Order the Voltlog T10 LED bulbs from my Tindie store here voltlog.com/y/q1g3s
@pwtprojects5610
Жыл бұрын
Well designed simplicity will last over time.
@ristomatti
4 жыл бұрын
Great attention to detail and well thought out project!
@voltlog
4 жыл бұрын
Thank you! 😬
@SanthoshRamaraj
4 жыл бұрын
Interesting component of the two terminal CC driver. Great design.
@AttilaAsztalos
4 жыл бұрын
There are even LEDs that have them already built in. Which means one of those LEDs can just be added to a string of "normal" LEDs and the whole string gets CC regulated...
@voltlog
4 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@CDN_Torsten
4 жыл бұрын
Good design - I've used similar linear drivers to build custom lighting for my lab benches. No flicker, no electrical emissions, and great colour rendering. To help with the thermal performance of your design, it may be helpful to add large vias (as you had mentioned), or perhaps one could add edge slots which are plated to increase the surface area. Copper pins to act as fins may also be an option, but this may be getting a bit excessive for such a design.
@voltlog
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the tips!
@daijoubu4529
Жыл бұрын
I've been searching for this video all over, I swear that I though it was a DIY or Build serie from GreatScott haha
@samvoelkel2046
4 жыл бұрын
Your attention to detail is impressive. While the white board color will reflect more light, it is well known that the color black will transfer heat more efficiently. It would be interesting to do the temperature tests with some black colored boards to see if the difference is measurable.
@superdau
4 жыл бұрын
Black is better a emitting heat radiation, but radiative cooling will not really matter that much at the temperatures that the LEDs should run at. (btw. some things that look white can be "black" in IR, or the other way round). Cooling by convection and conduction is much more important here.
@voltlog
4 жыл бұрын
You are right, black soldermask would increase radiant heat and I would probably let go of the white soldermask if the application required more cooling. Thanks!
@ufohunter3688
4 жыл бұрын
I've been using current mirrors made with 2x NPN and 2x resistors. I like this AL5809 and will buy some next time I place an order on Digi-key. I will still have to use the discrete method for
@voltlog
4 жыл бұрын
Yup, easily my favorite LED driver.
@ourshopeewarranty9595
4 жыл бұрын
Very good design..
@dreamcat4
4 жыл бұрын
Its very good work Voltlog, well done. I just have 2 questions while watching. 1) so what happens if you put in the wrong way around (breversed polarity). Does the driver block the current and protect the leds from being damaged? 2) Then about the heat dissipation. What I wonder is if there can be some tiny little copper heatsink (I have seen them online!). They are really small, tiny in fact. maybe 5mm x 5mm. Well if it is made frome pure copper then why cant we just solder it directly onto an exposed ground plane of the PCB? I think it could fit perhaps 1 on each side. Without taking up too much space. Wouldn't that work? If the heat is conducting through the pcb trace. Perhaps it is too much over engineered and this application does not need to go so far. But perhaps it could be useful for other projects?
@voltlog
4 жыл бұрын
Each LED takes a max of 5V reverse voltage, I'm not sure what the driver can take in reverse no mention in the datasheet but they are certainly fine for short periods of time. A heatsink would definitely be a solution if we had more power to dissipate but in some cases it might make more sense economically to just go to an aluminium substrate without having to solder thin copper shims on the PCB.
@nunogarcia9446
4 жыл бұрын
Hi Florin, great video. I have been considering designing automotive LED bulbs for a while now, for pretty much the same reasons that you have talked about: lamps that are too powerful for their heat dissipation capabilities, low quality LEDs, and overall low reliability. Other factors I have considered are the polarity of the lamps (I recall a Mk2 Clio I worked on where the dome lights were forward biased if you opened the door, but would be reverse biased if you turned them on at the switch - not a problem for incandescent lamps, but a problem for cheap polarized LED ones) and weatherproofing (license plate lights, for example, fail even more often due to humidity, etc.. I've considered waterproofing them with AG TERMOPASTY PVB Varnish 16.). One other culprit to early death of LED lights in automotive applications seems to be high voltage transients. One application note I found particularly interesting is the AN9312.5 (July 1999) by Harris/LittleFuse. I wonder how the bulbs you designed will fare in your car. Best regards, Nuno
@voltlog
4 жыл бұрын
Time will tell how reliable these will be but if I were to guess, any higher voltage pulses present on the car 12V rail should be turned into heat by these drivers which are rated for up to 60V. Even if the output current has some variations I'm still driving the LEDs way lower then what they can take maximum.
