I have used and been very impressed with Dayton Audio drivers for many years. Maximum bang for the buck. It seems as if these speakers are in the same vein. As far as efficiency goes, the laws of physics are working against small drivers, they will never get as loud as large ones. But, high quality small speakers can put out some impressive sounding background music, these seem to fit that bill well.
@johnyang799
5 жыл бұрын
There is no relationship between efficiency and driver size. The reason why there less efficient is because small drivers have less bass. If you want deep extension the only way is to lower the efficiency of higher frequency otherwise the bass would roll off early.
@waynechirnside1831
6 жыл бұрын
Thrift store find, 2xTecnics with 12 inch woofers, another set of different Tecnics slightly smaller also with 12 inch woofers, all in pristine condition run all wired two in parallel left and right driven by a class D amplifier Audigy sound card with Pandora premium my go to place for my sounds. NICE
@JosephCrowesDIYSpeakerBuilding
5 жыл бұрын
The manual says the woofer is treated paper but it’s definitely a polypropylene cone. Also it says first order crossover for the low frequency but I saw an electrolyte capacitor and a polypropylene capacitor on the crossover leading me to believe its second order on the low frequency. I was surprised how big the magnet was for such an affordable speaker. It was nice the terminal cups were a big size. Overall the build quality is impressive. Good review BTW.
@davekazoroski6548
5 жыл бұрын
A while back, I bought some treated paper Dayton 8" woofers. Yes on the front, they look poly, on the back they are paper. The treatment is a surface coating on the paper cone. My personal experience with Dayton speakers - they are what they say they are, they sound better than their price. Dayton / Parts Express are decent, honest people to deal with.
@LordOneHoop
6 жыл бұрын
Great review. You convinced me to buy the speakers after all.
@amb3cog
6 жыл бұрын
Great video John. These are pretty impressive little speakers. And I bet they would sound better if they were high passed at like 80hz, and mated to a subwoofers, or two. While they're definitely not audiophile stuff, like you said. I can think of many uses for these. At that price you could basically fill your house with them. I would like to grab a pair of these to drag out on the deck with me in the summer. Could use a little class D amp board, and an old car battery with a step up converter to get some watts going. I have a little DAC/headphone amp that works off USB, and a laptop that lasts forever on battery. Could be very nice.
@JohnAudioTech
6 жыл бұрын
I bought them to use on my computer to replace my $15 Craigslist speakers that were too large for the desk. It has a subwoofer. I'll have to see how they work out. So far, I like the sound.
@amb3cog
6 жыл бұрын
JohnAudioTech Yea those are perfect little desk speakers actually. Especially if you have a sub to use. The only bad thing about them is the rear port. It's actually a good thing for sound, but sucks for placement. I've been wanting to try some Dayton speakers for a while, and these are probably the most interesting ones yet. Hope they work out for you.
@SianaGearz
6 жыл бұрын
If you lightly stuff a small amount of wool down the port, the hump might disappear and the bass extension will be reduced. They still need to be high passed electronically though. I wonder how the completely closed conversion will sound? Probably still a bit humpy.
@amb3cog
6 жыл бұрын
Siana Gearz Well like anything else. You'd have to experiment of course. And you could add a simple capacitor to take out the bass too. Don't need to use electronics like DSP. Just look up bass busters, or bass blockers for car audio. And you could just get the value, and buy it from an electronic supply store to save money. Or ask at a forum, like Parts Express Tech Talk (think that's what they call it, anyway). Just remember. That hump is there for a reason, and if you're not using a sub. You'll want to leave it. Also. If you plug the port. You lose 3db of SPL. And that's pretty significant with this speaker actually.
