын
There are way too many qualifiers that DV uses to say there are gains in reversing what are essentially OE pistons on the rods. What gains were are, if any are so small they are well within readable error on the dyno. There are much better ways to gain horsepower (like a thinner ring pack, a quality engine oil, better cylinder honing techniques etc.) than to even consider playing with pin offset. In my 4 decades of engine building I have never seen any quality piston come with pin offset. I had a customer in the early 2000’s who wanted his pins offset and he couldn’t find a single piston manufacturer who would do it. It’s just not worth the effort and that’s why Dulcich is correct and UT is not. I guess if you are building garbage you can swap the pistons. If you are using non OE pistons like anyone should be this is a non issue.
@UnityMotorSportsGarage
3 жыл бұрын
Great Video...
@carportshenanigans5918
3 жыл бұрын
...as per usual!
@Hitman-ds1ei
3 жыл бұрын
It was in smokey,s book a long long long time ago so I don't see what all the who hah is other than some people are not as well read as they may like to believe, including your own books
@themountainraven
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you DV for all the work, knowledge and dedication and willingness to share and help people around the world create and climb to better ranks. I appreciate the honesty and the no bs, proven result, put your money where your mouth is approach in teaching and showing us in the nethers some of the great examples you have for hp recipes. Been a long time fan and have a couple of your books. It helped tremendously back then (17-18 years ago) and continues to help to this day.
@RyTrapp0
2 жыл бұрын
This begs a couple questions though - why do seemingly ALL factory examples run the offset "the inferior way"(for power output anyway, for lack of a better term)? And, why are all aftermarket high performance pistons zero offset, why does no one offer an off the shelf option for offset pins if it's advantageous from a performance perspective? It really makes me wonder when there's no evidence of NASCAR Cup cars or Pro Stocks running offsets(it goes without saying that some could be and they just keep it under wraps; but a lot of 'secrets' from both have come out over the past half century or so, seems VERY unlikely). If we assume that it's going to offer a performance advantage, then there must be other factors discouraging the use of offset pins, when the two leading NA motorsports classes(Cup cars & Pro Stock where every fraction of a gain adds up) aren't going after this. Of course, now the Engine Masters test is out and they saw no difference in the Moopur that they ran, which isn't too surprising I don't think even if other testing has shown positive results(variables, variables, variables). I thought they did a great job too, really broke it down into the details, got a number of outside opinions, and Steve Brule knows what he's doing with repeatable dyno testing too. If there's gains to be had here, then I have to imagine that it's going to differ wildly based on piston material, probably rod ratio, piston & chamber design, etc., there's just so many factors that I would have to imagine influences the results of this from one engine architecture to another that I can't see a general "it 100% works" statement being applicable to just any general piston engine. And, I'm still caught up on why the factory doesn't run them the opposite way, especially when even Chrysler's own performance parts documents suggested this in the past, obviously they were aware of potential differences. All of that said, this REALLY makes me want to build an engine. Get a piston manufacturer to make a couple sets of otherwise identical pistons with the pin offset to either side by, say, 1mm and 2mm. Conventional 4032 forgings to minimize any potential influence from dimensional expansion. That would be quite interesting - who wants to fund this project for me? LOL
@lancecooper4646
3 жыл бұрын
Does it increase peak horsepower only or does it give an increase throughout the rev range ?? I'm trying to imagine the dyno graph for hp/torque.....would it be a good idea with a stroker kit installation ?
@marvingvx1
3 жыл бұрын
More torque everywhere if it is going to work. Yes it is a good idea for a stroker. ICON pistons will make custom pistons with the offset in the required direction
@modelnutty6503
2 жыл бұрын
@@marvingvx1 exactly as my pea brain interprets it, when an engine likes it, it'll deliver more torque through a wider rpm range and more torque overall.. to spool up quicker with. gains to torque being a higher percentage than the peak horsepower gain percentage, if keeping everything else basically equal. timing+dwell, plugs, jets, would be appropriate/acceptable if the test engine put to a dyno both ways.
@manitoublack
3 жыл бұрын
The only reason I come here is for the fancy graphics :D
@jamest.5001
3 жыл бұрын
I can deal with start up piston slap, for 7hp! I wonder how crazy you can get with offset??
