3 courts to figure this out? What does this say about our piss poor judicial system!
@mattmatt6572
7 ай бұрын
They don't like freeloaders?
@ImprobableGarage
7 ай бұрын
@@mattmatt6572 This is literally a trial because they had no proof she had any connection to this debt. How is she a freeloader for refusing to pay a debt that is not theirs? How about you pay the debt? They has as much proof you owe it as her
@matthewkreps3352
7 ай бұрын
That it works because this is why the appellate courts exist.
@s1mph0ny
7 ай бұрын
@@mattmatt6572 they're bootlickers?
@s1mph0ny
7 ай бұрын
@@matthewkreps3352 No it's not, appellate courts are for correcting errors of law, not obvious missed verifications of the facts.
@ChillyJack
7 ай бұрын
I wish I could do my job entirely wrong as often as district/trial court judges do without any fear of losing my job or getting my pay docked.
@tomkelly00
7 ай бұрын
Or cops!
@BishopStars
7 ай бұрын
Most people are bad at their jobs.
@cjburian1
7 ай бұрын
Courts of appeal have these issues, too. See how many times SCOTUS has reversed an appeals court ruling 9-0. That's such a brutal smackdown and blatant telltale of incompetence that it ought to trigger investigation of the judges involved.
@ChillyJack
7 ай бұрын
@@cjburian1 And then there's Hawaii's supreme court, which just outright says they're going to ignore the Supreme Court's ruling.
@AdmiralBlackstar
7 ай бұрын
Be a weather reporter.
@aherrera6182
7 ай бұрын
Crazy that she lost like 3 times when they couldn't produce a document with her signature
@christopherkidwell9817
7 ай бұрын
Not crazy... par for the course for our legal system especially in state controlled by conservatives who LUUUUUURVE to assume that debt is always valid.
@jrstf
7 ай бұрын
@@christopherkidwell9817 - Conservatives know that Trump's debt to NYC is not valid.
@Elrog3
7 ай бұрын
@@christopherkidwell9817 Do you have evidence that political leaning has anything to do with this?
@christopherkidwell9817
7 ай бұрын
@@Elrog3Yeah: Documentation over the past 30 years by various government and non-governmental consumer rights organizations that say that if you are in a conservative state, you had better hope no one steals your identity because they will allow these businesses to follow you TO YOUR GRAVE to get money from you that they are not entitled to. Difference between Alabama (where numerous 8 year olds back in 1990 were sued over credit card debt due to stolen identity) and Maryland, where the debt holders have to 'dot their I's and cross their T's' respectively.
@patrickday4206
7 ай бұрын
Welcome to the Corporate States of America
@JofoTubin
7 ай бұрын
PRA put a collection on my report for something I didn't owe. I ignored it for years. Then when I bought a house in 2022, my mortgage lender made me pay into escrow enough to pay PRA so I did. The closing attorney gave me a check to mail them. I burned it! I figured, fine, the closing attorney could keep the money but no way I was sending it to PRA. 6mo after closing, the closing attorney sent me a letter saying basically, "hey, they never cashed that check so here's your money back." BOOYA!
@dtcdtc8328
7 ай бұрын
😂😂😂😂 thanks man, I have 3 disc herniations and a fractured vertebrae (thanks to an Illegal rear ending me at red light in 02) and today is one of those insufferable days of pain ( I swore off All narcs 12 years ago for pain) and you made me LOL and there's nothing better than that!
@MandyPants1975
6 ай бұрын
That gave me a great chuckle. Thank you.
@everythingpony
5 ай бұрын
But you burned it?
@RT-qd8yl
4 ай бұрын
@@everythingpony You don't understand how checks work, do you?
@DanaNelson-fd4fu
2 ай бұрын
That was clever ....attorney didn't have to reimburse you they could have just carried on about their business!
@CherieMonique5
7 ай бұрын
You can’t see me but I’m giving this lady a ‘standing ovation’ from the seat of my car right now. Positive result on appeal filed pro se??? Wow!
@jupitercyclops6521
7 ай бұрын
I see you!! I'm. Behind you. Don't forget to drive Ms twist
@MeRia035
7 ай бұрын
Yep, very impressive!
@1rotbed
7 ай бұрын
Read up on similar decisions for your court on Google Scholar to see what the court is looking for. Become familiar with the court rules of procedure and fit yourself within them to get relief you want, keep it simple, be concise, don’t miss any deadlines.
@lightningdemolition1964
7 ай бұрын
I hope you are either in a convertible or really really short.
@roxcyn
7 ай бұрын
I'm sure she used online resources. There are a LOT online about this topic.
@philgunsaules2468
6 ай бұрын
This is one reason debt transference should be extremely regulated, if not outright illegal.
@wolfman_jack
3 ай бұрын
Agree, it's quite slimy. At one time creditors would farm out collections to an agency that would work on fee percentage of the amount of debt to be collected. If a period of time past with no result , then court .
@RipliWitani
Ай бұрын
Credit cards will disappear. The scam only works if there are debt collectors willing to buy off bad debt
@rogerhargrave9952
7 ай бұрын
What kind of lower court accepts evidence not presented because it is confidential.? My gosh, that kind of baloney would make any lawsuit viable. " He said this and it's true, yet you can't see the proof because it's confidential." "Judge says ok to corporate conglomerate." It sure seems like big money owns these lower courts.?
@tomw8647
7 ай бұрын
In VA, corporations own the government, namely mining, tobacco and energy. Courts are typically deferential to corporations regardless of the law....IMO
@Richard-or9rt
7 ай бұрын
True, I would like to see an investigation on money and the judicial system. Money is found influencing everything from politics to medicine. The judicial system, considering its importance, must surely be corrupted too.
@admthrawnuru
7 ай бұрын
Lower courts seem to have an establishment bias. They beleive government over anyone else, and companies over people. Obviously plenty of judges don't, but enough do that you often have to expect to appeal before getting a serious ruling.
@youtubasoarus
7 ай бұрын
I don't think they can use confidential information that the defendant is not able to see during discovery. This sort of thing is nonsense. Both sides are allowed to see what the other is going to present in court.
@Vanlifecrisis
7 ай бұрын
Its rubber stamping. These corpos file so many suits that the judges just rubber stamp them by default. Remember the court gets big business from filing fees from these corpos.