@SianaGearz
6 жыл бұрын
Unfortunately the midbass hump shouldn't just come out with the high-pass - it's usually a sign of cabinet being too small for the driver. If you can measure the in-cabinet TSP and estimate the central frequency and width of the hump, you can design a band attenuation filter, though it's not a quick process, at least not quick for me, maybe someone else has that figured out. But generally the quality of forum advice is such that i'd rather treat it as a last resort, there's a lot of blind leading the blind going on there, and discussion getting stuck in tangents that go nowhere, etc, even with the best of intentions. I have physics and electronics engineering education and some good books, I should be able to figure things out, or ask people that I trust like John when stuck. The hump is for the reason that systems with a midbass hump give a more striking first impression and sell better, but they do not make the music more enjoyable in my opinion, quite the contrary. To the extent that some waviness in response is necessary and expected to get the best performance out of the vent, it would be concentrated at the very bottom of the range, like sub 80Hz for such a speaker, and I find this much more agreeable than a midbass hump. I have hump-free ELAC BS52 (sealed small speakers) and I basically couldn't be happier with the sound. For comparison, I have also sealed midbass-humped Magnat Monitor Supreme 100, same size, and while they have NUMEROUS sonic issues - a coloured sounding tweeter on its own, a neutral plane that is tilted WAY downwards, overall muddy sound over the whole midrange, because of crosstalk between tweeter and woofer, indicating likely a near complete lack of a crossover - yet to open them up, because i'm not sure they're worth the effort... and yes, the hump, I can't say I like the hump! I don't even run subwoofers any longer and don't feel that I need them, although I tend to listen to bass-heavy electronic music a lot, I feel they just cause more issues than they solve. It's not just me. I snuck a modification into my roommate's speakers a few years back while he was away, they are I think Pioneer 5" speakers with a prominent BR hump, at the very low end of the range, and I stuffed a bit of very loose acoustic wool into the BR vent, he was surprised at first that i'd do such a thing, but after hearing the comparison, he kept it that way for good, and he's an absolute bass head - industrial, tech house, those things. It just lowered the BR efficiency a good bit, detuned and lowered its resonant frequency, so the "one note bass" misfeature went away, and he appreciated that, in spite of the now much less apparently bassy signature. And I mean I wear Urbanears Zinken and he wore Aiaiai TMA for the longest time, so it's not like we don't appreciate bass. As to highpassing, well if you are putting together your own amplifier anyway, why not just insert an active filter in there? Small component values, less quality issues because you're not actually passing any current whatsoever, no dependence on the speaker behaviour and temperature. As to prices, Intertech charges about 3-4€ per capacitor, for electrolytic 60V AC capacitors, the ones you'd use in a passive crossover, and if you want a steeper slope there's also the inductor that will add about that much in wire cost alone, and these aren't even bad prices, but it's not even something i'm too bothered about, I just dislike the idea, I find it too finicky. You'll find that "universal" chosen values are never quite right for an individual speaker, because of the high impedance variability around the bottom of the frequency range, and active crossover solves that issue. Active are also easy to make fine-tuneable as you can leave resistance and capacitance alone and have resistive fine tuning with trimpots. I think the subwoofer experiment might be coming back eventually, we'll see, but I want to be fairly rigorous about it this time over. Also I think I might come back to Magnat and finally consider designing an alternative crossover to smooth over some of the issues, just because they are pieces of shit I don't care about and don't mind playing around with, and I might learn a thing or two - first off, I want to figure out how to capture impedance and acoustic response curves and get them into BoxSim, without spending actual money.
@DanLimbach
5 жыл бұрын
The Dayton Audio B452-AIR also deserves consideration if you want a small bookshelf speaker. 4.5" mid/bass driver AMT ribbon tweeter (the star of the show) 6 ohms (better for most amps than the MK402 4 ohm impedence 84db sensitivity (same as MK402) Only $45.88/pair compared to $69/pair for the MK402 If you can go a little bigger, the B652-Air is far superior. 87db sensitivity. 6.5" mid/bass driver. AMT ribbon tweeter. Better frequency range. Better sounding in every way. Still surprisingly small for the sound it produces. Only $50.88/pair. Best value in audio I have ever seen. Buy a pair of these just to play with and you'll be hooked.
@JohnAudioTech
5 жыл бұрын
I wonder if the B652-Air has a proper crossover. I had the standard B652 and found them a little boomy around 90Hz.
@manFromPeterborough
5 жыл бұрын
@@JohnAudioTech I have the air model, it still has a 1 cap crossover and 3 ohm dropping resistor, The cap could better be dropped from 6.8 uF to 3.3 and a 0.47 mH coil added to the woofer, it has same woofer as the standard 652
@OZSA87
5 жыл бұрын
Hey, I want to replace my old Creative T20 II (they died) with something a bit better but still small, my options are B452 (61$ / B452 Air (66$), B652 (non-air, 72$), or MK402 (100$). I'd use them on low volume most of the time and I doubt I'd push them to even 50% ever, my old creative wasn't pushed above 50% and they are tiny drivers (2.3"). I'd buy SMSL M3 or Topping MX3 to drive this (will need one of those to drive my headphones through the TV with optical cable). Which speaker would you buy ? Small room, would be used with a PC.