@marvingvx1
3 жыл бұрын
When testing modifications on the flat head ford offsets as much as 1/4 were supposedly tried, Don't know the results though.
@richardbrickner1688
3 жыл бұрын
My questions: Besides possible H.P./Torque gains, would/could the piston reverse give faster throttle response?.. and I am thinking that a faster throttle response may not be picked up at all on Dyno runs?.. Especially launching off the line from a dead stop.. the Dyno would not even see that.
@approachingtarget.4503
3 жыл бұрын
That was me David. I have the video Tony spoke of. Ive seen the power differences on many projects. Obviously only on builds that had the clearance. From Briggs and Stratton all the way up to major diesel tractor pulling outfits. When i was in Mechanical engineering school at VA Tech. We where able to see the difference from inside the combustion chamber with high speed cameras. It has become even more evident in power plants of today with after market power adders. Especially bottle babies and turbo applications. But also just as important on a jr dragster. Thanks for the input!
@marvingvx1
3 жыл бұрын
Tom, can we do a MotorTec live interview. I would love to see your results and make them really public. Please respond to my seminar web site at davidvizardperformanceseminars.com DV
@johnwilburn
3 жыл бұрын
Were you in the Formula car program at VT? What years? I was there in the mid-late 90s.
@bcbloc02
3 жыл бұрын
@@johnwilburn I worked on the speed school car some from 98-02 😎
@johnwilburn
3 жыл бұрын
@@bcbloc02 What “speed school car”?
@approachingtarget.4503
3 жыл бұрын
@@johnwilburn i was there in late 90s. When mike vic was a frshman.
@finnroen2334
3 жыл бұрын
Many, many years ago I had a friend who had a 17 ft boat with a Volvo B20 engine in it. When the engine was rebuilt i suggested that he turned the pistons around and he did. The boat was then faster, but engine noise was not acceptable because of piston slap, so he turned the piston around the right way again. He than lost 2 or 3 knots from the max speed.
@PeggyParrow
8 ай бұрын
Also something to think about,! The leverage differance may cause the engine to rev quicker, which may be hard to measure ?
@Torquemonster440
3 жыл бұрын
Well, if there ever was an "industry authority " on this topic, I would have to agree.. Mr. Vizard would be "the man". Initially I sided with Dulcich , but it appears Uncle Tony was not off the mark with this theory. Thank you for your input Mr. Vizard. .... I would like to pose a question though, wouldn't it behoove aftermarket piston manufacturers to offset the pin location on all "performance" pistons ? If there's free power to be had with an offset pin,wouldn't they be the first to advertise this fact, and henceforth produce them accordingly?
@marvingvx1
3 жыл бұрын
MOST CAN IF YOU ASK.
@Torquemonster440
3 жыл бұрын
@@marvingvx1 Wow.. good to know. Thank you.
@Jay-fb2lv
7 ай бұрын
What do you mean no dyno results? Engine masters did a whole episode testing it. Season 6 episode 24.
@rolandtamaccio3285
3 жыл бұрын
Cal DeBruin, definitely Sealed Power / Speed Pro . Also I believe as early as 1965, plus or minus, part of the Mopar Clinics plus ponnies procedures .
@hotrodray6802
3 жыл бұрын
As DV eluded to.... Anything that makes even 1 hp more is wanted in racing. My Dad, 1962: "Big things are important, but its the little things that win races."
@modelnutty6503
2 жыл бұрын
'ol UTG same way, do ALL the little things because they really do all add up.
@MrBlackbutang
Жыл бұрын
Steve is smartest of the bunch on motor trend . He shouldn’t be hanging out with bubba gumps twins .
@markpierce366
3 жыл бұрын
I recently saw a yt video from Yamaha Motor co about where they offset the bore centerline from the crank center on their moped motors resulting a power increase. They said the increase was because of a reduction in frictional losses from less rod angularity during the power stroke.
@marvingvx1
3 жыл бұрын
I did some testing like this many years back (about 1988-89 and tried to sell Pontiac on the idea for NASCAR MOTORS BUT THEY TURNED THE OFFER TO TEST DOWN SO I ONLY EXPLORED THE PISTON PIN OFFSET. THAT SAID THERE IS A BETTER MOVE YET THAT CAN B E DONE WITH THE BORES BUT THAT IS GOING TO COSTG WHOEVER WANTS TO KNOW MONEY AS IT HAS ALREADY COST ME MUCH TO TEST.