@daijoubu4529
Жыл бұрын
You can use some Schottky diodes but you lose some efficiency
@OrbiterElectronics
4 жыл бұрын
Nice job Florin. Not even sure you could better the design with regards to heat really, especially as the lights are within a confined housing. Only thing is maybe make the PCBs surface area slightly larger, if that's even possible in the available space. I had a similar issue with some G9 kitchen LED downlighters. I had about four different types before finding some that would run cool enough. Mine were getting so hot the solder was melting on the PCBs and the 0602 components were falling off. Cheers John
@voltlog
4 жыл бұрын
Unfortunately that's such a common issue with these commercial LED bulbs, they run too hot and that is their main cause of failure. Time will tell if my design will last longer but given the much lower temperature it should. Thank you!
@daijoubu4529
Жыл бұрын
If you use high powered LED at higher current, their efficiency drops, so the workaround is to put a whole bunch of them and run at low current for increased efficiency
@jonathanm9436
3 жыл бұрын
Wow - beautifully resolved design. A simple circuit, but very instructive in the things to consider and the effects of your decisions. Your focus on lower CTemp and higher CRI is VERY appreciated. You ask for suggestions for dissipating temp further - but at 72C does it matter, and what would be your goal temp? Subscribed!! And thank you for generously sharing your design files.
@voltlog
3 жыл бұрын
I didn't have a precise goal for temperature but I was hoping for as low as it can possibly get without making the PCB too expensive and I believe I achieved that goal. Sure, you are right, 72C is enough and it doesn't need to go any lower than that for good reliability. It probably wouldn't even reach that 90% of the time as the bulb usually only stays on for a minute tops.
@lasersbee
4 жыл бұрын
I'm not a fan of Polarized Lights in a vehicle... I'd add a Bridge Rectifier to the input making the Lights Non-Polarized. Still a great idea...
@christophertstone
4 жыл бұрын
The rectifier would also spread some of the heat load, though definitely limit him to 2 LEDs
@tseckwr3783
4 жыл бұрын
What is the issue you are addressing by using a "non polarized" light vs an LED?
@JanCiger
4 жыл бұрын
@@tseckwr3783 That the bulb wouldn't work if inserted in the socket the wrong way around. Normal bulb doesn't have that problem. No idea how significant issue that is for him, though.
@zaprodk
4 жыл бұрын
@@JanCiger Just stick it in. If it doesn't light up, turn it around. Takes 1 extra second.
@tseckwr3783
4 жыл бұрын
@@JanCiger roger...
@TheDefpom
4 жыл бұрын
Maybe consider going multilayer to maybe 6 layers so there is copper inside the board too. Castellated edges might also help a lot to increase surface area
@voltlog
4 жыл бұрын
Economically and performance wise it might make more sense to go to aluminium substrate instead of 6 layers but I might try castellated edges in a future revision. Thanks!
@reptar48
6 ай бұрын
Nice project! In your design there is a capacitor shown. Can you explain what it's purpose is? Thanks!
3 жыл бұрын
Those cree leds do come in different forwald voltage levels. I think you could use some which are around 6V to lover the dissipation in the driver.
@daijoubu4529
Жыл бұрын
But 2 of those will have 12Vf and the driver needs 2.5V headroom, so the max would be 3 in series
@Made2hack
4 жыл бұрын
Would using AL core PCBs help? And have both leds on the same side?
@voltlog
4 жыл бұрын
It would help and it would probably be the next step if I needed more cooling but the cost is an issue in small qty. I wouldn't put both leds on the same side because that would give out uneven lighting and shades.
@DustinWatts
4 жыл бұрын
Maybe I missed it in the video; but was is the total cost per bulb? I'm still wanting to upgrade my overhead lighting on my bench. I made a PWM driver to be able to adjust the balance between warm white and bright white... but that was a bad idea! I might be able to use this kind of solution...
@voltlog
4 жыл бұрын
The cost per bulb ends up being $4.9 delivered to my door. Tut that's with the complete turn-key assembly service which is like 50% of this cost. You can get these much cheaper by manufacturing them in the thousands or by doing it yourself at home. These drivers can also be PWMed by adding in a transistor.
@borayurt66
4 жыл бұрын
Nice project. I also tried Chinese automotive led bulbs and they failed in short time as it happened to you. You mention you had the pcb's done with a thicker copper layer, but I also see that the boards are thicker than usual 1.6mm. What is the board thickness and how much do they cost per bulb (fully assembled) to someone who is not sponsored by the pcb manufacturer?
@nemisis010
4 жыл бұрын
I had the exact same problem when I ordered some for my car. The term Aliexpress sellers like to use for the type of white your after is "Natural white"., took me awhile to figure that out but I was lucky getting some good quality C5W bulbs.
@voltlog
4 жыл бұрын
I think the ones I ended up using from Aliexpress were marked as "natural white", they were less blue but not as nice as these 4000K Cree LEDs with CRI of >90 that I ended up using in the project. You can definitively tell the difference and my eyes appreciate it.