@larrybolhuis1049
7 ай бұрын
We actually got hounded after a student loan debt was sold, however we had paid it off early. We sent them a copy of the payment letter. They sent us a check because the original bank that owned the debt miscalculated the payoff! It was only about $35.00 but still, they paid US! Shocking.
@floydjohnson4915
7 ай бұрын
I remember during the '08 mortgage failures that Washington Mutual (WAMU) had the same problem. They had bought up a bunch of failed mortgages, but they were sloppy with their paperwork. Turned out WAMU was so disorganized that they couldn't produce any paperwork on thousands of cases because the files were in boxes, shrink wrapped on pallets in warehouses with no identification. So when the hearings were held, WAMU couldn't prove ownership of the mortgages.
@PandorasFolly
7 ай бұрын
I used to work with a guy who has this happen to him sort of. His mortage wasn't bad though. Heis mrotgage just got traded by over 150 companies in a 3 year period and at some point between sloppiness, being traded multiple times in a day, and companies going out of business the mortgage companies loat whatever important proofs and documents were necessary to prove they owned the mortgage. The funniest part to me was midway through the court process the owning company sold the 300k$ mortgage for 10k$ to another debt collection company. Guy got his mortgage for free for some small tax payments to the IRS
@Snarkbar
7 ай бұрын
@@PandorasFolly Nice!!! :)
@randallsmerna384
7 ай бұрын
What then happened to the houses?
@jeraldbottcher1588
7 ай бұрын
And as a result WAMU ended up failing and going the way of the Dodo
@robertspray7472
7 ай бұрын
@@randallsmerna384if empty, they likely got sold for tax or other liens.
@JimJWalker
7 ай бұрын
This happened to my mother-in-law who went to Stetson Law, but did not finish. She worked as a para-legal for 35 years. When Bank of America bought Countrywide in Florida in 2008, they did not do the "Doing Business As" as "Bank of America" in Florida for the Countrywide debts. They used "Bank of America NA", so my mother in law counter sued Bank of America claiming they had no standing, as BOA could not prove they held the note to her house. She eventually discovered every home foreclosed by BOA in Florida was fraudulent and "robo-signed". BOA could not prove that BOA NA, even existed (no president, ceo, or any real employees) when she deposed them. Eventually after firing SEVEN law firms fighting her, BOA gave her the house as the legal fees being incurred was higher than the value of the home. They made her sign an NDA about their fraud to hush her up.
@TryHardNewsletter
7 ай бұрын
I don't really follow this. How could they not produce whatever documents Countrywide would have had. What do you mean "robo-signed". If "B of A NA" was on some piece of letterhead and the "NA" was an accident, why couldn't they just re-send the same document with "NA" removed? None of this makes any sense.
@JimJWalker
7 ай бұрын
@@TryHardNewsletter I got some further clarification from my mother in law. She was able to prove that BOA withdrew from the state of Florida as being "authorized to do business", she thinks it was tax related. BOA then had a notary after the fact "robo-sign" documents to hide they had withdrawn. BOA argued they were authorized 'Federally', but they were suing in state court. Since they were not authorized to do business in Florida, they had no standing to the title of the home in Florida. This would be the same for any Floridian foreclosed on at that time.
@jesse00pno
7 ай бұрын
GOOD FOR HER!!! When it’s a little guy versus a huge business, I’m ALWAYS gonna side with the little guy.
@niyablake
2 күн бұрын
Because country wide the master promissory note . That's the contact. Boa was sued over robo signing and it came out that country wide lost thousands of master promissory mote
@niyablake
2 күн бұрын
@@TryHardNewsletter robo signed is reference to machine that does signatures. Boa got using that machine to mass sign lawsuits with boiling plate template with out checking the facts
@patpatpat999
7 ай бұрын
Debt collectors are like someone who dumpster dives for an item, then takes it to the stores and demands a cash refund.
@wolfman_jack
3 ай бұрын
Yeah, though it's legal , it reeks of sliminess. Creditors get to double dip, as they're insured for lose then sell the original debt to these greasy outfits who ,due to public ignorance and fear , make out like bandits.
@RipliWitani
Ай бұрын
Unsecured debt is a joke. You want me to pay? Lol I settle for 10% and my credit report cleans up Ina few years. Invest the 90% and you come out golden
@TravisMcMurray
7 ай бұрын
Portfolio Recovery is the sleaziest, most nasty debt collector out there. I’m glad they lost. I hope they keep losing.
@Freedomthrufaith123
4 ай бұрын
Exactly
@robs7060
5 ай бұрын
We need criminal charges against debt collectors who attempt to collect money erroneously. I've paid the same debt off to different agencies several times on several different occasions. The industry is racket
@danielhurst8863
7 ай бұрын
The lack of documentation is a feature, not a bug. The debt collectors don't want you to actually know what the collection is for. This way, the same debt can be collected numerous times. If you are a homeowner, it is even worse, as debt collectors love to simply attach to your credit rating, so you pay it off, to remove from your credit, even if you don't owe it. Because escrow is time limited, they know you will likely pay something just to get through escrow. It's theft, protected by loopholes in the law.
@_PatrickO
7 ай бұрын
If you already own a home, your credit isn't that important. You can also challenge bad debt reported to your credit. They still need to prove the debt or it comes right back off. Many scammers stay out of court and just attack credit scores instead. But it is far easier to challenge bad info on your credit report, so people just need to educate themselves.
@christopherkidwell9817
7 ай бұрын
@@_PatrickONo, it is not 'easy to challenge bad info'. My cousin had her identity stolen 20 years ago and it took her LITERALLY 7 years and a court case to get all the debt from that stolen identity wiped off her records.
@_PatrickO
7 ай бұрын
@@christopherkidwell9817 You didn't read what I said. I am talking about the typical scammer companies that will put erroneous debts on your credit report hoping you pay them. The reality is, it is really simple to remove bad data from your credit report. This has nothing to do with individual identity theft or courts. But just keep in mind, identity theft today is not going to take 7 years of court cases to defeat. The case in the video was a woman who likely did open the debt, but the collectors had sloppy records so they were pursuing debt they had no proof for.