@DaveMcLain
3 жыл бұрын
@@marvingvx1 Ford flathead V8 engines were all done that way and I think that the offset is about .185. They had offset pins in the pistons too.
@shakdidagalimal
3 жыл бұрын
@@marvingvx1 Obviously tilting the bore through centerline bottom away from the crankshaft centerline a degree or two - same type of advantage.
@modelnutty6503
2 жыл бұрын
Yamaha has been making very impressive stuff for many decades. anything from musical instruments to jet ski's and then some!
@juggernautxtr
Жыл бұрын
tony read it in a book, so he started doing it. everyone else saying bs might want to go read the book. this thing is now an 8 to 2 against engine masters........looks like engine masters might want to go do some reinvesting their mind sets.
@portedhead7164
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you David. I was wondering about this myself, on specifically, A 2.3 Lima.
@travismoore7849
Жыл бұрын
Can you offset your crank shaft and cylinders for longer strokes?
@muskyelondragon
3 жыл бұрын
You the man David. You the man.
@timsharpe3498
Жыл бұрын
It’s been a while since I watched those videos but I seem to remember that Dulcich said it wasn’t worth all the time and trouble to swap all the pistons around for a few horsepower. Either way I’m all for a cheap extra 7 horsepower.
@oops1952
Жыл бұрын
I don't think I'd do a tear down for 1 or 2% hp gain.....if you're assembling the engine any ways, why not!!! Zero investment in both time and money for a small gain. Perfect!!!
@timsharpe3498
Жыл бұрын
@@oops1952 I used to race pure stockers and I did every little trick to squeeze a little extra out of my engine. I don’t know if that would have been something that would pass a post race tear down. I never got busted for cheating but I never had them completely disassemble my engine so I suppose it would have been okay. I remember them pulling one valve cover and measuring the valve lift and checking the carb and distributor. I always felt honored when some cheater paid to see inside my stock engine that just outran their illegal engine.
@oops1952
Жыл бұрын
@@timsharpe3498 I never made it to the track with my 340. I've heard stock eliminator didn't allow it. My engine ran very strong for being slightly over stock. Even got 20 mpg (imp.) with 3.91 gears. Turning the pistons around was only part of it ....but it couldn't have hurt
@troymecey
3 жыл бұрын
I subscribe to both Motortrend and UTG and I think that Uncle Tony's statement was taken out of context.
@pete540Z
3 жыл бұрын
True, and then someone said that Tony was saying it was a 25hp gain, which he did not say.
@Torquemonster440
3 жыл бұрын
@@pete540Z i believe in an early UTG video on the topic he threw out 20 hp.. or something like that ?? Not 100% sure, I just seem to recall that somehow.
@marvingvx1
3 жыл бұрын
Yes I believe there was a little misunderstanding involved.DV
@dfabeagle718
3 жыл бұрын
@@marvingvx1 Both ways - Freiburger kind of blew it out of proportion in the video. I think Steve Dulcich covered his bases when he said "A lot of aftermarket forged pistons don't have an offset". None of the junk I have used in the past 20 years was reversible anyway due to chamber shape and dish, so I'm guessing it's kind of a moot point. I'll take the extra cubes from a stroker and not worry about cast pistons having any HP left on the table. :) Piston slap is part of the game when you add clearance for forged pistons, it's why we "warm up" hot rod motors before we stomp on them, right? Thanks for posting this!
@anthonyp151
3 жыл бұрын
Is this in response to the bloke that said Smokey and the Mopar book guy doesn't know what he was talking about and referred to people's books that I enjoy reading as automotive journalists?, I hope they weren't taking shots at David as well. This coming from the magazine guys?. If it's who I'm thinking of, I like their magazine articles, but I'll listen to the guys that have written books first and actually done some real engine work like on Nascar's and BTCC. When I did my engine reconditioning apprenticeship, my teachers had connections to mechanics that worked on cars from the ATCC from the 1970's and 80's, now the V8 Supercars and they used to swap the pistons around like Uncle Tony said.
@bb400dart2
Жыл бұрын
I instal my BB400 Chrysler pistons and I never had piston slap and also knurled .007 and ran a 390 cast iron rings, made close to 600 hp with a 175 shot of nitrous
@MrRasZee
5 ай бұрын
TDC will change measured at the top of the piston so valve timing will change and also spark timing
@joejones4296
3 жыл бұрын
Can you get rid of the creepy music please?