@genehunter94
6 жыл бұрын
Which sound best between these mk402's and the micca mb42x????
@MassimoTava
6 жыл бұрын
Would be nice to review monoprice and elac speakers. Do you have a patrion page yet?
@JohnAudioTech
6 жыл бұрын
I signed up with Patreon a couple weeks ago, but I need to setup a page. My add revenue here has been dropping like a rock so I need to do something in order to afford to buy items to review.
@SianaGearz
6 жыл бұрын
Yeah I have been wondering where to throw money at you! As to ELAC, how would that even work, I mean do you get them outside Europe and Australia? And then things are not exactly budget. I have had BS52 for a while and I love them as near field speakers, good neutrality, nothing sticks out in particular about the sound, though bass extension is not there at all, and they don't sound too weird and horrible when you move around in your chair.
@jonnyrocker7919
6 жыл бұрын
Please setup or let me know if you have a PayPal account, been using it for years, works great for me so far. I can donate to you in that way.
@esotericaudiophile3884
6 жыл бұрын
Excellent review! I have the micca WB 42X, they are excellent but lack a bit of bass...
@manFromPeterborough
4 жыл бұрын
MB not WB I have the basic version I found better than Polk T15
@ianskeggs5294
6 жыл бұрын
Hi John Watched a lot of your stuff on the tube, I’m wondering why speaker manufacturers and designers don’t want introduce, or re introduce, more efficient drivers. Could be a good subject for you
@HillsWorkbench
6 жыл бұрын
It is mostly a matter of size and the physics. To get bass out of a small box, you have to have a long throw woofer, usually air suspension. NOT going air suspension in this speaker is a bit of a surprise, probably helped the overall efficiency of this box even though some of that advantage was lost needing a more complex crossover to tame the response. My BIG issue with this type of woofer is longevity as they are rarely made with a deep cloth accordion suspension in favor of a half roll foam, which usually only survive a few years. ie. kzitem.info/news/bejne/uJmbrK6XanyloIo
@nunyabiz2016
5 жыл бұрын
So between these and a $40 Kinter amp I am hoping I come out ahead of some $100 Logitech 2.1 computer speakers for my PC. Did I make a good choice?
@criven3128
5 жыл бұрын
Yep
@snaprollinpitts
6 жыл бұрын
hey John, great video, and I like the speakers, but when you review something like this if possible can you leave a link to where you bought them so I can get some too? thanks mike
@JohnAudioTech
6 жыл бұрын
Hi Mike, here's a link. They also have a Bluetooth amplified version. www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-mk402-4-2-way-bookshelf-speaker-pair--300-455
@snaprollinpitts
6 жыл бұрын
thanks John, how's the camera working out? the video looks pretty clear!
@JohnAudioTech
6 жыл бұрын
Video is great and still picture quality is wonderful. Sound quality is not quite what I had hoped for. Nobody ever tests camera audio properly so you can never tell what you are getting.
@snaprollinpitts
6 жыл бұрын
so long as it is an improvement and it is! the sound quality is just fine. enjoy my friend.
@clydebostick7487
6 жыл бұрын
This was a good review. I may be in the minority, but I prefer the amp reviews and builds. Please do some more.
@belialuedke1880
5 жыл бұрын
Really liked this.
@genehunter94
6 жыл бұрын
Are these good for nearfield listening? Are they harsh at all on the ears ? Is the bass good at low volumes? Hows the imaging?
@JohnAudioTech
6 жыл бұрын
I now use mine near field as computer speakers. I think they sound good for their price. I use a subwoofer because I wan't the deep bass which these cannot provide alone.
@mikeriverajr4447
4 жыл бұрын
what did you think between these and the b652 air, my goal is flatt accuarcy
@JohnAudioTech
4 жыл бұрын
I haven't tried the Air version. It has the same woofer of the regular 652 that has a bass bump around 100Hz which is not ideal. The MK402 is a better speaker if you can live with the lower sensitivity.
@genehunter94
6 жыл бұрын
What are you powering them with?