@seanclark8452
7 ай бұрын
@@christopherkidwell9817 I hate that name. Her identity wasn't stolen. Lenders lent money without verifying the identity of the borrower. They then assigned the debt to her to cover the lender's loss, using credit agencies to attempt to coerce a 3rd party (your cousin) to pay a debt not owed. She's a victim of lender blackmail. The other criminals stole from the lender who didn't bother to check, not your cousin. (banks have political power to create this situation - that's the huge problem)
@cylonred8902
7 ай бұрын
Luckily, the company I work for has millions and millions of records/documentation for all portfolios purchased. Never find by the CFPB, pass multiple bank audits every year - audits are designed to check for documents for random accounts. We even had a bank tell us we could not pass their audit - they finally gavr us one - we passed it faster than any other company they audited. Bad companies don't have the data - thankfully - not all purchasers are bad.
@randalmiller7952
7 ай бұрын
Had this happen to me. They had a bunch of medical codes listed so I had no idea what expenses they were collecting for. I replied by asking for the codes translated to plain English AND proof that they have been assigned the debt. Sent that by certified mail. Never heard from them again. Another time a debt collector laughed when I told him my insurance company paid. He said “that’s OK”. The doctor’s office manager had screwed up the books, so he’s billing everyone all over again with no knowledge as to whether they paid. Forget it.”
@TryHardNewsletter
7 ай бұрын
That sounds super mega illegal
@randalmiller7952
7 ай бұрын
@@TryHardNewsletter My regret is that I didn’t report it to the attorney general.
@doublepinger
Ай бұрын
Ugh, sounds like someone I know that worked for Time Warner (got bought by Spectrum, or whatever). All the technicians (pole climbing, installation guys) used to get explicit codes on their work records, and they'd be paid accordingly. Unsurprisingly, after a system change, there were NO CODES. The technicians were literally unable to be paid for ANY of their work. I don't know if any of them took it to court, but every single one had discrepancies on their wages.
@michaelfickel
7 ай бұрын
Had a debt agency call me about a bank debt I denied because it never happened. Prove it, never heard from them again. Later it was announced this same well known American bank was opening accounts in their customers names and doing nefarious things.
@because813
7 ай бұрын
Wells Fargo?
@99guspuppet8
7 ай бұрын
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ Wells Fargo ? ? i have heard about the WF scam
@kaecatlady
7 ай бұрын
Oh, honey... Wells gets sued so often, I'm surprised the states they work in don't each have whole prosecutor's offices just for Wells Fargo's shenanigans!
@troystallard6895
7 ай бұрын
@@kaecatlady Not saying I'm old, but I remember when Wells Fargo was a reputable and trusted alternative to scumbag banks like Bank of America.
@michaelfickel
7 ай бұрын
I was trying to be circumspect. LoL@@kaecatlady
@KabobHope
7 ай бұрын
NEVER pay a debt collector. Pay your original creditor.
@brkbtjunkie
6 ай бұрын
The one time I went into debt, the same portfolio recovery collectors agreed that I could pay half of the original debt and it would be settled.
@joesonnefeld9296
6 ай бұрын
@@brkbtjunkie the original debtor at this point would also be willing to negotiate with you to settle the debt because then they get something and it is off their books
@kacpecie
6 ай бұрын
It might not be as easy. Oftentimes the debt collector is the owner of your debt, so technically you owe the original creditor nothing anymore, as it has been transferred to collectors
@---cr8nw
6 ай бұрын
Once the original creditor accepts payment for your debt from a collection agency and marks your account as paid, you can't pay them. They'll just refund your payment and say that the balance on your account is held by the collection agency and that you should make payment to that agency. Worst case scenario is that they'll hold the money in their accounts receivable account while they try to figure out where to apply the money. Then you're out the money AND you still owe money to the collection agency.
@joesonnefeld9296
6 ай бұрын
@---cr8nw not true I paid the original owner when the collection agency contacted me I told them I didn't owe the debt at that point they have to verify the debt and I never heard from them again.
@TheLepke2011
7 ай бұрын
I once had a debt collector call me to say I owed money for college classes at a school I toured but never enrolled in. The guy said he had signed docs proving it. I asked he send them to me and I'd pay, and explained I never signed anything. He said he couldn't send me the paperwork I signed because it was confidential. I heard from him one more time after that and never again.
@0Clewi0
6 ай бұрын
Who would buy that debt that you own it's too confidential for one to see?
@RobDeHaven
7 ай бұрын
Glad the courts finally figured out the correct ruling. It should not have taken this long. Also, I hate these debt buying companies because they are ruthless and just as bad as telemarketers. For some reason, my phone number was used by people committing fraud so all the debt collectors called me looking for "so and so". I would tell them I don't know that person but they would become irate, saying I was lying to protect this person. The only saving grace, call block. At least they never tied my address to these claims and tried to sue me, that would have been an even bigger nightmare.
@lynchkid003
7 ай бұрын
I have a similar issue. Someone took a bunch of bad loans with my current phone number before I had it. Most of them leave me alone when I tell them that the number got reassigned. But I've had one or two try and get money from me.
@valarianne2284
7 ай бұрын
I've had them ask me to "help them" find the person - and it's usually someone I've never even heard of! I ask them how much they're going to pay me to do their job. They get quite pissed off. Funny as hell! You're annoying me, calling about some stranger and the only way you'll stop is if I "work" for you finding this stranger - for free. No thanks.
@BusArch42
Ай бұрын
Happened to my sister except it was the person who had the number prior had died. They kept calling her for years. And same thing asking her where he was. This was a random person.!
@MelissiaBlackheart
7 ай бұрын
That headline is amazing. The utter convolution in the bills of sale in that court case are ridiculous! If they're gonna go after someone for debt, the courts need to make sure they dot their "i"s and cross their "t"s better than this.
@jerlewis4291
7 ай бұрын
There was a judge in NY that tossed out a ton of foreclosures because the banks filing the foreclosure could not produce the original loan documents because loans were sold so many times that pages of documents were frequently lost. The bank selling the loan really could care less I asked my aunt who was a lawyer if that means the person gets the house? She said, exactly if they can't prove they own the debt they're done.
@joycehollinger1900
7 ай бұрын
Depending on the status of limitations of the debt, when debts are sold the debt buyer doesn't do their homework! I was a debt collector for 20 years. FDCPA, is a guide debtors must proof the debt is real. Factual data holds all your credit record. It can be a headache. Guddos to this person doing due diligence!