@markcarter78
3 жыл бұрын
I agree totally, when david speaks i listen.
@dondotterer24
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for all the great videos. The guy's I know that ran super stock and stock especially on the oldsmobile and Pontiac reversed the pistons. Of course they were looking for everything. They never claimed much of a horsepower gain though. I'm guessing 5-10 on those engines.
@modelnutty6503
2 жыл бұрын
its not just the horsepower, what needs the real looking at is the torque output range+curve, is there more torque overall to spin up quicker with?
@craigbenz4835
2 жыл бұрын
Stock eliminator is where small gains matter, and if someone will find them they will. I got the backwards piston trick from Dan Dovrak, an A/SA max wedge racer.
@b.snoodleman5864
3 жыл бұрын
Hi David, do you think you will ever do an episode or two on 4 valve per cylinder heads. Thanks big fan
@marvingvx1
3 жыл бұрын
YESSSSSS!
@b.snoodleman5864
3 жыл бұрын
@@marvingvx1 Yesssssss, thank you.
@juiced71
3 жыл бұрын
Can I have your brain lol
@bovineknievel410
3 жыл бұрын
Damned zombies
@juiced71
3 жыл бұрын
@@bovineknievel410 lol
@elmerfudpucker3204
3 жыл бұрын
UTG challenged those guys to prove what he is saying, and they have yet to accept it. I know from personal experience, that on stock offset pistons you gain power by reversing them, every time. I have ran claimer classes for decades, and just like Mr. Vizard has said many times, you may not see a difference on the dyno, but the seat of your pants can tell the difference, and your time slips say it works. If that's not the case, why does every piston manufacturer move the pin location for their performance pistons? IT WORKS
@kevinlaird6991
Жыл бұрын
used this idea on a 5hp b&s by offsetting the bore, effectively changing pin location, rod angle to crank. it was a screamer until the cylinder portion of the block separated from the crankcase by a big crack almost all the way around. oil went everywhere but it stayed running until we shut it down. seemed to me to been a power increase. so there's that.
@hotrodray6802
3 жыл бұрын
THE JOE SHERMAN always insisted that flipping the pistons on a SBF is good for 15/15. Ive often wondered if the cam specs needed to change because of this, or if the flip only enhanced a particuar cam and gave more power. We did it on Y blocks back about 1962.
@ragtopdeluxezl1
3 жыл бұрын
I follow both camps and get great info from both ... Tony did say 5-10 HP gain but not seat of the pants gains. As a practical matter and Tony is for the budget builder... what might be the over all longevity of reversing the pistons. I imagine Smokey's engines were torn down each week.
@MoparMan-ff8fb
3 жыл бұрын
I'm always open to new and unexplored mods to increase horse power torque ect . Since Tony says can increase gains at least give it a chance aka a test to once and for all show the results to settle this debate. with all this being said from watching the video that there is only small gains in certain applications = motors.
@TL-angzarr
3 жыл бұрын
It will take more than 1 test to settle the debate. Any good results should be repeatable. To be a fact the repeatability needs to be proven.
@davidleonard8369
3 жыл бұрын
@@TL-angzarr really? David Vizard just told you the results of multiple tests.
@lancecooper4646
3 жыл бұрын
@@davidleonard8369 I'd like to see dyno runs, maybe Richard Holdener will get involved ??
@rustywater3219
3 жыл бұрын
So do you think that is a percentage gain or discrete number gain?
@UnityMotorSportsGarage
3 жыл бұрын
I think it comes down to the engine architecture and the variables that come with that! Even like what David said.. piston to wall clearance would effect it. Hope this helps Andy
@finnroen2334
3 жыл бұрын
Can you say something about what you did to increase torque, horsepower and rpm range with 10%?
@TheProchargedmopar
3 жыл бұрын
👍💪
@PhaseConverterampV
3 жыл бұрын
Along with the discussion of offset piston pin geometry, it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on the desaxe offset crank ( from centreline) configuration. It’s been around since the Henry Ford days, but some use it today for torque gains.