@officiallyisaiah6408
5 жыл бұрын
Im getting them and do you think 50 watts will stress the woofer or tweeter at full volume
@JohnAudioTech
5 жыл бұрын
Depends on the type of music. Compressed, loud, and/or bass heavy can stress these little speakers.
@manFromPeterborough
4 жыл бұрын
20w RMS is the limit for these, I looked at the tweeter on PE and it state that wattage being said
@mikeriverajr4447
4 жыл бұрын
also i see you have a uni-t i just orded the 216c just waiting for it to get here
@johnsweda2999
6 жыл бұрын
It would be impregnated silk the tweeter. You can tell it's not a good design set to far back in the battle and flared out ideally you want the Dome to be proud of the baffle you take that off the baffle plate if it's possible and one use a old fashioned hard drive aluminium disc would work better. Not good type of bracing?
@SianaGearz
6 жыл бұрын
Silk? No. You're not getting a $20+ tweeter for this price. Expect poly soft dome. Besides, completely disagree that it has to be proud. It needs to be recessed to avoid dipping neutral plane, of course recessed has its pitfalls due to slight and somewhat improper horn loading, but it helps hide the baffle diffraction. I think they did what they had to, to make it super affordable foremost and good second.
@and1424
5 жыл бұрын
Whats the 3rd song? Thanks!
@genehunter94
6 жыл бұрын
Is there a subwoofer playing in the sound demo?
@JohnAudioTech
6 жыл бұрын
No subwoofer.
@geertbuevink4632
6 жыл бұрын
please level the sound volume voice vs music is on my sound setup way to big . thanx upfront
@Great_Indian_Basturds
5 жыл бұрын
What is the subwoofers frequency please answer
@1pcfred
6 жыл бұрын
4 Ohm speakers make me worried.
@SianaGearz
6 жыл бұрын
Small speakers just usually are, because they need more power to drive - off the same given amplifier voltage swing. Almost futile hunting for 8 Ohm ones. 4 Ohm 3-4 inch woofers usually match 8 Ohm tweeters approximately in volume.
@davekazoroski6548
6 жыл бұрын
Most solid state amplifiers hav no trouble pulling a 4 ohm load. Many tube amplifiers have a 4 ohm tap on their output transformers. Based on the size and intended purpose (listening at a "sane" volume) of these speakers - no worries.
@SianaGearz
6 жыл бұрын
The output impedance of solid state amplifiers is nearly universally pretty much zero; however potential overheating issues are very possible, though it's possible that you'll hit excursion limit on these little ones long before you torch up your amplifier. Just to check that i wasn't insane and 4-Ohm-unfriendly amplifiers are a thing, i checked out affordable models from a bunch of big Japanese brands on Amazon. Pioneer A10-K - 4-Ohm-compatible. Onkyo TX-8020 - 4-Ohm-compatible. Yamaha RS202DBL - 8-Ohm and up only, and spring clamp speaker terminals, not screw. Sony STR-DH190 - 6-Ohm and up, clamp terminals like above. So yeah i'm not insane, half of this list however is; i mean these are all around 200€, housing likely just 20€ worth of stuff in them, wouldn't there be just 50ct extra budget for better cooling? And another 20ct for a more suitable terminal? HATE.
@1pcfred
6 жыл бұрын
Yeah I guess you're right. I'm looking over the paperwork of the amp I'd run those speakers on and it claims a 3 Ohm load. So I guess it'd be OK? Now it is down to the room. That system is in a tight spot. As small as these speakers are they're bigger than what I'm using now. It is a surround sound system on a PC I use in my electronics bench. Which is at a desk in the corner of my garage. I'd say the whole space is only about 10'x10'. So it is pretty cramped.
@vishnupandey1186
6 жыл бұрын
Hello sir
@johnsenchakinternetnetwork2025
6 жыл бұрын
You can get those speakers from partsexpress.com The "worms ate into your brain" !
@realflow100
5 жыл бұрын
Watching this video with these speakers. lol
@DolezalPetr
6 жыл бұрын
gut
@anwaypasible
5 жыл бұрын
here's what a pair of fostex speakers sound like when calibrated (you've got to script a phenomena, not to be confused with magnet tricks): kzitem.info/news/bejne/tX18056MpmKmiI4
@timschutte8310
5 жыл бұрын
, looks like that poor speaker was dragged behind a truck, damn
Пікірлер: 63