@nemisis010
4 жыл бұрын
@@voltlog Yes very true, I ended up at the same conclusion.
@daijoubu4529
Жыл бұрын
ok so it just occured to me how you can make it more efficient, if you go with 3 LED in series (with lower current, eg 40mA), efficiency goes from ~40% to 60% and if you can make it 4 in series, it can reach 80%. But you'll have to use the LED chips with a lower 2.7Vf and use a low dropout (1.2V?) driver, otherwise to aid in dissipating the heat, wouldnt it to make sense to add another resistor in series (half the calulated value for 60mA output)?
@Corgitronics
4 жыл бұрын
Nice project! Given that you only need about 60mA, there might be a tiny switchmode controller unit, rather than having to design it from scratch?
@voltlog
4 жыл бұрын
It's not really a problem designing a small constant current Dc-dc, there are plenty of controllers capable of doing that in a small enough package but you still need a couple of capacitors, the inductor and at least one resistor. Once again it's doable but if the design works fine with just a linear reg there is no point in complicating stuff in my opinion.
@hoggif
4 жыл бұрын
I think there is really not much you can do for dissipation and it is cool enough. A third led would radiate some as light but it gets brighter. Good job. To get cooler you would need switching supply that is too complicated.
@daijoubu4529
Жыл бұрын
@@hoggif The chinese most commonly uses Powtech LED drivers ICs: PT4115 and PT4211 are pretty common, but you'll need an inductor, diode, cap and a resistor however
@hoggif
Жыл бұрын
@@daijoubu4529 Of course, you can always add regulating circuit or some kind of switching power regulator. But that is another story when you are more like re-designing it from different perspective. Fitting all that in a T10 bulb can be an issue too.
@daijoubu4529
Жыл бұрын
@@hoggif I have a few of those commercially available chinese bulbs, they work but are driving the chips way too high at 180mA, replacing the sense resistor to bring it down to 60mA makes heat more manageable
@15743_Hertz
4 жыл бұрын
How would you dim the light string? Would you use an external PWM circuit? I ask due to the possibility that they might be too bright at night time.
@voltlog
4 жыл бұрын
You choose the drive current wisely so that the brightness is just perfect. In my case, I was lucky, 60mA makes for perfect light output in this setup.
@uksuperrascal
4 жыл бұрын
The Aliexpress LED's shown had 4 diodes so would work from an AC PSU - Will your LED lamps work from an AC PSU? Also it did not matter what polarity with the Aliexpress LED's.
@voltlog
4 жыл бұрын
T10 bulbs are used in the car system on DC voltage.
@uksuperrascal
4 жыл бұрын
@@voltlog T10 not just used in cars.T10 also used in 230v AC Desk Lamps and Reading Lamps Via 230V to 12V Transformer No DC involved
@voltlog
4 жыл бұрын
uksuperrascal I have never heard of those and don't plan on ever using something like that. Just DC for me.
@uksuperrascal
4 жыл бұрын
@@voltlog The Aliexpress LED's do not last long in the AC desktop Lamps either, although advertised as working with both AC & DC, that is why i asked if yours work with AC and DC - I have been trying with 5730 SMD's and dropper resistor - Will now try with the CC driver. after the FW rectifier.
@bambumbambu
3 жыл бұрын
you didn't compare the brightness and power consumtion
@jimquinn
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks! I see 21 in a panel. What was your cost for the panel? Would you be willing to sell panels?
@voltlog
4 жыл бұрын
The cost per bulb ends up being $4.9 delivered to my door. Tut that's with the complete turn-key assembly service which is like 50% of this cost. You can get these much cheaper by manufacturing them in the thousands or by doing it yourself at home.
@executive
4 жыл бұрын
how do you make a regulator with only 2 pins? It has no ground where to shunt current.
@AttilaAsztalos
4 жыл бұрын
Why would it need to "shunt" anything anywhere? It just keeps increasing its "resistance" until it sees no more than the right amount of current passing through itself...
@superdau
4 жыл бұрын
Check out constant current drivers with LM317 (or 78xx) for examples. The way they are built, they are "2 pin" constant current regulators as well.
@executive
4 жыл бұрын
@@superdau Gotcha. So the sense resistor is built-in. Thank you.
@GeorgeGraves
4 жыл бұрын
Would have been interesting to use an aluminium PCB.
@voltlog
4 жыл бұрын
I would be curious too to see the results with an aluminium PCB but realistically speaking that is overkill for this application.
@bullguy112
4 жыл бұрын
LED is pronunced as EL EE DEE not leads
@electronic7979
4 жыл бұрын
👍👍👍
@snowballs159
4 жыл бұрын
do they have canbus
@AttilaAsztalos
4 жыл бұрын
You do realize that "canbus" in a car LED lightbulb just means "has an extra resistor doing nothing but wasting extra power and getting the whole bulb extra hot, just so it draws the same current as a normal bulb, so the car's control unit doesn't think it isn't drawing enough therefore it must be burned out", yes?