@trev0rbr
3 жыл бұрын
Id like to see that too, but I think it may be essentially the same thing
@robertryan2228
3 жыл бұрын
Great to hear confirmation of the results of this sort of experimentation David, we used to bore Mini 850 blocks offset to the thrust side with good results in the late 80's here in NZ.Even though the principal is oposite it seemed to work for us in the day. Love your videos and look forward to coming to a seminar some day when travel is easier. Thanks again.
@dennissherman8776
3 жыл бұрын
What a wealth of information. Best subscription I've ever done. Thank you !
@tonyschiffiler4816
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the great info., seems like less rock , or side loading on piston will increase a little power to me , keeping the rings square in the bore .
@hotrodray6802
3 жыл бұрын
Tight hypereutectic pistons and full circle rings !! 👍 P
@jamest.5001
3 жыл бұрын
FF, that video if you and Uncle Tony, was like having Abe Lincoln, JFK, and Bill Clinton in the same room! A bunch of great guys!
@jamest.5001
3 жыл бұрын
@@Olds_Pwr yeah Clinton was a bit sketchy haha, obviously Me visard would been Abe!
@jamest.5001
3 жыл бұрын
@@Olds_Pwr most of what I know of Abe, has nothing to do with him as president, it's of him as a kid, and young man, coming from very little, and becoming president, he was a I need smart caring hard working man, log splitter, attorney , heck maybe we could throw Regan in there! What I was getting at, is those guys were no lesser than some of the guys elected president! Mr Vizard really gets down to the smallest details, gets very technical, and studies and explains it well, I really dig that! I'd do the same if given the chance! ( Study the smallest detail if a engine, measure, study, test, I can get into that!)
@autodoctordr
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for your input on something I had always heard and believe to be true, as well as indicative of more potential gains that may be related. I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but on the issue of piston pin offset, has anyone studied it enough to see how much offset can be beneficial beyond reversing stock pistons, and how much can be gained by offsetting the whole bore by moving the crank over
@mcwbadass
3 жыл бұрын
Vizard you're the man!! Love your books
@unclesquirrel6951
3 жыл бұрын
This guy seems like a strait shooter , i like how he gave the tip of the hat to both Steve and Dave and Tony . Cool and the fact Steve worked with David makes it cooler
@montebradshaw128
3 жыл бұрын
Thnx David! Great video..... And I'm now in awe even more of you finding out you knew Smokey!!!
@vincentenk4449
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for your time sir, always a pleasure to watch your videos.
@arturos.3973
3 жыл бұрын
Like
@shootermcgavin2819
2 жыл бұрын
This channel and UTG are gold 🏁
@paulguptill1143
2 жыл бұрын
Heard a similar story back in the day, about SCCA Formula Ford 1600cc Kent engines. Pistons were reversed and showed a gain of 2 to 2 1/2 hp on a normal 105 hp engine. The tech inspectors got wind of this and would tear the first three finishers down for inspections. After disqualifying these and finding that the other racers had left, and couldn't be inspected, they nullified the race and sent out a warning that everyone could be inspected going forward.
@AndyGeesGarage
3 жыл бұрын
I’d like to know more in regards to the relationship between pin offset (measured) bore and rod length and if that would increase the effectiveness of reversing the pistons. Would a longer rod to bore ratio with a greater offset pin respond better than an engine with a shorter rod and less offset or vice versa?
@craigbenz4835
2 жыл бұрын
Good question. I only know the piston offset from a Mopar/long rod side.
@BubbaAyers1969
3 жыл бұрын
Thx for sharing the info
@pookysdad4884
3 жыл бұрын
If you simply spin the piston (and the rod it's attached to 180 degrees, won't the chamfered side of the rod's big end be facing away from the crank cheek?
@rustywater3219
3 жыл бұрын
Is there a ratio for best air flow (valve size) per cubic inch? If so, why don't companies design for it? Thinking of Richard holdeners video on the zz302 vs boss 302. Just seems like GM crutched a lackluster head with a huge cam compared to the boss. And then heard you say you'd rather make cid with bore instead of stroke because you can squeeze in more valve.