@Mewse1203
7 ай бұрын
Something kind of like this happened to me. They called and said I owed a debt on a car accident that I was in. They kept trying to tell me that I had received documentation before then about it, but I had dealt with the whole thing through court, and they had waived all the debt. So I told them they should look through their documentation because I've never gotten anything from this and I was contesting it. They said they'd call me back but they never did, and it's been like 8 years
@valarianne2284
7 ай бұрын
About a year after an accident I had a very nasty, aggressive woman calling from a debt collector in Florida (I'm in NJ) demanding a huge amount of money - around $25,000. I had been t-boned by a guy running a red light. I was knocked unconscious so the police report only had his statement on it. There were no witnesses. Their basic tactic was to try every dirty trick in the book to get me to agree to a "payment plan" of a minimum $20 per month immediately. That very day. Or else they would pull my driver's license. They said they had a special designation as an "arbitration company" so they had powers regular debt collectors didn't have. What they didn't know was I had worked for a check cashing company during college answering phones - but I still had to attend a one day program on the Fair Debt Collection practices so I knew the rules. The lies included: they would have my license pulled, my insurance wasn't valid, the police report stated I was at fault, they had camera footage of the accident - all of which was simply untrue. Being designated an "arbitration" company does NOT give you the super power of deciding who's at fault in an accident or having anyone's license revoked. What they had was a police report in which the other driver claimed it was my fault, and a computer program that told them there were cameras at the intersection. It didn't tell them those cameras had been turned off years ago. When I asked for proof I was responsible for the accident they just kept repeating I had to start paying immediately or they would have NJ pull my license. Ummm - you can't do that. They assured me their "special designation" allowed them to pull licenses. I told them they would first have to get a court order from a judge. They assured me they would get it because my insurance wasn't valid. I asked them how I got the car registered since you have to show proof of insurance in order to register a car in NJ, certainly NJDMV would know if an insurance was valid. They went back to demanding I set up a payment plan immediately to avoid going to court. I told them fine - let's go to court. It's my word against his. You've got a 50-50 chance on who the judge will believe. But if you win you'll never collect a dime. I'm a handicapped senior on a fixed income. I don't own anything, have no rich relatives who'll leave me a ton of money and I don't play the lottery. Further, at $20 per month I'll be long dead before the interest is even paid IF you can get anything. From what I know you can't touch my monthly payments. I also told them it was highly unlikely that any company would spend thousands of dollars on lawyers to get an uncollectable judgement. It wasn't cost effective and made no business sense. They insisted they would sue, they do it all the time. At that point I told them I was surprised they were still in business, you're full of it, don't bother me unless you're sending me paperwork from your lawyers about going to court. Didn't hear anything for about 3 months. Started up again, same tactics pressuring me to enter a payment agreement immediately or else I would lose my driver's license. Same arguments. Rinse and repeat. This went on for almost a year until I got a lawyer to send them a "cease and desist" letter. What bothers me is the blatant lies and coercive tactics they used. I can see how easy it would be to scam someone who didn't know the rules into agreeing to pay. Especially older people who never had any involvement with collection companies. They tried to sound as scary as possible. And rude! The woman, upon being told I was handicapped, said "We're going to pull your license - let's see how you manage to get around without a car. Good luck getting groceries." I can see how that could easily scare an elderly person who believed their "special powers" line of BS. They even tried the "start a payment plan now to prevent losing your license and we'll figure it out later" nonsense. A lot of people might fall for that not realizing that no matter what designation they have they do NOT have the power to pull your license simply on their say so and once you start paying, you own the debt. They're never going to investigate who's really at fault or do anything to help "straighten the misunderstanding out" once they get you to start paying them. The nasty, aggressive tone, the claim to have a "special designation", the half truths - all done to get an uneducated person to believe their BS. They skirted the truth enough, they just left out important parts. For instance the part where they would have to take you to court, prove the accident was your fault, then petition a judge to request your license be pulled. The only flat out lies I believe they told was "we have camera footage proving it's your fault" and going to court - no business is going to invest money in lawyers and courts knowing they won't get a return. The Debt Collection industry may be a necessary evil - but it needs a complete overhaul and a LOT of oversight. Judges need to be aware that these people break the rules on a daily basis. They were doing it decades ago. It seems to have gotten worse over time. Of course a lot of judges know and don't care. Or they have an agreement with the collector. The number of people who know their rights and have the money to fight them is small. Most people pay just to get rid of them. It's less expensive than fighting them. Personally I'd like to see them put out of business the first time they're caught using illegal tactics or telling half truths to coerce people. To be honest, even though I KNEW what they were doing was wrong and vaguely illegal they started getting on my nerves. I wasn't sure what other illegal tactics they might try. Like not sending me legal papers in a timely fashion or trying to force me to come to Florida for a court hearing. It's far too easy for these low lifes to prey on vulnerable people. Normally I don't easily fall for this kind of thing but they definitely got me wondering what else they might try given their attempts to collect money I didn't owe them. As far as I know when you're subjected to this stuff there's no place to register a formal complaint that carries any weight. Your only recourse is to sue them - most people they go after either don't know that, or it's too intimidating, or they have neither the time nor the money. There should be a better way to get rid of the predators out there who just want to make an easy buck.
@stevef68
7 ай бұрын
So, did she get the statutory $1000 award for the violation of the FDCPA?
@mhfuzzball
7 ай бұрын
Bigger question: Since the Circuit Court surrendered her bond to PRA, don't they have to pay that back to her?
@deltalima6703
7 ай бұрын
They defaulted, but she sold it to a debt collection company for $100. 😅
@xyavdast5554
7 ай бұрын
If I understood Mr. Lehto in the video correctly the following happened and will happen now: The appeals court sent the trial back to the lower court with a note telling/ordering the lower court to have the debt collector prove the legitimacy of the debt they claim the woman to owe them. If the debt collector can show documentary proof without any gaps then the verdict will be confirmed. If the debt collector cannot show the proof - just like it seems they cannot from the fact that they avoided doing so till now - then the court will most likely reverse the verdict and have the debt collector pay back the 8.5k they already took and an additional 1k as penalty for violating the law. I just hope that there is a cost shifting statute in case the debt collector is found to be at fault. Otherwise the woman will probably have spent more money on legal fees than the case itself is about.
@mhfuzzball
7 ай бұрын
@xyavdast5554 That's not as much of a problem as you think, because Steve pointed out she was doing this pro se, meaning she has no attorney. So the only legal costs she would have are filing fees.