@voltlog
4 жыл бұрын
no magic "canbus" on these bulbs as for my VW the interior lights are not monitored.
@sorin.n
4 жыл бұрын
Would you consider selling those?
@voltlog
4 жыл бұрын
Nope, it wouldn't be profitable unless I would be selling thousands.
@sorin.n
4 жыл бұрын
That would depend on the price. There are persons who would pay a higher price for a quality product.
@crispusb
4 жыл бұрын
Are you selling these (ro)? :D
@voltlog
4 жыл бұрын
Not looking to sell these
@dartfrogdk
4 жыл бұрын
PCBWAY is have very very very very bad client support!
@t1d100
2 жыл бұрын
Nice project.
@Edmorbus
4 жыл бұрын
Great thanks for sharing
@voltlog
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching!
@memtech3253
2 жыл бұрын
How much of a difference does 2 oz copper make verses 1 oz copper thermally? I'm looking to build a few of these and noticed that 2 oz copper PCBs cost significantly more than 1 oz copper PCBs
@summit111572
4 жыл бұрын
Dude start selling these, I'd buy, great video
@voltlog
4 жыл бұрын
Glad you liked them but it doesn't make sense economically to start selling these. I would need to manufacture and sell thousands of these to make it worth my time and I don't think I can sell that many.
@robbieaussievic
4 жыл бұрын
@@voltlog ..... Not so sure, the video will sell it. Consumers pay for quality.
@Ohm7111
4 жыл бұрын
I bought few T10 LED bulbs from aliexpress and local eshop as position lights for my car. Every bulb failed quickly. Usualy it started flashing, which looks horrible on car. I was tired of buying and trying new bulbs, so I bought Philips T10 LED bulbs. They are expensive, about $20 for pair, but they are working flawlesly for 5 years.
@voltlog
4 жыл бұрын
I was contemplating buying Osram or Philips T10 LED bulbs and while they would have probably solved the reliability issue, I was thinking they would still not be the right color temperature.
@Ohm7111
4 жыл бұрын
@@voltlog I also bought Osram. One bulb was dead out of the box, so I retuned them and bought second set of Philips bulbs. I have 6000K version, but there is also 4000K and 8000K version.
@certified-forklifter
4 жыл бұрын
cool
@jaro6985
4 жыл бұрын
Nice clean design. The "good" bulbs I bought were using PT4205 buck drivers, although one has burned out after about a year.. It seems the IC was too hot or defective, the LEDs themselves are OK. They are in the headlight area though so need to be high power (~5W).
@sham1234567891
4 жыл бұрын
Great stuff! I suggest eliminating the copper heat dissipation surface and use reasonably thick aluminium in between the LEDs with heat transfer paste. Good luck!
@roychang1460
4 жыл бұрын
Nice project. There is enough voltage to add one more LED to the bulb and lower the current. Or just use switching regulator with only one LED for the cost.
@ysyrota
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks! It was very informative video. What LED product class did you choose?
@SuperBoobaloo
4 жыл бұрын
Dude - You should sell those things! The market must be crying out for quality interior lamps. I would be your first customer!
@voltlog
4 жыл бұрын
Glad you liked them but it doesn't make sense economically to start selling these. I would need to manufacture and sell thousands of these to make it worth my time and I don't think I can sell that many.
@johnnodge4327
4 жыл бұрын
Nice attention to detail. You could use black solder mask, to increase radiant heat from board. Otherwise it looks like a sound design, from which other manufacturers could learn a thing or two. ;)
@voltlog
4 жыл бұрын
You are right, black soldermask would increase radiant heat and I would probably let go of the white soldermask if the application required more cooling. Thanks!
@superdau
4 жыл бұрын
I don't know if that's still a thing in cars, but are you worried about short voltage spikes (way higher than the about 14V)? A car's 12V system isn't the "cleanest" and LEDs are more susceptible to that.
@voltlog
4 жыл бұрын
All the datasheet is telling us is that the driver has "High Power Supply Rejection Ratio" and it's rated for up to 60V operation. That's not a lot of info but I think it's not a big issue. Any higher voltage spike will just be turned into heat by the driver but It would be interesting to see if there is any variation in the drive current. Even if there is any variation it would be for a short period (the duration of the pulse) and so it wouldn't pose any risk for the LEDs which are rated for higher currents than what I use.
@greggascoigne941
4 жыл бұрын
Nice simple design, I’m wondering about designing the same but in a S8 3156 wedge base format for walkway lighting. Then dipping the led and any SMD’s in silicone to make them waterproof.
@voltlog
4 жыл бұрын
You would probably need some kind of plastic wedge base for that design.
Пікірлер: 114