@jimjungle1397
3 жыл бұрын
I have a book, published in 1970 by Chrysler, with engine building info developed by Dick Landy for Mopar in the late 1960's.Using it as one of my first references, I have reversed factory type Mopar pistons. I believe the piston pins in the 426 Hemi are not offset and some, "racing" pistons are not either. There is another theory I've heard, that when the pistons are very short, some offset pre-load might help power, by preventing extreme piston rock of the very short pistons. Chrysler for only a few years, tried to improve fuel economy, by not offsetting the piston pins, but offsetting the piston pin bore in the connecting rods of certain model small block V-8's. I wonder if that would even work. Chrysler quit the practice after a few years and went back to regular rods and offset piston pins. I would think, rather changing the piston pre-load, an effort like that might just result in the connecting rods acting like they were slightly different in length. I tried a bicycle with the pedal crank arms offset by quite a bit and it made little to no difference.
@floridaroadracerguy
3 жыл бұрын
Why wouldn't the factory just incorporate the reverse offset position if it gains power? Noise? Wear?
@ronosga5072
2 жыл бұрын
Tom Mews mentioned that you only need to switch one bank. Since there is not left or right, so does the offset on both banks go to the outside of the engine? The other question I have not found an answer for is did the stock cam grinds compensate for the offset going both directions?
@moparnut6286
3 жыл бұрын
Very diplomatically said but in the end for a used engine that's running fine and making good hp and tq is it worth the time to go taking it apart for such a small gain when there are other modifications than can give you more hp/tq gains? For less time spent.
@marvingvx1
3 жыл бұрын
This is the sort of modification made during a rebuild. It is definitely not a bolt on mod.
@moparnut6286
3 жыл бұрын
@@marvingvx1 it's still not worth the time if the engine is sound as dulcich said about taking a good running engine apart just to gain 5 to 7 hp and since Tony's channel is geared to helping the novice is can end up with disastrous consequences...for a stock rebuild sure go ahead but then if you want a performance rebuild that won't be cheap a little more attention to detail is in order than flipping pistons like a magic wand for horse power. For those of us with small budgets and even less time we have to make every dollar spent worth the effort.
@jeffreydurham5342
3 жыл бұрын
If I were freshening up my engine, I'd reverse the pistons. No one is going to tear down a perfectly good engine for a chance at a few HP!
@moparnut6286
3 жыл бұрын
@@jeffreydurham5342 totally agree!
@garyderian4350
3 жыл бұрын
Another possibility is a long rod to stroke ratio benefits less by a reversed pin offset.
@gnasha8146
2 жыл бұрын
great video very informative, thank you David
@hondatech5000
3 жыл бұрын
Yes!!!
@raymondpauze8801
3 жыл бұрын
Steve has a KZitem channel too but not much on it.
@richardmoerke9329
3 жыл бұрын
It would be nice to see you guys get together on a motor! All you guys together would make a killer motor.
@joesmith306
3 жыл бұрын
Do gapless rings make more power?
@bcbloc02
3 жыл бұрын
If done properly absolutely they do.
@marvingvx1
3 жыл бұрын
YES!
@troymecey
3 жыл бұрын
@@marvingvx1 how about the new Sealed Power ported rings?
@joesmith306
3 жыл бұрын
@@marvingvx1 Ok, so why don't I hear and read more about gapless rings? It seems they're not that popular.
@V8Lenny
3 жыл бұрын
No , if they did , every real race engine would be using them.
@danielsullivan9865
3 жыл бұрын
Do a video on Rod ratio. Good debate.
@stooartbabay
3 жыл бұрын
Hi David, I know you may have done this to death... but would you please consider doing a final “round up” video on the BMC 1800 engine built for performance? Something that takes in all of your years of experience plus the latest and greatest tricks, that will bring us up to date as of 2021... it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks :)
@marvingvx1
3 жыл бұрын
I am wondering just how big the audience may be for that???
@stooartbabay
3 жыл бұрын
There are many people that race MGBs, personally I have an Austin 1800 rally car... There are many projects going on in people’s garages today. I know you have done videos in the past, but it would be great to have a just a round up video with your latest thoughts... at some point, all this knowledge will be gone unless it is recorded. As an example... I have a very short video of me literally starting my engine... it is about 30 seconds long... and it now have 1600 views! There is still great interest out there :)
@EJProMods
3 жыл бұрын
Is there any disadvantages with reversing pistons other than piston slap?
@marvingvx1
3 жыл бұрын
NO
@Baard2000
3 жыл бұрын
The 500th like !!