@anthonygiordano1126
7 ай бұрын
Hey Steve, isn’t there a statute of limitation of 3 years on collecting delinquent debt that starts at the moment you missed a payment, and the account becomes delinquent! Isn’t it a fact that the debt collector cannot sue you after that three-year period but can continue to attempt payment until you send them a cease-and-desist letter?
@braddl9442
3 ай бұрын
What pisses me off is that the lady was clearly in the right on the laws and how they are supposed to work, but the courts still kept Ruling in favor of the debt collectors.
@wisenber
7 ай бұрын
How does a court in Virginia say they don't have experience with debt buyers? That stuff has been going on for decades. I had two similar experiences (without losing at the circuit court level). Both times, I was served notice that I was being sued without any prior communication, and both times I sent a certified letter to the plaintiff and the court requesting that the debt be validated while also requesting that all future communications be in writing. I never got a validation, but i did get robocalled. Both times, I want to court with a counterclaim for Fair Debt Collection Practice violations. Both times, I was awarded five thousand bucks and had their suit tossed out and any credit history reference removed. I never hired an attorney, but I did show up in court three times for each.
@ManSubhu
7 ай бұрын
Add it to the law that to sell a dept you must give right of first refusal to the deptor. So if you are gonna sell somebody's $2k dept to a collection agency for $40 you must first give the deptor the option to by their own dept for that amount.
@robertewalt7789
7 ай бұрын
Or you could attempt to include this as a clause in your debt agreements.
@lottoguy6457
7 ай бұрын
This is 1000 percent how to fix the problem. Let me buy my own debt
@sexygeek8996
7 ай бұрын
Many debtors would default in hopes of "buying" the debt for less than they owe.
@ManSubhu
7 ай бұрын
@@sexygeek8996 ...Meaning creditors would be less inclined to give credit to people with bad credit, knowing the risks. This is a good thing. Remember, the creditors don't have to sell the dept, they can chase the deptor, they can't just pass the dept on to some other muppet.
@JP-jq1qx
7 ай бұрын
@@ManSubhu I see what you did there and I approve!
@dyingearth
7 ай бұрын
They usually only have an item on a spreadsheet that they bought after about 6 degrees of sale of debt.
@SeanBZA
7 ай бұрын
That was also sold to multiple others, each thinking they were the collector.
@annasdad8008
7 ай бұрын
Debt collection and credit rating companies are so sleazy and a regulatory crack down on these companies is absolutely necessary. We went round and round with them about small debts owned by someone with a similar name as mine but is no relation and I don’t know him (different middle name, different age, different race). The credit company even attached his address to my credit report (a place I have never been). The company even insisted I had to pay his debt to clean up the records (I didn’t). It took years to clean this up even with letters from the original companies stating that the debt was not mine.
@TryHardNewsletter
7 ай бұрын
Different name, different age, different SSN. Wow. Punitive damage should have been to liquidate the debt company. Invalidate all the debt they owned.
@VIII_Royalty_VIII
7 ай бұрын
They have done this to others. I personally know a woman who sued because they contacted her at work and she didnt owe the debt. She sued via some firm that specifically goes after collection agencies like PRN for crossing lines and commiting violations. She never went to court. They settled and she was awarded $3500.00. This anonymous woman happens to be very litigious and understands her rights pretty well. 😊
@johnhalley6731
5 ай бұрын
Had zombie debt pop up on my report a few years ago. Disputed it on grounds that the original delinquency date was longer than 5 years ago and it was removed within a week.
@johnpatrick1588
7 ай бұрын
Back in the housing crash a common technique to challenge foreclosures was to have the financial company prove they had the original loan documentation. Mortgages were being traded, bought, sold, mixed with others into financial instruments some loan docs went missing or messed up. People got keep the homes and I think for free.
@bryanschuler9097
7 ай бұрын
@@WhiteG60 the deed is not a magic token, possession of which is "ownership". Procedures vary, but most commonly both the deed and the mortgage securing the debt are recorded at the same time. Whether or not the debt is paid the mortgage remains a cloud on title scaring off a later buyer until it is released by a document titled "Release of Mortgage" evidencing extinguishment of the debt. Meanwhile the original grantee remains in possession and can go down to the courthouse and get a copy of the deed anytime they want, frame it or use it in a floral centerpiece on the dining room table.
@chubbysumo2230
7 ай бұрын
@@WhiteG60this depends heavily on the state. I get my car titles in minnesota, but they list a lienholder if there a loan against the vehicle. Same with a house deed.
@christopherkidwell9817
7 ай бұрын
@@chubbysumo2230That is only meant to keep people from 'skipping out on debt'. If the paperwork is not properly filed to sell the debt to someone else, then the debt is now invalid.
@clockworkleather
7 ай бұрын
The problem a lot of people run into to defend themselves in these debt collection issues is that to even file to appear at the trial about your debt is exorbitant in a lot of areas. Here in Oregon, there was a case filed against me, and it was 1100 bucks just to even get a say in court. Never mind hire any kind of representation. If someone is struggling to make payments, those court fees aren't going to offer any restitution.
@watchdogu.s.a.8973
7 ай бұрын
I've never heard of that... having to pay to defend yourself in a lawsuit. Just... wow.
@sparxva
7 ай бұрын
This is why I always keep the letters from banks stating that a debt has been paid off. You never know when someone will come knocking asking for the money you supposedly owe and fees for non-payment.
@fix0the0spade
7 ай бұрын
As a reminder, the sales of bad debt portfolios (and reclassifying them as assets) was one of the root causes of the 2008 recession. People were trading defaulted mortgages and claiming they had assets because they 'owned' the assets in the debts, right up until somebody asked where the money was. The re-sale of debt should be illegal, if the bank wants to hunt someone they can hire a collector directly.
@duanesamuelson2256
7 ай бұрын
Yes and no. A lot of companies give loans/mortgages that sell the debt to either specialists in that market or larger businesses or just to have better balances on their books. They are buying the account, not because it's in arrears but as an investment at x percent profit.
@Richard-or9rt
7 ай бұрын
Agreed. I don't see why companies owning the debt just hire collection agencies to retrieve the debt. The agencies get a percentage of the retrieved debt as payment. They would also be allowed to bargain for the final percentage paid. Seems like a better business model all around.