@ricknoe2455
3 жыл бұрын
cool
@2011metalmaniac
3 жыл бұрын
David did you ever meet Keith Duckworth from Cosworth?
@marvingvx1
3 жыл бұрын
NO - ALTHOUGH I HAD DEALINGS WITH HIM OVER THE PHONE.
@2011metalmaniac
3 жыл бұрын
@@marvingvx1 have you looked at the new ford 7.3 godzilla yet?
@larrygomez2219
3 жыл бұрын
Now let's see what happens when Richard holdner switches the pistons in a 360 if it gains power if it happens will steve say a Tony you were right ? 🤔
@marvingvx1
3 жыл бұрын
I HOPE RICHARD APPRECIATES THAT REVERSING THE PISTONS ALSO MOVES TDC SO IGNITION AND CAM TIMING NEED TO BE ADJUSTED AND OPTIMIZED.
@hotrodray6802
3 жыл бұрын
EXACTLY... Also the piston accelleration rate etc might indicate a cam grind change. 😱😷😁
@davidleonard8369
3 жыл бұрын
@@marvingvx1 I really love all the hard work he puts into his testing but it drives me crazy when he tests multiple cams in an identical short block. He always gives lift, duration and lsa. But he tends to gloss over the intake valve closing point. Seems to me that using the same static compression ratio on multiple cams that getting the best dynamic compression ratio for a particular application would be hit and miss. And make one cam look better or worse by not optimizing compression ratio.
@UcantBeSerious03
3 жыл бұрын
outstanding
@ritchschut1997
2 жыл бұрын
The one thing that everyone needs to understand about Dulcich, he has a dyno in his home shop. That guy has done more experimenting and testing of ideas and theory's than most people considered to be experts. Based on what I glean from this video though, your pretty deep into diminishing returns to have custom pistons made to gain 5 or 6 hp. Not worth it to the average hot rodder.
@jamest.5001
3 жыл бұрын
I guess as long as they aren't installed upside down it will work out, haha, fir some reason, about every engine I built, (SBC!) Had double valve reliefs, I guess so they can be reversed! I tend to use flat tops, with 60-64cc heads, and like to get a zero deck, or get the Pistons above deck about .010" or less than .020", if I'm running a thick gasket, like MLS gaskets, I'm thinking my 385cid stroker needs to have a piston switcheroo! I'll have to press them off, and back, I want to check rod bolts and head and main studs, I'm thinking I may got counterfeit arp studs, I bought from a questionable source, back when they had alot of issues with that, but it has a balanced 5140 crank and rods, forged Pistons, and comp nitrous HP cam, I want to swap to a hyd. Roller, but after your videos, I'm thinking I should atleast give it a go! And I want to port the Doug Herbert aluminum heads! And play with the valves, possibly go a bit larger, with your knowledge, I don't see why it can't see 2hp/cid! I originally wanted to go with a turbo, but funding ran out, I went ahead and built it, because I didn't want all the parts sitting around, possibly walking off, it has a single plane, Victor style intake, I'm thinking I'd like to go with a good dual plane, it's the bigger 210cc intake runners, that are vortec and traditional SBC, I'd like to keep low end, from 2k up anyway, if I could drop the compression a bit, I'd like to get a bit of boost! But that will likely have to wait, for the next one.. like my +030"400, it could be disassembled Cleaned, and put back together, but who's gonna do that! I have a couple scat cranks, one supposed to be a 400, if not I think it's a 383 crank, that cast steel is a awesome idea, but the 385, it's a +. 040" block, it's the most radical engine I built, most others were stock crank, or a scat crank, and the best stock rods I could find, with hypereutectic Pistons, with either decent stock heads ported, or aluminum , most used alot of stock parts, you have been a great inspiration, I love engines, and making power, knowing how to modify engine parts, to make power, is amazing, I have always wanted to push it as far as possible, thank you for all the knowledge, and the effort into your videos!
@lancecooper4646
3 жыл бұрын
Everyone's boosting nowadays, it's more impressive getting results with an n/a setup 👍
@hotrodray6802
3 жыл бұрын
You don press pins, you just swap the left bank piston rod assemblies to the right bank v.v.
@kirkjames6681
3 жыл бұрын
hi David, i am really enjoying learning from your vids and books, in the early 70's ford Australia racing team were also doing this to the XY GT-HO falcons with great success. thanks for sharing you wisdom and experience, It is appreciated greatly.