@youtubasoarus
7 ай бұрын
Yup, CDO's and CDS's should never have become a thing.
@_PatrickO
7 ай бұрын
I think all debt sales must give the debtor the right to buy the debt for the same amount as the collector or we reduce the debt to the amount actually paid. It makes no sense that we allow debt buyers to pay less for the debt and then collect the full amount.
@buggsy5
7 ай бұрын
Why should you owe less just because the debt holder changed? That makes no logical sense at all. @@_PatrickO
@j-town4408
7 ай бұрын
Portfolio Recovery is the absolute dregs of debt collection. Glad they lost. But also mad props to the pro se defendant here to set such an important precedence. I can't help but wonder if they also work in the debt collection industry.
@AgnesC1111
6 ай бұрын
Aren't you glad you don't have to do that for a living?
@Duncan_Campbell
7 ай бұрын
Steve, with her suing for PRA breaching the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act is there any provisions for lawyer fees? If she does have any, as that seems a large hurdle to jump if you can't recover fees for made up debts.
@aremoreequal
7 ай бұрын
This is an issue I've heard about for decades. Remember when people were being thrown out of their homes because banks claimed they were in default, but the banks didn't even own the mortgages on those homes? This is a common problem.
@Imbatmn57
4 ай бұрын
Its ridiculous that there was a trial in the first place, like the woman should have been immediately rewarded when the company couldn't find the necessary documentation.
@bonedeth925
7 ай бұрын
I always answer the phone like im a deaf Vietnamese guy
@bryanschuler9097
7 ай бұрын
Good. A chance to practice your cursing in Vietnamese. How often does that come up?
@werefrogofassyria6609
7 ай бұрын
The Werefrog do Japanese. You have to have the language to do it right.
@TheRealScooterGuy
7 ай бұрын
I have a cell phone that I use for work. Sometimes, I get calls on it that say _scam likely_ on the caller ID. If I have time and am not driving, I'll answer with a weird accent, "_'ellow?_ As long as it doesn't turn out to be a legit work call (so far it hasn't), I just keep repeating that word, like I can't hear them.
@kermitmoen443
7 ай бұрын
A while ago in FL, origional mortgage companies never notified people that they sold the debt. People called them and they couldn't even tell you who they sold it to. Fishy, i think they all got class action filed against them, and won.
@dennisyoung6122
6 ай бұрын
90% are default judgements... I wonder how many of them PROPERLY notified their targets.
@Teddystream.
7 ай бұрын
Another issue is when the borrower has a case against the lender related to the loan for which particulars are required and haven’t been produced
@Greybeardmedic
7 ай бұрын
They totally FORGET to discuss the reason why someone would PURCHASE unrecoverable debt, and GLOSS over the fact that these debt collectors will use UNSCRUPULOUS means and methods to collect this money. Many of these methods being unscrupulous and maybe even illegal. Its not wonder that a Bank or a large financial institution would want no part of these smaller companies since their behavior could lead them exposed to serious litigation. I applaud the woman who represented herself Pro-Se and forced them to PROVE their case.
@ChillyJack
7 ай бұрын
Immediately after watching this video my mother just got a call from a law firm claiming she owes for a bounced check from a bank she's never banked with from *_24 years ago_* We told him it was clearly fraudulent and he kept threatening that the next step would be court.
@brentrenouf7127
5 ай бұрын
Statue of limits on that one 😅
@ChillyJack
5 ай бұрын
@@brentrenouf7127 Yup, unless they get you to say that you wrote the check, that resets that statute of limitations. He kept fishing trying to get her to admit to writing it even after we repeatedly said she didn't.
@brentrenouf7127
5 ай бұрын
@@ChillyJack Wow and I wonder how many people fell for that one
@jffish5149
7 ай бұрын
None of them can prove it, being part of a 3rd party contract without consent is fraud.
@bigkahuna214
4 ай бұрын
All she had to do was say that it’s beyond the statue of limitation’s. They would’ve never taken her to court. I’ve had creditors hound me before. I said it was beyond statue limitations, they said that I need to send them a letter stating is which. I asked if this phone call is being recorded, they said yes and I said there’s your letter.
@ianbattles7290
2 ай бұрын
If you don't pay your bills for long enough, the debt collectors can't prove you actually owe the debt. "No, sorry, I paid that off YEARS ago; your records are wrong or this is a scam. Goodbye."
@llspragulus
7 ай бұрын
This happened to me. I had moved 2 years prior and wasn't even in the state where they filed the lawsuit. I had no clue about it but, they sure found my work to have that judgement pulled from my check. I had no recourse as I didn't show up because I didn't know about it. I HAD NEVER HAD AN ACCOUNT WHERE THE DEBT WAS FROM! Sometimes I just want to give the US a big middle finger and a f*ck you. We truly have one of the worst judicial systems in the world.
@valarianne2284
7 ай бұрын
I'm surprised there was no way to vacate that as you were never notified about court. You're right - it is completely effed up when someone can take you to court without your knowledge.
@FnixGhod1
7 ай бұрын
So many cases of appeals court saying the lower court didn't even know the law. How can there be so many stupid judges? Did they not pass the bar?
@prs44
7 ай бұрын
no, they didnt pass the bar, they went straight in and ordered a lot of drinks before they went to court. when they arrived on the bench, their blood alcohol content was somewhere between dean martin and a kennedy.
@josephconner3742
5 ай бұрын
I was notified by a debt collector, so I hired an attorney who informed me that , the initial entity who sold your debt( if it's legitimate) still has the documentation of said debt. The only proof the collection agency has is the amount of the debt. So when you go to Court, you're more than likely gonna win because they have no proof or witnesses to back up their claims. Basically if you do owe anything , it's to the entity who initially sold the debt, not to those who purchased it!
@OG_BeeRad
4 ай бұрын
I use to be a debt collection attorney. They don't keep records past 2 years usually. To defend a case it's easy. Counter with a fdcpa violation because that scares them. Attack on the basis of them lacking standing by not have any documents that particularly id that your account was bought, proof of the original note that the bwr signed and statement records starting from the first one to prove the amount. They usually don't have any of this. Lastly, any witness they fly in are professional witnesses that has never done anything but be a professional witness. Just cross by asking their job title and what are their duties and end it by asking, so you don't know anything more then anyone reading the small sample of statements?