@8power857
3 жыл бұрын
That was a load of BS to blow competition off the trail. I have tried it using the exact same pistons in the same engine. Zero power gain, more piston noise by a LOT in particular at cruise and in steady throttle/rpm conditions.
@dielauwen
3 жыл бұрын
Steve is a smart man. Uncle tony not so much. Uncle tony says wash engine parts in gasoline. What kind of idiot does that. Talk about toxic. Gasoline distribution is used to spread toxic waste around the country .It is called dissipation. People who work with gasoline use protective gear to be safe. Uncle Tony sticks his bear hands in it and inhales the fumes also. One spark and you can meet your maker in a toasty way. Less than so many parts per million is acceptable the Politicians came up with. I say he is insane. You may well not recommend his site to anyone leas you get blamed for someones death Mr. Vizard.
@unclesquirrel6951
3 жыл бұрын
I think I'll wait until Richard Holdener does the test then I'll take that as fact not speculation or hear say
@davidleonard8369
3 жыл бұрын
So you don't believe David Vizard? I guess cabral is the accepted expert on all subjects concerning engine performance. After all he removed the 302 and replaced it with a 428 in his mustang and it improved the performance. Smartest sumbitch ever. Dale Armstrong would be jealous.
@marvingvx1
3 жыл бұрын
Unless I am mistaken this comment sounds like all the testing I did resulted in only speculation???????? Pray tell how you came to that conclusion? DV
@davidleonard8369
3 жыл бұрын
@@marvingvx1 pay no mind to him. He is a troll for Brian cabrals utg troll channel.
@TL-angzarr
3 жыл бұрын
So then nothing? No hp numbers no rpm only appeal to authority? Sorry while I respect your experience you yourself said it was within testing variation. Without doing further tests to eliminate this possibility the opinions are just that. I would like to see back to back numbers. Across multiple engines to eliminate the possibility that another design factor is the cause. Smokeys comments are always taken out of context and many times are only true in the context that he's speaking. Look at his comments on rod length, in a Nascar SBC running the old 292 heads it was true. Change any of those variables and it's not.
@chestrockwell8328
3 жыл бұрын
David did provide HP numbers and TQ numbers for at least three different style engines he tested on. Are you referring only to the SBC testing where as the improvement was minimal on that specific engine? You are free to build multiples of engines and perform your own back to back testing then share your results on your YT channel.
@TL-angzarr
3 жыл бұрын
@@chestrockwell8328 Yes that's what I'm speaking of. Thank you for giving me permission to build and test engines I was waiting with baited breath for it.
@chestrockwell8328
3 жыл бұрын
@@TL-angzarr I could tell you begged for my blessing, now run along and succeed grasshopper.
@TL-angzarr
3 жыл бұрын
@@chestrockwell8328 Here's the thing, the only time this gets brought up as being worth it is in very specific contexts. I.e it's not a universal speed secret. When the exact cause of the effect is still speculation then it's misleading to give it to people as general advice.
@chestrockwell8328
3 жыл бұрын
@@TL-angzarr I hear ya TL, I look at it like this each engine build is unique to itself. There are always "build criteria" along with compromise. On a SBC piston flip might be worth 2 hp or 12, it will vary on every engine combination. Are you just looking for solid science on piston flipping or for a specific build you're working on?
@brandonbell3089
3 жыл бұрын
We arguing over 7HP 🤣🤣 Jesus how petty could you be!!!!!
@rogerpierce6209
3 жыл бұрын
7 here..5 there..3 somewhere else...it sometimes separates the winners from losers👍
@davidleonard8369
3 жыл бұрын
They do it on formula v engines. Adding 7 Hp to an 80 Hp engine will get you sitting on the pole.
@PerformanceEngines
3 жыл бұрын
7 HP here, 7 HP there, and next thing there calling you a cheater. Like they did Smokey.LOL
@aussiebloke609
3 жыл бұрын
@@davidleonard8369 Every little bit helps when your total is so low. I'm going to have to try this on a A-series Mini.
@tomdillard9558
3 жыл бұрын
in a 3200 pound car with about 350 horsepower another 10 horsepower is worth about a tenth of a second, to super stock guys that is huge
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