@BREEZEMAYES
7 ай бұрын
I received a new phone number 4 years ago. I get 8-12 phone calls a day for someone I have never met. Telling people I have never met the person does nothing. I live in a different city. I have been called a liar, threatened. I just laugh now, tell them they have wrong number, block & report as scam fraud calls.
@robertlitwack6282
7 ай бұрын
NJ foreclosures stood still for big lenders for years on this issue but also lack of the ability to produce the underlying documents (Note and Mortgage.) Everyone had begun treating all of this as a clerical function and not a legal one.
@DickWalz
3 ай бұрын
“Hello, this is a recorded call” “you have the wrong number, never call here again!” they wont call back.
@ms200036
Ай бұрын
What's wrong with our lower court judges? They didn't need a law degree to figure this out but got it wrong!
@Techcensorshipbot
6 ай бұрын
I had this happen to me before. The debt amounts were 1-3K. Not enough to probably afford a lawyer and they called everyone to court. People came up and either setup a payment plan or asked for time to get an attorney. I did the attorney route and they dropped the case.
@corssecurity
7 ай бұрын
Reminds me of the subprime mortgage fiasco. Homeowners who paid off thier mortgage found out the original lender sold thier mortgage. Resold several times. The current lender didn't have titles.
@K7ZHK
6 ай бұрын
I was in and out of hospitals constantly between the age of 17 and 24. I also had to have multiple major surgeries. When I was finally stable in college I noticed multiple medical debts listed on my credit report causing it to be very low. Long story short I used a debt verification/challenge service (Lexington Law) to demand proof they owned the debt. All but one or two couldn’t prove it and it was taken off my report. One or two places were well documented and known for being the worst of the worst in the debt collection world. There were a few that had full documentation and proof that I paid. Everyone else either had to remove the claim on my report or Inlet the statute of limitations take it off. It took a while as some of them tried fighting it but it was well worth it. Know your rights. Especially regarding medical debt and recent executive actions and jurisprudence. Don’t let these kinds of places rewrite the law from thin air to scare you into paying them.
@michaelherbert7389
5 ай бұрын
Once a debt has been sold to a debt collector it has effectively been paid off...... We should be thanking the debt collectors. I am frim the UK.
@alexrogall4543
7 ай бұрын
Ive got a deep voice so when i get phonecalls i ask "should i get my mommy then stsy on the line breathiing😊
@antonrr90
7 ай бұрын
I've Been Demanding Proof Of Signature/Digital Signature From A Supposed Debt From 2007, And After 10 Years, I Still Have Not Received That Information, And Neither Has The Court They Used To Try To Put A Lien Against My Assets. Portfolio Recovery Has Bought And Sold This Debt 3 Times In 10 Years, And I Still Have Not Received Proof Of Debt Ownership, And Neither Has The Court.
@thinkaboutthis572
7 ай бұрын
20 years later My conspiracy theory Is coming to light 😂😂😂
@bluescoins1199
7 ай бұрын
Since she won her case, could she also go after them for ruining her credit, one of the first thing dept collector do is hit your credit with it
@jwarmstrong
3 ай бұрын
A letter sent to the credit bureau claiming money owed from 11 years ago - filed an appeal & never heard from them so their claim was withdrawn -
@nickabel8279
6 ай бұрын
Should be this way. If you buy debt it is your debt now. That you can't collect on. Thanks for making a payment on someone's account
@randallsmerna384
7 ай бұрын
I would think that because the law demands that all assignments MUST BE ATTACHED AT THE TIME OF THE OWNERSHIP TRANSFER, but they weren't - that in itself is a clear breach making everything past this point fruit of the poison tree.
@risingwind8943
4 ай бұрын
How this got through lower court is insane. If things like this can get through lower court without the "debt owner" proving they own they debt, then anyone can generate some paperwork indicating they own a debt and win without enough proof. This is crazy and needs to be cracked down on.
@godisgood789
3 ай бұрын
I Have debt collector that keeps on harassing me. He keeps threatening me with a judgment. I am still waiting for the summons! NO CIGAR!
@4byproductions
3 ай бұрын
I used to work for a debt collector company, and if they don’t receive the necessary documents (which happens often) they don’t even bother responding to a verification of debt request and let it go. They can still pursue you for the debt, but they can’t threaten action against you if the debt isn’t verified and it’s removed off your report
@Undecided0
7 ай бұрын
I’m going through a case now with a debt collection agency. It’s been adjourned twice, because they didn’t send me papers from a discovery demand. I still have no idea where the debt is from. My lawyer told me that the case will more than likely be dismissed.
@CarlAyers-x8h
5 ай бұрын
I was threatened once like that.I told them to sue the one that sold them the contract.. for I didn't owe them squat. Never heard another word.
@marbanak
4 ай бұрын
It is troubling to think the debt buyers require power-compliance with their demands, while they can be sloppy and careless.
@billshull9468
7 ай бұрын
This happened with my Wife and Mi*land Credit. They couldn't provide where the debt came from.
@nathanspreitzer6738
7 ай бұрын
In the UK they can come into your house or business and take your stuff and sell it for a debt, as long as they have a judgement against you, your presence isn’t even required at the house either
@buggsy5
7 ай бұрын
There are a lot of things allowed in the UK when police are involved that are not allowed in the USA.
@sarahrichard8441
7 ай бұрын
I’ve dealt with them, they are aggressive and tried to get me to pay twice for something I already paid! They are horrible!
@billb.5887
Ай бұрын
After watching your video on "Debt Collector Loses When it Can't PROVE it Owns the Debt" I just had to comment on it. Somewhere back in the early 2000's got married and bought a house in the same two week period of time. Never doing that again ! ! ! Well a couple of years later, received a letter stating the mortgage was sold to another mortgage company common practice then. Another year or so later, received yet another letter stating the mortgage was sold to another company. Now I was getting curious as to who we had to make the mortgage to. In time there was no answer as to who the mortgage payment was to be sent to, so the waiting game began. A letter showed up and I thought this was the answer I was waiting for. The letter was followed by a phone call after I sent a question back to the mortgage company as the mortgage company wanted payment in full (mortgage was only three years old at the time) The letter I sent to the mortgage company had only one question. "Do you have the original documents that was signed by my wife and me. The signatures were signed in BLUE INK (which I do ALWAYS) depicting an original signature on an original document as a copy would be all the same color ink, BLACK. That was the last time I ever heard from that mortgage company. There was no further information about any mortgage or payments period. The original mortgage company went out of business shortly after the signing the original documents as they had a very serious legal problem with the state of Florida and the mortgage governing board. Based on my experience, if the person has documentation for a monetary loan and is seeking restitution and does not have the original loan documentation there could be a major problem if you are living in Florida ! !
@Richardrefund
7 ай бұрын
Can a business lawfully purchase an obligation? Not without an obligator’s signature on a contract with the company. Otherwise they lack standing. Keep rolling strong Steve!
@brianyaeger8209
3 ай бұрын
What’s hilarious about all this is that PRA must have spent WAY more fighting this than the $8500 they where trying to collect
@LisaRent
2 ай бұрын
My husband shares a name with a local guy, around the same age, who doesn’t pay his debts. I can’t tell you how many debt collectors came after my husband AND ME for that deadbeat’s debts. It was frustrating and tiresome. Those sharks can be very unpleasant.
@randycrager4074
4 ай бұрын
I just filled out a "Notice of Conditional Acceptance" for some debt that was incurred, while my account was hacked. The Collections Agency sent me a stack of papers asking me to fill them all out and send them back and I told them I'd send them something better. I also told them that in some states if they try to come after me after I Notarized it with my demands and they didn't adhere to my demands that I could collect up to 10 times the amount they are claiming I owe. Where is the meeting of the minds, the wet signature from both parties and the proof showing they own the contract? NOT!
@oldfordman68
7 ай бұрын
Good for her for pursuing this. If I was her I would move to have the original judge removed from office because he ruled against what the law states
@raynethackery1
Ай бұрын
All for $8000. What a waste of time for the collection agency.
@CandycaneBeyond
6 ай бұрын
I know someone who had this happen. The company has identifying #'s instead of names. No original info on the debt. So they couldn't prove it was his debt.
@JWilliamJordan
2 ай бұрын
I have heard of mortgages being cancelled after being transferred because the current owner who was transferred the mortgage could not produce the original promissory note when challenged in court that they own the debt.
@larrywhitesell4139
7 ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing this Steve. And congrats to the pro se. What she did and the record she created is remarkable.
@edcross447
6 ай бұрын
So they think if banks start to lose less money on their loans they'll pass that on to lower costs for their customers. Oh my sweet summer child. That will absolutely be represented as a profit gain on some managers self justification power point.
@Reptitude
6 ай бұрын
I had a debt collector call me about a hospital bill. But guess what I was unemployed and I applied for State assistance. I paid $50, the State paid the $1,800 balance. When the debt collector called I laughed and told them the hospital ripped them off selling them my fake outstanding debt. They asked for me to send them a copy, I said sure for $100 send me a check I will send once it clears, or they can go through the trouble of getting it from the State. They did not give me the $100, but I never heard from anyone again on that issue.
@3sierra15
7 ай бұрын
Debt collection is full of shoddy, sleazy business practices by collectors, and by the banks that make and sell the original loans.
@jasonbourne1596
7 ай бұрын
I had a debt collector tell me he bought my dept once. I told him well good, enjoy your purchase. I told him I wasn't paying it out of principle because I was never even sent a bill. I also offered to pay a percentage of the alleged owe that was more in line with what I actually did owe, but they wasn't having none of that pay one time and release the debt. No they wanted to keep stacking dept onto me and I'm not having any of that so they got nothing in the end out of principle. I don't think they should be able to transfer debt to a collection agency we had no agreement with.
@jonwilson3821
7 ай бұрын
I EFFING HATE DEBT COLLECTORS. they did this to me and the judge was like well too bad you need to pay it and i got a garnishment, its BS
@billxam2674
7 ай бұрын
Similar what happened to me. In my case, they called and visited my family, wife's family, my employer. Everyone except me. Bought a new car, dealer says "you have to have gap insurance...in case the car gets totaled." 2 years later, car totaled due to fire. Insurance totaled the car, I signed the car to them. Loan company insisted I pay the loan balance. No matter how many times I told them I no longer own the car, go to the gap insurance company. Turns out the stealership never got the gap insurance. 6 months later the stealership goes out of business. The loan company also was fined out of business.
@Betharoot
6 ай бұрын
After my father died, my mother kept getting calls from a debt collector about money he supposedly owed to a phone carrier. This person was ruthless. My father had never done business with the company but happened to have the same name as someone who had. I finally got on the phone with this collector and demanded proof. All this person would say was that the name matched their records as someone who owed a debt. I told them that wasn't good enough and if they persisted, I would get a lawyer and the Attorney General of my state involved. About a year later there was a scathing article in the paper about this same company and that they would harass families with recent deaths that matched names they had on their lists hoping that in the chaos of closing an estate, families would just pay. Disgusting.
@ahfimiwonawun
5 ай бұрын
An old associate of mine said she went to court on account of a debt collector and the whole thing basically fell apart due to her demanding to know what they paid for debt. Her argument, if I’m remembering correctly, was that all she would pay them is what they paid for the debt. They didn’t want it made public how much they actually pay for debt, so case was over at that point.
@enterchannelname4542
5 ай бұрын
Soon after my son was born last year I started receiving calls from a debt collector that identified themselves as the hospital. I believed that I had paid all of my bills, but assumed that I had missed something. I called the hospital, and they said that I didn't owe them anything. The hospital said that they continually have issues with the debt collector they work with attempting to collect imaginary debts, and identifying themselves as the hospital.
@thesurvivalist.
5 ай бұрын
Sad these companies are sloppy. When they took me to court, the judge throw it out because they had never been in contact with me before that day in court! I was not there 2 minutes. Some of these debts, have been sold 10 to 20 times! Where are those documents?
@willscheck8072
7 ай бұрын
with the amount of identity theft how do they know it's legal .
@joesonnefeld9296
6 ай бұрын
Check with your state there are statue of limitations on how long after the debt they can sue
@aprilmoore2917
7 ай бұрын
I had a problem with portfolio. They refused to prove the debt to me as well, and the original debt holder had to admit that it had been written off, BOTH entries removed from my credit report.
@ericharrison6418
7 ай бұрын
Ironically a lot of banks can’t prove they own mortgage debt. They have been duplicating mortgage notes for decades and leveraging them but it’s much more difficult to fight them so they rely on litigation to deter any exercise of financial liability.
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